You can't have your cake and eat it too

[Finn]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10436393

350 jobs go at Fisher & Paykel. The lefties and academics will blame F&P for being corporate pigs. The more sensible amongst us will be saddened by this and angry at what this government has done to NZ.

There's not much hope for the future of NZ. We're just too far south to grow coconuts.

[Big Dave]

There's not much hope for the future of NZ.

Utter &*@% crap. I'm here.

[Squeak the Rat]

Well there certainly isn't much hope for NZ manufacturering.

So what are we going to do for exports - ie trying to balance out the trade deficit? Agriculture sure, but thats a lot of eggs in one basket.....

[sAsLEX]

Well there certainly isn't much hope for NZ manufacturering.

So what are we going to do for exports - ie trying to balance out the trade deficit? Agriculture sure, but thats a lot of eggs in one basket.....

Icebreaker.

You need to add value to a product and do something that SE Asia cant copy.

Then there is the chance to be successful.

[ManDownUnder]

...do something that SE Asia cant copy....

While I agree... Good luck with that one.

Yup, bloody sorry to hear that, and I'm sure this isn't the thin end of the wedge... just a household name being affected so it goes to air. I work for an exporter (software) and while it hurts us, we don't have the logistics to worry about.

Shipping product is cheap.

NZ needs to get smart, take a long hard look at what we have and use it to our advantage. Cut back on the cushy lifestyle so many have come to rely on, put money into growth industry, R&D and do something with a strategic focus... not election year to election year.

Our Govt are a short sighted self serving pack of drones keen to keep themselves in a job. meanwhile 350 people (that's 2 1/2 times the number of MPs...) get laid off at a stroke and NZ loses out.

Here's a radical idea. Lay off the MPs... the lot of 'em. Put in place someone not afraid of being unpopular with the non contributing cash sucking needy, put in place some infrastructure... blah blah blah.

Yeah yeah - button pushed.

[sAsLEX]

Put in place someone not afraid of being unpopular with the non contributing cash sucking needy, put in place some infrastructure...


"Democracy" as New Zealand institutes it will see this Govt. last only a few years!

[Finn]

Utter &*@% crap. I'm here.

Excellent. You can capture the demise of NZ with your camera.

[ManDownUnder]

So how do I start my own Country?

Can I go dump a shit load of rocks and dirt somewhere the ocean's not too deep and name it after me? I'll print my own money, make my own stuff and do a Japan. Few natural resources, but cunning... add value!

IT, design... etc. complete R&D freedom aaaaaaaaaaaaaa yes. Nirvana.

Shame I know fuck all about the economics of it, but that might be to my advantage!

[sAsLEX]

So how do I start my own Country?

Can I go dump a shit load of rocks and dirt somewhere the ocean's not too deep and name it after me? I'll print my own money, make my own stuff and do a Japan. Few natural resources, but cunning... add value!

IT, design... etc. complete R&D freedom aaaaaaaaaaaaaa yes. Nirvana.

Shame I know fuck all about the economics of it, but that might be to my advantage!

The guy who invented the electronics behind Segway and the dialysis machine essentially did that, has his own Navy and everything....


North Dumpling Island
Dean Kamen's home on North Dumpling Island
Dean Kamen's home on North Dumpling Island

Kamen owns the small North Dumpling Island off the coast of Connecticut, and has "declared" the island to be an independent state. Along with its own currency in increments of Pi, and an entire government whose positions include the minister of ice cream. His home (pictured) is located on the west side of the island. An assembly of pillars resembling Stonehenge is located near the house, although its function and significance are currently unknown. Also, a windmill can be seen in the right side of the picture, presumably to provide power, although it is often observed to be locked in a stationary position. In Spring of 2006, an amphibious vehicle, similar to a WWII DUKW, was observed parked next to one of the buildings on the island.

[Finn]

You need to add value to a product and do something that SE Asia cant copy.

Advanced driving schools?

[Swoop]

Can I go dump a shit load of rocks and dirt somewhere the ocean's not too deep and name it after me?
Tricky.
Remember who owns the land/rocks and the seabed....

[ManDownUnder]

Tricky.
Remember who owns the land/rocks and the seabed....

Yeah - me... Ngati Whitefulla

[sAsLEX]

Advanced driving schools?

Health and Safety rules in the workplace?

Workers rights?

[Finn]

Can I go dump a shit load of rocks and dirt somewhere the ocean's not too deep and name it after me? I'll print my own money, make my own stuff and do a Japan. Few natural resources, but cunning... add value!

Worked in Dubai.

[Big Dave]

Excellent. You can capture the demise of NZ with your camera.

I wanted to make it a longer running joke - but nobody bit.

I only do 'happy' and there is plenty of that out there too.

[Finn]

Health and Safety rules in the workplace?

Workers rights?

Nah, they wouldn't be interested. They need to remain competitive.

[ManDownUnder]

I only do 'happy'

Don't Grumpy and Bashful feel a bit left out?

[sAsLEX]

Nah, they wouldn't be interested. They need to remain competitive.

High Corporate Tax rate?

Native People who hold the Govt. to ransom?

[Finn]

I only do 'happy' and there is plenty of that out there too.

Enough of the dwarf jokes Dave.

[The_Dover]

I had my cake and that fat prick Cowpoos ate it.

[ManDownUnder]

bring on the ANZAC DOLLAR!

oh and tax breaks for R&D... did I mention tax breaks for R&D... and investment in infrastructure... but don't forget R&D... I reckon that could pay off if you did it right... y'know R&D.

I mean R&D could do some usefuly shit too... develop new products, better ways of creating new products, might be good for the company or even the country as a hole (no - that wasn't a spelling mistake for a change)

Look at F&P... I'll bet they put some money into R&D. Probably done a good job and now... "bye bye jobs".

Shame.

... did I mention R&D?

[ManDownUnder]

I had my cake and that fat prick Cowpoos ate it.

You and I both now that was no cake. He was stoned out of his tree and earned his KB handle the hard way.

[The_Dover]

Icebreaker.

You need to add value to a product and do something that SE Asia cant copy.

Then there is the chance to be successful.

Engrish Rangridge Schoo?

[ManDownUnder]

Enough of the dwarf jokes Dave.

don't like the competition?

[sAsLEX]

... did I mention R&D?

Then you develop a world leading technology and the Greens have a conniption fit as it "might" be used in a bomb.

No point really you cant win.


Engrish Rangridge Schoo?

Which bit don't you understand?

[cowpoos]

I had my cake and that fat prick Cowpoos ate it.
was good cake!

[ManDownUnder]

Then you develop a world leading technology and the Greens have a conniption fit as it "might" be used in a bomb.

No point really you cant win.

Sure there is... make sure it's applicable to a bomb... then find someone to test it on.... You'd only need to take out the first one and all the hippies would be running fro the hills. Unless Sarge got them first.

[Big Dave]

Don't Grumpy and Bashful feel a bit left out?

I'm sleeping beauty???
More like Sleeping Late.

[Big Dave]

Enough of the dwarf jokes Dave.

Somebody would have to put you up to it.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm sleeping beauty???

Oh sorry - thought you were a dwarf lovin' Gay Boi... you're not Dover's alter ego then?

[Big Dave]

Oh sorry - thought you were a dwarf lovin' Gay Boi... you're not Dover's alter ego then?

Lately I charge to alter anything. (advertising joke)

[Hitcher]

Icebreaker.

It's all made in China. Read the garment labels.

[NighthawkNZ]

Utter &*@% crap. I'm here.

Like he said... not much hope at all :dodge:

[Finn]

Interesting views...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10436411

[Grahameeboy]

Advanced driving schools?

That's rich considering the general standard of Kiwi's driving. Asians hardly have a role model.

[Finn]

That's rich considering the general standard of Kiwi's driving. Asians hardly have a role model.

You know darling, you're actually right.

[Big Dave]

Like he said... not much hope at all :dodge:

When I take over it's the Gulag for you boyo. You, Scumdog (he volunteered) and the Mutton birds.

[Grahameeboy]

It is sad but you cannot just blame the Govt each time jobs are lost...it's a 2 way thing.

Even if the Govt helped out you can be sure the Asian Market would react so job losses would be simply delayed.

In the UK there are immigrant builders who will do the work for a fraction of what a British builder will do the job for and they cannot compete without cutting off their own noses.

F&P get 80% of their revenue from overseas sales so things were in the balance anyway with only 20% of their sales revenue from NZ.

[MisterD]

Look at F&P... I'll bet they put some money into R&D. Probably done a good job and now... "bye bye jobs".

Shame.

... did I mention R&D?

Engineering's all staying here, just the metal bending and assembly that's gone to Thailand....NZ has the cheapest Engineers in the world apparently.

IMO we're finally seeing that Labour don't have a fricken CLUE how to run an economy.. unfortunately that's the horse gone, will the last person to leave please shut the stable door after they turn out the lights.

[Toaster]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10436393

There's not much hope for the future of NZ. We're just too far south to grow coconuts.

You not been to south Auckland lately Finn?

Oh but this tree-hugging lefty govt has done so well by stifling wage growth so we can't afford homes that immigrants, overseas investors or the wealthy buy up, taxing us to death then adding on more taxes and levies, and socially re-engineering the country away from good old hard working kiwis into a bunch of state dependant self-interested metrosexuals.

Where are our tax cuts - gone to govt spending on red-tape and inefficiency - makes the dole queue shorter which makes them MP's look good - give em a payrise!... oh, I see they already did that themselves.

[The_Dover]

Engineering's all staying here, just the metal bending and assembly that's gone to Thailand....NZ has the cheapest Engineers in the world apparently.

well then, that's 350 odd coconuts we can send back to the islands.

shame they were the ones with jobs.

[Grahameeboy]

You not been to south Auckland lately Finn?

Oh but this tree-hugging lefty govt has done so well by stifling wage growth so we can't afford homes that immigrants, overseas investors or the wealthy buy up, taxing us to death then adding on more taxes and levies, and socially re-engineering the country away from good old hard working kiwis into a bunch of state dependant self-interested metrosexuals.

Where are our tax cuts - gone to govt spending on red-tape and inefficiency - makes the dole queue shorter which makes them MP's look good - give em a payrise!... oh, I see they already did that themselves.

Working for Family's Tax Credits is one way.........I get half my tax back.......oopsss..surely not a POSITIVE....

[Finn]

Working for Family's Tax Credits is one way.........I get half my tax back.......oopsss..surely not a POSITIVE....

And who pays for that?

[Grahameeboy]

You not been to south Auckland lately Finn?




All I know is he seems to be leaning to the South!!!!

[Grahameeboy]

And who pays for that?

The Govt and I Guess I do if I get half my tax back.............

[Karma]

Working for Family's Tax Credits is one way.........I get half my tax back.......oopsss..surely not a POSITIVE....


Only if you have kids...

[The_Dover]

Working for Family's Tax Credits is one way.........I get half my tax back.......oopsss..surely not a POSITIVE....

half your tax? do you earn fifty bucks a week?

[Grahameeboy]

Only if you have kids...

It is an example of Tax breaks. Suspect most (not all I admit) people who could do with tax breaks are those with kids would you say?

[Grahameeboy]

half your tax? do you earn fifty bucks a week?

What?????????????????????????

[Karma]

It is an example of Tax breaks. Suspect most (not all I admit) people who could do with tax breaks are those with kids would you say?


You have kids because you choose to, if you can't afford them then don't have them.

I'm going to make a choice to own a big 4x4, and expect my tax break as well because I'll need it to keep it running.

[Grahameeboy]

You have kids because you choose to, if you can't afford them then don't have them.

I'm going to make a choice to own a big 4x4, and expect my tax break as well because I'll need it to keep it running.

A brash statement when you do not know my personal circumstances..:angry:

[Karma]

A brash statement when you do not know my personal circumstances..:angry:

You're assuming i'm referring to you directly, I neither know nor care for your circumstances, my point was simply that there is a load of stuff that constitutes tax breaks for families when that is merely a lifestyle choice.

Where's the tax breaks for riding a motorbike? Or the breaks for driving a nice car?

[ManDownUnder]

Where's the tax breaks for riding a motorbike? Or the breaks for driving a nice car?

Demonstrate either of those things contributes to the economy in general and I'll be right behind it....

... or in other words - company vehicles!

[Toaster]

Working for Family's Tax Credits is one way.........I get half my tax back.......oopsss..surely not a POSITIVE....

I'd rather get a tax cut so they dont have to employ 100 IRD employees to fart around with it and send me back the little bit they have left after it gets spent on paperwork and red-tape. It is a stupid system of taking from us and then spending some of it only to give less of it back.

There is only 2 things you can do with money - spend or save and both are taxed anyway.

[Grahameeboy]

You're assuming i'm referring to you directly, I neither know nor care for your circumstances, my point was simply that there is a load of stuff that constitutes tax breaks for families when that is merely a lifestyle choice.

Where's the tax breaks for riding a motorbike? Or the breaks for driving a nice car?

You = Singular hence assumption but no problem.

Given the high rate of divorce and kids living with just 1 parent I would say that this may not always be a lifestyle choice for many so the tax breaks help them to care for their kids.

[Grahameeboy]

I'd rather get a tax cut so they dont have to employ 100 IRD employees to fart around with it and send me back the little bit they have left after it gets spent on paperwork and red-tape. It is a stupid system of taking from us and then spending some of it only to give less of it back.

There is only 2 things you can do with money - spend or save and both are taxed anyway.

Well I get half my tax back so not complaining but you have a point.

[pritch]

Here's a radical idea. Lay off the MPs... the lot of 'em.

Yeah! Or we could all go on the Maori roll, then there'd only be six MPs:bs:

[jrandom]

You have kids because you choose to, if you can't afford them then don't have them.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. Far too many people rushing into parenthood these days. What this country needs is a stiff dose of personal responsibility.

[Big Dave]

Go fuck yourself.

Not a good tag for a pro procreativity bit. Won't work if you do it that way.

[Finn]

A brash statement when you do not know my personal circumstances..:angry:

What, they give you more for being gay?

[Grahameeboy]

What, they give you more for being gay?

Sensible answers on a postcard please..............

[The_Dover]

What, they give you more for being gay?

so in essence he has his cock and eats it?

[Grahameeboy]

so in essence he has his cock and eats it?

Green bling for that Ben.......

[Skyryder]

Not a good tag for a pro procreativity bit. Won't work if you do it that way.

And I'll be unemployed.

[Ixion]

It is sad but you cannot just blame the Govt each time jobs are lost...it's a 2 way thing.

F&P get 80% of their revenue from overseas sales so things were in the balance anyway with only 20% of their sales revenue from NZ.

Of course you can blame the government. It's their job to look after this country not see our jobs go off shore. And how is it a two way thing?

And if F&P are not interested in being an NZ company anymore (and Woolf Fisher would turn in his grave at that notion, he was a decent bastard - for a boss), then tell them to piss off, and slap some trade restrictions on imports so a new , genuine NZ company can have a go. And by the way, those patents, they go to the new company.

What is needed is to have a deal where GST on NZ mae stuff is 6% and GST on imported stuff is 25%. Then we'd see jobs coming back.

[Big Dave]

What is needed is to have a deal where GST on NZ mae stuff is 6% and GST on imported stuff is 25%. Then we'd see jobs coming back.

ooooh - i like that - after 2 bottles of bubbly with the old cheese anyway.

[Ixion]

Oh. I left out the best bit.

Companies that aren't in the retail trade don't really care what the GST rate is - they just claim it back whatever it is. So, the deal is, GST input tax credits are always at the present 12.5% rate. Regardless of what the output rate is.

Should overall be roughy neutral for government revenue - less on some things, more on others.

Basic goods, food etc are weighted toward local manufacture , so it should be beneficial to the low paid, who spend a greater percentage of their income on basics.

And it encourages local business to find alternatives to imported goods. Without actually breaking them if they can't or won't.

And it's legal under international trade rules.

[Whynot]

Engineering's all staying here, just the metal bending and assembly that's gone to Thailand....NZ has the cheapest Engineers in the world apparently.

thats why most of them leave ....

[sAsLEX]

Oh. I left out the best bit.

Companies that aren't in the retail trade don't really care what the GST rate is - they just claim it back whatever it is. So, the deal is, GST input tax credits are always at the present 12.5% rate. Regardless of what the output rate is.

Should overall be roughy neutral for government revenue - less on some things, more on others.

Basic goods, food etc are weighted toward local manufacture , so it should be beneficial to the low paid, who spend a greater percentage of their income on basics.

And it encourages local business to find alternatives to imported goods. Without actually breaking them if they can't or won't.

And it's legal under international trade rules.

But what about things like Pickles that aren't produced in large volumes here? Then we as the consumer get stung not through lack of trying to support NZ business but because we are too small to produce everything!

[Ixion]

If they aren't produced here now it's because of lack of government support. As it happens, when I was young I worked in a large New Zealand pickle factory. We made every type of pickle there was. And in very large volumes, quite sufficent to supply the whole of New Zealand. I myself am a qualified pickler. There is no reason why any required pickle cannot be made in New Zealand in whatever quantity may be desired.

Rest assured. There will be no shortage of pickles.

[Big Dave]

But what about things like Pickles that aren't produced in large volumes here? Then we as the consumer get stung not through lack of trying to support NZ business but because we are too small to produce everything!

Pickles? What's with 'Pickles'?

[Ixion]

He means preserves and relishes. And chutneys. Though the latter are not strictly a pickle.

[Whynot]

what the hell?
i thought this thread was about washing machines :mellow:

[sAsLEX]

Pickles? What's with 'Pickles'?


He means preserves and relishes. And chutneys. Though the latter are not strictly a pickle.

Actually I meant the kind of pickle you get in a Cheeseburger, Gherkin maybe?

[Ixion]

They're preserves. They should be gherkins, but in fact Mcds are cheap and what they use are actually immature cucumbers. A nasty practice that no true Pickler would stoop to. The sort of thing that Nichol's Pickles would have done. We can produce all the gherkins (and dills , and pickled onions, and cocktail ones, and bread-and-butter cucumbers etc) that your heart could desire

[Ixion]

what the hell?
i thought this thread was about washing machines :mellow:

According to the thread title, it's about cake. Pickles are closer to cake than washing machines are.

[jrandom]

We can produce all the gherkins (and dills , and pickled onions, and cocktail ones, and bread-and-butter cucumbers etc) that your heart could desire

Mmmm. Gherkins. Pickled onions. Cowcumber sammidges.

Food of the gods.

On another note, what's with all the general bemoaning of NZ turning into a third-world country if we're so bloody keen to hang onto the third-world jobs?

If our low-end labour force was happy to live as crappily as the labour in Thailand or southern China does, then I'm sure we could compete just fine and dandy.

Since they aren't happy to live that way, it kinda looks like they'll have to learn how to add a bit more value in return for the lifestyle they seem to feel entitled to.

Seems like the bitching on this thread would have us turn NZ into France, using up huge chunks of our GDP subsidising dead-end jobs and inefficient industries.

[jonbuoy]

How is it then that some countries still manage to have manufacturing - France still churns out cars by the thousands - even Sweden has Saab and thats one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, France, Germany and Holland still have their ship yards. If they are getting government subsidies its still better than paying thousands of people to sit at home on their backsides all day. Or maybe they find a way to work smarter and cut costs?

[jrandom]

... maybe they find a way to work smarter and cut costs?

You are speaking of companies on the ragged bleeding edge of unprofitability, held there in the vice-like grip of national trade unions.

Also, bear in mind that when real skill is required in industrial assembly, those jobs cannot be exported to banana republics. Note that F&P isn't, for example, sending its Dish Drawer manufacturing overseas - those units are just too fiddly.

Places like Thailand can supply only the most brain-dead sort of unskilled labour, and there are many sad tales out there of companies that foolishly thought differently.

[sAsLEX]

How is it then that some countries still manage to have manufacturing - France still churns out cars by the thousands - even Sweden has Saab and thats one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, France, Germany and Holland still have their ship yards. If they are getting government subsidies its still better than paying thousands of people to sit at home on their backsides all day. Or maybe they find a way to work smarter and cut costs?

More and more ships are going to the big Asian companies like Hyundai and the other Korean ones...... hell where did we get the latest Navy ship built?

[jrandom]

Hyundai...

South Korea definitely no longer counts as a Third World supplier of unskilled labour.

[Big Dave]

Places like Thailand can supply only the most brain-dead sort of unskilled labour, and there are many sad tales out there of companies that foolishly thought differently.

I read that Triumph are building Bonnevilles there now. Will be interesting to see how they fare.

[Grahameeboy]

Of course you can blame the government. It's their job to look after this country not see our jobs go off shore. And how is it a two way thing?

And if F&P are not interested in being an NZ company anymore (and Woolf Fisher would turn in his grave at that notion, he was a decent bastard - for a boss), then tell them to piss off, and slap some trade restrictions on imports so a new , genuine NZ company can have a go. And by the way, those patents, they go to the new company.

What is needed is to have a deal where GST on NZ mae stuff is 6% and GST on imported stuff is 25%. Then we'd see jobs coming back.

Sorry disagree..........Provenco is a perfect example of overseas trade and have just cut a deal with a supplier in the UK and this was without help from the Govt so it is also down to the Company too......heard of marketing.........you cannot expect the Govt to bail companies out if they struggle.......competition is nothing new globally.

Imports also help provide jobs and money too............we are a small nation and can only export so much.

[jonbuoy]

More and more ships are going to the big Asian companies like Hyundai and the other Korean ones...... hell where did we get the latest Navy ship built?

MRV was Holland and the others spread between AUS and NZ. Specialised or top end stuff still seems to be Germany/Holland/Japan/Norway/France.

[lb99]

Only if you have kids...

theres the problem right there.

The country needs kids, lots of em, they are the taxpayers of the future.
Too many people (some parents included) are self absorbed in the relentless pursuit of more money, often at the expense of the family they are trying to cultivate.
We need to concentrate on bringing up our kids with the morals and ethics that will make them a decent contribution to society in the future, and if that means someone in the family unit needs to quit work to get those kids out of childcare where they are currently ignored/running riot/being brainwashed into patronising PC fluffy bunnies, and be at home to train them in the way our parents trained us, then so be it, tighten your belt, and live on a lower income.

I have 4 kids, and a mortgatge, and between us my wife and I earn less than 60k, and while we do appreciate the return of some of our tax via WFF, we were doing ok without it, our kids are healthy, smart, and under control.
WFF will not last forever, it can't, so what we have done with ours is to make sure that we use it to get as far ahead as possible in readyness for the day that we have a sudden drop in our income due to WFF being cancelled, it was only a vote buying scheme anyway, what pisses me off is the people who refuse to make do with the deal they have earned/been given and relentlessly demand more for less from a society that simply cannot sustain it in the long term, when WFF goes those people are totally fucked.

Being poor is not so bad, but being unhappy sucks.

[Grahameeboy]

theres the problem right there.

The country needs kids, lots of em, they are the taxpayers of the future.
Too many people (some parents included) are self absorbed in the relentless pursuit of more money, often at the expense of the family they are trying to cultivate.
We need to concentrate on bringing up our kids with the morals and ethics that will make them a decent contribution to society in the future, and if that means someone in the family unit needs to quit work to get those kids out of childcare where they are currently ignored/running riot/being brainwashed into patronising PC fluffy bunnies, and be at home to train them in the way our parents trained us, then so be it, tighten your belt, and live on a lower income.

I have 4 kids, and a mortgatge, and between us my wife and I earn less than 60k, and while we do appreciate the return of some of our tax via WFF, we were doing ok without it, our kids are healthy, smart, and under control.
WFF will not last forever, it can't, so what we have done with ours is to make sure that we use it to get as far ahead as possible in readyness for the day that we have a sudden drop in our income due to WFF being cancelled, it was only a vote buying scheme anyway, what pisses me off is the people who refuse to make do with the deal they have earned/been given and relentlessly demand more for less from a society that simply cannot sustain it in the long term, when WFF goes those people are totally fucked.

Being poor is not so bad, but being unhappy sucks.

Good post...............I only claimed WWF because I don't feel right applying for other things I am entitled which I class as 'Benefits' if you know what I mean.

In my circumstances it helps as I have equal shared custody of my disabled Daughter so need a flexible hours job with a firm who understand my situation but pay not great and need to stay in the area for various reasons..schooling as my x lives in Devonport plus Devonport is ideal for Nats for getting around and having some independance...I also rent a room which is tax free to help...
you just need to do what is needed...

[sAsLEX]

MRV was Holland and the others spread between AUS and NZ. Specialised or top end stuff still seems to be Germany/Holland/Japan/Norway/France.

Watching the building of the new 45s over here in UK they are going to be a tasty bit of kit, and the new carriers are going to be built here as well...... whats that a govt fully supporting its own nation by creating huge industry when they could get it done cheaper in xxxxx?

[Grahameeboy]

Watching the building of the new 45s over here in UK they are going to be a tasty bit of kit, and the new carriers are going to be built here as well...... whats that a govt fully supporting its own nation by creating huge industry when they could get it done cheaper in xxxxx?

Understand your point, however, they probably do not have the expertise over here to build Frigates.....could be wrong....UK has a reputation as a boat builder.............what does NZ have a reputation as?

Like Fishers, when they started washing machines etc were a new thing but now 70 years later they are an need to have accessory so everyone is making them.....I mean here we are moaning that we do are losing out but on the other side of the coin, why shouldn't Asian countries seize opportunities.....

[MisterD]

theres the problem right there.

The country needs kids, lots of em, they are the taxpayers of the future.

Sort of. In reality taxpayers' kids are the tax payers of the future, beneficiaries breed guess what...unfortunately the latter are popping them out like rabbits, many of the former are staying childless.

[lb99]

Sort of. In reality taxpayers' kids are the tax payers of the future, beneficiaries breed guess what...unfortunately the latter are popping them out like rabbits, many of the former are staying childless.

uhh, yeah thats what I was trying to say, but I omitted to state what we are all thinking, cheers
:Punk:

[Grahameeboy]

Sort of. In reality taxpayers' kids are the tax payers of the future, beneficiaries breed guess what...unfortunately the latter are popping them out like rabbits, many of the former are staying childless.

Yep, one just popped out.....oh...there is another..

You are right though.

[Street Gerbil]

You can't have your cake and eat it too
Sorry for being such a smartass but yes you can. You can't have the opposite:
"eat your cake and have it too" . :-)

[sAsLEX]

Understand your point, however, they probably do not have the expertise over here to build Frigates.....could be wrong....UK has a reputation as a boat builder.............what does NZ have a reputation as?

Like Fishers, when they started washing machines etc were a new thing but now 70 years later they are an need to have accessory so everyone is making them.....I mean here we are moaning that we do are losing out but on the other side of the coin, why shouldn't Asian countries seize opportunities.....

Aren't we world renowned for our boat building, specifically our super yachts at present. VT Fitzroy was formed to put a bid in for the Protector fleet, a collaboration between Vosper Thornycroft, a big brittish ship building comp, and Fitzroy Engineering a New Plymouth heavy engineering company. But no suprises Tenix won the tender.

VTF now work the dockyards at Denvonport.

[eatu4dinner]

well then, that's 350 odd coconuts we can send back to the islands.

shame they were the ones with jobs.


Bro so where are you from? Shall we send you back from where you came from?:angry:

[The_Dover]

Bro so where are you from? Shall we send you back from where you came from?:angry:

I'm from the fuckin islands. Bro.

But I've got a job.

[Ixion]

No-one can FIND those Godforsaken islands that *you* came from. We suspect they've totally disappeared beneath the ocean, otherwise we'd have sent you back there long ago.

[Grahameeboy]

Aren't we world renowned for our boat building, specifically our super yachts at present. VT Fitzroy was formed to put a bid in for the Protector fleet, a collaboration between Vosper Thornycroft, a big brittish ship building comp, and Fitzroy Engineering a New Plymouth heavy engineering company. But no suprises Tenix won the tender.

VTF now work the dockyards at Denvonport.

Only since the America's Cup............

[Brett]

Yes indeed, another sad example of what happens when the lefties get too strong a hold on things. They all sprout on about raising taxes on Companies to fund this and that. No wonder the poor buggers all go offshore where it is so much cheaper to operate.

[Forest]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10436393

350 jobs go at Fisher & Paykel. The lefties and academics will blame F&P for being corporate pigs. The more sensible amongst us will be saddened by this and angry at what this government has done to NZ.

There's not much hope for the future of NZ. We're just too far south to grow coconuts.

The unemployment rate is currently at historic lows.

Those F&P people will have new jobs in no time.

[Ixion]

No, they won't . McJobs, maybe. But those are skilled workers.

[Forest]

No, they won't . McJobs, maybe. But those are skilled workers.

Yes they will.

NZ currently has the lowest unemployment rate in the developed world. This is not an opinion, this is fact.

[Finn]

The unemployment rate is currently at historic lows.

Those F&P people will have new jobs in no time.

Really? And why is that Mr Gump?

[jonbuoy]

Understand your point, however, they probably do not have the expertise over here to build Frigates.....could be wrong....UK has a reputation as a boat builder.............what does NZ have a reputation as?

Like Fishers, when they started washing machines etc were a new thing but now 70 years later they are an need to have accessory so everyone is making them.....I mean here we are moaning that we do are losing out but on the other side of the coin, why shouldn't Asian countries seize opportunities.....

I think they could have built it here - not as quickly as the Dutch but could have been done. Drydock at Devonport isn't big enough for it - but they could have built one somewhere else and picked up more work afterwards for refits eventually it would have paid for itself.

[Finn]

Aren't we world renowned for our boat building

Note world renowned, but we have our place. Our production process is very efficient with little wastage and we produce very good quality. The downside is we are more expensive, quite slow and we don't have experience building the "big" ones.

[avgas]

And who pays for that?
The people who dont pay anything right now. You know, the ones that get money from the govt - then moan cos they actually get less after tax.
"Dat f'ing governtent takes da money off us!"
ITS NOT YOURS DUMBASS!!!

[Grahameeboy]

No, they won't . McJobs, maybe. But those are skilled workers.

The only constant is change.