What's better: just front breaking or both front and rear?

[moT]

i believe front only is better because rear break only breaks up to 50% of bike where as front break used skillfully can break 100%(over 100% is stoppies) the front wheel caries all weight of bike there for its more efficient breaking its at 100% breaking if u touch the rear it will skid and its much harder to use both than just the front u can also skidd out the rear with the front by shifting the weight of the bike mid corner eg turnin into corner while breaking shifitng weight to front which lifts the rear and lightens the traction on rear more than the road traction. i know the road code said 80 20 but they dont race! the bike is breaking 100%of the weight on the front wheel if it was 80% u wld lock up the front before the stoppie.

[moT]

in reference to a car if there was no rear breaks it would be shittier its because the front wheels cant break 100% of the weight of the car (otherwise cars could do stoppies)

[onearmedbandit]

..........................

[mark247]

In my opinion the rear brake is very important and effective, if you know how to use it properly. All the stoppie shows is that the front tyre isnt loosing grip with the road, and stoppie is defently not the quickest way of stopping.... applying both the front and rear braking properly will stop you much quicker than just apply the front brake. I agree in a corner the rear brake does cause a few problems, but i still believe if you use them both properly at the same time, you are much better of.

[onearmedbandit]

Use of the rear brake in a corner can have the effect of tightening your line. Also combining the two before entering a corner, and even dragging them both into a corner can lower the bikes CoG giving a tighter line. I use mostly the front, on both the track and road but the rear is always covered. And from my experience the rear brake has nowhere near 50% of the overall stopping power. A 70/30 split I think would be closer.

[NighthawkNZ]

i believe front only is better because rear break only breaks up to 50% of bike where as front break used skillfully can break 100%(over 100% is stoppies) the front wheel caries all weight of bike there for its more efficient breaking its at 100% breaking if u touch the rear it will skid and its much harder to use both than just the front u can also skidd out the rear with the front by shifting the weight of the bike mid corner eg turnin into corner while breaking shifitng weight to front which lifts the rear and lightens the traction on rear more than the road traction. i know the road code said 80 20 but they dont race! the bike is breaking 100%of the weight on the front wheel if it was 80% u wld lock up the front before the stoppie.

While I partly agree with your above statement... braking both together... front first then applying the the rear, it is probably the best form of braking while changing down for engine braking... (though doing all that in an emergency is next to impossible and is using just slamming on the anchors)

those on the big VTwins probably use more engine braking in general use than standard braking... I know I do and those that follow me know as well as I pull up fast with out actually using the standard brakes and I usually use the brakes just to do the final stop

I also trail the rear brake a little if I feel I am over cooking a corner to shave a bit of speed off....

Oh and releasing the the chute also helps, and if you have an anchor throw that over as as well :D

[cowboyz]

The rear brake is good for scrubbing off speed. Front brake is for stopping. In saying that I find the most I use the rear brake is if I feel like I om going to overcook a corner I drag the rear to scrub off my speed. If you braked on the front you load the front up.

[merv]

I always use both brakes (without breaking them) but not exactly always for the same length of time because once into a corner depending on how it all feels I do trail the back brake a bit. It all comes from experience - do what feels right at the time. The back brake in my view certainly helps you get around corners better.

[onearmedbandit]

And by loading the front you reduce your suspension travel which changes the way the forks allow the front wheel to follow the road surface. Late model (and race spec) front suspenders allow you to get away with a fair bit of front braking while leant over.

[JimO]

what about bikes with linked brakes what ratio do they use

[Hitcher]

Both brakes to stop. Front only to lose speed for cornering. Sometimes a touch of rear only to to set up the bike for a corner.

[moT]

yes true it would be hard to get 100% controled breaking on the front (not letting the rear lift) in emergencies but if it were second nature it wld be a lot more effective for controled stops rear break could be used to get a tighter line by producing oversteer but as for slowing down faster and more controled breaking front is better

[onearmedbandit]

Using both brakes in an emergency is the best method, the braking forces 'pull' the bike closer to the ground, thereby increasing the contact patch available. You'd be suprised how much quicker you will stop with both brakes working hard. As far as using the back brake during corners it's not about provoking 'oversteer', especially on anything other than a motard/etc, but it's about tightening your line. 'Trailing' the rear brake has that effect, nothing to do with oversteer.

[moT]

and even breaking into a corner as the angle of ur bike gets lower u can reduce the ammount of front break applied to cope with the strain on your tyres

[moT]

Using both brakes in an emergency is the best method, the braking forces 'pull' the bike closer to the ground, thereby increasing the contact patch available. You'd be suprised how much quicker you will stop with both brakes working hard. As far as using the back brake during corners it's not about provoking 'oversteer', especially on anything other than a motard/etc, but it's about tightening your line. 'Trailing' the rear brake has that effect, nothing to do with oversteer.

how does trailing ur rear break tighten ur line?

[onearmedbandit]

Indeed, it's all about letting your suspension do one job, and in a corner the most important job it has got is keeping the wheel in contact with the road. Using your suspension for two jobs, braking and road contact, places a higher workload on it, and it can't do its most important job properly.

[cowboyz]

just re read what i posted and thats not what I meant.. kinda.

Start with the premise that you should never brake mid corner. Brake with front to setup entrance speed for the corner. Lay the bike over. If at this point the speed is not right then the rear brake is valuable for scrubbing off speed without loading the front of the bike up. Thats more or less my thorey anyway. Well that and trying to ride without the use of brakes at all developing a smooth controlled ride that is enjoyable and keeping corner speed up rather than stop start action.

[NighthawkNZ]

what about bikes with linked brakes what ratio do they use

I don't know but I don't think I would like them (personally) I want control of when I apply the front, rear or both brakes

[Hitcher]

yes true it would be hard to get 100% controled breaking on the front (not letting the rear lift) in emergencies but if it were second nature it wld be a lot more effective for controled stops rear break could be used to get a tighter line by producing oversteer but as for slowing down faster and more controled breaking front is better

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you.

[stevedee]

The use of the rear brake can on some occasions "straighten out" the bike as it starts to move around on reasonably severe braking. I use it, not a lot and not hard. Not using the rear brake leaves you with one less tool up your sleeve. Max braking is obviously from the front, but if that is all that motorcycling was about competence would be attained as of right by ALWAYS using the front brake only, and there would be no rear brake on all motorcycles.

Sometimes the back brake is the only option, and I mean if you use the front in certain situations you will drop it. Have a think. Sometimes trailing a rear braked wheel is better than sliding a front. Especially in slower manoeuvres. Even for doing a U turn as boring as it might sound.

That's my 10 cents for what it is worth. Maybe 9 cents.

spd:-)

[cowboyz]

Oh and releasing the the chute also helps, and if you have an anchor throw that over as as well :D


This method works great for you but not so well for the guy following you.

[NighthawkNZ]

This method works great for you but not so well for the guy following you.

:innocent: :mellow:

[onearmedbandit]

how does trailing ur rear break tighten ur line?

By reducing your speed and not upsetting the geometry of the chassis. And by trailing I mean only lightly applying it. But essentially you should have all your braking done before you're in the corner. Using the back brake is a sign you've overcooked it.

[NighthawkNZ]

Sometimes the back brake is the only option, and I mean if you use the front in certain situations you will drop it. Have a think. Sometimes trailing a rear braked wheel is better than sliding a front. Especially in slower manoeuvres. Even for doing a U turn as boring as it might sound.


I find I use the rear more riding on gravel roads, would rather have a rear wheel skid than a front wheel skid or lock in gravel... :doh:

[moT]

By reducing your speed and not upsetting the geometry of the chassis. And by trailing I mean only lightly applying it. But essentially you should have all your braking done before you're in the corner. Using the back brake is a sign you've overcooked it.

in that situation i still dont use the rear i just slightly use the front it slightly shifts the weight but if done smoothly its fine i would rather have that than a rear tyre starting to slide..

[moT]

i admit rear break does have uses like slowing me down if ive run off the track or in traffic but i dont feel there is a need for it in raceing apart from going off the track

[cowboyz]

the rear can slide a LONG way before losing control. Front, not so much. I'll take a rear wheel slide everytime.

[NighthawkNZ]

the rear can slide a LONG way before losing control. Front, not so much. I'll take a rear wheel slide everytime.

me too... :yes:

[onearmedbandit]

but i dont feel there is a need for it in raceing apart from going off the track

There are a number of professional racers out there who I think would argue that.

And as far as the rear locking up mid corner if you 'trail' it, sure, if you're hamfisted at the controls.

[yod]

i use both pretty much all the time (unless im feeling lazy/at slow speeds) and only use either in a corner if i've ballsed it up, but i'd rather use the rear, im not really keen on the front letting go when the bike is in a corner, the back i can handle

as far as 'the geometry of the chassis, etc", buggered if i know, i just ride the damn thing:laugh:

i aint no expert, thats just what i do

[James Deuce]

Using both brakes in an emergency is the best method, the braking forces 'pull' the bike closer to the ground, thereby increasing the contact patch available. You'd be suprised how much quicker you will stop with both brakes working hard. As far as using the back brake during corners it's not about provoking 'oversteer', especially on anything other than a motard/etc, but it's about tightening your line. 'Trailing' the rear brake has that effect, nothing to do with oversteer.

All that and if it's a real emergency don't bother changing down gears. You should be concentrating on extracting maximum braking. Don't forget to pull the clutch in as you come to a stop.

[HDTboy]

Lets see what Jay Lawrence thinks

[Edbear]

Personally, I try hard not to break anything while I'm riding...:yes:

[mark247]

When ya going 100kmh and need to stop quickly, i assure you distributing the braking between the front and rear wheel is a lot safer/more effective than braking only on the front. Personally i use my rear brake a lot, you just need to know how to use it correctly.

[gixermike]

If you wanna play with trail braking...just take your crosser or mountainbike out...go too fast into a corner on some mud (reduces the speed required..but keeps the rest pretty much the same)...and trail the front and back into corners while nicely cranked over...then work out which hurt more...I'd go for the back brake option being less painfull......

but hawling up in a straight line it's both..makes the bike sit down nicely..

and if you've over cooked it that much you could always just use both brakes full on in a straightline to the edge of the seal or track(not the gravel edge), and then just turn in late....

[terbang]

Started out reading this thread and need to ask the question. Braking in what situation? On the road, track or in the carpark? Quite frankly if you are up there riding a 400 on the road and are having to ask a basic braking question like front or rear brakes here, then back to riding school http://www.riderskills.co.nz/ you should go before you get yourself into a bit of a spot. Hint: If you really only needed to use a front brake then I am absolutely sure that the manufacturers, who are forever trying to save weight, would have convinced the certifiers to do away with rear brakes years ago.

[Squeak the Rat]

Squeaks 6 reasons to use the back brake:


Even if it's only 10% of your braking power, that 10% may save you a trip to hospital
Back brakes are better option mid corner. Some famous racer commented that you won't lose the front end of a bike if the front suspension isn't loaded**. Two ways of loading the front are using the front brake or cutting the throttle.
If you always use the rear you will become competent at applying it. So when you do need it mid-corner you won't accidentally brake too hard and invoke a slide resulting in an off.
If you have become competent with it's use and practice regularly, you will apply the back subconciously in an emergency stop, allowing you to focus on controlling the front which is where most of the stopping power comes from. In most emergency braking situations a rear wheel skid is easily controlled, and your thinking brain has more to worry about.
I find the back brake works wonders in downhill corners. Entering the corner with a little throttle unloads the front (which is carrying extra load because of the downhill) but also usually results in excess speed half way through the corner. A little rear brake slows the bike without unsettling it too much.
A god send with U-turns. Constant throttle at a few thousand rpm, apply a bit of back brake and control your speed with the clutch.

All IHMO only.

** Assuming no road contamination (oil, potholes etc)