A Funny Thing Happened Last Weekend, or, Please Don't Ever Shoot Me in the Head

[jrandom]

So I'm oop norf over Easter, as is my wont, sanding and painting the hoose. Amazing what a coat of paint does for old weatherboards, innit?

Brother-in-law and I took half a day off on Sunday to go thin the local goat herd out. Gosh but those feckers breed, don't they? There must be twice the number running around the same hills as there was the same time last year.

A few enthusiastic bangings and boomings later, we have a freezerful of curry ingredients lined up and I'm gutting a headshot goat. When I say 'headshot', I mean a soft-nose 30-30 bullet entered just below its right ear and exited through the bridge of its nose. We're talking 'dropped like a stone' headshot. Dead as a doornail, skull blown to pieces, lights out.

I notice its tail twitching as I'm hacking it up and trying not to spill goat wee anywhere. Haven't seen that happen before with a goat, but hey, tendons and nerves and all that, right? Stuff twitches.

So the guts come on out, everything's intact, and what do you know, it's a pair of fully inflated lungs and a beating heart tucked away up front. I stand there having a 'what the fuck?' moment, call BIL over, he has his own moment. A bit of general mashing around in the chest with my Spyderco and significant arterial spurting and deflating-balloon noises later, we have a genuinely dead animal on our hands.

I think I'm going to stick with thoracic cavity shots from now on. This must be an example of why headshots are Officially Discouraged by Them Wot Know.

I have a whole new respect for the kind of weird-arse trauma situations ambos and A&E clinical staff must have to deal with. Has anyone had any experience of similar events involving an almost completely destroyed brain leaving an animal or person with fully functioning vital organs?

[MidnightMike]

So much for dead as a doornail huh? :rofl:

Kinda weird really :D

[Finn]

Wasn't very funny for the goat. I don't have much compassion for humans, but I just can't stand animals suffering.

Same thing happened to me with a Boar except I did the peeing.

[Sniper]

Yup, there is actually a name for it. Fuck knows if I can recvall it, but I'll find out and let you know

It tends to happen when a certain part of the brain is left untouched by any force that had damaged or destroyed another part of the brain. This part runs the basic functions of the body while still leaving you dead as a door nail. Very interesting phenominan, I'll have to remember to go and look up what it was called for you.

Happened with a couple of mu bunnies this weekend that were shot in the eye.

[Hitcher]

Has anyone had any experience of similar events involving an almost completely destroyed brain leaving an animal or person with fully functioning vital organs?

You're telling the story of my life. Spooky.

[Finn]

Yup, there is actually a name for it. Fuck knows if I can recvall it, but I'll find out and let you know

It tends to happen when a certain part of the brain is left untouched by any force that had damaged or destroyed another part of the brain. This part runs the basic functions of the body while still leaving you dead as a door nail. Very interesting phenominan, I'll have to remember to go and look up what it was called for you.

Happened with a couple of mu bunnies this weekend that were shot in the eye.

Is it called MarkAuckland?

[jrandom]

Wasn't very funny for the goat. I don't have much compassion for humans, but I just can't stand animals suffering.

'Funny' as in 'fucking weird', not as in 'Billy T'.

I don't think anything recognisable as 'suffering' could have entered into the equation. In fact, I can't believe the goat had any significant cognitive functions remaining. Most of its brain had been physically removed, but somehow it'd retained enough of its CNS intact to carry on circulation and respiration.

[Sniper]

Is it called MarkAuckland?

Dont be so nice to Mark. Im sure this would be an improvement on his everyday way of thinking.

[jrandom]

Yup, there is actually a name for it... part runs the basic functions of the body while still leaving you dead as a door nail.

Yeah. That 'un.

Creeped me out well and proper. In my world, dead things are supposed to stop moving on the inside.

[MrMelon]

If the brainstem and lower parts of the brain are intact it'll keep on living! Sounds like a shot like that might've taken the top/front out but left the important bits in. They're the bits that control the autonomic fuctions like breathing, heartbeat etc.

[Sniper]

If the brainstem and lower parts of the brain are intact it'll keep on living! Sounds like a shot like that might've taken the top/front out but left the important bits in. They're the bits that control the autonomic fuctions like breathing, heartbeat etc.

Thats it, but theres still a name for it..... Dammit I should know this

[Crisis management]

Thats it, but theres still a name for it..... Dammit I should know this

Alive?

Barstewards, 10 characters..

[Sniper]

Alive?

Barstewards, 10 characters..

Smartarse, although I will bling you

[MrMelon]

Thats it, but theres still a name for it..... Dammit I should know this

Could be the Medulla Oblongata you're thinking of.. it's part of the brainstem.

[Mr Merde]

Always tried to go for neck shots, seems to drop them very quickly.

Last time out goat hunting, 5 shots, 5 kills.

All neck shots. All dropped like a stone.

By the time I got to each animal there were no signs of life.

High velocity .223, 52gn HP's. Not super accurate 1" groups at 100 yards.

Hunting partner used same rounds and a heart/lung shot and the billy ran 15 meters before dropping.


Mr :shit:

[Sniper]

Could be the Medulla Oblongata you're thinking of.. it's part of the brainstem.

Yep, thats the part of the brain. But there is actually a scientific name for it.

[Hitcher]

I am Jack's medulla oblongata, without me Jack could not regulate his heart rate, blood pressure or breathing.

[Dooly]

Some years back a mate of mine who has a large collection of military guns set up his Vickers machine gun on a farm of a friend of his and culled a hillside of goats.
Highly illegal to fire those guns, but by fuck it was a wicked sight.
Knocked dozens over in seconds and was quite a messy scene as the bullets went everywhere into them.
He went thru hundreds of 303 rounds in no time.

[SlowHand]

Is this the sequel to Black Sheep?

[Mr Merde]

Some years back a mate of mine who has a large collection of military guns set up his Vickers machine gun on a farm of a friend of his and culled a hillside of goats.
Highly illegal to fire those guns, but by fuck it was a wicked sight.
Knocked dozens over in seconds and was quite a messy scene as the bullets went everywhere into them.
He went thru hundreds of 303 rounds in no time.

Similar thing in basic training. Officer decided we should have a yippee shoot. Gathered all the old Bren guns, M16's, AK47's and a couple of Uzi's. Picked up cases of ammo and off to the range.

During the shoot a flock of sheep wandered onto the range. We had a sudden order as to the elevation we were to shoot at. Result , one flock less in the Waiouru area.

Officer knew we could shoot and wanted those who only ever shot at paper targets to see what happened to a living breathing target.

As you said a real mess.

.303, 7.62 Nato, 7.62 x 39, 5.56mm and 9mm.

[Hitcher]

Ahhh. The old "flock of sheep wandering onto the Waiouru rifle range" story. At last hearing over 24 million sheep had died in this manner over the ATG's tenure of this facility.

[Sniper]

Similar thing in basic training. Officer decided we should have a yippee shoot. Gathered all the old Bren guns, M16's, AK47's and a couple of Uzi's. Picked up cases of ammo and off to the range.


Hell, that must have been some time ago. They wouldn't let us play with those when I was in.

Mind you, I remember wild horses and gimpies don't go together well either :whistle:

[Mr Merde]

Hell, that must have been some time ago. They wouldn't let us play with those when I was in.

Mind you, I remember wild horses and gimpies don't go together well either :whistle:

1975/76 a very long time ago. OCTU intake. Bunch of 18 and 19 year old kiddies being trained by a lot of Vietnam vets. They didnt make it easy on us. Didnt help that the year before I joined up my old man had retired as WO1 161 bty, 16 Fld Reg. I made the mistake of joining his ex regiment.

One person I remeber vividly was a young lad by the name of Andrew Martin. Doing his basic and already badged. Youngest ever recruit into 1 Ranger Sqn.

They used to let us take our SLR's out into the army blocks and hunt deer when we were confined to base.

[Sniper]

1975/76 a very long time ago. OCTU intake. Bunch of 18 and 19 year old kiddies being trained by a lot of Vietnam vets. They didnt make it easy on us. Didnt help that the year before I joined up my old man had retired as WO1 161 bty, 16 Fld Reg. I made the mistake of joining his ex regiment.

One person I remeber vividly was a young lad by the name of Andrew Martin. Doing his basic and already badged. Youngest ever recruit into 1 Ranger Sqn.

They used to let us take our SLR's out into the army blocks and hunt deer when we were confined to base.

Yup, I'll let you know why I had one hell of a time when I was in too, check your PMs.

The name Andrew Martin rings a bell. I think there is actually a mention on camp of him. On hell of a soldier I believe.

[Mr Merde]

...
The name Andrew Martin rings a bell. I think there is actually a mention on camp of him. On hell of a soldier I believe.


He finished up Colonel of NZSAS before he took retirement. Lives in Scotland now. Poor bastard had a real hard time as our drill instructor Sgt Bill James had only just reverted to the artillery. Vet of two tours in Vietnam with 1 Ranger Sqn.

[Sniper]

He finished up Colonel of NZSAS before he took retirement. Lives in Scotland now. Poor bastard had a real hard time as our drill instructor Sgt Bill James had only just reverted to the artillery. Vet of two tours in Vietnam with 1 Ranger Sqn.

Bang, thats why I know him....

[Sniper]

Very common thing with people too. Always major head trauma.
Anyway, as mentioned it is called the Medulla Oblongata, or Brain Stem.. where the CNS (Central Nervous System) resides.

Speedie, isnt there a term used for that sort of injury though. I know the part of the brain is called the Medulla Oblongata, but the injury where that occurs has a specific title doesnt it?

[Hitcher]

He finished up Colonel of NZSAS before he took retirement. Lives in Scotland now. Poor bastard had a real hard time as our drill instructor Sgt Bill James had only just reverted to the artillery. Vet of two tours in Vietnam with 1 Ranger Sqn.

He was the All Blacks' manager too for a while after he retired from the Army.

[Mr Merde]

He was the All Blacks' manager too for a while after he retired from the Army.

Heard that when I was in the UK.

[Sniper]

The term you are after may be "Coning". A result of intracranial pressure .. it is a complicated matter not worth going into right here, but it is normally always fatal.

Could be, very similar to what Im thinking, cheers mate

[Ascott]

I don't know why you would be surprised by this there are a bunch of cunts in wellington with this condition, and they are running the country!

[jrandom]

Not super accurate 1" groups at 100 yards.

Stop it already with the false modesty, old chap. I've never met anybody who can shoot better than that without a benchrest, regardless of the rifle's intrinsic capabilities. For that matter, I've never met a commercial centerfire rifle in decent condition that couldn't group 1" at 100 yards from a rest, either.

If you can reliably manage to put shots within < 2" at 100 yards off the shoulder when dropping live game, you're as good as you'll ever need to be.

Most people who witter on about sub-MOA groupings have never made a 600-yard shot in their life.

(Which is why I try not to witter on about sub-MOA groupings...)

[Ixion]

The really interesting point though is that with the med.obl. frunctioning, and the rest of the brain dead or missing, you can still get an erection.

(actually, you can get an erection after you're totally dead. Priorities, see )

[mstriumph]

Some years back a mate of mine who has a large collection of military guns set up his Vickers machine gun on a farm of a friend of his and culled a hillside of goats.
Highly illegal to fire those guns, but by fuck it was a wicked sight.
Knocked dozens over in seconds and was quite a messy scene as the bullets went everywhere into them.
He went thru hundreds of 303 rounds in no time.

wat's the point in killing it if you can't eat it? :mellow:

[Mr Merde]

Stop it already with the false modesty, old chap. I've never met anybody who can shoot better than that without a benchrest, regardless of the rifle's intrinsic capabilities. For that matter, I've never met a commercial centerfire rifle in decent condition that couldn't group 1" at 100 yards from a rest, either.

If you can reliably manage to put shots within < 2" at 100 yards off the shoulder when dropping live game, you're as good as you'll ever need to be.

Most people who witter on about sub-MOA groupings have never made a 600-yard shot in their life.

(Which is why I try not to witter on about sub-MOA groupings...)

I like the "old chap" bit. I sighted the rifle in off a bench and sandbagged. I needed to know where it was shooting as I had just made up 150 rounds with new components. AR2207 powder, Winchester primers and Speer 52gn HP projectiles. I had weighed each case and they were within .5 gn of each other after sizing, triming and chamfering the necks. The projectiles were all seated with a micrometer die.

I cant shoot MOA yet !!

Sometime this year I will begin my training at long range accuracy. This will be with a 1874 Remington Rolling Block action re barreled with a Badger 34" full octagonal. Long range peep sights and using black powder.

I have a competition or two in my ambitions for which I will have to learn to shoot MOA with these old rifles. They are capable of doing this off shooting sticks. The competitions are at distances of up to 1200 yards and to get any where you have to be able to put your rounds in a 10" group at this distance.

The trajectory of these rounds is very similar to a rainbow. The 520 gn projectile will have a maximum velocity of about 1500 fps and about 900 fps when it reaches the target. A loss of about 600fps

Compare this with say a .308 which leaves the barrel at 2800 fps abd by 1000 yards will have dropped to 500-600 fps.

The balistics of modern ammunition makes it a lot harder to shoot over great distances.

Yes for hunting a hand held 2" group would be wonderful but I am happy with being able to place a round in an area on the animal that I would be assured of a clean kill.

I think we are both reading off the same page.


Mr :shit:

[jrandom]

I cant shoot MOA yet !! ... Sometime this year I will begin my training at long range accuracy.

A few months ago, I shot a 4-round 1" group at 100 meters off the shoulder with a friend's .270. Of course, immediately thereafter I got nervous and my trigger control and breathing went all hinky. I haven't bothered trying to repeat the performance.

My next shooting goal is to be able to reliably put 9mm into the black every time at 25 meters, slow fire, left hand only, right hand only and isosceles stances. I won't have a prayer of getting there until I get my 'B' endorsement and can start dry-firing regularly, though. Just keeping the sights on paper with my left hand is difficult enough right now.

Any ideas about exercises I could do to improve grip stability?


Badger 34" full octagonal...

Well, if you run out of ammo, you could certainly bludgeon someone to death with that barrel.

[Hitcher]

Any ideas about exercises I could do to improve grip stability?

Use that well-proven stabilising technique once used by top darts players, until the practice was banned by the professional sport's governing body. Lager. Pints of it.

The counterbalancing effect of the ensuing paunch possibly assists as well.

[scumdog]

wat's the point in killing it if you can't eat it? :mellow:

Probably because Mr Farmer did not want them eating grass his sheep could have eaten and just wanted rid of them, they were just pests.

Sort of the same attitude you have to a swarm of flies.

[Mr Merde]

A few months ago, I shot a 4-round 1" group at 100 meters off the shoulder with a friend's .270. Of course, immediately thereafter I got nervous and my trigger control and breathing went all hinky. I haven't bothered trying to repeat the performance.

My next shooting goal is to be able to reliably put 9mm into the black every time at 25 meters, slow fire, left hand only, right hand only and isosceles stances. I won't have a prayer of getting there until I get my 'B' endorsement and can start dry-firing regularly, though. Just keeping the sights on paper with my left hand is difficult enough right now.

Any ideas about exercises I could do to improve grip stability?



Well, if you run out of ammo, you could certainly bludgeon someone to death with that barrel.

Fish my old mate, I never realised that you were into the sport of pistol shooting.

9mm into the black. I am guessing you mean a standard target where the black is the 8,9,10 and centre circle. Should be no problem with training.

Few years back now I shot at my range with .357 revolver and I was pissed off if at 25meters there were any in the 8 ring. Not the best in my club. The good ones put them all on the 10 or X.

You dont need grip strenghtening exercises. Its all about control not strength.the pistol is held by just two fingers. Index finger is for the trigger, no strenght needed there. The pinkie finger is for control of recoil. The two fingers between them are used to hold the grip and if they are straining them you are using too much pressure and will get tired (and miss).

The secret to pistol shooting is muscle memory. If you havent got your B cat yet then get a toy similar to the pistol you wish to learn to shoot. Weight it to something similar of the the real thing.

Practice raising the pistol into a firing position till it becomes second nature and your subconcious takes over. Keep working on your sight picture. Everyone wobbles, skill is learning to take that wobble and turning it into a circular motion rather than a haphazard one, once you have that circular motion then try and make it smaller and smaller. Release the trigger at the same time every time while maintaining your sight picture.

SNIPER im sorry Ive gone way off topic.

Fish or anyone else for that matter, if you want the benifit of an old hackers 25 years experience of pistol shoting then start a new thread and I will try and put what I know into a more coherrant format.


Mr :shit:

[Mr Merde]

Probably because Mr Farmer did not want them eating grass his sheep could have eaten and just wanted rid of them, they were just pests.

Sort of the same attitude you have to a swarm of flies.

Oh so very true.

Weeding the garden. A weed is a plant in the wrong place. An animal can be the same if in the wrong place. Ask DOC

[mstriumph]

Oh so very true.

Weeding the garden. A weed is a plant in the wrong place. An animal can be the same if in the wrong place. Ask DOC

Did you read the post i originally quoted on?
Pest control is one thing .......... understandable, necessary and acceptable.

Massacre with automatic weapons, inflicting maximum terror and agony for FUN is [I]not

at least, not to me

i know there is a section of society that kills for the amusement of inflicting pain and gets off on the powertrip of the terror and distress of the victim .......

wankers that need an artificial dick to enable them to get off

but it sickens and distresses me - i wouldn't have been able to witness it without getting myself into serious strife trying to ram the aforementioned substitute penis up the perpetrator's fundemental oriface.

- and your officer in basic training, Mr Merde? there are some orders which should never be either given or obeyed ...... in combat, troops have a mechanism for dealing with officers like that. ... another form of 'pest control' mebbe :innocent:

Firearms are a necessary part of country life - when shooting for the table co-incides with culling of unwanted animals 'in the wrong place', that's a win/win situation in my book ........ - that ISN't what this post is about.

my 2c