My brother binned it on my baby -Rant and a few questions.

[Spuds1234]

Ok so Im pretty fucked off right now. Dont worry though, I have a beer next to me while I type this so by the end of this post the beer will be gone and I will be feeling better.

I lent my GS250 to my brother on Saturday as his GN got stolen about a month? ago and I had just bought a new bike.

Things were all dandy until today.

He crashed my first motorbike. My first ever proper motorbike that I could legally ride on the road. My first baby that although I had crashed before, its just not the same when someone else crashes it.

From what he's told me, he was going around a round about and a car pulled out in front of him and he must have panicked and stomped on the rear brake. Im pretty certain that he high sided from the description of the crash and the damage.

He is currently saying he was doing about 20km/h when it happened, but when I originally spoke to him he said he was doing 40.

I was wondering if you can actually high side doing such a low speed as 20km/h, or even 30km/h?

He is also saying that he "Had to drop the bike" otherwise he would have hit the car. Am I right to call bullshit on this? The bike never hit the car. It never slid past the car on the road. It stopped by itself before it hit the car. Ergo surely if the bike was upright (even going around a round about) and was on the rubber. It could have stopped even quicker. Im guessing that he just stomped on the rear brake and didn't even try and straighten up. Would I be correct?

On to the bike though.

All the damage is has been done to the muffler (its come away from the header pipes and is scratched up more so than before Im told -previous scratches were from me scraping it around corners, not crash damage) and will need a new clamp where it meets the header pipes.

The left rear indicator has been smashed up. Just the part with the bulb in it. Not the stork that the indicator sits on.

Also the speedo is stuck saying 20km/h.

He took it into Trevor Piece Motorcycles this afternoon to get a quote and they put it at $530 to fix the bike. The big spenders being labor and fixing the speedo (they dont actually know what is causing the speedo not to work. Just that it doesnt work).

Now this is where I have some other questions and things get tricky.

The lady that was driving the car that pulled out in front of my brother has a husband (go figure). He is something of a motorbike person. Apparently he owns a few bikes or something.

Anyway my brother spoke to him regarding the quote to fix the bike and he said "NO". My brother then agreed with him that it was to much. He then gave the guy the offer for us to fix the bike at a cost of $400 cash to the guy, and we would call it quits here. If it cost more than $400 for us to fix it then so be it. This would mean that I would get the parts that were needed. I would do all the labor on the bike to get it fixed etc and would take the risk that the speedo wouldnt need to much work done. He declined that too. He wants to see the bike. Fair enough I can understand that.

My problem is that the guy wants my brother to take the bike out to his place so he can have a look at it. Its about a 35km trip to where he lives. Obviously, while the bike is rideable, its not exactly wise to take a bike that doesnt have any working left indicators, nor an attached muffler on a 30km trip along the highway. Also the bike has no warrant. Its just run out. It was in warrantable condition before the crash. The warrant expired a few days ago. An neither of us drive cars. My brother says he will do it. And I will need to go with him, as I want to speak to the guy. Thats cool. Im not putting my body on the line, riding a crashed motorbike.

He also wants a go at fixing the bike himself. Being a bike person, and an engineer or something he obviously thinks he can do it for less than the bike shop. He probably can. And apparently he has seen the bike at my brothers work and knows that its not exactly worth doing $500 worth of work on it. Im pretty sure I could sell the bike for $500 though. Hell its registered, would be warranted, and the engine is sweet. Its just missing side covers lol.

Im not to happy about this. I only trust two people to work on my bikes and some stranger isnt one of them. Granted the work that needs doing isnt exactly life threatening (whats the worst that can happen of the muffler starts to fall off again). But whats to stop him doing a "that will last a month, long enough to get him off my back" kinda job? I would rather have it fixed by a mechanic that I can go and bitch to if the indicator falls off. Also the speedo is rather important. I dont want it to look like it works. So I have asked that if the guy does the work on the bike (and against my preference it seems he will be -I really have to thank my brother for that one) and he fixes the speedo, that he will get it tested and I will get a certificate to prove the accuracy off the speedo.

I have also asked my brother not to tell the guy anymore until I have seen the bike. I will be having a look at it tomorrow afternoon. So far all that is broken (that they can tell) is the muffler, speedo, and left rear indicator. Im pretty sure that I will notice anything else (I did ride the bike for 3.5 years, and I know it better than the back of my hand).

If you guys are still reading at this point, I thank you. I just have one last question.

Is there anything else I should do? The bike didnt have insurance. My brother only has third party and the lady that owned the car that caused the crash doesnt want to touch her insurance for some reason (probably a good thing for me though being that it had no warrant at the time of the crash).

Also before anyone asks. Yes my brother is alright although if he crashes the bike again on the way to the guys place the last the he should worry about is someone running over him. He will have me to deal with :angry2: :bash:

[Sniper]

Bugger man, my bit of advice, dont let that guy near your bike. Tell him they are responsible for the damage and you will get your brother to lay a complaint with the police unless they come to the party

[crashe]

Im certainly no expert in these things...

But if the speedo is reading 20kms then it somehow jammed on the speed that he was going at when he crashed.
(thats what they talk about on the "Crash Investigation Unit" programme on telly).

I am also guessing that you will/may have to buy a whole speedo unit to replace the smashed one.

Yep I do believe that you can highside doing only 20kms.


Good luck sorting this all out.

Have a chat to a few of the police on this site...... they maybe able to help you out on the legal side of things.

[sunhuntin]

damn! bitch of a thing to happen!!

i wouldnt take the bike anywhere near a road, except for the back of a trailer or ute. while it was in warrentable condition before the wreck, its not now. the cops would likely ping you for no indicator, no speedo and no warrent. there may also be damage you cant see [frame twisted, bars bent, brakes stuffed, engine stuffed.]

[Nasty]

Kinda have to agree with Sniper ... by the sounds they are wanting to do things on the cheap ... but that often means nasty .. and hunny nasty is my name .. not what you should do to a bike ....

Even if your brother has third party . .what insurance do you have on the bike itself?

Get a written quote and present it to the people who caused the accident ... give them an option of getting another quote, but it is to be within a reasonable distance or the bike is to be transported ... as if it is not warrentable you should not ride it .. the warrent is not about the six month check but about roadworthiness ...

My 2c:done:

[marty]

your brother sounds like a fucking idiot. sounds a spillage of Gene-o-Kleen caused the crash.....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1000248&postcount=51

[jrandom]

That really sucks. Best advice? Do everything by the book. No dodgy jobs on the cheap.

Unfortunately, there's nothing harder or more painful than getting someone else's insurer to pay out on a third-party claim. Basically, that system is designed around your insurer chasing their insurer. When that's happening, balls get rolling.

In your situation, though, if the other folk refuse to cooperate when it comes to your third-party claim on their policy, you're basically fucked and will have to take it to small claims court.

Personally, I'd issue an ultimatum to the guys that pulled out in front of the bike. Tell them to either pay the full cost of a quote from a mechanic you trust or authorise a claim on their insurance policy immediately, or you're filing against them in court.

[Spuds1234]

Bugger man, my bit of advice, dont let that guy near your bike. Tell him they are responsible for the damage and you will get your brother to lay a complaint with the police unless they come to the party

What could the police do? It would just end up being her word against my brothers?


Im certainly no expert in these things...

But if the speedo is reading 20kms then it somehow jammed on the speed that he was going at when he crashed.
(thats what they talk about on the "Crash Investigation Unit" programme on telly).

I am also guessing that you will/may have to buy a whole speedo unit to replace the smashed one.

Yep I do believe that you can highside doing only 20kms.


Good luck sorting this all out.

Have a chat to a few of the police on this site...... they maybe able to help you out on the legal side of things.

Who are the police on this site. Are they of the friendly type ;) They ride bikes the must be what am I saying.


damn! bitch of a thing to happen!!

i wouldnt take the bike anywhere near a road, except for the back of a trailer or ute. while it was in warrentable condition before the wreck, its not now. the cops would likely ping you for no indicator, no speedo and no warrent. there may also be damage you cant see [frame twisted, bars bent, brakes stuffed, engine stuffed.]

As far as I know, the shop says the frame isnt bent. Also the handle bars were already a little benty. Just the bars though. Not the forks. The forks were perfect.

I will have a chat with my brother about this. Im obviously not happy to have to help ride/cart the bike any distance far out of my way (as this would be).



Kinda have to agree with Sniper ... by the sounds they are wanting to do things on the cheap ... but that often means nasty .. and hunny nasty is my name .. not what you should do to a bike ....

Even if your brother has third party . .what insurance do you have on the bike itself?

Get a written quote and present it to the people who caused the accident ... give them an option of getting another quote, but it is to be within a reasonable distance or the bike is to be transported ... as if it is not warrentable you should not ride it .. the warrent is not about the six month check but about roadworthiness ...

My 2c:done:

My brother did get a written quote. And he told them the price over the phone.

I will ask him to offer the people the chance to get another quote done.

Also is the thing about a warrent about road worthiness, not about a 6 monthly check, does that fly?

[Spuds1234]

That really sucks. Best advice? Do everything by the book. No dodgy jobs on the cheap.

Unfortunately, there's nothing harder or more painful than getting someone else's insurer to pay out on a third-party claim. Basically, that system is designed around your insurer chasing their insurer. When that's happening, balls get rolling.

In your situation, though, if the other folk refuse to cooperate when it comes to your third-party claim on their policy, you're basically fucked and will have to take it to small claims court.

Personally, I'd issue an ultimatum to the guys that pulled out in front of the bike. Tell them to either pay the full cost of a quote from a mechanic you trust or authorise a claim on their insurance policy immediately, or you're filing against them in court.

Thats the thing though. I think my brothers insurance would only cover him for his bike. Not some random bike that he happened to be riding. I will ask him to check his policy though, and see what he comes up with.

Also wouldn't an insurance company just say "Nope. Bike wasnt warranted therefor it shouldn't have been on the road. You are at fault" and not pay a dime?

[FROSTY]

Dude--First off--if the bike stopped after sliding on its side without hitting the car then it DEFINITELY would have stopped on its tyres.
The days when the excuse "I had to lay it down to avoid a crash" went out about 20 years ago.
As for your brother and the person who pulled outs problem---dude thats exxactly what it is--THEIR problem
Don't get suckered into let it become your problem
You loaned your bike and expect your bike to be repaired by a professional to the same condition it was in pre loan
Cost is irrelevant to you
If the guy refuses to pay up then its your brothers problem not yours

[marty]

actually, i'd just make your brother pay for all the repairs, then he can chase the car driver. take his transport until he does.

[crashe]

Who are the police on this site. Are they of the friendly type ;) They ride bikes the must be what am I saying.

Scumdog, bykeycop, Nodman and Dynamytus50 to name a few.
They will be honest with you.

Might be worth contacting them via pm (private message) and send them the link to this thread to read.

[Spuds1234]

Dude--First off--if the bike stopped after sliding on its side without hitting the car then it DEFINITELY would have stopped on its tyres.
The days when the excuse "I had to lay it down to avoid a crash" went out about 20 years ago.
As for your brother and the person who pulled outs problem---dude thats exxactly what it is--THEIR problem
Don't get suckered into let it become your problem
You loaned your bike and expect your bike to be repaired by a professional to the same condition it was in pre loan
Cost is irrelevant to you
If the guy refuses to pay up then its your brothers problem not yours

Thats what I thought. The only time I would lay a bike down to avoid something is if I had to jump off to avoid a drop off a cliff or something.

Im trying not to let it become my problem, but its rather hard when its your bike that you have lovingly cared for for 3 years.

Also my mother is on my back saying that I was acting like a dick towards my brother.

I think I will tell my brother that he crashed it. Its up to him to get it professionaly repaired to the same condition it was in before I lent it to him.


actually, i'd just make your brother pay for all the repairs, then he can chase the car driver. take his transport until he does.

That might be a bit to mean, seeing as the driver is trying to come to the party.

[Spuds1234]

Scumdog, bykeycop, Nodman and Dynamytus50 to name a few.
They will be honest with you.

Might be worth contacting them via pm (private message) and send them the link to this thread to read.


Thanks for that Crashe. I appreciate that.

[Disco Dan]

thats exxactly what it is--THEIR problem
Don't get suckered into let it become your problem

You loaned your bike and expect your bike to be repaired by a professional to the same condition it was in pre loan
Cost is irrelevant to you

If the guy refuses to pay up then its your brothers problem not yours

Exactly... you loaned your bike out. You should get it back in the same condition.

The person that pulled out is trying to cut costs by settling - dont back down. Book it into the shop, tell them to "fix it" and send them the bill. If they throw a tanty... ring up the plods.

[Spuds1234]

your brother sounds like a fucking idiot. sounds a spillage of Gene-o-Kleen caused the crash.....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1000248&postcount=51

I just noticed this post and I must say

Dude I dont want to rain on your parade but that hits a bit close to home.

He maybe an idiot and I doubt I will ever convince him that he didnt have to lay the bike down.

But saying that a spillage of Gene-o-Kleen caused the accident hits a bit close to home as I am his TWIN brother.

Apart from that. I fully agree with you.

[Spuds1234]

Here is a copy of the letter that I will be dropping off in my brothers mail box.

Any opinions on it? I dont want to be rubbing salt into any wounds. But I dont exactly want to tip toe around things either (its why Im still single. I always tell things as I see them -gets me in heaps of trouble).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

10/4/07

I have had a think about what happened today and calmed down a lot and have come up with solution that I think is fair.

Basically things boil down to this (and there isn’t really a nice way to put this):

You crashed the bike. It is your responsibility to fix it.

This holds true even if the other party refuses to pay for repairs at a mechanics.

The things that I want to happen and can reasonably expect to happen are as follows.

The bike is under no circumstances to be driven anywhere unless it is in a warrantable condition. It may be towed on a trailer or ute though.

This means that if the other party wants to have a look at the bike then they can come and have a look at it in town. If they refuse that is their problem. You have gotten a written quote (I assume you got it written down) and if they don’t like it then they can feel free to get another quote done at a bike shop of their choice.

The bike shall be fixed up to the standard that I lent the bike to you in and it will be fixed professionally by a mechanic that can provide a written guarantee of the work down. And will back it up with receipts and proof of work done.

This means that the bike will not be fixed on the cheap by someone in their garage. Unless that person also happens to be a mechanic with a work shop that will fix the bike at mates rates for the other party and back up the work done as per point two. If the bike is to be fixed on the cheap, it will be done by me. No one else.

I will not be expected to help transport the bike anywhere, nor have any part in fixing it. It is up to you and the other party as to who fixes the bike. So long as there are receipts.

It is your responsibility to fix the bike.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me and I will answer as soon as I can.

Cheers

Alex

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What do you think? Any suggestions?

[Titanium]

Your bike .....

Your money ......

Your chick .... unless it is to another chick and you get to play / watch / take photos

Just my 10 cents worth ....

[Nasty]

Also is the thing about a warrent about road worthiness, not about a 6 monthly check, does that fly?

It definately flys .. a vehicle can become unwarrentable at any stage .. not just when it gets checked.

Nasty

[scracha]

Dude--First off--if the bike stopped after sliding on its side without hitting the car then it DEFINITELY would have stopped on its tyres.
The days when the excuse "I had to lay it down to avoid a crash" went out about 20 years ago.

I had to lay mine down to avoid the @#44ckin thing landing on top of me :-)

Oh..crash thingie. Don't be nice. Get the cops involved immediately otherwise the @#$cktard will dick you around for ages. It's HIS problem. Get any two estimates you like. It's your choice of garage. If his insurance company say otherwise then get them to pay for the quote and the transport to the garage. "I couldn't possibly ride it without a working speedo m'lud".

I was "nice" about my crash and it now looks like I'll have to take the arsehole to small claims court.

First thing to do after a crash :- Find a witness THEN speak to the other arsehole

[NZsarge]

I feel ya pain dude, coz i been there! Back in the day...way way back in the day... I lent my nice, newly purchased RZ350 to my brother to have a thrash on, he goes into town, picks up the girlfriend goes for a ride and bins it not even 24 hours after I picked it up from the dealer....GUTTED!

[Sniper]

RE the letter dude.

IMHO, its a bit impersonal, sit down and chat to your brother, he proberbly feels like shit as is, a letter isnt a good way to handel it

S

[scumdog]

RE the letter dude.

IMHO, its a bit impersonal, sit down and chat to your brother, he proberbly feels like shit as is, a letter isnt a good way to handel is

S

Afraid I have to agree.

All-in-all how much of the damage repair is going to require a qualified mechanic as opposed to a keen guy or two, some parts and some basic tools??

How about giving it a go that way? - you might get your bike back on the road quicker than having it parked in a workshop gathering dust while they 'wait for parts'.

Bro might be quite happy to pay for the parts but the labour costs might make him squirm. (unless he's really rich which I doubt)

Just a quick 2-cents worth, I know in the same circumstances it would suit ME.

[marty]

RE the letter dude.

IMHO, its a bit impersonal, sit down and chat to your brother, he proberbly feels like shit as is, a letter isnt a good way to handel it

S

my thought exactly - 1st off comments are a bit close to home as he's a TWIN, then he writes him a letter? obviously very close.

[Sniper]

my thought exactly - 1st off comments are a bit close to home as he's a TWIN, then he writes him a letter? obviously very close.

Nah, Ive met Spud, he is a damn decent sort of guy. I think he is just in this situation for the first time and needs help dealing with it

[Macktheknife]

Spud, you really need to TALK to your brother, face to face and in private. Tell him how you feel and what you think needs to be done to correct the situation, give your brother a chance to get the job done right and well.
As for the other guy wanting to do it in his garage, check him out, he might be as good as he thinks he is. If not, use the advice above, get it done at a shop and use the police and courts to recover the costs.
Above all, remember that once this little experience is over you still want to be able to get on with your brother. It may pay to bear that in mind before you get carried away.
BTW, there is another option, go see some KBer mates and see if they can help you out in the repairs, might save you the money and aggravation of the other ways.
Tell the driver you want this list of parts supplied and you will take care of the rest, get some of the guys around and you will be done in a weekend, just supply beer and pizza.

[Gareth123]

I'm the brother who crashed it.

Now before you all start paying me out for having an accident on my brothers baby please remember that i've only been riding for 6 months, my brother hasn't mentioned this. It was my in-experience as a rider and being on an unfamiliar bike that made me drop it and high side it. Yip i probably did jump on the back brake really hard, thats because on my last bike, which got nicked, i had too. Whats the first thing you do in a panic situation? Go back to what you've done over and over and over, which in this case was jump on the back brake. Please note i was also squeezing the front brake hard as well. This all happened btw while i was on my way to buy my new bike. Ironic isn't it?

Now i had to do a bit of research on this because my brother was being a dick and demanding brand new parts and certified mechanics and recipts and guarantees etc.

First off, and this was a bit of a surprise to me, even though the bike isn't warrented, since it wasn't the fault of the bike that caused the damage but the fault of the rider reacting incorrectly in a situation that he had never experienced before and was not bought about by any fault of the rider, the driver of the car has to pay for the damage to the bike.
Secondly, the 3rd party in the car are under absolutely no obligation to take the bike to a mechanic, produce receipts and gaurantees for the work done on the bike. All they have to do is return the bike in the same condition it was in before the accident. That means no new parts if they can source second hand ones in the same condition as the originals. If my brother has a problem with this he needs to go straight to the 3rd party and discuss it with them. If they decide that "no we won't do that," my brothers only option is to prove that the work done was shoddy and that the "mechanic" who fixed it should not have touched the bike at all in the small claims tribunal or similar sort of hearing.
Thirdly, and this really was a surprise, because the bike is not mine and i was borrowing it, i'm under no obligation at all to fix anything, talk to the 3rd party or organise anything to do with the bike. I cannot be liable for any damages at all unless stated in a written contract, which there was none.

Now because i am his brother and yes my in-experience is partly to blame for what happened, i am doing the running backwards and forwards between the 3rd party and my brother. Hell i even offered to buy the bike for $200, which was the price he wanted for it while i didn't have a bike, i knew he needed some transport while he pulled apart his new bike and cleaned the top of the engine and did a few other things to it, so i offered him the use of my new $5500 bike for 7 days while i was away on holiday. How many people would do that? This wasn't good enough so i then had to go and speak to a free lawyer and find out all the infomation that i've written above.

So guys pay me out all you like but please bear the few things in mind that i have written down above and remember even though i don't legally have to do shit, i'm still doing the hard yards to get the bike fixed and back in a warrentable condition as soon as possible.

[Sniper]

Easy there Spud and Bro.

Sibling rivalry can be funny at times.... right now its not.

Gareth, you did the right thing. There are a couple of pointers I can see in which you have been incorrectly informed, but good on ya for going ahead and still doing your damndest to fix it.

Remember, things like this have the potential to drive families apart. Sit down and work it out between you.

[Buster]

A hard lesson learned by all by the sounds of it.

Bikes can be replaced..... Bro's cant.

[yungatart]

You boys need to sit down together over a beer and talk this one out. You are brothers and there is more at stake here than a bike.
Good luck and stay calm:sunny:

[Gareth123]

And as far as i'm concerned he will always be my brother, no matter how many impersonal letters i get. BUT he needs to remember that if he tries to dump shit on me, i'm gonna do my best to try and deal with him but in the end, if he's too unreasonable, just won't compromise and keeps putting me into a tighter squeeze, I'm gonna go and dump a bigger pile of shit on him. Its karma. Always remember guys, what goes around comes around!

[Gareth123]

Hey sniper would love to know where i've been mislead. The lady at the lawyers was most helpful

[Sniper]

Hey sniper would love to know where i've been mislead. The lady at the lawyers was most helpful

As she should be.

But you are still liable for all damages caused to your brothers bike even when you were not under a contractual agreement.


BUT he needs to remember that if he tries to dump shit on me, i'm gonna do my best to try and deal with him but in the end, if he's too unreasonable, just won't compromise and keeps putting me into a tighter squeeze, I'm gonna go and dump a bigger pile of shit on him. Its karma. Always remember guys, what goes around comes around!

You are both young and I think are dealing with this in the wrong frame of mind. You guys need a mediator, maybe a parent or a close friend of BOTH of you?

[The Stranger]

Weather or not your obligation is legal it is certainly moral to return the bike in at least the condition you recieved it.

As to saying that the repair need not be done by a mechanic or someone in the trade even, how would that fly with you if your insurer tried that shit on you?

What do you mean partly to blame? Did you hit the car? Sounds like you simply freaked out and panicked. Not your brothers fault you did that, probably not even the cars fault you went for the wrong brake.

Accept responsibility, put it right and yes, he has a right to expect it repaired by a professional, just as you would if you had a machine repaired by an insurer.

[mstriumph]

........... i offered him the use of my new $5500 bike for 7 days while i was away on holiday. ...........

and, if he had accepted the offer, borrowed your bike and crashed it, YOU would expect that he get it fixed for you

...... because that's fair

- so i really don't see where you are coming from with the "i'm under no obligation" shite - of course you are .......... morally if not legally [and i'm doubtful about the advice you were given, too]

- do you REALLY want us to believe you are doing the 'running around' grudgingly and not because it's you that bent it, you that should fix it because THAT'S THE FAIR THING TO DO?

C'mon, fella - i know that brothers squabble but -------- sheeeesh - this is daft!!

[Spuds1234]

Gees I never expected this thread to open such a can of worms.

I will say this though, Gareth and I get along just fine. At the time we were discussing things last night, I was angry. I feel I had every right to be. I made that letter impersonal so that every second line didnt really re-inforce the fact that he crashed my bike. I was trying not to rub salt into the wound so to speak.

Also I wrote the letter because it is easier to get your point across uninterrupted and clearly (far better than trying to get it all into a text or two). There can be no mistakes, and you have it down on paper what you said.

Personally I would have loved to borrow his bike for a week but going into winter and riding a strange bike on wet cold roads isnt exactly smart. That and I cant afford to fix a bike that expensive at the moment.

Anyway it seems things will all get sorted now. Although Im starting to think that next time if something like this happens Im just going to say "Fuck it, let the insurance deal with it" Its to much hassle to fuck around like this with people fixing things on the cheap because they cant man up to the fact that they fucked up (this is aimed at the person that pulled out in front of Gareth).

And I have learned something very useful throughout this whole ordeal. A warrant doesnt matter if your not at fault. Thats extremely good information to know.

As to the people saying "Sort your shit out between the two of you, get a mediator. Have a beer" that doesn't need doing. Its all cool now. Take this piece of advice to heart people:

Dont try and sort anything major out through text messaging. Its a waste of time. A series of 2 minute phone calls throughout the day will always work better than constant txting where the tone of words can me mis-understood and the wrong impressions given.

And yes we do get along fine. And that comment did hit close to home.

I wasn't expecting my brother to pay for anything. He wouldn't have been found at fault, so it would be up to the other party. Hence why I wanted the bike fixed properly by a mechanic where if the indicator fell off a week later I could go back to them and say "Dude, my bikes still fucked. You did a shit job"

And for those that said that morally it was up to him to fix the bike, I thank you. That is exactly what I thought should happen. There need to be more people that think like that in the world. I just wanted my bike fixed and couldn't understand why I should have to run around to fix it when I didnt break it. Unfortunatly there will always be people out there who will always look for ways out of this kind of thing. But what goes around comes around.

Im sure I probably missed a few points that were made in the previous posts but such is life.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions guys.

[marty]

it's a big call to say that the car was at fault. if a kid ran out chasing a ball, and the same lay-down happened, who's fault would it be?

the car pulling it out may have been a FACTOR, but i struggle with your absolving of fault

[Spuds1234]

Different kettle of fish I think Marty.

I was going to write down what I would do and try to make myself seem like a good person, but ultimatly it just came down to self presivation. I would do what I could to avoid the kid. But if I couldnt help it and would definatly hit him no matter what I could do I would do whats best for myself.