Wobbly tyres (Avon Storms)

[Bnonn]

K, so I got a new set of Avon Storm STs put on today (120/70-Z17 front 180/55-Z17 rear). I was expecting great things, but I also knew from reading a review here that some people have experienced a sort of wobble or wiggly feeling on them at low speed.

Well, count me among them. It feels as if the tires are heavier on one side than the other. It causes the bike to feel as if it is wiggling as you're riding along, and the effect becomes more noticeable the slower you go. The bike also seems to drift to the left if I take my hands off the bars. I tried it on a couple of different roads to be sure this wasn't caused by the camber, and while I can't be certain, I don't think it was. The wobble and drift ain't major—I don't think it is likely to affect handling. But it's disconcerting; and the fact that I don't know it won't affect handling is worrisome.

Does anyone know what causes this? Evidently it's a common issue with these tires. I got the Storms because they've received very good reviews in terms of wet handling, as well as longevity; and they were relatively cheap. I was hoping I wouldn't encounter this problem. Now I'm kinda wishing I'd stuck with what I know and got some Pirelli Diablo Corsas instead.

What should I do, in your collective view? Take them back and have some new ones fitted? Ignore it? Is it possibly just a wheel balancing issue that is easily solved? I got it done at Road and Sport in Hamilton, and they test rode the bike before they gave it back to me. I'd have thought they would have picked up on this...

[Kwaka14]

I had that with Azaro's when I first got them on the 12 and it was pretty unnerving for a little while however it dissapeared after about 1200ks, apparently it's to do with the tread pattern (varying spaces between the grooves) and as the rubber wears in a little bit it goes away, at least it definitely did with the Azaro's....

[Bnonn]

Cool. I thought, looking at the treads, that maybe that was what was going on. Since it doesn't seem to be having much effect on anything, I'll leave it and see if it diminishes after riding a bit. That way I have some advice for others if they get a similar problem (:

[DougieNZ]

I have just had a front fitted to my ST1300, and have found it to be excellent during the 500 odd k's i have done so far. I would say to persevere and report back.

Cheers

[vifferman]

Check the pressure. I dunno what Storms are like (yet...) but my Azaro Sport front doesn't like being at less than 38 psi, and prefers 40 (!) due to the soft carcase.

[Bnonn]

I was going to check the pressure on the way home. I've been putting 36/42 front/back in my old tires. I'll try 38/42 for the Storms (I ride two-up often anyway, so higher pressure is no problem as far as I'm concerned).

[Blackbird]

Take it back and insist that they either fix it by better balancing or change the front tyre completely. Dave Easey from KB had his Storms fitted at Cycletreads in Barrys Pt Rd and it was so bad that they actually had to change his front tyre which fixed it completely. Both Bykey Cop's (fitted by Kerry at Motohaus) and mine shimmied slightly but not enough to take them back before we did our trip south as there wasn't enough time and it was only minor. Road and Sport fitted mine too at the end of February so I suggest you print the report that I posted on KB and take it along to them so they know the problem is wider than just you. I've already sent my report to Dold to relay to Avon to get feedback. I'll mention your problem to my contact there. I do urge you to stay with the Storms though as they are a fantastic tyre.

PS, my presures are 42 psi front and rear

[Bnonn]

Thanks very much for the advice Blackbird. I will print out the report and give Road and Sport a call tomorrow, and book a time to have the tires looked at again over the weekend. If the shimmying isn't just caused by the tread, then I will definitely get the wheel rebalanced, and the tire(s) replaced if needbe. It seems odd that this would only affect Avon tires though. Surely poor balancing would cause shimmying on any tire? Yet I haven't heard of this problem other than with Avons.

[Blackbird]

No worries. I think there's a bit more to it than normal dynamic balance issues - might be caused by a variation in sidewall thickness or something like that as most of the shimmying is over a relatively narrow speed range. This could possibly suggest a harmonic at work which gets damped by increasing centrifugal force as you get faster. Hitcher didn't experience any problem on his FJR1300 so perhaps front/rear weight bias and rake/trail also has some impact on the severity of the fault. As I said though, they're still the best tyre I've ever had on the 'bird. Wet weather grip is simply awesome.

Stay in touch, I'm determined to get to the bottom of this with Avon!

Geoff

[Hitcher]

The Storms certainly lightened up the steering on my FJR, but I haven't experienced anything like "wobbling" as described above. I've done nearly 3,000km on mine now and love them to bits. Take this matter up with your tyre shop or Avon's New Zealand agent.

[Bnonn]

Blackbird: the research I have done so far suggests that you are right. Bikes will naturally shimmy at certain speeds for the exact reason you state; only, usually this effect is virtually unnoticeable (just like the low-amplitude swaying that they do). With the Avons, something is causing the effect to be amplified, and it seems entirely likely to me that it has something to do with the sidewall density.

I'll definitely stay in touch (:

[Blackbird]

Blackbird: the research I have done so far suggests that you are right. Bikes will naturally shimmy at certain speeds for the exact reason you state; only, usually this effect is virtually unnoticeable (just like the low-amplitude swaying that they do). With the Avons, something is causing the effect to be amplified, and it seems entirely likely to me that it has something to do with the sidewall density.

I'll definitely stay in touch (:

I emailed Avon in the UK last night and got an immediate response (see below). Will keep you posted.

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the feedback, we put a lot of time and effort into these tyres. I read the forum and realise information gets spread very quickly. Bad news still travels quicker than good!

I will investigate this shimmy issue.

Best regards,

Peter J McNally

M/C Technical Product Manager

[Bnonn]

Cool. Be interesting to hear what he says. I was going to go into R&S today, but I'm sick, so sucks to that.

[thehollowmen]

On the V-strom forums people were talking about this. Check your orientation arrow on the front tyre because apparently they get put on backwards an awful lot.

[Blackbird]

On the V-strom forums people were talking about this. Check your orientation arrow on the front tyre because apparently they get put on backwards an awful lot.

Not on ours they didn't, but thanks for the thought. I'm an engineer (a sad bastard) and tend to be anal about checking the basics:yes:

[Bnonn]

Hi everyone. An update on my Storms issue.

I returned the bike to Road and Sport today, and they rebalanced the wheels for me at no cost. At my suggestion, they also re-aligned the front and rear wheels (also at no cost), since I had a sneaking suspicion that this, rather than a balancing issue, could be behind my wobble, due to the way the bike tracked left all the time when left to its own devices.

Having had this done, I went for a bit of a mozy, paying particular attention to low-speed coasting and deceleration where the wobble was most noticeable and turned into a minor headshake. The problem seems to be mostly gone, but there is still a very slight shimmy, and it still tracks left. My conclusion at this point is that the geometry of my bike simply produces this naturally, and it will be either magnified or dampened by certain types of tires. The Storms are obviously a tire which, for whatever reason, have a tendency to slightly magnify (or possibly cause) a shimmy, which is a trade-off I'm willing to make against their excellent sticking power, since the wobble is virtually unnoticeable now anyway, and doesn't affect handling in any way that I can discern.

That said, I hope that Avon will take this issue into consideration in developing the Storm+1, since this is evidently an issue which has caused quite a few people grief, and is amplified into an unnerving problem given even a slightly poor wheel balancing and/or alignment. For my own part, I'm not going to go to the extreme of getting another pair of Storms fitted. I'll keep an eye on the problem, and report back if it gets better or worse. I am expecting that, consistent with the experience of others, it will diminish as the tires wear in.

[Blackbird]

Well done and pleased you've got a satisfactory result. It sounds like you are now in a similar position to me. I'll let you know when/if I hear from Avon.

Geoff

[Big Dave]

I'll let you know when/if I hear from Avon.

Geoff

Oh no, Avon calling.

[Squeak the Rat]

Hello is there a problem?

[imdying]

Hello is there a problem?

Now you're showing your age!

[shadyfarmer]

i just put an avon storm on the front of my triumph speedmaster,,if you let the handle bars go at 70--80ks it wobbles so much you have to take hold again ,,it never did this before tyre change has anyone had this problem with these tyres ,we have double check wheel balance and it is perfect any theories on this problem

[riffer]

Interesting. I've got a Viper Sport on the front and a Storm on the rear of the RF.

I have nothing but good to say about these tyres. Compared to them, the Metzeler Roadtec Z6s I had were rubbish, and I loved them.

I can pitch the bike into a corner and take my hands completely off the bars and it tracks perfectly.

Mind you, I was very fussy about wheel balancing when I got them put on, and I am equally fussy about tyre pressures. I find that they tend to lose pressure a bit on the cold mornings, and hate being too low as they tend to wallow a bit.

I also redid my steering head bearings just before I put the tyres on, which may have made a big difference too.

Check your steering head bearings might be a good idea. And then tyre pressures and wheel balance.

[shadyfarmer]

just got tyre changed to another brand new avon storm ,and it still wobbles but not as bad as before,,just got new warrant all bearings checked and bike shop checked balance is it just these tyres or what

[Blackbird]

just got tyre changed to another brand new avon storm ,and it still wobbles but not as bad as before,,just got new warrant all bearings checked and bike shop checked balance is it just these tyres or what

I understand that as a result of all the feedback from NZ, Avon have changed their production process slightly to improve quality control. Although I have only heard from the agent, the root cause was apparently variability in the thickness (and hence mass) of the bead which sits inside the wheel rim. This makes sense as it would produce lateral forces and the resultant shimmy. You may have a set of tyres from the original shipment to NZ where there were obvious problems.

I've now covered nearly 6000 km on my Storms and the front still shimmies at town speeds, but not badly enough for me to do anything about it. They are still the best all-round tyres I've ever had on the 'bird and they will probably last another 2000 km before replacement, but that's the effect of torque and the Coromandel coast road rough chip for you!

[shadyfarmer]

I understand that as a result of all the feedback from NZ, Avon have changed their production process slightly to improve quality control. Although I have only heard from the agent, the root cause was apparently variability in the thickness (and hence mass) of the bead which sits inside the wheel rim. This makes sense as it would produce lateral forces and the resultant shimmy. You may have a set of tyres from the original shipment to NZ where there were obvious problems.

I've now covered nearly 6000 km on my Storms and the front still shimmies at town speeds, but not badly enough for me to do anything about it. They are still the best all-round tyres I've ever had on the 'bird and they will probably last another 2000 km before replacement, but that's the effect of torque and the Coromandel coast road rough chip for you!
in other words i should tkae this one back too

[crazybigal]

i have a z6 on the front and a storm on the rear of my blackbird, perfect!
I do think that the z6 rear had more cold grip than the storm, ill be watching to see how many k's i get out of the storm, i go through a rear every 8000k and a front prob 20,000k hence the mismatch, just didnt want to change my near new front to match the storm and i realy wanted the storms.



Interesting. I've got a Viper Sport on the front and a Storm on the rear of the RF.

I have nothing but good to say about these tyres. Compared to them, the Metzeler Roadtec Z6s I had were rubbish, and I loved them.

I can pitch the bike into a corner and take my hands completely off the bars and it tracks perfectly.

Mind you, I was very fussy about wheel balancing when I got them put on, and I am equally fussy about tyre pressures. I find that they tend to lose pressure a bit on the cold mornings, and hate being too low as they tend to wallow a bit.

I also redid my steering head bearings just before I put the tyres on, which may have made a big difference too.

Check your steering head bearings might be a good idea. And then tyre pressures and wheel balance.

[riffer]

I had the Z6 on the front, and found that it horribly triangulated.

Started out great, but after about 8,000 kms it was shagged. I must ride harder than you do - I seem to chew through tyres. I'm on my fourth front after 30,000 kms. I had to change it last month as I was getting nasty push in the front end going over Haywards - after one too many front end slides it had to go.

I've heard the Avons are not great for the last 1/3 of their life. We'll see how long I get out of these ones - I put about 350kms on the bike each week - so I reckon I may get six months out of them. <_<

What sort of wear is the rear experiencing on the Bird? I'm surprised how roughed up the Storm gets on the RF - more like a sports tyre than a Sport Tourer - it's actually bubblegummed on the edges by the end of Grays Rd... I haven't gone over the Takas yet but I imagine I'll give them a fair bit of wear on the hill.

[Hitcher]

I've heard the Avons are not great for the last 1/3 of their life.

I only had problems with my rear Storm for the last 500km before I replaced it. That was after 14,000km on an FJR1300, and you should see what one of those can do to a lesser tyre like a Conti Road Attack!

[riffer]

Indeed. Are you limiting the application of all the usable torque with the FJR Hitcher, to get such large mileage?

The front-end slides a front-heavy bike like mine goes through in winter give me the screaming shits, which is why I went for a sports tyre at the front this time.

I'm loving the Storm at the rear though. Even when cold, it doesn't spin up... neither did the Z6 but as you said, lesser tyres may give you grief.

What's your reasoning behind your bagging of the Contis?

[Hitcher]

What's your reasoning behind your bagging of the Contis?

I wish I had taken photos of the rear. It lugged up something chronic around the sides. Most unpretty. I think KoroJ had something similar happen on his ST1300. I know a lot of riders swear by them. I was singularly underwhelmed.

[Blackbird]

What sort of wear is the rear experiencing on the Bird? I'm surprised how roughed up the Storm gets on the RF - more like a sports tyre than a Sport Tourer - it's actually bubblegummed on the edges by the end of Grays Rd... I haven't gone over the Takas yet but I imagine I'll give them a fair bit of wear on the hill.

As I mentioned, I've done ~6000 km on the rear Storm and maybe 50% was touring the SI when we weren't pushing hard. I expect it to be dead at about 8000 km, but it hasn't squared off appreciably yet although it's torn up right to the edge as it never stops gripping. I'm impressed with Al getting 20000 km out of a front because although my front lasts a little longer than the rear, I always change them together as there is only a couple of thousand km in it. Maybe it's because I countersteer heavily in the tight stuff although the 6mm ride height spacer makes it quite easy to handle.

[BigB]

Hi All

I've had avon storms put on my blackbird and have done 6000km on them. Just off late the front has developed a shimmie which is very un nerving as its really noticeable in low speed corners.

Has any one else had this problem? When I took it in to cylcespot the guy just looked at the tyre and said yeah they have problems and there was nothing he could do.

cheers

Brian

[vifferman]

Hi All

I've had avon storms put on my blackbird and have done 6000km on them. Just off late the front has developed a shimmie which is very un nerving as its really noticeable in low speed corners.

Has any one else had this problem? When I took it in to cylcespot the guy just looked at the tyre and said yeah they have problems and there was nothing he could do.
I asked about this - there isn't a problem with the Storms as such - it's just with Storms on some Blackbirds. The BB is very front heavy, and the Storm ins't an ideal tyre for it, as the carcase is too flexible, especially in the sidewalls. This (apparently) makes the tread blocks flex too much, wearing them unevenly, leading to squirming. You could try running it at higher pressure, but it will take a while to bed in again (if it ever does).

[BigB]

thanks vifferman that makes since. I'll try them with a higher pressure and see if it makes any difference, they have been a great tyre and I'm getting good where.

cheers

[Hitcher]

and I'm getting good where.

Wear is what you're getting.

[Blackbird]

I asked about this - there isn't a problem with the Storms as such - it's just with Storms on some Blackbirds. The BB is very front heavy, and the Storm ins't an ideal tyre for it, as the carcase is too flexible, especially in the sidewalls. This (apparently) makes the tread blocks flex too much, wearing them unevenly, leading to squirming. You could try running it at higher pressure, but it will take a while to bed in again (if it ever does).

Where the heck did you get this info Ian? Largely incorrect I'm sorry to say. Most unlike you!

Cheers

Geoff

[Blackbird]

Refer to thread: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1368317#post1368317, post no 27. I've attached a draft end of life assessment on the Avon Storms which I prepared for the Avon importers, Dold Industries after comunicating with them on some problems with the front tyre when they were first released. I understand unofficially that the problem has now been addressed.

[BigB]

Hi Geoff

Your report is great, but I've got to say after my trip to Whangamata at the weekend I have no confidence in the Avon that's currently on the front of the blackbird.

Two up going over the Kopu hikuai rd every low speed corner felt like shit, the bars were moving all over the place. I have never felt so unsafe on the bird.

Unless Avon can guarantee that the problem has been fixed I won't be buying them again.

cheers

brian

[Blackbird]

Hi Brian and happy new year!

Yep, it sounds like you have the same magnitude of problem that Dave Easey had, mine was far less. You have every right to ask for redress as it's a known problem. If your tyre dealer won't help, I'll give you a contact at Dold Industries.

Cheers

Geoff

[vifferman]

Where the heck did you get this info Ian? Largely incorrect I'm sorry to say. Most unlike you!
Whelp, before my Storms were fitted, I asked Kerry @ Motohaus if he'd had any problems with faulty Storms, and had there been any issue with them? He said he'd had none, and as far as he knew the only problems with them had been with Blackbirds, and it was because they were unusually hard on front tyres, putting more stress on them than most bikes.
The bit about soft carcases, tread blocks etc is just conjecture on my part, based on my experience with the AV49-SP I had on the bike previously, and what I was told (by another tyre tech) about how soft the carcases were.

[vifferman]

I've heard the Avons are not great for the last 1/3 of their life.
My last set of Avons (not Storms) were terrible in the last few months I had them on: they had plenty of tread left, but wore unevenly and I had little confidence in them.
I don't expect the Storms to go the same way, but I'll be replacing them when I start to lose confidence in them, rather than when they're down to the wear bars.

[Hitcher]

My first set of Storms got a bit jittery at the rear during their last 500km. Mind you, they had lasted over 14,000km by then. I will be interested to see how the new lot goes now I've got an Ohlins rear shock fitted.

[Blackbird]

Well, there have been definite issues with the front but I think that's been solved. Allegedly, it was due to variations in bead thickness during manufacture causing transverse oscillating forces, but I haven't been able to confirm that yet. It wasn't only Blackbird owners that experienced the problem though. As you will see from the photos in the report, my front tyre has worn evenly with no evidence of triangulation which is normally a pointer to carcass flex. This showed up on The Dunlop D220 and Mk1 Azaros I had on a few years back and I have some horrific photos of the wear pattern due to flex. The Mk2 (ST) Azaros solved the problem with an improvement in the belt construction and I'd expect the Storms to be equal or better. The evidence certainly points to this. My next front tyre will be an Avon Viper as Dold want me to evaluate the combination for the Blackbird, which certainly "pushes" the front; although raising the ride height 6mm has certainly helped no end.

Hitch, will be interested in your experience with your new shock as i'm thinking of going down that route sometime this year.

[vifferman]

As you will see from the photos in the report, my front tyre has worn evenly with no evidence of triangulation which is normally a pointer to carcass flex.
That's interesting! My AV49-SP ended up very triangular, and guess what? It had a soft carcase.
It was a real bugger, because before I replaced it, I'd lean into a corner, and when it got to the edge of the tread wear, the profile changed suddenly, feeling like I'd lost the front end. :eek5:


My next front tyre will be an Avon Viper as Dold want me to evaluate the combination for the Blackbird, which certainly "pushes" the front; although raising the ride height 6mm has certainly helped no end.
Find out what you can about it first, Geoff.
My (limited) understanding is that the Viper is the replacement for the AV49-SP, and after my last experience, I turned down the offer of a Viper front in favour of matched Storms. It was a great tyre when new (as long as I kept the pressure at 38 or higher), but wore badly. The VFR doesn't 'push' the front end quite as much as the Blackbird, but is still somewhat bad for that. Or was, before I put heavier springs in.

[Hitcher]

Hitch, will be interested in your experience with your new shock as i'm thinking of going down that route sometime this year.

Do it anyway. Any additional tyre wear I get will be a bonus. Mr Ohlins knows shitloads more about suspension than Mr Yamaha or Mr Honda will ever know or, more importantly, want to invest in bikes that they market. The ride improvement is significant. So much so that I am soon to do the front shocks as well. Give Robert Taylor a hoy. He or his designated agent will see you right!

[MacD]

Find out what you can about it first, Geoff.
My (limited) understanding is that the Viper is the replacement for the AV49-SP, and after my last experience, I turned down the offer of a Viper front in favour of matched Storms. It was a great tyre when new (as long as I kept the pressure at 38 or higher), but wore badly.

Well I was reading this thread thinking that I was pleased that I have run Vipers rather than Storms/Azaros on the front of my RF900 and now the Bandit as I've had 3 Viper fronts now and none of them have had any moderate or high speed shimmy issues. At 8000km the Viper on the F900 was not noticeably triangulated (certainly not compared to the Dunlop 208 I had on there before). I changed the Viper on the Bandit at 12000km and it had only just started to show an appreciable amount of triangulation. I had just started to notice a degree of very slow speed (walking pace) squirm coming from the front, although it disappeared at any speed much above that. I usually run the front at 36psi and it is reasonably obvious if the pressure drops much below that as the handling becomes a bit heavy.

[homer]

K, so I got a new set of Avon Storm STs put on today (120/70-Z17 front 180/55-Z17 rear). I was expecting great things, but I also knew from reading a review here that some people have experienced a sort of wobble or wiggly feeling on them at low speed.

Well, count me among them. It feels as if the tires are heavier on one side than the other. It causes the bike to feel as if it is wiggling as you're riding along, and the effect becomes more noticeable the slower you go. The bike also seems to drift to the left if I take my hands off the bars. I tried it on a couple of different roads to be sure this wasn't caused by the camber, and while I can't be certain, I don't think it was. The wobble and drift ain't major—I don't think it is likely to affect handling. But it's disconcerting; and the fact that I don't know it won't affect handling is worrisome.

Does anyone know what causes this? Evidently it's a common issue with these tires. I got the Storms because they've received very good reviews in terms of wet handling, as well as longevity; and they were relatively cheap. I was hoping I wouldn't encounter this problem. Now I'm kinda wishing I'd stuck with what I know and got some Pirelli Diablo Corsas instead.

What should I do, in your collective view? Take them back and have some new ones fitted? Ignore it? Is it possibly just a wheel balancing issue that is easily solved? I got it done at Road and Sport in Hamilton, and they test rode the bike before they gave it back to me. I'd have thought they would have picked up on this...

Im not a trac person ...but if it dont feel right it goes
simple
If you keep it on there you ll be wondering forever and its always in your mind

i found similar with the bull s*** mitchlin pilot road .Istill have one on the front but its going soon to ,im not even going to bother trying to wear it out

May i suggest a metzler road tec z6
thats a fucken tyre

[Blackbird]

Well I was reading this thread thinking that I was pleased that I have run Vipers rather than Storms/Azaros on the front of my RF900 and now the Bandit as I've had 3 Viper fronts now and none of them have had any moderate or high speed shimmy issues. At 8000km the Viper on the F900 was not noticeably triangulated (certainly not compared to the Dunlop 208 I had on there before). I changed the Viper on the Bandit at 12000km and it had only just started to show an appreciable amount of triangulation. I had just started to notice a degree of very slow speed (walking pace) squirm coming from the front, although it disappeared at any speed much above that. I usually run the front at 36psi and it is reasonably obvious if the pressure drops much below that as the handling becomes a bit heavy.

Just to be absolutely clear before I getonefitted, are we talking about the Viper Sport, Supersport or Xtreme? I'm guessing it's the first of the 3. 12000 km sounds incredibly good for a relatively soft compound. Can't see them lasting that long on the 'bird.

Cheers,

Geoff

[vifferman]

I had just started to notice a degree of very slow speed (walking pace) squirm coming from the front, although it disappeared at any speed much above that.
Hi, Mr MacD! :wavey:
I don't think the SquirmyThing is anything other than just a quirk of the tyre (rather than a defect), maybe caused by the back-to-front tread pattern. Who knows?
But mine did it from new, and it was just a "Huh...that's weird!" thing as far as I'm concerned.

[MacD]

Viper Sports. I just checked my records and the distance between tyre changes on the Bandit was 11656km to be precise! ;) The front tyre was beyond its best by that stage, maybe by 1000-1500km, but still functional. The low speed squirm was noticable when slowing to walking pace, say coming up to a red light. Looking at the tyre it appeared that the leading/trailing edge of each tyre block had worn at different rates (not unusual to see due to directional forces when braking) and that the diagonal nature of the tread pattern mean that the tyre was "walking" from tread block to tread block producing the slow speed squirm. However it was only noticeable when upright and disappeared at any appreciable speed (say 20km/h +).

The Bandit is much less front heavy than the RF900, and I often ride two-up so probably are not braking hard into corners a lot of the time. Even so I too was pretty impressed by the mileage, which included a tour to Invercargill and back with pillion and luggage. The rear Azaro was worn down just beyond the centre tread markers when I changed it.

I'll post a picture of a Viper Sport at 8000km on the RF900 later.

[MacD]

Hi, Mr MacD! :wavey:
I don't think the SquirmyThing is anything other than just a quirk of the tyre (rather than a defect), maybe caused by the back-to-front tread pattern. Who knows?
But mine did it from new, and it was just a "Huh...that's weird!" thing as far as I'm concerned.

Hello to you too Sir :eek:

The difference for me was that I only noticed the SquirmyThing with the Viper Sport at the very end of the tyre life, not from new, and that's on 3 different tyres and 2 different bikes. The Storm front appears to have deeper/more pronounced tread blocks so maybe that contributes to the difference?

I still have the last DVD for you too! I'll be in touch about dropping it over sometime.

[Blackbird]

Viper Sports. I just checked my records and the distance between tyre changes on the Bandit was 11656km to be precise! ;) The front tyre was beyond its best by that stage, maybe by 1000-1500km, but still functional. The low speed squirm was noticable when slowing to walking pace, say coming up to a red light. Looking at the tyre it appeared that the leading/trailing edge of each tyre block had worn at different rates (not unusual to see due to directional forces when braking) and that the diagonal nature of the tread pattern mean that the tyre was "walking" from tread block to tread block producing the slow speed squirm. However it was only noticeable when upright and disappeared at any appreciable speed (say 20km/h +).

The Bandit is much less front heavy than the RF900, and I often ride two-up so probably are not braking hard into corners a lot of the time. Even so I too was pretty impressed by the mileage, which included a tour to Invercargill and back with pillion and luggage. The rear Azaro was worn down just beyond the centre tread markers when I changed it.

I'll post a picture of a Viper Sport at 8000km on the RF900 later.

Thank you for that info, much appreciated and I'll report on how the Viper goes with the Blackbird. The Azaros were known for walking pace weave and it was caused by the large band of rain grooves going in one direction then in the opposite direction on the rear tyre. The early Azaros didn't have a sufficiently strong carcass construction for heavier fast bikes like the Hayabusa and Blackbird and that's why they introduced the Azaro-ST. The Storm was developed from the Azaro-ST.

Fascinating things, tyres!:Punk:

Cheers,

Geoff

[vifferman]

Fascinating things, tyres!:Punk:

Quite useful too!

What is fascinating is the difference the feel can make to your riding, solely by how it affects your confidence in the amount of available grip and your feeling of security. Most of this is in your head (LOL!) - I've always been very cautious in the wet, but with the Storms the phrase "they're even better in the wet" (wonder who said that....?) was stuck in my head, so I had the confidence to push them a bit and not tense up. So if I fall on my head, it's all your fault, Geoff! :blank:

[imdying]

Not related... but after I fitted the last set of tyres to my ZX6R it was so wobbly that it took me about 1-2km before I could even ride it in a straight line. Predominantly used it for commuting, so I had become so used to the squared off tyres that the vastly improved agility of the bike was quite disconcerting... right up till I got to the first set of decent corners... bliss :yes:

[BigB]

Hi All

First up I'd like to say a big up's to Kerry at Motohaus :first::first:

Even though he didn't fit the front tyre he re balanced it at no cost to me:2thumbsup

They had real problems balancing the front and it now has an extra 50g of lead on it, a 50/50 split.

As of yet I haven't taken the bike for a decent ride so I'll let you know how I get on. Kerry has said that if the issue is still there that they'll replace the tyre which is great service from him and Avon.

cheers

Brian