Cannabis legalisation

[jrandom]

u4ea's recent thread bemoaning the current situation vis-a-vis medicinal use of cannabis got me thinking.

With elections approaching, it's time to consider what policies are important to us, what works well as it stands, and what needs to be fixed.

The Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party (http://www.alcp.org.nz/) (ALCP) is a political party focused on achieving legislation to legalise cannabis use and production in New Zealand.

The question behind my question is: Would you use your party vote to throw your weight behind a single-issue party, confident in the knowledge that if they exceed the parliamentary entry threshhold, Governmental adoption of their primary legislative policy in exchange for their support of a major party becomes a highly likely outcome?

In other words, would you be happy to leave it to the Silent Majority (tm) to decide between the not-too-dissimilar socioeconomic approaches of Labour and National, and focus instead on supporting a single policy that was important to you or someone you cared about?

This could, of course, apply equally to the Greens' ideas on conservation and sustainability, but that's not what's on my mind right now.

[jrandom]

I'm disappointed, folks.

39 thread views, and only 8 responses to the poll?

It's impossible not to hold a position congruent with one of my poll options. Come on, guys. Feel the love, share the data...

[Disco Dan]

It has it's place in society, in medicine and also in mental health.

I have seen this drug have negative effects on people, alter their mental health and cause the person to withdraw from society. Lost their job, and the respect of peers.

I have seen a person who is normally very reserved and timid, take the drug in moderation and started to explore his personality more than ever before. This person is now the life of most events and no longer uses the drug.

I have used this drug before, and as with everything in life - if it is abused then that is when the problems begin. I only "agree with" drugs that occur naturally: marijuana, mushrooms, peyote cactus etc I have not and will not ever go near a drug that has been 'manufactured'. As human beings our bodies are simply not designed to be exposed to that sort of stimulus in our brains. The results of this 'unatural stimulus' is usually always headline news... rape, murder, armed robbery etc etc.. all fuelled by 'manufactured' drugs.

Yes, it is mostly an 'experimental' stage/phase that most young adults go through, but in correct dosages the medical benifits far outway any psycoactive drawbacks.

[Street Gerbil]

My brain pays for my petrol. No chance in hell I'll consider to try anything potentially harmful for its functioning. If you want to fsck up yours, that's your own problem as long as you stay off the road and don't threaten to kill me or anybody else. I say, other than that, the only law governing drug use should be Darwin's.

[The_Dover]

skin up bro!!

[onearmedbandit]

I voted for the second option. I have no shame in admitting I smoke marijuana (like some people expect I should) but the laws controlling it don`t affect me on a daily basis enough to vote for a single issue party. I get my supply from a good friend, it lasts me long enough to not be a financial burden (I spend less on pot in a week then drinkers do in a night), we don`t associate with `gangs` or other heavies as he grows his own.

[spookytooth]

no option for who gives a fuck ?

[The_Dover]

no option for who gives a fuck ?

yeah, it's called don't vote and fuck off and read something else cocksmoker

[jrandom]

no option for who gives a fuck ?

Sure there is.

It's called "don't bother reading the thread".

[Cajun]

Don't use, never really done interest me,

But saying that alot of good money is wasted trying to prevent it, so maybe not legalise it but recrimilse it, for people having amounts small enough for personal use, or even go as far and put a tax on like ciggs(dont see that happening in a nana labour state)

[spookytooth]

had to read it to see if i gave a fuck or not :)

[The_Dover]

had to read it to see if i gave a fuck or not :)

and when you read it?

[SPman]

and when you read it?
see post #7

[Drum]

Option No.2.

Toker, but there are issues more important to me than legalising weed, like income tax splitting, raising tax thresholds etc.

[MisterD]

My brain pays for my petrol. No chance in hell I'll consider to try anything potentially harmful for its functioning.

I take it you don't drink either then, SG?

I don't partake of cannabis anymore, but only because I saw the smoking aspect as a physical health risk which had an adverse effect on my enjoyment of, and ability to perform at MTBing and rugby...dose control if you're eating the stuff is just too damn hard.

As a benevolent dictator, I'd legalise it, tax it and break the link to organised (or disorganised) crime...but it's not high enough on my priority list to spend my whole party vote on.

[Disco Dan]

I'm disappointed, folks.

39 thread views, and only 8 responses to the poll?

It's impossible not to hold a position congruent with one of my poll options. Come on, guys. Feel the love, share the data...

You happy yet fish? Or you still a disapointed trout? :dodge:

This is a subject of great debate - which I know your aware! It even spans two threads...

Im impressed!

[lb99]

I am casual enought to admit it..... option two for me


I have no shame in admitting I smoke marijuana (like some people expect I should) but the laws controlling it don`t affect me on a daily basis enough to vote for a single issue party. ... (I spend less on pot in a week then drinkers do in a night), .


me too, a buzz every now and then is a cool experience, for every cannabis fuckup that I know, (and I do know a few) I can point out many people who are fine upstanding citizens, other than they like to get high occasionally (oh, the shame :nono:)

I do think that total decriminalization could cause some borderline loosers to drop out completely and just go hard.

there does need to be some control IMO as I know a lot of lazy bludgers who would put weed over and above jobs, family, responsibiltys.....


Option No.2.

Toker, but there are issues more important to me than legalising weed, like income tax splitting, raising tax thresholds etc.

+1

fkn secondary tax...........grrrrr

[Albino]

yep, legalise. It's damn hard trying to get some when you don't have a regular contact. I've been trying for 6 bloody months now.

[Disco Dan]

yep, legalise. It's damn hard trying to get some when you don't have a regular contact. I've been trying for 6 bloody months now.

looking in the wrong places mate :shutup:

[kiwifruit]

Don't use, never really done interest me,



+ 1

[BarBender]

Used to use. Only ever crosses my mind when I'm up Norf or thinking of planting it my CEOs desk drawer and framing the cow.

[Hitcher]

1. I would never waste my party vote on a single-issue party, even if I passionately believed in their cause, which in the case of marijuana "legalisation", I don't.

2. I am opposed to any moves to "legalise" marijuana or any other mind-altering drugs with significant health effects. The stuff is bad for people. It should be banned. If people want to smoke the stuff, as they do with tobacco, then that's a matter of "informed" personal choice. But I don't see why their pursuit of pleasure should be encouraged, nor should that be extended to an environment where "youths" are able to access and use a product that does them harm. I'm not talking about the odd toke behind the bikesheds, I'm talking about prolonged use. Addiction, if you will. Does this mean that I think that tobacco should also be banned? Yes.

[Coaster]

It has it's place in society, in medicine and also in mental health.

I have seen this drug have negative effects on people, alter their mental health and cause the person to withdraw from society. Lost their job, and the respect of peers.

I have seen a person who is normally very reserved and timid, take the drug in moderation and started to explore his personality more than ever before. This person is now the life of most events and no longer uses the drug.

I have used this drug before, and as with everything in life - if it is abused then that is when the problems begin. I only "agree with" drugs that occur naturally: marijuana, mushrooms, peyote cactus etc I have not and will not ever go near a drug that has been 'manufactured'. As human beings our bodies are simply not designed to be exposed to that sort of stimulus in our brains. The results of this 'unatural stimulus' is usually always headline news... rape, murder, armed robbery etc etc.. all fuelled by 'manufactured' drugs.

Yes, it is mostly an 'experimental' stage/phase that most young adults go through, but in correct dosages the medical benifits far outway any psycoactive drawbacks.

(IL4 here) - I get to work with the negative effects of all drugs on those individuals with mental health issues. The fact of the matter is that combined the issues become magnified and a bigger problem to those using. To suggest that cannabis should be used in mental health is both irresponsible and an uneducated indication of the true issue.

[jrandom]

I am opposed to any moves to "legalise" marijuana or any other mind-altering drugs with significant health effects. The stuff is bad for people. It should be banned.

Anyone for Laphroaig?


If people want to smoke the stuff, as they do with tobacco, then that's a matter of "informed" personal choice.

This statement jars against the remainder of your post. Are you sure you didn't just chuck it in as a hypocritical sop to counter-argument? The purpose of the regulation you appear to support is to remove personal choice, presumably for the greater good.


Does this mean that I think that tobacco should also be banned? Yes.

I cannae agree. Not with the mental picture of two fingers of Laphroaig sitting alongside a Romeo y Julieta. Some things on God's green Earth should not be set asunder.

For the record, I smoke, on average, about one or two cigars a month, and you are welcome to take them from my cold, dead hands.

[Drunken Monkey]

It looks like the middle-road-mildly-apathetic (don't smoke it, don't oppose legalisation, don't want to vote on it) are ahead. I'm pleasantly suprised.


For the record, I smoke, on average, about one or two cigars a month, and you are welcome to take them from my cold, dead hands.

I agree. There's something to be said about enjoying a cigar and a fine single malt. Laphroaig isn't my first choice (prefer Glenmorangie and Glenfiddich). And a nice hot cup of tea, not at the same time of course...tea is more of an afternoon thing. Oh, and ice-cream, because like I say, everybody loves ice-cream!

[Hitcher]

Tobacco and, to a lesser extent, alcohol are historical anomalies.

I enjoy greatly my single-malt whisky. But I haven't smoked since high school.

I also know too much about acute and chronic pain but have never used these as an excuse to either get boozed or bombed.

[Skyryder]

Don't like the the idea of legal. Do that and the whole thing becomes commercial. I have supported de-criminalization for some time now. I fail to see how someone having a smoke in their home is acting in the same manner as burgler, or any other acts of a criminal nature. If someone wants to grow and give away I have no problem but to sell that's a commercial act as it is now. Take away the money and you destroy a lot of problems.

Skyryder

[jrandom]

Tobacco and, to a lesser extent, alcohol are historical anomalies.

Only in our own Anglo-Saxon culture. There's no non-fallacious argument to be found in that fact. It has much to do with where we find ourselves now, but has little relevance to debate on where we should go next.


I also know too much about acute and chronic pain but have never used these as an excuse to either get boozed or bombed.

In my experience, booze is a terrible painkiller. I feel ill well before any analgesic qualities kick in. Medicinally, it's much more useful as a sterilising agent than as a drug.

THC, however, has a number of very interesting applications.

That's not really the issue at hand, though. The issue is whether it is more to the Greater Good (tm) to legalise cannabis, or to criminalise it. A number of issues interplay there, including the potential harm done by its use (the canonical demotivational effects of heavy use, and the health effects of smoking) together with the potential benefits of its use, and the problems engendered by giving organised crime a monopoly on its distribution.

IMHO, the results of the Murkn experiment with partial criminalisation of alcohol in the early twentieth century are instructive.

[Mole_C]

Yea legalising it would be great, wouldn't have to worry about drug tests for the army or anything anymore :yes: Could take the bunny bong out in public

As for voting for them, was dubious at first. Kinda a stupid party devoted to one issue, but who else have we got to vote for. One policy which is good or other parties with lots of idiots and stupid policies.

Why the hell not!

[u4ea]

I didnt vote at all last elections as not one party I watched on the debates gave me any thing to feel confident about:shutup: .Now Im aware of the ALCP theyll get my vote:rockon: .It would be good to see it given a decriminilisation status as I am not a big user and dont like paying too much for it(risk money at the end of the day)I wont grow it as I dont feel like a meal and bed at Arohata.I would be happy given a quota as with alchahol and if I exceeded that then suffer a fine..:innocent:

[Mr. Peanut]

In the Hauraki Herald, a man with three marijuana plants was found by police helicopter and taken to court.

That's at least two in the chopper, the fuel, the maintenance, the team to pick it up, disposal, and due court process. For three plants in the middle of nowhere.

Time to grow up.

[The_Dover]

Time to grow up.

you mean time to grow more

if you're gonna be busted at least make it worthwhile!

[Lorax]

Don't like the the idea of legal. Do that and the whole thing becomes commercial. I have supported de-criminalization for some time now.

Yes. I smoke up about once a week, not a huge amount, but I love it. However I don't believe it should be legalised. I'm all for decriminalisation, with instant fines for certain small amounts. Similar to speeding - it is not a criminal offence to speed a little bit, but it isn't allowed, and therefore you get a slap on the hand.



The issue is whether it is more to the Greater Good (tm) to legalise cannabis, or to criminalise it. A number of issues interplay there, including the potential harm done by its use (the canonical demotivational effects of heavy use, and the health effects of smoking) together with the potential benefits of its use, and the problems engendered by giving organised crime a monopoly on its distribution.

Yup. My belief is simply that prohibition is having more negative effects on NZ's society than the use of it is. And yes, I have seen negative effects, being in social work and working with kids that have been kicked out of school, so don't say I don't know what's going on.

Also, the greens have compromised in the last couple of years and now believe that it should be decriminalised, with small instant fines. They used to want total legalisation but have backed off a bit.

[scumdog]

I take it you don't drink either then, SG?.

A drink or two a day won't be measurable the next day - unlike cannabis.

Read from that what you will.

I get to deal with more sorry-arsed cheese-dick mofos who toke than those that don't.

[The_Dover]

A drink or two a day won't be measurable the next day - unlike cannabis.

Read from that what you will.

I get to deal with more soory-arsed chees-dick mofos who toke than those that don't.

you'd be surprised, just like closet Shortie watchers.

I think alcohol is infinitely more damaging than marijuana

[Mr. Peanut]

Bah, I'm gonna do what I want anyway copper. I'm a good member of society.

So with all due respect, up yours!

[Lorax]

Bah, I'm gonna do what I want anyway copper. I'm a good member of society.

So with all due respect, up yours!

Yeah I feel a little stink for cops having to enforce that law. The police council are for decriminalisation am I not correct?

Parliament makes the laws, and the cops have to enforce the laws that the MP's make.

Actually wouldn't mind being a cop apart from the whole liking-smoking-weed thing.

[Mr. Peanut]

You haven't dealt with Thames police yet. You wouldn't be so sympathetic.

[Deano]

(IL4 here) - I get to work with the negative effects of all drugs on those individuals with mental health issues. The fact of the matter is that combined the issues become magnified and a bigger problem to those using. To suggest that cannabis should be used in mental health is both irresponsible and an uneducated indication of the true issue.

Bollocks to you and all.

The facts of the matter are that SOME people can handle a little bit of whatever they fancy, and SOME can't.

You see one end of the spectrum only, that doesn't make you an expert sorry.

SOME people shouldn't ride bikes cause their riding skills are crap, some people shouldn't be allowed to drive. Some shouldn't be allowed to drink - hell some shouldn't be allowed to discipline their own children cause they don't know the difference between discipline and abuse.

For fucks sake people - get a grip. It takes all sorts in this world and lets face it - some people shouldn't be allowed to breed or breath oxygen.

BUT - to make one person's enjoyment illegal cause others can't handle the fucken jandle, get real.

[The_Dover]

SOME people shouldn't ride bikes cause their riding skills are crap,

no need to get personal bitch.

[Deano]

Bah, I'm gonna do what I want anyway copper. I'm a good member of society.

So with all due respect, up yours!


Abuse of the cops and total disregard for the law......you should be punished - must be the drugs talking you low life scum of society !!!

[Grantasaurus]

I don't partake, but I'd like to see the legalisation of it. I guess I'm a bit of a civil libertarian at heart.
You should be able to do anything you like as long as it doesn't harm other people or impinge on their freedom.
Just my 10c

[jonbuoy]

I used to smoke solid a bit when I was younger in the UK - over here its more like a class A drug waaaaaaaaay stronger. I hate thinking about how much time I wasted when I could have been doing something more constructive, same goes for wasting sunny days hungover.

[SixPackBack]

The thought of the sorry arsed collective bunch of misfit retards in parliament instructing the general public on what they can or cannot do is a contradiction of terms.

Fuck the pollies [bunch of lying thieving c%$ts] and the police their enforcers [brain washed to believe utter bullshit].

As long as the evil tobacco and alcohol are legal so should all drugs, hell they should be commercialised.

And for the record I do not use drugs or tobacco and rarely drink.

And in answer to the inevitable police line...'youdonhaftapickupthepeicesshite'......bull shit! the farce has a long history of alcohol abuse and still does not connect the dots after the constant barrage of alcohol related domestics and accidents.

[Grahameeboy]

Yep and the Govt get huge revenue from Alcohol and Tobacco.....they have now legalised brothels.............what does that tell you..MP's smoke, drink and like prostitutes.............so I guess why not drugs..........ya cannot have a have your cake and eat it society eh SP

[Matt Bleck]

Puff, puff, giiiiive.......

[Lorax]

The thought of the sorry arsed collective bunch of misfit retards in parliament instructing the general public on what they can or cannot do is a contradiction of terms.

Fuck the pollies [bunch of lying thieving c%$ts] and the police their enforcers [brain washed to believe utter bullshit].

As long as the evil tobacco and alcohol are legal so should all drugs, hell they should be commercialised.

And for the record I do not use drugs or tobacco and rarely drink.

And in answer to the inevitable police line...'youdonhaftapickupthepeicesshite'......bull shit! the farce has a long history of alcohol abuse and still does not connect the dots after the constant barrage of alcohol related domestics and accidents.

Wow, you sound like you'd love to live in an anarchist world eh? Societies organise themselves, and in our case it's via a democracy.

I think there's something on your shoulder... looks like... yep... it's a big old chip. There it is, can see it. Riiiiiight there.

But yes, agree about damage of alcohol to society eh.
[Again, I agree with decriminalisation, and have tried many a drug]

[SixPackBack]

Wow, you sound like you'd love to live in an anarchist world eh? Societies organise themselves, and in our case it's via a democracy.

Democracy?...really? more like a totalitarian socialist state.

Democracy: Government by the people.

Funny thing is Lorax as recently as a few weeks ago pollies where wasting our time and taxes trying to push through a bill [ant-smacking] that the overwhelming majority of citizens where vehemently opposed to. Sound like Democracy?

[Lorax]

Democracy?...really? more like a totalitarian socialist state.

Democracy: Government by the people.

Funny thing is Lorax as recently as a few weeks ago pollies where wasting our time and taxes trying to push through a bill [ant-smacking] that the overwhelming majority of citizens where vehemently opposed to. Sound like Democracy?

Yes. Unfortunately.

[xwhatsit]

I don't smoke the stuff, but I know people that do/did. Three people in particular come to mind.

The first two got kicked out of my school because they were found to have been using and growing the stuff. One of them completely fucked up their life from then on, due to the police and courts and parents and all kinds of chaos. Basically a complete no-hoper now, lives on a benefit. At school he was a reasonably smart chap and had a fairly bright future. I haven't heard from the other guy, but by all accounts he's not doing too well compared to how he was when he was still at my alma mater.

The third guy never got caught; he took a toke at some party and fell in love with the stuff. It consumed his life, pretty much. Dropped out of school because he was too stoned to turn up half the time. Before he dropped out, he went from a A-/B+ average to about a C average. He was failing when he dropped out. Living in a council flat on the benefit as well.

I know other people who take the occasional puff and it's just like me with drinking; I might have two or three glasses of wine over the week, but it's not my whole life. Just a simple pleasure.

So I'm undecided. Clearly it has the power to fuck people up. Just like a lot of other legal things. However, as Hitcher said, why give it the power to be promoted and marketed and become even more available and attractive to people? More potential to fuck up lives. But also the law w.r.t. this issue can fuck people up, too. Ruin lives as well. So I say, decriminalise it. But don't legalise it. No point in giving somebody a criminal record for a little toke they had at college, but still there's no need to legalise it and allow it to ruin more lives.

[scumdog]

you'd be surprised, just like closet Shortie watchers.

I think alcohol is infinitely more damaging than marijuana

To requote:

So we have a big shark in the swimming pool - and now you think a barracoutta would be a good idea in the pool 'cos it's not as bad as the shark?

Brilliant logic Sherlock:whistle: :wacko: :rolleyes:

[The_Dover]

To requote:

So we have a big shark in the swimming pool - and now you think a barracoutta would be a good idea in the pool 'cos it's not as bad as the shark?

Brilliant logic Sherlock:whistle: :wacko: :rolleyes:

what the fuck are you on about cunt?

I'd rather pick a fight with a stoner than a drunk.

At least they'd buy me a burger afterwards.

[Shadows]

I think it should be decriminalised but not necessarily legalised. People should be free to pursue their chosen lifestyle without fear of persecution, provided they aren't harming others or burdening society as a result of their choices. The moderate use of pot falls into neither category. Anybody who tries to state otherwise is, quite frankly, wrong. Like most things, moderation is the key.

Complete legalisation, however, would mean that large scale, legitimate and taxed businesses could be set up concerned with the cultivation and distribution of pot. Some may think that is not such a bad thing, but my take on this considers the dealers, their bread and butter depends on cannabis being illegal and as a result not so readily available. Those people would suddenly find their income streams cut off as they could not compete. The result? They will have to change their business plan. This might involve the distribution of harder drugs which they previously wouldn't have considered dealing with. It may involve other organised crime, theft, burglary, aggravated robbery, all in order to maintain the lifestyles to which they have become accustomed. It is no secret these people exist, it is also no secret that no matter what the view of the majority, they will always exist in one form or another. It doesn't matter what people rant on about in internet forums, the truth of the matter is that it is an indisputable fact and fuck all can really be done about it. So, tell me I have a defeatist attitude or whatever, I don't give a fuck, all I know is that I'd far rather there was a tinny house on the corner than a whole bunch more cunts running around stealing peoples' shit and robbing old ladies at the ATM, and even more P-heads doing maniacal shit on the streets.

Any way, that Helen bitch has to go. I wouldn't waste my vote on a single issue party and run the risk of far more important things not being fixed because we are stuck under the same shit-house management for another three years.

[spudchucka]

The police council are for decriminalisation am I not correct?

Do you mean the police association? If so the answer is no. Drugs and property crime are inherently linked, why would any police related organisation support decriminalising it?

[spudchucka]

You see one end of the spectrum only, that doesn't make you an expert sorry.

I think when it comes to mental health he is much more of an expert than anyone else on this forum, given that he's a trained mental health nurse.

There is much evidence to suggest that consuming cannabis is about the worst thing that a paranoid schizophrenic can do.

If you don't believe me then research the background of this guy....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10430743&ref=rss

[SixPackBack]

Do you mean the police association? If so the answer is no. Drugs and property crime are inherently linked, why would any police related organisation support decriminalising it?

Besides decriminalising cannabis would remove another benign group for the cops to harass and tazer. Decriminalising or legalising in any form effectively decreases workload for the pigs, naturally they will never agree to any moves that may threaten jobs.

Guess they could always reinforce highway patrol giving speeding tickets, now thats REAL crime<_<

[spudchucka]

You're not smoking this stuff are you? Because you sound really paranoid and deluded.

[DEATH_INC.]

Put simply, I've seen infinitly more problems from alchohol than dope. Where I come from, up north, both are plentiful. Stoners are much more docile, they don't go round beating on people and smashing shit for fun, not to mention going home and beating on the wife and kids.
The odd one that f**ks up their lives are an exception, and you gotta wonder if it wouldn't have happened anyhoo. I know of some very intelligent people who partake, with seemingly no ill effects.
But back to the subject, I'm all for legalizing it, except for that problem of what the growers will do, though if the powers in charge take their heads outta their arses and look they'll see...... they're making f**ken 'P' already, the biggest problem to face the WORLD in years.
BTW, I don't smoke the shit, but have done a little in my younger days.

[DEATH_INC.]

You're not smoking this stuff are you? Because you sound really paranoid and deluded.
I have yet to see this with it.......funny how it effects different people eh? Just like piss......

[SixPackBack]

You're not smoking this stuff are you? Because you sound really paranoid and deluded.

Accusations without proof are probably well outside of the new police directive to behave appropriately at all times. A more suitable reply from you would have been: I disagree with you Sir Sixpack.

And no I do not use drugs nor do I judge those that do.

[Grahameeboy]

You're not smoking this stuff are you? Because you sound really paranoid and deluded.

No he is just smoking the pipe of life's experiences.......powerful drug, should be made illegal

[Grahameeboy]

Accusations without proof are probably well outside of the new police directive to behave appropriately at all times. A more suitable reply from you would have been: I disagree with you Sir Sixpack.

And no I do not use drugs nor do I judge those that do.

Is that 15% proof 1pack?

[Grahameeboy]

Sixpack, you have gone quiet, you smoking nutrigrain again...??

[The_Dover]

shouldn't you be at church celebrating the death of a mythical bullshit artist and buggering choir boys gaymeboy?

[idleidolidyll]

I'm disappointed, folks.

39 thread views, and only 8 responses to the poll?

It's impossible not to hold a position congruent with one of my poll options. Come on, guys. Feel the love, share the data...

just saw this thread.

trouble with a poll like this is it is NOT absolutely confidential and we all know there are cops lurking on KB.
I wouldn't expect those who do use to answer in the affirmative in NZ given that our prisons are full of victimless criminals already.

[Grahameeboy]

shouldn't you be at church celebrating the death of a mythical bullshit artist and buggering choir boys gaymeboy?

Nop, today all the Churches in parish organise a walk up Mt Victoria with a re-enactment of the crucifixion............and we don't have choir boys.....

So you coming to unveiling then?

[idleidolidyll]

Three royal commissions/govt research initiatives have noted that the policing of cannabis causes more harm than the drug itself and all have been ignored by government.

The ALCP has no chance at all.

[idleidolidyll]

My brain pays for my petrol. No chance in hell I'll consider to try anything potentially harmful for its functioning. If you want to fsck up yours, that's your own problem as long as you stay off the road and don't threaten to kill me or anybody else. I say, other than that, the only law governing drug use should be Darwin's.

so you don't drink any alcohol (a far worse drug for brain and body, you don't smoke cigarettes and you don't take prescription medicine (the biggest killer drugs on the planet)?

[The_Dover]

Nop, today all the Churches in parish organise a walk up Mt Victoria with a re-enactment of the crucifixion............and we don't have choir boys.....

So you coming to unveiling then?

are we gonna crucify someone and then get stoned?

[idleidolidyll]

I don't partake of cannabis anymore, but only because I saw the smoking aspect as a physical health risk which had an adverse effect on my enjoyment of, and ability to perform at MTBing and rugby...

using a vaporiser eliminates the lung issue and 'apparently' the weed looks almost the same when all the goodness is gone: you can sell it on to the street kids and not get busted (since there's no THC left, it's just hemp by then)

[spudchucka]

Accusations without proof are probably well outside of the new police directive to behave appropriately at all times. A more suitable reply from you would have been: I disagree with you Sir Sixpack.

And no I do not use drugs nor do I judge those that do.

Sorry, I must have missed the bit about sucking up to losers.

[The_Dover]

using a vaporiser eliminates the lung issue and 'apparently' the weed looks almost the same when all the goodness is gone: you can sell it on to the street kids and not get busted (since there's no THC left, it's just hemp by then)

nah, it's all dry and looks more like sawdust from a fish smoker

it's a much more mellow buzz too cos there is no carbon monoxide poisoning in the hit

[Grahameeboy]

are we gonna crucify someone and then get stoned?

LOL...............................

[The_Dover]

Sorry, I must have missed the bit about sucking up to losers.

you prefer to suck them off?

[idleidolidyll]

2. I am opposed to any moves to "legalise" marijuana or any other mind-altering drugs with significant health effects. It's bad for people

I suggest you read the findings of the three royal commissions, it seems you are labouring under a misconception. Weed is way less harmful than the policing of it and it's worst effect is possible lung cancer which can be obviated by use of a vaporiser. Alcohol is by far a worse drug and nicotine is worse again.
The only corollary would be that it should NOT be used by under 18's as at that age, the brain is still developing and CAN be affected permanently. After that age there is almost no long term harm and in NZ the worst long term harms are from imprisonment, social stigma by alcohol using hypocrites, crimes that cannot be reported, suspension of international travel ability, employment implications etc.

[idleidolidyll]

nah, it's all dry and looks more like sawdust from a fish smoker

it's a much more mellow buzz too cos there is no carbon monoxide poisoning in the hit

dude, you wanna sort your suspension this weekend?
looks like i'm around and i can come over or you can come to manukau.

maybe we can test some theories from this thread?

[Xtat1k]

nah, it's all dry and looks more like sawdust from a fish smoker

it's a much more mellow buzz too cos there is no carbon monoxide poisoning in the hit

lol im sure theres a few out there who wouldnt notice

[Teflon]

using a vaporiser eliminates the lung issue and 'apparently' the weed looks almost the same when all the goodness is gone: you can sell it on to the street kids and not get busted (since there's no THC left, it's just hemp by then)

It's a cleaner hit.. highly unlikely you could sell it on, because the shit just crumbles.

[lb99]

just saw this thread.

trouble with a poll like this is it is NOT absolutely confidential and we all know there are cops lurking on KB.
I wouldn't expect those who do use to answer in the affirmative in NZ given that our prisons are full of victimless criminals already.


I am not too worried, they already know who I am, if they really wanted something to do then I suppose they could look up my(or any other minor offendors) record and pay me a visit, although we both know it would be a waste of time, I like a puff occasionally, but I also own my own house, hold down at least two jobs, and make sure my kids are well looked after and those things come first.

[Hitcher]

I'm not going to get suckered into a "bell curve" argument by a bunch of yay-sayers in the third standard deviation. Marijuana is not harmless, and neither are its current distribution and marketing systems. If it is going to be legalised it will need to be cheaper than the product is at present. And I'm a bit uncomfortable with making products like this cheaper and more readily available.

[Shadows]

I'm not going to get suckered into a "bell curve" argument by a bunch of yay-sayers in the third standard deviation. Marijuana is not harmless, and neither are its current distribution and marketing systems. If it is going to be legalised it will need to be cheaper than the product is at present. And I'm a bit uncomfortable with making products like this cheaper and more readily available.

I concur in that full legalisation might not be such a good idea, and it would give children easier access to pot than they have at present.

But, to put the other half of your argument in perspective, almost nothing is harmless, especially in excess. Man, even barbequed steak is said to be carcinogenic. Eating too much sugar throughout your life can cause you to develop type II diabetes. The microbes which cause legionnaire's disease could be living in your shower rose. We all know about the dangers of tobacco and alcohol. Shit, somebody even told me the other day that riding motorcycles was dangerous!

Live and let live, people should be free to make their own, informed, choices, and to be free from persecition for doing so. That is why I think decriminalisation, rather than legalisation, is the way to go.

[scumdog]

what the fuck are you on about cunt?

I'd rather pick a fight with a stoner than a drunk.

At least they'd buy me a burger afterwards.

(sigh)For those even less astute than Dover:
We already have a shark (booze) in the pool (society) and obviously it is not a good thing..

Certain people seem to think it would be a 'good idea' to introduce a barracoutta (cannabis) to the pool "Because it's not as bad as alcohol" (the shark).

[SixPackBack]

(sigh)For those even less astute than Dover:
We already have a shark (booze) in the pool (society) and obviously it is not a good thing..

Certain people seem to think it would be a 'good idea' to introduce a barracoutta (cannabis) to the pool "Because it's not as bad as alcohol" (the shark).

Scummy both you and the police are not even remotely attached to reality.

Must be all the piss you consume huh?

[scumdog]

Scummy both you and the police are not even remotely attached to reality.

Must be all the piss you consume huh?

The code of conduct says nothing about needing to be attached to reality - not even remotely!:yes:

And was just home from work when I posted the last post so hadn't even had time to have any of the tquila I'm having now.

[SixPackBack]

Sorry, I must have missed the bit about sucking up to losers.


The biggest losers in our society of late have been the police.

[Grahameeboy]

The biggest losers in our society of late have been the police.


You still on the Nutrigrain..................works better in foil and a lighter flame under it eh..ddduuuudddrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Grahameeboy]

I concur in that full legalisation might not be such a good idea, and it would give children easier access to pot than they have at present.

But, to put the other half of your argument in perspective, almost nothing is harmless, especially in excess. Man, even barbequed steak is said to be carcinogenic. Eating too much sugar throughout your life can cause you to develop type II diabetes. The microbes which cause legionnaire's disease could be living in your shower rose. We all know about the dangers of tobacco and alcohol. Shit, somebody even told me the other day that riding motorcycles was dangerous!

Live and let live, people should be free to make their own, informed, choices, and to be free from persecition for doing so. That is why I think decriminalisation, rather than legalisation, is the way to go.

You have a point. More Laws relating to what we cannot do just adds to the number of crimes committed I guess but on the other hand if drugs were made legal and the price goes up will this have a knock on effect on increase in crimes to pay for drugs or will the fact the drugs are no longer illusive make them cheaper?



Drug users

[scumdog]

The biggest losers in our society of late have been the police.


Hmmm, had a good look around, didn't notice I'd lost anything, what are you waffling on about child??:scratch:


Now if you were talking about certain members of the public..........

[SixPackBack]

Hmmm, had a good look around, didn't notice I'd lost anything, what are you waffling on about child??:scratch:


Now if you were talking about certain members of the public..........


Go back to your bottle grandad.

[scumdog]

Go back to your bottle grandad.

Is that it? that's your best reponse?

Sheesh, I'm, sorely disappointed, not up to your usual standard of sarcasm, petulance and childish wit at all........

[candor]

As a psyc nurse too I have to support IL4 and Spudchucka.

It gets very wearying to always be confronted with the norml and teenage rebel libertarian type propaganda re "its not really harmful" "its victimless".
The hippy generation has done a good job of putting positive spin on dope and that itself has caused a lot of damage.

In quite a few years working in acute psyc wards I can tell everyone here that perhaps over half of all seriously ill people admitted are admitted solely because they have been smoking!!! Strange but true.

Yes we could save very many health dollars at roughly $800 or more a night in hospital (cut the mental health budget in half I'd guesstimate) if there was some way to stop thousands of people with mental health issues from smoking as it is the leading cause of 'reviolving door' acute patients.

Handover reports usually go something like this

"Mr A was admitted today due to exacerbation of schizophrenia with command auditory hallucinations related to use of mj in contravention to the conditions of his treatment order - he was doing well until he began smoking again"
"Ms C was admitted today due to a manic episode running round naked as she tried to seduce her sons teacher pursuant to a 3 day history of mj use'
"So and so tried to ?commit suicide or ?fly off a building thinking he was superman as a result of a drug related psychosis triggered his partner says by... yes, you guessed it"
"Now this is really an intriguing case - no marijuana was involved...."

True cases I have direct experience of

A manic depressive (mood swings from elation to depressed in a cycle over months) whose about 2 month history of heavy smoking led to a wacky psychosis which caused him at about 25 while high plus "high" to rape two grannies he stalked killing one. He had a weird deviate personality anyway but the dope removed his inhibitions, tipped the balance and increased his nuttiness no end.

Not one but 2 schizophrenic mothers whose smoking shifted the balance from just having a tenuos grip on reality and right vs wrong to losing that fully.

One horrifically murdered her baby believing it was the devil. Was very very sorry when the cannabis out of system and boosted psyc drugs corrected the madness it had exacerbated.

Another mum left hospital with her schizophrenia well in control but took up the pot. Within 3 weeks had murdered her 9 year old daughter due to weird beliefs as a result of the dope counteracting her medicine.

There are many parents I know that will tell you that addiction to weed directly caused their late teens or twenty something kids to suicide by screwing up their heads. They make submissions every time this issue is before parliament.

I believe pot may also have featured in a case of murder/cannibalism.

40% of Northlanders to die in road crashes have recently used dope. Thru my job I know of many more innocent victims of drivers stoned JUST on marijuana.

The damage this drug causes is significant - particularly in the mental health area, even if it's little known.

Tell the family members that psych patients murder after a few days on weed (thanks Spudchucka) that it was harmless.

And the really awful thing is that if they fear their stoned schizo kid and try to get them committed psyc wards often will not admit someone who is stoned "because we can't really assess what is really going on - ie if this is mental illness truly rather than just transitory intoxication".

Marijuana is an absolute evil for some people and there is no knowing for who.
We all have no less than 700 neurotransmitter chemicals in our brains resposible for the smooth flow of thinking and emotional regulation. Dope upsets vital pathways in some people extremely.

Reefer madness is a US term for it I think and that understates. You canoften tell a patient who has been smoking buy their word salad ie scrambled thinking flow is evident from their sentences being disjointed in meaning and their paragraphs too.

Associations can loosen in 'normal' smokers but this is greatly exaggerated in psyc patients. So you will hear sentences like

"Green grass outside but who will cut the hair and scissors will cut off the french ladies head because a gillette razor is red with blood - his hair is red over there that guy in the white coat. I remember that means something bad so assuming the sign of the times is in exterior paint wants he to kill me..."

When you can't think straight you get anxious and can easily jump to the wrong conclusions ='s paranoia (as result of psychotic thought processes).
Nb. Not all para schizos have scrambly thoughts at times but many will.

On the good side it is clearly fairly benign for and enjoyed by some people whose brain chemistry is not on the wobbly easily imbalanced side.

I imagine that far greater numbers sit in between it being an evil for them and just a harmless recreation. From my observations the majority of users are dependent or addicted and their life is the worse for it in many areas eg antisocial, domestics, unmotivated, get fat, bad taste in casual sex as with alcohol, don't develop good stress coping skills etc.

I approve medical use for some types of pain and particularly MS and strokes.
Have nursed HIV patients here with dope that a Dr used to score and deliver for them.

Have been a live in nurse for a dying MS patient 40 years of age in a council flat in London. One of his most important basic cares was for me to regularly hold the joint to his mouth for pain relief. The nursing agency that hired me checked first that this would fit with my professional ethics. I agreed.

This drug worked best for this patient and he did not want to have clouded consciousness on heavier drugs. The fumes in the unventilated room stunk and I think that was a very 'relaxing' environment which made time pass even tho I hate smoking myself and don't. Passive smoking is much more tolerable.

Don't believe in gateway theory. It is what it is - chocolate for some, rat poison for others.

Ridiculous Police resources are poured in to it - megabiucks if y'all check norml website out and hundreds of thjousands of Police hours when women getting murdered can't even get help a 111. Those same resources could be used to reduce violent crime and the road toll and do early intervention with 'at risk' kids.

To my mind prohibition enforcement efforts are not justifiable. Thats messing with some peoples and whole communities incomes who will turn to nastier income streams if squeezed out as another said.

Decriminalise is my word on it - not a poll option. That wouuld also make medical use risk free for patients. Drs and nurses. But for god sakes keep it out of mental health patients hands. No such illness is helped by it regardless of what the Green nuts who wrote 'mental health use' into that med-pot bill are claiming. It is the arch enemy of mental health. An ingredient for chaos.

They have obviously been listening to paranoid schizos and don't realise that yes they say they like it "to reduce anxiety" but hey it also turns them into paranoid deluded certifiable often violent monsters (yet they forget this)!

[onearmedbandit]

I admit to only skim-reading your post, but I do agree with the point you make towards the end, which is decriminalisation is the better answer, not legalisation. If you read the entire thread you will know I am a regular smoker. I am one of the ones who continues to lead a productive life, who holds down a full-time job (although not currently, but that is completely unrelated), who pays his bills, who is a father to his children, and a supportive partner to my wife. In my walk of life, my friends who smoke are exactly the same. Parents, husbands, wives, workers, business owners, successful members of society. Not one of them is unbalanced, not one of them is your `public-perception` of a marijuana user. I`m not arguing the facts you present, rather supporting them. To that effect I agree, that there are those that are ok to use, regularly as well, those that are fine with the odd smoke, and then those that should not ever touch the stuff. Like most other substances available, man-made or natural.

Legalisation would, in my opinion, other make matters worse. Whereas decriminalisation (for a small amount) can only make the situation better. While in the circles I associate in the chances of me ever being charged are extremely remote, the fact that I could be is a concern. I travel overseas regularly, I don`t want to lose that freedom just for having a quiet smoke at home by myself or with some like-minded friends.

[Grahameeboy]

I admit to only skim-reading your post, but I do agree with the point you make towards the end, which is decriminalisation is the better answer, not legalisation. If you read the entire thread you will know I am a regular smoker. I am one of the ones who continues to lead a productive life, who holds down a full-time job (although not currently, but that is completely unrelated), who pays his bills, who is a father to his children, and a supportive partner to my wife. In my walk of life, my friends who smoke are exactly the same. Parents, husbands, wives, workers, business owners, successful members of society. Not one of them is unbalanced, not one of them is your `public-perception` of a marijuana user. I`m not arguing the facts you present, rather supporting them. To that effect I agree, that there are those that are ok to use, regularly as well, those that are fine with the odd smoke, and then those that should not ever touch the stuff. Like most other substances available, man-made or natural.

Legalisation would, in my opinion, other make matters worse. Whereas decriminalisation (for a small amount) can only make the situation better. While in the circles I associate in the chances of me ever being charged are extremely remote, the fact that I could be is a concern. I travel overseas regularly, I don`t want to lose that freedom just for having a quiet smoke at home by myself or with some like-minded friends.

I guess that some people could be unbalanced anyway and drugs tip things over......like alcoholism is said to be a genetic thing.

[idleidolidyll]

I'm not going to get suckered into a "bell curve" argument by a bunch of yay-sayers in the third standard deviation. Marijuana is not harmless, and neither are its current distribution and marketing systems. If it is going to be legalised it will need to be cheaper than the product is at present. And I'm a bit uncomfortable with making products like this cheaper and more readily available.

The main points reached in all three royal commission was that the policing of cannabis was far more harmful than the drug itself and that the drug was far less harmful than alcohol, tobacco and prescription drug abuse.

when the policing of something does more harm than the substance itself, it's time we saw sense and changed that philosophy.

[idleidolidyll]

You have a point. More Laws relating to what we cannot do just adds to the number of crimes committed I guess but on the other hand if drugs were made legal and the price goes up will this have a knock on effect on increase in crimes to pay for drugs or will the fact the drugs are no longer illusive make them cheaper?



Drug users

Drugs are ALREADY LEGAL: the difference is we've been psyched into not thinking of alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals as 'drugs'.

Like prohibition in the USA, our cannabis laws do more harm than good.

[SixPackBack]

waffle,waffle.

Your a Nurse not a Doctor. Your assertions are based on assumptions only.

As for manic depressants being 'tipped' over by cannabis; its much more likely to be a change in the season.

You do not mention the effect Alcohol has on the psych ward? or the massive cost to society Tobacco causes?

[Grahameeboy]

Drugs are ALREADY LEGAL: the difference is we've been psyched into not thinking of alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals as 'drugs'.

Like prohibition in the USA, our cannabis laws do more harm than good.

Agree totally.............................

[Grahameeboy]

Your a Nurse not a Doctor. Your assertions are based on assumptions only.

As for manic depressants being 'tipped' over by cannabis; its much more likely to be a change in the season.

You do not mention the effect Alcohol has on the psych ward? or the massive cost to society Tobacco causes?

Geeze....Nurse bashing now 1pack......you are stooping low and it's only 7.34am.................

[SixPackBack]

Geeze....Nurse bashing now 1pack......you are stooping low and it's only 7.34am.................


Think of me as the 'Simon Cowl' of KB......I have the balls to say what everyone else is thinking. Sorry its not wrapped in saccharine.

Are you stalking me Grahamee?....Just cos' I'm pretty doesn't mean I like boys.

[kro]

Crappy topic really. The nae sayers will always bring out the reports, and studies, and the yae sayers will do likewise. I have seen the effects of mj up close in workmates who can't remember what you asked them to do 3 minutes previous, and took shitloads of sick days, and were slack bastards on the whole, to the other end of the spectrum, of what I deem as truly recreational users, who maybe fire up once a week, as their Friday "treat", who have not had a sick day in 2 years, and have wickedly strong work ethics, and are regular joe dads/mums/sisters/uncles etc.

This seems to be the dividing line, either you're an addict, or a rec' user. Unfortunately the addicts fuck it up for the rec users, and as is the case nearly worldwide, the legislation is focused on the negative spin the addicts give the drug, and thus, it becomes illegal.

I have partaken in the green perhaps half a dozen times in my life, and have always taken a very defensive approach to it, because I know I have a very addictive personality, and would go over the top, if I was to try it long term.

I have nfi what would happen if it was decrim'd.

[Grahameeboy]

Think of me as the 'Simon Cowl' of KB......I have the balls to say what everyone else is thinking. Sorry its not wrapped in saccharine.

Are you stalking me Grahamee?....Just cos' I'm pretty doesn't mean I like boys.

Crystal Balls?....................

[SixPackBack]

Crystal Balls?....................

Crystal palace:rockon:

[scumdog]

You do not mention the effect Alcohol has on the psych ward? or the massive cost to society Tobacco causes?[/FONT]

That's because we are talking about cannabis.

Dork.

[SixPackBack]

That's because we are talking about cannabis.

Dork.

Thats Sir Sixpack to you pig. Perhaps if you didn't drink so much you may remember the new directive.

Any mention of Cannabis in the wider scheme requires at least a passing mention to Alcohol and Tobacco as both do far more damage.

[Joni]

Six and Scummy... please dont extend this arguement to other threads as well.

Keep it to the cop thread please! The rest of KB dont want to watch the 2 of you go head to head in every thread.

If you have such a serious issue with each other, the ignore feature on KB is a wonder...

:zzzz:

[idleidolidyll]

Geeze....Nurse bashing now 1pack......you are stooping low and it's only 7.34am.................

I welcome the commets from the nurse but I stll consider the three government investigations far more thorough.
I noted some cause/effect issues in the nurses post (just because patients smoke dope does NOT mean that's the CAUSE of their problems) but they were posted in an honest and reasonable manner and are welcome in this discussion as far as I'm concerned.

If you really want to be informed on this subject, download the latest (2003) Government Select Committe Inquiry into cannabis, it's dangers, the policing and recommendations: http://www.clerk.parliament.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/571B77EC-27CF-41AA-8364-7800E36A214D/13988/DBSCH_SCR_2531_23991.pdf

If you cruise the smarter cannabis law reform websites in NZ, you'll see that most suggest decriminalisation rather than legalisation. Those that do favour legalisation also suggest eduaction, laws and policing that aim at prevention of harm and restriction to kids and teens as their brains are not formed fully yet (note: pharmaceuticals and alcohol are equally nasty to young brains)

The report finds that: "The Government's policies on cannabis are not working and should be reviewed, says a parliamentary committee. The health select committee is also repeating its call for the Government to reconsider the illegality of the drug."


Government again failed to act of course. Their reply sidestepped the issue and it's clear that prohibition of cannabis is a political issue not a health or safety issue. Here's the Govt reply to the Select Committe Inquiry that suggested they rethink cannabis law and rethink the lagal status of the plant: http://www.beehive.govt.nz/Documents/Files/Cannabis-Government%20Response.PDF


Here's Nandor's response to the Govt reply to the committe: http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/pr6880.html


Now rather than post non expert personal opinion, scaremongering or context free anecdotes, I suggest you read the three items thoroughly and come to some informed opinions.


The last two inquiries can also be located but obviously the latest one is usually the most valuable. However, the earlier ones also suggested that the law was an ass and that it should be changed because POLICING IS DOING MORE HARM THAN THE DRUG.

[scumdog]

Six and Scummy... please dont extend this arguement to other threads as well.

Keep it to the cop thread please! The rest of KB dont want to watch the 2 of you go head to head in every thread.

If you have such a serious issue with each other, the ignore feature on KB is a wonder...

:zzzz:

No worries Joni - just that SPB is my No.1 "trolling target/fish in the barrel to shoot" type person.

And I didn't think of it as an 'argument', more of a refuting of comments sent my way by SPB in his attempts to quell my exuberance...or something:shutup:

[terbang]

Our society is getting dumb enough by itself without the help of NZ Green..!

[Teflon]

I more worried about the depressed Kb people going postal.. than some stoner smoking a joint and then eventually falling a sleep..

[idleidolidyll]

and here's another reply identifying the governments cowardly rejection of the Health Committe Inquiry:

Govt cannabis response loathsome & mealy-mouthed

Monday, 3 November 2003, 9:10 am
Press Release: Mild Greens<!--first blockquote gone!-->
Govt’s cannabis response ‘loathsome and mealy-mouthed’Mild Greens say that government ministers, instead of receiving fat and unearned pay increases, deserve to be tried and condemned for perpetuating human rights abuses as a matter of policy.
Ass. Health Minister Jim Anderton’s formal response to the Health Select Committee cannabis inquiry is typically shallow and manipulative. It sends a crude message to young NZers in particular that our leaders are still fobber-offers, bullies and hypocrites, pretending there is no issue with 300,000 being falsely accused as criminals.”
Anderton, in downplaying any need to look further at law reform (as recommended 3 months ago), states that govt. has taken the lead in education programmes to alert young people to the dangers of cannabis use.
Seemingly long forgotten, however, is the 1998 Parliament's crucial recognition that the double standards surrounding marijuana [viz. alcohol and tobacco] are an impediment to effective, credible anti-drug education.
“Prohibition has not been shown to be safe, precautionary nor credible - nor effective, appropriate, nor reasonable – nor mandated.”
Moreover, the persecution regime fails all ethical and quality standards under the Government's official Harm Minimisation criteria (principles which include cost effectiveness, equity, harm-reduction, and 'upholding individual rights where these do not unreasonably impinge on others'…)
But Labour Party ministers, conspicuously silent about their still unresolved 1998 commitment to responsibly review the legal status, are hedging on minnow-progressive-leader Anderton's ‘views’ as the de-facto policy standard by which we measure good community outcomes.
"So much for evidence-based best-practice harm minimisation - and so much for good governance".
The Mild Greens say politicians whose own political parties score well below 5% of the general election vote should be banned from saying the word “mandate”.


"And is important to note that Jim Anderton is not exactly a success story when it comes to kids nd drugs, mental illness, suicide etc."
Mr. Anderton, more than most New Zealanders should know the ultimate harms that can befall families under the prohibition, but the same failed and non-credible regime is all he has to offer other New Zealanders.
Any young NZ'er who does a school project on cannabis policy in NZ will discover very quickly that there is a track record of Government and other community leaders pretending that criminalising is righteous, despite all the evidence demonstrating the Law is held in contempt as a stupid, unjust and costly crime-creating failure. (No doubt the teacher will require that the student rewrite the report to ‘focus on the harms of cannabis’…)
Mild Greens recommend that adults should continue to use marijuana as safely as possible under the circumstances (e.g. by eating or vaporising), and tell the police in no uncertain terms to ‘butt out and go solve some real crime’ if hassled.
“Standing up for what we believe works for us.”
According to the reformers, conscientious objection to the policy crock & subversion-of-democratic-process is an entirely plausible defence for justifying cannabis cultivation and use, under the Bill of Rights Act 1990 (freedom of religion/ manifestation of ethical belief).
”New Zealanders are entitled to a harm reduction context and legal age limit CONSISTENT with alcohol and tobacco, as heard by the Health Select Committee up and down the country in 2001, and in line with the 27-year Dutch precedent for a non-coercive and tolerant approach.”
N.B. The Annual Mild Greens “toilet brush” award goes to former Health Select Committee chair and ex-Otaki MP. Judy Keall, who having heard evidence which by her own admission convinced her ‘all drugs should be legalised’ turned around and ensured that her committee was too busy and disorganised to write up the truth they witnessed at the 2001 inquiry hearings...

[scumdog]

If you cruise the smarter cannabis law reform websites in NZ, you'll see that most suggest decriminalisation rather than legalisation. Those that do favour legalisation also suggest eduaction, laws and policing that aim at prevention of harm and restriction to kids and teens as their brains are not formed fully yet (note: pharmaceuticals and alcohol are equally nasty to young brains)
.

The cynic in me feels that the above "education, laws and policing that aim at prevention of harm and restriction to kids and teens" will have the same effect on the young users of cannabis that it is having on the young users of alcohol... virtually none....

[idleidolidyll]

I more worried about the depressed Kb people going postal.. than some stoner smoking a joint and then eventually falling a sleep..

rotflmfao! yep, anger is more an issue than passivity. THAT is one of the reasons alcohol is a far more dangerous drug (apart from the fact that alcohol kills as a direct result of an overdose while cannabis has never been conclusively proven to have killed anyone)

[idleidolidyll]

The cynic in me feels that the above "education, laws and policing that aim at prevention of harm and restriction to kids and teens" will have the same effect on the young users of cannabis that it is having on the young users of alcohol... virtually none....

One of the most ridiculous pieces of legislation in recent years was the lowering of the drinking age. All that did was make it easier for those most at risk to get their drug.

That however, is nothing compared to the harm cannabis laws continue to do to society. At least because alcohol is legal, there can be good advertising and education programs on how to manage it's use and on the harm that it does to youth in particular.

My bet is that most people opposed to cannabis use a far worse drug: alcohol. Of those people, I also suggest that most use it responsibly. There would be no difference if cannabis was legal; most would use it responsibly and a few would abuse it. However, the big difference is that abuse of cannabis is nowhere near as harmful as abuse of alcohol, prescription drugs etc, you know; the ones the politicians, priests and cops use.

[Patrick]

Don't like the the idea of legal. Do that and the whole thing becomes commercial. I have supported de-criminalization for some time now. I fail to see how someone having a smoke in their home is acting in the same manner as burgler, or any other acts of a criminal nature. If someone wants to grow and give away I have no problem but to sell that's a commercial act as it is now. Take away the money and you destroy a lot of problems.

Skyryder

Take away the money and they move on to something else... They are moving on to "P" now as there is more $$$ to be made... its called a "progression."

De-criminalise and issue an instant fine ticket could work... wonder if there would be quotas involved?

[idleidolidyll]

For those interested in facts instead of uninformed opinion, scaremongering and context free anecdotes, New Scientist has a good resource on actual scientific research into drugs and alcohol, including of course, cannabis.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/drugs-alcohol

[Patrick]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]As long as the evil tobacco and alcohol are legal so should all drugs, hell they should be commercialised.

Yep... that'll work.... NOT!!!!!!!!!

"P" for free... catchy marketing slogan perhaps?

[Patrick]

Besides decriminalising cannabis would remove another benign group for the cops to harass and tazer. Decriminalising or legalising in any form effectively decreases workload for the pigs, naturally they will never agree to any moves that may threaten jobs.

Guess they could always reinforce highway patrol giving speeding tickets, now thats REAL crime<_<

I doubt many, if any, stoners get Tazered... way too mellow usually...

[Patrick]

just saw this thread.

trouble with a poll like this is it is NOT absolutely confidential and we all know there are cops lurking on KB.
I wouldn't expect those who do use to answer in the affirmative in NZ given that our prisons are full of victimless criminals already.

So it does make you paranoid after all?????????

"Prisons are FULL of VICTIMLESS CRIMINALS?????" What have you been smoking?????

[Patrick]

Scummy both you and the police are not even remotely attached to reality.

Must be all the piss you consume huh?

I take you still don't understand what Scummy is saying??? He was agreeing with you on the alcohol thing... adding another bad thing to the pool is not a good thing. Get it now?

[Krusti]

My bet is that most people opposed to cannabis use a far worse drug: alcohol. Of those people, I also suggest that most use it responsibly. There would be no difference if cannabis was legal; most would use it responsibly and a few would abuse it. However, the big difference is that abuse of cannabis is nowhere near as harmful as abuse of alcohol, prescription drugs etc, you know; the ones the politicians, priests and cops use.

As I have said earlier, it is socially acceptable for me to be physically addicted to a perscription pain killer. I have not met many people who have even batted an eyelid when told by me.

It is not a problem for me personally because at this point in time I need to take something on a regular basis but as an experiment and to prove to my doctor that I was right I took myself off these pills a few months ago. I lasted one and a half days! My body went into withdrawl and it was not pleasent.

Will have to wean off them slowly when I need to but it proved to me that, as I had suspected, my body had a physical need for these pills.

My point is that if I had told these same people that I was smoking dope as a pain reliever then they would have been mortified.

I don't, I won't but I probably should smoke instead.

[Patrick]

One of the most ridiculous pieces of legislation in recent years was the lowering of the drinking age. All that did was make it easier for those most at risk to get their drug.

Another, just as ridiculous, could be the legalising of cannabis perhaps?

[idleidolidyll]

I doubt many, if any, stoners get Tazered... way too mellow usually...

It's a good point though: if the overpolicing of cannabis was removed, cops would be more free to police REAL crime

[idleidolidyll]

Another, just as ridiculous, could be the legalising of cannabis perhaps?

unlikely: cannabis use in Holland, where it is as good as legal, is considerably LOWER than in NZ.

Interestingly, cannabis 'addiction' or half that of alcohol by user group and cannabis addiction As per the report) is psychological NOT physical. Kinda makes the point that criminality preventing education CAN be used to overcome psychological addiction.

That's what I mean about inexpert opinions; I humbly suggest you go read the Health Committee report (sure I can be humble).

[idleidolidyll]

So it does make you paranoid after all?????????

"Prisons are FULL of VICTIMLESS CRIMINALS?????" What have you been smoking?????


Health committee report: there is no substantive evidence to support the opinion that cannabis makes you paranoid

[idleidolidyll]

So it does make you paranoid after all?????????

"Prisons are FULL of VICTIMLESS CRIMINALS?????" What have you been smoking?????

so obviously it's NOT the drug making people paranoid; it's the harm the law and its policing is doing that makes people paranoid

[idleidolidyll]

I take you still don't understand what Scummy is saying??? He was agreeing with you on the alcohol thing... adding another bad thing to the pool is not a good thing. Get it now?

dumb argument: pharmaceuticals add new drugs to the market every single year.


more sensible argument: prohibition does more harm than good and prevents realistic education and supports gangs and other criminals who oppose the legality of cannabis as their income would diminish drastically.

[oldrider]

My brain pays for my petrol. No chance in hell I'll consider to try anything potentially harmful for its functioning. If you want to fsck up yours, that's your own problem as long as you stay off the road and don't threaten to kill me or anybody else. I say, other than that, the only law governing drug use should be Darwin's.

I tend to be a bit of a "Libertarian" in my political thoughts.

I voted for No4 and Street Gerbil has echoed my own attitude to the topic!

Let Darwin sort out the abusers :eek5: but please not at taxpayers expense. :oi-grr: John.

[idleidolidyll]

As I have said earlier, it is socially acceptable for me to be physically addicted to a perscription pain killer. I have not met many people who have even batted an eyelid when told by me.

It is not a problem for me personally because at this point in time I need to take something on a regular basis but as an experiment and to prove to my doctor that I was right I took myself off these pills a few months ago. I lasted one and a half days! My body went into withdrawl and it was not pleasent.

Will have to wean off them slowly when I need to but it proved to me that, as I had suspected, my body had a physical need for these pills.

My point is that if I had told these same people that I was smoking dope as a pain reliever then they would have been mortified.

I don't, I won't but I probably should smoke instead.

a little over 2 years ago i broke my back, was paralysed for 4 months, operated on and can walk again although still have no sensation in a good part of my right side.
for more a year i had chronic pain and without sleeping pills, didn't get a wink of sleep (nerve damage and spinal chord damage, which I have, are a causes of insomnia).

One day when visiting a good friend (thanks Nig), I was offered a joint and told it would probably help (no, not the first in my life).

It certainly did and I stopped taking 8-12 tramol a day, 16-20 paracetamol a day and 2 sleeping pills a day.

Yes, I still get pain (managable with THC...oops, TLC :yes:) but at least I can sleep and my stomach etc won't be damaged by those high pharmaceuticals (that much tramol a day makes a person far more dopey than cannabis BTW).

[idleidolidyll]

Best reason for motorcyclists to use cannabis?:

It makes you ride better!

Well that was my observation yesterday. Saw a fellow rider smoke a joint then saw him ride better than I have ever seen him ride; way better.

Ok, OK! It WAS a non scientific piece of research but that's what I saw.

Strangely enough, many cannabis users state that they can concentrate better on the task in hand after a puff. They say it helps block out extraneous stuff that usually distracts.

Pity the NZACU people were poisoned by the influence of a cop and now will ban people for having any cannabis in them even if they are not stoned and it was taken a week ago.

Strangely (NOT!), they don't ban alcoholics; hell, they even seem to encourage those folk!

[SixPackBack]

Yep... that'll work.... NOT!!!!!!!!!

"P" for free... catchy marketing slogan perhaps?

Maybe, maybe not. It would within a generation significantly strengthen the gene pool. Treat the masses like children and naturally they behave as such, give them an informed and HONEST choice the result is rather suprising [et al Holland].

Another most important, misunderstood side effect would be the lack of patronising mixed messages emanating from the government. Perhaps then we could have an honest view of drugs per se instead of the current regime that sees tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs pushed and thc as an evil.

I know I am wasting my time preaching to the police, as previously stated legalising cannabis would effectively take work away from them, it is after all in their best interest to create as many repeat criminals as possible.

[Patrick]

dumb argument: pharmaceuticals add new drugs to the market every single year.


more sensible argument: prohibition does more harm than good and prevents realistic education and supports gangs and other criminals who oppose the legality of cannabis as their income would diminish drastically.

Dumber argument... the "Pool" already includes your pharmaceuticals...

Gangs will move on to the harder stuff, but many already into that, just to make their $$$... Encourage gangs to move onto harder more devastating drugs is what you are saying.

[Patrick]

Health committee report: there is no substantive evidence to support the opinion that cannabis makes you paranoid

Wife: made her paranoid!

Case proved.... stuff the reports...

[Patrick]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I know I am wasting my time preaching to the police, as previously stated legalising cannabis would effectively take work away from them, it is after all in their best interest to create as many repeat criminals as possible.

So dope users become repeat criminals? Thanks for that, we thought so too...

[idleidolidyll]

Dumber argument... the "Pool" already includes your pharmaceuticals...

Gangs will move on to the harder stuff, but many already into that, just to make their $$$... Encourage gangs to move onto harder more devastating drugs is what you are saying.

real reason cannabis is still illegal?

business hasn'rt figured out how to tax it yet and the ease with which it can be grown means they're afraid of losing other revenue

another reason: ignorant conservatives religious fundies are opposed to anything their mythical deity might possibly have disliked (or at least their version of some deity)

and yes, lots of cops get to keep their jobs

[idleidolidyll]

So dope users become repeat criminals? Thanks for that, we thought so too...

of course they do, that's a no brainer

1 joint on monday = 1 court case

1 joint on saturdy = another court case

giving any to your mates = another court case

buying any from a tinnie house because it's hard to find through safer means = another court case

growing it because you don't want to have anything to do with gangs = another court case

it's the gift that keeps on giving for coppers

[idleidolidyll]

Wife: made her paranoid!

Case proved.... stuff the reports...

more likely: wife was already paranoid, dope made it obvious

[SixPackBack]

So dope users become repeat criminals? Thanks for that, we thought so too...

They are criminals for no other reason than using pot.

And please refrain from using we [the police] and thought in the same sentence. Fortunately [or maybe unfortunatley] you do not get paid to "think".

[avgas]

As much as i despise dope. I think it should be legal. Its just as bad as cigarettes, cars, alcohol.....but like all these things its a personal choice.
If you chose to smoke dope, you choose to be a looser, drive a prelude.......making that person a criminal is just waste of the courts time.
If they made eating rubarb illegal, or drinking coffee illegal - what would be the difference?
I ride a bike, and will do so when it becomes illegal - some dope smokers feel the same.

[Patrick]

more likely: wife was already paranoid, dope made it obvious

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...... You clearly don't know her do you...??? Was funny actually... never mind...

[Patrick]

They are criminals for no other reason than using pot.

And please refrain from using we [the police] and thought in the same sentence. Fortunately [or maybe unfortunatley] you do not get paid to "think".

Oops...my bad, couldn't help myself... I always do it, and get paid for it too.... As you were...

Most you will find that we deal with are actually into burgs and other crime, a history check just confirms it.. The hard worker who enjoys a J in privacy at home with the wife isn't the problem and contrary to popular belief on here, I don't give a rats arse.

Personally, small amounts for personal use is not a problem.

[spudchucka]

They are criminals for no other reason than using pot.

And please refrain from using we [the police] and thought in the same sentence. Fortunately [or maybe unfortunatley] you do not get paid to "think".

Not before time.....


This message is hidden because SixPackBack is on your ignore list.

[spudchucka]

it's the gift that keeps on giving for coppers

Really? How much smoking & growing goes undetected? Surely if the cops were so onto busting smokers the pot heads in this thread wouldn't be conversing in the way they currently are because their arses would have already been busted and they'd be playing mummies & daddies with Bubba.

[idleidolidyll]

Really? How much smoking & growing goes undetected? Surely if the cops were so onto busting smokers the pot heads in this thread wouldn't be conversing in the way they currently are because their arses would have already been busted and they'd be playing mummies & daddies with Bubba.

no, that only confirms the whole thing is a waste of time because even with some of the most intense policing of cannabis in the world and similarly biggest imprisonment, the cops and govt can't wipe it out.

less is used per head in Holland where it's virtually legal

what a massive waste of resources

[idleidolidyll]

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...... You clearly don't know her do you...??? Was funny actually... never mind...

of course i don't, it was just the closest quip to the end of my tongue

[smoky]

less is used per head in Holland where it's virtually legal

I went to Amsterdam once (4 or 5 times actually), what surprised me was - although it was legal it was still mainly used by; and reflected a culture of the lower socio class of people (in the kaffe’s anyway).

There’s a way of thinking, of existing that can transport you on to a higher plane, rising above normative carnal life – but few will find it.

Failing that if you want a legal high – try smoking Kat Nip, it works.

:rockon:

[spudchucka]

no, that only confirms the whole thing is a waste of time because even with some of the most intense policing of cannabis in the world and similarly biggest imprisonment, the cops and govt can't wipe it out.

less is used per head in Holland where it's virtually legal

what a massive waste of resources

I don't think anyone ever suggested it could be wiped out, its more about just keeping the lid on the trash can.

[onearmedbandit]

Really? How much smoking & growing goes undetected? Surely if the cops were so onto busting smokers the pot heads in this thread wouldn't be conversing in the way they currently are because their arses would have already been busted and they'd be playing mummies & daddies with Bubba.


Excuse me, but just because I smoke it doesn`t make me a `pothead`. I take exception to your statement, and am actually disappointed by it. But nonetheless, I won`t let it bother me any further.

[candor]

Prolly just comes in handy to keep it on the 'crime' list as then Police can use any finds for leverage to enlist narcs etc. Saves them having to go planting little white bags of milk sugar powder on people they then allege is class A in the hope of gathering intelligence re harder drugs, like how CHCH drug squad must stoop to do.

6bp - nurses are smarter and usually know more about their specialty area than your average Drs (thats why nurse specialists who've often trained longer than Drs prescribe medicines now) so... not sure what you're getting at.

But there is plenty of scientific evidence above and beyond the anecdotes myself and zillions of other Drs, nurses etc could tell you that dope does exacerbate psychotic illness as surely as night follows day. 2 boring and technical to get into. I find most people just like to know how the science all impacts on real life events. Too hard explaining psychosis / psychopharmacology to people that don't know their gaba from their dopamine soz.

its not obligatory to throw alcohol and ciggys in to such discussions I don't think - unless you are a confirmed THC-bot with well rehearsed lines. Now I'm just waiting for ppl to mention Souza, the head harm minimisation guru - and the ex US police Commissioner who supports legalisation. Then this thread will be complete.

Incidentally Idle, some articles I've seen say that dope use went UP 40% after they changed Dutch law.

[avgas]

Incidentally Idle, some articles I've seen say that dope use went UP 40% after they changed Dutch law.
I read the same...however.... it also stated that while it went up 40% this was concentrated in a target population. And that per head, the average dropped. It became a more or less more concentrated within the addicts, as it was no longer considered a difficult task.
I also agree that nurses are smart cookies, as the nurses i studied with were up 70% of the time i was (i was stupid). They also seem to be more realistic. However without a Thesis - if they have any knowledge on a particular matter. It is difficult for them to communicate it to the medical world. Hence the research based nurses end up becoming doctors to get heard.
I have one simple philosophy in life, you live to enjoy life, as long as your enjoyment doesn't hurt no one else, you are fine.
I used to be a very heavy dope smoker - it didn't hurt anybody, but i forced myself to do better for myself. It took many years (in fact i still find it hard if someone sparks up near me), but i did it.
But why should i take the side of forcing my thoughts down another dope smokers throat. They don't shove their opinions down mine. Just because they smoke it does not affect me at all. Its their natural choice to fuck themselves up. If its not something thats grown, I'm sure they would find a processed alternative. Choose the best of 2 evils.

[onearmedbandit]

. Its their natural choice to fuck themselves up


Another comment I take exception to. It may have `fucked` you up, but it sure as hell ain`t fucking me up. Speak for yourself. I know people who have been `fucked up` because of motorbikes, cars, crossing the road, drinking alcohol. Just because some have, doesn`t mean that applies to everyone.

[spudchucka]

Excuse me, but just because I smoke it doesn`t make me a `pothead`. I take exception to your statement, and am actually disappointed by it. But nonetheless, I won`t let it bother me any further.

I get called a pig, (amongst other things) directly all the time on this forum, my comment was not aimed at you directly, it was just a generalisation.

I don't take any exception to name calling generally, until it gets really personal; so I'm pleased that you won't let it bother you beyond the post you made about it.

[Smoggie]

Still prefer a good cigar and glass of single malt.

[Patrick]

... Saves them having to go planting little white bags of milk sugar powder on people they then allege is class A in the hope of gathering intelligence re harder drugs, like how CHCH drug squad must stoop to do.


Yeah, riiiiiiiiiight.....

First hand experience? Or another urban fairytale or myth....... or was it something you saw on "The Shield" or a video???:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz:

I think I saw that episode in "The Shield."

[SixPackBack]

...................

[idleidolidyll]

How disappointing:

I posted the direct link to the NZ Health Committee Report, New Zealand's last major investigation into the 'harm' of cannabis, as well as the Government reply to their own report AND a link to scientific reports on a database at New Scientist.............then what happens?

The naysayers still bleat on with their predjudices, their silly context free anecdotes and none seem to have bothered reading anything.

Once again for those too lazy to read:

Apart from similar damage to young brains still being formed as that which alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals cause, there is no evidence of real harm caused by cannabis long term or short term.
In addition: the harm that IS caused is not caused by the drug itself but by the overzealous policing of the drug.

Why isn't it legal?

Because criminals don't want it legal, that would kill their business.

Because big busibess doesn't want it legal, they can't make money from it and it would hurt other busu=iness.

Because bigotted people are ignorant of the facts and although they are likely to indulge in worse drugs like alcohol and tobacco, they refuse to let others have their harmless drug of choice.

Because a number of religious crackpots don't like it.

Because Police don't like it, even though they indulge in worse drugs and it would take away their jobs.

Most importantly though, cannabis is illegal becasuse politicians refuse to accept the findings of three government initiated investigations into it and don't have the balls to tell the groups above to fuck off.

[Grahameeboy]

How disappointing:

I posted the direct link to the NZ Health Committee Report, New Zealand's last major investigation into the 'harm' of cannabis, as well as the Government reply to their own report AND a link to scientific reports on a database at New Scientist.............then what happens?

The naysayers still bleat on with their predjudices, their silly context free anecdotes and none seem to have bothered reading anything.

Once again for those too lazy to read:

Apart from similar damage to young brains still being formed as that which alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals cause, there is no evidence of real harm caused by cannabis long term or short term.
In addition: the harm that IS caused is not caused by the drug itself but by the overzealous policing of the drug.

Why isn't it legal?

Because criminals don't want it legal, that would kill their business.

Because big busibess doesn't want it legal, they can't make money from it and it would hurt other busu=iness.

Because bigotted people are ignorant of the facts and although they are likely to indulge in worse drugs like alcohol and tobacco, they refuse to let others have their harmless drug of choice.

Because a number of religious crackpots don't like it.

Because Police don't like it, even though they indulge in worse drugs and it would take away their jobs.

Most importantly though, cannabis is illegal becasuse politicians refuse to accept the findings of three government initiated investigations into it and don't have the balls to tell the groups above to fuck off.

The North Shore Times has an article along these lines too..

[idleidolidyll]

So back to the original question:

No, ya don't need to support ALCP at elections to promote sensible cannabis laws.

Your choices could be:

ACLP: legalise
Greens: decriminlaise
Labour: possibility of decriminalisation
National: no posibility of any sensible laws
ACT: decriminalise
NZ First: who cares, they're a dead duck

[jahrasti]

If you are in/going for a job and test positive then that can effect your employment, But if you could smoke, there have to be a level that is acceptable so if you drive your truck on the road or whateva if you had had a joint 8 hrs before( same way rule of thumb about stopping drinking 8 hrs before to sober up) could it be proven whether you were under the influence.
Look at Carter Holt when they started introducing testing, the accident rate dropped significantly, as we all know the bush workers used to/Probably still do smoke up a storm.
I think it should be decriminalised socially but concerned about the work place environment as like piss someone stoned could easily make a fuck up that costs lives that if they were straight might not have happened.

[Storm]

I think it should be decriminalised socially but concerned about the work place environment as like piss someone stoned could easily make a fuck up that costs lives that if they were straight might not have happened.

I'm with him- I dont want someone who'se head is f%^k knows where in the clouds operating machinery or playing with electricity anywhere near me

[idleidolidyll]

I'm with him- I dont want someone who'se head is f%^k knows where in the clouds operating machinery or playing with electricity anywhere near me

i doubt many at all would like someone in charge of anything that could do damage or kill someone, stoned, pissed or in any other way incapacitiated and unable to think and act clearly.

that however, is not an argument against decriminalisation or legalisation, it's an argument for education and control to a similar degree as alcohol and tobacco etc.

the bullshit part of the current drug testing is that even a month after someone has smoked a joint, traces remain and these traces, although causing no noticable impariment, are being used to ban people racing motorcycles, ban them from certain work etc.

However, someone with a massive hangover from a drunk the day before is quite likely to be legally able to drive, operate machinery and put people in danger.

[Mole_C]

Look at Carter Holt when they started introducing testing, the accident rate dropped significantly, as we all know the bush workers used to/Probably still do smoke up a storm.

Could just be because health and safety have cracked down on all unsafe practises in general. But i do agree, just like drinking and working you should not smoke and work. However these drug tests should not be able to make you loose your job just because you want to have a smoke in the weekend like they do now.

[jahrasti]

Could just be because health and safety have cracked down on all unsafe practises in general. But i do agree, just like drinking and working you should not smoke and work. However these drug tests should not be able to make you loose your job just because you want to have a smoke in the weekend like they do now.

Thats what I was trying to say, if it was legal there needs to be a conclusive test like the alcohol breath test.

[jahrasti]

i doubt many at all would like someone in charge of anything that could do damage or kill someone, stoned, pissed or in any other way incapacitiated and unable to think and act clearly.

that however, is not an argument against decriminalisation or legalisation, it's an argument for education and control to a similar degree as alcohol and tobacco etc.

the bullshit part of the current drug testing is that even a month after someone has smoked a joint, traces remain and these traces, although causing no noticable impariment, are being used to ban people racing motorcycles, ban them from certain work etc.[

However, someone with a massive hangover from a drunk the day before is quite likely to be legally able to drive, operate machinery and put people in danger.[QUOTE=jahrasti;1005567], But if you could smoke, there have to be a level that is acceptable so if you drive your truck on the road or whateva if you had had a joint 8 hrs before( same way rule of thumb about stopping drinking 8 hrs before to sober up) QUOTE]


Thats my point

[avgas]

Another comment I take exception to. It may have `fucked` you up, but it sure as hell ain`t fucking me up. Speak for yourself. I know people who have been `fucked up` because of motorbikes, cars, crossing the road, drinking alcohol. Just because some have, doesn`t mean that applies to everyone.
Sorry OAB, it wasn't aimed at dope smokers, but people in general. More a case of "You choose your own poison in life". We all do stuff in our lives which isnt good for us. That is the purpose of living. Sorry again if you took this personally - it was just a response for the naysayers on this forum who seem to take offense because people smoke dope. Trying to explain to them that 'they' (as in anyone) can choose what ever 'they' to do with their lives so long as 'they' dont mess with yours.
Dope doesn't fuck you up when you smoke it. It fucks you up when you try and quit. But then again so does everything in the world.

[candor]

Yeah, riiiiiiiiiight.....

First hand experience? Or another urban fairytale or myth....... or was it something you saw on "The Shield" or a video???:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz:

I think I saw that episode in "The Shield."

First hand experience. PCA complaint filed in 2000.

My report in brief Officer. Went to Paparua Prison to visit my cousin who was inside in relation to a million dollar cocaine haul either that lag or the one shortly before it ("L Minhinnick his name - front page CHCH Press late 1980's).

I was working at Sunnyside Hospital as afternoon floating pool nurse. It was only my second visit in jail to this relative on a long lag but I never made it. Inside the gate the drug squad had set up a checkpoint. I got out of car as requested and the moronic looking dog handler nudged his dog toward me.

It wagged its tail and edged forward then the moron said "indications of drugs on this one". WTF! I was taken to a tent and searched with my back to the car. On my return one cop was removing a bottle of stuff called AA that druggies use from my boot before my very eyes.

Another one was pulling a bag of white powder and two panadol pills out of my handbag. Only the panadol pills were there originally.

A thirtyish blonde headed short slight blue eyed bastard in mufti called Dean Burrel (?sp) who was apparently the head of the drug squad took me aside and aggressively informed me that it appeared they had found some class A in my possession and that would be very bad for me being a nurse wouldn't it.

This fore knowledge of my career background put a very fine point on it of the fact it was a set up. I told the wanker that I do not take drugs, never have apart from the usual couple of puffs as a teenager so I would not have a clue what it was but that I'm sure he knew since it all belonged to him.

I was not arrested or charged. I was prevented from visiting my cousin that day and have not since. I am today in a quandary as I'd LIKE to visit him as he is back inside again butI'm not willing to risk harrassment.

I told Dean Burrel to drug test me with a urine tst if he had ne to prove I'm nit a druggy and that he is barking up the wrong tree. I left and went straightaway to a Dr and got a urine and blood drug test on advice of senior nurse friends in case it was needed as character evidence in court.

Burrel then proceeded to telephone me several times over the next 2 weeks saying that if I wanted to avoid a hefty imprisonment whch is the natural outcome of class A then I'd be co-operative and come in to the station to talk some things through.

All I could find out from others was that they suspected the person I was visiting had some money as proceeds of crime stashed away, and that cops had been trying to track it down. Prolly this was there main interest??

My lawyer Nick Routt in CHCH said not to go and talk to them. Next time Burrel rang I asked if they had got the stuff tested so we knew what it was. He said 'testing is expensive - we're just hoping you'll tell us'. I said well I'm hoping you'll tell me since its yours. He then kept saying that I must know a few things if I know Minhinnick.

I assured him that apart from knowing Minhinnick is related I did not know his criminal business but even if did I'm better raised than to tattle as my grandfather was in the war and very clear on that.

Burrel was quite nasty and kept threatening that I'd lose my career. I felt both angry and intimidated and treated him like the shit he is. He said if I won't come to the station can he come visit me. I said certainly not.

In the end in one last phone call he said that the (planted) material had been analysed. One thing was a bottle of AA (stuff used to make homebake but not illicit apparently), the other was ?galactose which he said was milk sugar used to cut cocaine. "But you already knew that I said" and requested a copy of the ESR analyses results which he never was able to produce.

The wanka had to have the last word and said 'well we know these items are not innocent and that this does go to show you are involved etc etc"
On that note we said goodbye. I went to Police complaints authority. They were typically useless but it is apparently still worth doing it said my lawyer as then patterns can be noticed with bad cops like burrell.

Burrel was doing some anti drug speeches re P lately. The local Maoris were a bit dubious of him. I told them his form at a marae and he quick lost credibility. My advice to young cops is that if you want to be effective don't be dirty! Its NOT nice.

Burrel really picked on the wrong person. I am a anti drug as it gets. I know lots of druggies who can testify that they have tried to get drugs out of me (the type nurses can pinch with great risk and difficulty). I always said NO, plus I'm pretty famous for being a non drug user. What a twit.

Dean Burrel - DB must stand for dum blonde. The ends does not justify the means tho I'd support cops that played with evidence or used dirty tricks to nail rapists and killers. Not just to nab dealer addicts and further their careers tho! Integrity has to kick in at some point.

[candor]

...................

On 60 000 as a third year nurse with one lot of overtime weekly at Porirua I got more than junior Drs thankyou. Yes we're paid for our brains. The Drs do what we tell them most of the time not the other way around. Many is the time a consultant asks us "which drugs does this patient respond to."

Some Drs working there could not even speak English to interview patients which made them completely dependent on advice of nurses re symptoms and diagnosis. Drs rarely see patients - we fill in for them as our training preps us to do most of the time.

I had one Dr take it from a patients body language that the patient was suicidal and try to commit him. When the patient did not say that at all. This Indian Dr had to learn to listen to the nursing staff.

[SixPackBack]

.......................

[SixPackBack]

........................

[candor]

the bullshit part of the current drug testing is that even a month after someone has smoked a joint, traces remain and these traces, although causing no noticable impariment, are being used to ban people racing motorcycles, ban them from certain work etc.
.

This can be fixed. Urines don't give recent use. But saliva test does - just costs more like $30 and only detects very stoned people who've used in last 3 hours as the threshhold for detection is set too high.

Blood tests also confirm recent impairing use by looking for high levels of delta9 thc. If its up over about 9 (will usually be in the hundreds of ngs) you have used recently and you are impaired.

The reason is that levels peak in the hundreds about 30 mins to an hour after use and then drop off fast after 150 minutes along with the impairment.
Cost of test $200

The mcj eyecheck is used in mining industry and by US police. This tests for drug impairment by anything including alcohol as well as by fatigue for free each time but the cost of a unit is 10g. Could be good for moto sport use.

Trace levels should not be used for decision making around safety. There's no need for that. Too wide a net is cast. Maybe those with traces detected should be required to pay for better tests

[candor]

Are we discussing communication or education?

Intelligence apparently. Which is not necessarily related to educational attainment level. There are some thick as Drs and some very bright nurses and pot smokers cover the full gamut.

[onearmedbandit]

I get called a pig, (amongst other things) directly all the time on this forum, my comment was not aimed at you directly, it was just a generalisation.

I don't take any exception to name calling generally, until it gets really personal; so I'm pleased that you won't let it bother you beyond the post you made about it.

Understand, I just don`t believe in generalisations and will always stand my ground. No problem SC.


Sorry OAB, it wasn't aimed at dope smokers, but people in general. More a case of "You choose your own poison in life". We all do stuff in our lives which isnt good for us. That is the purpose of living. Sorry again if you took this personally - it was just a response for the naysayers on this forum who seem to take offense because people smoke dope. Trying to explain to them that 'they' (as in anyone) can choose what ever 'they' to do with their lives so long as 'they' dont mess with yours.
Dope doesn't fuck you up when you smoke it. It fucks you up when you try and quit. But then again so does everything in the world.

Once again, thanks for clearing that up. No problem avgas.

[The_Dover]

- just costs more like $30 and only detects very stoned people who've used in last 3 hours as the threshhold for detection is set too high.

i'd think the chip packets and chocolate wrappers in the car would be a bigger give away.

or if on a motorcycle -"Where are you going tonight sir?"

"Wendys Officer, I'm fuckin starving. Do you want to come?"

[Mole_C]

Mmmm wendies would be nice. Those chicken nuggets are divine. Im gonna get one of those 3 course deals from the chineese shop instead. Deep fried pork, rice and chow mein.

[The_Dover]

yup, chicken strips always do the trick for me.

and swap out the fries for chili!

[oldrider]

This thread is stoned! :done: John.

[onearmedbandit]

This thread is stoned! :done: John.


If it is, it`s bogarting! Pass to the left hand side damnit.

[scumdog]

Well. read the above past 15-16 posts in one hit.

Some comments:

I could follow a certain logic in the stoners argument IF they could find an easy way of removing alcohol from society before they liberated cannabis.

As said before, I DO think alcohol is harmful to society in so many ways - but why add cannabis to the mix - do you think all the drunks will become stoners?

I see a lot of OAB type users and have no problem with them

I also see a lot of the 'non-working, black jean&jersey skinny-arsed W/T with the big-arsed mrs in a purple velvet curtain dress and two snotty nosed kids on Ritalin in an unheated house with a beat-up Laser in the drive, a wannabe Harley flag above the mantle-piece and all their personal belongings would rattle around a 6'X4' trailer' type of people, they also seem to have a lot of bits of foil lying around and half a socket set shagged by using the little sockets for their cannabis pipes.......

The above people are invariably also the ones we deal with when it comes to petty thefts, burglaries and in possession of stolen goods as well as constantly being on the run from creditors., they also feature when they get their hands on some other type of mind-bending chemical that causes them to lose the plot.

The alcohol using (abusing?) ones generally SEEM more functional, they work etc BUT more prone to anti-social behaviour when at the pubs, out on the street (fighting, trashing letter-boxes and public property, smacking the mrs etc).

Both are unpredictable in behaviour (but the drunks are easier to side-step when they hav a 'go' at you)

If both products and any other recreational drug 'evaporated' from the face of the world I would actually be quite pleased*. ( I know I drink but see enough of the negative side of it to realise if it wasn't there we would have a shit-load less problems in society).

*And leave me more time to issue tickets!

[Krusti]

What's wrong with big-arse mrs?

Signed arse man

:laugh:

[scumdog]

What's wrong with big-arse mrs?

Signed arse man

:laugh:

Nowt!
Just "painting a picture" so to speak (Hell, I wear a black jersey myself and the mrs has a Laser!)

[avgas]

Mmmm wendies would be nice. Those chicken nuggets are divine. Im gonna get one of those 3 course deals from the chineese shop instead. Deep fried pork, rice and chow mein.

Damn you - now im hungry

[SixPackBack]

.....................

[Timber020]

Ive mention this before but the legalise dope van has pulled out infront of me TWICE. More fucking stoners on the road will mean more injured or dead riders.

[scumdog]

And the fat arse?

Yer speaking out of it.

[SixPackBack]

......................

[Joni]

I have asked nicely... but it seems the 2 of you are just set on arguing no matter what.

Keep this thread on topic.
Infractometer is warming up.

[Patrick]

I have asked nicely... but it seems the 2 of you are just set on arguing no matter what.

Keep this thread on topic.
Infractometer is warming up.

Chill Joni, those last few comments were funny...

[Joni]

Patrick please dont tell me to chill... you have no idea how many complaints I have received re this little tussle between the cops and the anti cops on KB.

[The_Dover]

what kind of sad wanker takes time out to complain about dicks like us fighting on the internet?

[Morcs]

*pulls up a chair and takes a big toke* :stoogie:

[Patrick]

Patrick please dont tell me to chill... you have no idea how many complaints I have received re this little tussle between the cops and the anti cops on KB.

:killingme :rofl:

My point though was that the last few comments from both were actually hillarious...that should be encouraged!

[idleidolidyll]

:killingme :rofl:

My point though was that the last few comments from both were actually hillarious...that should be encouraged!

hell i like having the cops here, most of their bullshit is easy to expose.

not one of them seems to have even read the Governments' Health Comittee Report of 2003 investigating the harm of the very drug under discussion and it's even less likely they'd have read the previous two or any of the science. They just get the propaganda from the boss and run with it.

Yep, a great spotlight on bigotted yet ignorant coppers

[Joni]

Patrick, it should not be encourgaed... its the rsult of an arguement that has been going for a while and it takes a serious thread off topic...

You can find your hilarity in other threads.

Now this thread is about Cannabis, and its legislation... back on topic please.

[idleidolidyll]

Patrick, it should not be encourgaed... its the rsult of an arguement that has been going for a while and it takes a serious thread off topic...

You can find your hilarity in other threads.

perhaps content free abuse should be discouraged but a bit of ad hom within a topical post is just life.

if the cops here are gonna spout propaganda, context free anecdotes and urban myths without reference to science and our own governments' 3 investigations into this subject, they deserve all the derision they get

[Joni]

Yup III fair enough... however in an appropriate thread. There is a cop thread... this argument is spilling over into too many threads. Yes I know its topical at the mo, but not every person want to know who hates the cops and why.

Keep it to one thread please.

[spudchucka]

not one of them seems to have even read the Governments' Health Comittee Report of 2003 investigating the harm of the very drug

One would have to be interested in the subject to bother.

[Grahameeboy]

Yup III fair enough... however in an appropriate thread. There is a cop thread... this argument is spilling over into too many threads. Yes I know its topical at the mo, but not every person want to know who hates the cops and why.

Keep it to one thread please.

So they don't read the Threads or Posts about cop bashing.

To be honest, I think the cop bash threads are too often and getting boring but there are worse things in life to worry about and as III says this is life and the choice is still there for all to take notice, ignore or complain.

[candor]

Idle.

Why oh why do pro legalisers keep harping back to those getting kinda crusty reports. They have gained a following and seem to be seen as like the statue of liberty or something. There is a sense of betrayal that the Govt told them everything that was music to their ears one magical moment then ignored them the whole next decade.

I have rabid cannabis supporters e-ml me with reasonable regularity to spout their propaganda and these reports are always their first and last bastion :sick: .

I've not read as....
1) boring I feel certain
2) have seen just soooo muuuuuuch recent research that disproves the earlier findings (which they spout) that pot has no serious mental effects.
3) well aware of arguments for legalising anyway

My god. Members of an org I work for send me articles and studies on a weekly if not daily basis about the effects on mental health. I no longer read them as they're fairly repetitive - is a mountain of studies given strong confirmation by everything I've ever seen possibly WRONG?!.

What really gets me is that the rabid cannabis supporters who e-ml me and there are a few main ones (they do it as I'm a spokesperson for an anti drug group) always harp on these dated reports and always annotate (incorrectly) that thee has been no reseach since to refute the major findings of these reports. Which they say are that firstly cannabis is harmless and secondly it should be legalised forthwith.

That is just so wrong. The whole attitude is Rip van winklish. And the torture (of them denying recent developments) does not stop there. They do this 'your study is wrong / mine is right' number. If I'm suckered in to debate they have this circular logic that I would swear comes from being stoned.

Whereby they start with a conclusion (as opposed to a hypothesis) and then outline why it is right - and they have readymade 'defenses' for all those tenets of their argument that are weak or wrong.

Potsmokers give new meaning to the word inflexible. Their brains are not hardwired with roach clips but seem more like solid steel to me. Also they like big words and incredibly long convoluted sentences and seem to believe their verbosity is evidence the dope has taken them to a higher plain. Another reason I could not keep one in the house. Apart from that sickly smell.

Maybe I shouldn't stereotype but it really is like pot smokers are all one organism with a shared brain. I do get the ones that write me confused sometimes - they seem interchangeable. Just got to figure out which one is the leader :mellow:

[SixPackBack]

................

[candor]

PS. Can't understand why 5% get so excited about this issue and to some it is everything. Even if they are completely right and have a valid point.... well there are about 100 much more serious issues that should be worrying anyone with a reasonable sense of priorities.

I mean its not like it isn't de facto legal anyway. If I wanted to do it I'd have no concens about the law and not many people do. Unless perhaps they're considering running for president of the USA and even then its not a serious infraction (good word Jonie). Helen looks like she did it and if she didn't I'd say she was a pretty phoney hippy. Her hubby seems the type somehow.

The hippocracy tho of heavy smokers who treat ciggy smokers as pond scum

[candor]

You are so wrong my darling. If u met me u would finfd I am quite liberal. For example I truly believe we should have a heroin substitution program for addicts. I support party pills and wil cry for the harm that is caused if they are banned. When I said I work for an anti drug group I shoulda been clearer - anti-drug HARM group.

And tho I think pot is reasonably bad I think I'm on the neutral or maybe side for decriminalising!

[idleidolidyll]

One would have to be interested in the subject to bother.

that's right, so if you were to post on this thread about the subject, or were to be involved in the arrest etc of cannabis users, it would be smart to know the facts instead of just the propaganda.

[idleidolidyll]

Idle.

Why oh why do pro legalisers keep harping back to those getting kinda crusty reports. :mellow:

Umm, because they are in depth investigations that use science instead of propaganda, hearsay and context free anecdote?

hell, that's just smart

[Patrick]

hell i like having the cops here, most of their bullshit is easy to expose.

not one of them seems to have even read the Governments' Health Comittee Report of 2003 investigating the harm of the very drug under discussion and it's even less likely they'd have read the previous two or any of the science. They just get the propaganda from the boss and run with it.

Yep, a great spotlight on bigotted yet ignorant coppers

I've read plenty of reports, one says this, one says that...:zzzz: It is probably just another report that will boreme shitless....like ALL of the others.

End of the day, Misuse Of Drugs Act says it is illegal, it is the law of the land, get on with your job... thanks.

[Patrick]

Patrick, it should not be encourgaed... its the rsult of an arguement that has been going for a while and it takes a serious thread off topic...

You can find your hilarity in other threads.

Now this thread is about Cannabis, and its legislation... back on topic please.

My bad... thought I was in jokes and humour.

[spudchucka]

that's right, so if you were to post on this thread about the subject, or were to be involved in the arrest etc of cannabis users, it would be smart to know the facts instead of just the propaganda.

No, to make an arrest I just have to know the legislation involved.

For the rest of it I'm happy to rely on my own experience and observations.

[scumdog]

No, to make an arrest I just have to know the legislation involved.

For the rest of it I'm happy to rely on my own experience and observations.


Im with that.:yes:

For all those that aren't and don't like the legislation? Bad luck!

Don't whimper on about it, DO something to get it changed to suit your agenda.

Can't do that?

Then learn to live within its confines and STOP BLOODY WHIMPERING ABOUT IT.

Enjoy life with what you have, get over your personal agendas and don't be so bitter.:sunny:

[spudchucka]

Don't whimper on about it, DO something to get it changed to suit your agenda.

Like join NORML? They've had a huge impact over the years.

[Grahameeboy]

Like join NORML? They've had a huge impact over the years.

You expect KBer's to join an association called 'Normal'....

[spudchucka]

These morons......

http://www.norml.org.nz/

[smoky]

I believe candor your words carry very little weight. You have outed yourself as a rabbid anti-drug individual and lack impartiality.:gob:

But... but thats what it's all about - having an opinion!!! if you only want impartial views you'll have a very boring thread.
:scratch:

[peasea]

:gob:

But... but thats what it's all about - having an opinion!!! if you only want impartial views you'll have a very boring thread.
:scratch:


You name it; I've probably tried it. Back in the 70's I started on pot, big fucking deal. I checked out smack, thought it was so bloody good I didn't make a 'habit' of it coz I KNEW it'd fuck me over. Then I got into acid BIG time and decided everyone was mad but me, left that alone after a while and moved to the Hawkes bay where pot was rife but I decided wine was the go...back to Wellington, into the beer and stayed that way until I discovered the joys of speed up in Auckland in the mid 80's. Drink, snort, go crazy and generally have a good time then back-off again until P arrived. I had a bash on that for about a year, cost me heaps of cash and I went nowhere fast, I got aggro, punched some people that may or may not have deserved it but I'm not an aggro guy generally. I gave that away and got into E. Very cool, no aggro but harder on an old man's bod than can be endured on a regular basis, just like over indulgence on Jim Beam.

The legal issues? Pot; if you get caught in public with a spliff, instant 100 bucks for being an idiot, who cares? Acid? Court, fine, scare them with some relevant info, it can't be good for you etc etc. Smack? A fine would be a waste of time, they just blew their cash on smack, educate them, try to save them, the stuff is shite, not good for you. Party pills are so full of BZP it's nuts, that stuff isn't good for you, go guzzle CD cleaner or something. The buzz lasts a couple of hours, the comedown lasts 48. Then we come to P.

Anyone who uses that shit is (like I was) a loser. With my extensive drug-taking history I know what is good for entertainment, what is addictive and what is not. Fortunately I don't have an addictive makeup for the most part, I gave up smoking cigartettes overnight. I knew smack was a no-no, pot is just a laugh but I hate the smoke in my lungs; sure I can bake hash cookies etc but I still get paranoid and don't like trying to sort the CD collection when stoned. P is different.

I have everything sorted when I'm on P, like my diet; I just don't eat. I know where eveything is and if it isn't there it's YOUR fucking fault. I don't have arguments, I just punch your lights out. I don't have a drinking problem coz I can drink shitloads and never crash my bike; I'm invincible. If you do get up after some fisticuffs I'll cut your fucking arm off with a carving knife, and the pizza deliery guy's to boot. I'll be too busy to go to work, I'll forget my mortgage payments coz I've got some points to score/make. Yup, that's P, the shit that's truly fucking NZ. Forget your pot, your E and your acid (although you don't come up against too much acid or smack these days by comparison to the 70's) and get a grip on that P.

I met a woman who simply said "I don't like the way you act on that stuff". It was that simple; I gave it up, not coz she told me to, coz she made me look at myself. I smashed my P-pipe and I can honestly say I've been clean for so long that I can't recall the last burn. However, I'll never forget the first, and that's the problem.

Don't start and you won't have to stop.

I'm not a copper, I'm a biker and I don't particularly like coppers but when it comes to P I have to say that the police have a hard road ahead of them. I have actually smoked pot in the presence of policemen but they know shit from chewed dates. Pot isn't really an issue. P is. Forget the pot thing; it's no big deal if you grow it yourself. It's only an issue if you buy from dubious sources who might lace it with other crap, such as P, to keep you coming back. Grow your own, quietly. Chill out and forget the politics.

As for P? It's the nastiest, most insidious, addictive load of crap that has ever invaded our shores. Don't go there.

This is not from the pulpit; it's from experience.

[scumdog]

"You must spread some opinion around..."

Well written, if it sways even one person away from 'P' that paost will really have avhieved something.

BTW I heard 'P' taking compared to regularly running a red light:

'Yeah I did it and got away with it'

'Yeah, did it again today and scared a little old lady who had the right of way'

'Yeah I did it again, got a bit of a start when I saw how close the camper-van coming from my left was'


'Yeah I did it again and got a scare when I had to swerve around a mini-bus'



'Yeah I did it again and now I'm dead 'cos the truck got me'.

Anybody who's used 'P' want to comment on the simile?

[SixPackBack]

......................

[peasea]

[QUOTE but the question this thread asks is should cannabis be legal? or at least decriminalised. QUOTE]


Oops, off on a tangent again. I think it should be decriminalized up to a certain amount for personal use. Stay on the case of the mass growers and peddlers coz you don't know what you're getting and they're pretty ruthless at times. However, Harold the Hippie sparking up a home grown joint to sit and watch the sun go down is a different matter. Busting his arse and locking him up doesn't do anyone any good, wastes time and resources and will probably give him a negative attitude toward those who bust him. It's the big buggers that need busting.

[Patrick]

[QUOTE=peasea;1013028 I think it should be decriminalized up to a certain amount for personal use. Stay on the case of the mass growers and peddlers coz you don't know what you're getting and they're pretty ruthless at times. However, Harold the Hippie sparking up a home grown joint to sit and watch the sun go down is a different matter. Busting his arse and locking him up doesn't do anyone any good, wastes time and resources and will probably give him a negative attitude toward those who bust him. It's the big buggers that need busting.[/QUOTE]

So, it is business as usual then, and this thread has been a waste of time? We don't care about Harold the Hippie... spark up and enjoy the moment.

[SixPackBack]

........................

[Teflon]

I have everything sorted when I'm on P, like my diet; I just don't eat. I know where eveything is and if it isn't there it's YOUR fucking fault. I don't have arguments, I just punch your lights out. I don't have a drinking problem coz I can drink shitloads and never crash my bike; I'm invincible. If you do get up after some fisticuffs I'll cut your fucking arm off with a carving knife, and the pizza deliery guy's to boot. I'll be too busy to go to work, I'll forget my mortgage payments coz I've got some points to score/make. Yup, that's P, the shit that's truly fucking NZ. Forget your pot, your E and your acid (although you don't come up against too much acid or smack these days by comparison to the 70's) and get a grip on that P.

i've been around this seen for years now, i haven't seen this type of aggro.. had a few burns in my time to.. i just get bored on the shit.

apart from the diet bit, that's exactly how i am on roids..

[Patrick]

Its still illegal, so no the thread has not been a waste of time.


STILL aint worried about Harold the Hippie...

[peasea]

[QUOTE=Teflon;1013415]i've been around this seen for years now, i haven't seen this type of aggro.. QUOTE]


Use it on a daily basis and hang around with others that do, then you'll see it eventually. Hang in there...and don't forget the medical fact that the damage to the bod is cumulative. Of course you could be shelling out for crap gear, that would really piss ME off.

[DMNTD]

...Of course you could be shelling out for crap gear, that would really piss ME off.

First thing I thought of too. :yes:

[avgas]

Stop the drugs and go for a ride.
Its wet and the night is young. Best time for riding fun.

[Teflon]

[quote=Teflon;1013415]i've been around this seen for years now, i haven't seen this type of aggro.. QUOTE]


Use it on a daily basis and hang around with others that do, then you'll see it eventually. Hang in there...and don't forget the medical fact that the damage to the bod is cumulative. Of course you could be shelling out for crap gear, that would really piss ME off.
i do... i'm in the engineering trade, it's common to have a sessions in silos.. getting smashed in a confined space is something to experience.

buy crack?? fuck that.. give me a good E any day

[peasea]

[quote=peasea;1013494]
give me a good E any day

You'll have to get in line for the freebies and when it comes to 'good' E's they seem to be in the minority. Weird how that stuff is illegal though; grog is a far bigger problem but then I suppose they can tax that.

[Teflon]

[quote=Teflon;1013748]

You'll have to get in line for the freebies and when it comes to 'good' E's they seem to be in the minority. Weird how that stuff is illegal though; grog is a far bigger problem but then I suppose they can tax that.

line? what line.. there are some nice yellow hearts going around at the moment, very smacky.. i wonder where they came from..

[ynot slow]

tried dope at ripe age of 27,resisted peer pressure when teenager,had beer that was enough.used off and on from 38-39when out with the boys,stopped when helping father with his horses.it's an offence to be under influence of drugs if you're a trainer,rider,attendent(strapper) covers most people in racing.strange only drugs mostly is reported for detection not alcohol.some track riders and jockeys have been caught at random raids at racecourses w hilst working horses,not at meetings.most get small fine or so.at a new plymouth meeting 3 yrs ago(or so)i was helping dad with couple of horses,after leading horse around and out of birdcage i was asked by a friend "hows the body",'fine' i said.i also said it'd be a laugh if i was drug tested,to which she said i bet.as i led the horse back to stabling area after race and had just hosed him downan officious looking man asked me to accompany him,i said no probs i'll just finish with my job,what's it about,he said drug test,i nearly pissed myself as thinking back this guy was behind me whilst i was talking to my friend.i then explained to him my wanting drug test was because i was undergoing chemo,and was talking jokingly. he didn't believe me so i showed him my chemo card which tells you or others what to do/phone if any problems.he stillwas dubious till i pulled up my shirt and showed him where the needle was still in my vein under a bandage,then he got pissed because i wasted his time,haven't touched it for about 5yrs,had enough bad drugs in form of chemo in my system so don't need any more.as an aside my wife was in funeral practice,as part of job she was able to do training with autopsies when required and said the difference between pot and no pot is evidence in the brain at death.

[scumdog]

Hang in there...and don't forget the medical fact that the damage to the bod is cumulative. Of course you could be shelling out for crap gear, that would really piss ME off.

Yup, 'quality control' is somewhat lacking in that industry...only God really knows what is in that 'P' etc that you're smoking/sniffing/injecting or whatever.....