No nothing

[NotaGoth]

Ok.. First off...

Yesterday CBobR road over my way so we could go out and do the Bays Road.... Sweet.. Checked I had enough fuel.. Checked my oil.. Everything was sweet... Got all geared up, went to start the bike.. And nope.. Nothing... Not even a cough...

Mum came out and had a look, tried kicking my bike over.. Again.. Nothing.. Yes the key was on btw!!! Checked my lights, nothing... No lights on the little display... "Your batteries dead" Gah!!!!! After my tanty I called Wayne to let him know what had happened... He came round and erm.. Managed to kick my bike over which is normally fairly easy for me to start... at this stage I had no light on the display to let me know if I was in nuetral etc etc..

Sweet we're on our way... Got my gear on.. Got to the bottom of my driveway, by this time my bike had cut out... Managed to get it going again and off we went...

Just as we turned off onto the Bays Road I Noticed my indicators weren't working... Fantastic!!!!!!! Kept riding... The lights on the display started to show but barely.. You'd have to really squint to actually see it..

Got my bike back to my partners place safely..

He's pulled the battery out and checked that it was ok... It was lacking water, all cells were low and one was very low.. Its been topped up, and put on the charger over night.. Put it back in the bike this morning.. Turned the key.. No lights on the display... Kicking the bike over... Wallah!!!!!!!! Bright green light to say its in nuetral.. Headlights.. Yup.. Thats great!!!

Indicators..................... Mmm seem they are stuck on the no blinky thing... Noticed at this stage the headlight had started flickering.. Light on the display started to go low.. Turned the throttle... Everything starts lighting up and going bright again with no flickering...:shutup:

We're gonna check tonight to make sure the batteries holding its charge to completely iliminate that problem.. Specially since the battery had lack of water in it..

CBobR mentioned it could be wiring.. I'll be honest that the bike was out in the recent heavy rain that we had.. So I've been told to give it time to dry out incase theres water in any of the connections..

It just doesn't seem like the bikes getting a regular flow of electricity... Best way I can expain...

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated before I push my bike off our retaining wall... :(

[MSTRS]

I'd say that the battery is one step removed from being toast...BUT...the magneto/generator/alternator thingy is also in a sad state. Get it checked for voltage output.
See, the thing is, the battery is only a storage device and the volts have gotta come from somewhere to start with.

[What?]

Assuming the battery is OK, check the earth strap - that's the big cable from the (-) end of the battery - to where it attaches to the frame. It might be loose. If that's cool, check the wiring from the (+) battery terminal to the ignition switch for loose connectors or broken wires. Also check that the main fuse is not loose in it's contacts.
If no problems found, the next step is to by-pass the ignition switch and see if that helps matters (and check the pins on the bottom of the ignition switch as these sometimes get pulled loose as a result of a the wiring loom being too short to cater for full steering lock)
I suspect that you will find the problem somewhere in those 3 bits - if not, take it to a shop. As MSTRS says, the reg/rec could be stuffed which has, in turn, stuffed the battery.

[MSTRS]

Just got told that Chickadee's RG runs perfectly with no battery at all, and has done for ages. Seems to me that the (alternator?) responsible for creating the lecky is faulty

[Coyote]

MAKE SURE you have a fuse above the battery and that it isn't broken. I ran my RG without a fuse there (as I didn't know better) and I blew the regulator and CDI. I was lucky enough that there was a CDI and regulator from the one seller on trademe. Got both for $100 after Wellington Motorcycles said it'd cost $760 for a new CDI alone

[Coyote]

Just got told that Chickadee's RG runs perfectly with no battery at all, and has done for ages. Seems to me that the (alternator?) responsible for creating the lecky is faulty
Let this be a warning:

A wee bit of theory :

A bike alternator , in the absence of anything else , will produce some very high voltages . 20 to 30 volts typically.

We only want about 13 and a bit to run things and charge the battery.

Normally the alternator current (after being turned into DC) is fed to the battery. The battery is a big "sink" that "absorbs" the current. To make sure that the battery doesn't get over charged, there is a voltage regulator. This "shunts off" any voltage once the battery is fully charged.

When you run without the battery , all the alternator current is directly fed through to the regulator. Do that for too long , and the regulator gives up the unequal struggle and dies. Now, the whole 30 odd volts is fed into the bikes electrical system. The CDI unit (and other stuff) that is designed to run at 12 volts is suddenly getting hit with 30 volts. So after a bit, it too dies.The DCI unit will usually be the first to go, since it is full of transistors and other delicate whizzy stuff. No CDI unit, no spark. Or feak and weeble ones. Bike, him no go.

(Purists will note that I've simplifed things abit. It's a bit more complex, but that's the general idea)
This is what happened to me

[crashe]

Hmmmmm ...
Bike wouldnt start... SNAP.
Jump start it and then it runs fine... SNAP.
Bike won't start... SNAP.
Check battery and the water levels.... OOPSIE.
No water or very little water in the battery... SNAP.
Add more distilled water to the battery... SNAP.
Bike runs well... SNAP.
Bike wont start... SNAP.
Buy new battery....... bike works wonderfully again.

If the water gets too low in the battery you are farking up the battery cells.
Well thats what I got told.

Cost me a new battery and charging it for 16 to 20 hours (cheers inlinefour for the battery charger).
Added in the acid myself, as I brought it home on the back of the bike... in the backpack. The shop didnt want me to have a accident and end up spilling the acid every where. Easy as to put in the acid.


Memo to oneself *check the battery level every month* not like once in 4 years.

[HenryDorsetCase]

the battery seems to be the culprit for my bike not starting also. Its one of those sealed jobs and looks very new indeed. the lesson for me was just cos it looks new and shiny doesnt mean its working well. Wonder if we can get a buy one get one free deal on batteries anywhere.

[cowpoos]

my 2c....sounds nothing like a battrey playing up....sounds like a lose earth conection or another connection of sorts...

[NotaGoth]

I'd say that the battery is one step removed from being toast...BUT...the magneto/generator/alternator thingy is also in a sad state. Get it checked for voltage output.
See, the thing is, the battery is only a storage device and the volts have gotta come from somewhere to start with.

Got a call from my partner about an hour ago... A guy he works with is into bikes and apparently used to ride with my old man back in the day..

Gonna ride out there tomorrow so the sparky can check the battery and the voltage output...

We did start to wonder if it was to do with the alternator/regulator.. Only based on what a car of Dans did when the alternator crapped out... Similar thing with the lights, display etc etc..

[NotaGoth]

Assuming the battery is OK, check the earth strap - that's the big cable from the (-) end of the battery - to where it attaches to the frame. It might be loose. If that's cool, check the wiring from the (+) battery terminal to the ignition switch for loose connectors or broken wires. Also check that the main fuse is not loose in it's contacts.
If no problems found, the next step is to by-pass the ignition switch and see if that helps matters (and check the pins on the bottom of the ignition switch as these sometimes get pulled loose as a result of a the wiring loom being too short to cater for full steering lock)
I suspect that you will find the problem somewhere in those 3 bits - if not, take it to a shop. As MSTRS says, the reg/rec could be stuffed which has, in turn, stuffed the battery.


First thing we did when we popped the seat off was check for any loose or broken wires.. Will have a good look again this afternoon incase there is something that we may have missed...

Fuse isn't loose in its contacts..

By pass the ignition switch and check the pins... Ok something we haven't yet been told to check.. Will do that also this afternoon and see what we come up with..

Trying to avoid the shop just incase its something simple... If we can't find anything thats definately where its going.. ;)

[NotaGoth]

MAKE SURE you have a fuse above the battery and that it isn't broken. I ran my RG without a fuse there (as I didn't know better) and I blew the regulator and CDI. I was lucky enough that there was a CDI and regulator from the one seller on trademe. Got both for $100 after Wellington Motorcycles said it'd cost $760 for a new CDI alone


Fuse looks in good form.. :mellow:

[NotaGoth]

Let this be a warning:

This is what happened to me

So if the bikes running sparky would be able to pick up on wether there is to higher voltage output...? Which if so would mean that this is whats going on..?

This in turn if its a possibility it may not be a good idea to ride it all the way there to be checked..?

[Paul in NZ]

Before you do any electrical diagnosis....... On anything.... You MUST start with a battery that you know is 100% up to the job!

A simple battery charger and a cheap hydrometer is a great investment (get a little hydrometer the car ones need too much fluid to work)

Cheers

[NotaGoth]

Before you do any electrical diagnosis....... On anything.... You MUST start with a battery that you know is 100% up to the job!

A simple battery charger and a cheap hydrometer is a great investment (get a little hydrometer the car ones need too much fluid to work)

Cheers


I did hit the books last night and it did state anything electrical start with the battery first.. Have charged it but don't have a hydrometer to check it with and I can't get into town as I have no transport.. Will definately invest in one though..

We did wonder if the batteries poked... Mums done the same thing... Forgot to add water.. had to be replaced cause it wouldn't hold its charge anymore..

EDIT:

I had been for a ride earlier in the day.. When the battery was put on the charger it was low.. Sign its not holding its charge?

[Paul in NZ]

We did wonder if the batteries poked... Mums done the same thing... Forgot to add water.. had to be replaced cause it wouldn't hold its charge anymore..

EDIT:

I had been for a ride earlier in the day.. When the battery was put on the charger it was low.. Sign its not holding its charge?

Yes and no.. (sadly)

The low fluid is a sign of neglect (easy to do) or overcharging - both will ruin the poor old thing. Assuming you can get to each cell, a hydrometer will tell you if the battery is shagged because the specific gravity of one cell won't come up or hold it's value after charging.

Cheers

[NotaGoth]

Yes and no.. (sadly)

The low fluid is a sign of neglect (easy to do) or overcharging - both will ruin the poor old thing. Assuming you can get to each cell, a hydrometer will tell you if the battery is shagged because the specific gravity of one cell won't come up or hold it's value after charging.

Cheers

I do realize if thats what is wrong that it is my own fault.. I've checked everything but that.. And I guess that you learn by mistakes that you make.. Once you make them you tend to not do them again..

Thanks again.. Will see if I can get hold of one otherwise I'll have to wait til tomorrow..

[Paul in NZ]

I do realize if thats what is wrong that it is my own fault.. I've checked everything but that.. And I guess that you learn by mistakes that you make.. Once you make them you tend to not do them again..

Thanks again.. Will see if I can get hold of one otherwise I'll have to wait til tomorrow..

Nearly ALL batteries get neglected - they live in the darkest dirtiest part of the bike and are a pain in the bum to get at. I know better but I still don't check mine regularly...

Jeeze it's a pain when they fail though! Don't stress, like any component they have a service life and they will need replacing at some point or other..

[NotaGoth]

Nearly ALL batteries get neglected - they live in the darkest dirtiest part of the bike and are a pain in the bum to get at. I know better but I still don't check mine regularly...

Jeeze it's a pain when they fail though! Don't stress, like any component they have a service life and they will need replacing at some point or other..


Ok Dan took the battery into the sparky at his work.. Ran some tests and apparently the battery is fine... :angry:

Wants me to take it to him on the weekend so he can check its earthed properly etc etc...

[King Nothing]

I have a similar problem at the mo... It started with the dash disply flickering and then dissapearing completly.. I found that the negative terminal was loose so I tightened it and it seemed to fix the problem.... however this was not so as when I went to take off the bike stalled before I got to the end of the driveway and I lost the ignition again... After checking all the other connections around the battery I discovered the main fuse was blown... I replaced it and it blew again... Thought it may be the alernator, so i disconnected it and replaced the fuse.... same result.. blown fuse... disconnected the battery.... kicked it over.... no blown fuse.... replaced battery... blew fuse.... checked earth connections from battery to body... now no spark from coil :( .... anyone have any ideas?

[NotaGoth]

Dan put the battery in just on dark the other day.. Reckons he turned the key and he thought he seen a spark.. turned it off.. Tried again seen nothing...


Was having a fiddle around last night and having a really good look while we had enough light left.. Bingo!!! Negative wire has a cut/break in it all the way through the wires and its only holding together because of one tiny little bit of plastic.. So now we might actually be getting somewhere...

Though we had someone tell us that the cut/break wouldn't affect running of the bike or electrics.. So now I'm even more confused.. We shall see tonight..

[cowpoos]

Dan put the battery in just on dark the other day.. Reckons he turned the key and he thought he seen a spark.. turned it off.. Tried again seen nothing...


Was having a fiddle around last night and having a really good look while we had enough light left.. Bingo!!! Negative wire has a cut/break in it all the way through the wires and its only holding together because of one tiny little bit of plastic.. So now we might actually be getting somewhere...

Though we had someone tell us that the cut/break wouldn't affect running of the bike or electrics.. So now I'm even more confused.. We shall see tonight..
didn't think it was the battry at all.....hope you get it sorted soon doll!!! :scooter:

[NotaGoth]

didn't think it was the battry at all.....hope you get it sorted soon doll!!! :scooter:

I hope so too... ;) Hopefully this is the only problem.. Have someone whos gonna check the whole bike over for me on Saturday... Which is really kind of them....

Then I can get back out there and continue being a snail and all... :shutup: Practice makes perfect... :D

thanks darl..

[NotaGoth]

Ok... Finally got my wire fixed.... Turned the key.. WOW!!!!! I have display lights... Ohhhh headlights too and indicators.. And they are all bright and work fantastic.. I even got the blink blink of my indicator back.. *huge grin*

Dan "did you start it"
Me "Umm.. no.."

Off Dan goes outside...

I think my girl has the flu cause all she did was cough.. And cough.. And cough some more :gob:

One problem sorted and another ones started...

Dan even tried crash starting my bike for me.. But nope.. I think she decided to retire..

Anyway I got his step dad out there.. And he just kept on kicking her over.. Soon as I started to smell the fuel I was paranoid that she'd been flooded..

After about 20 kicks she finally decided to start.. Much longer than the usual "2" of my pitiful girl kicks..


I txt Wayne to let him know what happened... Possibly fouled plugs because of the faulty wiring..? Gonna check that tonight as we didn't have enough light last night to look..

If anyone else has any ideas it would be appreciated.. :shutup:

[Paul in NZ]

Don't stress - the bad starting may just be a one off - put in a new spark plug and see what happens.

Congratulations on finding the electical fault. You did better than most would be able to do.

Paul N

[NotaGoth]

Don't stress - the bad starting may just be a one off - put in a new spark plug and see what happens.

Congratulations on finding the electical fault. You did better than most would be able to do.

Paul N


Ok thanks.. :)

Someone poked me in the rib and told me where to look! (I'm positive of it)

Owe Dan big time cause he fixed it..

Thanks for your help its so been appreciated..

*theresa*

[NotaGoth]

Okay..


Riding home from work tonight my headlight cut out on me coming into a sharp corner... Still havent checked my pants after that one...

Managed to make it home but lights decided to go bright, dim, bright dim all the way to our gate...


Hopped off to open gate.. She cut out on me.. Started it again..

Rode in.. Hopped off to shut and lock gate.. Died again.. Lights and all completely..

Tried kicking it over.. Nothing.. Again HARD to start.. Yet earlier it had started just fine...

anyway... Midst frustration some silly bitch managed to drop the bike (me) and in doing so the dumb cows completely snapped off the clutch lever..

So.. No lights no nothing yet again... And the frustration of pushing the bike up the driveway in the dark...

I don't even wanna look at the stupid thing at the moment.. I'm getting really frustrated..

Came in and collapsed on the lounge huffing and puffing.. Must say its a good workout considering I've been complaining of how unfit I am...

I suppose I'll give myself a few days to calm down before I go and even bother taking another look...

[Ixion]

I still think you have a broken wire. It may be significant that it cut out on a sharp corner. Carefully check the wiring loom where it goes round the steering head for damage, they can get caught between the steering stops.

The hard to start and lights going bright and dim is because all your electricty is coming direct from the alternator, the battery is no longer in circuit to smooth things out. Or, just possiby you have a dud reg/rec.. But my money's on a broken wire, possibly out of sight within the wiring loom.

[NotaGoth]

I still think you have a broken wire. It may be significant that it cut out on a sharp corner. Carefully check the wiring loom where it goes round the steering head for damage, they can get caught between the steering stops.

The hard to start and lights going bright and dim is because all your electricty is coming direct from the alternator, the battery is no longer in circuit to smooth things out. Or, just possiby you have a dud reg/rec.. But my money's on a broken wire, possibly out of sight within the wiring loom.

Found one... And its been fixed... Will take another look when I've calmed down... Got enough shit on my plate at the moment.. Saves me pushing it off into the mudflats..

[NotaGoth]

Alright took another look together.. With a bit of txt help from Gordie and some advice.. I think now I might be getting somewhere.. Thanks Gordie, your help today was appreciated..

I took another look at the fuse and at how its sitting in the little metal bit thats holding it.. Found it strange that the wires where its crimped into the little metal thing that holds the fuse weren't actually touching the ends of the fuse on either side... txt Gordie and let him know.. he told me there was meant to be a spring in there...

"Use the spring out of a pen" *cough* so yes I did exactly that... After stabbing myself a fair few times with the end of the spring.. And a bit of blood later its finally sitting in there nicely and touching properly...

Bike started.. Didn't cut out.. Started it just before to check what my lights were doing in the dark.. No flickering.. Throttle.. No dimming of the lights..

Looked at a diagram in a bike book of mums, between the wire and the fuse theres a spring.. cept on my bike there was definately no spring on either end and the ends of the wires aren't touching on either end of the fuse...

Originally I thought the metal thingy thats holding it would connect it properly..? (is learning)

So anywho.. Quick job of that... Proper job tomorrow..

the wire running from the battery to the fuse is really really short so I was thinking about replacing that.. Was just wondering what issues I could have in doing that or if its just plain and simple so long as its the same type of wire... you know how you have your different thicknesses colours etc etc.. recrimping and soldering where needed and fitting some bits of spring in properly instead of my half pie job I did today..

So a few question...

Where I will be recrimping the wires and soldering so I can get a proper contact for my fuse should I still cover that particular bit in heat shrink to seal it properly or would just the solder be fine..?

Also I was gonna replace the little metal thingys that hold the fuse because the ends are open and the spring originally kept popping out and just about stabbing me in the eye.. Good or bad idea..? Or is there a particular "way" you go about it so it doesn't do that to you.. (bit difficult cause its open ended)

Any other advice is appreciated..

[What?]

What sort of fuse holder is it? If it is a glass-cased fuse that sits inside a plastic tube, just go and buy a whole new holder - they come with wire hanging out each end, and are as cheap as chips.
If you need to join wires, then soldering together and cover with heat-shrink tube is the best, but crimped bullet connectors are fine.

[NotaGoth]

What sort of fuse holder is it? If it is a glass-cased fuse that sits inside a plastic tube, just go and buy a whole new holder - they come with wire hanging out each end, and are as cheap as chips.
If you need to join wires, then soldering together and cover with heat-shrink tube is the best, but crimped bullet connectors are fine.


The fuse is a glass one with the little metal ends, each end sits in a little metal thing, that the wire is crimped into. This then sits inside a plastic tube that clips shut. Hope that helps, I'm too new to this.

I did think about just buying a new fuse holder, which I might do specially if the wires are already hanging out each end.. Makes life a bit easier

[Ixion]

I'd buy a new holder. From Supercheap or Repco. A couple of bucks. And they have a wire at each end , and all the tricky fuse connector and spring stuff is already done.

An interesting commentary on the difficulties of troubleshooting over the 'net. The problem would have been immediately obvious to an experienced person who SAW it "Hey, where's the liddle spring gorn ?" ). But noone over the 'net would cry out "Hey I bet the liddle spring is missing from the fuse holder doohickey". The problem is that the person reporting the fault often does not report something missing/broken etc, simply because they don't know it is supposed to be there.

(Incidentally not all fuse holders have a liddle spring. Just to complicate things. Sigh)

[NotaGoth]

I'd buy a new holder. From Supercheap or Repco. A couple of bucks. And they have a wire at each end , and all the tricky fuse connector and spring stuff is already done.

An interesting commentary on the difficulties of troubleshooting over the 'net. The problem would have been immediately obvious to an experienced person who SAW it "Hey, where's the liddle spring gorn ?" ). But noone over the 'net would cry out "Hey I bet the liddle spring is missing from the fuse holder doohickey". The problem is that the person reporting the fault often does not report something missing/broken etc, simply because they don't know it is supposed to be there.

(Incidentally not all fuse holders have a liddle spring. Just to complicate things. Sigh)

How would I know wether its meant to have a spring or not?

I do realize because of my lack of experience that it makes things harder, I DO NOT notice what someone else may have by now. I realized that from day one. But its all a learning curve, and at the end of the day I will know what to look for in future. We all have to start somewhere don't we? and I find little bits of advice here and there are helpful because I don't end up being left feeling thick as shit when I go out there and just stare blankly at my bike.

I'm willing to learn, and at the end of the day I would like to know how to work on my own bike. If I wasn't keen I woulda just taken it to the shop

[Ixion]

I did not mean to sound critical. Merely observing, that as you did not know that there SHOULD be a spring, you obviously would not report that it was missing.

Unfortunately there is no way to know whether there should be one or not. Some have them. Some do not . Sigh . Why can't they all be the same. You must approach it on the basis of "Hm. Sometimes these things have a liddle spring. This one doesn't have one. Should it, I wonder? Does it make sense without it ? ". As indeed, you did.

This is a fairly general aspect of diagnosis. "Does the way this is all arranged make SENSE" ? Is there something broken. or missing? Things do fall off bikes. And sometimes when things break, the broken bits will fall off or go and hide in dark corners. Sometimes it is hard to tell that the missing bit should ever have been there (as in the case of your spring. There was nothing to show that it ought to have been there. Just that , as you observed, the arrangment didn't make SENSE)

[mstriumph]

...............
Was having a fiddle around last night and having a really good look while we had enough light left.. Bingo!!! Negative wire has a cut/break in it all the way through the wires and its only holding together because of one tiny little bit of plastic.. So now we might actually be getting somewhere...

Though we had someone tell us that the cut/break wouldn't affect running of the bike or electrics.. So now I'm even more confused.. We shall see tonight..

same same the cb350cc honda --- she's had an obscure electrical fault that's been niggling for over 20 years ...... it's so intermittent that it's really difficult to track - and, unlike yours, the fix is so easy that it doesn't seem worth the bother
i've assumed it's gotta be wiring cause i bounce up and down on the seat a coupla times and it comes right .......:mellow:

yeah - i know - soooooooooooooo scientific - but hell, it WORKS FOR ME!:innocent:

[NotaGoth]

I did not mean to sound critical. Merely observing, that as you did not know that there SHOULD be a spring, you obviously would not report that it was missing.

Unfortunately there is no way to know whether there should be one or not. Some have them. Some do not . Sigh . Why can't they all be the same. You must approach it on the basis of "Hm. Sometimes these things have a liddle spring. This one doesn't have one. Should it, I wonder? Does it make sense without it ? ". As indeed, you did.

This is a fairly general aspect of diagnosis. "Does the way this is all arranged make SENSE" ? Is there something broken. or missing? Things do fall off bikes. And sometimes when things break, the broken bits will fall off or go and hide in dark corners. Sometimes it is hard to tell that the missing bit should ever have been there (as in the case of your spring. There was nothing to show that it ought to have been there. Just that , as you observed, the arrangment didn't make SENSE)


Well just like my poke in the rib and pointing me toward the break in the wire. I was looking at the fuse and to me something didn't look right. Its gappy, I'd have thought that without the spring the the wires should be touching each end of the fuse, otherwise if you dont need that connnected why would you stick a spring in there in the first place?

Either way, my bikes not running right as we've found out.. Things got a bit better after the broken wire repair.. And after doing a make do job with the fuse shes starting better. But I won't know how its running til after I repair my broken clutch lever, and then I can actually take it for a ride to see what its doing.

I'll just get a new fuse holder, put it in, if shes still running like crap least I know I tried. (unless doing that would do more damage than good if its wrong)
Only way I could get more understanding is if I seen a fuse minus the springs so that I could compaire how they look.

*is trying google*

[Virago]

Just a tip - some of the cheaper "bayonet" type in-line fuse holders (the ones that clip together like a light bulb in socket) can have short life expectancy, especially when sujected to vibration. I've found that the screw-together type are more reliable.

[NotaGoth]

Friend that used to ride with my old man told me to replace my fuse anyway... Did that..

Went for a ride with CBobR and had no problems with my indicators etc etc.. :sunny:

[moT]

Try turning on ur kill switch

[NotaGoth]

Try turning on ur kill switch

As mentioned before, its not the kill switch..