Need solicitor 4 offer on property?

[degrom]

Hi.

We are busy buying our first property.

Would it be advised to have a solicitor have a look at the offer before we hand it over to the property agent?

Anyone know of a good solicitor in Lower Hutt that won't ask you an arm and a leg to do this?

Thx.

[Drum]

This is very important!

Do not sign ANYTHING without having a lawyer look at it first!

Sorry, my lawyer is in the city so can't help there. Never take the one the real estate agent recommends either. Ask your bank for a recommendation.

Edit: It's also worth asking your bank to chuck in $500 towards legal costs. They seldom refuse. Also see if you can get 0.5% or so off the variable rate if you're going that way. And never pay application fees.

[Stickchick]

Hi.

We are busy buying our first property.

Would it be advised to have a solicitor have a look at the offer before we hand it over to the property agent?

Anyone know of a good solicitor in Lower Hutt that won't ask you an arm and a leg to do this?

Thx.

Gill and McAsey are good with Property stuff and because they are a small firm don't believe in charging the earth....Or there is a Free Lawyer that you can get for advice only. Ring the Wellington Law Centre or even Citizens Advice Bureau and they will give you the number for the Hutt Office.

[doc]

Hi.

We are busy buying our first property.

Would it be advised to have a solicitor have a look at the offer before we hand it over to the property agent?

Anyone know of a good solicitor in Lower Hutt that won't ask you an arm and a leg to do this?

Thx.
You are pulling my tit's right. Entering into the biggest purchase of your life, and you are wondering if it's worth the cost of a legal advice. Then you ask KB'r for advice. No trouble bro, once you got the house, I got this choice 2nd hand imported MV Tambourini from Nigeria. Once you got the loan PM me. Have I got the deal for you aye!

[candor]

A solicitors opinion is not really necessary PRIOR TO GOING UNCONDITIONAL in a straightforward purchase provided you do a couple of things that pretty much everyone does anyway.

The things a lawyer would do if you payed one. If the agent fights you on what I recommend just threaten to walk -be firm. I've bought houses and never had a lawyer in at the offer stage! On a need to have basis only.

Always make the offer conditional, so you have an out for reasonable reasons.

So that means make it conditional upon within a certain time eg so many working days obtaining

1) a satisfactory Land Information report (LIM)
Two) a satis Project Information report (PIM)

You can usually extend the time frame of typically three weeks if you need to cos council is dragging chain.

These reports are cheap to get and ensure no flooding or anything like that and no nasty new projects are planned on the doorstep.

But its money down the drain if you get a lawyer to get these reports and they find something obvious so you back out and are back to square one.

Including them as conditions does not mean you must get the reports either, tho it is always a good idea.

I once found something worrying in one that the lawyer did not spot or point out to me when it came time to involve them to hand over the dosh. Still went ahead but wih full knowledge, no surprises.

You could also make it conditional on a satisfactory property check of the building - this can give negotiating power to shave a bit off agreed price if you find anything yuk. I had to drop price five hundred on a upper end property I was selling once cos the buyers moaned that their check found the hot water tank was ancient.

You can make it conditional on lawyers approval too - doesn't mean you necessarily must involve one. Its just an out if you need it.

Lastly if you are not one to take all or some of these steps to be safe then a good condition to add is "conditional on suitable finance being arranged within x amt of time", then you have an out by just saying you could find nothing suitable (suitable is very subjective LOL) should you just change your mind.

Lastly - do not let them take an extortionate deposit. Agents have begun doing this so they can earn interest on your money. Give them enough to extract their commission and show you are serious - nothing more than five to ten percent.

If you do all that you think is wise given the property as above then you should not need a lawyer to check the OFFER agreement. And you only need them at a later if you have a mortgage, or maybe need to reconsider as the LIM or PIM or property check either mean you want out or to get a significantly lower price renegotiated.

Gill and Mccasey on High St are OK priced to purchase through and nice enough ie to do the money bits and register the mortgage if any. About five hundred plus GST and a few were extra charges.

Thats on the low average side I think. But get an all inclusive quote up front once you "go unconditional", as they forgot to tell me about a few wee extra bits eg filing fees once.

Good luck :rockon:

Oh I forgot to say that the deposit is paid per the agreement when you "go unconditional" ie the date all conditions are met "or by a later date per mutual agreement".
LIMs, PIMs, finance and possibly a property check if leaky building or old house. All that done and checked out neighbourhood for any neighbours from hell and you've done all you can. Its easier than it sounds OK, agents know the drill and should help if they want to make the sale.

Ask after writing up offer to hold onto it for a day "so yer dad can check it out" if you fear you may have missed something and want to review it without moneygrubbing agent breathing down your neck.

[Laava]

Definately get you own independent legal advice either from a lawyer or a legal executive, Good luck guys!:yes:

[degrom]

If you do all that you think is wise given the property as above then you should not need a lawyer to check the OFFER agreement. And you only need them at a later if you have a mortgage, or maybe need to reconsider as the LIM or PIM or property check either mean you want out or to get a significantly lower price renegotiated.

Gill and Mccasey on High St are OK priced to purchase through and nice enough ie to do the money bits and register the mortgage if any. About five hundred plus GST and a few were extra charges. Ask after writing up offer to hold onto it for a day "so yer dad can check it out" if you fear you may have missed something and want to review it without moneygrubbing agent breathing down your neck.

Thanks for the really good advice... Will take it all in to consideration.

One need to start somewhere and it would be really silly not to ask as many questions as you can... (Even if it's on a Bikes forum.. LOL)

[Mrs Busa Pete]

A solicitors opinion is not really necessary PRIOR TO GOING UNCONDITIONAL in a straightforward purchase provided you do a couple of things that pretty much everyone does anyway.

The things a lawyer would do if you payed one. If the agent fights you on what I recommend just threaten to walk -be firm. I've bought houses and never had a lawyer in at the offer stage! On a need to have basis only.

Always make the offer conditional, so you have an out for reasonable reasons.

So that means make it conditional upon within a certain time eg so many working days obtaining

1) a satisfactory Land Information report (LIM)
Two) a satis Project Information report (PIM)
What the hell is that iv'e never heard of it and i'm an agent
You can usually extend the time frame of typically three weeks if you need to cos council is dragging chain.
Time frame can be what ever you want but generally 15 working days
These reports are cheap to get and ensure no flooding or anything like that and no nasty new projects are planned on the doorstep.
They are around $180.00

But its money down the drain if you get a lawyer to get these reports and they find something obvious so you back out and are back to square one.

Including them as conditions does not mean you must get the reports either, tho it is always a good idea.

I once found something worrying in one that the lawyer did not spot or point out to me when it came time to involve them to hand over the dosh. Still went ahead but wih full knowledge, no surprises.

You could also make it conditional on a satisfactory property check of the building - this can give negotiating power to shave a bit off agreed price if you find anything yuk. I had to drop price five hundred on a upper end property I was selling once cos the buyers moaned that their check found the hot water tank was ancient.

You can make it conditional on lawyers approval too - doesn't mean you necessarily must involve one. Its just an out if you need it.

Lastly if you are not one to take all or some of these steps to be safe then a good condition to add is "conditional on suitable finance being arranged within x amt of time", then you have an out by just saying you could find nothing suitable (suitable is very subjective LOL) should you just change your mind.

Lastly - do not let them take an extortionate deposit. Agents have begun doing this so they can earn interest on your money. Give them enough to extract their commission and show you are serious - nothing more than five to ten percent.

If you do all that you think is wise given the property as above then you should not need a lawyer to check the OFFER agreement. And you only need them at a later if you have a mortgage, or maybe need to reconsider as the LIM or PIM or property check either mean you want out or to get a significantly lower price renegotiated.

Gill and Mccasey on High St are OK priced to purchase through and nice enough ie to do the money bits and register the mortgage if any. About five hundred plus GST and a few were extra charges.

Thats on the low average side I think. But get an all inclusive quote up front once you "go unconditional", as they forgot to tell me about a few wee extra bits eg filing fees once.
You will need a lawyer before you go unconditional as it your lawyer that makes it unconditional under your instructionGood luck :rockon:

Oh I forgot to say that the deposit is paid per the agreement when you "go unconditional" ie the date all conditions are met "or by a later date per mutual agreement".
LIMs, PIMs, finance and possibly a property check if leaky building or old house. All that done and checked out neighbourhood for any neighbours from hell and you've done all you can. Its easier than it sounds OK, agents know the drill and should help if they want to make the sale.

Ask after writing up offer to hold onto it for a day "so yer dad can check it out" if you fear you may have missed something and want to review it without moneygrubbing agent breathing down your neck.

a lot of writing for a lot of shit signed money grabbing agent

Cant be assed reading all that put these 3 condition in your contract and that is all you need
1/ finance clause
Put it in even if you dont need it as a rule 5 days
2/Lim report again around 15 working days
Look at the lim it will give you the foots plan of the house if the house dosn't look like the plan then they may have done alterations check to see if there are permits you do that at council office in your area.

3/Building inspection
Building inspection will check for the likes of damp if there is any rot it is bascily a warrent check on the house. If its an older house i would get one of these for sure if you are not sure then get it anyway ring around for prices they are around the $500 mark

All three of those thing will give you an escape out of the contract should you not be happy.

[Nasty]

If this is your first property I owuld have a lawyer .. post that i think you know the ropes better. One of the lawyers i use is Peter Harrison - Porirua ... the other one I have used is Gordon Stone - Wellington. Both were really good ... I was doing a sideways deal of buying into a property with others .. so not only buying but also signing tenants in common at the same time.

[riffer]

Where did you end up looking to buy Bert?

[Sparky Mark]

Hi.

We are busy buying our first property.

Would it be advised to have a solicitor have a look at the offer before we hand it over to the property agent?

Anyone know of a good solicitor in Lower Hutt that won't ask you an arm and a leg to do this?

Thx.

Hi,
I've bought and sold a few over the last couple of years including one in the Hutt (just going back on the market if you're looking) :innocent: . I normally use Upper Hutt Law who have been pretty good. If you decide to give them a call ask for Christine Reti. She comes accross as a bit short on the phone sometimes but she's really nice when you meet her and knows the business inside out.

If you want any more info PM me and I'll be happy to help if I can.

Mark

[pzkpfw]

When I bought my first house, my lawyer didn't seem to tell me anything about the possible issues with cross-leases.

When I sold my first house, their lawyer noticed all the things wrong with my property (and I had to drop the price).

Lesson: never use the lawyer (demon) recommended by the real estate agent (demon).

(...and try to avoid cross-leases).

[chris]

Pay the smallest deposit you can negotiate.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Pay the smallest deposit you can negotiate.

........Why

[chris]

........Why

Why not? No point in fronting up with more than you need to.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Why not? No point in fronting up with more than you need to.


Well you have to pay eventually so whats the diff.

[2much]

My old man deals with this all the time and i can highly recommend him, he certainly knows his shit and will look after you for a reasonable price (plus he's a biker). He's based in the Naki but has clients throughout the country due to his proven record. I know he's currently working for a mate who's selling his place in waikanae, as well as my place in Te Puke thats currently on the market. PM me if you want his details.

[dickytoo]

Well you have to pay eventually so whats the diff.


cause if it all goes sour, you could lose your entire deposit! so, the smaller the deposit, the smaller the damage to your pocket.

happened to a work mate once. his lawyer stuffed up and the deal fell through. when he tried to get his deposit back (20K), he was told that it was being used to pay costs etc and in the end, he had to walk away from it. no legal recourse. harsh lesson learnt the hard way

[Mrs Busa Pete]

cause if it all goes sour, you could lose your entire deposit! so, the smaller the deposit, the smaller the damage to your pocket.

happened to a work mate once. his lawyer stuffed up and the deal fell through. when he tried to get his deposit back (20K), he was told that it was being used to pay costs etc and in the end, he had to walk away from it. no legal recourse. harsh lesson learnt the hard way

You can only lose your deposit if you have gone unconditional and the only way a deal can fall over after that is if you pull out.
So i would suggest your work mate is not telling you the full story.

Hear say is a damaging thing don't you think.

[degrom]

When I bought my first house, my lawyer didn't seem to tell me anything about the possible issues with cross-leases.

When I sold my first house, their lawyer noticed all the things wrong with my property (and I had to drop the price).

Lesson: never use the lawyer (demon) recommended by the real estate agent (demon).

(...and try to avoid cross-leases).



The place we are looking at is cross-lease section.

any idea what it will cost to convert to a freehold title?

Thx.

[dickytoo]

You can only lose your deposit if you have gone unconditional and the only way a deal can fall over after that is if you pull out.
So i would suggest your work mate is not telling you the full story.

Hear say is a damaging thing don't you think.


nope, there was a lot more detail.and there's a lot of way to lose your money.
just a bit of advise. he's welcome to ignore if he wants. tell the guys who bought leaky houses and found out that their legal warrantees don't hold water!

[Drum]

This from http://www.howtolaw.co.nz/html/ml103.asp

What is a cross-lease?
A cross-lease is a scheme where the land and buildings are owned by the occupants of the buildings as tenants in common, who each join in the long-term leasing of a flat to its occupants. (If you own property with others as "tenants in common", your share of the property does not pass to the other owner or owners should you die, as it would if you owned the property as "joint tenants"; instead your share passes according to your will.)

Disadvantages of cross-leases
Potential homeowners should be aware of the many disadvantages of cross-leases. These include:

Decision-making – Most decisions require the unanimous support of all the owners of the cross-leased units; for example, decisions concerning common spaces such as driveways or car parking areas. If the proposed course of action isn’t agreed to unanimously then either the proposal cannot proceed or there may be a lengthy arbitration process.
Alterations – Generally, cross-leases prevent an owner making any structural extensions or additions (such as a conservatory) to the buildings without the prior consent of all the other cross-lease owners. Further, the cross-lease plan would need to be altered to show the alterations; this would involve additional surveying and legal costs.

Converting from cross-lease to freehold title
A cross-lease owner might never experience those disadvantages, but it is worth considering the option of changing the title to the property from cross-lease to freehold ("fee simple"). Freehold gives the owner exclusive rights of use and enjoyment of the land, and is the form of title for most land in New Zealand.

To convert to freehold you will need to ensure, among other things, that you comply with the requirements of the district plan (for example, as to site area and distance between houses) and that a new survey plan is approved by your local council. You should consult a lawyer for further information on the requirements for converting to freehold in your particular case.

Cautionary notes
Be aware of recent law changes: for example, in Christchurch the minimum section size has been increased in recent years. Thus many properties will no longer be considered large enough for a cross-lease. The Law Commission has recommended the abolition of cross-leasing as a form of land title. To be aware of any changes in the law regarding cross-leasing, you should consult a lawyer.

[Drum]

A new survey plan could cost $2 to $3 grand I'd say, plus legal fees (up to $2k at a guess).

You'd also have to get the approval of the other party, and hopefully get them to pay half the cost.

And then if you need a new fence, could be another $5k or more, depending on how much you can do yourself.

If the other party on the cross lease is a good sort then there's not nessecarily a problem, but you can never be guaranteed that they will keep living there.

Edit: Given that there is a cross lease, YOU DEFINATELY NEED A LAWYER TO LOOK IT OVER!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

tell the guys who bought leaky houses and found out that their legal warrantees don't hold water!

I have known of 2 people that have bought leaky homes both bought privately and when i told one lot to make sure they get a building report done they said they didn't need to because the guy was a friend and pretty trustworthy go figure.
I have never sold a house without telling them to get a building report done and when i have known there is something wrong with the house i have told them.
Leaky homes are not generally listed with an agency because we are legally bound to tell any client what they are.Also if a house has these problems they are now marked on the lim report so make sure you check it.

[degrom]

A new survey plan could cost $2 to $3 grand I'd say, plus legal fees (up to $2k at a guess).

You'd also have to get the approval of the other party, and hopefully get them to pay half the cost.

And then if you need a new fence, could be another $5k or more, depending on how much you can do yourself.

If the other party on the cross lease is a good sort then there's not nessecarily a problem, but you can never be guaranteed that they will keep living there.

Edit: Given that there is a cross lease, YOU DEFINATELY NEED A LAWYER TO LOOK IT OVER!

Yes.. I am going to add a condition to the offer that includes that I need approval from my lawyer/solicitor.

I was not sure if you needed your lawyer to put in an offer. I now realize that you don't need a lawyer for the offer,but that you need to add conditions that will cover you in all ways. (At least one that includes that you need your lawyer to have a look at all the papers before you start your 30year sentence!!!)

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Gibson Sheat - in Wellington and Hutt Valley. I work for the conveyancing team - they are excellent. We also have mortgage broker at no cost to you. As an indication of costs (indication only) Buying $1,180 includes title searches disbursements etc + GST. PM me if you want more info.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

[QUOTE=degrom;1060231]Yes.. I am going to add a condition to the offer that includes that I need approval from my lawyer/solicitor.
This clause gives you not protection what so ever. Put in a due diligence clause if you are wanting to check cross lease shit out.

[Toaster]

Thanks for the really good advice... Will take it all in to consideration.

One need to start somewhere and it would be really silly not to ask as many questions as you can... (Even if it's on a Bikes forum.. LOL)

It will likely be a standard S&P agreement - you can fax it to me if you like and I can have a quick look before you seek legal advice (I am a commercial banker).

[Toaster]

Gibson Sheat - in Wellington and Hutt Valley. I work for the conveyancing team - they are excellent. We also have mortgage broker at no cost to you. As an indication of costs (indication only) Buying $1,180 includes title searches disbursements etc + GST. PM me if you want more info.

Is Maree Hannah still working in the Wellington office?

[Winston001]

The place we are looking at is cross-lease section.

any idea what it will cost to convert to a freehold title?

Thx.

Hmmm........some good advice here and some not so good.

1. If this is you first property purchase you should involve a lawyer as early as you can. As Doc said
You are pulling my tit's right. Entering into the biggest purchase of your life, and you are wondering if it's worth the cost of a legal advice.

2. It isn't essential to take the Agreement for Sale and Purchase to your lawyer before signing but agents will often fax it if you insist, so your lawyer gets a chance to search the title and check the conditions in the Agreement.

3. Don't be mislead by experienced property investors who only involve their lawyers at the last minute. They sometimes know as much as their lawyer on the practical matters. You however are a long way from being knowledgable. Play it safe - this is the biggest investment and biggest loan in your life. It can go wrong.................

4. The conveyancing costs on buying and selling property are minimal. The real money goes to the real estate agents who are much cleverer than lawyers. Buyers forget this because the $10 - 20,000 commission is paid by the seller but they soon learn when it comes time to sell!

5. IMHO don't look for the cheapest lawyer - you want someone experienced and competent, and usually that person doesn't need to discount fees. In conveyancing law, experience is by far the most valuable quality. A bit like surgeons - you want a guy who is doing the work every day, not someone desperate for the phone to ring.

6. Changing from cross-lease to fee-simple is impossible in some situations - that is the reason for crossleasing in the first place. Having said that, it's good idea if it is possible. There is a cost and requires the other owners cooperation - mind you, its a win for them too.

7. I'd recommend Miriam Menzies as a very competent no-nonsense lawyer in Upper Hutt. ph 04 528-6719

Good luck.

[chris]

You can only lose your deposit if you have gone unconditional and the only way a deal can fall over after that is if you pull out.
Exactly. You can still lose your deposit, so why not limit your liability if you can?

[jrandom]

Nonsense.
you DO NOT need a solicitor, just a waste of money.
if you are really that worried google is your friend.

[candor]

a lot of writing for a lot of shit signed money grabbing agent
.

Oops :mellow: Ya never know who might be reading. Well most of my experiences with agents have been good I have just been plagued by one trying to get a listing which is why my current attitude. HE is awful and I mean it. I don't want to sell especially after how he has behaved while trying to list me - he threw a tantrum because I really wasn't interested in selling - serious. I could write a story like one of Smipers, but I won't as that would just be cruel to the mentallly ill. Anyway yes my post did ramble - I do that when tired...

Re the PIM (Project Inf Memo) I forgot that that is only needed if you are going to do some development or subdividing etc so forget that Degrom.

http://www.moss-brothers.co.nz/newsletters/0012.html Explains PIM / LIM

Re cross leases - relax, theres nothing wrong with them unless you want to make changes like add rooms and the other house owner decides to obstruct you. If you do want later changes you can seek to get neighbours consent to your alteration as a condition of the purchase - people mostly will be Ok if you don't plan to block their sun or views etc.

Its leasehold that can be a pain in the butt ie you own house which you get cheapish but rent land and to buy it is sky high unless its at a certain point in a twenty year odd cycle.