Tyre Wear

[TonyB]

I did a track day at Ruapuna with my FZR1000 on Saturday, it went pretty well, all things considered. I finally have a reasonable set up and I was able to corner pretty well. But I’ve noticed something that makes me think the setup can be improved further, and I’m wondering if someone could give me some advice. Below you’ll see some photos. The first two are of the right hand side of the front and rear tyres, I’ve drawn a line showing where the tyre is wearing to (note I mean wearing, not scrubbing). The rear is wearing nearly to the edge* and the front is miles from the edge. It seems to me that the wear on the tyres should be more even- has any one got any thoughts on this?
This has me thinking that I need to raise the rear, as when I accidentally had the rear shock set too firm and the forks too soft the wear on the tyres was more even. Maybe the front aspect ratio is too high?
* Yes I know I should be wearing right up to the edge, but this bike has been badly set up for two years and I’ve learnt some bad habits as a result!

[White trash]

Hi Tony.

Because of the amount of "curl" to the front tyre versus the rear, the front shouldn't wear to as near the edge on most sports bikes.

Looking at your rear tyre, I'd say you may want to lift your pressure slightly.

[Artifice]

the rear tyre always wears a lot faster than the front... i can see you've been using something to cut the traks back into the rear tyre. also it looks like you have been really thrashing it. so its no wonder the profiles of the two tyres are now probably different. just my 2c.
p.s. i cant seem to get within an 1/2 inch of the edge on my rear.

[riffer]

Tony - my 87 FZR has an almost identical wear profile to yours.

I used to worry about a chicken strip a mile wide on my front, but having seen other fizzers I reckon its just a fizzer thing.

[Blackbird]

White Trash is onto it - nothing much to worry about I'd say. The other thing that makes a big difference is wheel alignment. I certainly wouldn't trust your local tyre dealer and the marks on most bikes aren't accurate enough either. I built my own laser alignment rig and have attached the article if it's of any interest to you. Spot on every time now.

Geoff

[scroter]

i concur rear tyre pressure looks a little low from the way its tearing up on the edges. also you dont say whether your gettin the pegs down or not. if you are then maybe sticking a spacer on top of the spring might work. not to sure about that tho.

[scroter]

the rear tyre always wears a lot faster than the front... i can see you've been using something to cut the traks back into the rear tyre. also it looks like you have been really thrashing it. so its no wonder the profiles of the two tyres are now probably different. just my 2c.
p.s. i cant seem to get within an 1/2 inch of the edge on my rear.

i dont get to the edge on the road either maybe 1/2 a centimetre away. on the track tho easy as to use the whole tyre. still room on the front one tho.

[TonyB]

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I will have another look at the tyre pressures and see what they're like. It was sticking well once warmed up, (sliding when cold) so I didn't want to mess with it. I haven't cut any grooves in the rear. Blackbird- loved the wheel alignment rig, I might look into that one. Scoter- no I wasn't getting the pegs down, but it can't have been far off (I think my toes have proximity sonar or something!) I wasn't hanging off either cause I've been pretty crook lately (spent the previous Thurs to Mon in hospital) so I knew I wouldn't have the energy to do it all day, plus Ruapuna is pretty technical- it's all I can do to get around it, hanging off would just be something else to worry about!
Celtic- I guess if it looks normal I've got nothing to worry about.....but what if I can make it go faster..... :msn-wink:
I need to do something about the front anchors too- heaps of lever effort required. I read somewhere that putting braided lines on won't actually reduce the lever effort required. Is this BS or not?

[dangerous]

Tony: are those the dunlop 208's if so the rear is proberly a bit to soft a tyre.
The two bikes I rode out there in the w/e both ended up ith the same amount of wear (rear off the edge, and frount stopping bout were yours are) and I was touching the pegs and hanging of as much as I could, and was still woundering if I was going to get around some of the corners (dont ya hate the 1st right in the infield?)
I'd be worried if the frount was getting further around as ya dont wana role that off the edge.

[JohnBoy]

i agree with the above and the only thing i can add is that i get massive tyre wear when i do track days aswell but one thing my mate said to me was that when you change your lean angle (like from left to right) or when you get back onto your seat after dropping your knee is to make sure that you do this change easily and softly.
other than that if you got some cash ( like $1000 - $2000) have a whisper to the NZ ohilns distrubter up in Hawera near New Plymouth. apparently he is the mutts nuts in suspension.

[LB]

other than that if you got some cash ( like $1000 - $2000) have a whisper to the NZ ohilns distrubter up in Hawera near New Plymouth. apparently he is the mutts nuts in suspension.
.
.
Robert Taylor from Hawera Motorcycles - a really nice bloke.
.
.

[TonyB]

Tony: are those the dunlop 208's if so the rear is proberly a bit to soft a tyre.
At the risk of starting a huge debate about tyres :no: I went off mixing tyre types after having a bad run with a D220 rear D208 front, then I read a rant written by a guy who works for Bridgestone. The basic message in this rant was 'don't mix tyres', what he said made sense to me. I can dig it up and post it here if anyones interested. Hopefully the D208's will last for a year
(dont ya hate the 1st right in the infield?) At the speeds I was (not) going it didn't really matter, plus I watched the lines Stroud/Bernard etc were taking at the NZGP, and they run the next left tight to the inside- makes it all heaps easier. The one I don't like is the bloody left hand kink at the end of the pit straight, right where I'd rather be braking :crazy: Not too keen on turn 3 (Pot Hole corner?) as I can't get the image out of my head of a top spec 996 getting rolled, bowled and ---holed there many moons ago. Stupid I know as he was probably going 3 times my meagre speed, but that little voice in my head saying 'slow down!' can be very convincing sometimes!
if you got some cash
HA! I have a wife, a 2 year old girl, a 1 year old boy, a dog, 2 cats and a 1930's weatherboard house....oh, and worst of all- a 15 year old motorcicle

[riffer]

HA! I have a wife, a 2 year old girl, a 1 year old boy, a dog, 2 cats and a 1930's weatherboard house....oh, and worst of all- a 15 year old motorcicle
Know the feeling. Try a wife, an ex-wife, a 6 year old girl, 2 4-year old boys, 1 bump in the tummy, 3 cats, a fish, a 1909 house and a 17 year old motorcycle.... :p

[TonyB]

Know the feeling. Try a wife, an ex-wife, a 6 year old girl, 2 4-year old boys, 1 bump in the tummy, 3 cats, a fish, a 1909 house and a 17 year old motorcycle.... :p

I feel your pain......

[dangerous]

At the risk of starting a huge debate about tyres :no: I went off mixing tyre types after having a bad run with a D220 rear D208 front, then I read a rant written by a guy who works for Bridgestone. The basic message in this rant was 'don't mix tyres', what he said made sense to me. I can dig it up and post it here if anyones interested.
Yeah go on start something here an post it :eek:
208 frount and 220 rear is what I'm running on the Storm, no problems what so ever and I'm hoping to get 10,k out of them.
Well 10,km is what I would get out of having Metzler Mez3 frount Mez4 rear on the 1100 Guzzi if the Dunlops dont work out then I'll go back to them.
IMO I wouldent mix brands but mixing compounds of the same brand isent a problem.

[TonyB]

[QUOTE=dangerous]Yeah go on start something here an post it :eek:
208 frount and 220 rear is what I'm running on the Storm, no problems what so ever and I'm hoping to get 10,k out of them.
[QUOTE]
I only got 5 or 6k out of my D220 rear- can't remember for sure, but it's written down at home so I'll check.

OK, you asked for it, here's the rant I was talking about. Anyone with a new Fazer should find this handy.
Puh-lease remember, I didn't write this:

As you probably know, there is more rubbish talked about tyres than anyother motorcycle product - I've lost count of the amount of riders I've spoken to who know more about what makes a bike handle than our development riders, some of whom are former GP riders! Some of the threads that I've
read on various sites over the years have left me amazed - some of the claims that owners have made for Brand-X tyres in comparison to Brand-Y tyres go completely against all in-house and independent testing that I have the results of. So I thought I'd try and clear a way through the clutter and
give you the definitive, official Bridgestone UK line on our motorcycle rubber for Fazers. If you abide by this information you will have no handling problems, if you listen to the bloke down the pub who thinks he knows better, you will have problems. Trust me when I say that if the information the bloke down the pub gives you differs from this information,
he does not understand tyres and how they work.

Choose the correct tyre:

I'll start with the one thing that many riders overlook - just because a tyre is available in the sizes to fit your bike it doesn't necessarily mean that it will suit your bike...not all tyres are suitable for all bikes. For details on this see my comment below about the BT-010 and the FZS1000. The
BT010 is the UK's, if not the world's, most popular sports tyre, and if we don't approve it's fitment on the FZS1000 there must be a good reason. The same goes for other tyres in our range - the BT-012SS fast road/track day tyre is too "full-on" for the FSZ1000, the new BT-012 gives more than enough
grip for this bike, even for track day use. None of the major tyre manufacturers approve the fitting of their entire range of tyres for every bike, and this stands to reason - why should we expect an extreme-performance tyre to offer its best when fitted to a bike that was developed for general all-round riding? It's more important to choose the tyre that best suits your needs and the bike's purpose. E.g. If you're going
on a European jaunt the BT-020 sports touring tyre would be a better choice than the BT-010 or BT-012 sports tyres. If you use your bike for transport as well as fun the BT-020 would again be the best choice. But if all you use your bike for is fun and the occasional track day you should probably choose the BT-010 or BT-012.

Grip:

Don't worry about the grip available from your tyres. This may not be something you're used to hearing, but grip isn't omething you should beworrying about - let us do that for you. The grip level available from the latest sports touring tyres, such as our BT-020, is comparable with full-on
sports tyres of just five years ago. So don't worry about grip, we've already got that sorted, concentrate more on what type of tyre suits your purposes, and for that information see above. And don't focus too much on the compound - there's a lot more to how a tyre grips the road than just the compound.

If your tyre slips, don't automatically blame the tyre. Think about where it happened - was the road surface contaminated, was it on a greasy roundabout,was the road surface worn out? If the road surface is not contaminated
modern tyres give plenty of warning before they slide and if you've ignored those warning signs you can't really blame the tyres.

Running tyres in:

Running tyres in takes approximately 100 miles and involves more than simply scrubbing-in the tread surface of the tyre. When tyres come out of the mould they have a smooth surface and to obtain optimum grip levels this smooth
surface needs to have it's entire surface scrubbed-in and the best way to achieve this is not to rub the surface with emery paper, but to go for a ride. The first few miles should be spent riding upright so that you have a broad band in the centre that has been scrubbed-in. You can then start
increasing your angle of lean while always keeping a portion of the scrubbed-in area in contact with road. Scrubbing-in can be achieved by an experienced rider in as few as 10 miles, but this does not mean that your tyres will be fully run-in. Running tyres in also involves seating the tyre on the wheel, and this is not achieved simply by fitting the tyre to the
wheel. Running-in also allows all of the components of the tyre to seat in against one another - by overheating a new tyre you can cause lasting damage that means the tyre may not achieve its optimum mileage. While running-in new tyres you should not subject them to hard acceleration or braking
forces.

Mixing tyres:

There is absolutely no point in mixing tyres on the same bike. e.g. BT-010 front with BT-020 rear.

In the case of FZS600 owners, many did it because the 110/70ZR17 BT-020 was not available until early 2003 and if they wanted to use a BT-020 sports touring tyre on the rear they had no other choice. The problem with fitting this mixed pair on this particular bike is that stability is not as good as
with a matched pair of BT-010s or BT-020s. And this just highlights the possible pitfalls when fitting mixed tyres on any bike - if one type of tyre is designed as a smooth handling, totally neutral sports touring tyre and the other is designed as a rapid steering, ultra responsive tyre, why should we expect them to work together? If a bike doesn't handle when fitting mixed tyres it's not going to be the tyre's fault.

But the main reason why riders fit mixed tyres is to supposedly benefit from having a grippier tyre on the front while getting sensible mileage from the rear tyre. Well...we kinda know this. We are, after all, the biggest tyre manufacturer in the world and we really do know what we're doing. We know that the demands placed on a front tyre are different to the requirements of the rear tyre, and that is why the compound of our front tyres is different to the compounds of our rear tyres. So the front BT-020 compound is different to the rear BT-020 compound and the front BT-010 compound is different to the rear BT-010 compound, etc., etc., all the way through our various ranges of tyres. Now that you have this information you can see that it's pointless mixing tyres, Bridgestone is already giving you what you want when you fit a matched pair of our tyres.

Punctures:

Bridgestone approves the repair of it's motorcycle tyres in conjunction with BS159f, which precludes the repair of punctures in Z-rated radial tyres. Punctures are unfortunate and it doesn't help when the vast majority happen in the more expensive rear tyre. This is usually because the puncturing
object, which was lying in the road, is kicked up by the front tyre into the path of the rear tyre. I know that it upsets a few riders that Bridgestone doesn't approve the repair of our tyres, but we have valid reasons for this. As soon as an object penetrates the tyre a steady progression of road
contaminants starts to enter the hole. By road contaminants I mean diesel, oil, chemicals dropped by farm vehicle and trucks...all of the bad stuff that can seriously effect the construction of the tyre. If, as is likely, these contaminants settle between the tread strip and the carcass, a process
called delamination can start. Delamination is the separation of the tread strip from the carcass and the first visible sign is a bulge in the tread. If this bulge is not noticed the delamination process will continue until a catastrophic failure occurs. Unless you're very skilled or very lucky this usually involves crashing the bike as the tyre disintegrates.

If you notice during your regular tyre checks that the tyre has a penetrating object and you decide to have it repaired, do you know how long the object has been in the tyre? If the delamination process has started, plugging the tyre will not prevent it continuing.

If you get a puncture and the tyre gradually deflates as you are riding, the chances are that the tyre is ruined beyond repair by the time the bikes poor handling alerts you to the situation. An under inflated tyre runs very hot and this can lead to invisible internal damage. If the tyre deflates fast
enough so that by the time you bring the bike to a standstill the tyre is flat, the sidewalls will have come under such strain that the heat generated will have ruined the tyre.

But just because Bridgestone doesn't approve the repair of our Z-rated tyres, it does not prevent you having your tyre repaired by your local fitter. If you are satisfied that the repair that they make will be good enough then that is up to you. But I have to make it clear that if the tyre has been repaired, Bridgestone will not guarantee any further claim you may make on the tyre and neither will we guarantee the quality of the repair.

Personally speaking I would never repair any motorcycle tyre...my life is worth more than the cost of a new tyre.

(it carries on further to give heaps of info specific to Fazers, but it's too big to post in one go)

Thanks for allowing me to take up your time.

Bryn Phillips

Bridgestone Motorcycle Technical


Make your own mind up guys
cheers
R1FSR

Crikey, that was even longer than I remember! I had to edit it to make it fit...

[James Deuce]

Looks like sensible advice to me.

[Coldkiwi]

interesting reading. Although, despite the best efforts of the tyre manufacturers, we still seem to get through two rears to every one front so assertions that different compounds remove the need for a mix isn't really a total answer is it?

As for different front and rear wear Tony, I used to worry about that too. I still have 8-10mm left on the sides my front diablo corsa while my rear (D corsa or rennsport) have both gone right to the edge. However, while riding kopu-hikuai one day and being in a particularly good mood and really in the zone, I managed to deck out my slider while the fairing was against the other side of my leg... and I REALLY think thats quite far enough over for me! So if being that far over still doesn't scrub the front edge, I'm not worried! I suspect that extra area is for some sort of stiffening or strength to help the tyre behave more that it is for actual road wear.

[gav]

Hey, sounded like you guys had a good time, big turn out? Went and fitted my new Pirelli Dragon Evo front last Sat morning and went for a ride in the pissing rain in the faint hope it may scrub in. On Friday had a Saturday staff member ring in sick and ended up having to work instead, Arrgghhh!!! oh well, always next time.....

[TonyB]

ColdKiwi, so far on this bike the front has expired sooner than the rear, but I tend to be law abiding (no sense in loosing me licence- how will I ride?) and untill recently a poor set up has stopped me from getting much gas on out of the corners. What are the Pirellis like? Do they need heat to work properly?
Gav, I thought the turnout was amazing. I haven't been for 3 years and back then there was nothing like the numbers or quality of bikes that I saw on Saturday. Looks like there's not another one at Ruapuna till APRIL!

[Kickaha]

Hey, sounded like you guys had a good time, big turn out? Went and fitted my new Pirelli Dragon Evo front last Sat morning and went for a ride in the pissing rain in the faint hope it may scrub in. On Friday had a Saturday staff member ring in sick and ended up having to work instead, Arrgghhh!!! oh well, always next time.....

Last count I heard was 73 have a go day riders,that doesn't include licenced club riders

Gav,bring your bike to Timaru on the 18th instead,they run a class for unlicenced social riders.

[gav]

Arrgghh Mr Bridgestone san, makes me glad I've got Pirellis fitted, what a patronising git. I'm so glad that he knows exactly how I ride, and where i ride and what I want from my bike. What suits a Fazer isnt relevant to any thing else apart from a Fazer is it? Even then you could be a track dog from hell or a mild mannered commuter, so certainly your requirements for tyres will be different. If I want my bike to tip in quickly and can help this by changing my front tire profile so be it, if I want a super sticky gumball front for my track days so be it. Hey, Mr Brickstone, just try and stop those 'stones exploding on Nakanos bike will you, seems you dont know everything about tires just yet.... :tugger:

[NordieBoy]

What suits a Fazer isnt relevant to any thing else apart from a Fazer is it? :tugger:

That quote was from a Fazer list...

He's saying that in THESE conditions for THIS bike then THIS tyre combo WILL work very nicely.
ie. It's been tested for at the factory.

[Kickaha]

Arrgghh Mr Bridgestone san, makes me glad I've got Pirellis fitted, what a patronising git. I'm so glad that he knows exactly how I ride, and where i ride and what I want from my bike. What suits a Fazer isnt relevant to any thing else apart from a Fazer is it? Even then you could be a track dog from hell or a mild mannered commuter, so certainly your requirements for tyres will be different. If I want my bike to tip in quickly and can help this by changing my front tire profile so be it, if I want a super sticky gumball front for my track days so be it. Hey, Mr Brickstone, just try and stop those 'stones exploding on Nakanos bike will you, seems you dont know everything about tires just yet.... :tugger:

Well if you're such an expert why aren't you working for a GP team then :laugh:

I think you missed the point of the article,he is talking specifically about the Fazer so obviuosly it doesn't relate to your bike.

He does make the comment himself that its more important to get a tyre that suits your bike and what your usage is and not get hung up on all the wank about compounds etc.

Ah Nakanos bike,no doubt you know exactly what caused the failure,care to share it with us?

[gav]

Yeah OK, I've read that its for the FZS600, all manufacturers will list tyres approved for each model and clearly its not wise to choose a tyre that the manufacturer has not approved for each bike, but the tone of this There is absolutely no point in mixing tyres on the same bike. and this And this just highlights the possible pitfalls when fitting mixed tyres on any bike - if one type of tyre is designed as a smooth handling, totally neutral sports touring tyre and the other is designed as a rapid steering, ultra responsive tyre, why should we expect them to work together? If a bike doesn't handle when fitting mixed tyres it's not going to be the tyre's fault. and this Well...we kinda know this. We are, after all, the biggest tyre manufacturer in the world and we really do know what we're doing. and wait theres more Now that you have this information you can see that it's pointless mixing tyres, Bridgestone is already giving you what you want when you fit a matched pair of our tyres
He's a Bridgestone rep, he's not about to admit on a web site that he would approve say mixing a B'stone with a Dunlop or a Metz with a Mich, off the record it may be a different story. Most tyre dealers will agree that it is safe and OK to mix and match, providing its done correctly. Have a look sometime at say 4 or 5 pairs of tyres for say a 600 sports bike, all the tyres could be approved, but even the width of them may be different, even if marked as a 180. You can mix and match if you know what you want but have some common sense, general rule of thumb, have a stickier or sportier tyre on the front and more touring oriented on the back, dont go for a touring front, sticky rear combo. Some front tyre profiles will vary and offer a different "feel" eg a Dunlop may tip in quicker than a Michelin for eg, a Dunlop will usually start to drift and slide before a Mich which will grip more but let go more sudden, these are general conditions, you pay your money and take your chances!
Nakanos tyre failure, we'll never know will we, maybe even Bridgestone don't know (contrary to what the champ thinks) I know, it blew out! delamination? overheating track conditions? too high a pressure? who knows?
Oh, I havent worked for a GP team, but have worked in a motorcycle tire outlet FWIW.

[TonyB]

I knew this would happen! The article was too big to post in one hit, if you want to see the whole thing, go here:
http://pub123.ezboard.com/fblue2bikesfrm6.showMessage?topicID=64.topic
All I will say is that when I had a D208 front and D220 rear, the front felt like it wanted to roll in quickly, and the rear wanted to roll in slowly. With D208's at both ends the bike is quicker steering yet it holds a line mch better than before. I guess the same could be achieved with a mix of tyres if you were careful about the aspect ratios etc.

[James Deuce]

Yeah OK, I've read that its for the FZS600, all manufacturers will list tyres approved for each model and clearly its not wise to choose a tyre that the manufacturer has not approved for each bike, but the tone of this There is absolutely no point in mixing tyres on the same bike. and this And this just highlights the possible pitfalls when fitting mixed tyres on any bike - if one type of tyre is designed as a smooth handling, totally neutral sports touring tyre and the other is designed as a rapid steering, ultra responsive tyre, why should we expect them to work together? If a bike doesn't handle when fitting mixed tyres it's not going to be the tyre's fault. and this Well...we kinda know this. We are, after all, the biggest tyre manufacturer in the world and we really do know what we're doing. and wait theres more Now that you have this information you can see that it's pointless mixing tyres, Bridgestone is already giving you what you want when you fit a matched pair of our tyres
He's a Bridgestone rep, he's not about to admit on a web site that he would approve say mixing a B'stone with a Dunlop or a Metz with a Mich, off the record it may be a different story. Most tyre dealers will agree that it is safe and OK to mix and match, providing its done correctly. Have a look sometime at say 4 or 5 pairs of tyres for say a 600 sports bike, all the tyres could be approved, but even the width of them may be different, even if marked as a 180. You can mix and match if you know what you want but have some common sense, general rule of thumb, have a stickier or sportier tyre on the front and more touring oriented on the back, dont go for a touring front, sticky rear combo. Some front tyre profiles will vary and offer a different "feel" eg a Dunlop may tip in quicker than a Michelin for eg, a Dunlop will usually start to drift and slide before a Mich which will grip more but let go more sudden, these are general conditions, you pay your money and take your chances!
Nakanos tyre failure, we'll never know will we, maybe even Bridgestone don't know (contrary to what the champ thinks) I know, it blew out! delamination? overheating track conditions? too high a pressure? who knows?
Oh, I havent worked for a GP team, but have worked in a motorcycle tire outlet FWIW.

MotoGP tyres are in a somewhat different league to road or production race tyres, and if they aren't failing sometimes, the manufacturer isn't doing their job. You have to push boundaries and tyre failure is a part of and always has been one of the risks in all motorsport.

I think mismatched tyres are a recipe for disaster. They are developed in tandem, and the road is a much different place to a race track. Fronts and rears are made to work together, and one of the important roles of a front tyre is wet weather grip in combination with the rear. Tyres are also factored into your suspension setup. I've done a truck load of reading and some minor personal testing (can't wait to see that quoted out of context) and I reckon you can't beat the steering feel of a matched pair of tyres. I dont have millions to spend on R&D, don't develop tyres in concert with bike manufacturers, and don't have thousands of hours to test so I have to have faith in the tyre manufacturers.

Don't over react, but I would be very wary of a retail tyre outlet that recommended mixing tyres.

[gav]

Well, maybe not recommend if the owner wants a new set, but certainly if youre just replacing one tyre, either front or rear you can mix and match to suit your needs, generally the dealer would recommend the tyres with the best profit margin in them :eek: :msn-wink:

[White trash]

Well, maybe not recommend if the owner wants a new set, but certainly if youre just replacing one tyre, either front or rear you can mix and match to suit your needs, generally the dealer would recommend the tyres with the best profit margin in them :eek: :msn-wink:

No such thing as "profit" in tyres for us.

[gav]

How about profit in helmets? Did you get a PM from me?

[AMPS]

No such thing as "profit" in tyres for us.

Not surprising at the prices you quote. (Good on ya, anyway)
Lou

[Coldkiwi]

[QUOTE=TonyB]What are the Pirellis like? Do they need heat to work properly?
QUOTE]

not from what i've found and i've always used the sticker versions of pirelli's offerings. My brief altercation with D207's suggested that the Dunlops may be in a different camp (not bad once hot) although I know the D207 was replaced with the 208 for a number of reasons so its probably not fair to draw a direct conclusion to other newer models of Dunlop.

[scroter]

recent track day suggest yes pirellis do need heating up but ive never noticed it on the road. cant stand dunlops either.

[dangerous]

I think mismatched tyres are a recipe for disaster.
This is not just a question for you jim anyone can answer, Ok then do you consider a MEz3 frount and MEz4 rear is mismatching? these tyres are the same profile, pattern but do have a different compound ie: z3 sport & z4 sport/touring.

second example: Dunlop D208 frount and D220 rear, in this case the 208 is a sport tyre and 220 sport/tourer. the difference is same profile, but different pattern (220 has beter water pattern for touring) 208 softer compound than 220.

Who considers this to be mismatched?
Or is mismatching more the mixing of brands.

[DEATH_INC.]

No,mismatching is mixing different tyres,brand or model.As the bridgee guy was saying,they use different profiles and compounds in different models of tyres.It's the same with idiots that use undersized(180,6" rim)or oversized(190,5.5" rim)it changes the profile,so it dosen't work properly.

[Blakamin]

Mine are mismatched... 110/80/17 pirelli sport demon on the front and 150/60 18 Dunlop gpr80 on the rear... both are better than the matching set of arrowmax on the zeal... I find it wants to fall into corners nicely and the sticky(er) rear lets be power on heaps more without the squirm the zeal had... might just be the bike, but these tyres are heaps better. including on Kapiti Rd's stupid little grooves (really crap road surface outside placemakers that looks like it was raked like a sand-trap parrallel to the gutters) that used to make the zeal squirm.

[DEATH_INC.]

Yeh,that's the other side of the debate,as long as yer tyres do what you want from them :whocares:

[James Deuce]

Yeh,that's the other side of the debate,as long as yer tyres do what you want from them :whocares:

US Litigation lawyers, and coming at an ever increasing pace, NZ ones.

[James Deuce]

This is not just a question for you jim anyone can answer, Ok then do you consider a MEz3 frount and MEz4 rear is mismatching? these tyres are the same profile, pattern but do have a different compound ie: z3 sport & z4 sport/touring.

second example: Dunlop D208 frount and D220 rear, in this case the 208 is a sport tyre and 220 sport/tourer. the difference is same profile, but different pattern (220 has beter water pattern for touring) 208 softer compound than 220.

Who considers this to be mismatched?
Or is mismatching more the mixing of brands.

Mixed tyres don't work together as well as a matched set. There is always a part of their performance envelope where one tyre won't be doing something the other needs it to. That could be clearing water from the road surface in the case of a front, to allow the rear to maximise traction and avoid wheelspin in the wet. Another example is where more recent bikes have begun to take advantage of 500GP and MotoGP research into lateral chassis flexion, to relieve the tyres from having to perform all the work of the suspension at high angles of dangle. Mixing tyres means that when you really push it you may find unpredictable handling quirks that could mean an off.

Wear rates come in to it as well. A matched set will allow the bike to work as a whole meaning a similar wear pattern for both tyres across their working life even if the rear wears out twice as fast as the front. This avoids the dreaded squaring off and its attendant handling issues. Back when I was a 2 smoke fanatic, the "in" tyre combo for the RG 250, RG400/500, and CBR600 (not a two smoke, but part of the same hooligan crowd) was a Metzler Me33 Comp K front, and a Metzler ME1 Comp K rear. Metzler recommended this fitting for demanding sport or track riding but warned that the tread patterns and centre profiles were markedly different and the rear would square off fairly quickly. It is the only tyre combo I've used where I regularly squared the rear tyre off. The Yokohama radials I used on the RC30 were a super sticky compound, but the rear actually lasted better than the rear Metzler on my RG400, even with close to 2/3rds more HP. The Michelin's I use on the TRX are superb, and are a development of the original OEM MAcadam, but with a very different silica based compund, similar to the defunct Pilot Sport. The bike's suspension and handling behaviour is designed around these tyres and I have no complaints. They hook up wonderfully on exit, and don't squirm under hard braking or cornering. Slides, even in the wet and cold are telegraphed ahead.

Uh - that's just a long winded way of saying I know diddly squat about tyre and suspension design and manufacture, so I'm happy to go with what the manufacturers tell me. I guess that makes me a fan boi, but I'm happy to admit I'm ignorant and learn, rather than scathingly dismiss expert advice without investigation.

[TonyB]

second example: Dunlop D208 frount and D220 rear, in this case the 208 is a sport tyre and 220 sport/tourer. the difference is same profile, but different pattern (220 has beter water pattern for touring) 208 softer compound than 220.


I don't know this for certain (may be completely wrong), but the way I understand it is this: You can have two tyres: a sports tyre and a sports/touring tyre- say the D220 and D208- and even if they are both 180/55's they won't have the same cross sectional shape. The way I understand it, the 55 stands for the aspect ratio meaning that the height of the crown of the tyre above the rim is 55% of the width. So a D220 and a D208 180/55 will have the same outside diameter and circumference but the D220 is designed to be stable in a straight line and steer slowly whereas the D208 is designed to steer quickly. If you cut through them, the cross sectional shape of the tyres will be quite different. The D208 is probably going to have lower side walls to allow for a bigger foot print at higher lean angles etc. Then there's compounds tread patterns etc....

Is this correct?

[dangerous]

The way I understand it, the 55 stands for the aspect ratio meaning that the height of the crown of the tyre above the rim is 55% of the width.
Is this correct?
That is what I have been lead to believe.
But as for the difference with the 208 & 220 rear..... honestly who notices the difference (when there is a 208 on the frount) Shit I pushed the Storm bloody hard last w/e at Ruapuna and had no probs at all...... I dont no, maybe if i had matching 208's on the bike it would off cornered better, but I was happy with the 208/220 mix.

[DEATH_INC.]

I don't know this for certain (may be completely wrong), but the way I understand it is this: You can have two tyres: a sports tyre and a sports/touring tyre- say the D220 and D208- and even if they are both 180/55's they won't have the same cross sectional shape. The way I understand it, the 55 stands for the aspect ratio meaning that the height of the crown of the tyre above the rim is 55% of the width. So a D220 and a D208 180/55 will have the same outside diameter and circumference but the D220 is designed to be stable in a straight line and steer slowly whereas the D208 is designed to steer quickly. If you cut through them, the cross sectional shape of the tyres will be quite different. The D208 is probably going to have lower side walls to allow for a bigger foot print at higher lean angles etc. Then there's compounds tread patterns etc....

Is this correct?
Basically,yes.There's also big differences in the consruction layers of fibres inside the tyre,different thicknesses,different angles,sidewall fillers ect ect.These all affect how the tyre works(flexes) under power/brakes and cornering loads,and are all stuff you can't see.If you've ever tried different tyres on your bike and noticed how different they make the bike feel,it's mostly due to the internal construction,not compounds and tread patterns....

[TonyB]

I sent an email my local tyre shop showing them the wear patterns etc and they forwarded it to Dunlop. This is the reply:

Quote:
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First of all the wear on the tyre.The D208 is modern tyre made for modern bikes with high ride height at the back and a low front end which means that you can get the use of what seams like unrealistic shape of the front tyre.When your FZR was new, tyres of the time had flat profiles which suited the set up of the bike. So in short if you added a heap of ride hieght and dropped the forks through the clamps it would one allow you to use all of the tyre and secondly make you bike handle badly as the bike is not designed to be set up like this.I would recommend trying D220 as they are much more suited to this type of bike with shape and if you are worried about grip remember they didn't have tyres this good in 1989.
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So, what do you all think? It could well be that he is following the standard line of not advising to change the set up of the bike for fear of litigation, but I can see his point. It would be interesting to see what the weight distribution is like with a rider on board, as I assume the idea would be to always have a 50-50 distribution front and rear. If there really is little point in using modern sporty tires then I think my next set will be Bridgestones rather than D220's, as where ever I go I find people that really don't like Dunlops. I reckon the Dunlops are a good tyre, but then I haven't tried Bridgestones...

My theory with the front end is if it's not using nearly as much front tyre as back tyre, then the contact patch must be smaller than it should be- kind of like putting a 100 or 90 wide tyre on- that can't be a good thing with a heavy ol' FZR!

[James Deuce]

Sounds like you got some good advice from the horse's mouth. I've got some good reviews of D220s somewhere. I'll try and find them.

[mangell6]

I have had Bridgestones on the FZ and now have Dunlops with 220 on the rear and . . . . on the front.

Observations

1. 020s in the cold and the wet 'slide'. In the Summer they are fine with extremely good wear. 10K rear and 17k front.
2. Dunlops are sure footed in the cold and wet and in the summer they are really sticky. 9k rear and 15k front

I am in Upper Hutt, ride around the North Island and occasionally the south. The 020s have 'dropped' out on me several times when on 'wet' roads, this was through Haast and winter in the Paraparas.

The 'temperature' where you live has a extremely big bearing on what your tyres are like for you. One must select the tyre for your bike and the locale where you normally ride.

I am currently waiting for this set of tyres to wear so that I can try the Metzlers on the bick next.

Mike