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View Full Version : HRC Trackday on the 07 Honda CBR600RR - 27 March 07



Leong
28th March 2007, 19:51
The Ultimate Test Ride

Friday afternoon I get a call from Botany Honda - "Would you like to take our new 07 CBR600RR to the trackday at Taupo on Tuesday?" says Dave, "We've just unpacked it, Danny and John have already ridden it and think it's great! Have a think about it." You would think the answer would have been a "Hell yeah!!" :Punk: but me being me, there is some hesitation. :innocent: Some of you know that I've learnt a lot from Aaron Slight and this trackday was billed as the "Aaron Slight Rider Development Day". I've taken his last advice regarding braking and increasing corner speed, and I had planned to show my progress and ask him about the next step. Could I do this on an unfamiliar bike straight out of the box? Sent a few texts off to the mates and the general consensus was that I should do it! Of course this meant that Ninjaboy found out about the demo CBR and went down to help run it in on Saturday. :Pokey:

So Monday I finish work early and head down to Botany Honda to swap bikes. Nice black CBR (250km on the clock) greets me and no real instructions on what I can and can't do with it from Danny except that I'm allowed to let riders I know and trust ride it at the track. First thing I notice is how light it feels moving it of it's stand (155kg dry). I head down to the Autobarn to meet Ian on his black Fireblade and we head down to Taupo via SH27 hoping to get there before dark at license friendly speeds.

On the road the riding position is slightly more upright and there seemed more windblast compared to my GSXR. Good on the wrists, probably not so good on the knees with the pegs reasonably high, and after 2.5 hrs I had a sore butt. No problems for me with any of the switchgear though Ninjaboy commented on difficulty getting his foot under the gear lever. One of the Cyclespot guys we pitted with also had the same problem - some adjustment > fixed. Ride comfort was good I thought given the bikes agility. Yes it turns in very well and feels light and highly flickable. The electronic steering damper is interesting. At low speed there is no damping, so you can do the countersteering to avoid potholes etc that we learnt at RRRS. A bit more low to midrange power meant 6th gear overtakes were common in the light Monday afternoon traffic. I almost never do that on the GSXR. General impression was of an efficient motorcycle - not particularly exciting. Get down to Taupo very easily on a one tank (18l capacity vs 16.5l on the GSXR), and it used about a litre less than I'm used to so tank range is much better. The CBR has a fuel gauge and the clock is always on display, even when bikes switched off (great on a trackday). No gear position indicator though - very useful for those of us used to it. Headlights were average.

Tuesday morning and the weather is fine. :banana: There are 90 odd bikes there, mostly Honda's though this isn't always so. No motards or race bikes this time. There are three other 07 CBR600s there, two red and one blue/white. I find taking the mirrors off/on is much easier than on the K6 GSXR. I set the suspension to Sebastien Charpentiers recommended track settings (from Superbike magazine) thinking it'd be a good place to start. Lots of interest in these bikes so much of the day is spent talking about the bike and a few of the regular trackday addicts get a session on the bike. All comments were favourable both with handling and power.

I have an absolute blast on the track. Lots of confidence in the bike means I'm going at the same pace as I do on my bike by the second session. On the track the most impressive for me is the engine. Compared with my GSX-R600 there is more midrange, and coming out of turns 5 and 7 this is most noticeable. Redlined at 15000rpm there seems more at the top end as well. The copied track suspension settings were a good start I thought, except the front felt quite light and I could feel it lifting coming out of turn 1 and 7. This could probably be tuned out. Bike turned in well, most noticeably in turn 9, the "new" A1 right hander which has a relatively high entry speed and minimal braking. On the whole I thought that the CBR was better than my GSXR at the track. (That was difficult to write!) To rub salt to the wound, It also used less fuel at the track. After the usual four sessions it only took 9 litres.

My time with Aaron Slight again proved invaluable. In a later session he followed me for 3 or 4 laps then I followed him for one before the chequered flag. Unfortunately he described my mid corner speed as scary!! :no: His last advice was brake earlier but less, to improve corner speed and I had learnt this well. The problem he saw was that I'm off the brakes and onto the power before the apex and this causes the front to lift when I still want the bike to turn. This lifting as noted above doesn't happen so much on my own bike. Aaron suggested I try to get more weight over the front (sticking a knee out helps with this) and brake later and harder again so I brake right to the apex, then power out from there.

In keeping with the Honda theme, I rode home in the company of three Fireblades. With more time on the bike, this trip was fine on the body. I was mentally tired after six riding sessions and the ride home, but there were no physical aches or sore bum this time. Easily made the trip all the way home without a fuel stop.

A BIG thank you to Botany Honda for the opportunity to try out the new CBR600RR to the fullest extent - It was the Ultimate Test Ride. I've always said that all the guys there are great to deal with so whenever I can, I spend my money there. It's nice to know that these guys do appreciate our business! :rockon:

NinjaBoy
28th March 2007, 20:16
Sounds like you had a good time and interesting to hear your comments on the longer ride comfort to Taupo.

I have one more test ride to do before making a decision soon !

K6K
28th March 2007, 22:10
Wish I hadn't missed this one Leong!


My time with Aaron Slight again proved invaluable. In a later session he followed me for 3 or 4 laps then I followed him for one before the chequered flag. Unfortunately he described my mid corner speed as scary!! His last advice was brake earlier but less, to improve corner speed and I had learnt this well. The problem he saw was that I'm off the brakes and onto the power before the apex and this causes the front to lift when I still want the bike to turn.

This doesn't sound good for me either...but his advice sounds a bit contradictory -

His last advice was brake earlier but less, to improve corner speed
I would of thought this would make scary corner speed into crazy corner speed? When you described this on the phone I thought his advice was to:
A) brake later and deeper into the corner before turn in then turn the bike quickly and stand it up to power out (turn at a slower speed for a shorter time)
As opposed to:
B) brake earlier but less ( turn in a few meters earlier maybe) so you have more corner speed but are turning for longer.
I'm a little confused! Either way it is good to have both options up your sleeve for passing etc. but if Aaron was meaning "scary corner speed" in the context of not recommended for a road bike...bugger.

Leong
29th March 2007, 06:08
This doesn't sound good for me either...but his advice sounds a bit contradictory -

I would of thought this would make scary corner speed into crazy corner speed? When you described this on the phone I thought his advice was to:
A) brake later and deeper into the corner before turn in then turn the bike quickly and stand it up to power out (turn at a slower speed for a shorter time)
As opposed to:
B) brake earlier but less ( turn in a few meters earlier maybe) so you have more corner speed but are turning for longer.
I'm a little confused! Either way it is good to have both options up your sleeve for passing etc. but if Aaron was meaning "scary corner speed" in the context of not recommended for a road bike...bugger.

Sorry Kel,

Wasn't written very well. At the last HRC trackday Aaron was at (November), he thought I needed more mid corner speed. That's when he said, brake earlier and less to try adjusting your speed to enter the corner at higher speed. If you're a beginner like me and you late brake you tend to scrub off too much speed. So I've been doing this and now have the scary corner speed (for a road bike on road tyres, in his opinion).

The next step, (his advice this time) was that now that I know what mid corner speed I should get, was to try to improve my speed going into the corner, ie going back to braking later and harder, but not scrubbing off too much speed as I was before, judging it so that I'm on the brakes all the way to the apex,then, and only then, when I should be able to stand the bike up, I can apply the power harder. The idea is to be either hard on the brakes, or hard on the throttle at any given time. He also said that by doing this, the weight is on the front while your'e doing all the turning, providing more grip, compared to applying some power before the apex which takes the weight off the front.

Makes Sense?

Kendog
29th March 2007, 06:27
Excellent write up. Given me some more to think about as I contemplate my next bike.

Marmoot
29th March 2007, 13:28
Excellent write up.

Now, a hypothetical question......for someone wanting to switch from a Hayabusa, what do you guys reckon between 07 600rr and 05 1000rr?

Advise/opinion most appreciated.

K6K
29th March 2007, 13:39
Sorry Kel,

Wasn't written very well. At the last HRC trackday Aaron was at (November), he thought I needed more mid corner speed. That's when he said, brake earlier and less to try adjusting your speed to enter the corner at higher speed. If you're a beginner like me and you late brake you tend to scrub off too much speed. So I've been doing this and now have the scary corner speed (for a road bike on road tyres, in his opinion).

The next step, (his advice this time) was that now that I know what mid corner speed I should get, was to try to improve my speed going into the corner, ie going back to braking later and harder, but not scrubbing off too much speed as I was before, judging it so that I'm on the brakes all the way to the apex,then, and only then, when I should be able to stand the bike up, I can apply the power harder. The idea is to be either hard on the brakes, or hard on the throttle at any given time. He also said that by doing this, the weight is on the front while your'e doing all the turning, providing more grip, compared to applying some power before the apex which takes the weight off the front.

Makes Sense?

Ok, that does make sense. I usually brake into the corners a bit, as I turn in I am still on the brakes but I progressively release them the further I lean over. But I don't brake very hard at all when leaning however. I can see the theory with some of the corners on Taupo but I think It would be bloody difficult to brake (hard) all the way to the apex. It would make for a lot more potential for front end washouts to! As for the road tyres/ scary corner speed comment...I would be interested to know how much more grip race tyres would give as opposed to pilot powers for instance. I think pilot powers are similar to slicks in the fact that when they let go, they go fast! Due to the minimal tread. The road bike part, well the GSXR is pretty much a supersport race bike anyway right? Just a bit heavier! Still I think next time I will try to drop my scary mid corner speed a bit and try to get a bit more technical in my braking.

Cheers,

Kel

Leong
29th March 2007, 18:26
Excellent write up.

Now, a hypothetical question......for someone wanting to switch from a Hayabusa, what do you guys reckon between 07 600rr and 05 1000rr?

Advise/opinion most appreciated.

If you want to do a few trackdays then the 600 will be much more fun. Quite a few of the guys who rode the 600 on Tuesday owned Fireblades and loved the 600 on the track.

For road..... I think the 600 is more than enough, I can't see the point to having that much more power but then I'm in the minority. Unless carrying pillions, but then you'd be better keeping the busa...

boomer
29th March 2007, 18:54
Dover and Kiwifruit have both ridden my 600 and said its better for track days, i agreed until i'd taken teh gixxxer seven fiddy for a spin.. thats teh real tool for the job.

i dont think theres many people, who arent racers, that can ride a thou faster than a 6hundred around a track like taupo

blueblade
30th March 2007, 12:24
Those 600s are bloody fast on Taupo alright. I was having a good play against a black 06 CBR 600 in one session (me on the Tuono). We were totally locked together all the way down the back straight. I coulda sworn it was a Fireblade. Couldnt believe it when we pitted together and I saw it was the 600. (outbraked him at the end of the straight tho haha !!!!)

Kornholio
30th March 2007, 12:29
Dover and Kiwifruit have both ridden my 600 and said its better for track days, i agreed until i'd taken teh gixxxer seven fiddy for a spin.. thats teh real tool for the job.

What was that Dunc.... you didnt diss the GSXR, OMG will wonders never cease :D

You are the right tool for any job tho :p

Leong
30th March 2007, 20:29
Those 600s are bloody fast on Taupo alright. I was having a good play against a black 06 CBR 600 in one session (me on the Tuono). We were totally locked together all the way down the back straight. I coulda sworn it was a Fireblade. Couldnt believe it when we pitted together and I saw it was the 600. (outbraked him at the end of the straight tho haha !!!!)

Mate, are you sure it wasn't me?? (Check out the photo below) Early in the last or second to last session of the day you outbraked me at the end of the back straight, then I spent most of the session trying to find a way past. I was surprised that the CBR could almost keep up with you on the straights!! The CBR is really good thru the middle section, and eventually I got past you round the outside of turn 3, or maybe on the inside of turn 4. I hope you weren't too sore at me if it was more like the inside of 4. I really enjoyed that session!! :second:

Robyn emailed me a photo from the day!!

aff-man
31st March 2007, 09:02
2 questions...

Is it stable with the wheel high in the air...

And where was the invite??

Sounds like you had a blast but I really want to try one of those 06/07 R6's cause they look to be a track weapon.

Leong
31st March 2007, 09:14
2 questions...

Is it stable with the wheel high in the air...

And where was the invite??

Sounds like you had a blast but I really want to try one of those 06/07 R6's cause they look to be a track weapon.

You know me mate, when I say the front is lifting, it's probably 1mm or 2 off the deck if I'm lucky!!! Not like you guys!!

I think the CBR is a great compromise between road and track, better than the GSXR now. Must ride the R6 too, though it's known to be much more track oriented. Are we seeing you on the 20th?

aff-man
31st March 2007, 09:33
You know me mate, when I say the front is lifting, it's probably 1mm or 2 off the deck if I'm lucky!!! Not like you guys!!

I think the CBR is a great compromise between road and track, better than the GSXR now. Must ride the R6 too, though it's known to be much more track oriented. Are we seeing you on the 20th?

20th? Maybe,.. if the 750 sells I dunno what i'll be riding though. yeh them fecking R6's were about as fast as the 750.... and they appeared to corner like demons.

oldguy
31st March 2007, 10:21
Excellent writeup leong, went to botany honda the other day, saw your bike in the shop, ask Danny, he said you had taken the new 600 out for a test, didn't say you were taken it to the track to test it, lucky bugger.

cheers John.

Just may call in to Botany Honda today, go for a test on it, if you haven,t already brought it.

blueblade
2nd April 2007, 10:13
Mate, are you sure it wasn't me?? (Check out the photo below) Early in the last or second to last session of the day you outbraked me at the end of the back straight, then I spent most of the session trying to find a way past. I was surprised that the CBR could almost keep up with you on the straights!! The CBR is really good thru the middle section, and eventually I got past you round the outside of turn 3, or maybe on the inside of turn 4. I hope you weren't too sore at me if it was more like the inside of 4. I really enjoyed that session!! :second:

Robyn emailed me a photo from the day!!

No it wasnt you the time I described above. That guy was on an 06. I knew it was you when we were together in that last session. Think I was getting too tired by then and started making a few mistakes so I gave up trying to stay with you. The Tuono is fun but it is quite a handful around Taupo and needs quite a bit of muscling through the tight turns. Was starting to spend a bit too much time going sideways. First time ever I actually pitted before the end of the session. Good to see you at the racing on Sunday. Now that really was a blast. I didnt really get on the pace till the third race after we did a bit of tinkering with my rear preload. Made a huge difference to my confidence, particularly in the faster sections. Reckon I'd give those 600's a good run for their money on the motard now (on the small track !!). :rockon:

Leong
2nd April 2007, 13:31
Excellent writeup leong, went to botany honda the other day, saw your bike in the shop, ask Danny, he said you had taken the new 600 out for a test, didn't say you were taken it to the track to test it, lucky bugger.

cheers John.

Just may call in to Botany Honda today, go for a test on it, if you haven,t already brought it.


When I saw my bike in there lined up with those for sale, I though it just looked WRONG. Don't think I'll be buying the demo - If I were moving up to a 600, or going to a new 600 from one two or more yrs old, I would get the CBR, but don't think it's worth changing from my bike.

Did you ride the CBR600? Would be interested to know your thoughts coming from a VTR1000.

Leong
2nd April 2007, 13:50
First time ever I actually pitted before the end of the session.

Surprised!! I though that with all these track/race days you do... (was it three this week? :dodge: )..... that you'd be used to it... must be all this time on the light motards - the Tuono more work?



Good to see you at the racing on Sunday. Now that really was a blast. I didnt really get on the pace till the third race after we did a bit of tinkering with my rear preload. Made a huge difference to my confidence, particularly in the faster sections. Reckon I'd give those 600's a good run for their money on the motard now (on the small track !!). :rockon:

You looked good out there, and improving each time I thought, especially for a first timer. Guess you're hooked then!!!

I noticed that most of the guys on the motards, you included, once they've come out of the last turn onto pit straight, look downwards at the tank then up again. What's that about?

blueblade
2nd April 2007, 14:02
I noticed that most of the guys on the motards, you included, once they've come out of the last turn onto pit straight, look downwards at the tank then up again. What's that about?[/QUOTE]

Probably just an instinctive thing, trying to make an effort to tuck down for the run down the straight. Not too sure really.
Funny though, even though it was my first time racing for real, it felt much safer than an average track day. All the motard guys tend to be very good riders and you just seem to trust that they wont do anything stupid at close quarters. Only had one moment all day when I overcooked it going into the chicane at the end of the back straight. Stuffed up my line and hit the big cone on the apex of the right hander. Threw the bike a bit sideways. But as tends to happen with the motards, the bike quickly sorted itself out and carried on.
I actually dont intend to take the Aprillia onto the track again. Just too much hard work and stress compared to the fun on the motard. I also reckon I would now be quite a bit quicker around the short track on the motard compared to the Tuono.
Catch ya next time.

Leong
2nd April 2007, 16:14
Only had one moment all day when I overcooked it going into the chicane at the end of the back straight. Stuffed up my line and hit the big cone on the apex of the right hander.

Hah!! Not that I stick my knee out very far, but I've hit the cone there with my knee before and knocked it over...

liviy
3rd July 2007, 11:35
Sounds like you had a good time and interesting to hear your comments on the longer ride comfort to Taupo.

I have one more test ride to do before making a decision soon !

Any comments on NinjaBoy's question about the longer ride comfort? I'm curious because for those taking the 600rr07 out for a test ride, isn't usually a Auckland to Taupo length ride! :)

Leong
3rd July 2007, 18:17
Any comments on NinjaBoy's question about the longer ride comfort? I'm curious because for those taking the 600rr07 out for a test ride, isn't usually a Auckland to Taupo length ride! :)

Yes, I summarised them at the end....


In keeping with the Honda theme, I rode home in the company of three Fireblades. With more time on the bike, this trip was fine on the body. I was mentally tired after six riding sessions and the ride home, but there were no physical aches or sore bum this time. Easily made the trip all the way home without a fuel stop.

Since then I've got myself a more aerodynamic helmet, and have been surprised how much difference it makes. I think with the better helmet the lesser wind protection on the CBR would be less obvious.