Bus lanes and motorcycles in Wellington

[centaurus]

This morning I've been stopped and fined by a police officer for riding on a bus lane (the one coming from Karori). I told her that as far as I knew it was legal (wasn't a "bus only" marked lane, was only a green lane). She told me it is illegal for motorcycles to ride on the bus lanes, only cycles are allowed. Looks like they are out and about today to catch people who drive/ride on the bus lanes.

As soon as I arrived at work I did a search on the net and I found a page on the official Wellington council website, which specifies clearly that motorcycles ARE allowed on the bus lanes.

In case any of you gets stopped in Wellington, tell them to go read the council regulations again - it is legal to ride on a bus lane, as long as it's not marked as "bus only".

Here is the webpage:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/projects/benefits/buslanes.html

[magicfairy]

So are you going to take it up with the officer (or her senior) that issued the ticket and see what they say? I'd be pretty angry given you pointed out you thought it was legal. And the officer was wrong.
Because of course now you have to go thru the hassle of writing in to defend the ticket that should not have been issued - cops will say "all out of their hands now - write a letter"

[Hitcher]

Read your ticket very carefully. Last I heard, Wellington City Council was still in discussion with the Commissioner of Police regarding bus lane traffic enforcement. The Police had been resisting, given the level of resource required.

Give the WCC a call of 499 4444 and see if things have changed.

[centaurus]

So are you going to take it up with the officer (or her senior) that issued the ticket and see what they say? I'd be pretty angry given you pointed out you thought it was legal. And the officer was wrong.
Because of course now you have to go thru the hassle of writing in to defend the ticket that should not have been issued - cops will say "all out of their hands now - write a letter"

She didn't hand me a ticket. She took my details and told me I was gonna receive a ticked in the mail. As soon as I receive the ticked, I'm gonna go and contest it. I also found the same information on the LTSA webpage:

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/rur-qas.html
"Can motorcycles use bus lanes?
Yes, unless specifically excluded by signs."

[Nasty]

Great work on looking things up rather than just getting pissed off .. always pays to have all the info first!! BLING for you!!:sunny:

[centaurus]

Great work on looking things up rather than just getting pissed off .. always pays to have all the info first!! BLING for you!!:sunny:

Thanks Nasty. I've just written an e-mail to the Wellington council (their phone line was busy - obviously) and I expect their official answer about motorcycles and bus lanes. I'll keep you posted as soon as I have an answer.

[ManDownUnder]

She didn't hand me a ticket. She took my details and told me I was gonna receive a ticked in the mail. As soon as I receive the ticked, I'm gonna go and contest it. I also found the same information on the LTSA webpage:

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/rur-qas.html
"Can motorcycles use bus lanes?
Yes, unless specifically excluded by signs."

Hopefully it was a sub 100kph strecth of road (i.e. Wellington City Council controlled) because their website clearly confirms the rules applicable and you're sweet!

If it was a 100kph stretch of road it's governed by transit (LTSA) in which case their rules apply, and the "sepcifically exluded" section of their rules is a big grey area they interpret "buses only" to mean "no motorcycles" - even though it's not a "specific" exclusion.

Good luck though - and give it a push. Let us know how you get on.

[pete376403]

If this is part of a regular morning commute you should print the page and carry it on the bike so you can educate the police officer next time

[centaurus]

:rockon: Great minds think alike :rockon:

I already printed the page from the WCC website and I'm carrying it in my backpack for exactly this purpose.

[centaurus]

from: Stephen
to xxxxxxxx
date May 9, 2007 12:31 PM
subject RE: Customer Enquiry Raised in Confirm - Enquiry xxxxxxx

The information on the Website is correct. Motorcycles are permitted to
use "Bus lanes" but not "Bus Only" lanes. This is covered by Council
Traffic resolutions.

:headbang: Mith Busted :headbang: Now I have official proof.

[Nasty]

Great work ... and congrats on getting an answer from them ... I will remember this one should they try and ping me :)

[Jantar]

from: Stephen
to xxxxxxxx
date May 9, 2007 12:31 PM
subject RE: Customer Enquiry Raised in Confirm - Enquiry xxxxxxx

The information on the Website is correct. Motorcycles are permitted to
use "Bus lanes" but not "Bus Only" lanes. This is covered by Council
Traffic resolutions.

:headbang: Mith Busted :headbang: Now I have official proof.
However the MOT traffic rules over-rule any local authority bylaw. You can legally use any bus lanes unless SPECIFICALLY excluded. A sign saying "Bus Only" or "Busses Only" only specifies busses. It does not specify motorcycles, and therefore motorcycles are not SPECIFICALLY excluded.

I believe that in enough cases motorcyclists have defended and won cases based on this wording that in some areas police have been told to back off from ticketing motorcyclists on bus lane.

[Sanx]

I had it on good authority that the Auckland motorway bus lanes, in which - according to TranshitNZ - we're not allowed to ride in, are incorrectly signed and that cops have been told not to bother giving bikers tickets as they'll get thrown out in court.

[Fatjim]

I'd like to know whether

a. The Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=2026910007&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&record=%7B2C68F%7D&softpage=DOC) can be superceeded by a local or regional authority. And if it can, how is it reasonable for the courts to expect anybody to know regional and local exceptions, regardless of where they commit an offence.

b. if a "bus lane means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane resumes after an intersection for the use of—

(a)buses; and

[(b)cycles, mopeds, and motorcycles (unless one or more are specifically excluded by the sign)"

How can "bus lane only" be a specific exclusion

[Colapop]

Fark!! I always ride up that lane. I'm sure it says motorcycles are allowed on that sign?? I may need my eyes checked....

[Grahameeboy]

Silly question but did you actually have to ride in bus lane......I use Esmonde Road and it is easy to filter between the stopped vehicle and I see some guys use the bus lane when they could just filter...........traffic is stopped so technically parked.

With so much controversy re bus lane, much of which has been posted on Kb it is not worth the risk eh?

[limbimtimwim]

How can "bus lane only" be a specific exclusionI suspect because the road code has an example. See http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-signs/main-types.html#compulsory Scroll down a bit.

If it (The sign) says "Bus only" and the road code says a sign that says "Bus only" excludes motorcycles, cyclists and mopeds, then it excludes motorcycles, cyclists and mopeds.

[Jantar]

I'd like to know whether

a. The Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=2026910007&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&record=%7B2C68F%7D&softpage=DOC) can be superceeded by a local or regional authority.

Yes it can be superceded by a more recent local or regional authority bylaw


And if it can, how is it reasonable for the courts to expect anybody to know regional and local exceptions, regardless of where they commit an offence.

It is reasonable to expect road users (and the court) to know, because that section of bus lane where motorcyclists are excluded will have a sign specifically excluding motorcycles. ie a sign saying "Motorcycles Excluded" or a picture of a motorcycle with a red diagonal line through it.


b. if a "bus lane means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane resumes after an intersection for the use of—

(a)buses; and

[(b)cycles, mopeds, and motorcycles (unless one or more are specifically excluded by the sign)"

How can "bus lane only" be a specific exclusion

A "Bus Lane Only" sign is not a specific exclusion. It is one that allows motorcycles to use that lane under the Land Transport Rule.

[Fatjim]

It is reasonable to expect road users (and the court) to know, because that section of bus lane where motorcyclists are excluded will have a sign specifically excluding motorcycles. ie a sign saying "Motorcycles Excluded" or a picture of a motorcycle with a red diagonal line through it.


What I was getting at was can a council say a sign that says "bus lane" means no motorcycles because a of a bylaw even though government statute says that "bus lane" allows motorcyclists as well..

[Fatjim]

I suspect because the road code has an example. See http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-signs/main-types.html#compulsory Scroll down a bit.

If it (The sign) says "Bus only" and the road code says a sign that says "Bus only" excludes motorcycles, cyclists and mopeds, then it excludes motorcycles, cyclists and mopeds.

But the law says "one or more are specifically excluded by the sign". Its impossible to specifically exclude all of them when being unspecific.


What I'm getting at is the "exclusion" in specific, but the "what" isn't, and the wording implies that the "what" is what needs to be specific.

[Colapop]

Silly question but did you actually have to ride in bus lane......I use Esmonde Road and it is easy to filter between the stopped vehicle and I see some guys use the bus lane when they could just filter...........traffic is stopped so technically parked.

With so much controversy re bus lane, much of which has been posted on Kb it is not worth the risk eh?
Ahh yes you do. The traffic is stopped and it is dangerous to overtake on the outside of that lane. The bus lane is signposted for use by motorcyclists (on the first sign at the bottom) so tell the jumped up prick to get f*cked.

[limbimtimwim]

Jantar, you are confusing "Buses only" with "Bus Lane". They are different. But it is not obvious!

Perhaps "Bus Lanes" should go away, and they could all be called "Transit Lanes" since they seem to be pretty much the same thing, as far as I can see anyway.

That would leave "Buses only" pretty clear cut, it would mean buses only.

[limbimtimwim]

But the law says "one or more are specifically excluded by the sign". Its impossible to specifically exclude all of them when being unspecific.I know, it's shitty, hence my choice of round-about wording earlier on. My point was, if the road code says so, that is it. The road code explains that a sign that says "Buses only" excludes everything but buses, so that should be good enough for us.

I agree it isn't.

[limbimtimwim]

What I was getting at was can a council say a sign that says "bus lane" means no motorcycles because a of a bylaw even though government statute says that "bus lane" allows motorcyclists as well..Where do they do that?

[centaurus]

Silly question but did you actually have to ride in bus lane......I use Esmonde Road and it is easy to filter between the stopped vehicle and I see some guys use the bus lane when they could just filter...........traffic is stopped so technically parked.

With so much controversy re bus lane, much of which has been posted on Kb it is not worth the risk eh?

Here in Wellington, on some streets, if the traffic is stopped, the only way to go is over the center line (which is yellow sometimes) or on the bus lane. Being only one narrow lane, you don't have room for filtering. Given that, I prefer riding on the bus lane and arguing with the occasional cop than riding over the center line and getting splashed on a truck bonnet.

[Jantar]

Where do they do that?

Just click on the link in centaurus's or Fatjim's replys.


She didn't hand me a ticket. She took my details and told me I was gonna receive a ticked in the mail. As soon as I receive the ticked, I'm gonna go and contest it. I also found the same information on the LTSA webpage:

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/rur-qas.html
"Can motorcycles use bus lanes?
Yes, unless specifically excluded by signs."


I'd like to know whether

a. The Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/libraries/contents/om_isapi.dll?clientID=2026910007&infobase=pal_regs.nfo&record=%7B2C68F%7D&softpage=DOC) can be superceeded by a local or regional authority. And if it can, how is it reasonable for the courts to expect anybody to know regional and local exceptions, regardless of where they commit an offence.

b. if a "bus lane means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane resumes after an intersection for the use of—

(a)buses; and

[(b)cycles, mopeds, and motorcycles (unless one or more are specifically excluded by the sign)"

How can "bus lane only" be a specific exclusion

[Fatjim]

It's in the definitions bit.

[limbimtimwim]

Just click on the link in centaurus's or Fatjim's replys.I mean in Wellington. Geographically. There is nowhere in Wellington's City Council's jurisdiction that I am aware of where there is a sign that says "Bus Lane" that excludes motorcycles. There are areas that have a sign that says "Buses Only" and in those areas, motorcycles are excluded. Those are not bus lanes. The road code makes it (not) clear by providing an example.

[Jantar]

I mean in Wellington. Geographically. There is nowhere in Wellington's City Council's jurisdiction that I am aware of where there is a sign that says "Bus Lane" that excludes motorcycles. There are areas that have a sign that says "Buses Only" and in those areas, motorcycles are excluded. Those are not bus lanes. The road code makes it (not) clear by providing an example.

Pardon? A lane that has a sign saying "Buses Only" is not a bus lane?
OK, there are a couple of issues here. The first is that the Road code gives an example of a bus lane, not a definition. The second is that the legislation was ammended AFTER the road code was authorised for printing. ie the Road Code was out of date when it was issued.

Here is what the Traffic Rule says:

bus lane means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane resumes after an intersection for the use of—

(a)buses; and

[(b)cycles, mopeds, and motorcycles (unless one or more are specifically excluded by the sign)]

[sAsLEX]

Hopefully it was a sub 100kph strecth of road (i.e. Wellington City Council controlled) because their website clearly confirms the rules applicable and you're sweet!

If it was a 100kph stretch of road it's governed by transit (LTSA) in which case their rules apply, and the "sepcifically exluded" section of their rules is a big grey area they interpret "buses only" to mean "no motorcycles" - even though it's not a "specific" exclusion.

Good luck though - and give it a push. Let us know how you get on.

WRONG!


The new law passed means that all roads, sub 100 or not, fall under the same legislation to avoid people having to be familiar with different councils rules etc

[sAsLEX]

I know, it's shitty, hence my choice of round-about wording earlier on. My point was, if the road code says so, that is it. The road code explains that a sign that says "Buses only" excludes everything but buses, so that should be good enough for us.

I agree it isn't.

Is the Rode Code law?

Didn't think so.....