Disable dual braking?

[stunz]

Hi,
I'm looking for some information on disabling and removing a dual braking system on a 93 CBR1000f tourer. Well, it's not a tourer anymore, hence the need to disable the system. Thanks

[vifferman]

What do you want to know?
Try finding one of the forums for other bikes with CDBS - Blackbirds or VFRs. It's a common mod.
Here's a start:
Divorcing rear brakes from front (VFR800) (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28433&st=0&p=336330&#entry336330)
Fixing the rear brake (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28433&st=0&p=336324&#entry336324)

You'll have to find the Balckbird ones yourself.

Remember: Google is your friend.
Start with "de linking Blackbird brakes"

[James Deuce]

Divorcing rear brakes from front (VFR800) (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28433&st=0&p=336330&#entry336330)


I want that bike!

[vifferman]

I want that bike!
You're not the only one.
I don't think it will ever be finished. It's "complete" at the moment - till the next mod.
Rob needed to stick the 870 donk in it first.

Here's some more:
VFR/SP2 (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27968)
Supercharged VFR (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31492)
Ohlins Bits (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19495)


There was another VFR800 that was even sweeter - a guy in Seff Uffrica put an RC51 front end on with wave rotors, machined some very tasty bits himself, made his own custom bars....

And then, it all came undone.... (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29004&st=0&p=344315&#entry344315)

[James Deuce]

I find it interesting that so many people discard the LBS. I can see why you'd want to get rid of it, as I use my rear brake for speed adjustment in all low speed manoeuvres. It would be annoying to lose the front after tapping the rear brake lever doing a U-Turn.

[vifferman]

I find it interesting that so many people discard the LBS. I can see why you'd want to get rid of it, as I use my rear brake for speed adjustment in all low speed manoeuvres. It would be annoying to lose the front after tapping the rear brake lever doing a U-Turn.

It took me a few days to get used to the "Dual Combined Braking System", but now I like it.
U-turns are a piece of cake - you just hold the brake pedal down a bit, and balance it with the throttle.
And the big advantage is you can stomp on the brake pedal while tootling along in traffic, or on slippery road surfaces, or while wearing brand new Spidi Sport Comp H2Out glubs that hinder your use of your fingers, and it doesn't do anything crazy - just slows down.
I've only ever had the back lock up once or twice - while braking very hard from speed, over a ripply surface. The proportioning valve under the seat sorts things out pretty well.
The worst thing about the DCBS is the extra weight and complexity; to bleed it, you have to turn the rear caliper upside down and bleed it, then bleed the proportioning valve, then the front right caliper, then the left connecting valve thingo, then the left caliper.
Or something like that.
But I was amazed that given the complexity, extra weight and stuff, the VFR braked better than my VTR, which had the same size disks, same SBS pads, four-piston front calipers AND braided brake lines. Mind you, the back brake on the VTR was almost completely useless, except for trickling through traffic.

[Mr. Peanut]

Why oh why did Honda go to cam chains :bye:
Stupid consumers.

[Blackbird]

I actually like my linked brakes but here's some info which might help.

http://www.bikersoracle.com/blackbird/forum/showthread.php?t=29532&highlight=de-linking+brakes

http://www.321ignition.co.uk/de_linking.htm

[FROSTY]

Stunz--There are two options for ya
1) rip all the braking system out --lock stock and barrel and fit the brakes from the model DIRECTLY before. From memory all the calipers etc will just fit right on in.
2) Rip out all the brake lines and replace em with straight lines--avoiding the IBS system
3) rip it all out and fit 4 piston calipers from another bike
As long as the ratio's remain correct -Option two is the easiest

[Grub]

I've read the FAQ's and still don't understand why everyone wants to throw the system out.

Formula 1 cars, Aussie V8's and WRC cars (in fact almost all race cars) have brake balance adjustments. Why not bikes?

Isit just because this is a 'new' thing to bikes and so we don't like or trust the concept? I can see that there might be personal preferences in different balance setups and that maybe this is the technology we need, not to throw the thing off the bike.

I wonder if there was a similar conservative reaction to disks vs drum brakes at first. "... Disks will catch dirt and stones, the calipers will get jammed and will kill you ... oil from the road surface will get thrown onto the disk making braking impossible ... the braking is too vicious, drums brakes have more feedback and feel ..."

You get my drift I'm sure.

[vifferman]

I've read the FAQ's and still don't understand why everyone wants to throw the system out.
Everyone?
Most VFR and Blackbird owners are probably quite happy with the system.

I think that many riders who come from other bikes probably resent not being able to brake each wheel independently. In practice, it actually works very well (especially on the 3rd-generation system on the latest VFRs) and you don't really notice the back braking when you use the front levers, and vice-versa. It is also rather effective, especially if you use the back brake when braking hard, as you then get the extra front pistons coming into play. There's front-end less dive when braking hard too.

Like I said, I don't like the complexity of the system when bleeding the brakes, and I don't like the mechanical link on the front left-hand caliper - it adds extra unsprung weight. But then again, so does the single-sided swingarm. I'd also prefer to have better brakes and suspension fitted than have things like linked brakes, catalytic convertor, and the SuperDuperLeanMode of the EFi (now disabled on my bike), but if it had those, and I had the choice, I'd stick with linked brakes.
Here's an example: I was riding to work yesterday, and my brand-new gloves hadn't stretched yet, so my fingers weren't working properly. The chick in front of me, took off from the lights, then immediately jumped on the anchors, perhaps assuming since the car next to her hadn't moved, that maybe the light wasn't green after all. I didn't have time to grab the front brake, as I wasn't covering it, but I stamped hard on the pedal, as my foot was already on it. The bike just stopped dead, almost as effectively as if I'd used the front brakes, but with no skidding or drama. Without linked brakes, the bike wouldn't have stopped as quickly, and the back wheel would've locked up.
Another example:
Last year, I went on a tour around the Far North. The gravel roads up to Cape Reinga were much easier to negotiate with the DCBS, as all I had to do was use the rear brake pedal instead of the brake lever in order to minimise losing the front end.

Of course, not all linked brakes are equal; the second and third generation linked brakes are much better than the first iteration. And I can't speak for Guzzi linked brakes, as I've never used them.

[Grub]

Cool Viff, excellent explanation, very clear. Here, have a bling.

[vifferman]

Why oh why did Honda go to cam chains :bye:
Stupid consumers.
Actually, I'm sure the consumers would want to keep them, especially given Honda's crap performance in the camchain department. Honda started off with camchains, then adopted gear-driven cams on only a few models, including the CBR250, the VFRs (but not the VFs) and the RC51. They've since dropped them on the VFR, and the reason I believe is for noise reduction. With the VFRs, Honda moved the cam gear drive from the middle of the cams to the right-hand end of the cams in 1998, and it made the engine much noisier. In 2002, they put camchains on the VFR800 VTec, and I can't think of any reason apart from noise; it's not lighter, it makes the cams harder to remove to do the valve clearance checks (and you have to do it twice!), it's less reliable, and doesn't offer performance advantages. Maybe camchains are cheaper (?) but not if you have to replace stuff when they start to fail, which they do.

[Al]

My beemer R1150RT has linked ABS brakes and a shitload of "idiot/warning" lights, apparently the bike has an ABS fault and brake failure...
Have to take it to dealer with diagnostics, could be sensors, ABS unit or even low battery voltage!

Money, money, money...

(Rant over)

Have a good weekend

Al

[stunz]

Thanks for the links Vifferman and Blackbird.

It's not that I want to get rid of the DBS, its just that after binning it and losing the fairings, it's not quite a big old lunky tourer anymore.

Admittedly, my early learning was that % of pressure applied to either hand or foot brake delivers = amount of stopping capability to respective wheels. I did find all this evenly delivered stopping power to be a little uncomfortable at first, but have taken the beasty over many twisty roads (in the short time I actually had it on the road) and found DBS to be quite nice and easy to use. Quite disconcerting really, yanking on the front anchors with next to no nose-dive.
So no real problems with the actual system (though I think the DBS is partially responsible for the bike letting go over that firkin diesel patch in the first place :shit:)

Anyway, will check out some of that info.

Cheers all, have a great weekend!