Overmoderating? Bullshit I say.

[Deviant Esq]

I'm quite possibly signing my own death warrant with this, but I think it has to be said. Noone seems to be willing to stand up and say it, so fuck it, I will.

I've been watching this unfold since SpankMe announced he was standing down, and from my point of view it has not been pretty. Sure, I don't know the reason why he sinbinned cowpoos, texmo, sixpackback, The_Dover, and Finn... but every one of them upon coming back (with the exceptions of cowpoos, and to a lesser extent, Finn) has had a massive chip on their shoulder. SPB seemingly went nuts, hurling abuse everywhere, with scant regard for any of the forum rules or what got him sinbinned in the first place (whatever that was), and, surprise surprise, he's back in the bin and his last 60 odd posts have been edited out. The_Dover created an alter ego, then (if we believe him) left, and Finn seems to be not far behind, although is still around through his alter ego MissFinn.

I say it because I've never met them in person - so the only way I know of them is through KB - but with the exception of cowpoos (and that's debatable), I can't recall any of them adding anything constructive to KB anytime recently. Months ago perhaps... but the only things I can remember out of any of them recently is a constant barrage of abuse, swearing, abusing other members, and calling people gay. Hate to be the one to buck the trend as there seem to be a lot of people grumpy about it, but personally, I won't miss all the abuse that's really flared up recently.

There's been a big increase in the number of alter egos people have made up too, just to carry on the abuse, or for whatever reason. Some don't seem to be alter egos... but there are people signing up to the site and using their first post specifically to abuse the shit out of someone. Personally I think that sucks.

Sure there are caustic people on KB, hell, it's fucking biker site. But most of them manage to keep themselves in check, and actually have constructive things to add. That's the key, to me. White Trash is a pretty good example of that (apologies Jimmy, I've never met you either). He seems pretty short and to the point at times, and been known to make abusive remarks at times too... but he controls himself, and the amount of valuable contributions he makes on KB, especially in the racing forum, means he adds to most discussions he chooses to post in.

So, are the mods overdoing things? In my opinion, they have to be heavy handed with what's been happening recently. I don't know if I would put up with half of the constant and often mindless abuse they endure on here. I have met a few in person (yes, two are senior moderators), and they're all great people.

So will I join the mob and start hurling abuse at the moderators? Fuck no.

Stop the abuse, and wake up. There's more to life than that.

[Indiana_Jones]

true... the mods are doing what they can... sometimes i dont see logic though in putting fun threads that are on topic and relevant into PD... but i still think they're doing what they can..

good post..

[Big Dog]

Well said.

[fozz rock]

Mmm i just got out of bed....:zzzz:
whats go on....:innocent:

[chanceyy]

gezzzzz i musta been sleeping:zzzz: .. kinda missed all the shit :gob: .. or else not read the right posts ..


met uncle poosy:yes: .. dunno if them dorklanders are having a bad effect on him ;) :dodge: but great guy, still abuse for the sake of it .. ahhh shit this is a fantasy world ignore it & get out in the real world .. there are roads to ride .. :yes: :rockon: :whocares:

[Grahameeboy]

He he Chancery....you must have too much 2-Stroke smoke in your head this am........and it's good eh.

Deviant, agree does seem that the Sinners have a bone to pick............Finn's other alter ego was Village Idiot..........leave you to decide on that one.

I think it is okay to politely question the Mods...............I remember when Joni sent me a pm when I said "yeah, 3,000 posts", suggesting I was just trying to get my post up and that she could take some out....I just pointed out that my daily post count had gone down from 10 ro 6.............I think that is fair to pm back but abuse etc is a no no.

Dover, have met him and he is okay and coming from the Shetlands he needs am alto ego....but it is the quiet ones that are the worse.

Finn, never met him but he appears to think NZ sucks and everyone is gay...guess, despite owning several companies when you are short life is tough....my offer of a beer still stands Finn old boy.......still he has employed Dover....

Six Belly, met him, he is just a shit stirrer and not to be taken seriously......I like him....not in a gay way though...........think he should show more of his feminine side though.

Cowpoos, he is just a wide boy. Met him at cross unveiling.....he is cool and would be a good 'Fun Police' for the site.

[pritch]

I was totally unaware of the sinbinnings, apart from WINJA. Considering the time I spend on KB I seem to know stuff-all about whats going on...

Never mind, I'm off for a ride to Ohakea today and the sun is shining which is a bonus :yes:

[Blackbird]

It's not a question of who is a good guy in real life and who is not. It's purely about poor behaviour on KB which sad to say is NOT real life when you are able to hide behind a computer screen and hurl abuse about. When we signed onto KB, we all agreed to a set of behaviours. If people can't abide by the agreed conduct, they can hardly cry foul when action is taken.

In real life, I'd still be happy to meet up with most of the main perps and buy them a beer but on KB, I'll do what I have to do. I recently became a mod because I've seen an overseas biker site to which I belong virtually destroyed because of poor behaviour. I care enough not to want it to happen to KB. It really is that simple.

[Grahameeboy]

I was totally unaware of the sinbinnings, apart from WINJA. Considering the time I spend on KB I seem to know stuff-all about whats going on...

Never mind, I'm off for a ride to Ohakea today and the sun is shining which is a bonus :yes:

WINJA is more than sin binned.....you got right idea, enjoy and be safe....

[Grahameeboy]

It's not a question of who is a good guy in real life and who is not. It's purely about poor behaviour on KB which sad to say is NOT real life when you are able to hide behind a computer screen and hurl abuse about. When we signed onto KB, we all agreed to a set of behaviours. If people can't abide by the agreed conduct, they can hardly cry foul when action is taken.

In real life, I'd still be happy to meet up with most of the main perps and buy them a beer but on KB, I'll do what I have to do. I recently became a mod because I've seen an overseas biker site to which I belong virtually destroyed because of poor behaviour. I care enough not to want it to happen to KB. It really is that simple.

True.....take Six Belly, in person great guy and shame he results to some abusive posts rather than use his intellect to add value............

Having said that it is the same old offenders which amounts to a handful and as shown by the WINJA incident those who go beyond what is too far get dealt with so I am sure KB will not even get close to destroying itself.

The one thing that is silly with these guys is that they still register under alto ego's............just take your punishment guys and Six Belly, when you come out.....chill

[merv]

Well if its rubbish I don't read much of it so hardly tell what was going on. I've only been slightly irritated when seemingly good threads get binned or posts are taken out because they aren't quite on topic, but I prefer them being left alone and let the natural conversation flow as if we were talking face to face.

Why the boys were binned I don't know but I sensed their frustration at being moderated too much that probably just made them worse.

You know I still don't know about the Winja incident - it just shows I don't follow this all very closely, I just don't have time. I never did find his comments very useful, whereas Finn I have enjoyed his comments at times.

[Grahameeboy]

Maybe the Mods are just trying to excercise a bit more 'No No's' to make sure that things don't get a chance to get out of hand with Spanks hand over.

99% of us don't resort to abuse to enjoy of even let of steam on this site......I like to troll a bit (?), hopefully make sensible posts and have the odd poke in jest........

Those regular sin binners really only have themselves to blame I say.....and it is only a site..............they still have their bikes to ride...........so not as if they are really locked up eh

[Matt Bleck]

Can no one take a joke, or a good old ribbing? It's the Kiwi way, take the piss, give out some shit.

I've meet all but Finn, and I'd say he like the others, loves a good wind up... but some people just can't see that, they take it all to heart... get over it FFS. Don't you see that when you bite your just opening yourself up for more.

Now because of a whole lot of insecure people KB has become over moded and really pretty boring........

[Grahameeboy]

Can no one take a joke, or a good old ribbing? It's the Kiwi way, take the piss, give out some shit.

I've meet all but Finn, and I'd say he like the others, loves a good wind up... but some people just can't see that, they take it all to heart... get over it FFS. Don't you see that when you bite your just opening yourself up for more.

Now because of a whole lot of insecure people KB has become over moded and really pretty boring........

I like more...

True Kiwi's (not all) are not the best at being ribbed.....

I do agree with you though.....

[McJim]

I've been busy - WTF happened?

I'm going to have to up my game - I haven't even had an infraction yet

Funny innit how the biggest shit stirrers have the most bling.....It's just entertainment really. Even the being sin binned is part of the fun.

Regardless of the bullshit and abuse KB is still a great place to organise meetings, rides or even a piss up at The_Dover's house...which I'll call the Sin Bin since 50% of the binned sinners live there!

[Grahameeboy]

I've been busy - WTF happened?

I'm going to have to up my game - I haven't even had an infraction yet

Funny innit how the biggest shit stirrers have the most bling.....It's just entertainment really. Even the being sin binned is part of the fun.

Regardless of the bullshit and abuse KB is still a great place to organise meetings, rides or even a piss up at The_Dover's house...which I'll call the Sin Bin since 50% of the binned sinners live there!

Agreed.....thought it was 75%.........

[SlashWylde]

Good post Deviant, totally aggree.

[MotoGirl]

When we signed onto KB, we all agreed to a set of behaviours. If people can't abide by the agreed conduct, they can hardly cry foul when action is taken.
I'm with you on this one. Like I said in a post the other day, the mods are looking out for the best interests of all KB members.

Hell, I don't see a problem with being brutal on repeat offenders. Only I'd have a "three strikes, you're outta here!" rule and ban them permanently. :rockon:

If these people weren't deliberately bullying people, hurling abuse and antagonising the mods (and yes, the mods reacting to it) the mods might loosen the reins a bit. Just my opinion...

[Big Dave]

If any of the little dweebs bag Joni to my face I will get them to stand on each others shoulders and get in theirs.

Smart, intelligent people acting like dropkicks. Good look.

[Scouse]

If any of the little dweebs bag Joni to my face I will get them to stand on each others shoulders and get in theirs.

Smart, intelligent people acting like dropkicks. Good look.I'm with you here Dave, I think Joni is cool and I expect better from the people I know who have posted up some pretty childish insults directed at Joni.

[The Pastor]

wah wah wah im a mod and I don't like getting called names.

[Storm]

how about wah wah wah, I'm sick of this place sounding like a playground full of spoilt whining kids who need to remember they are 20-30 years old not 2-3

Bring back the bikes!!

[Toaster]

Deviant.... Well said. Well thought out. Nice one mate.

[HDTboy]

Personally I think the site is overmoderated. On the flipside, there's a lot of off topic bullshit posted here.

Village idiot is not Finns alter ego.

I'm with Timmay in saying that people need to learn how to take a joke. While the people here do exist on the other side of a keyboard, the forum itself is not real life.

[Kendog]

Now because of a whole lot of insecure people KB has become over moded and really pretty boring........
I don't think that is the case. The site has rules passed down from Spank, upheld by the moderators. If people don't like em, they should find another site or create their own.
It is always the few louder ones that attract a lot of attention, just like in real life. That is not going to change just cause we are on the net, in fact it's probably worse cause you can throw insults behind your screen thinking there will be no consequence.
The mods don't have an easy job, but I think they are doing well.

As for the site becoming boring, no way I say. You get out of it what you put in. The mix of people is great and the friends made here that are just a PM away make the site what it is.


wah wah wah im a mod and I don't like getting called names.
Another value add post.


Never mind, I'm off for a ride to Ohakea today and the sun is shining which is a bonus :yes:
Now that's the right attitude :scooter:

[Toaster]

Well, there's joke and humour and then there are the really offensive stuff. Some of you don't seem to know the difference. Not everything is permissable, otherwise it will get out of hand. Good job Mods.

[Finn]

KB has turned out like a bad episode of Shortland Street. I'm changing the channel.

[Colapop]

90% of the abuse is not happening on the forums and that's where the real issue comes in. The Mods are accused of being draconian in their ways. And they remove a few posts here and there. The real problem is the rep comments, PM's, and even phone calls in some cases that are abusive and way over the line. How would you like your wife or family abused because someone has an ego problem and thinks they can hide behind the 'anonymity' of the internet?

[Virago]

Good post DE.

The problem as I see it is that the new site management structure has magnified the contempt that a minority of site members have for the Mods.

When Spank ran the site, he obviously put up with lots of childish petulance, but at least as site owner he was treated with some reverence (as he should).

Now control has been passed down to the Mods, they seem to be regarded with a growing contempt, with that vocal minority of members believing that they can abuse and bully both the mods and other members with complete freedom.

If the mods react with some harshness at times, it is to be expected.

How long will the mods put up with the abuse? It's something that we all need to consider. The future of the site is at stake here.

[Kendog]

90% of the abuse is not happening on the forums and that's where the real issue comes in. The Mods are accused of being draconian in their ways. And they remove a few posts here and there. The real problem is the rep comments, PM's, and even phone calls in some cases that are abusive and way over the line. How would you like your wife or family abused because someone has an ego problem and thinks they can hide behind the 'anonymity' of the internet?

0 tolerance for that kind of shit I say.

Ban!

[Kickaha]

Personally I think the site is overmoderated. .
What sites are you comparing it to, out of 6 or so sites I belong to it is the least moderated:yes:

[Deviant Esq]

there's a lot of off topic bullshit posted here.

I'm with Timmay in saying that people need to learn how to take a joke. While the people here do exist on the other side of a keyboard, the forum itself is not real life.
You know, I agree with this as well.

But the point is that it's not the fault of people who "can't take a joke." As I stated in my original post, KB has plenty of members who can be abrasive at times - SpankMe himself said only recently (over a beer) that he had to keep himself on a leash or he'd turn into another Dover or Finn. Like I said, biker site, abrasive people are normal. But it's restraint that's the key. I really can't blame some people for "not taking the joke" sometimes, when the abuse has been heaped on just a little heavily. There's a difference between a bit of a ribbing between mates (hell, when the sinbinners took the piss out of each other we all laughed), and abusing someone you only know on the forum.

Pisstakes and that sort of thing are fine, hell, I quite enjoy taking the piss sometimes too, but I keep it under control and only to the people I feel I know well enough. The shit that's been going on though - abusing the mods especially - is against the forum rules, plain and simple, and has been for a long time. I'm surprised some people haven't been sinbinned sooner, especially for the stupid mindless abuse Joni endures. I've met her, and I'm happy to say she's a lovely person. She does speak her mind (as any South African worth their salt should do) though, and it seems to me it's people not being able to take that, rather than not being able to take a joke.

Cola makes a very good point too. That sort of stuff goes beyond the forum laws... it's actually illegal too. That shit just does not wash, doesn't matter who you are.

I'm glad that there are still people around who support what the mods are doing.

[HDTboy]

What sites are you comparing it to, out of 6 or so sites I belong to it is the least moderated:yes:

I'm not comparing it to any sites, just giving my own opinion.

[Mumbles]

What I miss???

Without people to run the site, we have not site. if you wanta play you got to live by the rulz.
I dont post much but love to read whats been said. I am open minded enough to understand both points of view, but smart enough to keep it shut when needed.
Thanks Spank for the site :love: , thanks Kb's members for making it fun, thanks to the new GOD's for keeping it the way it should be... is...
:niceone:

[Colapop]

9 out of 10 statistics are statistically correct.. is that the same for sites?

[Big Dave]

9 out of 10 statistics are statistically correct.. is that the same for sites?

But 87.3% are made up on the spot.

[Mr. Peanut]

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[Big Dave]

A new high water mark for bollox!

[Mr. Peanut]

You think so? Their (the anti-social cunts) actions might be disruptive, but I think stretching the boundaries gives us all a bit more room to breathe.

[Beemer]

I have to agree with Deviant on this one, the level of personal abuse lately has been pathetic. Over the years I have had some heated debates with members whose opinions are the total opposite of mine. This has continued into PMs so we don't bore other members, and in most instances, we have agreed to disagree and in some cases become friends, despite our views.

In the last six months this respect has been totally lacking from some members. I got red-repped SEVEN times in one thread by one person named here - which I assume is why he got sinbinned. The red repping I could live with, but the comments with each one got more and more personal each time and there has to be a point where you say enough is enough.

I've been called a liar on here and in PMs and despite trying to explain my views and apologise for anything that may have been perceived as offensive, I just got more shit. If it was the person you had the disagreement with in the first place, fair enough, but when it starts to include their friends and family, that's when they need to step back and take a good hard look at their actions.

As both Deviant and Toaster state, there are jokes and there are pisstakes - it is the abusive and personal stuff that people are getting sick of. Funnily enough, WINJA, despite all the abuse he hurled, never gave me much red-rep or abused me anywhere near as nastily as some of the so-called upstanding members who don't regularly end up in the sinbin.

I DO have views that don't always agree with the norm but it doesn't mean I red-rep or abuse everyone who disagrees with me. Some of the traffic is very one-sided here - you can be abused by some people but if you retaliate or try and defend yourself, the abuse intensifies.

I am amused at some of the responses to this thread though, especially those from people who have targeted me in the past. Maybe they have had a change of heart. Yeah, right!

[oldrider]

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One word says it all, "SOCIALISM"!

That is a graphic impression of the New Zealand dream world according to the politics of the left! :nono: They know best. :yes: John.

PS: I was refering to the clip not KB. (KB has basic rules, if I don't like them I will piss off, so far I like it here)

[Mr. Peanut]

If someone gets sin binned for personally abusing another member, I don't have a problem with that.

It's the pithy moving and deleting of posts.

A post might be short, or seem meaningless, but within context adds to a thread. I don't see the need for all the officialdom with such a (as Big Dave would say) disposable medium.

Then again, while it's a bit irritating, a small price to pay for civility.

[Jantar]

Beemer, I believe I know thread you are talking about, and the person who red-repped you. Mainly because I had a similar, but not as extreme response.

I do give out red rep when I believe that a member is being abusive, or being so illogical that they are just stirring. However I give out green rep when someone has an argument that I disagree with, but they present it in a sensible and courteous way. In my opinion, that is all the mods ask of anyone here, that they present their points of view without being abusive or inciting disorder.

[Colapop]

*snip*
I am amused at some of the responses to this thread though, especially those from people who have targeted me in the past. Maybe they have had a change of heart. Yeah, right!
I would have targeted you but I'm scared of you.... Hehehehehehe

[Big Dave]

You think so? Their (the anti-social cunts) actions might be disruptive, but I think stretching the boundaries gives us all a bit more room to breathe.


OK - the messenger not the message.
And not for Joni. She a babe.
And probably not for a social networking site that nobody is being forced to participate in - in the first place.
Rail against the compulsory.

[Big Dave]

Then again, while it's a bit irritating, a small price to pay for civility.

You've nailed the cake on the head there.

[Mr. Peanut]

I think people like to bring these sort of topics up for the hell of it. If there really was an issue, people would leave.

My point was that, paradoxically, anti-socials have a place in society. You're right though. I suppose it's not really applicable to this context.

And I agree, Joni is loverly.


As a side note, I'd like to add that I had a particularly bad weeks sleep. Consequently my posts have been a bit trite as of late. Sorry about that.

Never mind.

[Disco Dan]

Well Said. Get over it.

Mods do a good job of picking out the bits of corn outta all the shit on here.

[terbang]

As long as we have reasonabe freedom of speech and it doesn't get all too touchy feely and namby pamby, then I have no real probs with the mods. One of the attractions of this site to me was (is) not too heavily modded. However a few will abuse others, it's in their natures, for various reasons to be that way to gain attention.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

I was not aware such abuse that Beemer described existed. I don't think I know how to work the site well enough i.e. not aware when posts are moved or deleted etc.

I think the mods to a wonderful job. A very time-consuming and oftentimes, a thankless job.

I got red repped once and I had to laugh cos the person has never met me, spoken with me etc doesn't know me. I asked other kbers opinion on the particular joke and they cdn't see how the person arrived at the comment either.

Anyway I very much enjoy the site and have benefitted from it in many ways.

[Beemer]

I would have targeted you but I'm scared of you.... Hehehehehehe

And so you should be, young man!

I must confess, the only time that red rep really irritated me was for supposedly posting something in the wrong thread! It was about bikes and I posted it in general biker ravings but it got moved to rant and rave and I got 'spanked' for it...

I used to be a moderator on another site and you're right, BMW - it is a thankless task most of the time! I would moderate posts, mostly for advertising content or similar, and get abusive PMs calling me a Nazi. Gave up in the end because it's not like you get paid for taking shit!

[Keystone19]

I like everybody...:yes:

[Lissa]

I think the moderators do a great job. Someone has to do it, and I guess no matter who the moderators are, someone is always going to complain about them. I wouldnt want the site to get too over moderated though, and I think it is far from that.


90% of the abuse is not happening on the forums and that's where the real issue comes in. The Mods are accused of being draconian in their ways. And they remove a few posts here and there. The real problem is the rep comments, PM's, and even phone calls in some cases that are abusive and way over the line. How would you like your wife or family abused because someone has an ego problem and thinks they can hide behind the 'anonymity' of the internet?I cant believe that someone would be such a dick as to ring and abuse someone, thats just crazy.

[boomer]

round and round we go..... :zzzz:

[Colapop]

I like everybody...:yes:
And we like you too Jilly... :love:

round and round we go.....
So you've got spinners for the Hoondog bro?

[boomer]

So you've got spinners for the Hoondog bro?

i cant ride it properly so i might as well bling the mofo

[Joni]

I cant believe that someone would be such a dick as to ring and abuse someone, thats just crazy.Well i can tell you from personal experience, this does happen... it becomes very sad when people take the internet so seriously that they feel the need to invade someones personal/home life with threats etc.

[Paul in NZ]

it becomes very sad when people take the internet so seriously that they feel the need to invade someones personal/home life with threats etc.

yeah - thats what i told those guys from the police dept last night when they confiscated my hard drive full of porn...

[sels1]

yeah - thats what i told those guys from the police dept last night when they confiscated my hard drive full of porn...

What? you had some movies they hadnt seen?

[Big Dave]

What? you had some movies they hadnt seen?

They are all at the Commissioners house.

[Squeak the Rat]

They are all at the Commissioners house.


yeah - thats what i told those guys from the police dept last night when they confiscated my hard drive full of porn...


What? you had some movies they hadnt seen?

You all might think you're being funny but it's just these sorts of posts which make so much work for the moderators.

Tut tut tut and sigh.....



[Edit:] that was a p/t, i was hoping that i wouldnt need to point it out, but alas it seems i do.....

[Big Dave]

Doesn't bother me squeaky.

What pisses me off is that I have a mate that is a senior cop. His Mrs and my Mrs are tight. He's as decent a bloke as I know. A keen rider with several bikes and....a mate I trust. A servant of the community. On peacekeeping duty in the Solomons now.

It all seems like a beat up (pun intended) but I feel for him. There's good un's that don't deserve it.

[KoroJ]

While the people here do exist on the other side of a keyboard, the forum itself is not real life.

I'd have to disagree here. This forum is a bit different to alot of internet sites because it is here for a very small target audience, a large proportion of whom will meet in person at biker events.

You only have to read the threads to see members being called by name instead of 'logon' to realise that this site does not share the same anonymity as most forums and the fact that a member has access to another's phone number supports this.

Internet forums aren't 'real life' but this one is more of a 'community notice board'.

I enjoy being a 'shit-stirrer' as much as anyone but there a big difference between clever quips and senseless abuse.

Well done Mr Deviant Esq.