Pea gravel

[Keystone19]

Has Transit New Zealand recently started laying down new gravel and then leaving it for road users to bed it down without leaving up warning signs? Or have they always done this and I've just not noticed it before?

Places I have seen this in the last month:

Riverhead - Coatesville Highway
Kaiuaua GP
A couple of places on the Coro Loop

[Shadows]

They've always done it and you haven't noticed.
Its just that they haven't got enough signs to go around, and they have decided it is better to have roadworks and 30kph signs up in areas where they simply haven't finished painting lines on the road or where they are working on a footpath, than to have the signs in places where there is actually a hazard worth telling road users about.

[NotaGoth]

How bout gravel the size of golf balls.... For what seemed like 2km, maybe more...... On a passing lane.. Going up a hill... No signage whatsoever to say that the left lane was going to end up being closed either... Just cones placed on a blind corner to close off that lane... There was alot of it..
Wasn't on my bike.. Was in my cage.. Did alot of damage even trying to crawl at snails pace though.. Wouldn't have wanted to have been on my bike..
It was like it at 7am in the morning.. Think it had been like it overnight.. And I'd say they had a few complaints because the road was clean as when we came back through...

[The Pastor]

yeah its part of the construction process, there isnt actually A good way around it (for roads with a few bends + heavy traffic). If they lay seal down straight away it just gets ripped up.

My personal view is that gravel is awesome, and toughen up. (and don't ride so hard that if somthing unexpected turns up you cant safely get around the corner).

[Keystone19]

yeah its part of the construction process, there isnt actually A good way around it (for roads with a few bends + heavy traffic). If they lay seal down straight away it just gets ripped up.

My personal view is that gravel is awesome, and toughen up. (and don't ride so hard that if somthing unexpected turns up you cant safely get around the corner).

It seems to me that it is just a cheap form of roading - both in terms of content and construction process.

And I think you miss my point. I don't seem to recall noting anywhere that I found this a problem. Simply an observation.

[Big Dave]

There is a legal precedent for succesfully claiming damages from the council is the hazzard in not clearly signposted.

If you come off in it you can successfully sue - not much use if you are dead - but it has already happened in Wellington.

[The Pastor]

And I think you miss my point. I don't seem to recall noting anywhere that I found this a problem. Simply an observation.


I didnt say you did.


And yes it is a cheap roading, But you can thank the goverment for that one. :)



But if you care to know, The reason they leave the gravel on the road is two reasons.

Compaction - no matter how much you roll it with a roller traffic will do the compaction 10 times better as its 24/7.

To get the ALD (average least dimention) correct. basicly this makes all the gravel to be seeted so that it is lieing sideways (so that the bitchomen has more stone to stick to).


(and of cource money)

[White trash]

It seems to me that it is just a cheap form of roading - both in terms of content and construction process.

And I think you miss my point. I don't seem to recall noting anywhere that I found this a problem. Simply an observation.
Could be you're just a blind bitch. Thought of that? Could even be old age setting in.......:)

[Grahameeboy]

I agree with Keystone. It seems to be worse these days.
Take the new Esmond Road roadworks. Signs are haphazard, often no signs of road narrowing..........it is crazy.

I came across new gravel on a bend at the weekend with no signs.

[jahrasti]

If it is a highway then Transit is at fault and get into them, if it is a council road, well they do what they want.
Depending on if it was a rehab(digging up the road) or a reseal then excess chip still might be coming off after it was sealed.
Traffic rolls the chip to get a good fit but it should still have to be swept to a good level.

It could even be a case of shit construction and it is blowing out I don't know these roads mentioned.

If there are roadworks without signs then that is horseshit and fucken dangerous and the contractor or whoever should have there balls cut off.

I may work in the industry but I know there are alot of wankers out there that think half pai is ka pai and charge an arm and a leg.
Moan to Transit (if it is a highway) untill you get an answer you are happy with.

[Big Dave]

If it is a highway then Transit is at fault and get into them, if it is a council road, well they do what they want.
.

Not since they had a judgement on this matter go against them.

[Keystone19]

Could be you're just a blind bitch. Thought of that? Could even be old age setting in.......:)

This is true...old, blind and waaaay too fast...

[rok-the-boat]

They are probably in league with the boys in blue (bib) - instead of doing a good job they save money by leaving a 30kph sign up and then the bibs can hide around the corner and catch you because nobody can go as slow as 30kph unless they are about to stop.

Riding in the UK I often noticed that when they laid a new road there was usually a van lingering nearby ... selling new windscreens. Keep your Visors down!

[Xtat1k]

Lol coming back from Kaiaua a few weeks back there was a shit load of it, unsigned, downhill on the corners for about 3-4km, whata bitch that was.

[Ixion]

,,they save money by leaving a 30kph sign up and then the bibs can hide around the corner and catch you because nobody can go as slow as 30kph unless they are about to stop.

,,

??? Eh? Wotcha on abart Willis. I should hope that ANY biker can go a whole lot slower than 30kph indefinately without problems. You should be able to ride perfectly comfortably for any distance at less than 5kph let alone 30.

[sunhuntin]

when i went up the paras two weeks ago, there was signs almost every 2 corners screaming 30k. two or 3 loose gravel stones, or maybe some unpainted lines. nothing worth putting up signs for.
hit one patch that went for two corners... all huge lumps of stone the size of a persons thumb. due to all the not needed 30k signs, myself and the cars behind me hit it too fast [bout 50k from memory] totally stupid. signs where they aint needed dumb the senses down. just stick up a sign saying "no road markings" but dont speed limit it... the paras ya cant go fast on anyways!

did hit one patch heading north to kaikoura last year... on the north side of one of those tunnels. couple of meters worth of loose pea stones. no signs on the other side of the tunnel. no warning. if id been going 100k, it would been straight across the road and into the water.

[Sanx]

I had one a while back coming back from Taupo on SH1 just before (going north) Mercer. Lots of signs indicating roadworks, a 60kph speed limit and the generic 'New Seal' sign. It was 9pm and pitch black. Being a good boy who always follows speed limits (:innocent:) I slowed to about 55ish.
Except it wasn't new seal - it was loose metal. Rocks about half the size of your fist on a rough concrete base. I'm not entirely sure how the hell I kept upright. Crawled through the rest of it at about 20kph.
Called TransitNZ when I got home and somehow managed to find someone on duty at night. Gave him a relatively polite earful, and to his credit he did something about it that evening - even called me back up the next morning to tell me he'd dropped the speed limit to 30kph and put up warning signs indicating rough loose metal.
Props also due to the truckie behind me when all this happened. He must have seen me sliding about all over the place because he slammed on his brakes and then tripled the distance between us.

Sunhuntin's also got a point. Every set of roadworks seems to carry a 30k sign. These signs seem to go up days before anything happens, and then hang around long after everything's finished. They even have 30k signs for when roadworks are taking place on side roads. problem is, people see these constantly, see that there's now work going on or no hazard and eventually people just ignore them. If the contractors just used them when they were genuinely required and took them down at night when no-one was working (provided the road was safe), people might pay more attention to them.

[Back Fire]

But if you care to know, The reason they leave the gravel on the road is two reasons.

Compaction - no matter how much you roll it with a roller traffic will do the compaction 10 times better as its 24/7.



and thats why after a couple of weeks theres a nice pair of 2 foot wide tar snakes?

[rok-the-boat]

??? Eh? Wotcha on abart Willis. I should hope that ANY biker can go a whole lot slower than 30kph indefinately without problems. You should be able to ride perfectly comfortably for any distance at less than 5kph let alone 30.

Hey, I used to be able to balance on my bike without moving.

Anyway, what gets me is a 30kph sign on a big open road and no sensible reason except a few bits of gravel or roadworks that don't exist. I find it almost impossible to constrain myself to 30 in such a situation, and so does everyone else, so it would seem. Try reading between the lines ...

[SPman]

Not since they had a judgement on this matter go against them.
...or several...

[peasea]

Lol coming back from Kaiaua a few weeks back there was a shit load of it, unsigned, downhill on the corners for about 3-4km, whata bitch that was.

Went out to Castlepoint a few years back, in the dark, more than a dozen bikes. No sweat until we came to make our exit the next morning. Sharp left-hander, pea gravel everywhere on our side of the road, five off's! There were no signs going in or out and of couse we hadn't seen it on the other side of the road in the night. We weren't going fast either. There were some injuries (my shoulder still plays up) and the local council put it down to "a section of road that has failed". After our immediate complaint we went straight back out to photograph the spot and the road had been swept.

Whaddya do?

[peasea]

what gets me is a 30kph sign on a big open road and no sensible reason except a few bits of gravel or roadworks that don't exist

....and not a worker in sight, but you still get ticketed..........
Irritating.

[jahrasti]

Not since they had a judgement on this matter go against them.

Good cause they are fucken shady

[FROSTY]

I was one of those lucky enough to get coin out of the council.
Short version--At traffic lights on an intersection -pulled round the corner--did a fast sit down in deep gravel.
Called the cops -cops had a spit-cars sliding to a halt on unmarked roadworks/pea gravel
Council paid for all repairs to the bike

[Motu]

I nearly got a ticket from pea gravel - I came through an intersection around the outside of some cars,sideways through the gravel built up in the centre....when the bike hooked up I pulled a wheel stand down West Coast Rd,straight into a Cop who saw the whole thing.We talked bikes for awhile,because he was pretty impressed with the bike I was riding,then told me to tone it down a bit.

You just got to change your attitude on how you approach this stuff.

[kro]

There is a legal precedent for succesfully claiming damages from the council is the hazzard in not clearly signposted.

If you come off in it you can successfully sue - not much use if you are dead - but it has already happened in Wellington.

I think you're right. I know that any contractor who does not have his road side work zone properly signed/coned off, can be fined up to 100k or there abouts, so there is a strong emphasis on site safety for all concerned.

My first road bin was on my RD250 on the first bridge just as you get to Waitakaruru, where the turn off to Miranda is, and they had left that pea metal all over the road, and you could not see where the drifts of it were, against the new road surface, which was in the same metal, so I smacked into the bridge to show how dangerous it was......

[limbimtimwim]

just stick up a sign saying "no road markings" but dont speed limit it... the paras ya cant go fast on anyways!The Paraparas? Oh yes. Yes you can. That road is always being worked on. Terrible really, it would be one of the best racetra.. I mean roads in the North Island.

But on topic: I have also noticed sometimes one gets a 30km/h sign, and it is for easy to see works. Then a few K down the road, no sign, for works that are obviously part of the same maintenance project. Annoying.

Actually, my biggest peve with roadworks at the moment I have spotted in some places (Esp in the central North Island) is a strange practise of finishing the works, then just leaving the signs there, but sitting in a ditch or turned around. Every time I see a roadworks sign like that I slow down even more, suspecting it is some prank by a bored local.

[NighthawkNZ]

And yes it is a cheap roading, But you can thank the goverment for that one. :)


I thank the government for every ferking thing :yes:

[The Pastor]

I thank them for my $1000 for doing abosutly nothing.

[Ixion]

My particular peeve is that there is often not a "works end" and derestriction sign.

That in itself would not be a major issue. It is usually easy to see that there are no works

But there is another trick. Where there is a works/30kph sign. And obvious stuff going on. Then clear road with no sign of works. For several kilometres. Round a bend or so. "Hm, guess they forgot to put out the end signs. OK , back to 100mumble". Then round another bend , and more works. And after that a works end sign. So technically the bit of clear road in between was subject to the 30kph. But since they often do forget the end signs, how long do you ride with no sign of works before asusming it must be clear now ? I bet the cops love those ones.

[Sanx]

My particular peeve is that there is often not a "works end" and derestriction sign.

That in itself would not be a major issue. It is usually easy to see that there are no works

But there is another trick. Where there is a works/30kph sign. And obvious stuff going on. Then clear road with no sign of works. For several kilometres. Round a bend or so. "Hm, guess they forgot to put out the end signs. OK , back to 100mumble". Then round another bend , and more works. And after that a works end sign. So technically the bit of clear road in between was subject to the 30kph. But since they often do forget the end signs, how long do you ride with no sign of works before asusming it must be clear now ? I bet the cops love those ones.

I had a similar problem in the UK a few years back. Major roadworks on the M1 / M62 junction at Leeds. The road was restricted to 50mph for the length of the road works, but there was no de-restriction sign at the end of the works in either direction. I drove this road every day and knew there were no signs. So - I sped up when the cones ended. And then, one day, got pinged a mile or so later for breaking the temporary speed limit.

Decided the fight the ticket in court, and came armed with a video tape. The previous day, I'd gone out with a video camera and driven from said junction back to where I lived in Manchester (about 100kms). The video clearly showed there was no de-restriction sign at any point along the route.

The magistrates, much to the annoyance of the police prosecutor, agreed that in the absence of any de-restriction sign (and I had to show that I drove the road every day and knew there was no such sign) the temporary speed limit could only apply to the area in which there was work going on. Essentially, it then fell on the driver to use his common sense. The charge was thrown out, and I got my costs refunded plus compensation for a day off work.

I'm sure the same would apply here, but you'd have to prove that a) you drove the road regularly enough to know there was no such de-restriction sign, and b) you only sped up when there was no evidence of works; no cones, no new seal, etc.

[peasea]

My particular peeve is that there is often not a "works end" and derestriction sign.

That in itself would not be a major issue. It is usually easy to see that there are no works

But there is another trick. Where there is a works/30kph sign. And obvious stuff going on. Then clear road with no sign of works. For several kilometres. Round a bend or so. "Hm, guess they forgot to put out the end signs. OK , back to 100mumble". Then round another bend , and more works. And after that a works end sign. So technically the bit of clear road in between was subject to the 30kph. But since they often do forget the end signs, how long do you ride with no sign of works before asusming it must be clear now ? I bet the cops love those ones.


When I sat my bike license I got into some road works and there was no 'works end' sign. I rode at 30kph for ages, until the next 50kph sign I saw. The tester questioned me back at base but was in agreement that I did the right thing, even though it took forever to complete the circuit. (I passed as it happens but what if that were SH1 or somewhere? We'd have taken weeks to get home.)

[Big Dave]

i believe it's very painful.

[Bonez]

i believe it's very painful.Peeing gravel?

[Mully]

i believe it's very painful.

Dammit, you beat me to it.

I was going to suggest getting a prescription from the doctor to clear it up.

[avgas]

Mabey cos im just hicksville BOP im used to it. Used to get at least 1 bike ass-off round coro per ride.
Aren't the transit guys the drop-outs from the Ministry of Works?

[Big Dave]

Dammit, you beat me to it.
.

it's a gift.

[Big Dave]

Peeing gravel?

Apparently the most painful thing known to man.

[Bonez]

Apparently the most painful thing known to man.It's a bit hard to swallow.

[geoffm]

Anyone got the legal case number, reference, etc of the previous case(s) where the council got sued and had to pay due to unsignposted roadworks? I think I will keep a copy in the archives, and everytime I come across this situation they will get a warning, and if it all goes wrong for me one day, then I have the ammunition ready.
If you do fall off on unsignposted roadworks, take a video (with time and date) ove the surrounding road to show there are no signs, to stop them putting the signs up later and denying all knowledge.
Geoff

[Big Dave]

Anyone got the legal case number, reference, etc of the previous case(s) where the council got sued and had to pay due to unsignposted roadworks? I think I will keep a copy in the archives, and everytime I come across this situation they will get a warning, and if it all goes wrong for me one day, then I have the ammunition ready.
If you do fall off on unsignposted roadworks, take a video (with time and date) ove the surrounding road to show there are no signs, to stop them putting the signs up later and denying all knowledge.
Geoff


Can't find it easily. He's a mate of Merv's...Chris?....Former Welligton Councillor and Musem hotel man. Report was in the Dom.

[Arthur]

In a sense I was lucky growing up on a gravel road - I know the process for laying down the road surface is much different between gravel and seal, and that should make you glad you aren't riding on purely gravel roads. The council sends out a grader (to cut costs they send out a light one - it costs less to purchase and has smaller running costs) which is meant to carve out corrugations and pot-holes - if it's a light grader it barely scratches the surface. The trucks come along and pour some new gravel, followed by the grader again to spread it the width of the road. On a well travelled gravel road (maybe twenty vehicles a day) it takes about a fortnight for the traffic to sweep the gravel to the center and sides of the road so you have something you can actually grip...

[sunhuntin]

In a sense I was lucky growing up on a gravel road - I know the process for laying down the road surface is much different between gravel and seal, and that should make you glad you aren't riding on purely gravel roads. The council sends out a grader (to cut costs they send out a light one - it costs less to purchase and has smaller running costs) which is meant to carve out corrugations and pot-holes - if it's a light grader it barely scratches the surface. The trucks come along and pour some new gravel, followed by the grader again to spread it the width of the road. On a well travelled gravel road (maybe twenty vehicles a day) it takes about a fortnight for the traffic to sweep the gravel to the center and sides of the road so you have something you can actually grip...

yeh... not much fun though when they do it in a street with houses. they did the road i live on a while back. it was left unswept for about a month... everytime i left and came home again, i nearly assed off due to the stones in the edge of the driveway. i was not impressed.

[speeding_ant]

Wellington city council is notorious for not putting signs up around the backroads of Hataitai. I have had several encounters with unsigned filled in holes. Came off on my old RG on one of them.. Not good!

We pay our regestration fees/petrol tax too! Well, most of the time.. Maybe its the lack of knoweledge/thought gone into most of the road works by the council. They should be more considerate to the two wheeled vehicles out there!