The good oil

[kerryg]

I see that the subject of oil has come up before, as you'd expect, but I have a question that doesn't seem to have been covered in earlier threads.

I have a friend with a GSXR1100J Suzuki with a big bore kit, cams etc etc putting out (estimated) around 130~140 rwhp. These are of course oil and air cooled, not water cooled. It's running good quality motorbike specific 10/40 mineral oil now. Given that it's putting out extra HP (and so generating extra heat) and that the oil is also performing a cooling function I wonder whether it would be better to run a semi-synthetic or fully synthetic instead of straight mineral, and would welcome advice from any members with knowledge to share. Recommendations of oil viscosities, brands etc would be great. The engine has 70000kms on it but had all the engine work done about 5000kms ago so. It's a bike for weekend rides and the odd commute and he has no plans to race it so far.

[pete376403]

Oooh, an OIL thread. Could be passionate. Dino versus synthetic, motorcycle versus car, sewing machine oil versus gun oil. (did someone mention guns?)

BTW the oil has ALWAYS been providing a cooling function. Drummed into my head during the apprenticeship - the five functions of oil - cleans, cools, seals, prevents corrosion and lubricates.

[Blakamin]

Oooh, an OIL thread. Could be passionate. Dino versus synthetic, motorcycle versus car, sewing machine oil versus gun oil. (did someone mention guns?)

BTW the oil has ALWAYS been providing a cooling function. Drummed into my head during the apprenticeship - the five functions of oil - cleans, cools, seals, prevents corrosion and lubricates.


Cant wait to hear more... coming up to an oil change meself :)



mmm :Offtopic:
need to know more about the Elbonian Zorch....

[Cajun]

I would stick to mineral or semi, if is running mineral you go to fully synth, it be to thin for it. If he hasn't had any problems with mineral and happy with it stick with it.

And for oil brands i think its really down to personal prefence, for the wifes vtr1000f i put castrol, they sponser honda race bikes, so i put in it nice and simple, in my gsxr600 local suzuki dealer uses shell and also nz suzki team sponsered and use shell so that will do me. Its just something so i always know what brand is gonna go in the bike, always be same brand and same type of oil

[vifferman]

Dunno that you'll get a definitive answer on this. FWIW, this thread got thrashed and rehashed on the US VFR list multitudinous times. There was a guy on there (monicker of "Oil Guy") who used to work for an oil company for a bazillion years, and his advice was that you couldn't beat Mobil Delvac (diesel fleet oil) or Shell Rotella (dunno what it's marketed as here).
Testing I've read indicates that the synthetic and semi-synth degrades a bit less than some mineral oils, but I think the consensus was that mineral oil changed frequently was better value and performance for your buck than more expensive synthetics.
Only thing to stay clear of for your bike is some of the later car oils with 'friction modifiers' (molybdenum compounds etc.) that cause clutch slippage. Mind you on some bikes, the synthetics can do that too. Also on older bikes, the synths can be too skinny and cause leaks or oil burning.
I stick to Motul 5100 15W-50 semi synth, because I like the smell....

[kerryg]

Oooh, an OIL thread. Could be passionate. Dino versus synthetic, motorcycle versus car, sewing machine oil versus gun oil. (did someone mention guns?)

BTW the oil has ALWAYS been providing a cooling function. Drummed into my head during the apprenticeship - the five functions of oil - cleans, cools, seals, prevents corrosion and lubricates.

Hey Pete, fair enough about the cooling function of oil but I guess my point is these SACS engines rely on the oil to cool the engine in a way, and to an extent, that neither the purely air-cooled nor the water-cooled engines did at the time. It might be a complete red herring when it comes to oil selection, but as this bike is generating extra power (and so extra heat) I thought it might be worth throwing into the pot....

[Blakamin]

Dunno that you'll get a definitive answer on this. FWIW, this thread got thrashed and rehashed on the US VFR list multitudinous times. There was a guy on there (monicker of "Oil Guy") who used to work for an oil company for a bazillion years, and his advice was that you couldn't beat Mobil Delvac (diesel fleet oil) or Shell Rotella (dunno what it's marketed as here).

Only thing to stay clear of for your bike is some of the later car oils with 'friction modifiers' (molybdenum compounds etc.) that cause clutch slippage. Mind you on some bikes, the synthetics can do that too. Also on older bikes, the synths can be too skinny and cause leaks or oil burning.
I stick to Motul 5100 15W-50 semi synth, because I like the smell....

that shell stuff is a tractor oil, i think!

I read that theres no diff between later cars oils and bike oils with a wet clutch, it was a myth??????

buggered if i know....just wanna keep my bike happy (cheaply)

[Motu]

eeehh,by gum,an oil thread - better than steering geometry or religion any day.

Yep,oil for heat transfer,it's always doing it,no matter how the motor is cooled,and thinner is better for heat transfer,gets the oil moving around,shifting heat outta one thing and into another.I'm a fan of Silkolene full synthetics,the best you can get I reckon - but in reality any crap will do,just change it as often as possible.

[Lou Girardin]

I've used a few sythetics over the years, in cars and bikes. I think the Mobil Racing 4T offers the best value for money, passes various tests with flying colours and has always felt good in engine/gearbox units, whereas gear shifting deteriorates rapidly with some other brands. Use 10/40 for newer engines or 15/50 if it's got a few miles up.

[geoffm]

THe GSXRs are pretty hard on oil, sqirting it throughjets and stuff, so you want a good oil. Main thing is to change it regularly.
Mobil 1 is recommended for RG500s to do wonders for their crap dragging clutches. Spendy though - you can buy 2x as much mineral oil for the same $$, which would probably give you the same result.
Geoff

[speedpro]

I originally used Castrol R or RS but then went to Mobil 1. The only time I used anything else was "running-in" the turbo and when I pulled it down to check stuff I found the gudgeon pins had a bit of galling. Went back to Mobil 1 and been fine ever since. This in a big old clunky Kawasaki Z1 engine. Mobil 1 was actually reccommended to me by an engineer from another oil company when I was enquiring about what to use in an engine that gets VERY very hot.

[カワサキキド]

firestormer, Give me convenience or give me death or Fresh fruit for rotten vegetables?

[pete376403]

Slick 50!!! Motor-Up!!! (just stirring, now)

Can't beat the smell of Castrol R40 - mmmm, bean oil. It's bloody good lubricant, but forms sticky gummy residue if left for any time. Best for race engines that are pulled apart after each meeting. F*cking expensive, too.

[Motu]

Silkolene,and others I presume,it's just I was on the Silkolene site the other day - do a castor/synthetic mix that solves the gumming issue with castor oil,all the advantages plus the smell! If I had a dedicated race bike I be tempted to use it.

[kerryg]

OK...well now I'm just confused.....................

Here's what I get from the various postings: use any old oil but change it often, mineral or semi-synthetic, use synthetic, use Mobil 1, use Silkolene......geez, I don't know!!! I am thinking in the middle: semi-synthetic, say 15-50 (since older bike with higher kms), reputable dedicated motorcycle oil, changing frequently. That should cover all the bases. What do ya reckon?

[vifferman]

OK...well now I'm just confused.....................

Here's what I get from the various postings: use any old oil but change it often, mineral or semi-synthetic, use synthetic, use Mobil 1, use Silkolene......geez, I don't know!!! I am thinking in the middle: semi-synthetic, say 15-50 (since older bike with higher kms), reputable dedicated motorcycle oil, changing frequently. That should cover all the bases. What do ya reckon?Yeah, cover all the bases, and mix up a 'home brew' of Mobil1, Silkolene, mineral, synthetic and semi-synthetic, change it weekly, and you should be right!
Better still, weld a 20L can to the bike, and run a total-loss lubrication system! It can't get hot if it doesn't stay in the engine long.:blink:

[jrandom]

Yeah, cover all the bases, and mix up a 'home brew' of Mobil1, Silkolene, mineral, synthetic and semi-synthetic, change it weekly, and you should be right!

I think he should use Militec.

[vifferman]

I think he should use Militec.Is that some miltary-spec erl, like their J8 or JP8 (or whateverthehellitis) fuel?
I read last year that the US military now had all their vehicles (including converted Kawasaki 'dual sports' bikes) able to run on this. (They should convert all their vehicles to run on used takeaway fryer grease...)

By the way - I noticed the other day when spraying CRC5-56 or whateverthehellitis all over the place that it had "conforms to US Military spec blah blah and Aus mil spec blather blather" on the can. wow. )

[jrandom]

Is that some miltary-spec erl, like their J8 or JP8 (or whateverthehellitis) fuel?
I read last year that the US military now had all their vehicles (including converted Kawasaki 'dual sports' bikes) able to run on this. (They should convert all their vehicles to run on used takeaway fryer grease...)

By the way - I noticed the other day when spraying CRC5-56 or whateverthehellitis all over the place that it had "conforms to US Military spec blah blah and Aus mil spec blather blather" on the can. wow. )

Militec's just a synthetic lube. Good for firearms. Some merkin types prefer it to standard CLP. I use it on my guns now, but then my requirements aren't exactly strenuous. It doesn't protect from rust very well, but squirting a couple of drops into the action of anything that's not cycling well is usually a guaranteed fix.

I have *no* idea what would happen if you put it in an engine. Probably nothing good. I was just being flippant.

I really want one of those converted military diesel Kawasakis, though.

[Edit: OK, the Militec website recommends dumping it into primary engine lubricant. The fact that enough of it to fill a bike engine would probably cost several hundred dollars indicates that it might not have been intended for use *as* a primary lubricant, though.]

[kerryg]

You buggers are no help............. :doh:

[vifferman]

You buggers are no help............. :doh:Sorry, Dude. Go to any forum, and you'll find flame wars about this topic, as it seems to be an entirely subjective opinion as to what is good / not good.
Apart from the cheapies or recycled oil, I think most oils are pretty good now. But try doing a Google on this. Here's what I found by searching on "motorcycle oil breakdown tests":
http://pacific.telebyte.com/allanw/binder/info/oilfaq.html

http://www.eric-gorr.com/techarticles/mototech_june_1999.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ia/z/FZ1oilposts.htm

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html (this is a goodun)

http://www.airheads.org/index.php?Technical%20Tips+Oil%20Discussion

If you do a search yourself, avoid all the "tests" by the oil companies themselves, or peple associated with them, like Amsoil.

[FROSTY]

Ill stick to motul semi synthetic. As much as anything because I like the smell as it heats up.

[Motu]

You buggers are no help............. :doh:


Everyones too scared to come out and say what to do cause some expert will come out of the woodwork rubbishing them and providing 4 websites proving their shit is really crap to back up their claim.People like me who are anal about oil only use the best and swear by it - but in reality,and I'm in a postion to back this up - nothing will make your engine last longer than regular oil changes with a supermarket oil.In 35 yrs of pulling engines apart the cleanest I've ever seen was a 335,000km Telstar with pistons still shiny like new,crank and rods just clean grey cast iron - ex Telecom,regular maintenance with BP Viso 3000.Oil won't make your engine last longer - all the high mileage engines are run non stop,preferably at constant speed....going Auck/Wellington day in day out your motor will last 3 times as long as a commuter in city traffic.

[vifferman]

Oil won't make your engine last longer - all the high mileage engines are run non stop,preferably at constant speed....going Auck/Wellington day in day out your motor will last 3 times as long as a commuter in city traffic.The very reason we had few qualms buying a high-mileage Pajero a few years ago, that had been driven back and forth between Nelson and Christchurch, clocking up 100,00km in less than 2 years. The motor was still in reasonable knick when we sold it with 250,000 on the odometer, but the mileage did take a toll on the suspension, steering, and drivetrain.

[What?]

- nothing will make your engine last longer than regular oil changes ...
Egg zucking factly.

[gav]

Back when I was working in a Honda bike shop I read a report that had been comissioned by Blue Wing Honda where oil had been tested by a lab for wear etc, bearing in mind that at the time all the Honda warranty books had Castrol adverts on them the top performing oils were Mobil1 fully synthetic m/c oil and Motul 300V.
('Course if its for a Honda you need REPSOL oil preferrably with free stickers :msn-wink: )