Pajero vs Bighorn. What to buy?

[nallac]

Hey guys n gals.
just sold the wifes V8 and we are looking to get a 7 seater
diesel 4x4.shes preggers again with kid #3.so need bigger wagon.
So who can help me with the whole jero vs horn thing?.
whats the best one reliability wise what sort of economy can we expect
and any other shit good bad.
Basically we are after a 95+ wagon 2.8 or 3.1 TD with under 150k's.
Lookin forward to all the smart comments.:rolleyes:

[Madness]

I wouldn't touch a Pajero 2.8lt Diesel with a very long pole. They're known for the timing pulley flogging off the end of the crank, a mate has gone through a couple of motors in his & has now given up.

EDIT;/ Buy a Toyota, you'll pay more but it'll be worth it

[MVnut]

Pajero, no...Bighorn, no...hope you've got a 3rd option, maybe a van?

[xwhatsit]

Get a Mini Clubman. S'all my dad needed for the family for a few years :)

[86GSXR]

I'm not sure of the specs, but I've not heard a lot of good things about Pajero's. What about a Toyota, they're great.

[nallac]

Pajero, no...Bighorn, no...hope you've got a 3rd option, maybe a van?

yeah we had a third option . prado .but we can't afford one.van/people mover out of the question :sick: .Not quite at that retirement/given up on life sort of stage.:zzzz:

[dogsnbikes]

Stay away from the 2.8s if you end up looking at a 96 Isuzu they changed the 3.1TD duing that year and can be thirsty on gas also

[onearmedbandit]

Go for a 3l TD Prado 7 seater. Sure some will have horror stories about those as well, but after 11yrs in the car industry I have found them to be an extremely reliable, sound vehicle. Would expect to pay more than $22,000 from a dealer for a 97-98 with under 100km. Probably pay between 18-20 if you're sharp enough.

As with any second hand vehicle, especially td stuff, buy a GOOD aftermarket warranty, like DriveRights. Sure, depending on the dealer it may cost $1000-1200 but you'll be greatful in the event of a breakdown. DriveRights come with roadside rescue, 7500 service intervals on diesels (with no time requirement), and if the vehicle is under 120,000km at time of sale a generous individual claim limit. I have used them for a number of years now and always had excellent service from them, and so have my customers.

edit - What sort of budget are you looking at?

[Motu]

You'll probably find the Bighorn to be more expensive for given year and mileage than a Pajero.The 4M40 engine in the 2.8 Pajero is not that great,no cam belt,but I really don't like alloy heads on a diesel....it becomes a service item,one day it will crack and need a new one.The bighorn has a cambelt,and I think that's worse than an alloy head on a diesel....break a belt and a hell of a lot of metal ends up in the scrap bin.The Bighorn engine is a shit load more expensive to rebuild than the Pajero.28mpg max from both,going down as you work them harder.

You can get a V6 option for both....and halve the fuel figures for them.They feel a lot more powerful than the diesels....until you make them work,they get gutless very quick as the weight goes up....and suck even more fuel.Both good engines - but they have cambelts,and waterpumps and tensioners and,and,and.

Running gear on both is top knotch - the only thing on either that gives trouble is the engines.....but that's enough.The Japs build diesels that only last as long as a petrol engine,and cost more to run and fix.

[onearmedbandit]

With the exception of the TD42, would you agree Motu? In my time I've come across a number of these with huge mileage and still going strong. Two I know of have passed 700,000km with no major (ie stripping) work done.

[ridetwins]

...........was gonna bleat on about a surf.... but realised you need 7 seats... def go for a prado then.... we all know what pajero means in spanish so dont go there....

[candor]

A few friends had Pajeros that crapped out. Heard nothing bad re bighorns

[scracha]

Mrs not had any problems with an ancient 2.4 turbo diesel Pajero over the past year or so. Thing's got over 200,000kms on the clock and been pulling horse boxes etc on daily basis. Got the oil and filters changed when she bought it and that's been about it. Not a bad buy for $2700. Wouldn't touch an Isuzu with a bargepole. Might be worth checking out Nissan Safari or Toyota Hilux if you don't need the 7 seats? How about a nice Volvo T5 estate :third:

Did I miss something but you, missus and 3 kids != 7 seats?

[onearmedbandit]

Did I miss something but you, missus and 3 kids != 7 seats?

Kids have friends. And for when other people are over, family etc.

[Zukin]

Hi

Here is a copy of a post on another topic here on KB, I hope ti helps

Well as a 4wd tour operator, you would have to look closely at the Mitsi Pajero.
For what you want it would best suit your requirements.
It has one of the best tow ratings of any 4wd, can go anywhere if you need to, and are reasonably price and bullet proof

In regards to the specific models, I would suggest a 93+, either in SWB (short wheel base) or LWB (long wheel base), the LWB has better towing than the SWB.
In regards to the motors, dont even look at the 2.5, only go for the 2.8 (engine 4M40 is the diesel) these are great, in fact they used the same motor in their diesel utes up until last year.
The 2.5 is a lemon, engine is dodgy and the trans is not very good either

The 2.8 comes in auto and manual gearbox, and both are good, but for what I used mine for I chose the auto. It is great for real 4wding, on both ascents and desents, and good in the mud if you know how to drive it properly.
.

Just my thoughts, and if you want to see a war, ask for is the best 4x4 on a 4x4 website!!

Cheers Scott

[JimO]

i have had a 96 prado for 4.5 years -comfortable, fast, reliable,tows my 18ft caravan and 17 ft boat no worries, good resale and i have had a Pajero and would never own another.......weak gearbox, cracked head, eventually motor shit itself

[one-speed]

no no stay away from the pajaro
go the prado good toy motor quility

[Crisis management]

I have had a 93 Bighorn for 6 years now with about 250km's on it. I looked at Pajero's as an option before I bought and am glad I bought the Bighorn (despite that really embarrasing name).
Short answer (as others have said) is that the Pajero's are weak mechanically, the Isuzu is built like a brick shithouse but they seem to have weak ancillaries, starter motors, alternators and auto gearboxes can pack up.
The main mechanical stuff, motor & chassis is robust as all hell.

I like it because it can tow stuff, handles well (for a 4x4) and is well built. I don't like paying for the fuel or repairs, they are thirsty and costly to maintain. You need a good reason to want to pay for the running costs.

Quality wise I rate the Toyota as a better vehicle but value for money the Isuzu was what I chose.

If you are only after a people carrier, I would look at a petrol people carrier or station wagon or if $ is enough a modern diesel version but not a 4x4.

Look seriously at the potential running costs the 4x4 is bloody expensive.

[Coyote]

You could maybe get a car. Good fuel economy, not like to kill the occupants of the other car you crash into whilst talking on your cellphone, don't pollute so much, easier to park...

[nallac]

thanks guys
We are leaning towards the bighorn but still want to know more.
Would love a Prado but out of our budget $10k.and they crack heads.
what are the big yearly running costs that are associated with the diesels?.
Besides the blown motors cracked heads?.

techanly dont need a 7 seater, but not going to put baby inbetween the two fighting kids we got allready.

[smoky]

yeah we had a third option . prado .but we can't afford one.van/people mover out of the question :sick: .Not quite at that retirement/given up on life sort of stage.:zzzz:

Prado's are worth it - they're bloody good.
Personaly I wouldn't go for a pajero or bighorn, they're really substandard; put a few klm's on it and you won't be able to sell it for love nor money, put a new set of tyres on and you double it's value. If something goes wrong with the drive units or engine you'll end up spending more than what it's worth to fix it. I know people who have them parked up, or give them away - it's cheaper to get another one than to fix the old one.

If you can't afford a Prado then check out a Surf with the prado engine, I have a Nissan Navara - very reliable and affordable.

I've also got a Toyota Grandvia Van - it's got a 3ltr Turbo Diesel Prado engine in it. You can get them in 4x4 too. It's certainly not a 'given up on life thing at all'. My wife loves the room in them, and the fact she just lifts the pram up and puts it in the back with out folding it up. If you test drove one you might change your mind.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Why the hell do you need a bloody 4x4

is your wife going to be a serious off road driver?? i think not.

What is with this countries inability to think logically and buy a car that is more fuel efficient, safer, and less of an eye sore.

I mean really, what 'advantages' does a big 4x4 have over nice stationwagon? .... So the driver can drive like a complete fuckwit and be completly oblivious to the people around??

[Madness]

I mean really, what 'advantages' does a big 4x4 have over nice stationwagon? .... So the driver can drive like a complete fuckwit and be completly oblivious to the people around??


You & me need to go for a play up in the hills sometime in my Missus' 4x4. You'll see.

[Sketchy_Racer]

hills as in muddy grass hills, or as in road hills??

[kro]

My local mechanic said the same as what Motu said, so I ditched the idea of an SUV style vehicle, and bought a cruddy old Nissan Skyline wagon, which has been a pearler, and at the 3 year mark, hasn't failed a warrant yet.

I'd never owned a Nissan before it, and would gladly buy another now.

[Macktheknife]

I know this may not be terribly helpful, but,
I would take an older Toyota over either vehicle myself.
Good luck finding what you need.

[Madness]

hills as in muddy grass hills, or as in road hills??

The track off the Akatarawa summit it fun, scary but fun.

[nallac]

Why the hell do you need a bloody 4x4

is your wife going to be a serious off road driver?? i think not.

What is with this countries inability to think logically and buy a car that is more fuel efficient, safer, and less of an eye sore.

I mean really, what 'advantages' does a big 4x4 have over nice stationwagon? .... So the driver can drive like a complete fuckwit and be completly oblivious to the people around??

because we want one thats why.

whats with owning a motor bike for transport when you can only take 2 people max when you can buy a little suzuki/toyota etc 4seater car that gets the same fuel economy?.
Its all about personal choice.
its what we want.

[nallac]

Prado's are worth it - they're bloody good.
Personaly I wouldn't go for a pajero or bighorn, they're really substandard; put a few klm's on it and you won't be able to sell it for love nor money, put a new set of tyres on and you double it's value. If something goes wrong with the drive units or engine you'll end up spending more than what it's worth to fix it. I know people who have them parked up, or give them away - it's cheaper to get another one than to fix the old one.

If you can't afford a Prado then check out a Surf with the prado engine, I have a Nissan Navara - very reliable and affordable.

I've also got a Toyota Grandvia Van - it's got a 3ltr Turbo Diesel Prado engine in it. You can get them in 4x4 too. It's certainly not a 'given up on life thing at all'. My wife loves the room in them, and the fact she just lifts the pram up and puts it in the back with out folding it up. If you test drove one you might change your mind.

we have driven a grandvia one of our friends has got one.
they go bloody well for what they are. the wife drove it back from Auks on thursday said it went well but doesn't think she could handle a bus.
father inlaw has got a 96 3l td surf goes hard but not seven seater.
I'd like a toyota but can't stretch the budget that far.

re given up on life that was a little bit of bad sarcasim

[chanceyy]

i have a 96 bighorn, 3.1 ... its great .. seriously would look at another one in future .. comfy to drive long distance .. does not have much pick up at low speed but cruises very well over 100ks .. & has great pick up in high gear ..

excellent to tow very stable (both horses & stockcars)

running costs .. My truck is weighted for 3 ton .. yes this does cost more than if it was weighted for 2 ton, but figured with 2 big horses & float would be just over the two ton mark anyhow ..

I get approx 5-600ks on a tank of diesel, & am meticulous about regular fuel/oil filter changes .. had it about 18months & no other major repairs needed ..

we brought it on special for just over 10,000 & still has not depreciated that much

so Road user charges for 5,000ks approx $175, rego for a yr bout 250 & then since i have great friends who do the oil changes etc .. approx $90 every 5000 ks

dunno that I will ever change back to a car ..

[ninjac]

IMHO if you cant stretch to a Toyota Prado and looking at older models go for the Nissan Patrol.

[Motu]

With the exception of the TD42, would you agree Motu?

All the TD Nissan engines,4 and 6 cyl,Nissan make the best diesel engine of all the Japanese.My LD20 powered Vanette has done 325,000km and has given no problems at all apart from oil leaks,starter and alt....the Pajero has done 310,000km,but it has taken 2 engines and 3 cyl heads to get there.

The Prado is pretty good,but bloody ugly...it's an '80's design school throw back.The 2LT gives more cyl head problems than both Mitsi engines combined,the 3L is much better,but can break cranks.The later Toyota diesels use bucket followers - a broken cambelt in this style of engine means a broken camshaft and total destruction of the head....Mitsi and Isuzu just break rockers or bend pushrods.None of these diesel engines can be overheated without problems - I've never seen a 2LT or 3C Toyota overheat without cracking the head,there is no room for error.

For those who want to rubbish the Mitsi 4x4 auto - in the trade it's known as the ''Toyota'' box,it's an Asian Warner,but used in more Toyota's than Mitsi's.

[Sniper]

Toyota Previa? Why the 4wheel drive need?

[nallac]

yeah thought about them or vx landcruiser, but thought they'd be to slow,
haven't driven either of them thou.

[nallac]

Toyota Previa? Why the 4wheel drive need?

2.4 petrol? they use as much gas as our V8 fairmont we sold.
4x4? don't really need it.
just handy to have.good to tow with.etc.

[Ixion]

All the TD Nissan engines,4 and 6 cyl,Nissan make the best diesel engine of all the Japanese.My LD20 powered Vanette has done 325,000km and has given no problems at all apart from oil leaks,starter and alt....the Pajero has done 310,000km,but it has taken 2 engines and 3 cyl heads to get there.

The Prado is pretty good,but bloody ugly...it's an '80's design school throw back.The 2LT gives more cyl head problems than both Mitsi engines combined,the 3L is much better,but can break cranks.The later Toyota diesels use bucket followers - a broken cambelt in this style of engine means a broken camshaft and total destruction of the head....Mitsi and Isuzu just break rockers or bend pushrods.None of these diesel engines can be overheated without problems - I've never seen a 2LT or 3C Toyota overheat without cracking the head,there is no room for error.

For those who want to rubbish the Mitsi 4x4 auto - in the trade it's known as the ''Toyota'' box,it's an Asian Warner,but used in more Toyota's than Mitsi's.

My old 2.6L petrol PajeroBomb has done about 290000 km , no problems, original motor. Valve stem seals leak a bit of oil, it smokes for a couple of minutes when I start it after sitting for 2 or 3 weeks. Goes everywhere. Score so far is Pajero 1 (tree knocked over) , trees 1 (Pajero bumper dented)

Costs a fair bit in repairs to brakes and steering and suchlike, haven't spent a penny on the motor or transmission (manual) .

Do none of the Japs make a simple OHV iron head diesel? I can't see the point of alloy heads and OHC on a diesel, let alone bucket cam followers. WTF is with that, how high do the things rev anyway?

To me , a diesel is supposed to be a rock solid , low revving engine that goes for ever. Proper truck diesels regulalrly turn in over a million km without overhaul. That's what I expect from a diesel, not less longevity than petrol. Otherwise you might as well get a petrol engine.

[Sniper]

2.4 petrol? they use as much gas as our V8 fairmont we sold.
4x4? don't really need it.
just handy to have.good to tow with.etc.


Yea, I think you can get them in diesel too. I wasn't aware they use alot of petrol. Mind you Ive never owned one

[onearmedbandit]

Why the hell do you need a bloody 4x4

is your wife going to be a serious off road driver?? i think not.

What is with this countries inability to think logically and buy a car that is more fuel efficient, safer, and less of an eye sore.

I mean really, what 'advantages' does a big 4x4 have over nice stationwagon? .... So the driver can drive like a complete fuckwit and be completly oblivious to the people around??

FFS, get over it. People could make the same generalisation about motorcyclists being idiots, speeding everywhere, doing wheelies, scaring children, downright dangerous.

[Motu]

Do none of the Japs make a simple OHV iron head diesel? I can't see the point of alloy heads and OHC on a diesel, let alone bucket cam followers. WTF is with that, how high do the things rev anyway?

To me , a diesel is supposed to be a rock solid , low revving engine that goes for ever. Proper truck diesels regulalrly turn in over a million km without overhaul. That's what I expect from a diesel, not less longevity than petrol. Otherwise you might as well get a petrol engine.

The Nissan TD series engines are what you want - TD23,27 and 42 6cyl,and others too.Chain drive cam,pushrods and cast iron head - the real deal diesel,run it until your grandkids pass it on to theirs.If you were a commercial operator and someone came to you with a new engine to run....and it was a diesel with dry liners and alloy head with a belt driven OHC that needed regular maintenance otherwise it would blow into a thousand pieces...you'd turn him around and out the door before he finished talking.A modern high speed diesel spins to 4500rpm,although my RD28 Nissan spins to 5200rpm....the rate of combustion doesn't allow them to spin more than 6,000rpm.A diesel doesn't need to make high rpm HP,it pulls under load,the combustion characteristics are suited to this kind of performance.

All these Japanese 4x4's are developments of earlier much more simple designs,your early petrol Pajero with no frills is closer to the original concept than my every extra laden model.....mind you,it hasn't got the heated seats,I really think it needs them....

[JimO]

regarding the Td Nissans when my pajero shit itself i repowered it with a 2.7 nissan motor, gearbox, transferbox costing $6500 (what the) and kept it for another couple of years then traded it as it was starting to rust it was a non turbo and fkn slow couldnt believe the difference between that and the handgrenade mitsie motor.I have had 6 Toyota Hiluxes for work trucks over the last 20 years and have had a prado also for the last 4.5 years and wouldnt bother with any other make. My latest hilux is the D4D model goes like shit off a stick and gets over 750 ks a tank, but it has had to have the thrust bearing replaced and that is also noisy, the last one was a 02 3ltr td dc 4x4 and in the 3 years i owned it i never opened the bonnet........ ever

[McJim]

Terrible options really.

Pajero is Spanish for wanker and Bighorn suggests you are aroused.

I used to have a Honda Odyssey. Enjoyed that car and could carry loadsa people and stuff. Sold it to another KBer.

Unlike some people on KB I don't have any grudges against people who drive offroad vehicles on the road - who am I to argue with people who actively want to advertise the fact that they're dicks? :rofl:

[JimO]

Terrible options really.

Pajero is Spanish for wanker and Bighorn suggests you are aroused.

I used to have a Honda Odyssey. Enjoyed that car and could carry loadsa people and stuff. Sold it to another KBer.

Unlike some people on KB I don't have any grudges against people who drive offroad vehicles on the road - who am I to argue with people who actively want to advertise the fact that they're dicks? :rofl:

i think you will find that most 4x4s arnt "off road " vehicles and just because you havnt found a use for one doesnt mean that the people who own one are dicks but everybody is entitled to their opinions like perhaps there are people out there who think people who ride vtr 250s are wankers

[Disco Dan]

Used to have Land Rover Discovery V8. Gorgous machine, and being English will last forever!!

I used to tow boats, cars, pull tree stumps clean out of the ground... 4X4 tracks felt like a straight highway!

Build quality was fantastic and only problem I ever had with it was a broken vacuum hose!

[Coyote]

FFS, get over it. People could make the same generalisation about motorcyclists being idiots, speeding everywhere, doing wheelies, scaring children, downright dangerous.
Agreed, bikes should be taxed off the roads

[Coyote]

Used to have Land Rover Discovery V8. Gorgous machine, and being English will last forever!!

Being English it'll last a few years then each warrant will start getting more and more expensive.

Could very well last you forever, just need to get a Toyota chassis and engine, take all the luxury electronics off like electric windows, etc. or keep it in the garage.

[McJim]

perhaps there are people out there who think people who ride vtr 250s are wankers

Well find me a buyer and save me from myself! It is for sale you know.

[nallac]

keep the cons coming guys,
don't seem to many pros for either.

whats the 3.2 nissan diesels like?

[Finn]

I'm not going to read 4 pages of shit, but get the Pajero. No contest.

[smoky]

Most Nissan's are rock solid man
love them:done:

[dickytoo]

I've had one Isuzu (a trooper), 3 Pajeros and 1 prado.

I love my 93 2.8L TD Pajero. It has been very reliable. I had to replace an alternator after 5 years of running and i think one window winder, also during that time. I still have it and it's coming up to 180K.

I test drove a big horn before i bought the pajero and i didn't like the handling. I've heard stories about the gearboxes on the Isuzus and I know a friend who had one had it in the shop many times trying to fix problems with it, including the gearbox.

I had problems with the hubs, clutch and head gasket on the Prado and the Isuzu blew it's engine big time. cost me about $5K to fix. they were also prone to rusting in some of the seams on the body.

[pete376403]

My sons 3.2V6 Bighorn shit its transmission (auto) at about 130,000km however it was towing a heavy trailer at the time, and he failed to stop as soon as it started to show signs of distress, so - mostly driver inflicted.
Trans was a fairly easy fix, I bought a rebuild kit and service manual from the US and completely overhauled it for around $600. BTW the same gearbox is used in some Hondas, BMWs and a lot of GM vehicles - Aisan-Warner 4L30V
While getting the trans in and out I had a good look underneath - must say everything looks very solid and well built, certainly very heavy
Worst thing about this car is access to engine ancilliaries - alternator, PS pump, exhaust flange bolts, etc., it's really tight.
Another fault it has had is the alternator has twice fried the slip rings and brushes, Fairly easy to repair with a slip ring and brush kit from Repco around $40.
Now if he would just fix the oil leak from the PS pump that is dribbling all over the alternator and probably causing the brushes to go bad...

[nallac]

so not much good stuff going for jeros or horns.A couple of positives but lots of negatives.
I suppose as with anything you get your good (prado)bad (horn)and terrible(jero)?.

would a prado with high k's eg 2ook's+ be more reliable than one of the others with lower k's?..

[JimO]

so not much good stuff going for jeros or horns.A couple of positives but lots of negatives.
I suppose as with anything you get your good (prado)bad (horn)and terrible(jero)?.

would a prado with high k's eg 2ook's+ be more reliable than one of the others with lower k's?..

depends on wether its been servised or not deisels dont like not being looked after

[Motu]

would a prado with high k's eg 2ook's+ be more reliable than one of the others with lower k's?..


No.

The engines are pretty good,but as I mentioned somewhere else in this thread...they can't stand overheating and will crack a head in the blink of an eye.And when they break a cambelt look for total destruction.....the Pajero and Bighorn are better in that regard.It all comes down to maintenance....and can you trust the previous owner?.On a diesel look at kms put up in long distance open road work,they will run forever in these conditions.

Nothing between any of then in the chassis and running gear department....it just comes down to which sort of engine failure you prefer.And they ALL will fail....the trick is to make sure you don't own it at that point.