Gravel road tips for a road bike

[fishb8nz]

Although I've covered a fair bit of tarmac, I'm nervous when riding on gravel roads. Recently rode from Awakino to Marakopa after being assured it was sealed all the way through. He was partly right but I still had 45 km of gravel. I felt a bit more confident after that but still need more experience.

What tips can you give me. (BMW F650CS)

[kiwifruit]

relax
go with the flow
:rockon:

[Transalper]

Keep that belt drive away from the stuff unless you have backup.
One stone in the wrong place and you could be pushing, seen it happen with a belt driven Buel once.

[Karma]

Don't go too fast, but not too slow either... try and keep as upright as possible in corners. That's about how I do it.

[Mr. Peanut]

Be smooth with the throttle, if you come off it too fast you'll load up the front end and shit yourself.

Use the camber of the road to the best of your ability, and relax. Look where you want to go.

You might find after a short stint on gravel, your road riding abilities are increased!

[Trudes]

Oh golly, I'm with you, I avoid gravel like the plague, but unfortunately there are times when you just have to ride through it. I'm no expert and every bike could need you do different things, but what I've been told to do and have done so far with no incidents (touch wood) is:
put as much weight on your feet as you can (not sure about actually standing up on pegs though);
loose grip on bars, relax your arms;
look as far ahead as you can;
smooth throttle control;
avoid deep looking gravel, try to stick to the the car wheel run marks where the gravel is likely to be a bit harder packed;
and what I've found works (again, not sure if this is the correct 'riding in gravel' thing to do, but has worked for me so far), if you need to slow down cause you're going down hill etc, don't use front brake but trail the back brake slightly, just enough to slow you down but not hard enough to actually upset the bikes balance or stop you.
Please feel free to correct me anyone, as I would also like more tips for gravel riding, so I don't freak out everytime I get to road works!:sunny:

[Transalper]

What they said and... momentum and gentle acceleration are helpful, let the bike move about under you, it needs to do it, if you fight it ya wobbles will get worse.

PLUG equates it to a waltz ... ya bikes ya dance partner ... hold it tight & ridged & ya toes get stood on ... hold it gental & sence the flow ... you'll dance better than you ever imagined.

Check this out (http://www.africabiketours.com/GravelRiding.html)... It's gravel riding in Africa, some of it might be useful. As always some will be subject to opinion. (it gets more interesting under the picture of the man riding the old BMW)

[ArcherWC]

As per all vehicles on gravel, keep it loose, dont be too harsh on the front brake, and if in doubt, gas it out.

It can actually be fun riding on the loose stuff once you get used to the loose feeling

[Trudes]

Oh yeah, forgot, changing down to a gear that will keep you moving smoothly but is low enough that if you have to accelerate you can and you can use engine braking.
That's a good read there Transalper!:sunny:

[inlinefour]

Although I've covered a fair bit of tarmac, I'm nervous when riding on gravel roads. Recently rode from Awakino to Marakopa after being assured it was sealed all the way through. He was partly right but I still had 45 km of gravel. I felt a bit more confident after that but still need more experience.

What tips can you give me. (BMW F650CS)

Had a 04 DRZ400 adventure bike prior to becoming a paraplegic, have since sold it due to now being unable to use it. The most un-nerving feeling I got back from the feel of the bike was the fact that the frount tyre would semi-constantly move a few inches either side from the small rocks on the shingle/gravel roads. Once I got used to that feeling I found that the DRZ had enough useable power/torque (in fact some said it had too much for a 400cc) and was light enough (unaware of exact weight) that I could fang it around some courners sideways, others have also said I have also been watched doing the same on organised rides on the sealed road (I did not really notice as I was having so mauch fun at the time).
I am currently on the 2nd DVD of "Long Way Round" and believe IMO that is one of the best faking things I have ever viewed! I am now dissapointed that I never tried one of those BMW bikes before having my spinal cord injury... :whocares:

[terbang]

All off the above unless your bike has a steering damper (then stick to the seal or get a trailie), and try bias yer weight towards the rear. Have fun with the roosts...

[mazz1972]

As per all vehicles on gravel, keep it loose, dont be too harsh on the front brake, and if in doubt, gas it out.

It can actually be fun riding on the loose stuff once you get used to the loose feeling

It's that feeling I can't get used to! If I tried to gas it out I know I would become rather quickly aquainted with the ground surface. So like others have suggested here....smooth acceleration. Also I've been told to shift my weight back further so more weight is over the back of the bike (this is coming from a long trail rider so guess he knows what he's saying!). Seems to be a bit easier to control that way.

Good luck!!

[bart]

Relax your arms as much as possible, and don't be afraid to let the ass end do a bit of the steering. Not too much front brake. Do all your braking before the corner then and keep the power on.

Works for me

[RedKLR650]

Although I've covered a fair bit of tarmac, I'm nervous when riding on gravel roads. Recently rode from Awakino to Marakopa after being assured it was sealed all the way through. He was partly right but I still had 45 km of gravel. I felt a bit more confident after that but still need more experience. What tips can you give me. (BMW F650CS)

Here's an idea to get you used to loss of traction in gravel :whocares:

Find a straight quiet shingle / gravel back road with a fairly severe camber, sit on the left had side, get to a speed you are comfortable with, and twist the throttle....... :Punk:

..... Yes, the back wheel will cut loose, and slide to the left, but as soon as yopu ease foo, it will straighten up again, so give it another wee tweek etc, and continue repeating until you are comfortable with the concept, then if the road is remote and empty, try riding in the other lane and sliding to the right. :Oops:

A few hours of this, and you'll think you're a stuntman !!! :-) :banana:

From someone that lives for shingle :love:

Stu :scooter:

[NordieBoy]

What I've recently learned...
Weight forward!
Don't worry about the back end.
Keep yourself upright and lean the bike a bit.
As you go into a corner and lean the bike the front will slip a bit and you will not like that :o but after the apex (to start with) wind the throttle on a bit (to start with) and the front will lighten up with the power/weight transfer and the bike will go where it's ment to - it will feel right.

I knew all the theory but my right wrist didn't want to have anything to do with it.
One day I decided to just do it no matter what my wrist thought and it fcukin works!

After 10 years of gravel corner panic I found out what fun it can be just after the Dusty Butt :rolleyes:

I now look for gravel everywhere :shifty:

[Henk]

Heres another idea for getting better at gravel.
Get a cheap trail bike and spend some time riding in 6 inch slop at winter trail rides, after that gravel is a breeze.
If you don't want to go full off road to learn, everything they said above.
If it's comfortable, try standing up, gives much more control in the realy loose stuff, Can feel odd if the bars and levers aren't set up to accommodate this style of riding though.

[NordieBoy]

Off-road didn't teach me about gravel at all :o

[Motu]

Don't get too involved with controling the rear wheel,it's the front wheel that most people have problems with (I'm the opposite,I don't even give the front wheel a thought,but I've been doing it for a while).When you throttle off (on a 4 stroke) the front loads up and next thing the front wheel starts going everywhere.....you need that throttle on.

Nordie's got it - weight forward,right up on the tank,dirt bikes actually don't have enough weight on the front wheel for gravel.You need to be a bit aggressive,gentle with the throttle is not for me - on corner exit get the gas on hard as soon as you can.I have a theory that only one wheel goes down at a time (I know it's not true,but shut up for now),so if that rear wheel is spinning,the front will track true and all you have to do is steer.Same on corner entry - get that rear wheel happy,if the rear wheel is fighting for traction under braking the front won't be.You don't really have to have wheelspin and brake slides....but direct the problems rearward and the scary front wheel will feel much more under your control.

[Oscar]

What I've recently learned...
Weight forward!
Don't worry about the back end.
Keep yourself upright and lean the bike a bit.
As you go into a corner and lean the bike the front will slip a bit and you will not like that :o but after the apex (to start with) wind the throttle on a bit (to start with) and the front will lighten up with the power/weight transfer and the bike will go where it's ment to - it will feel right.

I knew all the theory but my right wrist didn't want to have anything to do with it.
One day I decided to just do it no matter what my wrist thought and it fcukin works!

After 10 years of gravel corner panic I found out what fun it can be just after the Dusty Butt :rolleyes:

I now look for gravel everywhere :shifty:

Sounds good to me.

Perfect corner...
Sit forward, bike leaning over (but you sitting straight up) with yer weight up on the tank but also pushing down on the outside peg as you approach the corner, hard on the front brake to the apex. Tap the back brake at the apex, and gas it...


Of course you may need a little (25 years in my case) practice to perfect that. My tips for what they're worth:

* Do all yer braking in a straight line. As hard as you dare on the front, and then a little bit harder next time.
* Using the rear brake only will tend to make you slide (and will slow you down). Use both.
* Stick yer foot out. If it makes you feel more comfortable, stick yer inside foot out just like Josh Coppins - point it to the apex, leg bent slightly and boot sole parallel to the road. Who knows, as well as looking good, you might even save the odd front end wash out.
* Watch the road surface as far ahead as you can. Abrupt changes in traction can cause abrupt changes in your "on road" status.
*Gravel ain't just gravel. On the thick stuff, sit back like you're on sand, keep the front pointed with throttle control - use a lower gear and keep the back wheel driving. Finer stuff can tend toward muddy slippery corners.
*Be smoooth. It's amazing how often you'll speed up by not trying to go as fast.

[cooneyr]

What I've recently learned...
Weight forward!
Don't worry about the back end.
Keep yourself upright and lean the bike a bit.
As you go into a corner and lean the bike the front will slip a bit and you will not like that :o but after the apex (to start with) wind the throttle on a bit (to start with) and the front will lighten up with the power/weight transfer and the bike will go where it's ment to - it will feel right.

I knew all the theory but my right wrist didn't want to have anything to do with it.
One day I decided to just do it no matter what my wrist thought and it fcukin works!

After 10 years of gravel corner panic I found out what fun it can be just after the Dusty Butt :rolleyes:

I now look for gravel everywhere :shifty:

Awsome dude - glad you have found the groove. That technique definatly works (most of the time) for me. Just dont do what I did and go to fast/forget to watch the road i.e. focus to much on oncomming traffic etc etc (plus every other excuse).

Cheers R

[fishb8nz]

Very helpful advice, there. I'd love to get a trail bike but the overwhelming marital odds against more than one bike are beyond me. Not a battle that I'm prepared to fight. I know, no cojones, but a 35 year marriage.
However, I know mine isn't a great candidate for gravel, with the rubber belt. But if you're faced with it, you have to deal with it.
Good advice, cheers.

[KoroJ]

Aye, I'm with Nordie and Motu on this one.

If you get your weight as far forward as possible it tends to anchor the front wheel and it doesn't matter what the back is doing. This is helped by the design of the bike (ie especially the rake on the front forks, so no Cruiser/Chopper will ever handle loose stuff well and big tanks tend to make it difficult). A low centre of gravity helps.

I wouldn't normally stand or put much weight on the pegs as it's more fun to ride speedway style with the back hanging out and a boot down.

[NordieBoy]

The Buell Ulyssyssiesss has a belt and I thought it was designed for gravelly stuff?

BigDave?

[cooneyr]

The Buell Ulyssyssiesss has a belt and I thought it was designed for gravelly stuff?

BigDave?

A hardly engined bike on gravel OMG. :dodge: Check this link (http://www.hogwildracing.com/) out :rockon: Some interesting vids.

Cheers R

[Edbear]

and try bias yer weight towards the rear...



Mmmmm! Unfortunately most of my weight is biased towards the front...:bye:

[warewolf]

I wouldn't normally stand or put much weight on the pegs as it's more fun to ride speedway style with the back hanging out and a boot down.I disagree, it's more fun to slide speedway style with both feet still on the pegs, sitting or standing.:yes: It's just gets a bit more fun once you are banging the lock-stops through a long corner :shit:

[Ruralman]

What I've recently learned...
Weight forward!
Don't worry about the back end.
Keep yourself upright and lean the bike a bit.
As you go into a corner and lean the bike the front will slip a bit and you will not like that :o but after the apex (to start with) wind the throttle on a bit (to start with) and the front will lighten up with the power/weight transfer and the bike will go where it's ment to - it will feel right.

I knew all the theory but my right wrist didn't want to have anything to do with it.
One day I decided to just do it no matter what my wrist thought and it fcukin works!

After 10 years of gravel corner panic I found out what fun it can be just after the Dusty Butt :rolleyes:

I now look for gravel everywhere :shifty:

I agree with Nordie - spot on - I live on gravel and ride it all the time. The key thing as he says is to stay upright yourself and lean the bike - basically you go into dirt bike mode on the gravel and road bike on the seal. Look at photos of a GP racer going round a corner and a top motocross rider or enduro rider going round a corner on a dirt course - the road/track rider leans with the bike (or even further than the bike), the dirt rider leans the bike but stays upright themself.
Look at where you want to go, not at what you are trying to avoid, lean bike and then power on.
Don't be too afraid to use the front brake either - obviously you don't use it when leaning the bike on loose stuff in mid corner, but, if you realize you are coming into a corner too fast then keep it all upright and give a bloody good stab on both brakes to wipe off a serious amount of speed and then let of the front brake and gently use the back as you tip it in for the corner and start putting some power back on. As with sealed road riding you will get round a corner tighter with some power on than drifting round with no power. Point and shoot is an expression used which sums it up pretty well.
Keep your weight forward - its more important the front wheel goes where you want it and it needs the weight and the bite to do that - especially downhill tight turns.
I also agree you should keep your feet up on the pegs unless maybe your riding a genuine trail bike on really tight and loose stuff and even there you can do it feet up - you've got more control feet up as you are better able to move the whole bike from side to side, besides which feet up power slides are just so much more fun!

[Templar]

I am currently on the 2nd DVD of "Long Way Round" and believe IMO that is one of the best faking things I have ever viewed! I am now dissapointed that I never tried one of those BMW bikes before having my spinal cord injury... :whocares:

Hey dude, I've just finished watching those as well, after buying the book at borders. Great dvd's eh, makes me want to ride around the world too!

[Ronnie]

Yes thats a good advice, just find a stretch of gravel thets not too busy and twist the throttle. Do the same with the brakes. Just squeeze front brake and c what happens. Start slowly and u cant go wrong, just keep at it. :scooter:

[marks]

Hi

I covered about 80 km of gravel in the weekend and as a gravel virgin I tried to apply the great info in this thread. One situation that screwed me every time was an off camber blind right hand corner with thick gravel on the outside of the corner.

Twice I went off the road and once I went up along the bank at the edge. There seems to be a 'rabbit in headlights' point when both wheels start sliding and I'm a meter or less from the edge where I just don't know what to do other than mess my undies and run off the road.

I have to confess to lacking the courage to gas it under these conditions.

What can I try?

cheers


Mark

[Transalper]

My knee-jerk reaction is that you need to realise it's off camber (and blind...and shingly.. but mostly off camber) to start with and slow a lot more before entering that kind of bend. But it's hard to say with out being there and seeing it for myself.

[Transalper]

BTW I dislike the off camber ones too as does i suspect cooneyr.
I always slow more than i want to for those ones

[Crisis management]

BTW I dislike the off camber ones too as does i suspect cooneyr.
I always slow more than i want to for those ones

Soooo, I'm not the only one that hates these then!

I'm far from expert on this topic but what (sometimes, when I get it right) works for me is getting well forward on the bike and giving it heaps of throttle from the apex, or even before the apex if I time it right. The rear will controllably slide around and the front bites and steers well. This works for the DR650 and may work with your XT (marks) as it's a similar type of bike.
My other option is the nana crawl at 5km's wobbling around.....

[Motu]

Yep,downhill off camber rights are the nasty ones.Safety is of upmost importance on gravel,to me more so than seal,as so much can go wrong.As far as I'm concerned if I can't see through the corner,then I assume a car (or big arse truck,combine harvester,rally wannabe) is coming the other way.So unfortunatly on a DHOCR it's dead slow,steer with the bars,shit yourself and wobble.But I make up for the nana stuff where I can.

[NighthawkNZ]

Accept that the bike is going to move about more, relax your grip more than normal. (stay relaxed overall)

Slow down untill you get use to it, and slowly speed up till you find a comfortable speed for you.

Don't slam on the front brakes and cause a lock that bad... I tend to use the rear brakes a bit more on gravel.

[marks]

Soooo, I'm not the only one that hates these then!

I'm far from expert on this topic but what (sometimes, when I get it right) works for me is getting well forward on the bike and giving it heaps of throttle from the apex, or even before the apex if I time it right. The rear will controllably slide around and the front bites and steers well. This works for the DR650 and may work with your XT (marks) as it's a similar type of bike.
My other option is the nana crawl at 5km's wobbling around.....

I assumed that if I gassed it on an off camber the rear would try and overtake the front as it already wants to slide "down" the camber. I provide more than enough entertainment for my riding buddies without leaving the road arse first :)

Still its all worth while when you can strop along roads like these for hours on end....

[cooneyr]

BTW I dislike the off camber ones too as does i suspect cooneyr.
I always slow more than i want to for those ones

Yer off camber didnt help but that wasnt the cause of my crash. Off camber not at all fun though.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Soooo, I'm not the only one that hates these then!

Yep, my pet hate is the OCDR's
Even on the XR250 with knobblies I hatesssss 'em.

[Crisis management]

Are we not at risk of making these off camber corners a bigger threat than they really are?
All right hand corners are off camber, the road naturally slopes that way (yes, I know that's a generalisation, but too bad) so we deal with them on every corner, whats the big deal?

If it's downhill and a bigger off camber then thats just like cranking the bike over a bit more, it's just the angle the road and bike are at....adapt to it.

I find the DR corners best under power, the back wheel spinning and with the weight forward and I don't see why that should be any different for a DHOCRH (did I get the acronym right) corner.

Marks, yes the rear will come round, thats ok, it just means that it is easier to straighten the front and point out of the corner faster.....instead of steering your way around with the front you are getting the bike turned faster and back in line with the next straight.

Right, rant over!

PS. I take Motus' point about visibility around the corner and the care required, something we townies forget....

[chris]

Lots of good advice there. One thing missing though, tyres. Fit decent tyres and you're half way to enjoying it. Fit road biased tyres (even those that think they are 'dual purpose' tyres) and you're making life more difficult than it has to be. Just fit good, road legal knobbies.

[Transalper]

:confused: I think this thread has officially lost the plot.
I refer to the original title.... Gravel road tips for a road bike
Some of this isn't going to help the Hornet 900 riders and CBR1000 riders or almost any sportsbike that find them selves on the stones, they don't have the steering lock and weight distribution to make use off where this thread is heading, and i don't expect the thread originator fishb8nz to be putting anything other than 100% road tyres on his bike.:no:

[chris]

:confused: I think this thread has officially lost the plot.
I refer to the original title.... Gravel road tips for a road bike
Some of this isn't going to help the Hornet 900 riders and CBR1000 riders or almost any sportsbike that find them selves on the stones, they don't have the steering lock and weight distribution to make use off where this thread is heading, and i don't expect the thread originator fishb8nz to be putting anything other than 100% road tyres on his bike.:no:
My DR650 can go on the road....

[Transalper]

My DR650 can go on the road....So can/does mine, but this thread strayed off the road bike topic in to the duelsport action long before your post on tyres.

[Dazza]

Although I've covered a fair bit of tarmac, I'm nervous when riding on gravel roads. Recently rode from Awakino to Marakopa after being assured it was sealed all the way through. He was partly right but I still had 45 km of gravel. I felt a bit more confident after that but still need more experience.

What tips can you give me. (BMW F650CS) That's hardcase, I did it the other way round about a month ago & had a blast. Was riding with 2 mates on there Tuono's, one wouldn't go over 75kph, so thought bugger this as the front guy was getting away.The scariest bit was the sealed piece towards Awakino as they hadn't swept the road since they sealed it. Just get well over the front & give it shit as long as the front is going where you want it to go who cares what the backs doing. We where getting along @ a fairly brisk pace. Just had to throttle off far enough from the corner to prevent the rear from passing the front.On blind corners stay as far left as possible incase someone is a Possum wanabe.And these are road bikes.

[Rosie]

:confused: I think this thread has officially lost the plot.
I refer to the original title.... Gravel road tips for a road bike
Some of this isn't going to help the Hornet 900 riders and CBR1000 riders or almost any sportsbike that find them selves on the stones, they don't have the steering lock and weight distribution to make use off where this thread is heading, and i don't expect the thread originator fishb8nz to be putting anything other than 100% road tyres on his bike.:no:

:yes:
It started off as a very useful thread. Fitting knobbly tyres to the KR 150 so it becomes a gravel road weapon may not be an option, but I would like to improve my skills so I don't feel I need to avoid an entire section of road because of a short bit of gravel.

[NighthawkNZ]

:yes:
It started off as a very useful thread. Fitting knobbly tyres to the KR 150 so it becomes a gravel road weapon may not be an option, but I would like to improve my skills so I don't feel I need to avoid an entire section of road because of a short bit of gravel.

I doubt I could get knobblys for the VTR???? :scratch:

[Toaster]

It's understandable to be nervous on gravel.

Any wise biker would be. I have a 180m drive of gravel which goes up an incline and its a pig of a thing to get up at times.

[NordieBoy]

I doubt I could get knobblys for the VTR???? :scratch:

You'd be surprised :D

[cooneyr]

I doubt I could get knobblys for the VTR???? :scratch:

Why do you need knobbies. Sjaak Lucassen rode an R1 around the world (according to the web site) on very road orientated tyres. Check out his page (http://www.r1goesextreme.com/).

Cheers R

[NighthawkNZ]

Why do you need knobbies.


Never said I want or needed them... happy the the tyres I got and do the odd gravel road on them

[NighthawkNZ]

You'd be surprised :D

well they would frack the real wheel hugger smart quickly and all that lol ;)

[fishb8nz]

Transalper's right, there's no way I'm going to use anything but road tyres.
However, I've picked up some good info that will help me. There's no way I'll choose to ride over gravel roads, voluntarily. The odd bit of road works can't be helped.
BTW drove from Raglan to Kawhia a few days ago in my Toyota RAV4 and parts were barely passable with several red clay slips. Totally awful for a road bike!

[Crisis management]

BTW drove from Raglan to Kawhia a few days ago in my Toyota RAV4 and parts were barely passable with several red clay slips. Totally awful for a road bike!

Goodie....we're off there next weekend, let's hope the council doesn't have a clean up before then!

[windboy]

sweet! that sounds like fun, may have to try make it to kawhia...

[vifferman]

I guess it depends to some degree on the type of bike. Road bikes tend to be fairly front-heavy, and the sports radials float around on gravel instead of biting down through it, so keeping the front light helps.
I took the VFR on some gravel roads last year, and found that the trick was to keep the speed up: over about 85/90 km/h and it felt much better, especially over rutted surfaces, as it just floated over the bumps instead of getting unsettled. The speed (scary at first) and a passenger both helped to keep the weight back.

I was glad of the linked brakes too - using the brake pedal meant less drama.

One other thing I did, which isn't recommended but worked well, was to go up rutted hills on the wrong side of the road where visibility allowed for it, as there were fewer ruts from cars/buses 'axle-tramping' their way up the hill.

The biggest thing I learned was to check my tankbag before moving it around - the grit under it wrecked my paint.