ANZAC Day.

[Colapop]

Australia and New Zealand Army Corps.

We celebrate a 'day off', a holiday. How many of us remember those men and women who fought and gave their lives to protect our future. Regardless of whether they were right or wrong to fight, regardless of whether war is right or wrong, they willingly fought to protect a future they would never see. They fought to protect their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Too often we take for granted the freedom we enjoy in this country. We moan about the injustice of the law, we complain about how hard our lives are, and we complain about the ineptitude of the government. There are places that are worse, that are still wracked by violence and war.

Be thankful and remember those that have gone before. Lest we forget.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

[Grub]

...........

[98tls]

Well said............lest we forget.

[Donor]

We will remember them...

[NighthawkNZ]

To often we take for granted the freedom we enjoy in this country. We moan about the injustice of the law, we complain about how hard our lives are, and we complain about the ineptitude of the government. There are places that are worse, that are still wracked by violence and war.

well said... but our freedoms are slowly disappearing with this government

[Babelfish]

I hope we dont get any hijacking on this thread, your words need only support colapop, nicely said. After only a little thought and rememberance the daily "worries" I have pale in comparison to what my relatives went through to make sure I could "worry" about them. Lest we forget.

[Timber020]

My great grandmother lost 2 sons and her husband in world war 2.

War sucks. Dulce decorum est pro patria mori

See you at dawn guys, its the least you can do.

[James Deuce]

Fishlock, William Frederick George. (Royal Navy P/Mx 54685 - Chief Petty Officer RNZN 13793, WWII, Korean War).

Member of the only Royal Naval Commando Unit formed in WWII.

Served on HMS Nelson for 4 years. HMS Ceylon for 3. Infiltrated Japanese held territory in SE Asia from '43-'45 and "cleared" Japanese soldiers unwilling to surrender for all of '46, from Burma and Malaysia. Emmigrated to NZ in '47 as part of the Training Cadre for HMNZS Black Prince, and HMNZS Royalist.

Died last year, aged '86. 5'4", slight of build. Hardarse when it mattered. Gentleman most of the time, knew what to say to "fix" things. Sorely missed for his insight into the human condition, his intelligence, and most of all his love. Not that he'd say that unless he was about to rip your throat out in the next 20 seconds.

Could drink until everyone else's eyes were bleeding.

[Ixion]

I hope we dont get any hijacking on this thread,..

I'll keep an eye on it.

EDIT:. 'Tis a matter that means much to amny. So keep it seemly and on topic please folks. Any derelictions will be infractionated.

[Oakie]

ANZAC Day means more to me than Waitangi Day regarding our nationhood and I will be spending a bit of time tomorrow thinking about those who sacrificed themselves on our behalf.
Incidentally, my long term plan is to be at Galipolli for the 100th anniversary in 2015.

[Swoop]

The fallen are remembered every year. Without fail.

We will remember them.

[smoky]

My old Anglo friend Bill - William Thirkel
served with the para's, been undercover in Germany, held captive for a while, escaped and and continued to fight with the resistance until his return to England, he saw a lot of friends die in the war - man he has some history to tell.

lives localy in NZ now
Still walking, driving, he's a bit deaf, only one eye works now, but his mind is still sharp as a tack. All his mates have slowly slipped on

must be a lonely sad day for him.

Thanks

[Pussy]

Echoed my thoughts, Colapop. To be there at dawn is the least we can do to pay our respects to those fine young men. Lest we forget.....

[Mom]

Had an interesting day today.........played Last Post to a hundred or so primary aged kids for part of their ANZAC day education. Tomorrow will find me out at Leigh, playing the Last Post for the service there, as I have done for several years now.

"we will remember them"

[Meekey_Mouse]

well said... but our freedoms are slowly disappearing with this government

Agreed :yes:

But we will remember them.

As a young'in, I don't know much of the pain or suffering that happened, but I am thankful that the young (-ish) people of those days stood up for our country :grouphug:

[James Deuce]

Agreed :yes:

But we will remember them.

As a young'in, I don't know much of the pain or suffering that happened, but I am thankful that the young (-ish) people of those days stood up for our country :grouphug:

Find out, or it wasn't worth it.

[dogsnbikes]

Australia and New Zealand Army Corps.

We celebrate a 'day off', a holiday. How many of us remember those men and women who fought and gave their lives to protect our future. Regardless of whether they were right or wrong to fight, regardless of whether war is right or wrong, they willingly fought to protect a future they would never see. They fought to protect their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Too often we take for granted the freedom we enjoy in this country. We moan about the injustice of the law, we complain about how hard our lives are, and we complain about the ineptitude of the government. There are places that are worse, that are still wracked by violence and war.

Be thankful and remember those that have gone before. Lest we forget.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

Tomorrow we ride our iron horses in memory of our forfathers who gave up their freedom to ensure our freedom today as our brothers and sisters are doing today throughout the world :rockon:May they all come home

[Mom]

Agreed :yes:

But we will remember them.

As a young'in, I don't know much of the pain or suffering that happened, but I am thankful that the young (-ish) people of those days stood up for our country :grouphug:

There were boys of 15 and 16 out there fighting, take the time to visit a war memorial sometime and look at the names.......Learn what happened


Find out, or it wasn't worth it.

Jim2, I disagree with you, or maybe I agree?????

It was a terrible time in the development of the world as we know it, it WAS worth it! But what a shocking way to get where we are now. I just hope that as a people we all acknowledge the sacrifices that were made for us, honour the fallen, and their families.

[Curious_AJ]

lest we forget....

but I must admit, i practically know nothing about why there is an ANZAC day...
I don't come from NZ, and no one has ever bothered to explain it to me really, however, I know it means a lot to a lot of people... so I bow my head in reverance...

[Whynot]

lest we forget....

but I must admit, i practically know nothing about why there is an ANZAC day...
I don't come from NZ, and no one has ever bothered to explain it to me really, however, I know it means a lot to a lot of people... so I bow my head in reverance...

all you need to know right here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzac_day

[Pumba]

At the going down of the sun

We will remember them

[Colapop]

We do not remember their deaths. We remember the freedom they strove to protect. We do not glorify their deaths. We respect the sacrifice they made for people they would never know.

[Curious_AJ]

I would preferr it to be explained to me personally... thanks for the link, but it still doesnt convey the feeling to me...

[peasea]

I hope we dont get any hijacking on this thread, your words need only support colapop, nicely said. After only a little thought and rememberance the daily "worries" I have pale in comparison to what my relatives went through to make sure I could "worry" about them. Lest we forget.

Too right, we have it easy in this life.

My grandfather was gassed in the trenches in WWI and survived to 92. He hardly spoke of that war and got TB etc, he coughed to his dying day but he never joined the RSA or went to any parades.

My father was at Normandy, in the Pacific Fleet and on Russian convoys, did some minesweeping and made 88. He never claimed his medals and spoke of the war only in his last years. His thinking was this; "it's over, forget it". They aren't my words, they are quoted directly from a veteran.

While I'd never, ever, deny anyone the right to go to dawn parades for rememberance of the real heroes who fought for what we have, I remember my forefathers in the way that I think they'd like to be remembered; on a daily basis. I do this by working hard to preserve what they fought for, feeding my offspring, housing them and respecting my missus and loving my children in a truly great country. We have it all here and I value it. Pull the piss out of the cops, the politicians or whoever; this is still a great country, loaded with good food, wine, beer and some of the greatest scenery on the planet, so I'm going to be forever disobedient toward my father and never, ever "forget it".

Sorry dad, but I remember it every day. What you did, what you suffered, what my mother suffered, waiting in line in London with food stamps, windows blown out, building on fire and V1 buzz bombs overhead. My eldest sister recalls those things. "If they're engines are going you were ok, if they stopped, you just ran inside and hid".

What a thing for a toddler to grow up with. (She's still around too...)

Don't just remember this stuff on April 25th people, remember it daily.

....and give thanks.

[Delerium]

Will be at the swanson rsa on parade tomorrow. no doubt a few of the other boys will be there.

[98tls]

Today i spent a few minutes out of a great ride in a little place called Naseby........across from the pub a monument to the local boys who went and died in the great war.......i stood and looked around......listened to the silence.....the peacefullness........in some way for a moment i realised just how great there sacrifice was........almost........

[Big Dave]

Designed this book a while ago.
Restored the images digitally from scans.
The Archie Story.
The high res are amazing. Hard yards.

http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/Sites/archie_web/index.htm

[Biff]

Thanks.....

[paturoa]

O. E. Olsen 1898 - 1987, enlisted Christmas 1917, Rifleman NZEF 78184 went straight to the western front. 19 August 1918 had a significant part of his leg "removed" in the recapture of Paschendale. He spent the next 18 months in hospital in England before returning to NZ.

The war was a closed subject for my Pop. Whenever the topic came up he would sit there quietly, and a tear would be shead.

...lest we forget

[Donor]

I would preferr it to be explained to me personally... thanks for the link, but it still doesnt convey the feeling to me...

Go to the civic parade tomorrow at the local cenotaph.

The spirit you will feel there will tell you everything.

Then head down to the nearest RSA, buy the oldest face you can see a drink, and have a hanky handy.

Tomorrow is the first year in many I will not be able to make it to the RSA for a rum and coffee before dawn service... I am gutted...

[Curious_AJ]

cenotaph??

I dont know where the nearest RSA is.. and i would have no way of getting there :(

[Ixion]

Nearest to you is prolly Takapuna, on the corner of Northcote and Tararotu (sp) roads, opposite the petrol station. Behind North Shore Hospital, that little road that goes down to the quarry lake.

Cenotaph is in the Domain, that big obelisk in front of the museum.

[Curious_AJ]

aah... thank you... (sorry, I'm not really familiar with terms and where things are around here.. heh)

[NZHog]

My thanks to those that have served, I will give them in person as usual at Dawn Parade.

As I celebrate my freedom to ride later in the day you will be in my thoughts & at the going down of the sun I will remember you.

[onearmedbandit]

Strange but I often think of what these boys and men went through, compared to what our lives are like. To travel half way around the world, leaving family, loved ones behind, to live in atrocious conditions, and to fight, and possibly die in worse, I can not begin to comprehend what they experienced. To live in a country as I do now without the fear of dying in another land, to not have 'blackouts' to avoid bombings, to not hear the screams of those injured and dying around me, man I'm lucky and I got my forefathers to thank for that.

Education is wasted on the young. When I was in school I was not remotely interested in this sort of topic, and too young to appreciate it (funny that, at only a little older these boys were off to fight). Now that I'm older I'm fascinated by it, and enjoy hearing first hand accounts of action. Not for the blood and gore, but to laugh at myself and my worries!

[peasea]

aah... thank you... (sorry, I'm not really familiar with terms and where things are around here.. heh)

We're going to the domain tomorrow, my lady just talked me into it. I've never been to a dawn parade, just as my forefathers never did (I guess they didn't see the need as they'd already done their bit), however, I'll get along and have a wee think.

[peasea]

Strange but I often think of what these boys and men went through, compared to what our lives are like. To travel half way around the world, leaving family, loved ones behind, to live in atrocious conditions, and to fight, and possibly die in worse, I can not begin to comprehend what they experienced. To live in a country as I do now without the fear of dying in another land, to not have 'blackouts' to avoid bombings, to not hear the screams of those injured and dying around me, man I'm lucky and I got my forefathers to thank for that.

Education is wasted on the young. When I was in school I was not remotely interested in this sort of topic, and too young to appreciate it (funny that, at only a little older these boys were off to fight). Now that I'm older I'm fascinated by it, and enjoy hearing first hand accounts of action. Not for the blood and gore, but to laugh at myself and my worries!

PM me and I'd be happy to relay a tale or two told to me by my father, a signalman in the Royal Navy on HMS Kempenfelt. Interesting, scary and insightful. Might take a day or two mind.

[klingon]

My Dear Old Dad...

Born 25 March 1925
Joined the Navy 1942
Escorted convoys across the North Atlantic until 1945 (on a Flower class Corvette)
Occupation forces in Japan 1945 - 1947
Korea 1952

Suffered in a way that few of us could imagine

And still found the capacity to love and be loved

He doesn't tell war stories, will never join the RSA, and never, ever wants us to go to war again

Dad, I'm proud to be your daughter. Rock on, old man

[Indiana_Jones]

I know I remember them, and the same for fellow Brits on the 11/11

-Indy

[Romeo]

<img src="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/RomeoEskobar/14520-20remember.jpg">


In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly,
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.





Source: the Forgotten Hope team @ forgottenhope.bf1942files.com - They fought yesterday so we need not fight today

[xwhatsit]

Being a trumpet/horn player I've been at dawn parades for a long time here and Australia, and it always shocked me to see these old men so serious and putting so much strength into this curious ritual. That's something that drove it home for me what my schoolteachers called the sacrifice they made; not only the ones who were killed, but the ones who survived sacrificed a fair bit of the quality of their lives, until they too die. Must be a hell of thing to remember and relive.

So thanks to those who fought, no matter whose side or for what reasons they were led to fight, they were put through a hell of a lot for not very much and that should be applauded.

Like OAB said too, people harp on about global warming and terrorism, but not very long ago there were other terrible things happening in the world. Today should serve as a reminder, not only to thank people and pay our respects, but to try and minimise having to carve more names into the stone.

[Romeo]

So thanks to those who fought, no matter whose side or for what reasons they were led to fight...

I find myself pondering this often when thinking of global conflicts, sitting in my Marketing class today with my study group. Kyoko from Japan, Dominic from Germany and myself, a kiwi [all of us had a grandfather in WW2]. Got to thinking that you know, 50-60 years ago it could have been us shooting at each other, clamering over death hellbent on each others destruction - and for what?

It boggles my mind... and yet it continues to this very day

[jrandom]

Glad to see this thread up.

Just got back from dawn service at the Domain.

My grandfather fought in North Africa and Italy with the New Zealand Division in WW2. I've always been grateful that he was willing to tell me his stories when I was a kid.

We will remember them.

[riffer]

My uncle Gerry (from his Obituary).

Gerry Gotlieb. born 1923. died 19 August 2006 aged 83.

Furniture was his business but family and flying were the ebullient Gerry Gotlieb’s (936-38) passions. He joined the air force at 8 and flew Spitfires in the European theatre of World War II. He was smitten by the power and romance of flight but the need to make a living and family responsibilities kept him out of the sky from then till 1968, when he got his private pilot’s license through the Wellington Aero Club.


Gerry’s father, Maurice, had a furniture manufacturing and retail business with shops in <st1:city w:st="on">Wellington</st1:city>’s <st1:street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Willis St</st1:address></st1:street> and Palmerston North and it was into this family business that he went on leaving <st1><st1>Wellington </st1><st1>College</st1></st1>. Eventually, he branched out into a small furniture factory of his own in Kilbirnie.


It was while delivering a lamp to customers Mr and Mrs Wolman that he met his future wife, their daughter Ruth. Their marriage flourished though early on, they had to cope with the challenge of having four children in five years. Later, he became a constant support to her in her years as a Wellington City Councillor.


Whenever he could, he flew. In the 1970s he had a tiny Volkswagen-engine monoplane which he flew acrobatically and regularly about 500 hours a year. Little planes, he said, were much more fun than anything bigger. He crashed the monoplane about 30 years ago. He was not seriously injured and his love affair with flight endured. When he was 67 and chief instructor at the Upper Valley Gliding Club at Kaitoke, he won all the trophies at the National Gilding Club Class Championships held at Waipukurau, despite terrible weather that cut the 5-day contest to two.


In 1996, at 73, he won the club class title at the <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Auckland</st1></st1:city> gliding championships. He was the oldest competitor, or the oldest codger competing, as his admiring wife put it. Gliding, he had decided, was a bigger challenge than powered flight, keeping up in the air when, by all the laws of gravity, you should be on the ground. You’re pitting your knowledge of where the lift is coming from, and there’s the adrenaline when you’re stuck up in the mountains and looking for somewhere to land and there’s not a paddock in sight. It’s the peak of detachment — there’s nothing up there but the wind. He last went gliding just a few months before his death. If detachment in the air appealed, it was not something that characterised his life on terra firma. He was a member of numerous clubs relating to flying,including the Amateur Aircraft Constructors Association, the Wellington A Club and the Brevet Club. He was lover of jazz and an adept musician on the piano, trumpet and keyboard. Until shortly before his death, he continued to play the keyboard as an accompaniment to Laurie Penny’s singing in homes for the elderly around <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Wellington</st1></st1:city>.


He was interested enough in range of issues to write regularly, often tongue-in-cheek, to the editors of Wellington papers over the years, on everything from tooting in the Mt Victoria tunnel (he disapproved, and sparked voluminous correspondence from other letter writers) to the televised kiss of two women at a cricket match in Napier earlier this year (he couldn’t see why two women couldn’t kiss in public in a country that sanctions same-sex unions) to serious issues deeply important to him such as Israel and the Middle East.


The good humour with which he characteristically approached all aspects of his life often came out in his correspondence. Writing of the success of an Anzac Day concert in the Wellington Town Hall, he enthused no one came away feeling they had been hit on the head with an 80kg speaker.
<o></o>
He was, with his wife, active in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Wellington</st1></st1:city>’s Jewish community and a member of the Wellington Hebrew congregation.
<o></o>

[WRT]

"The inquisitive mind of a child" - Author Unknown

Why are they selling poppies, Mummy?
Selling poppies in town today.
The poppies, child, are flowers of love.
For the men who marched away.

But why have they chosen a poppy, Mummy?
Why not a beautiful rose?
Because my child, men fought and died
In the fields where the poppies grow.

But why are the poppies so red, Mummy?
Why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood, my child.
The blood that our soldiers shed.

The heart of the poppy is black, Mummy.
Why does it have to be black?
Black, my child, is the symbol of grief.
For the men who never came back.

But why, Mummy are you crying so?
Your tears are giving you pain.
My tears are my fears for you my child.
For the world is forgetting again.



Lest we forget.

[Pussy]

My gratitude and respect for past and present sevicemen/women.
We will remember them.....

[Donor]

Managed to get to the Papakura cenotaph right at the end of the service thanks to a bad night with kids...

But got to see the parade march out on their way back to the RSA, so stood and watched feeling extremely humble, looking as so many old yet smiling faces.

Rode into work, and have just realised I've come in with my pillion pegs down... I was going to put them up, but I think it's somehow fitting. The old soldiers carried out a fight in my unknown name, I think it's only fitting I carry them for a day...

[yungatart]

I will be attending the civic service in Taradale with Henry, our Finnish lad.
I have been going to Anzac parades since I was a Girl Guide...I always cry..The Last Post gets me every time!
My mother's six older brothers went off to WW11, and miraculously, they all returned!
Lest we forget.....

[peasea]

Glad to see this thread up.

Just got back from dawn service at the Domain.

My grandfather fought in North Africa and Italy with the New Zealand Division in WW2. I've always been grateful that he was willing to tell me his stories when I was a kid.

We will remember them.

Yeah, we went to the Domain, huge crowd huh? Ran into a few bikers I knew too, good to see them there and good to see so many younger faces.

[Sniper]

.....................

[ynot slow]

how fucken true,watched couple of programmes on tv one this morning on gallipoli,shit they really stuffed it up,first time i had seen the doco made which was narrated by peter eliott.interviews and opinions by both sides past down in time.had referances to col malone and others,also the fact that if the irish troups had gone further up their landing instead of having a rest,as the commanding officer was/had no respect from his people,they may well have taken the ridge without the massacre.interesting also that both factions in ireland put the problems aside and fought together.was very informing but shame lots of the scripts,documents have gone forever.also there was doco on n.z pow from battle of crete,how they were held etc,was very informative as most of the men gave their versions.

[Maha]

We do not remember their deaths. We remember the freedom they strove to protect. We do not glorify their deaths. We respect the sacrifice they made for people they would never know.

Fantastic and yet simplistic way of explaining this day, that makes so much sense

[SARGE]

sadly.. i do not see the appreciation the younger generations SHOULD have for the people in past generations who have made the ultimate sacrifice. yea .. its all good to go to the dawn service and buy the poppies .. but when is the last time you ( generalizing) have actually stopped at a rest home or at an RSA and just sat and talked to a Vet.. when have you shook an old man's hand and said " Welcome Home Soldier... Thank you"

Buckbuck, NZsarge, Sniper, Gunny, Doc, and a few others on here know what the life is like.. the loneliness of being so far from home and away from the people who love you.. the knowledge that death is 5 feet away and has your name.. seeing your mates die or get hurt. knowing at any time,your country will ask you to lay down your life to protect the ones who are at home waving signs AGAINST what you are doing..

In the US .. it is considered our DUTY and an Honor to serve. In NZ it seems to be the furthest from most peoples minds. Being in the USMC changed my life. it taught me Discipline, Respect and Humility in the respect of knowing that the lessons i learned were written in the blood of those who came before me.

Thank a Vet every day.. its because of them that you are here today and able to express your opinion.

[stelartia]

i was on my way to a service today and an older man said to me that he has stopped going because all his friends hed go with (ex service men all) have died.

we will remember them

[Scorpygirl]

Yes, we will remember them. Lest we forget, their names liveth within us.

...............................

[Manxman]

how fucken true,watched couple of programmes on tv one this morning on gallipoli,shit they really stuffed it up,first time i had seen the doco made which was narrated by peter eliott.interviews and opinions by both sides past down in time.had referances to col malone and others,also the fact that if the irish troups had gone further up their landing instead of having a rest,as the commanding officer was/had no respect from his people,they may well have taken the ridge without the massacre.interesting also that both factions in ireland put the problems aside and fought together.was very informing but shame lots of the scripts,documents have gone forever.also there was doco on n.z pow from battle of crete,how they were held etc,was very informative as most of the men gave their versions.

Agree...many mistakes are made in war - some unintended, some just downright dumb....but that's the human condition:no-one is perfect.

The biggest wartime mistake was made by one Adolf Hitler...

The biggest mistake our generation can make, is to not remember or learn from the past...

[Manxman]

I find myself pondering this often when thinking of global conflicts, sitting in my Marketing class today with my study group. Kyoko from Japan, Dominic from Germany and myself, a kiwi [all of us had a grandfather in WW2]. Got to thinking that you know, 50-60 years ago it could have been us shooting at each other, clamering over death hellbent on each others destruction - and for what?

It boggles my mind... and yet it continues to this very day

"and for what?"...I'd say that it was 'cos of some egotistic and dictatorial German, called Adolf....a clear and present threat if ever there was one.

[scumdog]

Moving stuff seeing the old grey headed ones ranks thinning each year....

The old man fought the Communist (sorry Ixion) invasion of Malaya in the late 40's through to the 60's, terible stories even in that little war..

[BarBender]

'I honour the courage and leadership of Haane Manahi, one of Te Arawa's greatest sons.

Shortly after the outbreak of the Second World War, Haane Manahi joined the 28th (Maori) Battalion. He travelled far from Ohinemutu, the village of his birth, to fight in lands far from New Zealand. Lance Sergeant Manahi fought in Greece, Crete, and North Africa. He played a pivotal role in the 1943 attack on Takrouna in Tunisia.'

[Romeo]

"and for what?"...I'd say that it was 'cos of some egotistic and dictatorial German, called Adolf....a clear and present threat if ever there was one.
Exactly, one man was able to poison everyone around him until he had the support he needed to generate a conflict which ended up sending 70+ million people to their deaths. People often say that "a dead [enemy soldier] is a good [enemy soldier]". But in reality if you're a soldier on the front lines you're not fighting for some stupid cause thought up by some stupid political leader, you're fighting for your life. When the shit hits the fan I think you'll find 99% of soldiers would rather be at home on the couch with a cold beer.

[Grahameeboy]

sadly.. i do not see the appreciation the younger generations SHOULD have for the people in past generations who have made the ultimate sacrifice. yea .. its all good to go to the dawn service and buy the poppies .. but when is the last time you ( generalizing) have actually stopped at a rest home or at an RSA and just sat and talked to a Vet.. when have you shook an old man's hand and said " Welcome Home Soldier... Thank you"

Buckbuck, NZsarge, Sniper, Gunny, Doc, and a few others on here know what the life is like.. the loneliness of being so far from home and away from the people who love you.. the knowledge that death is 5 feet away and has your name.. seeing your mates die or get hurt. knowing at any time,your country will ask you to lay down your life to protect the ones who are at home waving signs AGAINST what you are doing..

In the US .. it is considered our DUTY and an Honor to serve. In NZ it seems to be the furthest from most peoples minds. Being in the USMC changed my life. it taught me Discipline, Respect and Humility in the respect of knowing that the lessons i learned were written in the blood of those who came before me.

Thank a Vet every day.. its because of them that you are here today and able to express your opinion.

Very true Sarge although to be fair Yanks just have a different attitude so you should not compare with NZer's and I see nothing wrong in people having war furthest from their minds because it is all about choice and expressing one's opinion.

Personally I think it is sad that so many men and women lost their lives or suffered trauma that they will never forget. However, I didn't go to any parades simply because I have no links (unlike you Sarge who) to what happened, Grandfather, Uncle etc who may have died / fought in the wars. Doesn't mean I don't care because it was on my mind but guess ANZAC Day is really a time for those servicemen/women and family's to remember and to a lot of others it is just a day off work which is their right also

There are other life lessons that can be learnt from other 'walks of life' not just war.

[SARGE]

Personally I think it is sad that so many men and women lost their lives or suffered trauma that they will never forget. However, I didn't go to any parades simply because I have no links (unlike you Sarge who) to what happened, Grandfather, Uncle etc who may have died / fought in the wars. Doesn't mean I don't care because it was on my mind but guess ANZAC Day is really a time for those servicemen/women and family's to remember and to a lot of others it is just a day off work which is their right also



i think thats where you and i differ GB .. i see ANZAC Day/ US Memorial Day etc as a way of paying those families who have lost someone back.. show them you will never forget their father or brother .. see and old lady at the war memorial and give her a "Thank you for your sacrifice..I couldnt live like this if your son/ Husband/ Brother didnt die.."

[Grahameeboy]

i think thats where you and i differ GB .. i see ANZAC Day/ US Memorial Day etc as a way of paying those families who have lost someone back.. show them you will never forget their father or brother .. see and old lady at the war memorial and give her a "Thank you for your sacrifice..I couldnt live like this if your son/ Husband/ Brother didnt die.."

Thats cool............we are all different.....bit worried that that is the only way we differ though SARGE.

[Colapop]

I stopped in at the Cenotaph (right outside parliament) today. The first time I've been able to go inside and read the inscription. I cannot recall the words by heart (yet) but the thing that sticks in my mind is this this phrase...


"They fought for freedom, justice and honour"

Kinda says it all really.

[SARGE]

Thats cool............we are all different.....bit worried that that is the only way we differ though SARGE.

well GB .. i look at it this way ... ANZAC day / Memorial day isn't about LEARNING about the history of the event .. its a way to show that we appreciate those who made the history.. but that shouldn't be limited to just one day a year IMHO..

could just be the Yank in me though.. we view the Military a bit differently that your typical Kiwi..


your RNZ Army and Navy fought side by side with my Marine Corps at Guadalcanal and Singapore to stem the Japanese Imperial forces advance to Australia and NZ.. anyone who bleeds with my beloved Corps is a brother in my eyes ..


with the US troops stationed in NZ in WW2 .. we could possibly be related .. :doh:


oh... and you're a Christian and i'm a Pagan with Atheistic leanings ..:dodge: :done:

[Grahameeboy]

well GB .. i look at it this way ... ANZAC day / Memorial day isn't about LEARNING about the history of the event .. its a way to show that we appreciate those who made the history.. but that shouldn't be limited to just one day a year IMHO..

could just be the Yank in me though.. we view the Military a bit differently that your typical Kiwi..


your RNZ Army and Navy fought side by side with my Marine Corps at Guadalcanal and Singapore to stem the Japanese Imperial forces advance to Australia and NZ.. anyone who bleeds with my beloved Corps is a brother in my eyes ..

oh... and you're a Christian and i'm a Pagan with Atheistic leanings ..

Agree, and I totally respect your view, however, we just view it differently........and yep probably the Yank in you......

Guess there are a lot of things that should not be limited to one day but being a BRITISH (sorry thought I would deal with that misconception) Christian of course every day is a something to remember.

I think with me I am an emotional person and it has to be something close to me to stir things up (I think I may be opening myself up to that one but what the eck) so I just don't have the same feelings towards ANZAC day whereas I would if I had an emotional link like you...doesn't mean I don't care about it though.

[Colapop]

:Oi: Please take your discussion elsewhere - PM each other if you must... not in this thread.

[Drew]

:Oi: Please take your discussion elsewhere - PM each other if you must... not in this thread.

How is thier discussion not for this thread? It is relevent to the original topic, and not in any way derogitory.

We should remember those who faught, but we will all have a different perspective on war.

[SARGE]

How is thier discussion not for this thread? It is relevent to the original topic, and not in any way derogitory.

We should remember those who faught, but we will all have a different perspective on war.

thanks Fizzer .. i was just trying to make a point that ANZAC day has become merely a " Day off" for most Kiwi's and has lost alot of its meaning to the latest generation that has not had to go to war thanks to your forefather's sacrifices.

[Pussy]

sadly.. i do not see the appreciation the younger generations SHOULD have for the people in past generations who have made the ultimate sacrifice. yea .. its all good to go to the dawn service and buy the poppies .. but when is the last time you ( generalizing) have actually stopped at a rest home or at an RSA and just sat and talked to a Vet.. when have you shook an old man's hand and said " Welcome Home Soldier... Thank you"

Buckbuck, NZsarge, Sniper, Gunny, Doc, and a few others on here know what the life is like.. the loneliness of being so far from home and away from the people who love you.. the knowledge that death is 5 feet away and has your name.. seeing your mates die or get hurt. knowing at any time,your country will ask you to lay down your life to protect the ones who are at home waving signs AGAINST what you are doing..

In the US .. it is considered our DUTY and an Honor to serve. In NZ it seems to be the furthest from most peoples minds. Being in the USMC changed my life. it taught me Discipline, Respect and Humility in the respect of knowing that the lessons i learned were written in the blood of those who came before me.

Thank a Vet every day.. its because of them that you are here today and able to express your opinion.

Well put, Sarge. Those who know me know of my enormous respect for those who courageously did/do their duty. As I've said to you before, things would be quite different if we'd come second

[Colapop]

Not a MOD, but these 'discussions' have a habit of getting out of control round here. I was just pointing that out. And there's another thread that things like that can be discussed.

[SARGE]

Not a MOD, but these 'discussions' have a habit of getting out of control round here. I was just pointing that out. And there's another thread that things like that can be discussed.



shit man .. i take any opportunity i can to stir up the God - Botherers :innocent:

[Rhino]

Australia and New Zealand Army Corps.

We celebrate a 'day off', a holiday. How many of us remember those men and women who fought and gave their lives to protect our future. Regardless of whether they were right or wrong to fight, regardless of whether war is right or wrong, they willingly fought to protect a future they would never see. They fought to protect their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Too often we take for granted the freedom we enjoy in this country. We moan about the injustice of the law, we complain about how hard our lives are, and we complain about the ineptitude of the government. There are places that are worse, that are still wracked by violence and war.

Be thankful and remember those that have gone before. Lest we forget.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Very well said. If it wasn't for those who fought in both WWI and WWII most of us wouldn't be here. If The Allies had lost, those that were born in NZ would be speaking German, or Japanese and living in an occupied country.:gob:

[doc]

so I just don't have the same feelings towards ANZAC day whereas I would if I had an emotional link like you...doesn't mean I don't care about it though.
ANZAC day is our celebration of rememberance of your War. Your here, your invited. Thats all there is too it, you don't get a personal invite. If you attend it's appreciated no one will personally thank you its just the Kiwi way.

[Grahameeboy]

ANZAC day is our celebration of rememberance of your War. Your here, your invited. Thats all there is too it, you don't get a personal invite. If you attend it's appreciated no one will personally thank you its just the Kiwi way.

Sorry for any misunderstanding DOC...........

[Manxman]

'I honour the courage and leadership of Haane Manahi, one of Te Arawa's greatest sons.

Shortly after the outbreak of the Second World War, Haane Manahi joined the 28th (Maori) Battalion. He travelled far from Ohinemutu, the village of his birth, to fight in lands far from New Zealand. Lance Sergeant Manahi fought in Greece, Crete, and North Africa. He played a pivotal role in the 1943 attack on Takrouna in Tunisia.'

Here, here. This man was almost the textbook definition of hero and has finally been duly recognised. How many of today's 'enlightened' generation would do this?

Compare and contrast with a banner I saw on TV tonight, saying that "Conscientious objectors are the real heroes"...WTF...immature and ill-informed thought at best.

[Grahameeboy]

Devonport lost 2.5% of it's male population in the War.........makes you think.

[SARGE]

Here, here. This man was almost the textbook definition of hero and has finally been duly recognised. How many of today's 'enlightened' generation would do this?

Compare and contrast with a banner I saw on TV tonight, saying that "Conscientious objectors are the real heroes"...WTF...immature and ill-informed thought at best.

"Conscientious objectors" back in MY day were handed a medical kit and sent to work with the Recon boys.. since they didnt want to take a life .. they made the perfect Medics for the front line units ..

[nudemetalz]

totally agree, and like I said in the "other thread", a simple 7.62 injection would solve their "medical conditions"......

[klingon]

I always cry..The Last Post gets me every time!

Me too, yungatart, works every time. I can't help it.


when is the last time you ( generalizing) have actually stopped at a rest home or at an RSA and just sat and talked to a Vet..
...
at any time,your country will ask you to lay down your life to protect the ones who are at home waving signs AGAINST what you are doing..

Thank a Vet every day.. its because of them that you are here today and able to express your opinion.

Sarge, I do both. Often. I thank those, like my father, who fought in terrible wars. And I support my father in his banner-waving (metaphorical and real) when he pleads for New Zealand to stay out of unjust wars.

Not all wars are justified, not all are unjustified. Which is which? Everyone's opinion will be different and I know we will never agree.

But please don't imply that by waving signs to protest against war, that we are showing any kind of disrespect for the soldiers. The soldiers didn't make the decision to go to war. The politicians did.

My dad was an infantryman, a navy signalsman, a pilot and a parachutist. He was the bravest of the brave. And for him to stand up in his old age and protest against war has taken incredible courage. I'm as proud of him for that as I am for all the other bravery he has shown in his life.

Courage takes many forms. The courage to stand up for your beliefs in the face of overwhelming pressure is one of the rarest and greatest.

[Wasp27]

thanks Fizzer .. i was just trying to make a point that ANZAC day has become merely a " Day off" for most Kiwi's and has lost alot of its meaning to the latest generation that has not had to go to war thanks to your forefather's sacrifices.

What moved me the most at this mornings Dawn Service was the number of young folk in attendance....almost half I would think were under the age of twenty and a large number of primary school children. Overall I think there was more people there today than in previous years. Even the youngest there showed a keen interest in the procedings and the speeches this year included a very moving account from the Head Boy of Napier Boys High School (17 years old) about his Grandad and how he was killed in battle...... bugger, the screens gone blurry just thinking about it. My 2 grandsons (9 & 6 years old) were telling me all about the Anzacs and the sacrifice that they made so we could be free. Appears their respective teachers have schooled them up in the meaning of 'Anzac' and the sacrifices those brave men & women made in defence of our freedom. So take heart...I think the meaning of Anzac Day will remain in the hearts and minds of our young folk....at least in the foreseeable future.

[Ixion]

How is thier discussion not for this thread? It is relevent to the original topic, and not in any way derogitory.

We should remember those who faught, but we will all have a different perspective on war.

I'm watching it. Those who fought, and died, did so because it was their duty. Other men see their duty in different ways. Respect their sacrifice be that what it may. Ultimately it doesn't matter WHAT brave men die for. Conscientious objectors, communists, democrats, Kiwis, Yanks, Germans Japs, whatever, they're all men (and women, why does no one remember the women?) doing what they see as their duty.

I've known, spoken with, a lot of vets (latest today, Sarge) .None glorified war. Most hated it . Almost without exception every returned serviceman I've known has said that they would do anything to prevent young men having to go through what they did. And that if they had to do it again they would. Because it was their duty.

Respect those who fought.On all sides. And those who fought a more internal struggle. If I see something that's not respectful, I'll pull it.So far I haven't .

[Colapop]

Thanks Ixion. I just wanted it to remain on track and respectful was all.

[SARGE]

I'm watching it. Those who fought, and died, did so because it was their duty. Other men see their duty in different ways. Respect their sacrifice be that what it may. Ultimately it doesn't matter WHAT brave men die for. Conscientious objectors, communists, democrats, Kiwis, Yanks, Germans Japs, whatever, they're all men (and women, why does no one remember the women?) doing what they see as their duty.

I've known, spoken with, a lot of vets (latest today, Sarge) .None glorified war. Most hated it . Almost without exception every returned serviceman I've known has said that they would do anything to prevent young men having to go through what they did. And that if they had to do it again they would. Because it was their duty.

Respect those who fought.On all sides. And those who fought a more internal struggle. If I see something that's not respectful, I'll pull it.So far I haven't .



thanks X..


not only the men ( And women) who died.. but those who are affected in other ways for the rest of thier life .. My dad.. a Vietnam Vet, has suffered from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) (http://www.emedicinehealth.com/post-traumatic_stress_disorder_ptsd/article_em.htm) for decades. I, Myself , have been diagnosed with it also due to what I witnessed in Beirut and Grenada..

War ain't pretty..no matter how "small " the battle people are affected by the experience for life .. I don't know one Vet who enjoyed himself. conversely.. i don't know one vet who would shirk his responsibility and refuse to do it again. *( i am not saying that there ARE none .. I personally don't know any)

when you are a 19 year old kid and you have to live through something like that.. listening to your buddy scream, or watching his head turn into a red mist, or pulling him out from under a collapsed building and having to make more than one trip to get all of him.. sitting in a trench while the rounds wizz past your ear and hearing yourself scream in fear.. it changes you .. some people withdraw .. some go the other direction ( myself included) some unplug from reality and sit on the bed rocking back and forth for the rest of their lives..

as I mentioned .. I live with PTSD every day. I deal with nightmares..i see every one of my friends and enemies clearly in my mind to this day..a thousand sets of eyes are etched in my memory for the rest of my life.. I am on guard 24/7 when i don't need to be.. I am always assessing threats..Movie theaters, Grocery Stores.. Parks ..a loud noise sends me out of my skin... I am aggressive and sharp with people when there is no reason...

no one has a PTSD memorial though .. no one remembers the walking dead


just my .02 +GST ..

[nudemetalz]

That was a very moving post, Sarge.
Thank you for sharing.

[Macktheknife]

I think often of the sacrifices made and the multitude of lives both lost and changed forever, I honour the memory of those who have given their all and those who are still willing to do so. Lest we forget.

[Biff]

...So far I haven't .

I have.

Keep it civilised please troops.

At ease.

[ManDownUnder]

...no one remembers the walking dead...

I disagree - some of us do. You know me well enough to hear when I'm speaking the plain truth. Here it is, laid bare as thanks.

The closest I've ever been to battle was talking to a guy that's been there. The level of appreciation for what he's been through went from nearly dormant to very much alive and kicking in the space of a coffee or two.

On ANZAC day I was able to tell my kids that I know a real soldier - someone that's ben there and done that... and someone that they should get to kow any respect for the things they will learn about in time. I'd just want to introduce my kids to him... should he ever want to come for a beer.

He's a gruff old bastard from time to time, and has earned the right to be. He's got the perfect face for radio, and the perfect past to command respect.

SARGE - I am reluctant to single you out, because I know you really are one of many, and indeed arguably one of the lucky ones. I know you're not alone in this - you're just the one I know best. What's more my kids, and many others need to hear your story. They may not want to, but sure as hell need.

[Squeak the Rat]

I read the "we will remember them" verse at my grandfathers funeral. That was a hard thing to do, and now anzac day has even more meaning for me.

Rock on you old bastards.



They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

[mstriumph]

i have no wish to offend - i know that rememberance services are a comfort to many and i respect the views of those who have posted here -

but it makes me despair
about the cynicism of many attending in the 'front row of the podium' seats - the politicians (who are the clones of their predecessors who sent men and women away to die and be maimed mentally and physically for some political end or another, cloaking it in 'duty' 'adventure' 'honour' and anything else likely to sell the concept to a gulible youth) for whom the 'respect' is a yearly-enacted one hour farce and the 'tears' are of the crocodile variety.

and about the trash treatment dispensed to veterans by an uncaring system that lauded them when they went and treated them like outcasts when they returned, broken.

I come from a long line of warfare - have heard the stories, seen at first hand the ongoing havoc the experience has wrought on some of those that came back - and their loved ones ........ and the overwhelming loss to the families of those that didn't make it home.

In strange towns i never fail to stop and read the names of the fallen on war memorials and honour the sacrifice made .. and send out a silent wish for the good health and happiness of those that survived ....

but i have no respect for the sanctimonious, unfeeling, pompous, arrogant bastards that sent them nor wish to be in their proximity, not even once a year....

We MUST remember -
but everything
not least that the vast majority of those that sent men and women away to fight would probably have found another solution if they had had to go themselves ....

[Bend-it]

It's so fashionable for people to say there's another way, or war's bad etc... True, war is bad... but in so many cases, war is a response to being stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's the better of 2 evils that has been thrust upon a nation that didn't ask for it.

It's easy to make judgements in hindsight, about government decisions etc, but to the grunt who was told, and believed that he would be defending his nation, family and way of life, we owe our respect and thanks.

Faced with a similar situation, these protesters will be the very ones hiding in a hole, counting on others to defend them Edit: and then vilifying them for fighting the attackers.

[SARGE]

I am a pretty active member of the US Veterans Club here in Auckland .. Every year , we do a Memorial Day service at the Museum in the Hall of Memories.. its coming up here in a very short time .. i would love to see a few of you there that want to see how the Bastard Yanks do it .. not 5000 people, but 100 US Marines, Army, Navy and Air Force .. some as old as WW2 ( Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima) and some as young as Desert Storm.. some of us even in between "declared Wars" but still with the Honor of serving .. i will post details when they are confirmed to me.

[Big Dave]

I am a pretty active member of the US Veterans Club here in Auckland

'I'll never be over Iwo Jima.'

[SARGE]

thats right ....



pilgrim

[mstriumph]

It's so fashionable for people to say there's another way, or war's bad etc... True, war is bad... but in so many cases, war is a response to being stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's the better of 2 evils that has been thrust upon a nation that didn't ask for it.

It's easy to make judgements in hindsight, about government decisions etc, but to the grunt who was told, and believed that he would be defending his nation, family and way of life, we owe our respect and thanks.

Faced with a similar situation, these protesters will be the very ones hiding in a hole, counting on others to defend them.
I guess, due to the juxtapositioning of this post and mine, he's talking about me and i need to respond ... *sigh*
- i don't believe it to be offtopic or disrespectful to the thread or i wouldn't post.....

1... i've NEVER been fashionable - but i've always been honest [even when it's uncomfortable to be so ...]

2... UNLESS you or yours are being threatened or attacked or invaded 'rock & a hard place' arguement does not apply

3... hindsight? not likely - for example and despite how it was 'sold' to the public, most reasonable people knew from the outset that sending Australian troops into Iraq wasn't righteous under any of the arguements you have led ....... the fact that the invasion was found later to be based on lies and governmental self-interest only confirmed it .. and that isn't hindsight.

4... i'm not protesting Anzac Day per se nor meaning, in any way, to be disrespectful to those ordinary people that attend parades nor to those they honour .... and perhaps you didn't mean to imply that?........... but, if you did, silly of you to assume that people who decline to involve themselves in other people's battles are afraid or unwilling or incapable of fighting their OWN battles ....:sunny:


... but then i'm a celt - i was born stroppy.

[Deano]

I always remember my pop on Anzac Day. He only passed away a few years ago but served at Guadal (sp) Canal in WW2.

He never spoke about the war, even after I asked him once (when I found his medals in an old tin in the outside laundry/shed, while ferreting about as a kid)

It's hard to comprehend the thought of going off to war, for me at least.

[SARGE]

I guess, due to the juxtapositioning of this post and mine, he's talking about me and i need to respond ... *sigh*
- i don't believe it to be offtopic or disrespectful to the thread or i wouldn't post.....

1... i've NEVER been fashionable - but i've always been honest [even when it's uncomfortable to be so ...]

2... UNLESS you or yours are being threatened or attacked or invaded 'rock & a hard place' arguement does not apply

3... hindsight? not likely - for example and despite how it was 'sold' to the public, most reasonable people knew from the outset that sending Australian troops into Iraq wasn't righteous under any of the arguements you have led ....... the fact that the invasion was found later to be based on lies and governmental self-interest only confirmed it .. and that isn't hindsight.

4... i'm not protesting Anzac Day per se nor meaning, in any way, to be disrespectful to those ordinary people that attend parades nor to those they honour .... and perhaps you didn't mean to imply that?........... but, if you did, silly of you to assume that people who decline to involve themselves in other people's battles are afraid or unwilling or incapable of fighting their OWN battles ....:sunny:


... but then i'm a celt - i was born stroppy.




MsT.. you know i respect the hell out of you ... but at the end of the day .. Didnt Hussein (http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/saddam_hussein.htm) need to go?

[jrandom]

Didnt Hussein (http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/saddam_hussein.htm) need to go?

I'd like to discuss that, but I think it's a matter for another thread.

[mstriumph]

MsT.. you know i respect the hell out of you ... but at the end of the day .. Didnt Hussein (http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/saddam_hussein.htm) need to go?

t'was just an example, good buddy ........ first one that sprang to mind as it's still topical ........... and, for sure, the man was despicable....

look forward to arguing it out over a beer next time we are over there :yes:

[mstriumph]

I'd like to discuss that, but I think it's a matter for another thread.

yeah - sorry - you are right

my bad for bringing it up

[Bend-it]

Nevermind...

Respects to all who gave so much, apologies for my generation.

Some of us still remember that freedom isn't free.

[Phurrball]

While I have thought about the horrors of war on occasion, and the tremendous sacrifices made by others to protect what I hold dear, I have never been moved to go to a dawn ceremony - until yesterday.

At the end of last year, my last surviving grandparent shuffled of this mortal coil. As nana served in the Royal Navy's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Royal_Naval_Service">WRENS</a> I was always aware that she went to the dawn parades, although she and grandad never talked about the war.

Strange, but I feel as if the mantle has been passed, and it is important for me to go to this year's and future dawn parades, as the last of my family that served has gone.

My grandmother's wartime service was poignantly remembered at her funeral when an RSA representative read out details of her service, the last post was played after we laid poppys on her casket. I guess it struck me then that nana, and all the other everyday people who served, sacrificed so much for us all and the least I can do is to humbly reflect on the significance of their sacrifice by going to the ANZAC day dawn parades.

It was foggy at dawn out west at the Waikumete Cenotaph - which seemed appropriate for sombre reflection. I'm glad I went. I should have been going for years...

SARGE - your post on PTSD reminded me of that 1980's <a href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gary.hart/lyricsh/hardcastle.html">Paul Hardcastle track "19"</a> that brought home the realities of a war that never ended for the vets when they got home...

Food for thought that...

[Ixion]

I'd like to discuss that, but I think it's a matter for another thread.

Yes. It is. I'll leave it there, but if it sends things off on a tangent I'll remove those posts.

[pritch]

This from Masterton(?).

This guy is unreal (literally).

Among many other things he was in the Navy (a submariner no less) he was in the SAS, and was awarded a Purple Heart.
I guess you could get hurt doing parachute jumps from a submarine...

I am reasonably informed as to what ribbons belong to what, and have seen some odd things, but this takes the cake.

People of my aquaintance are really keen to find out who this :tugger: is.

Feel free to PM me if you know.:yes:

[ynot slow]

says it all,was for the anzacs,then as they all passed away it was for servicemen/women.forgive my snide remarks but is not religion the dreaded cause of most wars.also i recall my mum saying once that from the small naki town of manaia were she was raised she had 6 uncles go to ww2 and they all returned,but also in the town she knew of families who had 2 or 4 sons go and none came home,makes you wonder the luck of the draw so to speak

[SARGE]

This from Masterton(?).

This guy is unreal (literally).

Among many other things he was in the Navy (a submariner no less) he was in the SAS, and was awarded a Purple Heart.
I guess you could get hurt doing parachute jumps from a submarine...

I am reasonably informed as to what ribbons belong to what, and have seen some odd things, but this takes the cake.

People of my aquaintance are really keen to find out who this :tugger: is.

Feel free to PM me if you know.:yes:


i am dead keen to find out also ... how can a Kiwi be awarded an American Purple Heart?..(awarded for wounds received in combat).. that totally dishonors those who have earned it..

if you find out any info.. please let me know .. i am keen on helping him earn that medal

[Grahameeboy]

i am dead keen to find out also ... how can a Kiwi be awarded an American Purple Heart?..(awarded for wounds received in combat).. that totally dishonors those who have earned it..

if you find out any info.. please let me know .. i am keen on helping him earn that medal

Why can't a Kiwi be awarded an American Purple Heart?

[SARGE]

Why can't a Kiwi be awarded an American Purple Heart?

that medal is only awarded to American Servicemen wounded in combat...

[Grahameeboy]

that medal is only awarded to American Servicemen wounded in combat...

What if he fought with the American forces.......would he get the same treatment.

[SARGE]

What if he fought with the American forces.......would he get the same treatment.


i fought with the UN forces several times .. including French, German, Poms, etc .. i was not eligible for any of the awards the member nations awarded to their servicemen.. I did however receive a UN Service Medal.. ( that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee in any Starbucks in NZ)

US service Medals are generally not cross-platform.. especially at the higher levels ( Bronze and Silver Star, Purple Heart, Medal of Honor etc)

[Skyryder]

i am dead keen to find out also ... how can a Kiwi be awarded an American Purple Heart?..(awarded for wounds received in combat).. that totally dishonors those who have earned it..

if you find out any info.. please let me know .. i am keen on helping him earn that medal

SECTION XVIIL FOREIGN ORDERS AND MEDALS.

Under Regulations dated May 1911.

162. Foreign Orders and Decorations.- No subject of His Majesty shall accept a foreign Order from the Sovereign of any foreign country or wear the insignia thereof without having previously obtained His Majesty's permission to do so, signified either

1. By warrant under the Royal sign-manual, or
2. By private permission conveyed through His Majesty's private secretary.

2. Permission given by warrant under the Royal sign-manual will enable the insignia of the foreign Order to be worn at all times and without any restriction.

Private permission will only enable the insignia to be worn on the occasions specified in the terms of the letter from the King's private secretary conveying the Royal sanction.

*************

Hope that helps. Just exchange King to Queen. I understand this has not changed.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

What if he fought with the American forces.......would he get the same treatment.

He would need American citizenship. The 'Green' card is no good.

The only country that I am aware of that allows foreign nationals to serve in their interests is France.

Skyryder

[SARGE]

He would need American citizenship. The 'Green' card is no good.

The only country that I am aware of that allows foreign nationals to serve in their interests is France.

Skyryder

i DID serve with a Pommy US Marine .. born in London, lived there all his life.. held dual GB/ US Citizenship due to his father being a US Soldier stationed there during the Vietnam war

the US Military is funny about letting Foreign Nationals serve

[pritch]

For those living in the nether regions of the North Island, I see that our much decorated friend's chest features on page 1 and page 2 of the Dom Post this morning.

Sarge (and anyone else?)

A friend of mine was awarded a Purple Heart.

A US Army General came through the hospital (Bien Hoa?) and handed one to everybody in the ward. As his party left the ward there was brief but urgent conference in the doorway, during which it was presumably pointed out to the General that one of the patients was off-suite. Following this, a flunky walked back along the ward to Nick and asked for the medal back.

But he had one for a few minutes:yes:

I understand several NZ personnel were "awarded" Silver Stars by the US Army during the Vietnam war but the NZ Government didn't approve the awards. That must be a difficult letter to write gracefully...

Similarly there were awards made to NZ and Australian soldiers by the Vietnamese Government, many of these are not officially recognised.

It's all very complicated, even before we come across mental cases like our Dom Post friend.

[Grahameeboy]

He would need American citizenship. The 'Green' card is no good.

The only country that I am aware of that allows foreign nationals to serve in their interests is France.

Skyryder

So how did Blair get into Bush's book??

[Skyryder]

i DID serve with a Pommy US Marine .. born in London, lived there all his life.. held dual GB/ US Citizenship due to his father being a US Soldier stationed there during the Vietnam war

the US Military is funny about letting Foreign Nationals serve

I think dual citizen may alter elegibility just a tad but I am not aware of service in US forces with out allegiance to the constitution and flag. I'm not aware of any ceromony outside the conferal of US citizenship where this is required for an alien. Spook forces not withstanding.

However the original post queried the elegibility of Commonwealth service personal in accepting decorations from foreign governments. Yes they can but they must have permission from the Crown.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

This from Masterton(?).

This guy is unreal (literally).

Among many other things he was in the Navy (a submariner no less) he was in the SAS, and was awarded a Purple Heart.
I guess you could get hurt doing parachute jumps from a submarine...

I am reasonably informed as to what ribbons belong to what, and have seen some odd things, but this takes the cake.

People of my aquaintance are really keen to find out who this :tugger: is.

Feel free to PM me if you know.:yes:

I knew I had seen the photo somewhere. It's in the Chch Press. Story said he bought his medals off Trade Me. Lots of people pissed off. Actualy I think this act is even worse than those two protesters. I did not agree with them and what they did, and where, but this...................

Skyryder