Sick Suzi

[Disco Dan]

Did a service on Suzi yesterday, and she has not been behaving since. Changed the oil and filter, replaced the spark plugs (correct gaps) as well as pulling the K&N filter out and cleaning it and re-oiling it. While I had the filter out I sprayed a bit of carb cleaner into each port, and gave everything a little rev before putting things back.

Now when I nail the throttle, it seems to hesitate and jerk a little. It feels starved of petrol or air at high revs. Around town it's fine, its only when I jump on the mway and start using the higher revs it starts choking.

Any suggestions?

Should I reset the computer?

Thanks in advance folks.

[Macktheknife]

Over- oiled the air filter?

[White trash]

Blocked main jets. Simple to fix but you'll need a screw. Driver?

[Disco Dan]

Over- oiled the air filter?

That is a posibility? I have never had a K&N filter before, and just sort of 'guessed' gave it a good spray until the whole thing was red like it said on the bottle. I may pull it out (which means taking the tank off, the battery out and removing a large metal bracket that has about 6 bolts on it) cover the hole with a bit of cheese cloth and take her for a quick blat.

[Disco Dan]

Blocked main jets. Simple to fix but you'll need a screw. Driver?

Everything looked hunky-dorey before and clean as a wistle after the clean up? I guess I may have 'dislodged' a bit of muck and caused a blockage??

Im not familiar with these carbs, they are a little more complicated than the SU Carbs im used to working on in minis!

[White trash]

Not really. Disconnect the throttle cable, pull the carbs off as a bank, turn em upside down, remove the float bowls, pull the slides out, grab an airgun and blow the fuck outta the jets. Reassemble and rev tune

[Disco Dan]

I am concerned however that the battery water was about 2-3cm below the "low" mark, after only 3 weeks from being topped up before.

I smeared vaseline on all connectors and gave everything a good coating of CRC as part of the service. I did notice a little water in each spark plug chamber, again a skirt of light oil and a rag sorted that.

At the moment, everything seems to point to the air cleaner. The only other thing would be the spark plug cap on piston 4 popped off the wire (had been repaired before) and there was some green corossion inside. Cleaned up and re-attached and seemed to work fine.

[Disco Dan]

Not really. Disconnect the throttle cable, pull the carbs off as a bank, turn em upside down, remove the float bowls, pull the slides out, grab an airgun and blow the fuck outta the jets. Reassemble and rev tune

Just clean using air? i gather rev tune to mean, idle?

Cheers

[paturoa]

Before you shag around with the carbs, put the old plugs back in and eliminate that first.

[Disco Dan]

Before you shag around with the carbs, put the old plugs back in and eliminate that first.

they are a pain to get out... have to remove part of the frame and need a weird size socket to get the smeggers out...

The repaired HT cap may be the culprit, as I just pushed it back onto the wire and did not re seal it with silcone... goint to pull tank off (again) and tape it up and see if that makes a difference.

[paturoa]

The repaired HT cap may be the culprit, as I just pushed it back onto the wire and did not re seal it with silcone... goint to pull tank off (again) and tape it up and see if that makes a difference.

Tape on the outside is unlikey to make any difference if that is the culprit.

[Disco Dan]

Just pulled the tank off, cut the HT lead off and re-attached to the cap.

Noticed the timing chain needs adjustment "can hear it out just a tad".

....going for a quick blat up the Mway now :innocent:

[_Gina_]

Before you shag around with the carbs, put the old plugs back in and eliminate that first.
:yes: Personally, I would check them while you are half the way there.....
or
you could put it all back together and it not be fixed, then you should definitely eliminate the plugs !
which will require you to remove all the parts you just R & R'd.

And who do you think you are Paturoa, thinking that duct tape won't fix everything????


LOL

[paturoa]

what about zip ties and a hug - oh did I say that out loud ....

[_Gina_]

I smeared vaseline on all connectors....
Prolly lubed it up a bit much and created some sorta conducting fluid which is helping the spark to "escape" and hence the problem?

[Disco Dan]

back now... the problem still there.

Eliminated the plugs. They are brand new and correctly gapped. The HT caps are all perfect now.

It only happens when I really 'open' the throttle up - im thinking carbs now... dirty - not enough fuel when fully wound up. Will strip them down and clean it all out.

damit... dam tank is a pain to take off... and the airbox... well thats a hours work just there!

...timing? yes I can hear its out, as well as feel it.. put fingers lightly on the chain cover on the head and give it a rev. But thats tomorrows job! :yes:

[_Gina_]

back now... the problem still there.

Eliminated the plugs. They are brand new and correctly gapped. The HT caps are all perfect now.

It only happens when I really 'open' the throttle up - im thinking carbs now... dirty - not enough fuel when fully wound up. Will strip them down and clean it all out.

damit... dam tank is a pain to take off... and the airbox... well thats a hours work just there!

...timing? yes I can hear its out, as well as feel it.. put fingers lightly on the chain cover on the head and give it a rev. But thats tomorrows job! :yes:
You must listen carefully

You can't eliminate the plugs as being a cause of the problem until you have put the old one's back in.

Honestly, do it now to avoid drama later.

[Disco Dan]

You must listen carefully

You can't eliminate the plugs as being a cause of the problem until you have put the old one's back in.

Honestly, do it now to avoid drama later.

but they are exactly the same as the old ones... just less 'black'. ???????

Pulling the carbs off is much less hassle the getting those pesky plugs out with the stupid tool I get. its like a tube with a couple of holes in it, shove a allen key through the top and get pliers on it to turn... takes a good 2 min to move it a 1/8 of a turn!!! no room! Cant get sockets in there either. The 4 spark plug sockets I have are all the wrong size too.

A subaru full of natives and just about bottoming out their suspension decided to overtake me on the mway... poor suzi just gagged and jerked and wouldnt go any faster.... im taking the carbs off...

[_Gina_]

but they are exactly the same as the old ones... just less 'black'. ???????


Okay dokey

That doesn't eliminate them though. Can't be bothered explaining why though...


Good luck.

G

[paturoa]

I was serious about not turning the the cam adjuster knob - you will fark the cam chain and or guides. It only takes up the slack in the cam chain and only turns in one direction - tighter.

Go download a manual and have a good read.

You cannot adjust the cam timings without a whole lot of work, and taking the cam cover off, slotting the cam sprockets, and settting them using dial gauges etc etc.

[Disco Dan]

I was serious about not turning the the cam adjuster knob - you will fark the cam chain and or guides. It only takes up the slack in the cam chain and only turns in one direction - tighter.

Go download a manual and have a good read.

You cannot adjust the cam timings without a whole lot of work, and taking the cam cover off, slotting the cam sprockets, and settting them using dial gauges etc etc.

yeah, its a bti of work. But I got all the gear to do it... and the manual. So will give it a go...

[Disco Dan]

Okay dokey

That doesn't eliminate them though. Can't be bothered explaining why though...


Good luck.

G

Thanks, it seems to be the most logical thing thats going wrong... It is possible the new plugs could be faulty ie cracked insulator and only sparking through the crack at high rpm. Is that what you meant?

[_Gina_]

Thanks, it seems to be the most logical thing thats going wrong... It is possible the new plugs could be faulty ie cracked insulator and only sparking through the crack at high rpm. Is that what you meant?
Not as such.

Your description of the fault is just that; your description.

I based most of my comments on what you have changed since it was not presenting with the fault you describe (straight after you changed stuff)

Re: the above, I meant that you were assuming that you didn't crack an insulator or that you had tightened the plugs properly or, or, or.....
which is a common mistake that home mechanics make, you may or maynot be one....

G

[Disco Dan]

Not as such.

Your description of the fault is just that; your description.

I based most of my comments on what you have changed since it was not presenting with the fault you describe (straight after you changed stuff)

Re: the above, I meant that you were assuming that you didn't crack an insulator or that you had tightened the plugs properly or, or, or.....
which is a common mistake that home mechanics make, you may or maynot be one....

G

crystal clear... thank you. My thought process got there in the end... more challanges await me tomorrow!

i have to ask.. and im sooo going to regret this comment...

Whats a stiffy?

[Disco Dan]

Ask Dover - he knows all about my stify.

Id rather not... the whole 'pigmy love' thing is disturbing.




Operation pull the plugs today! Dam things... wheres my beer...

[Max Preload]

Not as such.

Your description of the fault is just that; your description.

I based most of my comments on what you have changed since it was not presenting with the fault you describe (straight after you changed stuff)

Re: the above, I meant that you were assuming that you didn't crack an insulator or that you had tightened the plugs properly or, or, or.....
which is a common mistake that home mechanics make, you may or maynot be one....

G

And given earlier mention of a the plugs requiring a "funny size socket" it's quite possible damage could be done installing the new plugs. But I'm leaning towards the suppressor cap...:rolleyes:

[Disco Dan]

Ok, its NOT the plugs. Just put the old ones back in. Still the same symptoms.

Suggestions on a post card folks addressed to:

PO Box "disco dans brain"

[Disco Dan]

And given earlier mention of a the plugs requiring a "funny size socket" it's quite possible damage could be done installing the new plugs. But I'm leaning towards the suppressor cap...:rolleyes:

worked out the tool in the end..

Now, it could either be a lead arcing or the carbs.

Maybe I dislodged some muck when I sprayed a bit of carb cleaner in them.

damit ! ! blimin thing!

LINKY to photo. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/4463/ppuser/8187)

[Disco Dan]

OK, cleaned out the carbs again. Waiting for the K&N filter to dry so I can re-oil it.

If it doesnt work this time.... far out... will be shopping for some new HT leads tomorrow :angry:


EDIT:

all back together now... off for a test ride ;)

[Disco Dan]

Ive lost count of how many times ive taken the tank off... *rolls eyes*

* it's not the air filter.
* its not the spark plugs (new ones back in now)
* its not the carbs.

That leaves - HT leads. My next theory is that one of the HT leads is arcing under high RPM. (anything over 8000rpm)

Ok, well tomorrow I will head over to Motohaus and get a price on a new set of HT leads....

Unless anyone has any other suggestions for the cause?

Is there any way to test the leads?

(short of reving the bike over 8000rpm and looking for a spark... the neigbours hate the bikes already)

Two days of working on this bike, and all ive got is very clean carbs and new oil and spark plugs!

Well she's had a wash, garage cleaned up and she's safely away for the night... may give her a wax later tonight ;)

...off to pick Kerrys' brain tomorrow I think... Hope it doesnt use too much pingers ($$$).

[Disco Dan]

Oky-dokey...

Caps seem fine - tested them. Leads are borderline ok.. so bought new ones.
One lead... checked inside and one of the contact needles has begun to rust...

So now, clean out the coil contacts. Fit new leads and fit the old caps back on.

...back to the shop for more cable methinks... what a kurfufle.. :wacko:

anyone got any tips for getting the new leads onto the caps? they screw on.. but are hard to get started.

UPDATE:

Well, all new leads installed. Apparently, I wasnt meant to pull the leads out the coils.. woops. They are a sealed unit and are bought as one item according to Suzuki. Well if it aint broke dont fix it yeah! Oh and they wanted $49 for EACH CAP. Told em their dreamin.

Everything shiny and new... back from a quick test ride. Same thing. damit.

Not quite as bad, but still very sluggish and hesitates over 8000rpm.

What next? prob coils, will have to look up how to test them. If coils test out ok, then the carbs are coming off...

[Max Preload]

Apparently, I wasnt meant to pull the leads out the coils.. woops. They are a sealed unit and are bought as one item according to Suzuki.

If they have a screw on cap they're capable of being disassembled i.e. the leads aren't moulded into the coil, so they're either talking crap or they're only able to be purchased complete.

Considering how little you actually did to it (oil & filter, clean & re-oil the air filter, spark plugs and a bit of carb cleaner down the carbs - presumably running?) there's not that much it can be. I'm still going with suppressor caps - probably poor contact with the HT leads or perhaps at the coil end.

Does it do it only under load at 8000rpm or can you get past that 'barrier' on light throttle? What about high load low rpm (like 3/4 throttle @ 2500rpm)?

[Big Dog]

You mention water a bit throughout the thread.
Are you sure you have none in your tank?

It may sound silly but I have had similar issues on my old 1100 after getting a small amount of water in the tank refuelling in the rain.

If you rev it up and back off suddenly in neutral what does it do?
And the same thing in a gear (not first or second)?

[imdying]

Any decent auto electric shop will be able to buy NGK caps from Darbi's or wherever. Don't over oil your filter. If oil drips off of it or pools, you've way over oiled it.

[ManDownUnder]

Dude - you SURE it's not the K&N filter? Remove it from the bike... take it for a test ride. If no difference you can rule it out.

If the problem disappears I'd say you've over oiled it - it's and choking the bike. The could come up at >8,000rpm because that's when you give it a handful and everything opens up - except the airflow which you could have choked off a bit (alting the fuel mix etc).

That's be my first port of call. 2nd would be leads etc which you're obviously working on.

[surfer]

If you do pull the K&N filters best to make sure you pull all of them off.

[Disco Dan]

I dont think its water in the tank... I filled up just after it started happening. Should I put a capful of meths in the tank just in case?

I have re-oiled the filter, and im pretty sure I did not put too much on. I will take it off and try it that way to check thought... ( I dont remember it being red when I took it out the first time to clean it though... just a pale white with black speckles...so maybe it did not have oil on it?)

The leads have a weird double clip on each coil, one of the contacts was rusty which i cleaned as best as I could.

I went to repco to enquire about new caps - they could not find them in their parts list. Henderson Mcycles, quoted me $48 each cap.

The trouble is even if only one of the caps is faulty, there is now way for me to test each one and find out. I have to replace the lot?

Thanks for your advice folks!!

[Disco Dan]

well well well.... who would have guessed....

Thanks SKIDMARK for helping me fix "Suzi" - cheers dude she's running mint now :) no longer horses but steeds now!

[Big Dog]

well well well.... who would have guessed....

Thanks SKIDMARK for helping me fix "Suzi" - cheers dude she's running mint now :) no longer horses but steeds now!
And the fault was?

[Disco Dan]

And the fault was?


Dude - you SURE it's not the K&N filter? Remove it from the bike... take it for a test ride.

you were right MDU, twas the air filter! Removed it and went up the road... :gob: ...cleaned all the oil off and put it back in.... :gob: :gob: ...then removed the restrictor baffle... :gob: :gob: :gob: far out... goes like the clappers... :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[skidMark]

you were right MDU, twas the air filter! Removed it and went up the road... :gob: ...cleaned all the oil off and put it back in.... :gob: :gob: ...then removed the restrictor baffle... :gob: :gob: :gob: far out... goes like the clappers... :yes: :yes: :yes:

no worrys dude, you need any other help with it gimme a yell,

you can clean the bike urself tho lol

[Disco Dan]

Ok so shes all better now. After taking the oil off the air filter and running it dry, it seems she was starved of air at high rpm. Tried out the redline in each gear this morning and she still wants more air than can be delivered. Fine under high load upto 10500rpm (redlines at 12) then there is a slight hesitation again although not as bad as before. She still wants more air!

[Disco Dan]

Well it seems my suzi is no longer sick... still dont know what was causing all the problems though.... really weird...

She was still gasping at high RPM, the air filter fiasco just moved the symptoms further up the rev range...

..however, on wednesday I gave her twist, hit 8000rpm and peow... she took off... "WTF? the power band is back?" ...took her to red line in second and third... shes not gasping? TIS FIXED ! ! ! No idea what was wrong... it just did not work... now it does... !! joy! off to play with my powerband again!!! yahoo!

[Big Dog]

Well it seems my suzi is no longer sick... still dont know what was causing all the problems though.... really weird...

She was still gasping at high RPM, the air filter fiasco just moved the symptoms further up the rev range...

..however, on wednesday I gave her twist, hit 8000rpm and peow... she took off... "WTF? the power band is back?" ...took her to red line in second and third... shes not gasping? TIS FIXED ! ! ! No idea what was wrong... it just did not work... now it does... !! joy! off to play with my powerband again!!! yahoo!
If the original problem was your air cleaner your carbs would have been full of impurities such as filter oil.
Not necessarily the evil but probable.

[Disco Dan]

If the original problem was your air cleaner your carbs would have been full of impurities such as filter oil.
Not necessarily the evil but probable.

I think it was too much *bike love* :love:

[Big Dog]

I think it was too much *bike love* :love:

So that is Sticki Suzi not Sick Suzi?