What 3rd world country threw away their trains

[Eddieb]

Before Wellington got hold of them?

Took the train to work this morning as usual, however I was running a few minutes late so got a later train than usual.

I was amazed at the state of the carriages on this run, if there were a road going vehicle they certainly wouldn't get a warrant.

The carriage in front of mine had quite a few holes larger than a modern 50c piece just in the end of the carriage I could see. When I got out in town and looked at my carriage the front lights were only just still attached, and only by a slim strip of rust along the bottom and one side of their mounting plate. The other side and top edges were completely rusted through.

The seating inside was so bad people were having to hold on to the walls and opposite seats to stop being flung into the corridor, it was boucing around so much you actually left the seat.

Another great example of the GOVT selling off an enterprise for it to be run into the ground by private owners.

Wellington's train system is under stress due to increasing usage over the past few years without the correspending investment in rolling stock to keep abreast with that. Recent media reports indicate it could be 3 years before any more rolling stock is introduced, and even that is just to take old carriages off the scrap heap, supposedly refurbish them and re introduce them onto the tracks.

I think this morning carriages are well over due going onto the scrap heap. If they are a sample of whats still being used I'm not looking forward to seeing what they resurrect off the heap.

[Coyote]

All this while a huge convoy of cars with a single person in each flood in and out of the city each day

[pete376403]

The old English Electric cars date from the 1950s, way past their use-by.

However as you say, perfect example of "private enterprise efficiencies" - run them into the ground then threaten the government with stopping their use unless given more handouts

Richard Prebble, Labours Minister for SOE (Selling Off Everything) later went on to help form ACT because Labour wasn't moving fast enough toward the private enterprise model. I wonder if he still feels, with the benefit of hindsight, that it was the best thing to do. (Likewise, Max Bradford and electricity production)

[Finn]

I know that our Auckland cho cho's were purchased from an Australian museum.

[Mr Merde]

I know that our Auckland cho cho's were purchased from an Australian museum.


All they are missing is the cow catchers at the front of the engine and possibly a little bit of mechanical reliability.

[Squeak the Rat]

Is wellington rail electrified or still runing on diesel like auckland? As per finns comment, aucklands trains were dug out of a fossill pit, because parts for diesel trains aren't being manufactured any more.

In fact when the much hyped britomart was being built it was the only non-electric train station being built in the world at the time.

But don't worry, in half a century we can all look back and say bloody hell, they were talking about how crap the infrastructure was in 2007 and still nothings changed......

[Swoop]

I work next to an Auckland train enthusiast...

The Ak trains came from Perth. Aparently Perth is rather flat...
Hence the reasons that the trains struggle when they get to a small hill (then catch on fire)!

[skelstar]

The ones on the Hutt or Paraparaumu lines are from Hungary. They used to be called the 'Hungarians' I think. Dunno about the J'Ville ones. WWII vintage I reckon.

[Blackbird]

Oh wonderful! Hope they're reliable. I'm flying down to Wellington a week on Friday then catching the train up to Paremata to pick up my Blackbird.:shutup:

[Hitcher]

Yes, Wellington has antiquated State-of-the-ark commuter rail. But the times they are a changing: New Wairarapa carriages start arriving in a month's time, with significant station upgrades on that line; double-tracking to the Waikanae overbridge and electrification to Waikanae by 2010; more park-and-ride facilities being constructed as space, facilities and consents allow; new locomotives in seven years... The list goes on. To quote Rachel Hunter "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen!"

[bungbung]

They borrowed some of the 1938 Cyclops design units from Ferrymead to make up numbers during peak time. Some of the 1946 versions are pretty rusty now.

[et al]

Oh wonderful! Hope they're reliable. I'm flying down to Wellington a week on Friday then catching the train up to Paremata to pick up my Blackbird.:shutup:
Don't worry - the ones they use on that line are usually the more modern and reliable ones, but even so they are 60's vintage I think but comparitively luxurious compared to those old English Electric units that the Plebs from Jville and the Hutt have to use.

[SPman]

I know that our Auckland cho cho's were purchased from an Australian museum.Hey - from our museum - we've got nice new electrics what can rattle along at 120kph......from Subiaco to Midland, 20 km through the traffic on up to 70kph roads, the trains are faster than the bike, and that includes the 1k walk to the station.
I thought the Wellington electrics were new in the early '80s.

[Motu]

I thought the Wellington trains were pretty flash when I was there in the '80's - Auckland didn't have commuter trains,passengers went in the freight wagons.

[Madness]

All the long distance services use vehicles originally built in the 1930s, albeit refurbished, but with no alterations to suit modern requirements for access. The TMW trains are also old, and some do not provide for appropriate access by today’s standards. Fifteen cars, used to and from the Wairarapa, are the same vintage as the long distance cars. A further 9 two-car sets and 6 3-car sets remain from the original English Electric electric multiple unit (“EMU”) fleet built in the early 1950s (to a 1930s design). These are used on the Johnsonville line, and on peak services in the Hutt Valley. Forty-four two-car EMUs built by Ganz Mavag in the early 1980s form the bulk of the fleet. A set of eight British carriages was refurbished in the mid-1990s for the Capital Connection train to and from Palmerston North.

I remember being knee high to a grasshopper when the "new" Ganz-Mavag units tuned up on the Hutt Valley line, oooh err they were flash back then.

[scracha]

I thought the Wellington trains were pretty flash when I was there in the '80's - Auckland didn't have commuter trains,passengers went in the freight wagons.

This is a joke right?

[terbang]

As I bump over an abused SH 1, I am trying to negotiate my way through long ques created by trucks, many of them pouring slippery and stinking animal shit all over the road, and I wonder: This country had a rail service, still has the tracks and basic equipment that is now owned and used by an overseas operator. Rail technology in other parts of the world is being developed to a degree that will even challenge aviation, yet we pay a fortune every year on road repair and modifications to reduce congestion, while the local rail tracks are rusting. Why..?

[Motu]

This is a joke right?

Are there any Auckland train commuters here to confirm or deny?

I rest my case.

[Lias]

The newer wellington cars arent too bad (the ones where the seats look like multicolour puke), but I remember reading in the paper not long ago that all the new carriages they've ordered are going to take years to arrive, and they dug all the realllly old ones out of retirement for peak time trains.

Welly still has the commuter train service (and in my experience bus service too) in the country, even if it is struggling under the dual headaches of lack of investment and hugely increasing demand.

[scracha]

Couldn't NZ apply to become an Australian state again?

[Hitcher]

Sigh. There is a difference (for those not weaned on Thomas The Tank Engine) between trains and carriages. A bit like carts and horses (for those weaned on Thomas Hardy). There is still a delay associated with new carriages, although the first of those destined for the Wairarapa line start from mid May (all things going well with the shake-down testing at Dunedin).

The delay for trains is about seven years as, again, they have to be made to measure, not only because of New Zealand's rail gauge (same as South Africa and Japan) but also other physical considerations, such as platform clearances, tunnel widths & heights, radius of curvature on the tracks, etc. Train manufacturers generally build in about 700-unit lots, so an order of 70 from Wellington tends to slide down the batting order somewhat.

[Guido]

At least the Wellingbum trains arrive at their destinations. West Auckland trains would be an hour late for their own funeral!!!!!!!:scooter:
Then think about the car parks we have in place of motorways, oh, but dont forget that lane splitting on a motorcycle is an offence and the Traffic Nazi's WILL chase you!:done:

[Ixion]

I remember going down from Auckland to Wellington as a lad, down on the Night Limited, back on the Express.

A fast trip, especially the Express. He was cranking along like Billy-oh on some sections, dunno how fast I was too young to estimate, but maybe 70,80mph, far faster than any car or bike could have gone for such a distance (and through the dreaded pumice too). And very comfortable, all leatherette and wood and cast iron. Guards in uniforms, steam heating, pillows an blankets for hire.Dining cars and smoking cars, sleepers for the rich.

And the railways stations - oh they were so exciting. Huge dining rooms,2/6 for a bangup meal, crowds hustling here and there, trains arriving and departing with great clouds of smoke and steam and clanks and bangs. Everything marble and tile and polished wood. Wonderful places.

Everybody went by train, they were reliable, fast, comfortable,only a masochist would have gone by car, let alone motorcycle.

Sigh. Where did it all go wrong.

[merv]

I ride the trains every working day in Wellington and luckily on our line we only have the "new" 1982 model Ganz Mavag units and the service to and from Porirua is great. However, I'd love air conditioned sealed window trains to stop all the women that open the windows on cold days (what's with them always feeling hot?) and all those that slam them shut as we go into the tunnels.

This reckons we'll have new trains by 2010 http://gw.govt.nz/story18878.cfm - I'm hoping I'll be retired by then.

I would have liked trains like this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=47498

[Ixion]

I ride the trains every working day in Wellington,,stop all the women that open the windows on cold days (what's with them always feeling hot?),,

Feck. You ride a train every day filled with permanently hot women? Where do I buy a ticket for this seraglio on rails?

[Madness]

I made the mistake of jumping into the smoking carriage on the Wairarapa Line when I was commuting 10 years ago. A smoker myself, I nearly threw up a few times, it was disgusting. Hard to imagine that sort of thing now, not so long ago either.

[pete376403]

Backi in the 70s I would catch the Waiararapa train from Upper Hutt to Naenae - they had the old carriages that Ixion waxes lyrical about. One good thing about them was you could stand on the open platform at the end of the carriage and avoid all the smokers. Also it was a lot cheaper, even allowing for the inflation and so on - $5 for a ten trip ticket

[Hitcher]

Feck. You ride a train every day filled with permanently hot women? Where do I buy a ticket for this seraglio on rails?

Another one of Wellington's secrets broadcast to the world. At this rate Aucklanders will be moving here in droves. Or hordes. Time to put up the barricades at the border.

[NordieBoy]

oh, but dont forget that lane splitting on a motorcycle is an offence and the Traffic Nazi's WILL chase you!:done:

At least lane splitting on a train is allowed :D

[Swoop]

I made the mistake of jumping into the smoking carriage on the Wairarapa Line when I was commuting 10 years ago. A smoker myself, I nearly threw up a few times, it was disgusting.
I find it quite entertaining at the Auckland airport arrivals area. Under the escalator there is an enclosed glass room for those who wish to suck on a cancer stick. It appears a little like a goldfish bowl!
I have not fathomed why a person needs to smoke inside that room, since all the air appears heavily laced with nicotine. Just breathing would be enough to do the trick!

[MikeyG]

All this while a huge convoy of cars with a single person in each flood in and out of the city each day

EddieB's post is exactly why I drive or ride instead of taking the train. If they had decent rolling stock, ran frequently enough and were cheaper than driving I would take the train.

[Bass]

I remember going down from Auckland to Wellington as a lad, down on the Night Limited, back on the Express.



I did Invercargill to Blenheim a couple of times about 40 years ago. The leg to Chch was an overnight limited. I think that "limited" meant that it was limited to a maximum of 10 miles between stops.
On one of these trips, the loco's air brakes failed and we waited about an hour at Dunsandel while another loco was sent down from Chch. We only had about 5 carriages and now we had 2 locos (JA's - the largest hand fired loco in the world at the time) and were an hour late.
How that train stayed on the tracks between Dunsandel and Chch still escapes me - it was one wild ride!!!

[Bass]

Since we are reminiscing about training experiences, my father once told me a story (probably meaning significant BS content) about a ride he had from Burnham to Wigram.
Seems he was stationed at Wigram awaiting demob post WW2 and was on the turps down at Burnham army camp with 2 mates. Lost track of time and at about 10.30 pm realised that they had to be back on base by midnight or would be listed as AWOL.
PANIC!!
Jog over to railway station to explore options and discover one of the early railcars there with a mechanic from the Addington workshops, trying to get the thing to run right. Said mechanic is heading back to Addington and is happy to give a lift and drop them at Wigram.
So, 4 in the driving cab, no-one else on board and mechanic absolutely caning it as he is still trying some diesel de-bugging. Apparently the ride was really scary cos the track was far from even and the driving cab being in front of the wheels meant that it tended to overshoot the curves before tracking back.
After about 10 minutes of this, the mechanic leaves the driving seat and disappears back down the unit, leaving the other 3 crapping themselves and wondering what the hell was going on. After about 5 minutes the noise level increases significantly and the railcar gains another 10 mph !!!
Shortly afterwards the mechanic reappears with a smile and some comment about "thought we had a cylinder missing".
They were real pleased to get off at Wigram apparently.

[scracha]

I find it quite entertaining at the Auckland airport

I find it quite entertaining that people have to drive or take the bus to Auckland airport.

[Coyote]

EddieB's post is exactly why I drive or ride instead of taking the train. If they had decent rolling stock, ran frequently enough and were cheaper than driving I would take the train.
Yeah, I understand that and I wasn't really saying everyone is bad. I just don't understand why they can't put more effort and money into public transport to alleviate these problems and stop so many cars sitting in traffic puffing out shit.

No wait, I do. It's cause public transport is being run purely for profit

[Ixion]

Limited on NZR meant that it had a limited number of stops (few). Between the Express (no stops) and the Night Mail (stopped at every station).

And yeah, standing on the open platform between the carriages was real cool. Cos the couplings were just under your feet and as the train accelerated or braked they clanked and jerked like mad. So you could stand with one foot on either side of the platform (ie one foot on the platform of the fore carriage, and one foot one the platform of the hinder carriage) and get a real bucking bronco ride. Then you and some other kids (all the kids naturally gravitated to the platforms) could egg each other to do that standing on the railing around the platforms. Then some kid would dare someone to climb up onto the roof (I never saw anyone actually do it , but a few climbed some way up). At about that point the guard would usually catch y' and everybody would get a thick ear (y' could easily run away, cos of it being a train!). They packed a mean wallop those trains guards, too.

Kids nowdays have no fun at all.:bye:

[NordieBoy]

I find it quite entertaining at the Auckland airport arrivals area. Under the escalator there is an enclosed glass room for those who wish to suck on a cancer stick. It appears a little like a goldfish bowl!
I have not fathomed why a person needs to smoke inside that room, since all the air appears heavily laced with nicotine. Just breathing would be enough to do the trick!

That was weird in South Africa seeing those rooms in restaurants.

[ManDownUnder]

Who threw their trains out?

I believe the answer might be Auckland when they downgraded...