Tis a sad world when herbal medicine is illegal

[u4ea]

here is a link I came across.....seems things aren't too different in this country..I chose pot over voltaren when I had clots..http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/14/med.marijuana.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[DMNTD]

...I chose pot over voltaren...
As did I,it's just sad when the ignorant get all high and mighty claiming that they are saving humanity by introducing ridiculous bollix when all they are doing is making certain people suffer.
If ignorance was bless....they'd be orgasmic!

[Krusti]

It's a funny old world eh?

It's OK for me to be physically addicted to prescription, morhpine based painkillers. Been on them for 4 years. All legal.

Have a puff on something else......locked up criminal conviction!

[Drum]

Voltaren for the back, Mary Jane for the soul.

Legalize it!

[Nasty]

I never knew voltarin was used for clots .. I use to all the time for inflamations ... e.g. swellings ... migranes etc. Prefer that over pot anytime .. I maintain full control and know the dosage which is safest .. with pot ... so much can go wrong ... but what would I know ;)

[The_Dover]

As did I,it's just sad when the ignorant get all high ....

if they all got high then maybe they'd change their tune bro!

[Str8 Jacket]

Voltaren for the back, Mary Jane for the soul.

Legalize it!

Amen bruva! :sunny:

[Steam]

Ain't no money in Herbal and Traditional Medicine, so Big Pharma is out to ban a sector of the market that is cutting into their profits. If you examine the lobby groups behind the initiative, it's the big multinational pharmeceutical companies who are all for it. Capitalism sucks.

[DMNTD]

I never knew voltarin was used for clots .. I use to all the time for inflamations ... e.g. swellings ... migranes etc. Prefer that over pot anytime .. I maintain full control and know the dosage which is safest .. with pot ... so much can go wrong ... but what would I know ;)

I don't know your back ground so won't assume re what you would know.
What i do know from experience is that prolonged use of Voltaren(sp) DOES screw your stomach lining...then again,over use of pot can cause issues too,obviously :done:
I chose to use a minimal amount of pot which worked well for me.
BTW... I don't smoke weed nowdays

[Nasty]

I don't know your back ground so won't assume re what you would know.
What i do know from experience is that prolonged use of Voltaren(sp) DOES screw your stomach lining...then again,over use of pot can cause issues too,obviously :done:
I chose to use a minimal amount of pot which worked well for me.
BTW... I don't smoke weed nowdays

I know you don't know my backgroun or medical history .... or family history .. I guess after using voltarin for the past 15 years on and off and still having a stomach lining that is fine I am a lucky one ... but then again .. I use stuff when I need it and not as prescribed e.g. three times a day every day.

I chose not to use pot for extremely good reasons which are not needed here ... but again that is a choice and for me a good one ... like the voltarin right place right time right information ...

PS if ever on voltarin or other stomach irritating drugs .. .take drug then take some yoghurt with acidophilus (sp) ... or drink some milk ... this helps to reline the stomach with the good bugs that the voltarin kills :)

[Toaster]

I'll just stick to coffee thanks. I like my brain in one piece.

Been helping a friend get over a drug addiction - pot.... she now has her memory back and feels a great deal more alert. Maybe something to think about guys.

[Ixion]

You are all aware of the proposed sell out by Dear Leader and Annette King of NZ control over our pharmaceutical and (more importantly) herbal and dietary supplement laws ?

The net effect of which will be , in practice, to force almost all vitamin mineral and herbal products off the market, except for a few token multi-vitmain type presentation (surprisingly, from the big multinationals :brick:) , with levels of active substance so low as to be meaningless.

Further info here (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4008872a10.html)and here (http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/other10593.html)

One of the very things I agree with the tree hugger over.

[DMNTD]

PS if ever on voltarin or other stomach irritating drugs .. .take drug then take some yoghurt with acidophilus (sp) ... or drink some milk ... this helps to reline the stomach with the good bugs that the voltarin kills :)

That right there is good advice :yes:

[Str8 Jacket]

Been helping a friend get over a drug addiction - pot.... she now has her memory back and feels a great deal more alert. Maybe something to think about guys.

Everyones different mate, some people that I know are actually better off for smoking the 'erb. Just cause people smoke weed doesnt make (all of) them addicts. But we are talking about medicinal use here, not addictions after all. I would rather put "natural" drugs in my system than "artificial" ones. Unfortunately im having a few health issues ATM and I have to be on "artificial" drugs. Those drugs give me nausea and stomach cramps and severe mood swings all symptoms that can be cured by weed. I suppose its a vicious cycle in a way.....

[Ixion]

Hemp used to be in the Pharmacopaeia. Until 1932 in fact (and the Codex , still later). It was only banned for medicinal use in the UK in 1975

That it does have genuine medicinal uses is uncontestable (I have never used it myself).



The British Pharmaceutical Codex.
Published by direction of the Council of the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain, 1911.

0
CANNABIS INDICA, B.P.
INDIAN HEMP.

Other tomes

Indian hemp (Indian Cannabis, U.S.P.) consists of the dried flowering or fruiting tops of the pistillate plant of Cannabis sativa, Linn. (N.O. Urticaceae), grown in India. It is also official in the U.S.P. The hemp plant is an annual dioecious herb, indigenous to Central India and Western Asia. When grown in tropical countries the pistillate plant produces an oleoresinous secretion, to which the physiological action of the drug is due. This secretion is formed in stalked glands, which are particularly abundant on the upper leaves and bracts, to increase the number of which the plants are carefully pruned. The staminate plants are eradicated before they arrive at maturity, but the pistillate plants produce a few staminate flowers, which fertilise many of the plants. The tops are collected, allowed to wilt, and pressed by treading with the feet into flattened masses, which remain more or less compacted together by the adhesive resinous secretion. In this form the drug is exported from Bombay, and known commercially as guaza. A more active variety is the Bengal drug, which is termed ganjah. This is in smaller, shorter masses which are rounded instead of flattened, and hence sometimes called round ganjah. It is exported from Calcutta, but such as reaches this country is re-exported, and practically none is offered on the market. It is largely consumed in India, but rapidly deteriorates in activity. In addition to the ganjah (or guaza) the larger leaves of the plant are also collected, and form, when dried, "bhang" or "hashish"; this is generally consumed by making it into a confection or drink. Sometimes the plants are beaten on to cloths, and the resin which adheres to them collected; this is known as charas or churrus, and like ganjah, is commonly smoked. It is on account of the possible separation of the resin that the British Pharmacopoeia specifies the drug "from which the resin has not been removed." Preparations are most active when made from an extract prepared in India from the fresh drug, and exported in sealed tubes. Hemp tops grown in more temperate climates have been offered in place of Indian hemp, but may be distinguished by their brighter colour and less resinous nature. Indian hemp occurs in rough, flattened, brownish-green masses, from 5 to 30 centimetres long, consisting of the branched upper part of the stem, bearing leaves and pistillate flowers or fruits matted together.

Constituents.—The narcotic effect of Indian hemp appears to be produced by the resinous secretion of the glands. This resin has been obtained as a soft, brown substance (cannabinone), the chief constituent of which is cannabinol, C21H30O2. This compound has been obtained from charas in the form of a viscid, reddish oil, possessing a powerful narcotic action, but resinifying and becoming less active on exposure to the air; cannabinol may also be obtained from hashish, etc. In addition to the resin and its important constituent cannabinol, Indian hemp also contains fat, wax, the alkaloid choline, and traces of volatile oil. The names cannabin (a resinoid), cannabene, cannabine (an alleged alkaloid), and cannabindon have been applied to different impure substances obtained from Indian hemp; the name cannabinine has been applied to a volatile, liquid alkaloid, resembling nicotine in odour, which is said to have been extracted from the drug in minute quantity. Indian hemp yields from 10 to 18 per cent. of substances soluble in alcohol, and leaves, when incinerated, about 15 per cent. of ash. Hemp resin of different seasons and from different districts contains different amounts of cannabinol; the attempt has therefore been made to standardise preparations of Indian hemp, by determination of the amount of cannabinol and by experiments on animals.

Action and Uses.—Indian hemp acts chiefly on the central nervous system. It first produces excitement with hallucinations, a feeling of happiness and indifference to surroundings, this stage being followed by deep sleep. The hallucinations include inability to estimate time and space. In the East the hemp is smoked and almost immediately produces symptoms of pleasurable excitement, followed by depression and lethargy. It is used as an anodyne sedative or hypnotic, in mania, spasmodic coughs, phthisis, asthma, acute neuralgia, dysmenorrhoea, and tetanus. It does not produce constipation nor loss of appetite. An alcoholic extract of Indian hemp is the basis of medicinal preparations of this drug, and from it the tincture is prepared. The extract is usually administered in pills, which may be massed with lycopodium or powdered liquorice. Tincture of Indian hemp is a constituent of, and gives the green colour to, compound tincture of chloroform and morphine. Indian hemp is sometimes smoked by the asthmatic. Used thus, its action is more rapid than when taken internally. In cases of poisoning, the stomach should be evacuated, and the usual methods adopted to prevent collapse and respiratory failure.
PREPARATIONS.

Extractum Cannabis Indicae, B.P.—EXTRACT OF INDIAN HEMP.
Exhaust Indian hemp, in coarse powder, with alcohol, by percolation, and evaporate the percolate to form a soft extract. Commercial extracts of Indian hemp vary considerably, containing, with the green ether-soluble substance, indefinite amounts of a brown extractive insoluble in ether. Some specimens contain a considerable amount of residue insoluble in alcohol; this should not exceed 2 per cent. The extract deteriorates on keeping owing to slow oxidation; it should be stored in small full jars hermetically sealed, or better, in collapsible tubes from which small quantities can be easily weighed. Dose.—15 to 60 milligrams (1/4 to 1 grain).
Extractum Cannabis Indicae, U.S.P.—EXTRACT OF INDIAN CANNABIS.
Indian cannabis, in No. 20 powder, 100; alcohol (95 per cent.), a sufficient quantity. Average dose.—1 centigram (1/5 grain).
Fluidextractum Cannabis Indicae, U.S.P.—FLUIDEXTRACT OF INDIAN CANNABIS.
Indian cannabis, in No. 30 powder, 100; alcohol (95 per cent.), sufficient to produce 100. Average dose.—5 centimils (0.05 milliliters) (1 minim).
Tinctura Cannabis Indicae, B.P.—TINCTURE OF INDIAN HEMP.
Extract of Indian hemp, 5; alcohol, sufficient to produce 100. Add the extract to 90 of the alcohol, dissolve, filter if necessary, and add sufficient alcohol to make up to the required volume. This tincture should be preserved in closely-stoppered bottles and kept in a dark place. Mixtures containing tincture of Indian hemp require the addition of one-eighth of their bulk of mucilage of gum acacia. The mucilage should be diluted with twice its bulk of water and the tincture—measured in a dry measure—added in successive small portions, shaking after each addition. Dose.—3 to 10 decimils (0.3 to 1. milliliters) (5 to 15 minims).
Tinctura Cannabis Indicae, U.S.P.—TINCTURE OF INDIAN CANNABIS.
Indian cannabis, in No. 40 powder, 10; alcohol (95 per cent.), sufficient to produce 100. Average dose.—6 decimils (0.6 milliliters) (10 minims).

0

CANNABINAE TANNAS.
CANNABINE TANNATE.

Cannabine tannate is a substance prepared commercially by distilling Indian hemp with steam to deprive it of its volatile oil, extracting with water, precipitating the aqueous extract with lead acetate, decomposing this with hydrogen sulphide and combining the cannabine thus set free with tannic acid; or the aqueous extract may be directly precipitated with tannic acid. It is assumed to be the salt of an alkaloid, but the dark-brown viscid mass to which the name cannabine is applied does not appear to be a pure substance. Cannabine tannate occurs in the form of a brownish powder, having a somewhat bitter and strongly astringent taste, and a not unpleasant odour. It should dissolve without residue in 10 parts of alcohol containing 10 per cent. of hydrochloric acid, and should be free from narcotic odour.

Sparingly soluble in water, alcohol, or ether; soluble in acidified alcohol, or in water made alkaline.

Action and Uses.—Cannabine tannate is used as a hypnotic in nervous insomnia, also in dysmenorrhoea and menorrhagia, and is said to be free from the intoxicating properties of Cannabis Indica. Its activity varies very greatly, but it is generally of little value, often being quite inert. It is usually administered in pills, massed with glycerin of tragacanth, or in cachets; it may be dissolved in sal volatile and water, but has a disagreeable astringent taste.

Dose.—2 1/2 to 5 decigrams (4 to 8 grains).

0

[jrandom]

Been helping a friend get over a drug addiction - pot.... she now has her memory back and feels a great deal more alert.

Having a friend who's a recovering alcoholic doesn't mean that drinking a few pints now and then is a bad idea. And if your mate was smoking weed every day, I'm not fucking surprised she feels more alert off it. Don't use that fact to range yourself alongside the prohibitionists.

And don't forget that dependence on cannabis is primarily psychological. There's not really any such thing as physical withdrawal from THC, as there is from alcohol, caffeine and opiates. On that basis, it's safer.

I've been through caffeine withdrawal and then got back on. It's a socially acceptable drug, but I don't make any bones about the fact that I'm dependant on it to function and that I get *very* sick for a week or more if it's withheld.

I know plenty who smoke cannabis, but nobody who has been significantly harmed by it in any way. That's as opposed to the people I know whose lives have been destroyed by methamphetamine and/or alcohol.

The prohibition of cannabis is, in many ways, analogous to the stalling of research into anabolic steroids in the 1950s/60s. A potentially beneficial body of pharmaceuticals, completely ignored due to foolish political fearmongering.

[DMNTD]

Hemp used to be in the Pharmacopaeia. Until 1932 in fact (and the Codex , still later). It was only banned for medicinal use in the UK in 1975

That it does have genuine medicinal uses is incontestable .

Isn't it a pity that the powers that be refuse to acknowledge this but instead fill us with chalk and crap? Guess there's more money in it :mellow:

[Toaster]

Women and work give me nausea and stomach cramps and severe mood swings.

[Str8 Jacket]

Women and work give me nausea and stomach cramps and severe mood swings.

Yes, I have these problems too.

[u4ea]

Women and work give me nausea and stomach cramps and severe mood swings.


my point to that is my gp said to take magnesium and b6..I found a combination supplement 'bio magnesuim'(blackmores)and is it subsidised????????NO..$16.60 ...a dam seed in the ground is free but I risk getting sent to prison for some mild pain releif and mood mellower......oh and valium is addictive and cant be combined with my other pain releivers so what do you do for pms Toaster????

[Lias]

Problem is that 99% of pot use ISNT medicinal, and where they have introduced medicinal pot, people are lieing through their teeth to get prescriptions just to get high on.

[Str8 Jacket]

Problem is that 99% of pot use ISNT medicinal, and where they have introduced medicinal pot, people are lieing through their teeth to get prescriptions just to get high on.

Still not really seeing a problem. People pack into pubs everyday and smoke and drink there lives away. I know its not the same thing but I just think people should be able to make there own opinions as to what they want to put in their bodies.....

[jrandom]

Problem is that 99% of pot use ISNT medicinal, and where they have introduced medicinal pot, people are lieing through their teeth to get prescriptions just to get high on.

Don't pretend to be shocked. If that was the only way of getting alcohol or caffeine, exactly the same thing would happen.

'Medicinal use only' really is a pointless half-measure. We should legalise the shit already and just move on.

If hell freezes over and the ALCP gets a 5% party vote next election, it'll happen, because they'll sell their souls to whichever major party they can pair up with in exchange for cannabis legalisation.

Personally, I'm tempted to let the reds and blues fight it out on their own, and use my party vote to support a single sensible policy. If every pothead in the country did the same, we'd have legalisation by lunchtime.

[placidfemme]

Still not really seeing a problem. People pack into pubs everyday and smoke and drink there lives away. I know its not the same thing but I just think people should be able to make there own opinions as to what they want to put in their bodies.....

Agreed, there are worse (and legal) things that people can put into thier bodies.

I have a lot of stoner mates who use it recreationally, and they still live productive lives and on the other hand I have other mates who drink by the dozen and it affects so many aspects of thier life (too hungover to go to work, too hungover to spend time with the kids so they put them infront of the tv etc).

I'd choose something natural over something man made anyday

[Pwalo]

Is this about herbal remedies or legalising cannabis?

[jrandom]

Is this about herbal remedies or legalising cannabis?

Legalising cannabis.

In fact, I'm going to go make a poll on the subject. It'll be interesting.

[Lias]

Still not really seeing a problem. People pack into pubs everyday and smoke and drink there lives away. I know its not the same thing but I just think people should be able to make there own opinions as to what they want to put in their bodies.....

I have known a few people who let pot control (and ruin their lives) same as alchoholics. There will always be a percentage that abuse things, why legalise any more substances for abuse.

The only reason I'd support legalising pot is to tax the ever loving snot out of it and cut the cash crop for the gangs.

[Str8 Jacket]

I have known a few people who let pot control (and ruin their lives) same as alchoholics. There will always be a percentage that abuse things, why legalise any more substances for abuse.

The only reason I'd support legalising pot is to tax the ever loving snot out of it and cut the cash crop for the gangs.

Yeah, yeah same same. At the end of the day no one likes being told what they can and cant do. I just think that if people are ill why are we pumping shit loads of chemicals into them if something natural like cannibis would help and THEY would prefer to put that into their bodies?

[mstriumph]

irrespective of any official reason stated, normally, when the government regulates or restricts use or distribution of something there's a financial/revenue consideration underpinning it .........

in all honesty, they'd prolly outlaw homegrown veggies if they could get away with it, let alone something useable as a recreational drug .............

a 'good' government is one that would permit people most control over their own affairs ...... pity none of us is ever likely to encounter such

[u4ea]

Is this about herbal remedies or legalising cannabis?


it goes hand in hand in my mind!!!
alchahol is legal(am goin on the wagon as my binge drinking gives me week long hanovers..too much cactus in the taquilla)
methadone is legal(supposedly for recovering junkies who only use it as their next fix..lest we forget the divine poppy)
tobacco is legal(so far so good,wheres my papers)
prostitution is legal(ok not a herb but still deals go on)
and ooooooooo thank god for caffine!!!!!

[Toaster]

......oh and valium is addictive and cant be combined with my other pain releivers so what do you do for pms Toaster????

Actually, nothing if I can help it - maybe panadol/nurofen if I have to. I just put up with pain if and when it happens. I believe me, I have had my share of pain through various accidents/injuries. massive back pain for years - exercise and careful management and a lot of gritted teeth got me through.

[Toaster]

Yes, I have these problems too.

At the moment, I am getting a great deal from both.... I need to go for a run and blow off steam.

[jrandom]

The only reason I'd support legalising pot is to tax the ever loving snot out of it and cut the cash crop for the gangs.

So go vote on my poll (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=47476), then.

It needs contributions from the rabid tag-ends of the social spectrum to be a valid representation.

;)

[Pwalo]

Yeah, yeah same same. At the end of the day no one likes being told what they can and cant do. I just think that if people are ill why are we pumping shit loads of chemicals into them if something natural like cannibis would help and THEY would prefer to put that into their bodies?

The only trouble is that that is not a logical argument. All plants, and animals are made up of various combinations of chemicals.

I'm afraid just because something is 'natural' does not of itself make it better or healthier. Trying ingesting a reasonable amount of hemlock. It's natural and will cure all your ills.

Sarcasm aside at the end of the day you have to take responsibility for what you put in your body. Personally I don't smoke, drink much, or take recreational pharmacueticals: but it's fun watching people who do.

I don't support making cannabis legal. I think it's a hangover form my hippy hating youth.

[Goblin]

.... I need to go for a run and blow off steam.:laugh: Im sure steam will be pleased about that.

[onearmedbandit]

Don`t be sucked in by the `rather use something natural than manmade` arguement, as that doesn`t hold water 100%. Would you use hemlock (as pointed out in a post above) or poisonous ivy? In saying that due to my injury I was on morphine, codine, voltaren and a few others everyday for 4yrs after my accident. Horrible horrible shit. Put me to sleep during the day, felt disconnected from reality, couldn`t concentrate, etc. And my doctor wanted to up the dosage of morphine to combat the pain, along with warning me that the combination of tegratol and voltaren had bad consequences for my health. Well I dumped all them and instead have a smoke. No side effects, led a productive life, got promoted at work, got married, paid my way, etc. I know where I`d rather be.

[Krusti]

I will start a thread one day regarding pain management but for now....

What do you do? I have taken some time to come to terms with the fact that I will have chronic pain for the rest of my life. Have been in denial and believing that I will get better.

I would love to quit the pills I am on but easier said than done. I don't smoke any thing for pain relief but if cannabis was allowed for pain relief, even through a Dr, then I would probably use it.

Saying tough it out is all very well but when you are faced with another 30? years of it then, wow what fun.

All very well saying just smoke it any way but what happens when an employment drug test is required? Having said that, I would probably fail one now. :angry:

Just makes me laugh that it is OK for me to be an addict. As long as it is to a socially accepted sustance.:done: for now.

[Disco Dan]

All very well saying just smoke it any way but what happens when an employment drug test is required? Having said that, I would probably fail one now. :angry:

Just makes me laugh that it is OK for me to be an addict. As long as it is to a socially accepted sustance.:done: for now.

It stays in your system for approx 6 months.

There are ways around drug tests though. You can buy small viles of powder that you add to your urine that fool the test.

[onearmedbandit]

I will start a thread one day regarding pain management but for now....

What do you do? I have taken some time to come to terms with the fact that I will have chronic pain for the rest of my life. Have been in denial and believing that I will get better.

.

I don`t know how bad your pain is, so it`s very hard for me to comment. I have 24hr a day pain, seven days a week. In other words, in the last 10yrs of my life I have lived with chronic pain. On a scale from 1-10, it`s never lower than a six, and very often is around seven to eight. At least 30% of the time it`s at ten, 10% of the time it`s off the scale. During a typical day I will experience at least 150 spasms of pain that are off the scale, usually lasting for between two seconds through to 60 seconds.My pain threshold has risen over the years, small things like burns, cuts etc I just don`t notice. How I control it is entirely mental. I`m thankful for everything I have, including the pain. I realised a long time ago that there as no escaping it, so instead of letting it hold me back or work against me, I had to take control and make it work for me. So when I`m under attack from the pain I fight back. I muster all my physical and mental energy, and utilise the pain to take me to a higher place. It`s not easy, and it`s hard to explain how it works. My only fear is that as I get older I might not posess the mental strength to do it any longer, but I`m strong of mind so I keep on going. Pain is a major part f my life now, I`ve accepted that. It was the first step for me towards carrying on. So when I feel swamped with anything in life, the pain snaps me back and gives me strength. Like I said, it`s hard to describe.

Marijuana doesn`t really lessen the pain as such, it numbs it a little but what it does is it allows me to distance myself from the intensity of it. It`s still there, but I can kind of step back from it. I would dearly love for the pain to be no more, but in a way I know I`d miss it. It has become my companion, it knows me well and I know it.

[Pwalo]

Don`t be sucked in by the `rather use something natural than manmade` arguement, as that doesn`t hold water 100%. Would you use hemlock (as pointed out in a post above) or poisonous ivy? In saying that due to my injury I was on morphine, codine, voltaren and a few others everyday for 4yrs after my accident. Horrible horrible shit. Put me to sleep during the day, felt disconnected from reality, couldn`t concentrate, etc. And my doctor wanted to up the dosage of morphine to combat the pain, along with warning me that the combination of tegratol and voltaren had bad consequences for my health. Well I dumped all them and instead have a smoke. No side effects, led a productive life, got promoted at work, got married, paid my way, etc. I know where I`d rather be.

You and Krusti have my sympathies. I was bloody lucky after my accident to only need morphine for a short while, and then codine for a few weeks.

That stuff sure knocks you around. My boys used to laugh at me as I headed away for a wee lie down in the afternoons.

I guess my upbringing just means that I hate the thought of being addicted to anything - bikes included. So saying I do like breathing, trying to keep my family sane, and riding the mighty Fenland Express.

[Toaster]

:laugh: Im sure steam will be pleased about that.

Nice one Goblin, nice!

[Krusti]

Marijuana doesn`t really lessen the pain as such, it numbs it a little but what it does is it allows me to distance myself from the intensity of it. It`s still there, but I can kind of step back from it. I would dearly love for the pain to be no more, but in a way I know I`d miss it. It has become my companion, it knows me well and I know it.

I am no where near your level, but I know where you are coming from as far as pain being your companion. To me it's not so much the level of pain but more that it is always there.

I often wonder what I would do without it. Seems wierd I know. Chronic and acute pain are different altogether.

Have had a puff or so before and yes even though my lips were numb I could still feel the pain. I just didn't care as much.

Got to the stage though where I thought bugger it ... go get a job and stop moaning. Next step, get off the pills!

You're an inspiration mate :yes:

[Hitcher]

Is this about herbal remedies or legalising cannabis?

Let's do both.

Herbal "remedies" should be regulated. And they should have to undergo the same scientific rigour in their registration that pharmaceuticals currently do. Most of them are bullshit: in the same category as iridology, homoeopathy, colour therapy, aroma therapy and "organics". But, as they generally do no harm (apart from deluding the gullible and the ever-present bitter anaemic non-religious vegetarians) they generally slide under the radar. However given that Sue Kedgley is hot-to-trot on full disclosure of ingredients in foods, why should quack pills be any different?

And, as for inhaling carcinogenic smoke...

[scumdog]

I'd choose something natural over something man made anyday
Have you seen how much 'man-made' stuff goes into cannabis?? Do you REALLY know what's in the grass you buy??

[Mr. Peanut]

I'm man made :done:

[The_Dover]

Do you REALLY know what's in the grass you buy??

nah, but the stuff I grow is fuckin knockout:mellow:

[Grahameeboy]

nah, but the stuff I grow is fuckin knockout:mellow:

Yep you get puffed just mowing the grass??

[Ixion]

Let's do both.

Herbal "remedies" should be regulated. And they should have to undergo the same scientific rigour in their registration that pharmaceuticals currently do. Most of them are bullshit: in the same category as iridology, homoeopathy, colour therapy, aroma therapy and "organics". But, as they generally do no harm (apart from deluding the gullible and the ever-present bitter anaemic non-religious vegetarians) they generally slide under the radar. However given that Sue Kedgley is hot-to-trot on full disclosure of ingredients in foods, why should quack pills be any different?

And, as for inhaling carcinogenic smoke...

You don't know many witches , do you?

As for herbals being "bullshit": ever hear of penicillin? Or morphine? or Quinine? Ever wondered where they come from ?

A quick scan through the Medicines Regs, under the Prescription Medicine listings show 17 different herbal "quack pills" that the Health Department thought worthy of listing - and paying for. Pharmacy only and restricted medicines add another 18 "quack pills" . I'd very confidently say that if I bothered to read through the British Pharmacopoia I could add another 100.
I'd stick to spin doctoring if I were you.

Oh, and if you think there is any "scientific rigour" in the process by which drugs are registered , you are living in a world of your own. I worked in the industry for years, there is nothing at all scientific about it. Some pseudo science mumbo jumbo, and nobody actually dead (yet) , and a "big corporate" letterhead is all it takes.

(BTW , any plant with a name xxxxx officinalis is a recognised therapeutic, been listed in the BP. Of course not all therapeutics have the officinalis name, a lot were named so long ago) . And almost all herbal remedies disclose all their ingredients. Why would they not ? If someone wants Tinct Arnicae, they're hardly going to buy a product that doesn't say it contains arnica , are they?

(EDIT: Remembered another 5 to add to the Pharmacy only listing. )

[T.W.R]

Marijuana doesn`t really lessen the pain as such, it numbs it a little but what it does is it allows me to distance myself from the intensity of it. It`s still there, but I can kind of step back from it. I would dearly love for the pain to be no more, but in a way I know I`d miss it. It has become my companion, it knows me well and I know it.

Exactly :yes:

Almost 12yrs ago this weekend I was left with an injury that is currently; 30% impaired ROM, permanent non-union of the ulna shaft, permnently dislocated radius, & a consistant pain. Had plenty of operations (even been examined by a surgical team prior to one op), Had more prescription drugs thrown at me than I care to remember (At one point I was having to have blood tests every 2weeks to check liver function because the drugs were so agressive). Technically I've worked the last 10yrs with a broken arm (once worked whilst a broken plate worked it's way out of my elbow (made a guy I was working with :sick: when I showed him :laugh:) ) and I don't do light work either. And it isn't going to get better till technology catches up.

All through that time pot has just allowed that release from the ever present pain without having to dine-out on a cocktail of meds consistantly.

[SixPackBack]

I have experienced chronic pain from a severe neck injury for the best part of 3 years, just over a year ago I had two discs fused in my neck and at some stage in the not to distance future another 2 more will need fusing, recently migraines have started to cripple me.

I have taken pethadine, tramol, synflex, nortriptelen, paratriptelene, morphine, paradex......the list goes on. Some of these drugs I had to have at the height of my injury.

once my surgery was complete and the pain levelled of by far the best medication was.....









Shit loads of exercise, particularly weight training. Its hard at first but give it a whirl it makes a difference.

[Matt Bleck]

The only problem I have with the shit is it's tendancy to bring out psychotic episodes and or schizophrenia in people who might not have become so had they not partaken...

[Beemer]

I'll just stick to coffee thanks. I like my brain in one piece.

Been helping a friend get over a drug addiction - pot.... she now has her memory back and feels a great deal more alert. Maybe something to think about guys.

Used to go out with a guy who was a heavy dope smoker. Met up with him again years later and he couldn't remember half of the things he'd done years earlier, even when you showed him the photos! He used to get a bit aggressive too. He ended up marrying a woman half his age who cheated on him, so he told his family he was going to commit suicide. Despite his family members staying with him on and off for three months, the day the last one went home, he gassed himself in the garage. I honestly believe the dope fucked with his brain to an extent where he was stuffed.

I know you will argue that not everyone is like that and some people can have a smoke now and then without any problems. Tough, I've seen what it did to someone I knew and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

[The_Dover]

cone anyone?

[onearmedbandit]

I know you will argue that not everyone is like that and some people can have a smoke now and then without any problems. Tough, I've seen what it did to someone I knew and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

Do you drink?


cone anyone?

Yes please, be damned if I can find anything over here in Japan.

[Shadows]

The only reason I'd support legalising pot is to tax the ever loving snot out of it and cut the cash crop for the gangs.

Better the devil you know, dude.

[Beemer]

Do you drink?

Yes. This is not an argument about the evils of all other legalised substances, it is about cannabis. I have seen alcoholics and the damage they cause to themselves and others, but the average person who drinks is not going to kill off their brain cells or become paranoid after drinking. However, the vast majority of people I have met who smoke dope have significant memory loss over the years and some have become quite paranoid.

Every mind-altering substance affects people in different ways, but the thing I hate about dope is what it does to people. Plus, if you sit in a room with someone drinking like there is no tomorrow, you can remain sober. Try that in a room where people are smoking dope - you have to leave to avoid becoming stoned yourself. I do not find it a social drug and choose not to associate with those who smoke it. My choice.

[Mr. Peanut]

Every mind-altering substance affects people in different ways, but the thing I hate about dope is what it does to people.

You've seen drunk people right? Someone strung out on caffeine?

People that want to fuck themselves up will do so.

You cannot blame the substance that was convenient to them at the time. Be it caffeine, weed, alcohol, heroin, food (obesity), rat poison, nicotine so on and so forth.

[Beemer]

Unfortunately the effect I was talking of is what I term the 'stupidity factor' - the inane grinning, silly giggling and childish behaviour. Yes, people who choose to self-destruct will do so with whatever 'poison' they wish, but I personally choose to avoid associating with those who do illegal drugs - of any sort. I would also avoid associating with those who drink to excess or diet/eat to excess.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes. This is not an argument about the evils of all other legalised substances, it is about cannabis. I have seen alcoholics and the damage they cause to themselves and others, but the average person who drinks is not going to kill off their brain cells or become paranoid after drinking. However, the vast majority of people I have met who smoke dope have significant memory loss over the years and some have become quite paranoid.

Every mind-altering substance affects people in different ways, but the thing I hate about dope is what it does to people. Plus, if you sit in a room with someone drinking like there is no tomorrow, you can remain sober. Try that in a room where people are smoking dope - you have to leave to avoid becoming stoned yourself. I do not find it a social drug and choose not to associate with those who smoke it. My choice.

I had written out a response to your post, but decided it was not worth it. I understand there will be no changing your opinion, and it`s not worth me taxing my poor doped out brain trying to do so. Anyway, I think someone is watching me as I write this....

And please note, I do not force my habits on others, if I want a smoke I will do it far enough away from others that it has no consequences on their health. And when I am stoned I`m perfectly happy to rejoin my group of friends and carry on enjoying the nighht, watching drunk people get upset, angry, violent, emotional, loud and obnoxious, and then listen to them the next morning moaning about their sore heads. (actually no I don`t, as I don`t associate with self destructive people like that. I`ve nothing against those that drink, but I do get to laugh at them.)

[onearmedbandit]

Unfortunately the effect I was talking of is what I term the 'stupidity factor' - the inane grinning, silly giggling and childish behaviour. Yes, people who choose to self-destruct will do so with whatever 'poison' they wish, but I personally choose to avoid associating with those who do illegal drugs - of any sort. I would also avoid associating with those who drink to excess or diet/eat to excess.

I remember those days, when I first smoked, was a laugh to us but probably looked stupid to others. Now when we smoke, my friends and I like to be prductive, discussing things, working on our bikes, doing stuff that makes us happy. Sitting around giggling is not one of those.

I`d like to meet you sometime, so you can see both sides of the story a bit clearer.

[Ixion]

Actually , the original argument was about *medicinal* use of cannabis. Not recreational use, or its sociological aspects.

I know of no therapeutic use for tobacco (which I do not use). I do know of some (mainly prophylactic) medicinal use for alcohol , which I do use.

I know of a number of theraputic uses for cannabis (which I do not use).

I am puzzled why a product that has indisputed therapeutic use, and very limited damage even when abused, is illegal for therapeutic purposes, while other products which either have no therapeutic purpose at all (tobacco), or cause major damage when abused (ethanol) are legal.

It would be perfectly possible to leave cannabis banned for reacreational use, and its supply subject to licensing , just as other therapeutics likely to be abused are. Supply on prescription. Probably as a tincture.

Ms Beemer, would you be as opposed to someone using cannabis genuinely for therapeutic purposes?

(BTW, One reason why I use neither tobacco nor cannabis is that on the occasions - many years ago- when I tried them, both had absolutely no effect whatsoever on me. By my observation and that of others. I suppose, just as some people can drink prodigiously without effect , whilst others are tiddley on half a glass of wine)

[Beemer]

Ms Beemer, would you be as opposed to someone using cannabis genuinely for therapeutic purposes?

You will be surprised to learn that I don't have a problem with the medicinal use of drugs that ease pain, etc. and I am all for research continuing into ways to harness the therapeutic benefits of cannabis without it getting the person high.

Onearmedbandit - we are all entitled to our opinions and I was merely expressing mine. You say you wouldn't be able to change my opinion and I doubt very much if I could change yours. Hopefully it will be possible for us both to stand by our opinions without the ruckus started in other threads when my personal views differed from others. I've got the guts to stand up and say what I believe and you are right, nothing you or anyone else can say will make me change my views on illegal drugs.

[onearmedbandit]

I was never aiming to get into a fight with you over it, I respect others opinions. However, like you, I will make a stand for what I believe in. One thing I try not to do though is make sweeping generalisations, as we are all different, from different backgrounds, having different perspectives and experiences. We could get into a healthy discussion regarding why marijuana is illegal in the first place though! DuPont anyone?

[Krusti]

As a small aside...just recieved a large form to fill out for an appointment with a series of pain specialists.

Question.

Do you take ANY other kinds of drugs? (Prescribed or otherwise)

Answer.

Details / will discuss later _______________________________

I suspect not a good idea to list any others here. But I suspect that there are quite a few folks who will discuss this later.:yes:

[scumdog]

Hmmm, a pity that the 'herbal medecine' aspect of the weed didn't cut in when the guy in the Hutt Valley was stabbed to death - he might have survived if it had...:whistle:

And anyway, I was lead to believe all pot heads were non agro peaceful type kept calm by it's use, how come this dude got snuffed by users of it wanting more of the aforementioned weed???:whistle: :dodge:

[onearmedbandit]

Yup, you've convinced me SD. Actually I knew all us pot smoking deviates were murderers, just waiting for the right opportunity. I just didn't want to admit it on a public forum.

Do you realise people have also been killed because someone wanted their motorcycle, so they got shot, stabbed, or beaten up. Or someone wanted someone else's girl, so they killed the boyfriend.

[Ixion]

With respect Mr Scumdog, I don't think your argument is a sound one. It could equally well be argued that the murder is a good reason for legalisation of cannabis. If cannabis were legal there would be no more reason for anyone to rob, let alone murder, to secure it, than there woud be to secure a packet of cigarettes. Though men have been murdered for a packet of cigarettes, before now.

The nature of cannabis, legal or illegal, did not have any bearing on this crime.

What this crime does do, is highlight the illogicallity of treating burglary as a non-crime. Anyone still care to maintain that burglary doesn't deserve police attention because "it's only property crime" and "no-one dies as a result" (unlike speeding drivers doing 111kph , who, as everyone knows, always kill someone)