Learning to corner

[GerryAttrick]

Theres always a lot of discussion about riding fast and various "training" courses:yes:

I just wondered what the general feeling is regarding the best to consider to improve my cornering ability. Sort of thing is positioning on the road, what gear to use,looking ahead and thru the corner, to lean off or not. Most of my "skills"(used loosely here) are self taught and I'd really like to have somebody who can watch and correct as I go. Not interested in the wobble between cones and panic brake stuff that seems to be more for "back to biking" or new riders.Don't need to learn counter steering either.

I'd like to improve the smoothness and technique for my cornering as I think that will also lead to increased speed..but thats not really the objective.

Have done a couple of "track days" but mostly they seem to be an excuse for the instructors to get a free day at the track and I'd have to say I have not really been that impressed.:angry:

What courses have you guys done and how do they stack up in terms of knowledge gained. Seem to be lots to choose from in Oz but not really anything decent in NZ

[chanceyy]

after completing the ride right ride safe course last weekend I can highly reccommend it,

along with cornering & understanding the concepts & being able to walk through a corner, & then ride it, it was great I had issues with my right hand corners but funnily enough it was my lefts that went to custard on the day, but now i understand the principals I will be out there practicing & practicing & practicing some more

[pritch]

"Leaning off" is always good for an argument hereabout but in its more extreme forms it's basically a track technique. Not necessarily applicable to road riding.

Have you considered a track day? The Honda Riders Club organise good ones with knowledgable coaches. KiwiBiker members organise one of their own.

[yungatart]

Two things will help your cornering
1 A RRRS course
2 A mentor

[skelstar]

Yeah you def can't learn to corner on the internet. I know thats not quite what you are asking. I recommend a trackday, get someone to show you around the track (on bike), ask advice...get someone to mentor you on the road.

I wouldn't worry about moving around on the bike unless you've been riding for a while.

[Pwalo]

The only way you will get better is to practice. There are a lot of good articles in magazines (Bike magazine runs a few), and on the web that go through the technical side of cornering. Usually coming out the other side on your side of the road without hitting anything is a good result.

Suggest that you read a few of these, and work on one or two areas when you're out riding.

Road positioning is a good start, but you also want to make sure that your bike is set up properly for you as well (you know the drill, suspension sag, hand and foot controls in the most comfortable position, clutch and throttle cables adjusted and lubed, chain likewise, tyre pressures correct, etc, etc).

Perhaps the best advice is just to relax, be smooth, and not get too hung up about any one aspect of your riding on the road.

[steved]

I think Janal is looking for a good teacher/instructor to improve/analyse his riding on a track. One imagines he has been riding for a while.

The Australian Superbike school has a reasonable reputation I believe. Quite expensive but five days of instruction on a track and you will learn a bucket-load. I have heard nothing but good things and it is something I would love to do myself. They are affliated to Keith Code's California Superbike school which lends them a great deal of credibility.

http://www.superbikeschool.com.au/

Has anyone here been to this course? Could you share your experiences?

[Hitcher]

I thought the title of this thread was "leaning to corner", which I thought was a highly desirable state of affairs.

[Nutter34]

He's already stated that he's done a few track days. I know where he's coming from regarding the instructors, a lot of the time they are just screaming around the track, not actually following anyone or leading anyone, from the few I've seen anyway...

Janal, some people ride quick naturally, others it takes a bit of time to develop. Just take your time and build confidence slowly. I agree with Pwalo, ensure the bike is set up for your weight and start from there, then also, confidence in tyres plays a part.

I don't think you 'have' to lean off the bike for cornering but there is an argument that for any given corner speed, the lean angle is less. I find I can ride up to a certain pace sitting in the bike, then after that, I adopt a climb all over it approach.

There's also the track approach of point and squirt, storming corners on the brakes etc Or, the smooth and maintain speed approach. Both are fun and depend on the conditions on the day or how you feel, or who you are riding with...

So, it varies really... And depends on your final outcome...

I will add, that agree with him or not, reading Keith Codes Twist of the Wrist II does give a bit of insight into the dynamics of a bike while riding. They are track principles but a corner is a corner...

[Toaster]

You should go the the mentor ride on wednesday nights. The mentors could help you with this.

[Grub]

I'd like to improve the smoothness and technique for my cornering as I think that will also lead to increased speed..but thats not really the objective.

Since I fell off this week, I'm not sure I should be giving my thoughts (except to stay away from painted lines!) Oh sod it, here's the theory anyway. My bin wasn't to do with this really, it was that my speeds are getting too high without realising it.

The biggest change for me was when I started scraping my boot, that caused my to rethink the way I corner and led me to body positioning. I started using my body to set the bike and me up before the corner. Remember that this is what works for me, I have no idea if it's right or wrong, but I do know I am now always in control, smooth and can adjust my turn or position on the road at any time. I have beeen able to dodge a car on my side of the road without even raising a heartbeat.

The sequence goes something like this ...
- Approaching the turn-in point, I shift to the inside of the seat. This causes the bike to stand up a little of course while you are still running straight.
- I unweight the seat, taking 80% of my weight on the balls of my feet
- At the turn-in point, I feed in maintenance throttle and pull the bike down to whatever lean it needs to head for the apex
- Instead of knee-out, I load up my inside leg and use that to carry my weight independent of what the bike is doing
- I maintain the cornering angle by leaning further into the corner and adding power to hold me up
- If I have to tighten the turn, because I am already in the 'jockey' position, i can quickly push my body awy from the bike or drop my upper body down onto the tank. This has the effect of lowering the CofG without any other adjustment, the turn tightens.
- As soon as it's time to roll out of the corner, it's the body that comes up first because, on Paekak Hill particularly, you're rolling straight into the next corner.

Does it work? Hell yes. I used to go through most of the corners on Paekak Hill Rd with my heart in my mouth at 70kmh. Some of those same corners I'm now doing at nearly 100kmh and not feeling on the edge at all. AND I have stopped counter-steering ... which I have come to consider as a compensation for an unbalanced entry into a corner.

You can test this in a gentle and safe way on any road. Just start moving your head to the inside, then your shoulder, then your upper body, then start moving your butt as well, load up your inside butt-cheek etc etc.

I now don't feel in control cornering any other way

[skidMark]

if youre not crashing ur not going hard enough

[GerryAttrick]

"Leaning off" is always good for an argument hereabout but in its more extreme forms it's basically a track technique. Not necessarily applicable to road riding.

Have you considered a track day? The Honda Riders Club organise good ones with knowledgable coaches. KiwiBiker members organise one of their own.


Last track day I did (no names) was the one where I felt the day was a way to get free track time for the "instructors". I did ask them to give me some more feedback but when the time came they were all too busy fanging away down the track. One "instructor"even managed to bin a bike (not his either).

Toatl waste of time - all I got to do was ride the bike faster than I'd normally do on the road. No technique correction, feedback or anything.

[GerryAttrick]

Yeah you def can't learn to corner on the internet. I know thats not quite what you are asking. I recommend a trackday, get someone to show you around the track (on bike), ask advice...get someone to mentor you on the road.

I wouldn't worry about moving around on the bike unless you've been riding for a while.

yeah well I got my bike licence about 40 years ago so I suspect that qualifies for "a while" :shit:

Just think that I have probably got a whole heap of bad habits (although have never come off...but did sorta ride into a drain once) and its never too late and I'm not to proud to fix em.:innocent:

[GerryAttrick]

I think Janal is looking for a good teacher/instructor to improve/analyse his riding on a track. One imagines he has been riding for a while.

The Australian Superbike school has a reasonable reputation I believe. Quite expensive but five days of instruction on a track and you will learn a bucket-load. I have heard nothing but good things and it is something I would love to do myself. They are affliated to Keith Code's California Superbike school which lends them a great deal of credibility.

http://www.superbikeschool.com.au/

Has anyone here been to this course? Could you share your experiences?

Got it in one. Have been riding for a few years but have become more conscious that I still have heaps to learn. I'm not interested in getting my knee down (yet anyway) but noticed that, after trying a few of the tips passed on from various sources (like even just hanging the cheek of my butt off the seat a tad) the whole cornering task seems much more together and smooth.

Figured there has to be somewhere/one out there that can have a look at my technique and even if they can clean up one aspect I figure I have improved my odds of making my next birthday and making riding a better experience

Think I'll look into the Honda Rider Club Trackdays and see how they look

[skelstar]

yeah well I got my bike licence about 40 years ago so I suspect that qualifies for "a while" :shit:
Hmmm...maybe I should have said that you should start leaning off the bike if you think you want to start pushing/finding the bikes limits. Bear in mind that as soon as you move around the bike a bit you start to loose the ability to change direction etc if things turn to crap i.e. harder to use the back-brake for a start!

[pritch]

Think I'll look into the Honda Rider Club Trackdays and see how they look

You don't have to be a HRCNZ member, but if you are the fee is discounted.
If you are also insured through the Honda scheme not only are you covered on a "Training Day", you get a reduction of the amount of the course fee on your next premium.

It does pay to have a note of what you want to talk to the coaches about before you go.

It also pays to be near the head of the queue when the coach takes off to demonstrate the correct lines...

At the one I went to there was a lady (slow group) on a 250 would start right behind Jarred Love and by the time he had done half a lap he was far too far in front for anyone to see what he was doing and we were all too polite to ask her to start at the back. Next time I'd risk being just a little less polite...

[steved]

Got it in one. Have been riding for a few years but have become more conscious that I still have heaps to learn. I'm not interested in getting my knee down (yet anyway) but noticed that, after trying a few of the tips passed on from various sources (like even just hanging the cheek of my butt off the seat a tad) the whole cornering task seems much more together and smooth.

Figured there has to be somewhere/one out there that can have a look at my technique and even if they can clean up one aspect I figure I have improved my odds of making my next birthday and making riding a better experience

Think I'll look into the Honda Rider Club Trackdays and see how they look
Have you read any of Keith Code's Twist the Wrist books? Great advice and tips on how to improve in all aspects of riding smoothly and safely. Definitely worth the money.

Have a look here;

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=39313&highlight=keith+code

http://www.atwistofthewrist.com/

[GerryAttrick]

Have you read any of Keith Code's Twist the Wrist books? Great advice and tips on how to improve in all aspects of riding smoothly and safely.

No but have heard of it. I believe their are also CD versions. Have to ask my mate Google to find em for me.

Cheers

[The Stranger]

Last track day I did (no names) was the one where I felt the day was a way to get free track time for the "instructors". I did ask them to give me some more feedback but when the time came they were all too busy fanging away down the track. One "instructor"even managed to bin a bike (not his either).

Toatl waste of time - all I got to do was ride the bike faster than I'd normally do on the road. No technique correction, feedback or anything.

With all due respect, good riders don't necessarily make good teachers and not everyone I guess learns or responds the same way.

One of the guys I find bloody good at explaing shit and am able to really learn from is Two Smoker:first: Plus he appears to be infinately patient - or maybe just to polite to say look fuck off. If he is at the next KB track day as a tutor I suggest you grab him.

There is a RRRS (http://www.rrrs.org.nz) course on this Sunday if you are interested

[DMNTD]

There is a RRRS (http://www.rrrs.org.nz) course on this Sunday if you are interested

Excellent...I need help with downhill-lefthanders :dodge:

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Excellent...I need help with downhill-lefthanders :dodge:

Shit mate thats not all you need help with.You really do seem to be slowing down in your old age:dodge:

[Disco Dan]

if youre not crashing ur not going hard enough

Mark, thats not helpful. Very close to red with me, you posting that. :nono:


Last track day I did (no names) was the one where I felt the day was a way to get free track time for the "instructors". I did ask them to give me some more feedback but when the time came they were all too busy fanging away down the track. One "instructor"even managed to bin a bike (not his either).

Toatl waste of time - all I got to do was ride the bike faster than I'd normally do on the road. No technique correction, feedback or anything.

Have a look through the Mentors list on here, take your pick. If you want to meet them, a few attend the AWNMR to mentor newbies. Im sure they will give you 1:1 time if you ask...

[The Stranger]

Excellent...I need help with downhill-lefthanders :dodge:

Thank you, we have a good section on that, but need a hand developing the section on trail braking.

[yungatart]

Excellent...I need help with downhill-lefthanders :dodge:

I can see I'm in good company then!!

[GerryAttrick]

Well that question sure stirred up some interest and lots of good info. One thing I would like to clear up. The Track Day I referred to that did not impress me was a couple of years ago and not at Taupo - was Pukekohe. Granted it may have only been a one off but given that I paid a decent sum for instruction I was disappointed not to come away with some more knowledge than how fast my bike would go down the back straight.

I'll definitely be turning up at one of the AWNR and hopefully can get to meet some of you (and a mentor). I think I'll also see about a KB Track Day...probably at Taupo as I have never ridden there.

I follow this thread with interest

[aro]

I think Janal is looking for a good teacher/instructor to improve/analyse his riding on a track. One imagines he has been riding for a while.

The Australian Superbike school has a reasonable reputation I believe. Quite expensive but five days of instruction on a track and you will learn a bucket-load. I have heard nothing but good things and it is something I would love to do myself. They are affliated to Keith Code's California Superbike school which lends them a great deal of credibility.

http://www.superbikeschool.com.au/

Has anyone here been to this course? Could you share your experiences?try this.
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=526