Questions about racing

[placidfemme]

Right now I'm starting to like the look of track racing. I know its a bit pre-mature seeing as I still havn't got my ass onto a track yet (working on that).

However, I have some questions. I've read Frosty's thread on what you need to get into the basics of racing: (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=3032)

But there are some terms I don't get:

What are the Forumla classes for (F* etc). Do the different F numbers stand for different types of bike (ie sports, sidecars, motards etc) or do they stand for cc ratings (ie 250, 400, 600 etc). And what are these classes: Sports Production & Production Superbike?

Also I think I've gathered enough to know that Clubmans (or just the word "clubmans") is for real newbies into the racing scene? Is that correct?

If the above is correct then does that mean if I wanted to do some racing, I would start at clubmans level? Or would I be able to jump right into a F* class? (Not that I would... but could I?)

Also what are the bike/cc restrictions (if any) for the clubmans?

Seeing as a lot of racers in the WSB started off on 250's and worked up. Would you recommend getting into bucket racing? What exactly does the term "bucket" racing mean? Does bucket mean shitty old bike or what? (No offense... I just really don't know)

Also, I've seen a lot of talk about "pit bitches" and those who help the racers etc. If your entering racing on a smaller level (newbie group... clubmans or whatever) would you need to have a pit crew?

I know... random silly questions... but if you don't ask you don't find out :)

Thanks in advance

PF

[cowpoos]

you can easly take the lights etc off your bike and race it in clubmans or streetstock...both awesome starting points...the F's mean formula...ie...formula 1... and buckets is a matter of opinion...I don't really think its a worth while starting platform...but other do...it will teach you race craft no doubt...but I think its suited to the more mechanically minded and competent... go clubmans chicky!!!

[placidfemme]

go clubmans chicky!!!

Thanks :)

So clubmans is open to any cc bike?

Also would you recommend me volunteering to be a "newbie" pit bitch to learn some things first (like bike set up etc)

[placidfemme]

Buckets teach you lines, and race technique without depending on HP, so some people say it teaches you more actual race technique than the bigger bikes do... I know of racers that say starting in buckets helped them 100% get where are today, and that includes Dom Jones who is currently racing in the US Superbikes...

Its all a matter of opinion.... but I say take confidence and skill into account when you make the decision...

Well as mentioned in my first post, I havn't been on the track yet. And due to financial reasons it'll be at least another month or so before I get the chance to fang it (or at least try to LOL) around a track. I was thinking of doing one of Frosty's Trackdays, because he obviously does racing and so maybe once he's seen how good/crap I am he could help advise me on whats the next best step to take to enter into racing...

I'd like to decide what I wanna do before I go upgrading my bike incase I decide to take on racing I'll need to adjust my "next bike" idea to suit (if that makes sense). As an example, if I don't do racing I want an R6 for road joy riding, but if I decide I'd rather do racing cause its more fun (or whatever) then I'll need to decide on a bike that is for racing in the class/formula I'd be entering in...

*lost my track of thought cause the boss was blabbing away about something*

[Joni]

:lol:

I removed my post - reckon Kick can put it better than me... but hey what the hell PC. :innocent:

edit - just remember you cant ride a 250 as a bucket...

[cowpoos]

Thanks :)

So clubmans is open to any cc bike?

Also would you recommend me volunteering to be a "newbie" pit bitch to learn some things first (like bike set up etc)
yeah...just enter in clubmans....no restrictions on cc's etc...its all about getting people on the track!!! and I'm sure you could rope one of the handy andy's on this site to help you prep your bike ready to race...learning to pit bitch is a good idea....but I reckon just do it!!! you will soon learn what to do on the day as you see and ask other people..its not really that hard ;)

[Riff Raff]

Hey chicky get yourself down to the track for club racing to see what it's all about.. Hang around the pits, ask lots of questions and enjoy watching the racing. That will give you an idea if it's something you want to do, and then go for it!

[MadDuck]

Theres damn heaps of KBers racing (and their hard working pit crews - we dont call them bitches to their faces ah??? :shit: ) that will be happy to answer your questions but sometimes its best to go along and see how it all works in the flesh.

[FROSTY]

My suggestion to you quite simply is forget RACING for a lil while.
Go out and do at least ONE or two track days just to get a feel for what its like to be on a racetrack.
A track day is a non pressure way of getting laps with little or no pressure on yourself.

[cowpoos]

My suggestion to you quite simply is forget RACING for a lil while.
Go out and do at least ONE or two track days just to get a feel for what its like to be on a racetrack.
A track day is a non pressure way of getting laps with little or no pressure on yourself.
yeah way to encourage people into the sport tony!!!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with going straight out in clubmans...its just like a trackday!!!.....gezzzzzz!!

[FROSTY]

yeah way to encourage people into the sport tony!!!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with going straight out in clubmans...its just like a trackday!!!.....gezzzzzz!!
Check the person asking the questions riding experience mr poos.
---Its person specific.

[cowpoos]

I don't think it really matters at all tony...clubmans is just like a trackday feild...as long as she can ride a bike and go around corners,use her brakes etc...whats the difference???

but anyway...

[Drunken Monkey]

I see what Frosty means poos, although your intentions are good, racing can get pretty serious and one bad first time is enough to scare someone off for life. Me, I'm scared off for other reasons. I don't feel safe without a roll cage, so track days are as close as I'm going to get to racing on a bike...

[Kickaha]

. and buckets is a matter of opinion...I don't really think its a worth while starting platform...but other do...it will teach you race craft no doubt...but I think its suited to the more mechanically minded and competent

just because you're not man enough for them,ever heard of Craig Shirrifs or Andy Bowell?

Buckets are a cheap way of going racing but up there they only run on Kart tracks, most bucket guys here tend to run more than one bike and enter other classes as well, as we run bigger tracks, cheap to buy, cheap to run and give you a taste of proper racing with little outlay



There is nothing wrong with going straight out in clubmans...its just like a trackday!!!.....gezzzzzz!!

they must ride like a bunch of poofters up there then, because clubmans is nothing like a track day here

[ArcherWC]

Me, I'm scared off for other reasons. I don't feel safe without a roll cage, so track days are as close as I'm going to get to racing on a bike...


You great big girly poof Alan

[placidfemme]

Thanks for the advice guys and for answering my questions.

I'll see when I can afford to book into a trackday next and will keep an eye open for race meets that are close by that I can make it to :) (Edit: Not to race... to watch... and help and learn)

[mynameis]

Hey PF,

I have a feeling this is what you are asking:

(Again I am not a racer and feel free to correct me (anyone) if I have slipped anywhere; I have looked into it a fair bit to get a good understanding around it myself! Confusing hehe)

There are basically two categories - Championship and Non Championship.

Championship Classes:

Production Superbikes - 750, 1000, 500, 2stroke. And this is where all the big boys race like Andrew Stroud and Shaun Harris.

600 Sport Production - 600, 750, 2 cly. Is very competitive and there are some good races here like Sam Smith.

Formula 3 - 650 V twin, 400 4stroke and 250 2 stroke mainly, but there are others. Is still quite competitive and there are some KB's on this.

Non Championship Classes :

Post classic pre 82

Post classic pre 89

Streetstock - as the name suggests, stock standard 150 2 stroke 250 4 strokes, you can't have any mods here. Complete stock standard.

Bucket - mainly 100cc or less and aimed at juniors a good introduction for them 13 to 19 year olds, but I don't think there is an age restriction but size would matter here :)

Formula 1 and Formula 2 - I don't know much about these, but I am guessing the rules are more open and bikes are same as from production superbikes and 600 sport production.

But I think the best thing to do would actually be to take your bike out and do atleast 3 track days Puke, Taupo and Manfield and you will get a good feel of it. It's an awesome environment to push yourself and perhaps time too, you'll know where you stand.

I think and feel even Formula 3 would be a competitive environment to start with and streetstock is just the perfect place to being. Bikes are just ordinary ZXR and CBR 250's no mods, simple and easy and cheap intro to racing, from there gauge your performance and move on. :)

Goodluck either way, hope that info was useful :p

[placidfemme]

Hey PF,

I have a feeling this is what you are asking:

(Again I am not a racer and feel free to correct me (anyone) if I have slipped anywhere; I have looked into it a fair bit to get a good understanding around it myself! Confusing hehe)

There are basically two categories - Championship and Non Championship.

Championship Classes:

Production Superbikes - 750, 1000, 500, 2stroke. And this is where all the big boys race like Andrew Stroud and Shaun Harris.

600 Sport Production - 600, 750, 2 cly. Is very competitive and there are some good races here like Sam Smith.

Formula 3 - 650 V twin, 400 4stroke and 250 2 stroke mainly, but there are others. Is still quite competitive and there are some KB's on this.

Non Championship Classes :

Post classic pre 82

Post classic pre 89

Streetstock - as the name suggests, stock standard 150 2 stroke 250 4 strokes, you can't have any mods here. Complete stock standard.

Bucket - mainly 100cc or less and aimed at juniors a good introduction for them 13 to 19 year olds, but I don't think there is an age restriction but size would matter here :)

Formula 1 and Formula 2 - I don't know much about these, but I am guessing the rules are more open and bikes are same as from production superbikes and 600 sport production.

But I think the best thing to do would actually be to take your bike out and do atleast 3 track days Puke, Taupo and Manfield and you will get a good feel of it. It's an awesome environment to push yourself and perhaps time too, you'll know where you stand.

I think and feel even Formula 3 would be a competitive environment to start with and streetstock is just the perfect place to being. Bikes are just ordinary ZXR and CBR 250's no mods, simple and easy and cheap intro to racing, from there gauge your performance and move on. :)

Goodluck either way, hope that info was useful :p


thanks for that... it does help a lot...

I don't think I'd do streetstock as my bike has mods (quarter turn throttle, braided brake lines, rev-limiter thingy and aftermarket headers/pipe).

I've got myself a second job now (thanks to un-named KBer) and so in the near future (a month or so) I should be back on an even keel and can then afford to go out and do some track days. :)

Oh... and thanks KiwiFruit for your offer, think I'd be a bit too nervous to take you up on it, but I'd still enjoy coming to watch you lot do your things :)

[Joni]

Yeah PF, if you were in CHCH I would recommend Streetstock 100% - there is a great programme going for younger/newer racers where you get taught race techniques and get a basic introduction to racing... its great! Done by a man called Peter Jones.

In fact if you have any questions that you think he might be able to answer, he is oyster on KB, I would pop him a pm if i was you and ask any questions you may have regarding the class... who to contact in AKL etc. :yes:

[placidfemme]

Yeah PF, if you were in CHCH I would recommend Streetstock 100% - there is a great programme going for younger/newer racers where you get taught race techniques and get a basic introduction to racing... its great! Done by a man called Peter Jones.

In fact if you have any questions that you think he might be able to answer, he is oyster on KB, I would pop him a pm if i was you and ask any questions you may have regarding the class... who to contact in AKL etc. :yes:

Kewl thanks :)

[Toast]

I've got a feeling that they do allow the odd mod on streetstock bikes, since an original exhaust can be rather hard to find for a 20 year old bike that's no longer produced. Not so sure about the brake lines, but I wouldn't imagine that the throttle tube would affect eligibility.

PM RoadRash or someone else who's had a bit of experience in the class, they might be able to tell you more.

[kickingzebra]

Braided lines etc would effect ellegibility, but two main points, it won't stop you racing, as the spirit of the class is to "run what you brung"
So, if someone gets all technical on it, you may have points stripped in the 250 streetstock class. Bah, that ain't the end of the world. Chances are it won't even be noticed. Your bike will still be elligible for F3 in any case. Won't win, but it is track time.

[Rashika]

Bucket - mainly 100cc or less and aimed at juniors a good introduction for them 13 to 19 year olds, but I don't think there is an age restriction but size would matter here :)
......
I think and feel even Formula 3 would be a competitive environment to start with and streetstock is just the perfect place to being. Bikes are just ordinary ZXR and CBR 250's no mods, simple and easy and cheap intro to racing, from there gauge your performance and move on. :)

Goodluck either way, hope that info was useful :p
just a couple of minor corrections...
yes F 3 is as competitive as any of the levels (it also includes Rs125s), point of fact so is F4 (buckets), and it is very misleading to say it is aimed at 13-19 year olds cos (down here at least) it very much isn't.
I think we have maybe 2 or 3 racers who are under 18, and we had 40odd people race in the battle of the buckets last year, most were over 30, there are a couple who are close to 60.
And it is VERY competitive... and a whole lota fun too I might add!! just cos you dont get above 120kms hour...usually...doen't mean you dont have some fun and close racing. And not a bad way to learn racing too, altho still have to beware of racers who aren't so careful of those around them, something that just experience teaches you...and I'm still getting there by a long shot ;)
good thing about buckets is that is is normally pretty CHEAP to get into, hence the reason so many old farts ;) botch something together and race it. They don't need all the latest new fangled gadgets to race a bike. Tyrewarmers??? WTF?

And one other little thing F4/Buckets is up to 125 2 stroke restricted (no water cooled), and 150 4 strokes (included FXRs now)

Clubmans can still be very fast (and with a lot of variation in bike sizes and thereforespeed), and downright scary when you are on a 25year old post classic trying to work out how it goes.
Whatever you do, trying a track day is a good start, before do the race thing.
:Punk: go chickie ;)

[Shaun]

My suggestion to you quite simply is forget RACING for a lil while.
Go out and do at least ONE or two track days just to get a feel for what its like to be on a racetrack.
A track day is a non pressure way of getting laps with little or no pressure on yourself.


I have not read al the replies in this tread, but totally agree with you Frosty.

[Shaun]

That would be a first:dodge:


Ha ha yuk you are correct

[diesel pig]

Having read your posts pf and seeing you have not been on a track I say do a track day like frosty said You don't have to do much to your bike for a track day and you get alot of no pressure laps. At the end of the track day ask yourself these questions:

1. Did you enjoy riding around the track?

2. What did you think about having other riders close and passing you?

If you enjoyed doing the track day keep doing them! If you didn't like having other riders close to you give them some room for them to pass you and enjoy yourself, remmeber no pressure! but if you thought to yourself gee if I brake later at this corner and power on early I can pass that joker in front of me. Give racing a go!

[steveyb]

Having read your posts pf and seeing you have not been on a track I say do a track day like frosty said You don't have to do much to your bike for a track day and you get alot of no pressure laps. At the end of the track day ask yourself these questions:

1. Did you enjoy riding around the track?

2. What did you think about having other riders close and passing you?

If you enjoyed doing the track day keep doing them! If you didn't like having other riders close to you give them some room for them to pass you and enjoy yourself, remmeber no pressure! but if you thought to yourself gee if I brake later at this corner and power on early I can pass that joker in front of me. Give racing a go!

I also agree with the sentiments expressed here. Trackdays is of course the best place to have a go on the track before jumping in to racing. If you like that, then sweet, get into it.
Classes? Well, yes Clubman is as you gather, for new and poorly experienced riders. At VMCC last season Clubman was split into two lap-time separated groups. However, the major problem with clubman is that 250's can be in the same race as 600's and 1000's and the speed differentials in straight lines can be quite startling, and dangerous. You need to remember that this is now RACING, not a trackday, so the attitude is, and should be, different. The same courtesy is not there, clubmans or not.
This then makes the VMCC Streetstock class look much more attractive for the new racer. At VMCC Streetstock 150 has evolved into Streetstock, which caters for 250cc 4 stroke machines as well. The performances of the 150cc 2 strokes and the 250's are very similar overall.
Don't worry too much about modifications, that is don't waste your money on them. Can you ride the bike as fast as it can go??? If not, then why do you want it to go faster? As SVS points out, the rider is 80 or more % of the equation.
VMCC will look forward to seeing you at Manfeild and Taupo over the winter.
Don't forget to buy that transponder.
Day licenses are available for 1st year riders only.

[JayRacer37]

just a couple of minor corrections...
yes F 3 is as competitive as any of the levels (it also includes Rs125s) ;)

Na mate, Rs125's are out as racing based motor, if they were I think you may see cross entering at the nationals....
This may be allowed at club level as a cross entry but doesn't fall under rules for class so don't anyone buy a 125 to go F3 racing eh....

Also, buket racing kicks ass as somewhere to find your feet, cheeep easy fun and lots of skills to be learnt, so long as there are events in your area.

[Rashika]

Na mate, Rs125's are out as racing based motor, if they were I think you may see cross entering at the nationals....
This may be allowed at club level as a cross entry but doesn't fall under rules for class so don't anyone buy a 125 to go F3 racing eh....

Also, buket racing kicks ass as somewhere to find your feet, cheeep easy fun and lots of skills to be learnt, so long as there are events in your area.

was talking in general terms (not champ racing), the 125's do go out in F3 (as does pretty much anything else that doesn't fit the other classes like motards) if there is no specific class for them and at most club days that is what happens. Makes for some interesting racing of the 125s vs the 650 SVs at times. :yes:

and yeap ditto for the bucket racing, lots of events down here for us... heaps of fun and cheap (ish) to get into, I want some more chicks out there with me! :Punk:

[JayRacer37]

was talking in general terms (not champ racing), the 125's do go out in F3 (as does pretty much anything else that doesn't fit the other classes like motards) if there is no specific class for them and at most club days that is what happens. Makes for some interesting racing of the 125s vs the 650 SVs at times. :yes:

and yeap ditto for the bucket racing, lots of events down here for us... heaps of fun and cheap (ish) to get into, I want some more chicks out there with me! :Punk:

Good stuff...motard Vs. SV650 Vs. RS125...what would you want to be on???
Unfortunatly we have had a bit of a lull in buket venues up in welly at the moment, but our organisers have found an awesome new place so more mecanical chaos coming soon...espesh once Ivan gets this mythical bucket going....:S

[Ivan]

Good stuff...motard Vs. SV650 Vs. RS125...what would you want to be on???
Unfortunatly we have had a bit of a lull in buket venues up in welly at the moment, but our organisers have found an awesome new place so more mecanical chaos coming soon...espesh once Ivan gets this mythical bucket going....:S

What Mechanical Chaos you guys blowing pistons trying to keep up or my bike shitting itself every 5 minutes


Umm Id prefer to be on a motard as well at least then you can run the bugger over on his 125 and cut across the grass to beat the SV

[Kickaha]

Na mate, Rs125's are out as racing based motor, if they were I think you may see cross entering at the nationals....
This may be allowed at club level as a cross entry but doesn't fall under rules for class so don't anyone buy a 125 to go F3 racing eh....


They used to be eligible but the other F3 guys packed a snot and the rules got changed, I think you can enter F3 on one down here at club days if it is pre 93

[JayRacer37]

What Mechanical Chaos you guys blowing pistons trying to keep up or my bike shitting itself every 5 minutes


Umm Id prefer to be on a motard as well at least then you can run the bugger over on his 125 and cut across the grass to beat the SV

yea u blowing shit up.
U'd have to catch them on the motard first buddy......

[Rashika]

Good stuff...motard Vs. SV650 Vs. RS125...what would you want to be on???
Unfortunatly we have had a bit of a lull in buket venues up in welly at the moment, but our organisers have found an awesome new place so more mecanical chaos coming soon...espesh once Ivan gets this mythical bucket going....:S

dunno about any of those really, tho the 125s look like a whole lotta fun :yes:
Think I'd rather try TonyB's duc out for size instead, now THAT would be an interesting experience... and luckily even eligible. ;)
saw a pic of the (hopefully) new welly bucket track, actually looks like it could be a good spot.

[Ivan]

Oh its official we have a championship starting this month

[steveyb]

Actually have forgotten, but I think 125 GP machines are excluded (sorry to use that word) from Superbike Lite at VMCC, but are eligible for Supersport.

[JayRacer37]

Actually have forgotten, but I think 125 GP machines are excluded (sorry to ues that word) from Superbike Lite at VMCC, but are eligible for Supersport.

Yeap ,thats what the deal was at VMCC last year. Slightly frustrating with 600 Vs. 125 closing speeds, seeing's as a 125 is still slower than a 400 or 650 in a straight line...Fortunatly only the quicker 125's took up this option.

[Ivan]

Im keen to do this as it is more track time, more track time is more chances to gain speed, more chances to gain speed = better lap times

But the 600 are tooooo fastin my opinion even if I am riding a fast lap it still wont be fast enough and could become chaos,so I back out of it


F3 is the closest field to carrying same sort of speeds


Or I could just build a Supermono RS125 CRF450 powered rocket

[White trash]

. And this is where all the big boys race like Andrew Stroud and Shaun Harris.



Never stood next to him have ya?

[steveyb]

Never stood next to him have ya?

Could Shaun Harris be accused of being a big boy??? Hmmmm.....:gob:

[mynameis]

Never stood next to him have ya?



Haha classic !! Probably that's one of the main reasons why he's so blady fast not freaken like me (us, some people here) haha !! Lolz.. I didn't mean it literally ;)

[Goblin]

Or I could just build a Supermono RS125 CRF450 powered rocketThat'd do it.:yes:

[Shaun]

Could Shaun Harris be accused of being a big boy??? Hmmmm.....:gob:

My wife thinks so when I am on my back