Why am is this not suprising.

[sunhuntin]

Father charged with violating baby son
A man has appeared in Hawera District Court charged with sexually violating his 15-day-old son
30 March 2007
A baby boy is in Starship Hospital for specialist treatment after allegedly being sexually violated by his father.

The man has made his third appearance in the Hawera District Court this morning, charged with sexual violation and wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. He also faces one charge of assault involving the child's mother.

The boy was just 15-days-old at the time of the attack earlier this month.

The man has been remanded in custody.

[The_Dover]

yup, the naki is a fucked up place.

[chanceyy]

yeah well we can only hope he will get his just desserts in prison .. WTF how can anyone get off violating a 15 day old baby .., sick farker ... kill him now !!!!!!

[Macktheknife]

The boys in max will leave very little I think, good job you sick POS.

[Madness]

Please refrain from using the word "man" when referring to this offender, it offends me.

[sunhuntin]

Please refrain from using the word "man" when referring to this offender, it offends me.

was a direct copy and paste...sorry mate.

[yungatart]

oh, Gawd, that is sick!
What, exactly, is the Anti- smacking bill going to do to perverted ***** like that?

[BarBender]

There's certainly no rest for the wicked is there...:(

[Mom]

If what is alleged is even a remote possibility, can someone lend me a gun? :ar15:

Yep there is no words for this ...?????? :sick: :puke: :angry2:

very very sad

[jonbuoy]

He needs an enema from an industrial sand blaster.

[RT527]

Instead of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars convicting and keeping him alive in jail,....should we not just go spend 30 cents on a bullet??????

[NighthawkNZ]

Instead of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars convicting and keeping him alive in jail,....should we not just go spend 30 cents on a bullet??????

I like the way Singapore do it... they don't offically have the death penalty... and life is life till the day you die...

but what they do is, if you get life, the jusdge will turn round and say since you are going to be jailed for the rest of your natural life, we will save the tax payer $10,000 a year and you be hung...

[Swoop]

Perhaps he was trying to apply for the Inglewood rugby team...

[candor]

This did not involve smacking. There was some serious bodily harm to babies private parts and they are still trying to find the weapon per news report.

Probably another person who'd have resided in a loony bin and never been enabled to breed a generation ago. Or else can we say ..... drug induced psychosis. The alternative is a sane asshole who needs to leave here now.

[Hitcher]

This isn't "usual" domestic violence. Somebody clearly has significant mental issues. I hope the kiddie isn't too badly damaged and that he and his abuser never meet again. I have refrained from using the word "father". I believe that "father" is a word that should mean much more than just being a sperm donor.

[Fub@r]

we will save the tax payer $10,000 a year and you be hung...

Try closer to 50k a year.

Bring in the death penalty.............and string these bastards up

[McJim]

Instead of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars convicting and keeping him alive in jail,....should we not just go spend 30 cents on a bullet??????

why waste a bullet? A half brick would do the job and it could be re-used.

[0arbreaka]

how about a rusty razor blade

[onearmedbandit]

This is suprising, this is not of the same level we are becoming accustomed to. NZ has not got that bad that something like this `isn`t suprising`.

[doc]

Vigilante...

[Quartermile]

Stoping it from getting kinkey:sick: sorry too far I'm just as :puke: by this guy as everyone else, just couldn't help that one:sick:

[Colapop]

Are we so desensitised by this sort of crap that the most we can do is post about how bad we feel about this story? FFS we elect the fucking government. How about we start taking some collective responsibility and tell them to sort this shit out? We have to do something tell these sick fucks that they're not going to be tolerated.

[Krusti]

Number one....make sure he can never breed again! I've got a sharp knife. Or... maybe a blunt one.

I am serious :yes:

[Colapop]

...and then we sink to his level....

[Grahameeboy]

Are we so desensitised by this sort of crap that the most we can do is post about how bad we feel about this story? FFS we elect the fucking government. How about we start taking some collective responsibility and tell them to sort this shit out? We have to do something tell these sick fucks that they're not going to be tolerated.

We cannot always blame the Govt but understand the sentiment. Murder, rape, pillage etc has been going on through the ages and I am sure that such sick stuff happened in Roman times, just never got reported in the 'tablets'.

I am not saying that what happens is right, however, if someone is sick enough to violate a 15 day old baby then it is fair to say that that person has a serious mental problem...as opposed to normal crime.....so even with the death penalty, this would still have happened..............

Take the US, violence still rife despite the death penalty.

When this stuff happens everyone bleats about bring back harsher penalty's, however, this guy needs help and sticking him away only keeps one sicko off the streets and maybe we should look at society as a whole and make changes...............

[Grahameeboy]

...and then we sink to his level....

Exactly...............there has been a thread about 'Depression' recently and we are sympathetic......'Depression' is the low end of mental illness, this guy has a mental illness and we simply judge him by his actions.........

[Grahameeboy]

Number one....make sure he can never breed again! I've got a sharp knife. Or... maybe a blunt one.

I am serious :yes:

As I said, this is our Society so no wonder shit happens with this attitude...............

[_Gina_]

His mental illness is one that has taken him to somewhere which is beyond comprehension.

He needs to not exist anymore, lots of reasons, but importantly for the child's rehabilitation.

RACK THE GAUGE. FUCKER.

[Colapop]

No the government is not to be held solely responsible WE are as a society. But we have elected a government that actively promotes passivity. We, as a society, are being taught to sit back and allow these things to happen - it only really hits home when or if it happens to us. Vigilantism is all very well and good but it doesn't solve the problem. Neither does 'getting him the help that he needs' - WTF is that? Hug him til he feels better about his crime?

Make prison a system of punishment, not a holiday camp for a start.

[_Gina_]

And I agree that he is not a 'Father'.

He donated sperm so a life could be created.

[Krusti]

...and then we sink to his level....

I know... but it's more of a reaction as a parent.The shock that this can even happen!

[Grahameeboy]

His mental illness is one that has taken him to somewhere which is beyond comprehension.

He needs to not exist anymore, lots of reasons, but importantly for the child's rehabilitation.

RACK THE GAUGE. FUCKER.

Just because we don't understand does not mean that he should not get help..........I cannot understand how this guy could do this so we need to try and understand by giving him help.....

[Grahameeboy]

No the government is not to be held solely responsible WE are as a society. But we have elected a government that actively promotes passivity. We, as a society, are being taught to sit back and allow these things to happen - it only really hits home when or if it happens to us. Vigilantism is all very well and good but it doesn't solve the problem. Neither does 'getting him the help that he needs' - WTF is that? Hug him til he feels better about his crime?

Make prison a system of punishment, not a holiday camp for a start.

I say that the 'she'll be right' approach is not down to the Govt.

Take a simple issue......Kiwi's are twice as bad as people in the UK at parking in disabled parking spaces.......'only going to be a few minutes' so if Kiwi's have this view of the disabled then is this down to the Govt too.....

And sorry but this guys needs help, whatever that will be.

[Colapop]

This is beyond what we as a society should try to 'understand'. A line needs to be drawn.

[Grahameeboy]

I know... but it's more of a reaction as a parent.The shock that this can even happen!

Understand, me a Father. However, I am sure this shit has happened through the ages and maybe we tend to think that society has improved when it has not.

[_Gina_]

Just because we don't understand does not mean that he should not get help..........I cannot understand how this guy could do this so we need to try and understand by giving him help.....
Nothing personal dude, but...

I don't agree.

[Krusti]

As I said, this is our Society so no wonder shit happens with this attitude...............

Can you ever see that we as a society are going to stop these things happening? I don't think so.

My post was an over reaction but I know that no matter what we as a society do there will always be those who commit these crimes.

All we need is love .... does not always work. And NO he should not be allowed to have children under his care.

That poor kid!

[Grahameeboy]

This is beyond what we as a society should try to 'understand'. A line needs to be drawn.

Is it though..........not saying we should understand and give him a hotel for the night. I think society has gone down hill, even since your ancestor days, just that society is just more flowered up that we cannot believe that this shit can still happen and oerhaps we are embarrased and react the way we do

[Colapop]

Who said society had improved? We have the internet now and that has served to enlighten all of us to the number of sick bastards out there. As much as technological advances have improved our means of communication it has also served to promote those that have tendencies outside what is socially acceptable. As I said we need to make a stand at some time and say that this is wrong and will not be tolerated at all.

[Grahameeboy]

Sorry, nothing personal dude, but...

I don't agree.

That's cool.....

[Grahameeboy]

Who said society had improved? We have the internet now and that has served to enlighten all of us to the number of sick bastards out there. As much as technological advances have improved our means of communication it has also served to promote those that have tendencies outside what is socially acceptable. As I said we need to make a stand at some time and say that this is wrong and will not be tolerated at all.

We know it is wrong and should not be tolerated. The problem is that people with a mental illness don't understand that to begin with.

[Krusti]

A major problem we have is that this sort of violent problem solving is carried on down through generations. There is a large percentage of our society who have only been taught that if some one pisses you off...bash him.

[Colapop]

How many of life's issues do we then attribute to 'mental illness'? Isn't that just another societal cop out?
"We shouldn't punish those that need help - they are mentally ill"
How far do you take that train of thought? A burgler knows it's wrong to steal but feels compelled to do so because he claims a mental illness? There are varying degrees of mental illness, granted, but there must also be punishment.

[_Gina_]

Is it though..........not saying we should understand and give him a hotel for the night. I think society has gone down hill, even since your ancestor days, just that society is just more flowered up that we cannot believe that this shit can still happen and oerhaps we are embarrased and react the way we do
Nope, don't imagine anyone feeling embarrassed as such.

Just sick in the stomach and heartbroken for the family and medical personel who had to care of the infant.

The risk factor involved in giving him a chance to explain what kind of "turn" he had that led him to do what he did is too much.

This isn't Munchausen by Proxy.<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Grahameeboy]

A major problem we have is that this sort of violent problem solving is carried on down through generations. There is a large percentage of our society who have only been taught that if some one pisses you off...bash him.

Exactly.......which is why I feel we need to treat these problems....I mean this baby maybe carrying the 'gene' and after this experience............well you know what I am saying............

[Grahameeboy]

Nope, don't imagine anyone feeling embarrassed as such.

Just sick in the stomach and heartbroken for the family and medical personel who had to care of the infant.

The risk factor involved in giving him a chance to explain what kind of "turn" he had that led him to do what he did is too much.

This isn't Munchausen by Proxy.<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I was talking generally but understand.

What if this guy was a normal guy (whatever that is eh?), you know the salt of the earth etc and had this 'turn'...........not saying he should do 100 lines 'I must not.......', just saying that fine put him away but still give him help.

[_Gina_]

Exactly.......which is why I feel we need to treat these problems....I mean this baby maybe carrying the 'gene' and after this experience............well you know what I am saying............
Well maybe this guys death could be an example for the next generation.....
Kind of out there, but just a thought...
As opposed to, yup, he did it and society supported him and he is still alive - as in - his behaviour wasn't considered to be abhorent to society.

[Grahameeboy]

How many of life's issues do we then attribute to 'mental illness'? Isn't that just another societal cop out?
"We shouldn't punish those that need help - they are mentally ill"
How far do you take that train of thought? A burgler knows it's wrong to steal but feels compelled to do so because he claims a mental illness? There are varying degrees of mental illness, granted, but there must also be punishment.

No, we all have compulsive disorders I guess but violating a 15 day old baby is a wee bit different to burglary and easier to attribute 'mental illness' to.....

Mind you still worry about you and chicken's though..............

[Grahameeboy]

Well maybe this guys death could be an example for the next generation.....
Kind of out there, but just a thought...
As opposed to, yup, he did it and society supported him and he is still alive - as in - his behaviour wasn't considered to be abhorent to society.

Well you know what thought did?

Like Society supported itself and killed him..............I would feel much better trying to help someone than killing them for what they did.........out of sight out of mind....well until it happens again.

To me the Death Penalty makes us feel better, but does not necessarily solve the problem because those who have the capability to violate a 15 day old baby will not realise but, and I know it's a long short, but if someone with tendencies knows they can get help then maybe..and I agree a big maybe......we can help.

[Colapop]

Let's be clear about the chicken/s... You well know that the comment was made in jest and the person in question (who acquired the said chicken) was not of her full faculties for one reason or another.

[Grahameeboy]

Let's be clear about the chicken/s... You well know that the comment was made in jest and the person in question (who acquired the said chicken) was not of her full faculties for one reason or another.

That's it blame the alcohol......thanks for proving my point......:yes:

[Beemer]

This kind of crime is absolutely abhorrent to decent people and to inflict these kinds of injuries on YOUR OWN SON, who happens to be just 15 DAYS OLD is beyond belief.

I fail to see how anyone who can do this can EVER be rehabilitated. And how the hell could you ever trust him near children again?

[Krusti]

I think this is not so much of a sexual violation but more of a violent reaction to what someone did or said. Just my take on what was reported.

I could be wrong. Have been before. Last time was from memory,1965?:whistle:

[Grahameeboy]

I fail to see how anyone who can do this can EVER be rehabilitated. And how the hell could you ever trust him near children again?

You may be right, however, should at least try.............and I agree he should not be allowed near children...........I am not saying he should not serve time, just he needs help too.

[Mom]

No, we all have compulsive disorders I guess but violating a 15 day old baby is a wee bit different to burglary and easier to attribute 'mental illness' to.....

Mind you still worry about you and chicken's though..............


Let's be clear about the chicken/s... You well know that the comment was made in jest and the person in question (who acquired the said chicken) was not of her full faculties for one reason or another.


That's it blame the alcohol......thanks for proving my point......:yes:


Sorry guys at risk of taking this off topic, I am horrified that a silly incident at a party can be brought up and used (even jokingly) as an example of debauched behaviour when we are discussing the abuse of a defensless infant. :done:

[kro]

There are no lawful deterrants in this nation. Does our leader go on TV, and publicly denounce violence of any sort?. Does she speak out against the teenagers stabbing each other?, and the drunk drivers killing off half a family, leaving the other half to suffer for the rest of their lives?.

Our leader talks money, defends her party members who have fucked up publicly, and pretty much steers clear of most demographics, because it's un-pc to single them out these days. Our nation, left on it's present course, will continue down hill.

[Grahameeboy]

Sorry guys at risk of taking this off topic, I am horrified that a silly incident at a party can be brought up and used (even jokingly) as an example of debauched behaviour when we are discussing the abuse of a defensless infant. :done:

Fair point on my first one but was actually using the other one to show, albeit it in a small way, what I was saying.....but good call and thanks for putting us straight Mom:rockon:

[Grahameeboy]

There are no lawful deterrants in this nation. Does our leader go on TV, and publicly denounce violence of any sort?. Does she speak out against the teenagers stabbing each other?, and the drunk drivers killing off half a family, leaving the other half to suffer for the rest of their lives?.

Our leader talks money, defends her party members who have fucked up publicly, and pretty much steers clear of most demographics, because it's un-pc to single them out these days. Our nation, left on it's present course, will continue down hill.

Trubs is would anyone listen..............it is not just down to the Govt as destiny is in everyone's hands...........

[Beemer]

I think this is not so much of a sexual violation but more of a violent reaction to what someone did or said. Just my take on what was reported.

I could be wrong. Have been before. Last time was from memory,1965?:whistle:

If that is true, then it's even worse - bad enough to be driven by sexual urges that mean you are turned on by babies and children, even worse to inflict injuries of this nature on a defenceless child because someone pissed you off for some reason. If he'd only beaten crap out of whoever upset him (if it was the partner, sounds like he did anyway) that would be bad enough, but I fail to see how any DECENT human being could even contemplate harming a child in this manner. Hell, it's well known that I don't even like kids, but this makes me feel sick.

[kro]

Trubs is would anyone listen..............it is not just down to the Govt as destiny is in everyone's hands...........

Personal destiny moreso, but our national destiny counts for something too, and right now, it looks freaking grim to me. People need to get whomped, and whomped hard for their crimes. The whole Graeme Burton Fiasco is but one instance where the punishment was not hard enough, and he gained freedom, when freedom was not due.

Our leader is supposed to be just that... a leader.... like in business, when the top spot is taken by someone whom is supposed to uphold the ideals and principles of the company, and keeps that their main focus, they lead from the top down. Our nation has a leader who is hasn't publicly condemned anything for as long as I can remember, and when she does, it's because the polls tell her that 90% of the voters agree, so it's a safe bet.

[RT527]

Trubs is would anyone listen..............it is not just down to the Govt as destiny is in everyone's hands...........

Well it would be a start if you and the rest on here started listening...its easy to say would anyone listen...its not about anyone else its about each and every one of us to do something about it...

[Patrick]

Are we so desensitised by this sort of crap that the most we can do is post about how bad we feel about this story? FFS we elect the fucking government. How about we start taking some collective responsibility and tell them to sort this shit out? We have to do something tell these sick fucks that they're not going to be tolerated.

We did that with the referendum not too long ago... "Harsher penalties and sentencing" is what over 92% of the voters said in the referendum. What did Helen and her cronies do??

Brought in home detention, earlier release dates, feeble parole... In other words, she ignored over 92% of the population... again....

[Patrick]

...and then we sink to his level....

I disagree... sounds like justice for the baby to me...

[nadroj]

"He has been charged with sexual violation and intentional wounding of his baby son. It was incorrectly reported yesterday that the offence was sodomy."

What is the difference?

[Patrick]

I was talking generally but understand.

What if this guy was a normal guy (whatever that is eh?), you know the salt of the earth etc and had this 'turn'...........not saying he should do 100 lines 'I must not.......', just saying that fine put him away but still give him help.

Thats a big what if Graeme..

What if he has history of kiddie fiddling? And then does this????

[Patrick]

"He has been charged with sexual violation and intentional wounding of his baby son. It was incorrectly reported yesterday that the offence was sodomy."

What is the difference?

Sexual Violation is is unconsentual sex... intentional wounding is hurting someone real bad...:shutup:

Probably the penalty... sodomy could be consentual (although clearly not in this case...) and the penalty may be lower... unsure... need to look it up.

[Colapop]

We did that with the referendum not too long ago... "Harsher penalties and sentencing" is what over 92% of the voters said in the referendum. What did Helen and her cronies do??

Brought in home detention, earlier release dates, feeble parole... In other words, she ignored over 92% of the population... again....
So... we just give up? Or do we keep going until we force change?

You may not change the world as one person but as a group of people pursuing a common goal you can change the course of history.

[Patrick]

So... we just give up? Or do we keep going until we force change?

You may not change the world as one person but as a group of people pursuing a common goal you can change the course of history.

Just a sign of what they obviously think of the vast majority... look at the anti smacking bill...

Govt is really saying..:motu: we don't care what you think, we will do what we want."

A group of people pursuing a common goal have said "harsher penalties, bin the smacking bill"...just to name a few... but nothing changes.... and we still keep going until the next election...

[Hitcher]

So... we just give up? Or do we keep going until we force change?

What "change" do you want to force? Will kiddie fiddling be stopped by punitive prison sentences, compulsory castration or (horror of horrors) the death penalty? No. Will "right thinking" people somehow feel better because they have been intolerant hard-arses by passing such legislation? Possibly. Will these same "right thinking" people mind building more and more prisons or by sanctioning revenge killing? Possibly. But will kiddie fiddling be stopped by punitive prison sentences, compulsory castration or the death penalty? No.

Rather than attacking the symptom, how about looking at the causes? But that's way harder than building more prisons or introducing state-sanctioned murder, so let's just focus on the symptoms. And moaning about how the "justice" system is failing our society. That's way easier.

[KATWYN]

My goodness these people walk among us. We pass them in the street,
we stand in line at the petrol station with them ,they may even live next door to us....yea they need help - from what i've read rehabilitating people like that is a waste of time. It wouldn't surprise me if the only good thing about 'helping' them is that they are identified and can be kept an eye on,therefore minimising the risk of re-offending.

I know if I was a mental health worker I would rather concentrate my skills on the survivors of these selfish crimes.

[nadroj]

We did that with the referendum not too long ago... "Harsher penalties and sentencing" is what over 92% of the voters said in the referendum. What did Helen and her cronies do??

Brought in home detention, earlier release dates, feeble parole... In other words, she ignored over 92% of the population... again....

Try reverse psychology?

[doc]

Exactly...............there has been a thread about 'Depression' recently and we are sympathetic......'Depression' is the low end of mental illness, this guy has a mental illness and we simply judge him by his actions.........
This guy doesn't have a mental illness,peadophilles (sp) can not be cured .
You can't offer the other cheek to these types. Also you can't naively think that we can tolerate this behaviour as systematic with other problems with our society. Sorry don't agree with PC support on this one. Got to do the hard stuff here and remove him permanently. Fifeen days old man cmon. :gob:

[doc]

Just because we don't understand does not mean that he should not get help..........I cannot understand how this guy could do this so we need to try and understand by giving him help.....Crap crap crap. Nursing students years ago explained what your saying as. A nurse and a social worker come across a KB'r lying in the gutter next to broken bottle outside a bar bleeding with a serious heading injury and unconcious,the nurse turns to the socialworker and says this guy needs help. The social worker says no who ever did this needs help. You are never going to fix the "Kahui" problem in our society. Get use to it. Rhetoric is all we have at the moment pretty sure it was a KB'r

[kevfromcoro]

this is sick,,,15 days old..who would do that....was in thailand a few years ago..saw a drunken marine take a gun of a police officer,more police turned up and put 7 bullets in to him..instant justice.

[Grahameeboy]

I disagree... sounds like justice for the baby to me...

The baby needs healing not justice

[Grahameeboy]

Crap crap crap. Nursing students years ago explained what your saying as. A nurse and a social worker come across a KB'r lying in the gutter next to broken bottle outside a bar bleeding with a serious heading injury and unconcious,the nurse turns to the socialworker and says this guy needs help. The social worker says no who ever did this needs help. You are never going to fix the "Kahui" problem in our society. Get use to it. Rhetoric is all we have at the moment pretty sure it was a KB'r

That is just how I feel................to say 'Never' is a shame to say. You may be right, however, got to at least try.

[Grahameeboy]

Well it would be a start if you and the rest on here started listening...its easy to say would anyone listen...its not about anyone else its about each and every one of us to do something about it...

I was talking about the Govt...and the rest of what you say is what I am saying........

[RT527]

I was talking about the Govt...and the rest of what you say is what I am saying........

Rgr ..I knew that , sorry my point wasn't against you more in favor of all of us doing something collectively, but by doing that we have to be gutsy enough to first stand up and say I don't like this I want to do something about it.

I think harsher penalty's would work ... how ever there will always be cases found that support it and are equally against it...

Remember statistics only work if you understand what statistics don't show you.

[Mom]

yea they need help - from what i've read rehabilitating people like that is a waste of time. It wouldn't surprise me if the only good thing about 'helping' them is that they are identified and can be kept an eye on,therefore minimising the risk of re-offending.

I know if I was a mental health worker I would rather concentrate my skills on the survivors of these selfish crimes.

Thank you for this........I have looked after the (child) victims of abuse in the past, all sorts of abuse, and I know that it is symptomatic of the society that these people are raised in. This society (read culture) is often completely different from the ones that you and I have experienced. The person that has inflicted this damage to this poor little boy can never be rehabilitated. He needs "help" by way of never ever being in a place to do something like that again. My earlier post stands.


My feelings tonight though are for that poor little boy, I hope that the physical damage he has sustained can be repaired without ongoing problems, and that he is raised in a safe, secure and loving family away from the "culture" he was born into, also the people that are having to deal with his injuries and God help them his family that will no doubt be dealing with their own grief that something like this could happen to them.

[Grahameeboy]

Rgr ..I knew that , sorry my point wasn't against you more in favor of all of us doing something collectively, but by doing that we have to be gutsy enough to first stand up and say I don't like this I want to do something about it.

I think harsher penalty's would work ... how ever there will always be cases found that support it and are equally against it...

Remember statistics only work if you understand what statistics don't show you.

In the Isle of Man the punishment is the birch and as far as I know crime is virually non-existent...............

[Grahameeboy]

Thank you for this........I have looked after the (child) victims of abuse in the past, all sorts of abuse, and I know that it is symptomatic of the society that these people are raised in. This society (read culture) is often completely different from the ones that you and I have experienced. The person that has inflicted this damage to this poor little boy can never be rehabilitated. He needs "help" by way of never ever being in a place to do something like that again. My earlier post stands.


My feelings tonight though are for that poor little boy, I hope that the physical damage he has sustained can be repaired without ongoing problems, and that he is raised in a safe, secure and loving family away from the "culture" he was born into, also the people that are having to deal with his injuries and God help them his family that will no doubt be dealing with their own grief that something like this could happen to them.

True...I guess by help I do not expect the person to be completely rehabilitated, but help in some form or another is what is needed...rather than the other suggested alternatives.

[Mom]

True...I guess by help I do not expect the person to be completely rehabilitated, but help in some form or another is what is needed...rather than the other suggested alternatives.

Bless you and your see good in all attitude my friend!.......it is a very sad reflection on the values that some live by that this sort of shit is not dealt with. I was un-prepared to learn that there is this other culture alive and well in NZ, and that in fact there is little hope for the people that are trapped in it. We have a sub-culture in this country that most only ever hear about when a case like this comes to our attention. I have seen it and dealt with it wearing a couple of different hats, pity of it is I dont have answers........
i wish i did.......

[doc]

That is just how I feel................to say 'Never' is a shame to say. You may be right, however, got to at least try.
No we don't have to try to help the prick. We stop him doing it again. I favour the cost saving method spend the money on the victims.
Looks like its a Grameeboy bashing thread this time change from cop/maori bashing.So refreshing

[Patrick]

The baby needs healing not justice

That he will get, hopefully without memories but time will tell. Justice on behalf of the kiddie and the other good bastards in his family and the rest of the caring community is what I was meaning.

[Grahameeboy]

No we don't have to try to help the prick. We stop him doing it again. I favour the cost saving method spend the money on the victims.
Looks like its a Grameeboy bashing thread this time change from cop/maori bashing.So refreshing

So can't we help him to stop doing it again.................reading Mom's experiences there are a lot of buggered people out there who probably do things that to them are normal but to us are not.........I mean normal is what you have known and experienced.............

Spending money on victims is priority :yes: but then ask yourself who else is the victim.............of their culture / society.

Feel free to Grahameeboy Bash...bring it on........be nice to give the cops / Maori's, Asians....Dovers (??) a break

[Grahameeboy]

That he will get, hopefully without memories but time will tell. Justice on behalf of the kiddie and the other good bastards in his family and the rest of the caring community is what I was meaning.

I knew what you mean.....as usual I don't see it that way.......justice don't change what happens.............not saying this guy should not be dealt with but to me justice is often a self centred thing...........I know I will get bashed for that and it is something hard to explain properly.....justice does not remove the pain.......

[Kittyhawk]

It sickens me. How or why do people think like this. He's sick in the head and beyond helping.

[SwanTiger]

What has happened to the child is severly distressing, however what is going to happen to him once child youth and family services enter into his life is even more distressing!

Viva la prison justice!

[doc]

Spending money on victims is priority :yes: but then ask yourself who else is the victim.............of their culture / society.

Feel free to Grahameeboy Bash...bring it on........be nice to give the cops / Maori's, Asians....Dovers (??) a break
How many times, would you have to get a beating or your house robbed before you felt it was time to retaliate. Now listen carefully THE PEOPLE WHO DO THESE CRIMES ARE NOT VICTIMS. .

Dover needs the bash anyway makes him feel loved.

[Grahameeboy]

It sickens me. How or why do people think like this. He's sick in the head and beyond helping.

Sickens me too.....but should we not find out how or why to perhaps try and understand and maybe stop some other child being violated.

By giving up on helping are we not giving up on helping those who are at risk?

[Grahameeboy]

How many times, would you have to get a beating or your house robbed before you felt it was time to retaliate. Now listen carefully THE PEOPLE WHO DO THESE CRIMES ARE NOT VICTIMS. .

Dover needs the bash anyway makes him feel loved.

I was not referring to burglars and the like as victims....I was relating to Mom's post.

To be honest, I am not a retaliating kinda of person. If I got beaten up I would rather get better and carry on with my life. If I got robbed, I am Insured and at end of day they are just material things....okay being a Londoner I will voice my opinions and when it comes to my Daughter I will bash heads (metaphorically speaking) to get what she needs but that is it

[Grahameeboy]

What has happened to the child is severly distressing, however what is going to happen to him once child youth and family services enter into his life is even more distressing!

Viva la prison justice!

Agree, better prison than the others, they can get help in prison

[RT527]

.....justice does not remove the pain.......

No but Justice should be seen to remove and help the Cause of the Pain

[RT527]

Sickens me too.....but should we not find out how or why to perhaps try and understand and maybe stop some other child being violated.

By giving up on helping are we not giving up on helping those who are at risk?

Ok I can only think of a couple of things here to reply to this....

Right and wrong

Cause and effect.

What is your understanding of Right and wrong....

What caused it and what is the effect?

[Grahameeboy]

No but Justice should be seen to remove and help the Cause of the Pain

From Society's point of view, I agree.

[Grahameeboy]

Ok I can only think of a couple of things here to reply to this....

Right and wrong

Cause and effect.

What is your understanding of Right and wrong....

What caused it and what is the effect?

I understand what is right and what is wrong.

I understand cause and effect.

I just see things differently and respect how you see things.

I guess it is a case of 'Doing the right thing' or 'Doing things the right way'.....

[Patrick]

Sickens me too.....but should we not find out how or why to perhaps try and understand and maybe stop some other child being violated.

I know what you are saying but, for this guy, 1 x bullet = problem solved/no more victims..

[Ixion]

Yup. Nice and simple. That's my philosophy too. You people make it too complicated. Justice, revenge, understand, cure, retaliation. All big complicated concepts. Too hard to deal with, takes too long.

Mine is a much simpler world, cos I'm a very simple person. A person only has a right to exist in society if they make, have made or will make a contribution to society. Overall, does this person do so? If not, remove him. Nothing to do with any of that complicated emotional stuff. Just simple logic. You could probably program a computer to do it. Cost of maintainingone societal unit = x. Accumulated contribution value of unit, plus net current value of expected future contribution = y. If x > y, remove unit.

[Grahameeboy]

Yup. Nice and simple. That's my philosophy too. You people make it too complicated. Justice, revenge, understand, cure, retaliation. All big complicated concepts. Too hard to deal with, takes too long.

Mine is a much simpler world, cos I'm a very simple person. A person only has a right to exist in society if they make, have made or will make a contribution to society. Overall, does this person do so? If not, remove him. Nothing to do with any of that complicated emotional stuff. Just simple logic. You could probably program a computer to do it. Cost of maintainingone societal unit = x. Accumulated contribution value of unit, plus net current value of expected future contribution = y. If x > y, remove unit.

If only life was that simple.

[Ixion]

It is, if you make it simple.Besides, the question was not about life, but about society, and law. They are much simpler than human life.

[doc]

I will voice my opinions
Cmon your starting to sound like the crickets. I will go away now.its like banging your head again sa wall, feels better when you stop .

[KATWYN]

A person only has a right to exist in society if they make, have made or will make a contribution to society. .

A wee bit off topic here *apologies* I agree with a lot of your comments ixion, what do you define as making a 'contribution' to society?

[BAD DAD]

Whether this guy was criminal or sick makes no differance to his victim(s), and one way or the other our society is far too inaffective to deal with him effectively. He needs to meet his maker asap where I'm sure there will be no mucking about with health system protocols, justice system fiascoes or any other p.c. stalling tactics.

[Ixion]

A wee bit off topic here *apologies* I agree with a lot of your comments ixion, what do you define as making a 'contribution' to society?

I'm pretty eclectic in my own conceptualisation.

Helping produce widgets, waitressing, writing poetry, playing in a band, bringing up children,delivering letters, manning a helpdesk, bringing up grandchildren, making an aged parent's life happier, digging a garden, fixing hurt seabirds, driving a taxi or a truck, building houses, catching criminals, nursing sick people, dishing out speeding tickets.

Anything that doesn't hurt people needlessly and helps make the wheels go round. Anything that , if noone anywhere were doing it, someone would say "that's a pity". But more inmportantly, DOING WHAT YOU CAN.

And remember, contribution past present or future. And I think that a society as rich as ours (and we are a very rich society) can easily afford to support the few poor souls born damaged , or damaged early in life.