Northland 80 km limit?

[Lou Girardin]

Apparently Northland roads incur costs, (accidents, etc), at a far greater rate than most other provinces. So one of the Plod managers is proposing an 80 km/h limit for most of their roads.
This probably seems easier and more profitable than catching the drunks, unlicenced drivers, crap cars, etc that really cause their road toll.
It really does seem that these Transit NZ, LTSA and Plod cretins are determined to impose an 80 km limit by stealth.
And if that doesn't work, 70 or 60 or 50 or a man with a red flag.

[BugSplat]

Would they not be better off swab testing what seems like ½ of the population up there that’s already driving around at 80 ! … all the resulting disqualifications, could halve the traffic density & thus increase the safety of the remaining un- hazed motoring public ?

On a more serious note it’s a fact that an 80km limit would reduce the amount of attention people give to the motoring task at hand, & accordingly actually increase the accident rate ! Just ask any insurance company how many claims they get for accidents in carparks under 10 KPH !

Sounds like they’re running out of ‘criminals’ to tax for exceeding 100 so want to increase their tax take by labeling anyone delusional enough to believe they can control a motor vehicle beyond 80 kph a criminal.
That said I’m sure that they’ll still believe that having flashing lights & a siren on a vehicle makes it immune from the forces of law & physics.

It would waste fuel… my bike isn’t very happy pulling top gear at 100 KM if
Limited to 80 would be riding around in 2nd / 3rd using as much or more fuel per minuet than in 5th / 6th at (or about) 100 KM but any trip has just increased in time by 20% which would likely also increase transport & many other business costs by a similar percentage.

Which begs the question who did this alleged officer bribe to sit their IQ test for them to qualify for admission to the roadside taxation force?

[spudchucka]

It won't happen!!

This is just another of Lou's worthless "The LTSA, Police & Govt are braindead and I know better because I write dozens of letters to newspapers" threads.

[rettun]

It won't happen!!

This is just another of Lou's worthless "The LTSA, Police & Govt are braindead and I know better because I write dozens of letters to newspapers" threads.

It better f*#kn not :(
The 80 zone from orewa to puhoi is bad enough. Maybe people should just learn to drive slowly on roads theyre unfimilar with and then there'd be less accidents. Why punish everyone for some peoples lack of common sence. I can drive comfortably from orewa to wellsford at 100km/h in a car.

Its the clowns that think because one person can do it everyone can, like when a porsche was tailgating me at 100, so i lead him into a 35 corner at 100 and he all of a sudden got the idea that just because he has a porsche doesnt mean hes god..

Maybe some of the revenue gathered from tickets should subsidise driver training/actual hands on training not like the $120 street talk course which you dont even have to get into a car to take/pass which takes 6 months off your restricted licence time :spudwhat:

[bikerboy]

It better f*#kn not :(
...... Why punish everyone for some peoples lack of common sence. I can drive comfortably from orewa to wellsford at 100km/h in a car.:

Because the Government and Plod managers are braindead. Doing their job properly requires effort and intelligence, therefore a blanket dumbing down of the rules is easier, and less work.

And just because one thinks poorly of the traffic poolice doesn't mean one isn't "over it" or a "letter writting" nut case, Spud. On the contrary it shows intelligent, independent, critical thinking..........but then the poolice arent trained for that kinda thing are they? :killingme

[spudchucka]

but then the poolice arent trained for that kinda thing are they? :killingme
How the hell would you know??

[marty]

This probably seems easier and more profitable than catching the drunks, unlicenced drivers, crap cars, etc that really cause their road toll.
It really does seem that these Transit NZ, LTSA and Plod cretins are determined to impose an 80 km limit by stealth.
And if that doesn't work, 70 or 60 or 50 or a man with a red flag.
hang on - when mr plod is out there catching drunks, unlicenced drivers, crap cars, etc, and unfortunately catching a few speeders too, you fucking well winge about that too - maybe you could come up with a better suggestion instead of bleating for your own self fulfilling purpose...

[Lou Girardin]

Self-fulfilling purpose?
When did I whinge about actually catching drunks, as distinct from checkpoints at 11.00AM on weekdays or telling legal drivers that they've failed 'youth'. Or actually checking unsafe vehicles rather than a crusory look at reg and WOF. Try reading the posts Marty.
Why are you reading my posts then Spud? I would have thought I'd be on your ignore list by now.
It was actually a member of the Police brains trust that made the 80 km/h suggestion.
Do you guys ever get embarrassed at being led by these half-wits?

[marty]

Self-fulfilling purpose?
When did I whinge about actually catching drunks, as distinct from checkpoints at 11.00AM on weekdays or telling legal drivers that they've failed 'youth'. Or actually checking unsafe vehicles rather than a crusory look at reg and WOF. Try reading the posts Marty.
Why are you reading my posts then Spud? I would have thought I'd be on your ignore list by now.
It was actually a member of the Police brains trust that made the 80 km/h suggestion.
Do you guys ever get embarrassed at being led by these half-wits?
oh i've read your posts lou, and i've yet to see some reasoned argument from you as to how traffic law should be modified for the greater good. catching drunks is easy, it's just that sometimes other people get in the way - it's like catching druggies - sometimes people NOT carrying drugs, or carrying a little bit and being told 'another joint and you'd be getting locked up' get in the way.

all you do is bitch about what (appears) to be happening to EVERYONE, but the reality is, that even when you were in the MOT, and when those of us got shite tickets in our anglias for having a headlight out, and weren't pleasured with the luxury of discretion, that we paid our bills and got on with it. maybe it's time you did too.

[spudchucka]

Why are you reading my posts then Spud?
They provide a great source of amusement!


I would have thought I'd be on your ignore list by now.
I'm not that shallow. As far as I'm concerned you are entitled to speak your mind and I'm entitled to let everyone else now how full of shit you are.


It was actually a member of the Police brains trust that made the 80 km/h suggestion.
So what! Does that mean it will happen without opposition from other interested parties? Of course not! However it does provide you another opportunity to engage in your pathetic small mans point scoring obsession thing you have going on in your universe.


Do you guys ever get embarrassed at being led by these half-wits?
I'd only be embarrassed if I was being led by a F-wit like you!

[spudchucka]

but then the poolice arent trained for that kinda thing are they? :killingme
Still waiting.............

[Antallica]

mmm you have to go like 80km/h if not lower in some of our roads anyway.... nice and twisty :D

Go Northland!

[NotaGoth]

Weird how a simple post can turn into complete and total nasty SHIT... :argh:


:calm:


80ks.. all I can say is.. "thats just stupid.." honestly yeah how many crashes in northland are from drunk drivers...?

Where I live most crashes are caused by drunks.. and poorly maintained roads.... I repeat "poorly maintained roads" I don't know who would agree..

"Each to their own.."

But yeah what would I know..

[mini_me]

Where I live most crashes are caused by drunks.. and poorly maintained roads.... I repeat "poorly maintained roads" I don't know who would agree..

speaking of poorly maintained roads anyone riden the whangarei -> ngunguru road recently a couple of those right handers have gone to absolute shit

[Lou Girardin]

The reason it turns to nasty shit is that there are some members of the Police that are not coping with the change from one of the most respected occupations to one that is creating serious loathing among much of the population.
Admittedly that is the fault of the cretins running the Police; but, unlike much of the UK Police rank and file, ours do not have the guts to publicly condemn the tax grab and misallocation of their resources.
So, by their silence they stand condemned.

[spudchucka]

The reason it turns to nasty shit is that there are some members of the Police that are not coping with the change from one of the most respected occupations to one that is creating serious loathing among much of the population.
Admittedly that is the fault of the cretins running the Police; but, unlike much of the UK Police rank and file, ours do not have the guts to publicly condemn the tax grab and misallocation of their resources.
So, by their silence they stand condemned.
The reason it turns to nasty shit is because you and one or two others use this forum (and others no doubt) to push their twisted perspective of what will always be a contentious issue.

Go start a "ex traffic cops bitch about the police" forum somewhere else.

[Milky]

Why are you reading my posts then Spud?
They provide a great source of amusement!To more than one of us I can assure you...Have you two ever met outside this forum?

[Lou Girardin]

To more than one of us I can assure you...Have you two ever met outside this forum?

No, fortunately, we haven't. While the Spudster knows my name, (and possibly lots more that he shouldn't know), I only know that he's a 38 year old Policeman that used to give his location as Manawatu, now he says it's Aotearoa, and possibly that his name is Leo. He rides the archetypal hoon bike, although seldom over the speed limit. (At least where the patrols are)
He has expressed a strong desire to meet me in a professional capacity though. Something that I will try strenuously to avoid. As I do with all Policemen.
Equally fortunately, I seldom travel through his patch. Although I may well do so in Feb next year, just for the adrenaline buzz.
See ya then Spud :sly:

[spudchucka]

No, fortunately, we haven't. While the Spudster knows my name, (and possibly lots more that he shouldn't know)
Although I have no desire to, I also have no objection to meeting Lou at any time. Lou, you know very well that publishing my name on a public internet forum would plain stupid. So Spud will do thanks.


I only know that he's a 38 year old Policeman that used to give his location as Manawatu, now he says it's Aotearoa, and possibly that his name is Leo.
Manawatu - Yes. Leo - No! Where the heck did you get that from?


He rides the archetypal hoon bike, although seldom over the speed limit. (At least where the patrols are)
Take that as being a recreational rider who happens to like V-Twins, who rides with common sense and has a profound knowledge of where NOT to go riding.


He has expressed a strong desire to meet me in a professional capacity though. Something that I will try strenuously to avoid. As I do with all Policemen.
You know I was taking the piss..........don't you??


Equally fortunately, I seldom travel through his patch. Although I may well do so in Feb next year, just for the adrenaline buzz.
February...........hmmm, better mark my calender now.


See ya then Spud :sly:
Happy happy joy joy.

[RT527]

Hey i happen to know alot of police,both traffic and general duty as well as a fair amount of cviu through both being a volunteer firefighter and a truck driver.
And one thing ive learnt is that give an honest cop a RPG= (Rocket propelled grenade) And they would all love to take out a few camera vans with them,
One thing tho would it not be better to resist the urge to speed and not get pinged by them, therefore making them obsolete.
why do you think a lot of cops have left the force,not because the grass is greener,its because they have to put up with complete and utter morons that be their bosses........ie the govt!!!!!!!.
So spud keep up the effort, and order more pepper spray for febuary(honest boss it just went of god knows how :) ).
By the way peper spray for those that want to know.....is the most intense pain one can endure, unless your on drugs.
So be safe out there and enjoy the scenery before it enjoys you!!!.
Cheers RT527.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Where I live most crashes are caused by drunks.. and poorly maintained roads.... I repeat "poorly maintained roads" I don't know who would agree..

"Each to their own.."

But yeah what would I know..

Problem is that very few people are prepared to spend a lot of money on upkeep of a two-lane twisty road (ie good motorcycling).... If you are gonna spend the money, make it straight and wide... Easier to do the upkeep too...

Rock and a hard place to some extent... get an old beemer that can handle the jandal on rough roads rather than a race bred speed machine... :bleh:

[spudchucka]

By the way peper spray for those that want to know.....is the most intense pain one can endure, unless your on drugs.
Voice of experience??

It is wonderful stuff but certainly not the be all and end all.

[marty]

Hey i happen to know alot of police,both traffic and general duty as well as a fair amount of cviu through both being a volunteer firefighter and a truck driver.
And one thing ive learnt is that give an honest cop a RPG= (Rocket propelled grenade) And they would all love to take out a few camera vans with them,
One thing tho would it not be better to resist the urge to speed and not get pinged by them, therefore making them obsolete.
why do you think a lot of cops have left the force,not because the grass is greener,its because they have to put up with complete and utter morons that be their bosses........ie the govt!!!!!!!.
So spud keep up the effort, and order more pepper spray for febuary(honest boss it just went of god knows how :) ).
By the way peper spray for those that want to know.....is the most intense pain one can endure, unless your on drugs.
So be safe out there and enjoy the scenery before it enjoys you!!!.
Cheers RT527.

RT - great post. you've hit the nail on the head.

spud - i know where the leo thing came from.

lou - to get to manawatu, you've got to get thru the waikato first, and i've got LOTS of friends here who would take great delight in the chase.......



and yup - pepper spray hurts. a lot. funniest thing i saw with it was a motorcyclist going ballistic after a pursuit, and running away from his steed up huntly way. caught up by pursuing cop, tackled him, lifted his visor, sprayed him, closed the visor.:killingme :killingme

[spudchucka]

OK, care to explain the Leo thing, please.

The funniest pepper spray event I have seen recently was two cops scraping with a big offender on the ground. One gets the spray out and gives the guy a blast in the face while still wrestling with the guy. The guy moves his head and the cop sprays himself. Last thing I saw was the cop being driven back to base with his head hanging out the window trying to get some cool air on his face. The offender got a nice slow trip back and had to wait a looong time for the hose.

I like your story Marty, that guy would have been freaking out!!

[RT527]

Voice of experience??

It is wonderful stuff but certainly not the be all and end all.
Kinda Spud....stuck me hand up at the wrong time.... thought he said any one want to go loo,he actually said anyone wanting to try pepper spray go stand by the loo
DOH!!!.
:shit: :no: :Pokey:

[Milky]

...has a profound knowledge of where NOT to go riding.
That is almost enough of a reason to make me become a police officer ;)

[Lou Girardin]

lou - to get to manawatu, you've got to get thru the waikato first, and i've got LOTS of friends here who would take great delight in the chase.......


No Marty, I don't run. It would slightly ruin my chances in court.
As for the Waikato, I know where your mates are least likely to be too.
I'm starting to look forward to Feb. NZ's version of Vanishing point.
The lone Bandito against the massed forces of law and order. :2guns:

[spudchucka]

Kinda Spud....stuck me hand up at the wrong time.... thought he said any one want to go loo,he actually said anyone wanting to try pepper spray go stand by the loo
DOH!!!.
:shit: :no: :Pokey:
Oh bugger, better listen better next time I guess. How were you in that position in the first place, was it a Fire course at the police college or something??

I've been fortunate enough not get a dose of spray but most cops get it at some stage. Just breathing the fumes in is bad enough, makes you cough and sneeze for hours afterwards.

[spudchucka]

The lone Bandito against the massed forces of law and order. :2guns:
Thats obviously how you see yourself all the time anyway, why would February be any different?

[marty]

No Marty, I don't run. It would slightly ruin my chances in court.
As for the Waikato, I know where your mates are least likely to be too.
I'm starting to look forward to Feb. NZ's version of Vanishing point.
The lone Bandito against the massed forces of law and order. :2guns:
i know you wouldn't run. i meant to say HUNT

[marty]

The lone Bandito against the massed forces of law and order. :2guns:

:crybaby: poor me. i'm such a fucking martyr

[badlieutenant]

yes the roads up north are shocking. I came down from kaikohe down thru dargaville about 2 months ago and some of the drop aways in the road had me bottoming out my forks. owch. And i love they way the councils never completly clear the road of loose road chip after a re-seal. Hit some of that on a corner and .....oh ive done that. it hurts. :stoogie:

[badlieutenant]

sorry guys. you can get back to locating bandito. Im put off buying one now incase i ever go thru the waikato. Sounds like you guys will be pulling every single bandit over. Be nice to old vfr's tho :D :Punk:

[marty]

one of the HP guys has a VFR, so he will be. another has a ZZR, another an ST1100, another a harley, none have a bandit though........

[Lou Girardin]

Gee Spud, it looks like the area Commander for Northland isn't listening to you and is pushing for 80 km/h limits on some 'high risk' roads up there.
Apparently, shortly after the multiple fatal at Waipapa, they stopped a guy doing 135 in an 80 zone. It seems that putting in more 80 zones will fix this.
Police logic, the outfit is run by oxymorons.

[spudchucka]

Gee Spud, it looks like the area Commander for Northland isn't listening to you and is pushing for 80 km/h limits on some 'high risk' roads up there.
Apparently, shortly after the multiple fatal at Waipapa, they stopped a guy doing 135 in an 80 zone. It seems that putting in more 80 zones will fix this.
Police logic, the outfit is run by oxymorons.
Gee Lou, the area commander is bound to get what he wants regardless of what anyone else wants. If all the interested parties / stake holders agree to a change then it may well happen. It wont however happen simply because a police area commander says so. You know that, I'm sure but you continue to flog your pony anywhere that someone might listen. Your final comment sums up your motivation for all your letter writing and forum posting, simply to have a crack at the police whenever and where ever you can.

[Lou Girardin]

Aah yes, consultation. I didn't think of that.
Police Manager person: Minister we need an 80km/h limit on Centenial Highway to show the public that we're serious about road safety.
Minister: Will it reduce deaths?
Police Manager person: Weeelll, no. But it will bring in an extra kazillion in fines.
Minister: (Rubbing his claws in his best Monty Burns impression) Excellent.

Things must be lurvely in Planet Spudtopia. Walking the beat with a shiny badge on your helmet. Tousled haired urchins call you Sir while their Mothers look adoringly up at you. Strong men wish they were you. Miscreants thank you for leading them from a life of road crime.
(POP! Bubble bursts, back to flogging three tickets an hour to people who hate you for it)

[merv]

To me the proof that speed camera fines are definitely revenue collecting is the Police don't care who gets billed. We run a number of cars in joint names and when my wife got snapped some time ago they sent it in my name. I drop into the station to tell them it wasn't me and it should be in her name. They didn't care about that and looked at me like I was some sort of dork even mentioning it. Same thing happened when it was my turn and my wife got the ticket. You have to actually have it signed off in front of a sworn officer and then they resend the bill to the guilty party - all a big pain in the arse to them. I said to them but surely if this is in the interest of safety you would want the right person to pay the fine and have it registered against their name, but no they don't care as long as it gets paid. Imagine if the same principle applied to criminal offences resulting in prison. Doesn't matter who serves the time as long as someone does. (Mind you I guess that's happened with a few cases with tampered evidence etc as long as Plod closes the case and it saves the hassle looking any further.)

So there is no safety lesson at all with speed cameras as far as I can see, you get the bill long after the event and you may not even remember the event that well, and chances are the wrong person can be billed anyway. The attitude is "just pay the bloody fine, that's what we are here for is to collect the money".

[spudchucka]

Aah yes, consultation. I didn't think of that.
Police Manager person: Minister we need an 80km/h limit on Centenial Highway to show the public that we're serious about road safety.
Minister: Will it reduce deaths?
Police Manager person: Weeelll, no. But it will bring in an extra kazillion in fines.
Minister: (Rubbing his claws in his best Monty Burns impression) Excellent.

Things must be lurvely in Planet Spudtopia. Walking the beat with a shiny badge on your helmet. Tousled haired urchins call you Sir while their Mothers look adoringly up at you. Strong men wish they were you. Miscreants thank you for leading them from a life of road crime.
(POP! Bubble bursts, back to flogging three tickets an hour to people who hate you for it)
You are a missguided sad little man.

[marty]

WALKING THE BEAT?????? hahahahahahahahah

why would one walk when one can drive a shiny new 's' commode.....none of this walking crap :)

[spudchucka]

WALKING THE BEAT?????? hahahahahahahahah

why would one walk when one can drive a shiny new 's' commode.....none of this walking crap :)Its because his mind is stuck in the past, I'm surprised he doesn't think cops still ride bicycles or horses.

[Lou Girardin]

Satire! S A T I R E! I know it's hard to recognise when your entire day is one long irony.

[DEATH_INC.]

I think proof of speed camera revenue collecting is where they're placed.....

[jrandom]

Imagine if the same principle applied to criminal offences resulting in prison. Doesn't matter who serves the time as long as someone does.

Well, no, it probably doesn't matter, a lot of the time, but that's different. Because, unlike camera fines, it doesn't apply to you and me as nice upstanding middle-class types.

You see, whoever gets put away most likely did *something*. Or would have done, if they'd been left to it.

[jrandom]

Its because his mind is stuck in the past, I'm surprised he doesn't think cops still ride bicycles or horses.

Some overseas jurisdictions still use horse-mounted cops for crowd control and the like, don't they?

And there's nothing that humanises a police officer to the law-abiding public more than looking ridiculous on a bicycle.

[spudchucka]

Satire! S A T I R E! I know it's hard to recognise when your entire day is one long irony.
So now you are a master of all things to do with comedy too. Perhaps you should start writing humorous columns for the national newspapers...............Oh, sorry, you already do that don't you.

[jrandom]

So now you are a master of all things to do with comedy too. Perhaps you should start writing humorous columns for the national newspapers...............Oh, sorry, you already do that don't you.

< Sits back, opens beer and popcorn >

[spudchucka]

Some overseas jurisdictions still use horse-mounted cops for crowd control and the like, don't they?

And there's nothing that humanises a police officer to the law-abiding public more than looking ridiculous on a bicycle.
Horses are used for crowd control here too, not often but they do still get used.

[marty]

< joins JR >

after LOL

[badlieutenant]

not sure I should interupt or even stick my head up here but if suddenly and somewhat unbelievably every one stopped breaking any kind of law for say 1 funding period then started back up would the police receive any money at all? or is it not entirely a quota system? kind of like how the councils spend money on raods hard out at the end of the finacial year so that their funding isnt cut back,

[scumdog]

.
(POP! Bubble bursts, back to flogging three tickets an hour to people who hate you for it)

WRONG! Well maybe for you sorry-arsed north-islander types it might be true but so far my worst day has resulted in 7 out of 8 saying 'thanks' when they get their I.O.N, most days it stands at around 9 out of ten and those that grump are either wannabe cops/lawyers or slack-jawed, mouth-breathing improvident lack-witted oxygen-thieves, and who gives a toss about them? (I run a private survey just for 'personal interest') :msn-wink:

[buggerit]

Apparently Northland roads incur costs, (accidents, etc), at a far greater rate than most other provinces. So one of the Plod managers is proposing an 80 km/h limit for most of their roads.
This probably seems easier and more profitable than catching the drunks, unlicenced drivers, crap cars, etc that really cause their road toll.
It really does seem that these Transit NZ, LTSA and Plod cretins are determined to impose an 80 km limit by stealth.
And if that doesn't work, 70 or 60 or 50 or a man with a red flag.

Ten years on and around it comes again, like miniskirts but on Judith Collins:shutup:

[Akzle]

Ten years on and around it comes again, like miniskirts but on Judith Collins:shutup:

epic thread dredge!

but yeah. fuck aucklanders. you wreck our roads for us. dome valley was perfectly safe at 140.

[buggerit]

epic thread dredge!

but yeah. fuck aucklanders. you wreck our roads for us. dome valley was perfectly safe at 140.

Still is:devil2:

[buggerit]

WRONG! Well maybe for you sorry-arsed north-islander types it might be true but so far my worst day has resulted in 7 out of 8 saying 'thanks' when they get their I.O.N, most days it stands at around 9 out of ten and those that grump are either wannabe cops/lawyers or slack-jawed, mouth-breathing improvident lack-witted oxygen-thieves, and who gives a toss about them? (I run a private survey just for 'personal interest') :msn-wink:

Do ya reckon Scumdog has mellowed,the big softy:Police:

[scumdog]

Do ya reckon Scumdog has mellowed,the big softy:Police:

Fuck-off!:motu:

[igor]

do we send a card or flowers

[Brett]

I just got back from driving roads with an open road limit of 120kph but where most traffic sat at between 150kph and 190kph. This included 5 lane highways as well as two lane open road highways. It was very safe and efficient because people had good road manners (keep left, pull left when a faster vehicle approaches from behind etc.). It just reiterated to me that speed is nowhere near our problem, our problems as I see them are:

1) NZ Drivers lack decent road craft skills in general.

2) NZ Drivers have too much arrogance (the "I am doing 100kph so why should I move left for you?)

3) NZ Drivers generally have poor manners when they are out and about in their cars.

But yeah...the party line here will continue to be "speed kills", regardless of how short sighted this view is to being the silver bullet to safer roads with better driving.

[R650R]

I just got back from driving roads with an open road limit of 120kph but where most traffic sat at between 150kph and 190kph. This included 5 lane highways as well as two lane open road highways. It was very safe and efficient because people had good road manners (keep left, pull left when a faster vehicle approaches from behind etc.). It just reiterated to me that speed is nowhere near our problem, our problems as I see them are:

1) NZ Drivers lack decent road craft skills in general.

2) NZ Drivers have too much arrogance (the "I am doing 100kph so why should I move left for you?)

3) NZ Drivers generally have poor manners when they are out and about in their cars.

But yeah...the party line here will continue to be "speed kills", regardless of how short sighted this view is to being the silver bullet to safer roads with better driving.

Your three reasons illustrate why speed is a problem on NZ roads though.
I think I'd be right in most NZ drivers want to be allowed to go fast but don't trust everyone else to be allowed to go fast, which oddly sounds just like the police depts policy...

[Brett]

Your three reasons illustrate why speed is a problem on NZ roads though.
I think I'd be right in most NZ drivers want to be allowed to go fast but don't trust everyone else to be allowed to go fast, which oddly sounds just like the police depts policy...

Definitely. Skills and attitudes needs adjusting before it would be acceptable to move at much higher speeds.

[swbarnett]

Definitely. Skills and attitudes needs adjusting before it would be acceptable to move at much higher speeds.
And yet that's the only way to adjust them. Until there's a reason (i.e. behave or you die) nothing will change.

[Akzle]

Definitely. Skills and attitudes needs adjusting before it would be acceptable to move at much higher speeds.

i could do with more skills, but my attitude aint gonna change. And i will continue to move high on speed.

[SVboy]

i could do with more skills, but my attitude aint gonna change. And i will continue to move high on disprin, in the passenger seat of mums corolla.

Edited for realism.

[Swoop]

1) NZ Drivers lack decent road craft skills in general.
2) NZ Drivers have too much arrogance (the "I am doing 100kph so why should I move left for you?)
3) NZ Drivers generally have poor manners when they are out and about in their cars.

Totally correct. Add to that: 4) Obtained driver's licence in a cornflake's packet and now believes that he/she is capable of having more skills than any previous road user. Ever.

[Akzle]

Edited for realism.

cunt.



Its a tercel.

[rastuscat]

Wot the bloke a few posts back Sed. We all wanna go fast but think everyone else is a shit driver. So let shit drivers go faster........yeah right

[scumdog]

Wot the bloke a few posts back Sed. We all wanna go fast but think everyone else is a shit driver. So let shit drivers go faster........yeah right

Good old Kiwi logic.

And everybody NEEDS to go fast, it's important to cover that 36km (or whatever distance) trip as quick as possible, I mean that arrival several minutes early is essential, not optional.....<_<

Apparently....

[swbarnett]

Wot the bloke a few posts back Sed. We all wanna go fast but think everyone else is a shit driver. So let shit drivers go faster........yeah right
You do realise that the only way drivers are going to get better is to let them have a longer leash? Put a spike in the sterring wheel and just watch how careful drivers become.

[swbarnett]

Good old Kiwi logic.

And everybody NEEDS to go fast, it's important to cover that 36km (or whatever distance) trip as quick as possible, I mean that arrival several minutes early is essential, not optional.....<_<

Apparently....
You know that most of the time it has absolutely nothing to with the duration of the journey, right?

[scumdog]

You know that most of the time it has absolutely nothing to with the duration of the journey, right?

Well it does, sorta..."Can't wait another second to get past that fuckin' slow cunt, the limits 100K and he's doing 85, whoddafuck".

[oneofsix]

Well it does, sorta..."Can't wait another second to get past that fuckin' slow cunt, the limits 100K and he's doing 85, whoddafuck".

Nope, that's him not being friendly as well as breaking the law. It is frustration with a bastard not about duration of journey, know many a person that will take the long way, slower journey, to avoid bastards like your 85k driver.

[scumdog]

I was in China a couple of weeks ago - and it opened my eyes how co-operation and patience can work.
Kiwi drivers/riders could learn a lot by adopting their attitude.

But it won't work - after all in NZ "It's my bit of road and I ain't moving over or slowing down one tiny bit and if you're going slower than me well ya better get out of my way".

And before a soap-box jockeys get going there wasn't bugger all (2) crashes that I saw. And no injury.

Maybe the 'big gives way to small' might have been part of it???

[oneofsix]

I was in China a couple of weeks ago - and it opened my eyes how co-operation and patience can work.
Kiwi drivers/riders could learn a lot by adopting their attitude.

But it won't work - after all in NZ "It's my bit of road and I ain't moving over or slowing down one tiny bit and if you're going slower than me well ya better get out of my way".

And before a soap-box jockeys get going there wasn't bugger all (2) crashes that I saw. And no injury.

Maybe the 'big gives way to small' might have been part of it???

Vanuatu is much the same, no pedestrian crossings, the pedestrian stands at the side of the road waiting to cross, not enforcing their "right" and the traffic allows them to cross, again not enforcing their "right". Same when vehicles want to join or leave the flow. Come back here and a driver comes dashing out a side st forcing their way in, pedestrians, cyclists insist on their "right of way" and stupid ads. Funny how the countries with basically no rules and no revenue gathers have the working traffic systems.

[swbarnett]

Well it does, sorta..."Can't wait another second to get past that fuckin' slow cunt, the limits 100K and he's doing 85, whoddafuck".
That has nothing to do with speed. That's impatience. I agree with you - it has no place on the road.

[swbarnett]

Maybe the 'big gives way to small' might have been part of it???
Definitely. That's the same thing I saw in Switzerland and it worked well.

[Brett]

I was in China a couple of weeks ago - and it opened my eyes how co-operation and patience can work.
Kiwi drivers/riders could learn a lot by adopting their attitude.

But it won't work - after all in NZ "It's my bit of road and I ain't moving over or slowing down one tiny bit and if you're going slower than me well ya better get out of my way".

And before a soap-box jockeys get going there wasn't bugger all (2) crashes that I saw. And no injury.

Maybe the 'big gives way to small' might have been part of it???

Yeah, this is very true...and until such time as the ATTITUDE is changed I don't believe there will be any behaviour change.

There is one other factor to consider, and that is the age of many of the vehicle on our roads. We have too many aged cars with technology 2 or 3 decades old that, realistically, cannot be expected to be as safe as the modern cars. I know this because I have personally have three vehicles that I drive on a daily basis:

1) 1996 diesel Toyota Prado. Has ABS (very rudimentary) and air bags for driver and passenger. None of the new tech that you get in many much newer 4x4's like roll-over sensors, traction control & electronic stability systems etc. (because I didn't want all of that shit).

2) 2002 VW Passat 4motion: Older technology, reasonably good ESP & ABS system, "normal" car handling - ie a family wagon, not a sports car.

3) 2007 Audi RS4 which has the full raft of safety aids from all round air bags to, ESP etc. plus BRILLIANT acceleration, suspension and insane brakes.

I have driven all of these vehicles to the ragged edge at one time or another, ranging from on the race track to select, safe back country roads. The Passat can easily and safely go about 30% harder than the Prado and the RS4 is probably SAFER at TWICE the pace of the of the Prado. The prado takes about 35m to stop from 80kph whereas the RS4 takes about 16m. Acceleration obviously isn't even close to comparable.

With such a differential in the majority of cars, trying to get all drivers to drive to the limits of their vehicles would be a nightmare.

[Moi]

When I was taught to drive - cars had chokes, crossply tyres, drum brakes and either "three or four on the tree" - several things were drummed in: Keep Left, watch your rear-vision mirror, drive to the conditions, be courteous to others... and other things like "don't slip the clutch, use the handbrake for a hill start!"

Driving in those days seemed far more enjoyable primarily because of the courtesy shown by all road users... today it seems to be dog-eat-dog and get out of my way cause I have a wank-mobile and I'm really important... are you a doctor going to save someone's life or a mortgaged-to-the-hilt-driving-a-company-car wally?

As for tail-gaters... don't get me started on them...

[R650R]

I have driven all of these vehicles to the ragged edge at one time or another, ranging from on the race track to select, safe back country roads. The Passat can easily and safely go about 30% harder than the Prado and the RS4 is probably SAFER at TWICE the pace of the of the Prado. The prado takes about 35m to stop from 80kph whereas the RS4 takes about 16m. Acceleration obviously isn't even close to comparable.

With such a differential in the majority of cars, trying to get all drivers to drive to the limits of their vehicles would be a nightmare.

I see your suffering from Risk Compensation there which is probably why so many people still crash modern cars. While all that sounds good I'd rather be in your Prado 4wd when the reaper comes knocking. It's higher up so better view of road ahead for starters and has a heavier mass for competing with who goes backwards first in a head on crash. The Audi might stop better because of its better brakes and lighter weight. But that lighter weight comes from making a less stronger body which is alright until your sideways into a powerpole or tree.
I've been in a proper head on crash in a truck. It all happened so fast that even in the car or bike I'd prob not be able to miss being hit either. Did some serious braking but the DUI in ute was still doing 120ish...
Now if we take a trip in your RS4 that's 'just as safe' at twice the prados pace and meet mr ute like I did and your fancy brakes mean nothing as at the higher speed your reaction time is going to blow out that 'extra' perceived safety margin as at higher speed you might not even engage them in time.
When the reaper comes knocking (and he cold calls, no appointments) all the fancy specs matter little, just your impact velocity and where you are pointed. If you are going to drive/ride fast and survive you need to acknowledge there is a higher risk and driver behaviour/speed is more important than the fancy gear.

[yevjenko]

I see your suffering from Risk Compensation there which is probably why so many people still crash modern cars. While all that sounds good I'd rather be in your Prado 4wd when the reaper comes knocking. It's higher up so better view of road ahead for starters and has a heavier mass for competing with who goes backwards first in a head on crash. The Audi might stop better because of its better brakes and lighter weight. But that lighter weight comes from making a less stronger body which is alright until your sideways into a powerpole or tree.
I've been in a proper head on crash in a truck. It all happened so fast that even in the car or bike I'd prob not be able to miss being hit either. Did some serious braking but the DUI in ute was still doing 120ish...
Now if we take a trip in your RS4 that's 'just as safe' at twice the prados pace and meet mr ute like I did and your fancy brakes mean nothing as at the higher speed your reaction time is going to blow out that 'extra' perceived safety margin as at higher speed you might not even engage them in time.
When the reaper comes knocking (and he cold calls, no appointments) all the fancy specs matter little, just your impact velocity and where you are pointed. If you are going to drive/ride fast and survive you need to acknowledge there is a higher risk and driver behaviour/speed is more important than the fancy gear.
Actually you're a bit off there. Don't confuse strength of body to survivability in an accident - the driver of an rs4 will have much higher chance of surviving an accident than the prado due to the crumple zones and energy absorbing nature of the body with designed in safety cell in the Audi.

I do concede your point of enhanced visibility to avoid the accident in the prado though

[Brett]

I see your suffering from Risk Compensation there which is probably why so many people still crash modern cars. While all that sounds good I'd rather be in your Prado 4wd when the reaper comes knocking. It's higher up so better view of road ahead for starters and has a heavier mass for competing with who goes backwards first in a head on crash. The Audi might stop better because of its better brakes and lighter weight. But that lighter weight comes from making a less stronger body which is alright until your sideways into a powerpole or tree.
I've been in a proper head on crash in a truck. It all happened so fast that even in the car or bike I'd prob not be able to miss being hit either. Did some serious braking but the DUI in ute was still doing 120ish...
Now if we take a trip in your RS4 that's 'just as safe' at twice the prados pace and meet mr ute like I did and your fancy brakes mean nothing as at the higher speed your reaction time is going to blow out that 'extra' perceived safety margin as at higher speed you might not even engage them in time.
When the reaper comes knocking (and he cold calls, no appointments) all the fancy specs matter little, just your impact velocity and where you are pointed. If you are going to drive/ride fast and survive you need to acknowledge there is a higher risk and driver behaviour/speed is more important than the fancy gear.

Sorry mate, that is incorrect. Modern cars, especially high end cars, have things called crumple zones and other built in engineered safety designs - areas that are sacrificial to ensure the integrity of the vehicle cabin. Just google crash test video's on youtube and compare the results yourself. Secondly...yes the truck might be heavier, that doesn't mean that it is built more "solidly". I had the very unfortunate opportunity to be one of the first upon the scene of a landcruiser accident with serious injuries to various of the occupants including one fatality. Yes, the structure had absorbed the blow of the head on extremely well, however MUCH of that energy had simply been transmitted through to the occupants. This is exactly why some of those old "yank tanks" and similarly designed vehicles from that era, while being incredibly solid, are not very good in a crash.

The rules of momentum indeed cannot be changed. P=mv2 is never going to change. However, how energy is absorbed and how the energy is dissipated around the occupants is equally important. I have also spent more than enough time at the race track to know that enhanced equipment with better specs makes a very big difference to ones safety.

[Brett]

I do concede your point of enhanced visibility to avoid the accident in the prado though

I also agree with you on this point...one of the reasons that I love driving the Prado. Also...I love that you never really feel like you want to go anywhere fast in it, I tend to enjoy road trips more in the truck than any of our other vehicles. But yeah, modern cars ARE light years ahead in terms of handling and safety.

[scumdog]

There is one other factor to consider, and that is the age of many of the vehicle on our roads. We have too many aged cars with technology 2 or 3 decades old that, realistically, cannot be expected to be as safe as the modern cars. I know this because I have personally have three vehicles that I drive on a daily basis:



Pfft, I laugh in the face of danger!:bleh:

I drive a '79 Morris Marina ute - no ABS, ESC, traction-control, air-bags blah-blah-blah...just good old single-circuit drum brakes, one speed windscreen wipers, non-collapsibe steering column and a grunty 1275cc motor!:woohoo:

[Brett]

Pfft, I laugh in the face of danger!:bleh:

I drive a '79 Morris Marina ute - no ABS, ESC, traction-control, air-bags blah-blah-blah...just good old single-circuit drum brakes, one speed windscreen wipers, non-collapsibe steering column and a grunty 1275cc motor!:woohoo:

You're a mad bastard anyway though :)

[Moi]

...I drive a '79 Morris Marina ute ... just good old single-circuit drum brakes, one speed windscreen wipers, non-collapsibe steering column and a grunty 1275cc motor!:woohoo:

Yes, but does it have a manual choke??

[R650R]

You risk compensators are missing the point, those crumple zones are only good in head on crash and if both of you are at or below the speed limit.
Should you or the other vehicle be substantially above the speed limit due to your percieved better safety that factor is negated by the higher impact energy.
But in the real world your likely to panic and do the big swerve or have a partial impact and spin into other oncoming traffic or roadside furniture. In which case there are no modern vehicles that fare particularly well in a major side impact to tree or pole.
My 44ton truck was doing 65-70 exiting a small town when hit my a ute 1.5ton doing 120ish. The impact energy felt on my side of the equation was still massive.
I would not want to be in any car or 4wd for a similar crash and believe its completely foolish to drive faster because you think the technology will save you...

[yevjenko]

You risk compensators are missing the point, those crumple zones are only good in head on crash and if both of you are at or below the speed limit.
Should you or the other vehicle be substantially above the speed limit due to your percieved better safety that factor is negated by the higher impact energy.
But in the real world your likely to panic and do the big swerve or have a partial impact and spin into other oncoming traffic or roadside furniture. In which case there are no modern vehicles that fare particularly well in a major side impact to tree or pole.
My 44ton truck was doing 65-70 exiting a small town when hit my a ute 1.5ton doing 120ish. The impact energy felt on my side of the equation was still massive.
I would not want to be in any car or 4wd for a similar crash and believe its completely foolish to drive faster because you think the technology will save you...
No, we got your point. But if you are comparing things you need to compare apples to apples.

You should Google pole impacts or side impacts of modern cars vs elderly 4 wheel drives though - think you'll find the safety cell still plays an important role.

At the speed limit? Whose limit, not ours that's for sure...

[Brett]

You risk compensators are missing the point, those crumple zones are only good in head on crash and if both of you are at or below the speed limit.
Should you or the other vehicle be substantially above the speed limit due to your percieved better safety that factor is negated by the higher impact energy.
But in the real world your likely to panic and do the big swerve or have a partial impact and spin into other oncoming traffic or roadside furniture. In which case there are no modern vehicles that fare particularly well in a major side impact to tree or pole.
My 44ton truck was doing 65-70 exiting a small town when hit my a ute 1.5ton doing 120ish. The impact energy felt on my side of the equation was still massive.
I would not want to be in any car or 4wd for a similar crash and believe its completely foolish to drive faster because you think the technology will save you...

I still disagree with you. However, yes it is foolish to drive faster simply because you have a safer car. A car is only one half of the equation, the driver and the conditions are also to be considered. You also cannot argue that newer vehicles in GENERAL are safer than those that are older.

According to your view, albeit the scenario is hyperbolized a bit...having a crash in a race prepped touring car with roll cage etc. etc. that weighs say 1100kg and an old Dodge Charger that weighs about double should result in the Dodge driver being better off given the same speed. I would suggest that this is never going to compare.

[awayatc]

Pfft, I laugh in the face of danger!:bleh:

I drive a '79 Morris Marina ute - no ABS, ESC, traction-control, air-bags blah-blah-blah...just good old single-circuit drum brakes, one speed windscreen wipers, non-collapsibe steering column and a grunty 1275cc motor!:woohoo:


A write off would be a blessing......:sweatdrop

one you walk away from of course......

[awayatc]

Pfft, I laugh in the face of danger!:bleh:

I drive a '79 Morris Marina ute - no ABS, ESC, traction-control, air-bags blah-blah-blah...just good old single-circuit drum brakes, one speed windscreen wipers, non-collapsibe steering column and a grunty 1275cc motor!:woohoo:


Beats me why you wouldn't want to crash that........:eek5:

[R650R]

No, we got your point....

That's good



We have too many aged cars with technology 2 or 3 decades old that, realistically, cannot be expected to be as safe as the modern cars... The Passat can easily and safely go about 30% harder than the Prado and the RS4 is probably SAFER at TWICE the pace of the of the Prado



You also cannot argue that newer vehicles in GENERAL are safer than those that are older.

[scumdog]

Yes, but does it have a manual choke??

You betcha!

And an ash-tray.

But no lighter.:lol:

[Laava]

1/4 lites?

[scumdog]

1/4 lites?

Fixed, can't be opened!

[Laava]

Then it has redeemed itself by having an ashtray.