The current state of the NZ economy [Archive]

SARGE

24th April 2007, 08:38

maybe if the NZ$ would devalue a bit ( 0.40-0.50 US) then the exporters could make a bit of $$ and the importers wouldnt get screwed.. a country cannot live on domestic sales .. a strong economy must be able to export its goods and technology.. right now .. many exporters are losing their asses so they are just holding onto everything .. lotta great Kiwi technology that is just sitting here onshore

The_Dover

24th April 2007, 09:22

.. lotta great Kiwi technology that is just sitting here onshore

yeah, those flash milking machines are awesome.

Finn

24th April 2007, 09:31

yeah, those flash milking machines are awesome.

Don't forget the Trekka.

http://www.trekka.co.nz/

degrom

24th April 2007, 09:32

I would not worry...

All fairy tails end well and we will all live happily ever after!!!

u4ea

24th April 2007, 09:34

hmm I see that article was written by an economist with the last name RANKIN............warning bells going off for sure......dont know what to believe any more!!!!!!:shutup:

cowpoos

24th April 2007, 10:29

It's just that at the moment we're too stupid to do anything more than grow sheep and cows.

why is the ag sector stupid finn?

Finn

24th April 2007, 10:35

why is the ag sector stupid finn?

Seriously, it's not but we can't rely on it forever. It's basically our only major exporter and that's not good.

"We must build a knowledge economy" What a joke. The Government doesn't even know what it is.

cowpoos

24th April 2007, 10:44

Seriously, it's not but we can't rely on it forever. It's basically our only major exporter and that's not good.

"We must build a knowledge economy" What a joke. The Government doesn't even know what it is.
strangly you right...[fuck did I say that]... new zealnd used to be the most efficent country for producing ag commodities...and it only a matter of time before more and more emerging third world countrys get better and better at it and we will loose our edge in this sector...and we arn't doing much about it!!

Paul in NZ

24th April 2007, 11:05

"We must build a knowledge economy" What a joke. The Government doesn't even know what it is.

Oh yes - thats my favourite laugh line as well.... wtf exactly is a knowlege economy? More importantly - how do you do that again???

James Deuce

24th April 2007, 11:12

strangly you right...[fuck did I say that]... new zealnd used to be the most efficent country for producing ag commodities...and it only a matter of time before more and more emerging third world countrys get better and better at it and we will loose our edge in this sector...and we arn't doing much about it!!

Malaysia is already selling butter to the restaurant market in NZ and milk powder in the Pacific. A lot of the Jersey herds in Malaysia originated around the corner from you in Carterton. Malaysia's economy is starting to go ballistic, and on the back of acquiring intellectual property from NZ, Australia, and the UK.

That's how you build a knowledge economy. You make sure that the knowledge actually results in manufacturing processes and research that make money. You also keep corporates OUT of your Universities. Met Dr Matathir many times. Clever bloke. Doesn't take shit from Socialists.

Finn

24th April 2007, 11:17

A lot of the Jersey herds in Malaysia originated around the corner from you in Carterton.

Talk about a lack of knowledge. Jersey's come from sheep. Cows produce leather.

Besides, Malaysia will never be able to compete with NZ. Their cows have small tits.

Swoop

24th April 2007, 12:15

Hopefully the Malasian farmers know how to whine and complain as well as kiwi ones.

Delerium

24th April 2007, 13:09

Nz does have a knowledge economy. People get university degrees, get annoyed at the low wage economy and leave overseas. Just like whats happening to me.

cowpoos

24th April 2007, 13:14

watching....

Hitcher

24th April 2007, 13:33

A knowledge economy isn't (or rather shouldn't be) about promulgating a qualifications framework. That adds no value to anything, including those with the "qualifications". It is extremely dangerous to assume any connection between qualifications and knowledge.

I think that a knowledge economy is about (or rather should be) about encouraging boffins to take risks and be creative and then look to extract commercial advantage from the new shit they invent. It's also about refining and enhancing current tools and systems so that they're better than anybody else's.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

jrandom

24th April 2007, 14:35

A 'knowledge economy' is based on the generation of intellectual property rather than products or services. You can't have a whole world being a knowledge economy - someone's got to grow the corn and dig out the coal. But NZ's small enough that it has the potential to exist at the tip of that pyramid.

IP carries the potential of generating exponential amounts of value, whereas revenue from milk powder, wood chips and billable lawyer hours can only grow linearly based on how many cows, pine trees or lawyers you can farm.

F'r'instance, me, I'm sitting here in my brand new ultra-tiny office trying desperately to get a software product together which, if it flies, could generate seven figures of revenue within its first year from my efforts alone, simply from its sheer potential usefulness to a particular industry.

The wet dream of an economy of four million people doing that and (mostly) succeeding at it is what keeps the pollies lying awake at night jacking off.

Unfortunately, for it to really work, you need a population where most people aren't significantly stupider than I am.

In other words, we're fucked...

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 14:48

why is the ag sector stupid finn?

It's not - it's just unfortunate the products of the Ag sector can be reproduced in other similar climates that are a lot closer to the ultimate consumer. Take the transport costs out of the equation and we compete wit the best of 'em.

Problem is - those transport costs are here to stay. unless NZ lifts anchor and heads towards the North Sea, or Med, or ...

Rant warning

We need to invest more in the Technology revolution (is that what Uncle Helly called it?). What a fucken joke. Put up some posters, have some jugglers talking about IT peddling up and down queen St for a week and it all done... NOT!

INVEST in R&D. For fucks sake it's so obvious. Tax breaks for the things we want to promote, tax hikes on things we want to discourage and away we go. So do we do it? Hell no - that might lose the votes of the unemployed, productionless, apathetic, benefits sucking masses that vote the lying arseholes into Parliament to start with.

Or was that too hard to figure out?

I love paying tax... last year I paid more tax than the average salary (yeah yeah)... and it fucken HURTS. Yes I've got more to spend... but I'd have even more (and we all would) if the voters didn't insist on sitting on their arses doing nothing all day in exchagnge for (my) cash. That money should be contribution to the future of me and mine - and yet... it's not.

I'ts being syphoned off along the way to all manner of miscreants eligible for the vote - oh and the dole.

'nuff said.

Skyryder

24th April 2007, 15:20

With the exception of the globally buoyant dairy industry, New Zealand banks don't want to lend to businesses that compete with foreign producers. The high New Zealand dollar has rendered uncompetitive New Zealand's manufacturing, tradable services and non-dairy farming. Yet these crippled industries are required to be our country's breadwinners of the twenty-first century. How else will we pay for our imports when the baby-boom generation retires? Why would anyone start an export business knowing that favourable conditions (as in 2001) will only ever be short-lived?

You can have all the knowledge economies you want but at the end of the day you need goods to trade with.

Skyyrder

Finn

24th April 2007, 15:29

Unfortunately, for it to really work, you need a population where most people aren't significantly stupider than I am.

Or modest. But I agree.

Finn

24th April 2007, 15:32

I love paying tax... last year I paid more tax than the average salary (yeah yeah)... and it fucken HURTS.

Then stop doing it. Good post though.

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 15:39

Then stop doing it. Good post though.

Then teach me oh wise one (no - seriously). I probably know it but am too fucken lasy or stupid or somehow embued with a moral debt to society. I also have a mortgage than feels like I'm disembowelled every month.

I think I'll call it my period...

Beer... sir...?

jrandom

24th April 2007, 15:42

Then teach me oh wise one...

You're a schlub on salary. You don't have a lot of options if you stay that way.

Finn

24th April 2007, 15:42

Then teach me oh wise one (no - seriously). I probably know it but am too fucken lasy or stupid or somehow embued with a moral debt to society. I also have a mortgage than feels like I'm disembowelled every month.

I think I'll call it my period...

Beer... sir...?

A sharp accountant could lower your tax liability but it does require a bit of work to get there. Your mortgage will help you.

Beer? Sure.

jrandom

24th April 2007, 15:44

Or modest.

I did cringe ever so slightly as I typed that post, but I figured it's both true and relevant, and everyone already thinks I'm a cunt, so what the hell.

jrandom

24th April 2007, 15:45

Beer? Sure.

If you're going to hold a wise-up session on LAQCs and the like for MDU, can I come too? It's all Greek to me.

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 15:45

A sharp accountant could lower your tax liability but it does require a bit of work to get there. Your mortgage will help you.

Beer? Sure.

I can possibly name one but she's ultra conservative... names are good - beer is gooder. 'sides I owe you one - and a beer too. Name the date and make sure you're lubed up

Finn

24th April 2007, 15:47

I did cringe ever so slightly as I typed that post, but I figured it's both true and relevant, and everyone already thinks I'm a cunt, so what the hell.

Then that's okay. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance and buggered if I can find it. This doesn't go down well in NZ.

Without divulging too much info on your software development, can you let us know what it is?

Finn

24th April 2007, 15:53

I can possibly name one but she's ultra conservative... names are good - beer is gooder. 'sides I owe you one - and a beer too. Name the date and make sure you're lubed up

A conservative accountant is about as useful as a non-confrontational lawyer.

Finn

24th April 2007, 15:56

If you're going to hold a wise-up session on LAQCs and the like for MDU, can I come too? It's all Greek to me.

Sure. I'm no expert but I have a good accountant and will find out. In short, make yourself look as poor as possible. I'm very poor and this is depressing.

jrandom

24th April 2007, 16:02

Without divulging too much info on your software development, can you let us know what it is?

Lightweight CFD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_fluid_dynamics) integrating with common CAD software for engineers who need ballpark results and optimised computation for a specific problem right now. Most design teams have neither the budget, the project timeline, the skillset or the CPU resources to bother with a $20K FEM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEM) software package.

Fingers crossed. Customers are waiting and my venture capital is a-burning.

Scouse

24th April 2007, 16:05

I love paying tax... last year I paid more tax than the average salary (yeah yeah)... and it fucken HURTS.If thats the case why are you still riding an old peice of shit 1994 RF900

Finn

24th April 2007, 16:09

Lightweight CFD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_fluid_dynamics) integrating with common CAD software for engineers who need ballpark results and optimised computation for a specific problem right now. Most design teams have neither the budget, the project timeline, the skillset or the CPU resources to bother with a $20K FEM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEM) software package.

Fingers crossed. Customers are waiting and my venture capital is a-burning.

Sounds really interesting. You must have passed 5th form Physics like I did, but probably stayed on for a few more years.

Good luck with it.

SARGE

24th April 2007, 16:10

Sure. I'm no expert but I have a good accountant and will find out. In short, make yourself look as poor as possible. I'm very poor and this is depressing.

shorter way ..

rack up heaps on HP and piss off overseas for 10 years

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 16:16

If thats the case why are you still riding an old peice of shit 1994 RF900

Rule #1 - put money into assets that go up... not down in value.

SARGE

24th April 2007, 16:18

Rule #1 - put money into assets that go up... not down in value.

or...

buy a 15 year old bike and pour $$ into it until your mods are worth more than you paid for the bike ...worked for me..

i saw last night that in 10 years, your average Kiwi will not be able to buy a house ..

to put this into perspective ... the wife and i have been looking around the $350 k mark, but it has to be close to the CBD for her job and in a good school district, as we have kids in school...

now .. the BEST we found in that price range in this area is too small ( family of 5).. no garage ( !!!!) and it was defiantly a :fixxer-upper.."

conversely .. in the US State of Ohio where i am from .. $350k will get you a 5 bedroom split level ranch on at LEAST an acre with a 4 car garage and close to everything in a low crime area .. .. oh .. and it has a heater and insulation ..

Finn

24th April 2007, 16:18

Rule #1 - put money into assets that go up... not down in value.

Then why are you married? :Punk:

RantyDave

24th April 2007, 16:21

Hmmm. Finite Elements. Although an engineer without a $20k FEM package is a little like a taxi driver without a taxi ... like, so why *are* we paying them. But I can certainly see the attraction.

I feel I must weigh in, having been involved in this fine shitfight for the last few years. New Zealand has no problem with knowledge. We invested heavily in education while the country was stinking rich and the generally pleasant lifestyle attracts smart people from around the world. Myself included, ha!

What we don't have is people who are any good at turning this into fucking money. What is truly needed for a knowledge economy is a small and necessarily elitst class of arrogant bastards who honestly, genuinely believe they are the best thing since sliced bread and feel the need to prove it by taking monster risks and _selling_ whatever shit it is they've decided to attach themselves to this week. There are a couple (I quote Rod Drury as today's most obvious example - http://www.drury.net.nz/) and they do very well, but we need dozens, and we need other people to invest in them (for which the government is doing it's part).

Keep the Universities and CRI's as far away from all this as possible. You really think you're going to find someone who's spent all their lives taking and pulling off huge gambles in a University in New Zealand? Don't give them another penny, glorified drinking clubs that they are.

That's the basics. I think that's the basics. Don't get me started on the rest.

Dave

SARGE

24th April 2007, 16:25

What is truly needed for a knowledge economy is a small and necessarily elitst class of arrogant bastards who honestly, genuinely believe they are the best thing since sliced bread and feel the need to prove it by taking monster risks and _selling_ whatever shit it is they've decided to attach themselves to this week.

we have Finn.....thats close ..

avgas

24th April 2007, 16:29

Sounds cool fish. What sort of ball park are you looking at for yours. Also what is Solidworks worth these days....been many years since i did Thermofluids and stresstesting.

mstriumph

24th April 2007, 16:30

I did cringe ever so slightly as I typed that post, but I figured it's both true and relevant, and everyone already thinks I'm a cunt, so what the hell.
the fact you cringed mebbe proves you aren't?

Scouse

24th April 2007, 16:51

Rule #1 - put money into assets that go up... not down in value.If you mean that the RF will go up in value? all I can say is good luck with that then

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 16:52

If you're going to hold a wise-up session on LAQCs and the like for MDU, can I come too? It's all Greek to me.

LAQC's I can help with - big talk, white board needed. I don;t know how much I know - that's the thing... more is ALWAYS good.

Am always happy to sit a swap notes with those that know more/less/different of course.

Happy to swap bodily fluids with 'em if they're cute too.

SARGE

24th April 2007, 16:58

Happy to swap bodily fluids with 'em if they're cute too.

im cute ....

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 17:05

If you mean that the RF will go up in value? all I can say is good luck with that then

aaaa yes - myopia at it's finest.

Let's say I didn't buy the RF at $6,300, and spend 8.8c/km riding it (I'll leave out the other factors for the time being... let's call it a round 15c/km shall we) ok... so it's gone from being worth $6,300 to about $2,500 in the space of 50,000kms.

Total cost of travel = $7,500 variable + $3,800 depreciation... holy shit batman - that's $11,300 for 50,000kms!

I shouldn't have bought it - clearly - I shoud be taking the bus! ok... so $7.50 per journey, $15.00 return to work every day.

Here's your homework - How many days does it take before the bus is the less attractive option - which brings me onto rule #2... minimise expenditure. What's that break even point assuming the values given?

I've owned the bike 5 years now - am I ahead of the game. If not, when will it happen. If so - by how much?

Keeping up with Joneses is a dumb move when the Joneses are living well beyond their means.

ManDownUnder

24th April 2007, 17:06

im cute ....

In a "Please put your clothes back on sir" kind of way - sure. I'm not that kind of boy though

RantyDave

24th April 2007, 17:14

How many days does it take before the bus is the less attractive option
It's a trick question. By the time you've done the first journey by bus you no longer care what the alternative is. Hence people commuting in cars.

Dave

MisterD

24th April 2007, 17:37

IP carries the potential of generating exponential amounts of value, whereas revenue from milk powder, wood chips and billable lawyer hours can only grow linearly based on how many cows, pine trees or lawyers you can farm.

..and here's me thinking the point of IP accumulation was to grow rich off the back of licencing deals and sueing for patent infringment..

jrandom

25th April 2007, 07:28

grow rich off the back of licencing deals...

Isn't that more or less the definition of selling software?

sueing for patent infringment...

The last resort of the incompetent.

Pixie

25th April 2007, 11:19

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0704/S00349.htm

Interesting. Why the free market does not work for New Zealanders.

Skyryder

The free market does work.
It's just that too many NZers think it means they should expect to be given stuff for free.

Pixie

25th April 2007, 11:26

Mr Merde

25th April 2007, 12:08

If you're going to hold a wise-up session on LAQCs and the like for MDU, can I come too? It's all Greek to me.

Me too, I hate giving away my hard earned cash to those who havent earned it. For services I dont get and for that self perpetuating mostrosity called "government"

Mr :shit:

I belong to the least represented most repressed section of NZ society.

Employed, middle class, "white", heterosexual, and male.

We support all the rest of societies fuck ups

mangell6

25th April 2007, 13:04

The free market does work.
It's just that too many NZers think it means they should expect to be given stuff for free.

Oh so true!

My daughter and her Fiance are looking at purchasing a house in Lower Hutt, they "SAVE" their money, they have a "CHEAP" car, they "SAVE UP" to BUY things, they still get caught up in the "get it now, you deserve it" as we all do from time to time.

There seems to be lots of small businesses in New Zealand where the knowledge that the owner has seems to work rather well for them.

I realised the other day that it had taken us about five years to get our first home, both working and "SAVING", it was "below average". It took us even longer with children and one income to get to an "Average Home".

But I forget that we should have our cake and want to eat it as well. Long live the workers that they may keep the consumerism rampant and the banks in business.

Mike

PS How many NZ banks are there??

Skyryder

25th April 2007, 17:01

The free market does work.
It's just that too many NZers think it means they should expect to be given stuff for free.

Wrong Pixie so wrong. What there are to many of in this country are the 'freebooters' who contribute absolutely nothing to our economy. Parasites all. I see little difference in them than the people that 'expect to be given stuff for free.'

For example the money traders that the article I posted about are 'not' getting anything for free.

Skyryder