Wellington's "killer highway"

[Hitcher]

Most Wellingtonians will know that the "killer highway" (SH1 from Pukerua Bay to Paekakariki) struck again at the weekend. If you've been following the news you will also have noted that the speed limit on this stretch has now been officially reduced to 80kmh. You may have also noted suggestions to put a braided wire median barrier along this stretch of highway (similar to the Haywards Hill road).

Rather than get my hobby horse out of the gargre at this time, I was wondering what you dudes though of all this?

The poll is only attached as a rough guide and conversation starter (you can tick more than one box, by the way).

[James Deuce]

Most Wellingtonians will know that the "killer highway" (SH1 from Pukerua Bay to Paekakariki) struck again at the weekend. If you've been following the news you will also have noted that the speed limit on this stretch has now been officially reduced to 80kmh. You may have also noted suggestions to put a braided wire median barrier along this stretch of highway (similar to the Haywards Hill road).

Rather than get my hobby horse out of the gargre at this time, I was wondering what you dudes though of all this?

The poll is only attached as a rough guide and conversation starter.

Cheese cutter is the Govt's attempt to reduce the motorcycling population.

We have a responsibility to avoid crashing into it. Rather than start a protest movement we should always ride in convoy when approaching a stretch of road with cheese cutters in place, block the lane, and travel at 20km/hr whilst traversing that particular piece of road.

If "independent studies" are ever quoted claiming that cheese cutters are no more likely to injure motorcyclists than armco or concrete barriers, I would be happy to construct a dummy and hurl it from a vehicle at 80km/hr into the cheese cutter and film the results.

[jrandom]

I'm not familiar with the bit of road in question, but I voted anyway, for proper median barriers and warning signs. ("Warning - stupid driving may kill you", perhaps?)

Those cheesecutter barriers are a motorcyclist's death waiting to happen.

Also, it's pretty poor if we can't build a main route, SH1 in this case, to be safe at 100kph. If it really *isn't* driveable at that speed (which I doubt) then a new road should be built. Funded by reductions in welfare payments. :innocent:

[vifferman]

Also, it's pretty poor if we can't build a main route, SH1 in this case, to be safe at 100kph. If it really *isn't* driveable at that speed (which I doubt) then a new road should be built. Funded by reductions in welfare payments.
NO!! Funded by the other two-thirds of the road tax that the Gummint takes and doesn't spend on roads. Why do you think the Gubmint lets the oil barons do whatever the hell they like with fuel prices? "Free market economy" my arse - it's because 46% of petrol is tax (with the GST on top), and every time it goes up, it's a windfall for the Consolidated Fund. If the Gumbint were seriously worried about the efrect rising fuel prices are having on inflation and the economy, they could cut back the tax a few cents (like remove the "special levy" for fixing D'Auckland's roading problem.
If they were serious about fixing the roads, they'd spend more than a third of the road tax take on roading.:argh:
[rant mode off]

That's better. :calm:

:blink:

[Blakamin]

wheres the one that says "stop people doing 20k below the speed limit" on that piece of road?

speed limiting that stretch is stupid, as most people do 80 anyway as they are ignorant of the road signs.

public transport wont help as 90% of the accidents aren't even locals.

Building a road that will get you out of the city when it rains, (after all the slips etc) is really the only option.

i spose the only REAL option tho is this >>> :brick:

[riffer]

They won't care about the effect of wire rope barriers on motorcyclists.

Let's face it, there's three things they have to take into account when considering these barriers:

1. How many motorcyclists have lost their lives through crossing the centre line on this road?

2. How many motorcyclist deaths per year can be attributed to wire rope?

3. How many potential fatal head ons can be saved using wire rope?

To answer 1 and 2. Probably not a lot. Thus using statistics one can assume that motorcyclists are a pretty careful lot who are better at keeping in their lane that some cage drivers.

To answer 3. Possibly 5 deaths every 2 years.

So they would assume that the motorcyclists are a secondary consideration as:

a) They tend to stay away from the wire rope
b) Wire rope will save lives
c) It is the cheapest option
d) and therefore will look like they are actually doing something.

Wire rope gives me the shits. So I stay well clear of it and ride safely when its around. Does that mean it works? Quite probably yes. Doesn't mean I like it though...

[boris]

I live in Waikanae, this road is the reason i go to p/north if i need anything,over summer I do use piecoc hill. Its not that that its dangerous i just hate getting stuck behind cars doing 70-80kph and having to dick head behind me sitting a bit to close for my comfit..

[Mongoose]

They won't care about the effect of wire rope barriers on motorcyclists.To answer 3. Possibly 5 deaths every 2 years.

So they would assume that the motorcyclists are a secondary consideration as:

a) They tend to stay away from the wire rope
b) Wire rope will save lives
c) It is the cheapest option
d) and therefore will look like they are actually doing something.

Wire rope gives me the shits. So I stay well clear of it and ride safely when its around. Does that mean it works? Quite probably yes. Doesn't mean I like it though...

Well said, the main factor is of course costs. Motorcyclists are seen as a minority, so the majority, ie vehicle drivers, win out.
That road itself is quite driveable, its the Kiwi tendancey to not stay on the left hand side that does the damage.
My tuppence worth

[riffer]

That road itself is quite driveable, its the Kiwi tendancey to not stay on the left hand side that does the damage.
My tuppence worth
Yeah, I reckon the road is a lot better than it used to be when it had the passing lanes.

Does anyone know why the car crossed the centreline?

It is possible the driver had a heart attack, given the age of the people in the car? Or was it an overtaking manoeuvre done at the worst possible time?

[MikeL]

Wellington was a stupid place to build a capital city. You people should come to your senses before more money gets poured down the gurgler. When the big earthquake comes both roads will be completely destroyed and you'll be back to square one. Emigrate now while it's not too late. Only don't all come to Auckland at once. We wouldn't want the value of our houses to keep going up... the rates are getting out of hand already. Your bikes are welcome but leave the cages behind...

[James Deuce]

Wellington was a stupid place to build a capital city. You people should come to your senses before more money gets poured down the gurgler. When the big earthquake comes both roads will be completely destroyed and you'll be back to square one. Emigrate now while it's not too late. Only don't all come to Auckland at once. We wouldn't want the value of our houses to keep going up... the rates are getting out of hand already. Your bikes are welcome but leave the cages behind...Auckland's built on 52 dormant volcanoes. I'll take my 2 fault lines thanks.

[Blakamin]

Wellington was a stupid place to build a capital city. You people should come to your senses before more money gets poured down the gurgler. When the big earthquake comes both roads will be completely destroyed and you'll be back to square one. Emigrate now while it's not too late. Only don't all come to Auckland at once. We wouldn't want the value of our houses to keep going up... the rates are getting out of hand already. Your bikes are welcome but leave the cages behind...



HAHA and become a JAFFA??? no thanks

[Cynic]

Does anyone know why the car crossed the centreline?

It is possible the driver had a heart attack, given the age of the people in the car? Or was it an overtaking manoeuvre done at the worst possible time?

Fatigue would be my guess... end of a 200-250Km trip to Wanganui which they may or may not have gone there and back in the day... Interesting to note that the "Killer Road" has a bit in common with other stretches notorious for this sort of carry on. Similar to the Waikato probs, for a few km on both sides of the blackspots the roads go from being quite open with good sight lines and passing lanes to being a gently winding one lane each way sort of setup. Wouldn't mind betting that the change in surroundings affect some drivers to the point of overload if they aren't quite on form due to a longish trip. Of course, everyone's idea of a longish trip will vary so makes it kinda hard to quantify....

[spudchucka]

Does anyone know why the car crossed the centreline?

We can ask but I don't think we'll get a reply.

Opps, how un PC of me.

[MD]

Spot on comment Celtic. I'm not aware of any bikes crashing there for years so bikers must recognise that the risk is a bit higher along that stretch and ride to it. We might not like the wire but its the most practical. Drivers somehow don't seem to notice how close the opposing cars are and must enjoy riding the vibrating centreline. Give me the wire anyday over reduced speed limit from what is already too slow at times. Some silly Sheila moaning in the DomPost today how another car overtook her. The question shouldn't have been "who" but "why and what were you doing that someone felt the need to pass you?" I'd guess the moaner was holding up traffic and deserved the fright she got discovering the road wasn't built just for her to use. Secondly, put back the passing bays they removed last year and release the frustration from slow cars.

[James Deuce]

Secondly, put back the passing bays they removed last year and release the frustration from slow cars.

Why? The slow people never move into them anyway.

[rodgerd]

I'm not familiar with the bit of road in question, but I voted anyway, for proper median barriers and warning signs. ("Warning - stupid driving may kill you", perhaps?)

Those cheesecutter barriers are a motorcyclist's death waiting to happen.

Also, it's pretty poor if we can't build a main route, SH1 in this case, to be safe at 100kph. If it really *isn't* driveable at that speed (which I doubt) then a new road should be built. Funded by reductions in welfare payments. :innocent:

Given a choice between hitting the cheese cutters at 100, and going under an oncoming truck... is there any difference?

[rodgerd]

Well said, the main factor is of course costs. Motorcyclists are seen as a minority, so the majority, ie vehicle drivers, win out.
That road itself is quite driveable, its the Kiwi tendancey to not stay on the left hand side that does the damage.
My tuppence worth

Yeah - what's in the paper today? A piece on some fuckstick passing on the double yellows along the stretch, and narrowly avoiding a head-on.

People with that level of judgement don't belong on the roads. A license is a privelege, and not a right. Time we got a little more aggro about taking the damn things away; if you can't make good decisions behind the wheel, take a bus.

[James Deuce]

Given a choice between hitting the cheese cutters at 100, and going under an oncoming truck... is there any difference?


Yes. Once you get tangled in the wire you are F__ked. Ground level armco and concrete allow you to slide along the barrier. You will stop abruptly when you hit the cheese cutter.

If you can see an oncoming truck, even sliding on your arse, you still have a chance to avoid it.

[riffer]

Yes. Once you get tangled in the wire you are F__ked. Ground level armco and concrete allow you to slide along the barrier. You will stop abruptly when you hit the cheese cutter.

If you can see an oncoming truck, even sliding on your arse, you still have a chance to avoid it.
Yeah it's amazing how much you can avoid when you're sliding on the road.

Haven't hit armco or wire rope though, so I can't comment on either. Most armco seems to be about a couple of feet above the ground. I would have though there was a possibility of going under it and getting stuck too...

I've noticed also (on the Porirua motorway) there's a tendency to leave a bit of a gap about half a metre wide between the inside edge of the road and the barrier which is not sealed as high as the road.

You'd have a very interesting time trying to get back on the road if you swerved to avoid someone and got stuck in the "ditch".

I guess the onus is on all riders to avoid trouble as much as possible. It seems bad drivers will always be there. All these solutions to the problem seem to me to be like the America answer to traffic safety - if people won't use seat belts, we'll give them airbags so they don't hurt themselves.

Eventually we'll have a situation where you have your entire car computer controlled and actual driving will be taken away from the equation.

And the only people left with any type of motoring freedom will be us :)

[FROSTY]

guys you just don't gettit. The goverment wants all us "fringe groups" to shut up and piss off. Why would they care if a couple of horrible smelly bikie types ended up dead--instead of just hurt and filling up the countrys hospitals. :crazy:

[sedge]

For some reason every Friday night traffic stops and backs up on this road, one of the perks of being on a bike is that I can generally ride between the stopped traffic and just inside the yellow lines coz no traffic is going the other way. If they put up the wires they generally have a banked section towards the middle which isn't that nice to ride on :)... how will I get home quickly now... The paekak hill isn't that nice on the behemoth I'm riding at the moment, maybe I'll have to make the GSXR my Friday rider ?

Sedge.

[merv]

Wellington was a stupid place to build a capital city. You people should come to your senses before more money gets poured down the gurgler. When the big earthquake comes both roads will be completely destroyed and you'll be back to square one. Emigrate now while it's not too late. Only don't all come to Auckland at once. We wouldn't want the value of our houses to keep going up... the rates are getting out of hand already. Your bikes are welcome but leave the cages behind...

That's why it handy to keep a dirt bike on hand so you can leap over the chasms when the time comes and the roads are blocked.

[Ms Piggy]

Lowering the speed & putting up signs is not gonna stop the impatient idiots that cause us all danger by tail gaiting & trying to pass as soon as they can no matter what the road or traffic conditions. :mad:

They need to sort this out!

[Blakamin]

My lovely other half just wondered "where is all the traffic going to go while they erect this cheesecutter?".... Valid point! Over haywards the road was a tad wider.... what, peak hour over paekak hill??? :wacko:

[Skyryder]

Waht's with these cheesecutter things. Never heard of them.

Skyryder

[Mongoose]

We can ask but I don't think we'll get a reply.

Opps, how un PC of me.


Hmmmmmm, un PC from PC Spud

[scumdog]

I've riden a MTB from Porirua to Pukerua Bay and back as well as driving over that stretch and except for the narrow bit at Pukerua the road seemed fine to me, obviously the drivers that caused the c :blah: rashes in that area weren't fine though!

[riffer]

Waht's with these cheesecutter things. Never heard of them.

Skyryder
In keeping with this thread's original intentions, you may be interested in reading the following report I found on the internet regarding the FEMA Motorcyclists and Crash Barriers Project.

http://fema001.kaalium.com/crashbarrier/

It also has pictures of cheesecutters in it.

[BugSplat]

The way I see it, there’s two ways to make it safer:

1) An 8 foot high wall blocking the lovely view that all the cagers are killing themselves to gaze at.

2) Close Wellington airport & force all our elected leaches to travel to PP to fly in & out of the Capital, Transmission Gully would be built before you can say, High speed prime ministerial convoy! :moon:

[Blakamin]

Everytime I get to raumati straight i look at the end of those barriers and think "no wind, noooo wind".... big steel starting scary things!

[Slim]

There was some concern when they started using the "cheese cutter" fencing on the Southern Motorway that it wouldn't stop trucks going through it, just take out their front wheel axles! :eek:

I don't know about any official studies into it, but I recall that a truck did test the cheese cutter fencing fairly early on in the piece, and it did the job, but the bit of motorway that it's on has a 3-4 metre wide grass strip between the opposing traffic flows with the fence in the middle. It's going to be an entirely different story on SH1 north of Wellington though.

[Firefight]

there have been a number of cases were cars and other light vehicles have gone over into the opposing lanes, both on the northern and southern parts of the motorway that are "protected" with wire rope(chesse cutter fence)
F/F

[riffer]

The FEMA report I posted the link to previously mentions that although the wire rope is the most lethal to motorcyclists, it is the CHEAPEST method of barrier.

No prizes for guessing why Transit will go with that one, is there?

[scumdog]

Still got me stumped why the word 'dangerous' and 'killer' is applied to this section of road, it's no different to a lot of SH1 around here, it's just you guys have more people using that section of road, ergo more people that are shit drivers, ergo more crashes. :shifty:

[riffer]

Still got me stumped why the word 'dangerous' and 'killer' is applied to this section of road, it's no different to a lot of SH1 around here, it's just you guys have more people using that section of road, ergo more people that are shit drivers, ergo more crashes. :shifty:
You got it right there SD. It's not dangerous at all. This is a media concoction. Usual sensationalism.

Yes, the road requires more than your average amount of attention. But as the main road out of Welly it does have a lot of traffic.

We just need better drivers.

Or maybe some fake HP cars parked every 3 kilometres at each breakdown stop, like scarecrows. That might wake some of these dozy buggers up.

[merv]

The other thing to ponder is that at least the road was built for the 1940 centenary. Imagine the same hopeless clowns that can't stay on their side of the road all having to drive over Paekak hill as was once the case.

[gav]

That bit of road always attracts my attention on the news, as two mates were killed on a motorcycle by Pukerua Bay about 15-20 years ago now, two up on a GPZ750, crashed on gravel and run over by a vehicle heading the other way. :(

[SPman]

I've riden a MTB from Porirua to Pukerua Bay and back as well as driving over that stretch and except for the narrow bit at Pukerua the road seemed fine to me, obviously the drivers that caused the c :blah: rashes in that area weren't fine though!
A Motor Torpedo Boat ! :eek: !!

Well it would be a bit narrow at Pukerua!