What the hell?

[ekspatriat]

Im a Pom fresh over and have heard of the 'Riding too close to the Centre of the Road' charge that exists here. What the F@#% is that? The UK Police motorcycle training code specifically encourages you to ride approx 1 foot to the left of the road centre in normal conditions. Am i to understand the powers that be in this country wish us to know that this practice is abhorrent and we will be arrested and executed if we dare use safe riding methods. Oh and by the way arent car drivers guilty of this 100% of the time on standard carriageways?

[Grahameeboy]

It is a recent thing I think...yeah a bit dumb cause I always ride closer to the centre line as I am more visible (if that were possible here) and have more room to avoid a hazard.

The other week I was going to work....a Waste Collection truck did a uee and a Waste Truck coming the other way decided to turn in front to go back the other way...yes I know....and if I had been riding a foot from the kerb, I would not have been able to avoid the truck.

And you wonder why driving over here is puzzling....

[jtzzr]

Crikey never heard of that one ,now I`m curious ,and wander how you would pass another vehicle without crossing the center-line ?I personally think it`s untrue , but I have been wrong before.

[Grahameeboy]

'ere you go geezer

"You must ride on the road - you can't ride on the footpath or a cycle path. Keep as far left as you can. You may use bus lanes, as long as there isn't a sign forbidding this"

[Babelfish]

Rules? for the road? Really? :mellow:

On a more serious note, I'd be surprised if anyone was pulled on this...the rozzer would have to be a complete tw@. Has anyone on here run into an actual example of its use? I wonder if its been put in place to aid in reckless driving charges where position to the centre has been a factor?

[James Deuce]

It's a failing to keep left charge if they decide to do you, and this issue has been discussed at length. Fundamentally, the LTSA revised the law and then without accepting blame went, "Oh yeah, that's right, we didn't mean motorcycles had to ride in the gutter."

Problem is you can still get done for failing to keep left by any cop who takes exception to you, even if you weren't doing anything wrong. I wouldn't expect a cop who rides to even look twice, but cops who've never been on a bike may have a different opinion.

[SlashWylde]

It's because you are in the Southern Hemisphere now. Has to do with the Coriolis Effect, you know, the direction water swirls down drains and all that... Unfortunately we are over-legislated in this country so the government had to write it into law to 'protect us' from ourselves.

Don't worry about it dude. Just ride where you think is safe according to the conditions.

Which reminds me, there's a public road safety message you should know about which gets played a lot on the radio. It goes something like this:

"Ride to the conditions, when they change just take some speed".

[ekspatriat]

Hey heard that one....So if Im riding at say 30 in the pissing rain and it dries up and gets all nice and sunny.......do I reduce my speed cos the conditions changed??????????? (Pratty advert that one eh!)

[James Deuce]

Excellent, you have the "correct" sense of humour to function both on KB and in NZ.

[marty]

5 posts - all whinges? you'll fit in perfect :)

[Edbear]

I find that the middle of the lane tends to be less bumpy as one is out of the wheel tracks. Never had a cop bat an eye at wherever I was in my lane but have heard of someone being done for this. Not sure why,maybe they upset the cop?

[Mystery]

Hi ekspatriat

From the NZ Motorcycle Road Code

Where is the best place to position your motorcycle on the road whilst riding?

a. In the centre of the road
b. In the postion normally taken up by the right wheels of a car
c. As close to the left as possible

The correct answer is "b. In the postion normally taken up by the right wheels of a car"

[rainman]

I'm confused.... my Road Code for Motorcyclists 2006 says:

"You can use your position on the road to make sure others can see you, by riding in the position taken up by the right-hand wheels of the vehicle ahead." p30.

:whocares:

[rainman]

The correct answer is ...

Damn, beat me to it.

[JimO]

i remember seeing a docco back in the 80s last century about training traffic cops on bikes and their mantra was ride on the left of the left

[James Deuce]

Hi ekspatriat

From the NZ Motorcycle Road Code

Where is the best place to position your motorcycle on the road whilst riding?

a. In the centre of the road
b. In the postion normally taken up by the right wheels of a car
c. As close to the left as possible

The correct answer is "b. In the postion normally taken up by the right wheels of a car"

Sorry, it ISN'T anymore.

The Road Code for Motorcyclists is out of date thanks to a law change last year designed to stop people hogging the "fast" lane on the motorway.

The answer has been mandated as c.

This issue was publicised by BRONZ last year and discussed at length on KB

[rwh]

WTF?

Anybody got a reference for this?

Will search KB (don't remember it; when was it?), but also the legislation.

Actually, searching KB is hard, with just a keyword of 'left' and perhaps 'law'

Richard

[Krusti]

Sorry, it ISN'T anymore.

The Road Code for Motorcyclists is out of date thanks to a law change last year designed to stop people hogging the "fast" lane on the motorway.

The answer has been mandated as c.

This issue was publicised by BRONZ last year and discussed at length on KB

Although the correct answer is still b for those about to sit their licence test.:yes:

[James Deuce]

That would be an interesting one to debate.

The law change came into effect at the same time as the "new" roundabout indication laws, so it would probably be enforced as well as those have been.

[rwh]

The law change came into effect at the same time as the "new" roundabout indication laws, so it would probably be enforced as well as those have been.


Really? That's before I sat any tests; before I even bought my Road Code I think ... TBH I fail to see the point of an 'Official Road Code' that we can't trust - and that doesn't even reference the legislation it attempts to resemble.

Richard

[dogsnbikes]

I ride where the cage infront of me can see me in his mirrors.......

riding on the left means I'm pulling over or making room for a faster bike approaching from behind

I ride where I feel safe........and it would help if they focused more on the cages that travel the centre line and these bloody hummbees dont leave much room on the road either:angry:

[Sanx]

I'd be surprised if anyone was pulled on this...the rozzer would have to be a complete tw@.

Apologies to the 3.5 traffic cops that don't fit this stereotype...

[gixermike]

I'll add this to the list of taxable things i'll get charged for...wonder if I can set up a direct debit to the police....say $80 / month...

I use both sides of the road when approaching left hand corners to see round the corner (far enough in advance to see if someone is in the oncoming lane..or not at all if yellow lines etc), and get back in my lane as the view decreases or someone appears the other way...just as taught by the police (Uk)to keep me alive.....also allows overtaking around long left hand bends coz you can see round them.....so they become straights again!! It's described in their manual which is available online....but mackthe knife has my copy at the moment if anyone wants it.

Now, to set up the direct debit.......

[Ixion]

Do you have a link for that manual ?

[Grub]

The Road Code for Motorcyclists is out of date thanks to a law change last year designed to stop people hogging the "fast" lane on the motorway.

He's right. There was a test case some years ago of a nana doing 65 in the right lane of the motorway and causing all sorts of probs. A cop ticketted them for failing to keep left.

The Court of Appeal (I think) decreed that the motorist *was* keeping left - in his lane. Therefore no offence was committed. The law has now been changed and that defense is now crappola

[Swoop]

Which reminds me, there's a public road safety message you should know about which gets played a lot on the radio. It goes something like this:

"Ride to the conditions, when they change just take some speed".
Incorrect. The jingle is "DRIVE to the conditions...".
This is an advert for cagers and bikes are exempt. :blip:

[gixermike]

Do you have a link for that manual ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Roadcraft-Police-Riders-Handbook/dp/011341143X/ref=sr_1_1/026-2853421-6694007?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177904986&sr=1-1

it's called 'Motorcycle roadcraft'

Mack has my copy, if you wanna borrow it...has diagrams, but not 100% usefull without the instruction.

[ekspatriat]

What manual do Kiwi bike cops ride from??

[The Stranger]

Sorry, it ISN'T anymore.

The Road Code for Motorcyclists is out of date thanks to a law change last year designed to stop people hogging the "fast" lane on the motorway.

The answer has been mandated as c.

This issue was publicised by BRONZ last year and discussed at length on KB

BRONZ does have an official letter (would have to check again whom it is from exactly, I seem to recall it may have been the minister for transport) stating that the right wheel track is considered as far to the left as practible for a motorcycle. So it would make an interesting test case as common sense, the road code and the minister all concur.

[rwh]

He's right. There was a test case some years ago of a nana doing 65 in the right lane of the motorway and causing all sorts of probs. A cop ticketted them for failing to keep left.

The Court of Appeal (I think) decreed that the motorist *was* keeping left - in his lane. Therefore no offence was committed. The law has now been changed and that defense is now crappola

That sounds odd. How long ago? As long as I can remember (I've been driving 20 years), it's been that you must not use the right lane if it would obstruct other traffic - which would have been the an offence in this case.

On the other hand, also for as long as I can remember, the road code has said that keeping left means keeping as far left as practicable on an unlaned road, and keeping entirely within your lane (on the left hand side of the road) when it's laned.

The bit about keeping to the left of your lane - well this is about the first I've heard of it, other than that it keeps cropping up in lanesplitting threads (cages should keep left in their lane so I can split down the right).

I'm still hoping someone can post a link to the actual law.

Richard

[The Pastor]

Dude, welcome to nz traffic police, the current dick-tater ship in power in NZ. They will ticket you for what ever reason they want, just too keep up crime numbers down.

"we issued this many tickets so there fore we stopped that much crime"

[Grub]

Nah it wasn't right ... that's why, as Jim said, they had to change the law.

[Grub]

will ticket you for what ever reason they want,

Surprise, surprise ... they ticket people breaking the law. No law-breakers, no tickets

Cool huh

[The Pastor]

Surprise, surprise ... they ticket people breaking the law. No law-breakers, no tickets

Cool huh

What, you mean cops never ever pull over people just for fun? Don't give out tickets even though you were only doing 90 in a 100 zone? Get out of here man, what have you been smoking?

[Grub]

Get out of here man, what have you been smoking?

Clearly not the stuff that you have which suppresses reality

[Ixion]

This is the actual villain


Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004
Part 2 Roads (r 2.1 to r 2.14)
Lanes
2.1 Keeping left

(1)A driver, when driving, must at all times drive as near as practicable to the left side of the roadway unless this rule otherwise provides.
(2)If a driver's speed, when driving, is such as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic, that driver must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, move the vehicle as far as practicable to the left side of the roadway when this is necessary to allow following traffic to pass.
(3)A driver may drive in the right lane in the direction of travel when driving on a multi-lane road if—
(a)the driver is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving the prescribed signal of that driver's intention to turn right; or
(b)the driver is passing; or
(c)the left lane is unavailable to the driver; or
(d)the driver is required by any provision of this rule to drive in the right lane; or
(e)a variable lane control downward-facing arrow sign indicates that the driver must drive in the right lane; or
(f)the driver is avoiding an obstruction; or
(g)the traffic in all other lanes is congested; or
(h)the traffic in every lane is congested


Personally, I feel that an undue degree of alarm has been aroused by the rule

2.1(1) simply reexpresses the "Keep left" rule that has been extant for at least 50 years. Note the important qualification "as practicable" . For a motorcylist to ride in an unsafe position would not be practicable.

Section 2.1(3) (the "use the left lane" section) provides quite sufficient qualifying clauses to accomodate any reasonable person. It was, in fact, introduced to stop people hogging the right lane of a passing lane section, and give legislative teeth to the "Keep eft unless passing" signs. I think it is a good idea.

In passing, I note that Sect 2.1(2) must be the most unenforced rule in the law book. I wonder if this section has ever been enforced ?

[Oakie]

Slightly to the right of the RH corner of the vehicle I'm following will do me just fine thank you. Oh, and a metre or so to the left of the centre line if there's no one in front of me.

[-df-]

Hi ekspatriat

From the NZ Motorcycle Road Code

Where is the best place to position your motorcycle on the road whilst riding?

a. In the centre of the road
b. In the postion normally taken up by the right wheels of a car
c. As close to the left as possible

The correct answer is "b. In the postion normally taken up by the right wheels of a car"

I got a naughty mark against my full license in the test doing that...I protested saying it stated in the road code that is what you should do,the guys response: "Road codes wrong" word for word. I was about to protest more until he said he was still giving me my license, just putting down that I failed to stay left.

Wanker.

[Blackbird]

In the last edition of Bike Rider Magazine, or the one before, there was a letter from a visiting English rider who had been pinged for straightlining a sequence of bends that he had clear vision through. He got done for failing to keep left. The visitor was an advanced riding instructor and argued that it was a valid technique which was documented in the Institute of Advanced Motorcyclists procedures. This apparently cut no ice!

[Ixion]

He could have been pinged in the UK too. The rule there is the same

From the UK Highway code


136: Once moving you should

keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road
keep well to the left on right-hand bends. This will improve your view of the road and help avoid the risk of colliding with traffic approaching from the opposite direction

Of course, the UK police may be more lenient about it, but that is the discretion thing again.

[gixermike]

it's not so much about them being lenient....it's about them teaching people to do it to be safer..

Did a two day advanced riding coruse with them and it's exactly what they teach. Use all the carriageway (e.g both lanes) to maximise your view, hence your safe stopping distance, and therefore your speed. You end up going into corners very late, but then carrying lots of speed and getting on the power earlier without running wide (and possibly into oncoming traffic)

The legal statement they quote is that you must "stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road"...so you have to get back to your side, which is easy.

It stops the flying roud a blind bend on the limit issue....as it's no longer blind...you can see it's clear...so being on the lean angle limit is no problem.

Mind you, they also want you to use the full power of the bike to complete safe overtakes....and exceed the limit while doing so...then drop back to the around the limit to continue. can't see that happening in NZ...

It's actually a lot of fun doing 80-90Mph overtakes when all you can see in your mirrors is police bike.

[Blackbird]

Hmmmm.... apparently a conflict between the law and IAM recommendations which is surprising given that I'd expect representation from all parties on the IAM. Even police bikers sit in the other lane to get a clear view when preparing to overtake. I guess that could be construed as failing to keep left.

I was actually taught to do power overtakes on my advanced course in NZ which was run by the ex-chief instructor of the old MOT. I agree that you could be laying yourself wide open though, even if it does make sense. Scummy once said that he never pings anyone whilst overtaking but there again, he's a guy who appreciates the circumstances surrounding bikes.

[DesmoDAZ]

I tend to ride where I feel safe on my side of the road and it does tend to be in the right side wheel path. The center of your own lane is covered with oil and every other fluid that drops off the bottom of cars and trucks and is possibly the greassiest place on the road more so around town and even more so at stop signs, lights and give way signs. The closer to the left in your lane the more debris you are going to come across. Ask any Officer of the Law who has been riding motorcycles for 25 to 30 years where they would rather ride and why. Another point is in group riding the staggered and most accepted method of group riding means that one rider is well left in the lane and the following rider is well right in the lane and so on and so on.
Go figure.:scooter:

[hobdar]

The road code reflects the law and you cannot be done for anything not in the statutes.....

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/ so have fun there is bound to be something here.....sorry way too tired to look but it will be in an amendment under the Land Transport act somewhere

i think that it is so the cops can do bikes for passing on the right within a lane which is legal

i.e car.....motorbike then no passing lines....and seems to be common practice in Wellington.....during rush hour.....