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andy1
5th July 2003, 18:53
hi all, i was wondering if many riders use a radar?
and if so what brand? what are the good radar's for motorcycle's.
valentine1 i heard to be the best. but i dont know much about the rest of the radars on the market.
can anyone help me out. thanx
ciao ciao

Kwaka-Kid
5th July 2003, 20:56
somthing tells me you wont be needing one if its just for the CBR250 your talking about :Oops:

haha!  sorry mat eno good info except taking the piss from me :(

Redstar
5th July 2003, 23:02
but I never break the speed limit so why would I need one?

Blackbird
6th July 2003, 10:37
Yep, it has saved me a fortune.  Here's an installation article I wrote for my particular bike if it's of any help to you.

 :rockon:

Marmoot
6th July 2003, 23:34
For the radar, the best (I heard) is Stalker. That's what the cops use nowadays :)

As for radar detector.....I don't know :p

Dave
7th July 2003, 09:52
I had a bell 850 until some cock broke my car window and stole it,But i had that on the bike as well.Really good, not too many false alarms and came with an ear socket.

Duke of Rogan
7th July 2003, 10:59
Originally posted by Redstar
but I never break the speed limit so why would I need one?

best you change your signature then Redstar ;-)

do any of these detectors pick up radars/lasers behind you?

I often get paranoid about coppers when going past on-ramps on the motorway, or opening it up on the open road in traffic.

Dave
7th July 2003, 11:28
My bell radar picked up behind you,but only had about 1/4 of the power-something about nuking you gonads.

Coldkiwi
7th July 2003, 12:27
Originally posted by Duke of Rogan


I often get paranoid about coppers when going past on-ramps on the motorway, or opening it up on the open road in traffic.

That's why its good to look behind you! I'm dismayed at the number of riders that scoot up the side of traffic on on ramps (my wellington arterial going north in particualar) that don't stop to see if they're about to provide ticket fodder for waiting cops (probably a cop there 1 in every 5 trips)!!

As for not needing a detector on a 250, don't be so thick man! firstly, I can do 190kmhr on the zxr250 and easily get up to licence loosing territory on the open road. Secondly, Andy1 is pretty damn quick on his 250 (when its the right way up at least :P ) and clearly has no respect for speed limits (like so many of us!), so a detector makes a lot of sense.

I think you're mistaking displacement for outright speed when it more often than not relies on rider attitudes. Andy1 for instance is quite nuts and has no regard for his own life as evidenced by our ride back from hikuai to Kopu last month!

andy1
7th July 2003, 19:51
go on coldkiwi, im not that crazy!

thanks for the info!
im buying a supermotard very soon, so not too sure if i can put it on.
thinking about buying the small l.e.d that fits inside your helment but where do you get them from? anyone know.
thanks
ciao ciao:)

Duke of Rogan
7th July 2003, 20:02
Originally posted by Dave
My bell radar picked up behind you,but only had about 1/4 of the power-something about nuking you gonads.

good point, but I'm sure I've heard of one that has a remote sensor that you mount at the vehicles rear, and the display or voice tells you if the radar/laser is in front or behind you.

Marmoot
7th July 2003, 22:31
Anyone that doesn't speed on Motorway seems sensible to me, Coldkiwi :rolleyes:

But, ah, Open Road....now that is a totally different matter :niceone:

Coldkiwi
9th July 2003, 17:46
Originally posted by andy1
go on coldkiwi, im not that crazy!



like the boys say... 'YEAH RIGHT!'

ask marmoots friend on the GSXR 1000 who you overtook in the other lane going into the sharp left hander with the 4x4 coming the other way!!

Certainly BOLD... but I dunno if you'll get to OLD that way! :o

Marmoot
9th July 2003, 22:33
I thought that staring at the bike in front of you is dangerous? :p
As for me, I just try not to notice them at all :p :p :p

Coldkiwi
10th July 2003, 17:35
I wasn't so much staring (ok, maybe I my eyes were popping out of my head) as I was frantically scanning the corner to see when the 4x4 was going to show its ugly face around the corner in the lane that Andy was in!

I thought I was about to watch a close up Nhuahn replay with a very different outcome!:gob:

andy1
10th July 2003, 19:15
what!
noway i saw no 4x4 coming the other way!
so if there was a 4x4 why didnt i hit it? coldkiwi.
it was just some crazy passing!
BUT it fucks me off when i get some dude on a big bike 1000cc etc
and he is holding me up! they go slow in the corner and hammer the power on when they exit the corner! (wkid was saying something about this.)
so the only way to pass them is to go around him in a corner!

ciao ciao

Marmoot
10th July 2003, 22:32
Make sense. But I thought this thread is about radar detectors?
:D

C'mon guys.

wkid_one
16th July 2003, 13:28
I just got an Escort Passport 8500 landed from the US - $632 to my door.  Already wired for the bike and well better than the Unidens (it is made by Bel) for range and sensitivity from www.best-radar-detectors.net (http://www.best-radar-detectors.net)

Good price. 

I also am getting a stem stand made (saw www.radardirect.co.nz (http://www.radardirect.co.nz) for a plan) for $25 (Luckily my partners dad runs an engineering firm).  Mounts the detector out of the gauges and away from the turning bits and also fits camaras and cellphones also - and should be universal enough to fit any bike I own.

wkid_one
16th July 2003, 13:30
PS Andy1 - I hope I wasn't holding you up when we went to Kawhia.....apparently my riding sucks - so I may well have been holding you up - sorry if I was - I now know, thanks to the enlightenment of others, that I am not a good rider....in future I will make sure I stay to the back on the group..

Duke of Rogan
16th July 2003, 14:01
Originally posted by wkid_one
I now know, thanks to the enlightenment of others, that I am not a good rider....in future I will make sure I stay to the back on the group..

LOL :D

why do you need a radar detector then? won't you fall off when going over the speed limit? :eek:

wkid_one
16th July 2003, 15:22
I got it for my car.....I still think I am a good car driver - I just suck at riding apparently.  Plus - I like the noises it makes!

Duke of Rogan
16th July 2003, 15:36
ROTFL!! (is that how its spelled?) :blah:

PS. I'm just trying to get my post count up.

PPS. not really, I do want a radar detector, but cant afford one yet. first need a new battery so I can atleast start my bike and some gear so I dont get wet or hurt and look cooler :blah:

wkid_one
16th July 2003, 16:38
Post count???  (LOL - pleads ignorance!! Yet gets another one in)

PLus for the bike - the radar detector can indicate when a cop is approaching so I can make sure I speed up to the minimum motorway speed of 40kph - given I am soooo bad a rider (apparently) - I travel everywhere at 30kph - that way I don't have to lean (which apparently neither I nor my bike can do) or react quickly

SPman
16th July 2003, 16:46
Originally posted by wkid_one
I now know, thanks to the enlightenment of others, that I am not a good rider....in future I will make sure I stay to the back on the group..

Theres gonna be a shit load of us fighting for last spot!:p

andy1
16th July 2003, 18:45
hey wkid.
thanks for the info on radar detectors.
i loved that blast to kawhia! one of my fav and marmoots.
i can bet you now that the speed we were going is a lot faster than most of these guys on this site can go!! who was saying that you sucked at riding? cause they dont know shit!

:done:

ps. i saw you getting that knee down!

Marmoot
16th July 2003, 22:25
Tell me when somebody can get his/her knee down on Harbour Bridge

wkid_one
17th July 2003, 07:57
LOL PMPL - ta Andy.......

hmmm - knee down on the harbour bridge - kinda like asking someone to get their knee down on the Himatangi Straights.

PS - www.best-radar-detectors.net (http://www.best-radar-detectors.net) are fantastic for the Escort - as it is a US product you avoid so much additional cost.  It is $299 US - much better than $1150NZ here especially with the dollar being so strong at the moment.  Now- I must ring them for my endorsement cheque.

Yarg
17th July 2003, 12:33
I have read that the escort/ passport 8500 detector is ideal for bikes.A friend has one on his BMW & works fine.

wkid_one
17th July 2003, 14:07
yeah with Radar Detectors - it is generally a matter that the more money you pay for one - the more warning you are going to get.  The Unidens in NZ, whilst being the cheapest, have one major issue...

'It's biggest weakness as we see it is that the specified sensitivity of -100db
on the Ka SWB does not give the range we expect in 2003 models. We find that
detection of the mobile speed cameras to be pretty minimal; generally around
30 to 50 meters'

Not too bad in NZ for bikes as most mobile camera's only take front pictures not rear - unless you plan on using it in your car as well.

Wicked source of reveiws of radars if you are looking is www.radardirect.co.nz (http://www.radardirect.co.nz) .  But my advice is buy offshore.

The Escort is considered the best bike radar detector coz it is already pre-wired for audio out - so ideal for helmets.  However, most detectors can have this installed for $50-100 from many electronics repairers etc around the country.

wkid_one
21st July 2003, 13:32
Details for those interested.....(ie Cold Kiwi)

Site     www.best-radar-detectors.net (http://www.best-radar-detectors.net)     NeteLectronics - based in Washington

Detector    Escort Passport 8500 (second behind Valentine)

Price          $299US  + $25US postage

NZ            $604 +$70 GST on landing

Delivery     Via UPS - took 3 days

andy1
21st July 2003, 16:14
i got myself a nice vale1, man this thing is the best radar for sure!
dont know how to put it on the bike yet tho. anyone wanna make a braket for my cbr and ill pay ya!! please!

ciao

wkid_one
21st July 2003, 16:37
Am in process of getting brackets made -need to know what year your bike is in order to determine the head stem size - 13mm - 19 mm)

No promise on the timing tho - coz the specs have just gone to the engineer for CAD design before prototyping....estimated cost is around $100 at this stage - best thing will be is it will be a universal fitting from bike to bike.....

If you need anything else made (from metal) give me a yell....am in process of scoping out everything from stands - stem stands - MX bike stands etc.....always keen to know what is overpriced or hard to get.....

<IMG height=227 src="http://www.radardirect.co.nz/motorbike/mbmount1.gif" width=160>similar to this

Marmoot
21st July 2003, 22:35
U keen on making me one, Wkid?
I need one for 99 Blade.
Dunno the stem hole measurement.....I wish I have a ruler.
I'll let you know the size if you let me know the price (and how y gonna get it here to me)

wkid_one
22nd July 2003, 08:14
13mm stem Mar....

I will let you know - I will PM you....

Marmoot
22nd July 2003, 22:21
Ok. I'm seriously interested as long as it is not $147 as in radardirect

wkid_one
23rd July 2003, 10:07
Naa, bought the Stem Stand from Radar Direct as a model - we are researching the patents and remaking a new one - prototype made and worked well on my bike....

Price should be significantly less.

Coldkiwi
23rd July 2003, 12:24
when are the stems ready Wkid??. I got the 600 back last night and with the carbies and cylinders all sorted out now i am in SERIOUS risk of getting severly busted by the constabulary! I NEED to get a detector on board ASAP

&nbsp;

SPman
23rd July 2003, 12:33
As if you weren't in serious risk of getting busted before...?:D

Yarg
23rd July 2003, 12:42
Is the imported model of the Passport 8500 the same as those sold here?? is suitable for ths types of laser guns etc the cops have??

wkid_one
23rd July 2003, 12:51
Yes it is Yarg...

CK - in Auckland at the mo - going back to pick up with my partners old man - dunno on dday - sitting with the Patents Office confirming I am not likely to get sued - LOL....then it is just a matter of finalising and tooling up.

I will keep you posted.

Did you look at the website for the 8500 I emailed you? you coming for drink tonight - can discuss then?

Coldkiwi
24th July 2003, 13:02
sorry Wkid.. i fully forgot.. I'm a bad man!

yeah, i'd actually already found the site so thats a good sign.

the $299 they quote... is that excluding US tax? if it's included then it should be less than $299 :)

wkid_one
24th July 2003, 13:05
Mine landed to NZ was $604NZ plus GST -&nbsp;tax was deducted apparently.&nbsp; Took then 4 days to ship it to me by UPS - including the weekend (ordered on the Thursday on my desk on Tuesday

Duke of Rogan
11th September 2003, 16:28
Hey Wkid_one, how's the Escort 8500 going?

I'm seriously contemplating a purchase of one via the interweb from the US for US$300 (NZ$500 + shipping)

I emailed RadarDirect for their price, which came back at $1200 so there's no way I'm buying from them!

Coldkiwi
11th September 2003, 18:01
I'm rating the escort pretty highly on my bike Duke. You start to appreciate all the features once you've had it for a while. worth the money I paid for it.. already saved my butt at least $300 leaving the cold kiwi rally!

Lou Girardin
12th September 2003, 08:09
I'm using a Valentine 1, it's got front and rear antennas, so range is the same both ways plus it shows if the cop is ahead or behind. It's the best I've used, but the NZ price is bloody expensive ($1600). My next choice would be an Escort 8500 or one of the Bels. Stalker detectors are made by a different company to Stalker radar and laser guns.
Consider a Laser jammer too. Laser guns aren't seen much out of the cities, but detectors are virtually ineffective against them and if the cops start using more of them they'll be a real threat.

wkid_one
12th September 2003, 17:02
Unfortunately for Lou tho - the detector doesn't work through human flesh...so the behind option is somewhat limited on a bike.&nbsp; Escort has the front and rear antenae also - but no good as it can't see through you when you are on the bike - in the car it works well tho.&nbsp; Plus - the audio out and 'LOUD' option are fantastic for the bike (esp now on multi and don't have VTR drowning out all sounds)

Passport is wicked - actually out performed the Valentine 1 in a recent US test - so they are on par.&nbsp; Gives you heaps of warning for Pigs - sometimes too much and you think it falsed only to speed up and find the cop another k down the road....

Laser Jammer is a waste of time on a bike (or car) unless you are just over the limit.&nbsp; It throws back a dud speed (about 45kph), if the cop is any good and pings you twice and you haven't adjusted your speed you will be pinged for running with a jammer....if you are doing over 130kph - that is a hell of a reaction to reduce speed - esp given he has you in the laser sights

Coldkiwi
12th September 2003, 17:10
yeah, only things I wish the escort would do is

1) put a little more voltage out of the speaker jack to make the beeps a bit louder in my helmet

2) tell me if it was a front or rear signal (but i suspect that could be very prone to erroneous readings when mounted in front of me)

3) come with a water proof case cause I can't be bothered wrapping it in a a plastic bag all the times I should (only a problem in winter)

&nbsp;

wkid_one
14th September 2003, 16:10
Just wired up the detector to the R1 - and about bloody time to - the bike is too quick.

&nbsp;

marty
14th September 2003, 19:48
there was a great article last year in a kiwi motor mag about the detector vs radar war. stalker make the radars and lasers that the highway patrol use, and also make detectors for them.
laser is much harder to pick up in a car, as the beam should be aimed at the number plate (best reflective surface), but on a bike the headlight refractors are the best, and they're close to the screen/detector. a manually pulsed radar (mounted in the highway patrol cars) will give good stealth mode for an operator, and may only give occasional (picked up as 'false') readings to a detector.
the bottom line is that at speed, you have to ride with your finger over the brake lever. the best way to avoid getting caught speeding (and it's not, not speeding) is to always have a car that's travelling in your direction between you and a car approaching, as the stalker radar will always pick up the strongest signal, even if it is slower. the stalker has a mode which can read the fastest speed (as a secondary target) over the strongest speed, but that speed cannot be locked until it also becomes the strongest speed. they can still take action if your speed is fast enough to warrant it - it becomes an argument about who is right though as there would be no locked speed visible if you were 'fastest' but not 'primary target'

i'll try and find the radar shootout and post the link.

wkid_one
14th September 2003, 20:07
Most cops in NZ run with the Hawk on - not on manual pulse as this is preferably used with more than one officer in the car (OSH).&nbsp; Also, the detector picks up reflective beams from the Hawk.&nbsp; And it is easier - the ratio of car drivers without detectors doesn't warrant the effort of manual pulse.

I tested the detector in the car as a cop was using the hand held laser in the info stop by Silverstream - so I drove past him 3-4 times in both direction.&nbsp; 2 out of the 4 times I pick up the laser on the car in front of me.....but you essentially have no show.&nbsp; Nothing will protect you from a Laser.......other than oncoming cars flashing headlights.&nbsp; However - given the car is stationary and the speed with which a bike can travel --- I'd rate your chances of running.&nbsp;

Aiming at the headlight on a bike is useless - as the refractive surfaces aren't perpedicular to reflect the laser back and actually disperse the beam - quite often they will&nbsp;aim&nbsp;at your helmet apparently.&nbsp; Bikes cause significant issue as they are largely plastic and fibreglass with little flat surface to aim at and reflect back.&nbsp; Cops also don't actually aim at the number plate - they aim directly between the headlights as this maximises the reflective area.

I would also rather run with a detector than not......even picks up mobile speed cameras with enuf warning to slow down.

The Hawk doesn't register speeds over 270kph - just an idea...

PS- cop using hawk was a mate

marty
14th September 2003, 20:25
the hawk is now obsolete, and is extremely rare. it was as slow a 99% of all radar fitted cars have either stalker dsr's (which can lock on a following speed - when you are accellerating away from or being caught by a patrol car), and ALL highway cars, and most other traffic cars have front and rear antennae, meaning you can be snapped as you are catching a patrol car, esp. @ night.

the fixed cameras (and the van-mounted ones) are very low power - and as they are facing across the road, if there is little traffic for the beam to bounce off, you won't know it's there till you're on it. at 120km/h you will travel 33.3metres per second, and at a conservative 2.0 seconds to respond to a radar indication, from 100m you're toast.

have a look at this link. http://www.radar.co.nz/nz/report1.html

it's not the one i was looking for, but it is quite good. try and beat the 0.2 seconds it takes for the stalker to read your speed, plus about another 1.0 second for the cop to lock on, and your detector has just told you you've been caught - nothing else.

my best advice is to keep those cages between you and the radar operator.

wkid_one
14th September 2003, 20:29
Sorry - disagree Marty - have run past many a mobile unit and the detector works fine.&nbsp; In car units are picked up about 1-2km before the car is close.

You continue riding at 110kph - I'll use the radar detector and ride at speeds I find comfortable.

marty
14th September 2003, 20:31
we'll have to agree to disagree....maybe one day we'll get together and swap stories :)

wkid_one
14th September 2003, 21:41
All I know is from speaking to the cops and personal experience.&nbsp; The manual&nbsp;pulse is seldom used - and the in car system is usually on auto - meaning with a detector you pick the car up from miles away.&nbsp; Manual Pulse is used when the car is stationary and the cop is doing a sly '100 tickets in 8 hour' saga.

Did over 1000km last week and every time a donut the detector picked the cops up WELL before they were anywhere near me.&nbsp; Had about 200-300m warning of mobile speed cameras also.

&nbsp;

Marmoot
14th September 2003, 22:35
In a good condition (straight road, open areas, etc) detectors like V2 and 8500 can pick up a radar from over 1.5km (over 2km for 8500, as has been tried by me). Cop's radar can pick you up from about 1-1.2km, but he still need positive visual identification of the target (required by law) to positively determine it is you he's after.

Of course, there is simple rule of elimination employed by them (#1 suspect would be motorcycle, then red sports car, then other sports car, then 4wd, then normal car, then campervans). This will factor into equation depending on how much a**eholeness the officer has.

In the end, detectors always give advantage to you and give you warning time, however much it is.
It only comes down to whether you can slow down quick enough.

This theory has been proven over 1.5 years of using 8500 and V2 by a number of highspeed riders in a close group with no tickets during various sightings of patrol cars and unmarked cars.

But, if you are still unsure of detectors, the easier way to avoid tickets would be to keep to speed limit in obvious areas (highways, residentials, and cities/towns) and only speed like maniacs in vacant backroads.

Coldkiwi
15th September 2003, 12:20
yup.. the 8500 picks up mobile cameras at plenty far enough to slow down in clear conditions. As for falsing... if I get ANY Ka signal its straight down to the speed limit. the warnings are infrequent enough to make me believe its a pig not to far away.

incidentally... you mentioned the hawks were outdated marty... I talked to a knowledgable soul at the cold kiwi who mentioned that sometimes the old x-band units (I understand pretty much all but decommissioned) are sometimes dragged out on long weekends to fox deviants like us who have turned their x band off in the detector due to all the erroneous signals. not a likely getting pinged scenario but a possibility. the key to remember of course is that they will almost certainly not have been calibrated prior to use and this will get you off if so.

&nbsp;

Kwaka-Kid
15th September 2003, 14:07
Originally posted by Coldkiwi
the key to remember of course is that they will almost certainly not have been calibrated prior to use and this will get you off if so.

&nbsp;

dont bet on it.

Coldkiwi
15th September 2003, 17:35
its a fair chance. those X-band units are as old as the hills and about the same size. Getting the calibration unit to have them ready before a big weekend is probably a major headache that I'd be willing to bet a few highway patrol officers won't be bothered dealing with.

another interesting fact (that is,&nbsp;heard first hand from an&nbsp;experienced electronics man who has a friend in the force and went for a tour with the radar car) is that even if they read your speed on the&nbsp;hawk (and I'm pretty certain eagle too) systems, they won't lock on to you until the speed has stabilised enough for the unit to be sure its reading the one vehicle. SO...... if you get&nbsp;zapped and really haul on the anchors, (gently won't work) your speed reading will drop so fast the unit won't lock as it thinks its getting erroneous signals. it'll only lock once you ease off the brakes. the officer may well chew your ear for his reading of 150kmhr+ but&nbsp;if his unit only says $101 kmhr, that's all he can book you for (unless he observed your bike airborne over the crest of the hill or some other extenuating circumstance that puts a speed reading second to dangerous driving).

&nbsp;

Kwaka-Kid
15th September 2003, 21:23
Coldkiwi... just asked the man himself "EVERY SINGLE DEVICE USED IS CALIBRATED THAT VERY DAY" and yes, EVEN X BAND devices... if you really want you can ask to see the logbook, altho they dont have to show you.. but who i asked said he will always show you.

and he said after testing etc you REALLY NEED TO BE LOCKING up both brakes to put the devices off... REALLY hard... like not just your average joe "brake hard!" but anyways thats from the horses mouth who actually has tried it etc

so dont give info that could get your fellow bikers tickets CK :p and keep safe ya'll!

oh and what he said goes for all highway patrol units.

Marmoot
15th September 2003, 22:29
Just a little out of topic, but I get an interesting falsing once.

Due to not lubricating chain enough, I got a dry chain on one ride. As metallic friction does cause electromagnetic signal (often experienced in Remote control helicopter hobby in form of electromagnetic noise that interferes with flight controls), it happened to create a band that my 8500 detected as Ka. Hence, I got the Ka ringing everytime I got to a certain speed range (around 140-160kph) for my whole ride that day.

That was the first and only time I got that funny thing happened.

The moral of the story? Lube your chain!!!

What?
16th September 2003, 10:09
Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
if you really want you can ask to see the logbook, altho they dont have to show you..

Umm, actually, they do. They also have to show you the radio license on demand (radar being radio transmitters etc.) And No, "sorry, it's back at the office" is not an acceptable answer. The law clearly states that record of calibration and license must be both held in the vehicle and produced on demand. You also have the right to see the reading on the equipment.:beer:

Kwaka-Kid
16th September 2003, 10:22
nooooooooooooooo you dont...

you dont have a right to see the reading on the equiptment.

Because how can bike cops give speeding tickets when following you? they can say "oh, i was matching yor speed @ 67kmph" so you get the f-ing ticket, aree you going to ask for him to wind his little fingure around the speedo till it shows 67? no, but its perfectly legal as of around 12months ago when they finally got somthing to calibrate the bikes speedo's.

so they dont actually have to show you squat all. and nope, logbooks dont have to be shown @ all.&nbsp; thats what i was told and it was from a very nice coppa aswell :) so you prove otherwise :p hehehe.&nbsp; *throws the book @ what?

hehe :) this is fun, the battle of information! haha ill prolly loose but hey, its fun anyways :D

What?
16th September 2003, 10:55
Aye, Lad, lose ye will. You see, my info comes from VERY high up in the pleece farce. Maybe one day I will tell you (in person) just how high, but meantime be satsfied that you are being bullshitted by someone other than me. (of course I am not saying your copper mate knows he's talking crap..)

Obviously, they do not have to show you a speedo reading if they have been following you (at constant speed for not less than 400 metres), but they DO have to show you a microwave or laser reading if you ask to see it. The calibration log is also covered in the rules, and the transmission license is a Broadcasting Authority issue,as microwave speed detection units are in fact radio transmitters capable of transmitting a signal greater than 60 metres. If they can't produce the license, the unit is being used unlawfully, so any ticket will be invalid.

Now, I have agreed with you about cycletreads, so be quiet!!:D

&nbsp;:argh::beer:

What?
16th September 2003, 11:26
Of course the laws could have changed. I must read some legislation...:confused:

Lou Girardin
16th September 2003, 13:43
That's surprising, in the MOT days they didn't have to show you anything. They just had to produce a certificate of accuracy if the matter went to court.
I think the RF spectrum licence is held by Police headquarters, not individual cops. The public has no legal right to see it, so they don't carry it.
Lou

Lou Girardin
16th September 2003, 13:43
That's surprising, in the MOT days they didn't have to show you anything. They just had to produce a certificate of accuracy if the matter went to court.
I think the RF spectrum licence is held by Police headquarters, not individual cops. The public has no legal right to see it, so they don't carry it.
Lou

Lou Girardin
16th September 2003, 14:05
That's strange wiked one, my Valentine rear antenna works just fine, even with the aluminised liner in my Spidi jacket. Bugger! I must have alien flesh.
The Escort has only 1 micowave antenna and 2 laser sensors, only Valentine has 2, apart from remote mounted units such as BEL.
You don't seem to understand laser jammers;
They are not illegal, they are light transmission devices and as such not subject to the RF spectrum regulations. They do not send a false speed, they actually jam the returning laser pulse which results in a blank read out.
I have been zapped by laser guns many times, the fact that the cops continuously trigger the unit trying to get a reading and the filthy looks they give, prove that it works.
The only flaw that some units have is that, a short range (50 metres or so) the latest Police Stalker guns can punch through and get a reading. Someone I know is working on dealing with that too.

wkid_one
16th September 2003, 17:36
Read the Land Transport Act - running with equipment that interferes with the Police speed detection equipment is illegal.

Also - look online - certain jammers do send back a false readout...both are technically prosecutable in NZ under

55. Tampering with vehicle surveillance equipment--- (1) A person
commits an offence if the person---
&nbsp;&nbsp; (a) Tampers with approved vehicle surveillance equipment; or
&nbsp;&nbsp; (b) Interferes with---
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (i) Approved vehicle surveillance equipment; or
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (ii) The operation of approved vehicle surveillance equipment.


There you go&nbsp;- it is illegal...sorry.

A cop can pull you over and search the vehicle if there is grounds to believe you are running a jammer.

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

wkid_one
16th September 2003, 17:51
Oh and Lou - you are infact incorrect about Jammers - you are actually talking about a Scrambler (or passive jammers) - which isn't technically a jammer - refer below

Radar scramblers, or passive scramblers are not jammers. Yes, the largest manufacturer of passive scramblers, Rocky Mountain Radar, refers to their products as “jammers, however, passive scramblers do not transmit, and thus by technical definition can not be called a jammer. No passive scrambler has ever passed a <IMG height=13 src="http://www.1-radar-laser-jammers-detectors.com/images/sml.gif" width=155>highway performance test, yet these types of products are often hyped with powerful sounding marketing words, (such as 100 foot punch through, 3 year warranty, ticket rebate program) but passive scramblers (http://www.1-radar-laser-jammers-detectors.com/passive-scramblers.html) have yet to pass a highway performance test conducted by <IMG height=13 src="http://www.1-radar-laser-jammers-detectors.com/images/sml.gif" width=155>, whose company is hired by police and countermeasure companies around the world to certify nearly all the countermeasures in our industry. A smart buyer will pay money for proven performance, not for beautiful words covering up for a lack of highway performance.

So I am fully informed - oh and PS - the full article is attached http://www.1-radar-laser-jammers-detectors.com/passive-scramblers.html&nbsp;seeing as we are getting pendantic

PS - same site rate the Valentine number three based on independant tests -BEHIND the Escort, due to slightly faster response time .&nbsp; PLus it doesn't detected the new K and ka POP3 bands or the new short burst radar gun.

&nbsp;

Coldkiwi
16th September 2003, 18:12
i won't try and confuse the issue further as I don't have firm sources but my understanding was that they CERTAINLY had to offer you to read the speed measuring equipment if it was radar or laser. as for calibration, I know of court cases that have been thrown out because the officer had not recorded the calibration data in his book. he said he had but that was not enough in court.

I'll take that braking comment as proof that its true (I did say you needed to really haul it up!)

it doesn't surprise me that we have conflicting advice from the police force though on this. as evidenced by the draft exhaust laws shambles, the front line police are not kept well informed about what they can and cannot prosecute for.

&nbsp;

Kwaka-Kid
16th September 2003, 21:12
What? -thankyou for agreeing on cycletreads, and by the sounds of things, nearly everyone does :P&nbsp; BUT :p

i wont back down :p. here we go, they can fill in the log book after the ticket is made etc @ end of day so long as calibration was done... and no they DEFINATLY do not have to show the public squat, by what you are saying, any public member could keep holding up the police by saying "i wanna see ur logbook!" and they never define that it was by the ticketedperson etc.. but yes in court they do have to present it if asked.&nbsp;&nbsp; And Lou, thats right, back in ACC and MOT days they didnt have to, and the same law still stands, they dont have to show the public squat when it comes to the reading! listen, this has happend over and over to the cop i know, real big asshole talinig shit etc, you just tell him "nope, sorry you cant see the reading" if hes being a real wanker - 2 can play that game.&nbsp; you just tell him to ring his lawyer and take you to court, and sure enuf, it gets thrown out as it has in the past... now either all the judges are turning a blind eye to the law you speak of because they love police so much, or it just dont exist! :)

i know which one i believe.

marty
17th September 2003, 12:45
Originally posted by wkid_one
All I know is from speaking to the cops and personal experience.&nbsp; The manual&nbsp;pulse is seldom used - and the in car system is usually on auto -
&nbsp;

auto?? what is auto? are these NZ cops you spoke to? the stalkers/eagles etc HAVE be locked manually, and the speed doesn't have to settle before being locked on. the only auto speed recording is done by the cameras.

marty
17th September 2003, 12:52
i'm with KK on the logbook/calibration/licence thing - you should always ask to see your recorded speed though, and also to see the patrol car speed. this is usually (automaically) turned off when the target is locked, but it can be displayed if asked for. if the cop refuses, it's probably because his patrol speed was over the limit, and it would be good fodder for court. i had a 130k/h ticket in my car once, but didn't get written up because the cops DTS (patrol speed) was 117.........

wkid_one
17th September 2003, 21:34
Auto refers to constantly surveiling the roadusers.&nbsp; Yes the unit needs to be 'locked on' - where you can get away with some serious braking if you are luck (or unlucky) to brake quicker than the cop can lock on.&nbsp; By auto I refer to being instead of not transmitting.&nbsp;&nbsp; However given the are constantly surveilling - they are transmitting a Ka signal that is recognisable to the detector.\

In saying that, I recently had passed 3 cars on the way out the valley who had their units off......b'stards and noticed for the first time the car with the rear facing unit - interesting for the rapidly approaching motorcyclist who sees the cop car a little too late

wkid_one
17th September 2003, 21:36
Yeah&nbsp;- agree Marty - ask to see everything (the worst they can say is no) - also ask to see the last ticket written by the cop as some prick may just leave the speed up from the last offender.

Also look at the ticket with a fine toothed comb......anything to get off

PS - if the cop is speeding - they can still ticket you - all it means is the cops 'reason for speeding' is investigated.&nbsp; His easy argument - keeping up with you to chase you down.

scumdog
18th September 2003, 00:03
Yo, even if the cop showed you all the documentation you thought he had to would you understand it/know if it was kosher?
The world is full of "back street lawyers" who know sod-all, take it from me that once you get pulled up your ass is toast unless the cop is nice to you OR your the luckiest guy in the world.

wkid_one
18th September 2003, 07:57
Rubbish - I got off due to ticketing errors - refer my previous thread.

marty
18th September 2003, 09:42
Originally posted by wkid_one


PS - if the cop is speeding - they can still ticket you - all it means is the cops 'reason for speeding' is investigated.&nbsp; His easy argument - keeping up with you to chase you down.


fine if they're following - a bit tough to explain if they are coming towards you, or you're approaching them from behind

(bad jokes here.......................)

and if it's raining/drizzle - ALWAYS defend. stalkers etc are notoriously unreliable in the rain, and lasers are NOT able to be used with high (eg fog/rain) atmospheric moisture content

What?
18th September 2003, 10:01
Originally posted by scumdog
The world is full of "back street lawyers"&nbsp;

Umm, yes. You are right, and so (largely, it seems) is KK:gob:

The view on the cops having to produce the radio license on demand came from a legal practioner who was advising a certain NZ motoring organisation. It seems his published opinion was wrong... I spent a bit of time last night reading relevant legislation and could find no reference at all.

As for production of proof of accuracy, they do have to provide it, but the law is very unclear as to when they must provide it, At court is obviously the latest opportunity they have. It was recommended in the past by certain boss cops that the proof be presented on demand, but it was not policy everywhere, and most likely isn't anywhere these days.

And a scary bit (I think I've posted this before), radar is accurate because the Land Transport Act says it is. It is not accurate for any scientific reason.:argh::beer:

Coldkiwi
18th September 2003, 12:18
dunno how far that goes What. I know they have a set scientific unit for calibration ( italked to them when researching the exhaust laws earlier this year)so somewhere there must be criteria that the calibration unit is checking for.

marty
18th September 2003, 12:36
the police must disclose the radar calibration certificate if you ask for disclosure prior to a court hearing. (same for a photo and all its calibration certs) it will not be carried in the car, but the daily log book should be, and should be filled out. it is worth noting that a machine (including a speedo) does not have to be calibrated at the time of the ticket, but can be done in retrospect at the first opportunity. the police though i think would be reluctant to proceed on that basis, and if you ask to see the log book on the road side, and are refused, then it would provide a reasonable arguement that the daily calibration had not been done. i would say the highway boys are pretty good on that, but the strategic traffic (round town) and general cops may not be as diligent at filling out the log books.
you cannot call the certification of the unit into question, but you can call the calibrating officer to give evidence (not at your cost - the police are proving it, although you may be hit with costs if convicted - try $1000 to bring the person from wellington!)

Lou Girardin
19th September 2003, 08:24
Don't confuse radar and laser jammers, they're very different beasts. They Rocky Mountain crap has been proved to be just that. Laser jammers are active, they transmit a wide angle pulsed beam of infra red light. If the cops thought thay could get home in court on the charge mentioned, they would have tried it by now. There are thousands of laser jammers in use in NZ.
POP3, otherwise known as short burst radar are technically unable to support a conviction. See the Valentine website for a technical explanation and a graph of speed inaccuracies that these units produce.
Lou

What?
19th September 2003, 11:01
You are right, CK, but it is not the calibration accuracy I was referring to, but rather a Uni of Sydney study which concluded that radar speed detection devices are far from infallible. They apparently tend to be fairly accurate&nbsp;on cars, but the more the vehicle size varies from average, the more likely there will be error. This means possible bad news for Bikers and Truckies.

There was a brief write-up on the study in Two Wheels magazine. Sorry, I can not remeber when, exactly, but would guess around 5 years ago.

scumdog
19th September 2003, 22:36
Regarding the cops speed on the radar read-out, the cop does not have to show you his speed,- in fact he has a button on his controls that can delete the patrol car speed if he wants to, face it shag, you got to be lucky to ride off without a ticket if the man pulls you up for speeding, - and if you defend it you have to go to the court nearest to the scene - and if you lose there is a $130 court cost.

What?
20th September 2003, 07:47
So true, Scumdog. But just imagine what would happen to our already overloaded court system if everybody who got a speeding ticket decided to go to court to defend the charge...:gob:

'course, the only defense line would be "the cop is lying because it is in the interests of his performance review to do so". Now imagine the courts getting 3000 of that line every day...

Oh well, dreams are free...:beer:

wkid_one
20th September 2003, 08:51
What's stopping it from happening?

There is a conflict of interest now in the police force as a result of the performance measurements.......

Marmoot
20th September 2003, 09:04
What WHAT said was right.

But, hey, w_kid, we all have the same thoughts but somehow there is something stopping us from doing it. :)
Maybe, it's the indifference attitude in ourselves?

Interesting how apathetic the society has become to :)

wkid_one
20th September 2003, 09:18
BTW MAr - any further update on the accident and the pursuit of new wheels?

Marmoot
20th September 2003, 10:14
Still haven't got time to bring the wrecks in to plastic welder....too busy working overtimes to get the dosh.

(Oh, and the guts....considering this is the SECOND crash in the SAME year........feels like burying my head in my a$$....not that I've ever tried it, tho)