Why the Aussies and why not us?

[mynameis]

Not sure if this has been discussed here before or not, but we see so many auzzies in the international arena of racing bikes. Guys like Casey Stoner, Troy Bayliss and Troy Corser just to name a few.

Now I am not entirely well versed with racing history but there are no Kiwis in MotoGP and WSB at present, I am not sure of the past. I want to see some Kiwis on the podium and riding around with our flag celebrating. I don't know maybe Shaun Harris or Andrew Stroud or any other racers with such calibre and potential.

I do realise motor racing is a very small market here but I am sure the top guys here are capable of racing in MotoGP, WSB given exposure to the right type of development and resources and fine tuning they'd be on their way representing Kiwiland.

But why don't they get given a break/chance? Has anyone from NZ made an attempt to get up there, rub shoulders amongst the best in the world?

[White trash]

Could they really rub shoulders with MotoGP and WSB riders?

Our best are going to Aussie and while far from disgracing themselves, are hardly setting the world on fire. Where as those Kangaroo rooting sons of bitches come over here, and win our titles haveing never seen the tracks before.

But then, have you ever hard of a little short bastad caled Aaron Slight? How about Simon Crafar? Or Shaun Harris and Bruce Anstey? Dennis Ireland? Graeme Crosby..........the list is long and ditinguished.

[terbang]

19 mill Aussies Vs 4 mill Kiwis.. The Aussies are no more talented, there are just more of them and they have more money. Thats all it boils down to. Money.

[Pwalo]

Larger population, money and sponsorship. They're bloody good as well.

[bistard]

19 mill Aussies Vs 4 mill Kiwis.. The Aussies are no more talented, there are just more of them and they have more money. Thats all it boils down to. Money.

Yes,I agree,but the other major difference is the Aussies have better systems in place for youngsters coming through,you have a look at there Superbike class,they will have half dozen 17 or 18 year olds on near factory bikes,at the pointy end of the field
Currently we have Pete Jones down south with 150s doing a great job.but Aussie has 150 class,plus Morowaki 80cc class,250 production still
I think we (as road racers) need to get more youngsters involved,somehow
get them over from motocross early,there is no doubt we have the talent,Ben Townley,Josh Coppins etc
So the question is how & where are our next Aaron Slights & Simon Crafers coming from

[Big Dave]

The Aussies are no more talented,

:killingme ooops sorry.

If you play the 20mil v 4mil card then there should be 1 kiwi champ for every 4 or 5 aussies.
I've asked the same question of blokes like Steve Bernard and they can't answer it - other than 'the system'.
You blokes are doing much better off road. Don't know why that is either.

Maybe because your best tend to go to Rugby and not much else. Aus more diverse. Dunno.

[placidfemme]

Personally I feel the best way to get more kiwi's into the MotoGP scene and WSB etc is to have a track here large enough and up to standard that could be added to the WSB or MotoGP list... if they came to NZ and did high profile races with the likes of Rossi, Stoner, Hayden etc it will generate much higher public awareness and interest, therefore more sponsors for our local guys, more oppertunities etc...

Otherwise the best shot is to win in NZ, go over to Aussie and win there and build your way up...

[onearmedbandit]

:killingme ooops sorry.

If you play the 20mil v 4mil card then there should be 1 kiwi champ for every 4 or 5 aussies.
.

It's more to do with the size of the population in relation to sponsership money and advertising I think you'll find.

[SwanTiger]

Alright Alvin, I'll enter Moto GP / WSB and get a podium finish for you.

Can you lend me a few million first?

[onearmedbandit]

At least we've got a sense of humour. Actually no, the Aussies are much better at comedy then us. The ability to take the piss out of themselves, and not others, is the difference there.

[k14]

Its all to do with the $$$'s. Who has the best motogp and wsb rides are the guys that have the big money behind them. Some of them now don't need the big money to continue their career but they needed alot of money staked on them so the big teams with the good bikes capable of winning championships notice them.

Have a look at scott dixon, arguablly NZ's top current motorsport athlete. He had 4 or 5 wealthy businessmen get behind him at a young age and put together the approx $1million to buy him a seat in the champ car series. They bought shares in his company, when he eventually won the IRL only then was he able to pay them back (with interest of course) and buy them out.

Now that is what needs to happen for a kiwi kid to get out there on the world stage in wsbk or motogp and become the next aaron slight. We need 4 or 5 very rich and very enthuisatic kiwi businessmen to pick the right racer and go the whole hogg. You're not going to appeal to someone who is just in it for the financial benefits, its a very very high risk investment with nothing in the spectacular realms of a return on that investment even if it comes off perfectly to plan.

I think the place it needs to start is the grassroots. The nationals series needs to have a way way higher profile to start with and in the last 2 or 3 years I have seen it heading towards that way. We need to take a leaf out of the book of the equivalent 4 wheel series. The v8's, the toyota racing series etc have raised the profile of cage racing in NZ dramatically. Virtually every sunday I can sit down and watch anywhere between 1-3 hours of this on the box. With bike racing all there was was a couple of 30 min shows showing the superbikes and supersport. Not to mention the massive crowds they draw to the events, thousands of people at most of the rounds. I'd say bike racing is 3 or 4 years behind the cages, look at what happened earlier this year, a1gp to NZ. So there's something to think about. NZL doing very well at that series too, raising the profile of car racing in NZ and the same now needs to be done for bike racing.

Thats my 2c anyway.

[MisterD]

Do the Aussies have anyone at the top of the dirt-bike world? Josh Coppins and Ben Townley are doing the business in that area - perhaps our best riders just go that route?

[Storm]

Chad Reed in AMA Supercross, Various guys in enduro

[Big Dave]

It's more to do with the size of the population in relation to sponsership money and advertising I think you'll find.

Hmm - but then the $ are spread around a 4 X bigger pool of riders?

[Big Dave]

But then, have you ever hard of a little short bastad caled Aaron Slight? How about Simon Crafar? Or Shaun Harris and Bruce Anstey? Dennis Ireland? Graeme Crosby..........the list is long and ditinguished.

greats all - but lamentably short on world championships?

You'd think that conditions here and all the twisty roads would turn out a squadron of good steerers.

Kev Curtain - he's from newcastle, had a few after work beers in his muffler shop in toronto. The nearest decent set of corners in on the Putty rd - 75km away. Where's he learn to steer like he does i asked him.

'Dunno - just do.'

[MotoGirl]

I agree with you guys - it all comes down to money.

For New Zealand to succeed in motorsport, we need to focus on motorsport. Unfortunately, this country puts all its emphasis on bloody rugby and doesn't give the petrolheads a chance. Instead of encouraging motorsport, the media take every possible opportunity to show it in a negative light.

[White trash]

greats all - but lamentably short on world championships?

You'd think that conditions here and all the twisty roads would turn out a squadron of good steerers.

Kev Curtain - he's from newcastle, had a few after work beers in his muffler shop in toronto. The nearest decent set of corners in on the Putty rd - 75km away. Where's he learn to steer like he does i asked him.

'Dunno - just do.'
Ummmmm, Cros' didn't do so bad on the world stage.

Shaun and Bruce have both beaten the worlds best REAL road racers on REAL roads. Where'd they learn to steer? Taranaki? I think not. Wellington? Pfffft, only if you like motorways and traffic lights.

It's been a long time coming but I honestly think New Zealand has some great riders up and coming, who if given the right opportunities, will do this little country very proud again.

[White trash]

Instead of encouraging motorsport, the media take every possible opportunity to show it in a negative light.


Can you give us an example? I've never heard a single negative thing said in the media about kiwi motorsport.

[onearmedbandit]

Hmm - but then the $ are spread around a 4 X bigger pool of riders?

Look at the likes of America (I'm not sure about Australia) where contingency money is paid to a lot of riders at amateur level. I've heard that in some series, tyre companies pay for just using their tyres. I believe Australia would be a lot closer to America than NZ in the way racing is supported.

[Big Dave]

It's been a long time coming but I honestly think New Zealand has some great riders up and coming, who if given the right opportunities, will do this little country very proud again.

So who ya got?

[Big Dave]

Look at the likes of America

Ahhh - We kick their arse too.

Ponder me this
(corrections welcome)

Doohan 5
Bayliss 2
Corser 2
Gardner
Pitt
Vermuelen

A dozen champs the the top 3 grades in the last 15? years?
From a land with predominately straight roads.

[White trash]

So who ya got?
Sam Smith for one. Won the New Zealand TT on his VERY FIRST outing on a 600, then last year absolutley caned the rest of the 600 field including riders who have numerous national titles under their belts. Goes to Australia and consistantly runs in the top 10 in A-grade 600 Supersport, amongst one of the most competitive fields in the world.

Jay Lawrence. Gets on ANTHING and runs at the front. Obvously, his third place in the TT is noteable, espcially when you look at how uncompetitive his bike was. See him at the classics? Outstanding riding on a completely different style of bike from what he's used to.

But it's better! We've got three very young riders (including a young lady) finnishing extremely well in the Australian 150cc development series. Imagine where Jill Clendon would be now had she done the same!

New Zealand's a motorcycling country, my friend. We'll be at the top again soon!

[MotoGirl]

Can you give us an example? I've never heard a single negative thing said in the media about kiwi motorsport.

Whoops, I meant motorcycles! So that would make my point null and void.

Instead of saying motorsport is bad, the media do gloss over it. For example, when a Kiwi wins the motocross champs the news will give us a 10 second "In other motorsport news, Josh Coppins has won the blah blah blah champs, beating John Doe".

If an All Black even breaks a fingernail, the media are all over him and interview not only him, but his coach and neighbours too! God I hate rugby :angry:

My point is this: How can we encourage people to take up a sport when we don't show enough of it to grab their interest?

[onearmedbandit]

From a land with predominately straight roads.

So not only is it more financially rewarding, it's the only decent place to ride. Makes sense doesn't it.

[White trash]

Ahhh - We kick their arse too.

Ponder me this
(corrections welcome)

Doohan 5
Bayliss 2
Corser 2
Gardner
Pitt
Vermuelen

A dozen champs the the top 3 grades in the last 15? years?
From a land with predominately straight roads.
World Supersport is hardly one of the top three grades mate. (That'll go down like a cup of cold sick)

And young Mr Pitt (talented as he is, don't get me wrong) won his championship having never seen the top step of the podium.

Corser seems to have been gifted his in that both occasions he was riding a bike that was FAR superior to evryone elses.

Gardner really fought for his number 1 plate and thoroughly deserved the championship.

Mick Doohan is a freak of nature and the Lord Almighty couldn't have wrestled one of those trophys off him.

Bayliss also stands out as a man that worked harder than anyone else and simply wont take it lying down.

Vermuelen, we've yet to see his best I think and in my oppinion, he was riding the right bike at the right time.

[Hillbilly]

The real truth is that Aussie supports motorsport fully. Check out these two sites to get an idea of what I'm talking about:

Aussie Superbike School (http://www.superbikeschool.com.au/)

Circuit Breakers (http://www.circuitbreakers.com.au/index.php)

And that's just in NSW.

[sidecar bob]

Could they really rub shoulders with MotoGP and WSB riders?

Our best are going to Aussie and while far from disgracing themselves, are hardly setting the world on fire. Where as those Kangaroo rooting sons of bitches come over here, and win our titles haveing never seen the tracks before.

But then, have you ever hard of a little short bastad caled Aaron Slight? How about Simon Crafar? Or Shaun Harris and Bruce Anstey? Dennis Ireland? Graeme Crosby..........the list is long and ditinguished.

And the one who has beaten all of them at one time or another, always on lesser machinery, Robbie Dean, NZ's most under rated road racer.

[Big Dave]

World Supersport is hardly one of the top three grades mate. (That'll go down like a cup of cold sick)


Like I said - corrections welcome - And you know me - 3 laps watching any of 'em and I want to go for a ride somewhere myself rather than watch goobers go round in circles.

[Motu]

Can you give us an example? I've never heard a single negative thing said in the media about kiwi motorsport.

I know you couldn't care less,but people do other things on motorcycles than pull wheelstands y'know....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10433382

I can't find it,but the first story in this media stir up had a picture of the Pukekohe sidecar crash in the headline.They want an investigation into speedway accidents and injuries,then will come more restrictions etc.There was a poll and they were trying to stir up public opinion against speedway.

[MotoGirl]

They want an investigation into speedway accidents and injuries,then will come more restrictions etc.There was a poll and they were trying to stir up public opinion against speedway.

I get what you're saying. The media only makes a fuss about motorsport when things go wrong.

The media use these events to make a dig at the dangers of participating in motorsport. If you compare the the amount of good stuff we see versus the time they spend on negative publicity, the direction they are trying to sway the public is obvious.

Edit: This an interesting quote from some of the feedback of Motu's link:
"Taken over the past 10 - 15 years fewer motorsport competitors have been seriously hurt than rugby players."
I got this from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501154&objectid=10433408

[Squeak the Rat]

At least we got the pineapple lumps.


:yes:

[Big Dave]

At least we got the pineapple lumps.

And the blue birds are flying south early this spring.

Agent 13 - is that you?

[mynameis]

Ok just a summary of the sensible posts on here. I think "k14" has pretty much nailed it and others have thrown a good light on it! :)

It all boils down to the grassroots and the basics. If somehow mindset is changed towards motorcycling (that it's dangerous and bad) in general, greater interest will be generated. There will be more riders on the roads and on motorbikes. So racing will appeal to a wider group like we see thousands of kiwi kids playing soccer and rugby. Therefore more racers compared to numbers at present.

This in turn will lead to better "systems" in place to nurture upcoming kids and develop their talent to compete in racing. Sponsorship will increase and there would be larger spend on motorbike racing, because it will be the next hot thing as opposed to rugby. (Not that Kiwis are any good anyway-last world cup win 20 years ago)

Which will take a kiwi kid on the world map with the backing of big sponsors and perhaps becoming a better Arron Slight? Sounds about right? Good theory? Again it's a THEORY.

[bistard]

And the blue birds are flying south early this spring.

Agent 13 - is that you?

No its me,over here!!

[Big Dave]

No its me,over here!!

Dis is KAOS Schtarker - vee do not 'pssst over here' - over here!
Under schtood!

[bistard]

Dis is KAOS Schtarker - vee do not 'pssst over here' - over here!
Under schtood!

"listen to me very closely,As I will say this only once" Sorry,I must have been away the day,that was mentioned at training,I am only new here!!

[scrivy]

World Supersport is hardly one of the top three grades mate. (That'll go down like a cup of cold sick)

And young Mr Pitt (talented as he is, don't get me wrong) won his championship having never seen the top step of the podium.

Corser seems to have been gifted his in that both occasions he was riding a bike that was FAR superior to evryone elses.

Gardner really fought for his number 1 plate and thoroughly deserved the championship.

Mick Doohan is a freak of nature and the Lord Almighty couldn't have wrestled one of those trophys off him.

Bayliss also stands out as a man that worked harder than anyone else and simply wont take it lying down.

Vermuelen, we've yet to see his best I think and in my oppinion, he was riding the right bike at the right time.

Robbie Bugden too was on a superior machine to Stroud as evidenced on every back straight at our Nationals.