Knee on ground on public road

[moT]

its perfectly legal to get your knee on the ground on a public road if ur not exceeding the speed limit or endangering other drivers

[Kwaka14]

It's hard not to when kneeling

[yod]

its perfectly legal to get your knee on the ground on a public road if ur not exceeding the speed limit or endangering other drivers

if ur not exceeding the speed limit, what the heck do you need your knee down for?

[moT]

there are some corners where u can get ur knee down and not speed remember u dont hve to ride to the recomended speed limit around corners and its a fun way of passing the time on a long trip

[Maha]

It's hard not to when kneeling


if ur not exceeding the speed limit, what the heck do you need your knee down for?


Brilliant.....bwing to ya boaf....:yes:

[MSTRS]

And you would want to, why? Wank factor?

[yod]

And you would want to, why? Wank factor?

:laugh: :killingme

[Pumba]

its perfectly legal to get your knee on the ground on a public road if ur not exceeding the speed limit or endangering other drivers

Persoally I think that is a fair statement but if you want to do that take it to a race track, otherwise ditto to the two posts above

[moT]

any reason you want to if u want to do it to be a wanker go for it.

[Chisanga]

Why stop at a knee? An elbow or two would be far more impressive :)

[mark247]

Although i dont put my knee down, it is fun getting the pegs scraping around corners. I wouldnt do it when going 100kmh on the road but i do sometimes when turning right at round abouts etc. Its not "wank factor," its fun and not dangerous. Maybe its dangerous if you have no idea how to ride, but if you know what your bike can and cant do there is no reason why not to, if ya not speedin'.

[Chisanga]

The only thing I have that scrapes on the ground when I ride is my ego :)







and once or twice the whole bike and me :(

[Mom]

It's hard not to when kneeling

Not much I can add to that statement except.....


And you would want to, why? Wank factor?

[mark247]

For Christs' sake! its fun! Thats why!

[Sanx]

It depends what bike you're riding ... if it's a (let's pick a bike purely at random here) VFR400, which is only about 3.5" high in any case, then it's perfectly posible to get your knee down on some corners without exceeding the speed limit. However, try it on a bigger bike and you'll either a) come off, or b) get nicked for speeding when you look down and see you're doing 130 by mistake.

Sure, getting one's knee down is fun. I spent several track days trying before I finally got it. However, there's no way on earth I'm gonna do it on the road as I know what the consequences will be.

I'm with MSTRS: it's wank factor, pure and simple.

[mark247]

It depends what bike you're riding ... if it's a (let's pick a bike purely at random here) VFR400, which is only about 3.5" high in any case, then it's perfectly posible to get your knee down on some corners without exceeding the speed limit. However, try it on a bigger bike and you'll either a) come off, or b) get nicked for speeding when you look down and see you're doing 130 by mistake.

Sure, getting one's knee down is fun. I spent several track days trying before I finally got it. However, there's no way on earth I'm gonna do it on the road as I know what the consequences will be.

I'm with MSTRS: it's wank factor, pure and simple.

I agree and disagree with you.

If you are on a bike ( say a VFR ) and you think its fun to get your knee on the ground ( and ya not wearing jeans ) and you can do is safely, then i say go ahead!

But yes, on a big bike it would be unwise.

If ya trying to get your knee down to show off to the car behind you then yes its wank factor, but if ya trying to get ya knee down for the sake of getting ya knee down and thinking "Man that was fun," then no its not wank factor. Moaning about people who just want to have fun is wank factor, though. But yes there are some show offs around. tehehehe. :rockon:

[Morcs]

It depends what bike you're riding ... if it's a (let's pick a bike purely at random here) VFR400, which is only about 3.5" high in any case, then it's perfectly posible to get your knee down on some corners without exceeding the speed limit. However, try it on a bigger bike and you'll either a) come off, or b) get nicked for speeding when you look down and see you're doing 130 by mistake.

Sure, getting one's knee down is fun. I spent several track days trying before I finally got it. However, there's no way on earth I'm gonna do it on the road as I know what the consequences will be.

I'm with MSTRS: it's wank factor, pure and simple.

True. I can do it a piece of piss on an nc30/35, regardless of what tyres im using, on big rounabouts, mini roundabouts, hell i even got knee down a few times on old north road on the weekend.
On the otherhand, I tried it on a zx10, and its a hell of a lot more difficult.

Its fun, pure and simple. I advise against doing it though, as once i was lapping round a roundabout at full lean, knee down in albany when i hit a pothole...it threw my off the bike, but managed to climb back on.

Legally it could be classed as dangerous driving.

[bell]

its perfectly legal to get your knee on the ground on a public road if ur not exceeding the speed limit or endangering other drivers

Good on you Tom. Keep up with threads like this one and you'll be a star on KB. Just ask RM...:dodge:

I especially like that you elected to start this in "Biker Politics and Law".

[mark247]

I especially like that you elected to start this in "Biker Politics and Law".


hahah that really does imply something doesnt it

[bell]

hahah that really does imply something doesnt it

Probably. Yes.

[bert_is_evil]

Good on you Tom. Keep up with threads like this one and you'll be a star on KB. Just ask RM...:dodge:

I especially like that you elected to start this in "Biker Politics and Law".

I like the fact that there was no background,scene setting or reason for the thread, just a statement.

[mark247]

I like the fact that there was no background,scene setting or reason for the thread, just a statement.

But it worked quite well, it got a discussion going, kinda. Although it was just his opinion and he was stating a fact, we still managed to find a problem and argue about it. Classic.

[bert_is_evil]

Yip, we were all lurking, desperately yearning for a new thread.....pounce!

[bell]

Wait til Renegade turns up....things will surely liven up then!

[Maha]

Good on you Tom. Keep up with threads like this one and you'll be a star on KB. Just ask RM...:dodge:

I especially like that you elected to start this in "Biker Politics and Law".

Ooooooo sarky......:laugh: you too will receive blingage

[boomer]

..
Sure, getting one's knee down is fun. I spent several track days trying before I finally got it. However, there's no way on earth I'm gonna do it on the road as I know what the consequences will be.

I'm with MSTRS: it's wank factor, pure and simple.

is it..?

Q. Why do you do it on the track?
Q. When you go out on your favourite road, do you give it some?

So if you do it on the track and your givin it some on the road then why not get ya knee down on the road... surely serves the same purpose on both accounts. example.. The coro, where theres some nice tight up and down twisties or the long sweeping corners... or even the on ramp south of the bombays


so teh question is.. why do you get ya knee down in the first place..?? and do you ride fast on teh road?

[onearmedbandit]

Knee down in itself is not illegal.

[Maha]

or even the on ramp south of the bombays



Tip Top corner should get a mention....:scooter: Duncit..:dodge:

[cowpoos]

its perfectly legal to get your knee on the ground on a public road if ur not exceeding the speed limit or endangering other drivers
go ride on a track...

[ManDownUnder]

And you would want to, why? Wank factor?

And I personally feel that's not nearly as attractive as getting your leg over....

[boomer]

Tip Top corner should get a mention....:scooter: Duncit..:dodge:

you'll get a 'mention' in a minute :rolleyes:

[vamr]

True. I can do it a piece of piss on an nc30/35, regardless of what tyres im using, on big rounabouts, mini roundabouts, hell i even got knee down a few times on old north road on the weekend.
On the otherhand, I tried it on a zx10, and its a hell of a lot more difficult.


Just imagine what you can get down if you got an even smaller bike for your size.

So to summarise people's responses.... "It's stupid, wanky and DANGEROUS, unless it's me."

[Waylander]

Hey tom, you do know that in order to get your knee down properly, you need to have a bike right? Oh and a liscence, registration and WoF if you REALLY want it to be legal.

[boomer]

Hey tom, you do know that in order to get your knee down properly, you need to have a bike right? Oh and a liscence, registration and WoF if you REALLY want it to be legal.

is gay legal in NZ gaylander..?

[Coyote]

there are some corners where u can get ur knee down and not speed remember u dont hve to ride to the recomended speed limit around corners and its a fun way of passing the time on a long trip
Like roundabouts

Seriously, with all those impatient SUVs egging you to go as fast as possible and stop holiding them back (even though you're doing them a favour cause if you weren't in their way they'd go too fast and flip over)

[Waylander]

is gay legal in NZ gaylander..?
You should know the nswere to that on already.

How's the honda?

[riffer]

Just remember fellers that the inevitable result of trying to get your knee on the ground on a public road is usually contact of said knee with a cats eye.

This apparently is not recommended.

I wouldn't know though. My legs aren't long enough (or supple enough) to allow me to get my knee down on my RF without also getting the handlebar ends touching as well.

[Fatjim]

Some of the nicest people get the knee down on the road.

But they probably wank, given the statistical probability.

[saul]

Some of the nicest people get the knee down on the road.

But they probably wank, given the statistical probability.

I have just recently seen Bruce Anstey (sp) get his knee down on the road and he appears to be a very nice chap:innocent: :love: NW200:rockon:

[moT]

i just enjoy getting my knee down i do it every day when traveling to tech, (when i had my bike and licence) just for the fact of doing it and that it gives you a better sence of angle turning road etc. i learnt how to get my knee down on the road before the track and if u do it every day it becomes second nature, i got my knee down in the wet on a roundabout not really thinking about it its great fun.

[moT]

Just remember fellers that the inevitable result of trying to get your knee on the ground on a public road is usually contact of said knee with a cats eye.

This apparently is not recommended.

I wouldn't know though. My legs aren't long enough (or supple enough) to allow me to get my knee down on my RF without also getting the handlebar ends touching as well.

cats eyes are not too bad just make sure u got good velcrow on ur knee slider otherwise you will be looking for it later i lost a few perfectly good knee sliders that way. and anyone can get there knee down dont tell urself u cant

[pritch]

Attached (hopefully) is a picture of Bruce Anstey manifestly failing to get his knee down at the NW 200. He highsided in one race and then won everything except the raffle....

While getting the knee down may be legal on the road, if a keen constable decides it's evidence of dangerous driving it could cost you an awful lot of money trying to prove otherwise.

I'd like to thank personally all those who provided "creative" responses to this thread. Too many to award bling to you all but I enjoyed the laughs.

[kiwifruit]

motorcycles should be banned

[saul]

Attached (hopefully) is a picture of Bruce Anstey manifestly failing to get his knee down at the NW 200. He highsided in one race and then won everything except the raffle....

While getting the knee down may be legal on the road, if a keen constable decides it's evidence of dangerous driving it could cost you an awful lot of money trying to prove otherwise.

I'd like to thank personally all those who provided "creative" responses to this thread. Too many to award bling to you all but I enjoyed the laughs.


That must be last years bike mate as this years was the relentless TAS and was all Black with white.

Anstey won a hat trick on the 600's with the best racing I have seen for a while:love:

A shame that he did highside the 1000 but he still got a second in that what a clever lad:sunny: woot woot.

[Drew]

And you would want to, why? Wank factor?I'm sure you do stuff on your bike that I would wonder, "why" about, so what does it matter if some of us want to drag our sliders?

It may just be something to wank on about, but since that's what motorcylists do a lot of, where's the harm? It can be done safely, without speeding, so :whocares:

[saul]

The North West 200 is a much better topic than knee down. lol sorry Tom:yes: :dodge:

Here is BA bike from this years racing:love: :sunny: looks like Steve Platter behind him

[mark247]

motorcycles should be banned

And cars, and planes and boats. People drown in boats and fall out of planes so they are just as bad. Walking should be banned also, i might stub my toe or something.

[saul]

There ya go the down load speed was good to:sunny:

[scracha]

cats eyes are not too bad just make sure u got good velcrow on ur knee slider otherwise you will be looking for it later i lost a few perfectly good knee sliders that way. and anyone can get there knee down dont tell urself u cant

Tom, you're my hero. Can you take a noob like me out for lessons as I've never got my knee down.

[smoky]

If I tried to get my knee down I'd fall off, too fat an old. besides my legs are too short and I doubt I'd get pants with knee sliders in the right place.
I think I’ll just stick to wank factor.

What’s all this bullshit about keeping to the speed limit, I don't believe you all for a minute, your just trying to avoid grief from certain KB posters - if you got the attitude to be getting your knee down then there's no way your gonna be sticking to speed limits - who you tryin to kid?
:whistle:

I speed - shouldn't, but do. I'll end up paying for it one day.
just like gettin ya knee down - one day you'll get it wrong and the'll most likely be a price to pay.

[MidnightMike]

Knee down?

My legs are so long i could get my knee down in a straight line.

[moT]

If I tried to get my knee down I'd fall off, too fat an old. besides my legs are too short and I doubt I'd get pants with knee sliders in the right place.
I think I’ll just stick to wank factor.

What’s all this bullshit about keeping to the speed limit, I don't believe you all for a minute, your just trying to avoid grief from certain KB posters - if you got the attitude to be getting your knee down then there's no way your gonna be sticking to speed limits - who you tryin to kid?
:whistle:

I speed - shouldn't, but do. I'll end up paying for it one day.
just like gettin ya knee down - one day you'll get it wrong and the'll most likely be a price to pay.

on a sharp enough curve in a 100kph zone its easy to get knee down or around a roundabout on the way to work ofcourse u can speed and get it down then u can get done. i got my knee down infront of a cop didnt pull me over and i feel geting it touching gives better sence of road bike etc and its safer when i go around the track without geting it down it feels wierd

[moT]

Tom, you're my hero. Can you take a noob like me out for lessons as I've never got my knee down.

yeah sure dude im getting a new bike soon id be happy to

[Reckless]

Tom Tom Tom,
Let an old fart with many years experience tell you a Secret.
Unless your leaned over and off the edge of the rear tyre and going like the clappers it looks a bit uncool sliding your arse off the seat and chucking your knee on the ground around the local roundabout down the road. You'd be the talk of the rest of the guys. If it flicks your switch keep doin it. But understand the reason why all the bikers are smiling when they meet you.

Let me set you a task. Go and take a pick of your rear tyre and post it. Then we will tell you if it qualifies as a knee slider machine. You can always tell alot by a riders rear tyre. And for fuck sake don't go out and tip it over for the sake of a pic.

It reminds me of a story. Was coming across the Waipuna bridge on the VTR into Pakuranga. Passed this guy on a new bike with new leathers etc. Just going normal pace, cutting through, tryin to get home. As i approached the next lights, turning left, I was in the right hand lane. He came up the inside of me, moved his butt way off to the left of the seat, stuck his knee down and when around the corner about 10k faster than me. Well fuck me i nearly laughed my head off. We where only doin 80k. We stopped at the next set of lights and he looked triumphantly over at me. I thought about taking off and lifting the front through a couple of gears so he could listen to the twin screeming its head off. BUT I just couldn't burst his bubble, so i followed him for a few meters and let the traffic get in the way. B4 I rode on. Ain't I just the most kindest guy.

[slowpoke]

cats eyes are not too bad just make sure u got good velcrow on ur knee slider otherwise you will be looking for it later i lost a few perfectly good knee sliders that way.

So why did you hit the cats eyes? I seriously doubt you chose to hit them, therefore you must have slightly misjudged the corners, repeatedly....be interesting if you slightly misjudge it on the exit of a left hander, run wide, and you are already at max lean with your knee on the deck...

That's the problem with riding close to the limit: there's no margin for error

As someone once told me "You don't know what you don't know". You don't know if last weeks rain has created a pothole, you don't know what's fallen out the back of a ute, you don't know about the truck broken down that cars are passing on your side of the road etc ad nauseum.

Aaaah, who am I kidding, you are young and they've taught you everything you need to know at tech so why would you listen to old slow guys like me?

Just one bit of advice; when you are in front of the judge after killing a cyclist don't use the line "it feels weird to corner without my knee on the ground" it might not go down too well..........

[Reckless]

So why did you hit the cats eyes? I seriously doubt you chose to hit them, therefore you must have slightly misjudged the corners, repeatedly....be interesting if you slightly misjudge it on the exit of a left hander, run wide, and you are already at max lean with your knee on the deck...

Just one bit of advice; when you are in front of the judge after killing a cyclist don't use the line "it feels weird to corner without my knee on the ground" it might not go down too well..........

ouch slowpoke! Its not hard to knock a knee slider of even at half the speed limit if you jamb your knee out.

Killing a cyclist..... thats a bit heavy I didn't read into his comments that he was boasting about going 160k in a fifty. He was just hanging off the side on the way to work. You can do that at walking pace. Might look a bit silly but Tom never said he was endangering anyone,

[Fat Tony]

I wank my knees at every oportunity on the road. Over here, if caught, it'll see you with a few more points to added to your licence for undue care and attention, or dangerous driving... some people have no sense of humour

[Puddlejumper]

I've had my knee on the ground a couple of times. Mind you, me and the bike were sliding across the road on it at the time. Personally I reckon its bloody sore. Still what ever gets you off.

[slowpoke]

ouch slowpoke! Its not hard to knock a knee slider of even at half the speed limit if you jamb your knee out.

Killing a cyclist..... thats a bit heavy I didn't read into his comments that he was boasting about going 160k in a fifty. He was just hanging off the side on the way to work. You can do that at walking pace. Might look a bit silly but Tom never said he was endangering anyone,

Yeah, lots melodrama, but that's what ya get for watching too much day time TV....

Nope, it's not hard to knock a kneeslider off....but he's hitting cats eyes and I'm pretty sure he didn't intend to hit them...and he admits to having (unintentionally) hit them a few times. This indicates to me that he's misjudged his line...what happens if rather than coming in too tight he runs wide?

I know, you can get your knee down in a carpark, but he's talking about open road riding "on a sharp enough curve in a 100kph zone its easy to get knee down". Run wide and hit a cyclist at 100kph and there's a fair chance the cyclist isn't going to see another birthday. Yep, it's an extreme example but it's also something that could easily happen.

I'm definitely not in the "track god" category, but I don't mind takin' it to the track and I know that even hanging off as much as you like you still need a fair bit of lean on to plant a puck. The only way to maintain that lean is with a fair bit of speed and commitment to a particular line even when sub-100kph. In my opinion, and it's a pretty worthless opinion just ask my missus (if she wants my opinion she normally gives it to me...), that sort speed and commitment is inappropriate for road riding given the traffic and road conditions in NZ.

[hurricane_r]

lol wouldnt get a knee down unless i was pushing it,

or ur hanging way to far off for yes...... wank factor,

[mark247]

You say he might kill a cyclist if he is getting his knee down doing a tight left corner right on the left side of the road. I have riden with Tom a fair few times, he gets his knee down when he is in the middle of his lane going around a corner, and hes not going too fast. I follow around the corner at the same speed but just dont put my knee down. What he is doing isnt dangerous at all. If he likes doing it good on him.

You guys are saying it as if he is going into the corner at the top speed possible trying to get the quickest line hense getting his knee down, its nothing like that.

[Reckless]

hes not going too fast. I follow around the corner at the same speed but just dont put my knee down. What he is doing isnt dangerous at all. If he likes doing it good on him.

You guys are saying it as if he is going into the corner at the top speed possible trying to get the quickest line hense getting his knee down, its nothing like that.

ye what I thought couple of 18 years old doin it in "style":rockon:
Hey might be a bit of a fun day to go to Tepuke.
Have a look at Toms "style".
We might be witnessing the birth of a future champion.
We could all do it: 20 big Bikes, 50k, knees down. :gob:

[Storm]

Would make a hell of a shot for the photo comp! Give it a go :D:D

[James Deuce]

One of the things I've noticed about riders who regularly get their knee down on the road is that they assume that the road they rode yesterday is the same today. Knee down tends to limit your corrective action options.

[pritch]

Roundabouts are good for getting the knee down.

If they are near a gas station they are also a good place to find diesel being dropped all over the road from recently filled vans and trucks.

Actually I seem to recall that we've had reports on KB of such things causing upsets...

[moT]

Tom Tom Tom,
Let an old fart with many years experience tell you a Secret.
Unless your leaned over and off the edge of the rear tyre and going like the clappers it looks a bit uncool sliding your arse off the seat and chucking your knee on the ground around the local roundabout down the road. You'd be the talk of the rest of the guys. If it flicks your switch keep doin it. But understand the reason why all the bikers are smiling when they meet you.

Let me set you a task. Go and take a pick of your rear tyre and post it. Then we will tell you if it qualifies as a knee slider machine. You can always tell alot by a riders rear tyre. And for fuck sake don't go out and tip it over for the sake of a pic.

It reminds me of a story. Was coming across the Waipuna bridge on the VTR into Pakuranga. Passed this guy on a new bike with new leathers etc. Just going normal pace, cutting through, tryin to get home. As i approached the next lights, turning left, I was in the right hand lane. He came up the inside of me, moved his butt way off to the left of the seat, stuck his knee down and when around the corner about 10k faster than me. Well fuck me i nearly laughed my head off. We where only doin 80k. We stopped at the next set of lights and he looked triumphantly over at me. I thought about taking off and lifting the front through a couple of gears so he could listen to the twin screeming its head off. BUT I just couldn't burst his bubble, so i followed him for a few meters and let the traffic get in the way. B4 I rode on. Ain't I just the most kindest guy.

well in answer to your task here is a pic dont mind the strip in the middle that was from a lot of commuting

[Waylander]

You say he might kill a cyclist if he is getting his knee down doing a tight left corner right on the left side of the road. I have riden with Tom a fair few times, he gets his knee down when he is in the middle of his lane going around a corner, and hes not going too fast. I follow around the corner at the same speed but just dont put my knee down. What he is doing isnt dangerous at all. If he likes doing it good on him.

You guys are saying it as if he is going into the corner at the top speed possible trying to get the quickest line hense getting his knee down, its nothing like that.

I think I just figured out your Flame Warrior title lol.

[moT]

im not sure if my tyre pic came up so im gonna upload it again

[moT]

and going back to my first ever statement i was just stateing that it is legal to get ur knee down if ur not endangering other ppl or speeding for whatever reason u want.. and when getting knee down there is still lots of room for error you dont have to ride on the edge all the time

[mark247]

I think I just figured out your Flame Warrior title lol.

wtf is flame warrior? knowing you its either a computer game or anime. please explain or i will go super saiyan on you

[James Deuce]

and going back to my first ever statement i was just stateing that it is legal to get ur knee down if ur not endangering other ppl or speeding for whatever reason u want.. and when getting knee down there is still lots of room for error you dont have to ride on the edge all the time

Tell that to the mate who got done for reckless one day for getting his knee down and careless for falling off on diesel the next. In 1991.

[moT]

wtf is flame warrior? knowing you its either a computer game or anime. please explain or i will go super saiyan on you

its a name of a famous statesman in rome The first true flame warrior was the Roman statesman, Cicero, who wrote various insulting letters to other Romans in the provinces this was to a guy called Marc Antony
most of them went along the lines of this
Marce! Ede stercem meum et morere! (Marcus! Eat my shit and die!)
marc replied :Cicero! Noli dicere!!! Malum vir es et crassus! (Cicero! Don't say that! You are a bad man, and you're fat)

[Waylander]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/fw_pollbooth.php?

[moT]

Tell that to the mate who got done for reckless one day for getting his knee down and careless for falling off on diesel the next. In 1991.

no idea who are these unfortunate ppl

[James Deuce]

Que? A mate of mine was done on two consecutive days. 1st Day: Reckless for getting his knee down on a roundabout. The very next day he was charged with Careless for falling off on diesel on a motorway on-ramp. Both convictions stuck.

Get it now?

You CAN get done for getting your knee down. I can't see you winning in court either.

[mikey]

Yeah, lots melodrama, but that's what ya get for watching too much day time TV....

Nope, it's not hard to knock a kneeslider off....but he's hitting cats eyes and I'm pretty sure he didn't intend to hit them...and he admits to having (unintentionally) hit them a few times. This indicates to me that he's misjudged his line...what happens if rather than coming in too tight he runs wide?

I know, you can get your knee down in a carpark, but he's talking about open road riding "on a sharp enough curve in a 100kph zone its easy to get knee down". Run wide and hit a cyclist at 100kph and there's a fair chance the cyclist isn't going to see another birthday. Yep, it's an extreme example but it's also something that could easily happen.

I'm definitely not in the "track god" category, but I don't mind takin' it to the track and I know that even hanging off as much as you like you still need a fair bit of lean on to plant a puck. The only way to maintain that lean is with a fair bit of speed and commitment to a particular line even when sub-100kph. In my opinion, and it's a pretty worthless opinion just ask my missus (if she wants my opinion she normally gives it to me...), that sort speed and commitment is inappropriate for road riding given the traffic and road conditions in NZ.

are you stuck a five hundred k from civiliastion(if you can call wairarapa that) for another fornight?

[moT]

are you stuck a five hundred k from civiliastion(if you can call wairarapa that) for another fornight?

huh where is wairarapa

[moT]

Que? A mate of mine was done on two consecutive days. 1st Day: Reckless for getting his knee down on a roundabout. The very next day he was charged with Careless for falling off on diesel on a motorway on-ramp. Both convictions stuck.

Get it now?

You CAN get done for getting your knee down. I can't see you winning in court either.


He must of been doing it very recklessly and carelessly

[mark247]

sounds like someone i know

[Reckless]

im not sure if my tyre pic came up so im gonna upload it again


Fark me!!! your not riding it like that are ya. The damn belts are showing through . If you are your a crazy shit. Looks like it was smoked up to get it like that.

Other than that I can see a little bit of tyre B4 the edge but your doin ok. Your tyre probably wraps around a bit more then ours on the bigger bikes.
And its a bit grained up so you must be pushin a a bit. So my advice is get a new tyre like NOW!!! Go easy on the road and do some track days or join a club and start racing.

[moT]

Fark me!!! your not riding it like that are ya. The damn belts are showing through . If you are your a crazy shit. Looks like it was smoked up to get it like that.

Other than that I can see a little bit of tyre B4 the edge but your doin ok. Your tyre probably wraps around a bit more then ours on the bigger bikes.
And its a bit grained up so you must be pushin a a bit. So my advice is get a new tyre like NOW!!! Go easy on the road and do some track days or join a club and start racing.

its my dual compound tyre Steel and rubber steel for the milage rubber for the grip..nah i got a new tyre now this shitty shinko but u wld be suprised how many ks u can get on a tyre down to the cables when you get past the cables and the rubber underneath it starts to bubble then u know u got about 40kms left

[moT]

and yeah i am geting into raceing i just did the vmcc round 1 and i go to track days

[Reckless]

its my dual compound tyre Steel and rubber steel for the milage rubber for the grip..nah i got a new tyre now this shitty shinko but u wld be suprised how many ks u can get on a tyre down to the cables when you get past the cables and the rubber underneath it starts to bubble then u know u got about 40kms left

Well mate I've done my bit for sticking up for you throughout this thread.
But the above comment and the pic of a tyre your proud to ride on, have done it for me.
Your a stupid little kid playing big boys games. Riding Knee down on a tyre like that is pure stupidity.
Get your shit together mate and be better than the other stupid dumb shit boy racers out there.

[moT]

Well mate I've done my bit for sticking up for you throughout this thread.
But the above comment and the pic of a tyre your proud to ride on, have done it for me.
Your a stupid little kid playing big boys games. Riding Knee down on a tyre like that is pure stupidity.
Get your shit together mate and be better than the other stupid dumb shit boy racers out there.

and who do you think you are to assume such things i have never met you, i never said anything nor implied that i was proud of that tyre i got a new one that day i appreciate the sticking up for me but thats unnessary.

[mark247]

Well mate I've done my bit for sticking up for you throughout this thread.
But the above comment and the pic of a tyre your proud to ride on, have done it for me.
Your a stupid little kid playing big boys games. Riding Knee down on a tyre like that is pure stupidity.
Get your shit together mate and be better than the other stupid dumb shit boy racers out there.

Yep, over the top mate. I know of many "experienced" riders who have riden around on tyres with no tread, mainly because they cant afford a new one yet. I'm sure in your life you have done a few silly things as well man.

[Kickaha]

Yep, over the top mate. I know of many "experienced" riders who have riden around on tyres with no tread, mainly because they cant afford a new one yet. I'm sure in your life you have done a few silly things as well man.

I don't know of any "experienced" rider who would be prepared to take a chance on running a tyre that far, most of them have to much respect for their machinery and their own lives

[mark247]

I don't know of any "experienced" rider who would be prepared to take a chance on running a tyre that far, most of them have to much respect for their machinery and their own lives

Yes but a lot of people ride around on tyres with no tread, and that photos of Tom's is of a tyre that had no tread + about 100km. Yes i agree, its not good lol

[Reckless]

and who do you think you are to assume such things i have never met you, i never said anything nor implied that i was proud of that tyre i got a new one that day i appreciate the sticking up for me but thats unnessary.

Thats bullshit mate! You said several times how you could get xxx amount of miles out of a tyre down to the belts. So don't come over all offended now.


Yep, over the top mate. I know of many "experienced" riders who have riden around on tyres with no tread, mainly because they cant afford a new one yet. I'm sure in your life you have done a few silly things as well man.

You two can stick together as much as you like but I thought you where a couple of keen young kids havin a bit of Knee down fun. But in the last few posts you have displayed the typical boy racer attitude we are all coming to dislike! Read back trough the posts I was on your side, until "Silly" (as you say above) turned to "stupid"

Man! I wanted Slowpoke to be so wrong but apologies mate looks like you nailed it.

[mark247]

Thats bullshit mate! You said several times how you could get xxx amount of miles out of a tyre down to the belts. So don't come over all offended now.



You two can stick together as much as you like but I thought you where a couple of keen young kids havin a bit of Knee down fun. But in the last few posts you have displayed the typical boy racer attitude we are all coming to dislike! Read back trough the posts I was on your side, until "Silly" (as you say above) turned to "stupid"

Man! I wanted Slowpoke to be so wrong but apologies mate looks like you nailed it.

Mate, you have never seen me ride. I have a brand new tyre on the front and the back, and i always plan to have good tyres on my bike. Just because im defending my mate doesnt mean i am my mate. You have every right to have your opinion, but at least know who you are talking about before you go and make assumptions. But yeah, whatever, believe what you want, you obviously know everything.

[MSTRS]

Mark247 and Tom - most of the others here are trying to help you two ride (on the road) safely, without un-necessary attention from the 5-0 and for as long as possible. Obviously neither of you are interested in learning other than by bitter personal experience. Good luck to the pair of you. You are going to need it.

[mark247]

Mark247 and Tom - most of the others here are trying to help you two ride (on the road) safely, without un-necessary attention from the 5-0 and for as long as possible. Obviously neither of you are interested in learning other than by bitter personal experience. Good luck to the pair of you. You are going to need it.

Where did i mention that i get my knee on the ground on the road???????? Far out!!!

[Toaster]

Brilliant.....bwing to ya boaf....:yes:

Exactly..... some days I think some people forget to put their brains in. It scares me that they share the same road.

[Toaster]

Mark247 and Tom - most of the others here are trying to help you two ride (on the road) safely, without un-necessary attention from the 5-0 and for as long as possible. Obviously neither of you are interested in learning other than by bitter personal experience. Good luck to the pair of you. You are going to need it.

I feel sorry for the emergency services - they don't need to scrape up more riders just because they were stupid.

[DMNTD]

Knee down on road....illegal,move on.
Riding without tread on tyres...fucking stupid,move on.
Riding without tread around me...unhealthy decision.

[Toaster]

Guys, learn from those that have been there..... when it goes wrong, and one day it will, you will really regret doing things like that. Trust me, I know.

[MSTRS]

Where did i mention that i get my knee on the ground on the road???????? Far out!!!

You didn't. But your passionate defence of your mate leads to the supposition that you condone his riding/attitude, which leaves us with the impression that your riding is also 'dodgy'.
Even if it isn't.

[mark247]

Look this is starting to bug me. Tom has been talking about getting ya knee down, and i have added my opinion, and also defended tom ( i know him well ) when people have assumed things that he has done. But some of you guys are assuming that just because i am friends, and ride with him ( sometimes, he doesnt have a road bike at the moment ) you guys are just assuming that i am ( and tom ) an idiot rider. Now I know its all great looking like the wise guy sorting out a few "boyracer" kids, but know who you are talking to before you assume crap like that. I am certainly not a dangerous rider when on the road, i used to be a bit of a racer but i have since been hit by a car ( not my fault ) and learnt my lessions. Im no nana, but im no idiot. Thank you.

[Krusti]

I have trouble getting my knee down. Does not help that I ride side saddle.....<_<

[aff-man]

If you are getting your knee down, on a decent sized bike, then you are riding hard.

Only ever got knee down on the 750. Heaps at the track and only once or twice on the road. But That was without me trying to get it down. Trying to get it down at places that have like round abouts mean either your waaaay to big for your bike, your suspension is shot, or you are hanging off your bike something cronic and so would be considered dangerous driving.

[mark247]

If you are getting your knee down, on a decent sized bike, then you are riding hard.

Only ever got knee down on the 750. Heaps at the track and only once or twice on the road. But That was without me trying to get it down. Trying to get it down at places that have like round abouts mean either your waaaay to big for your bike, your suspension is shot, or you are hanging off your bike something cronic and so would be considered dangerous driving.

I totally agree, its a totally different story if you are getting your knee down on a GSXR1000 or a GSXR250. If you were going to get your knee down on a thou ( even though if DMNTD is right and it is illegal ) you would have to be doing something else illegal as well, i suspect.

[EroSamnin]

If I got me knee down I would ruin my pants! (inside and out) Fok that shit. I can't afrord new pants. I hang off the opposite side of the bike just to be different.

[moT]

i admit rideing on the wires is bad but ffs its not the end of the world theres still a lot to go before it pops. i still believe getting ur knee down is stil harmless fun and sorry to to guys who had there cry in this forum you are allowed to express your opinions, look at yourselvs before you judge others i bet you have done something more stupid than that

[MSTRS]

Maybe we have, maybe not. But we don't defend our 'right' to be stupid or claim it is legal...

[moT]

i asked an officer about getting knee down he said its fine if we dont do it speeding or endangering other ppl

[Krusti]

i asked an officer about getting knee down he said its fine if we dont do it speeding or endangering other ppl

Be carefull, it's a trap ! :laugh: You know what those officers are like.:shifty:

[kiwifruit]

look at yourselvs before you judge others i bet you have done something more stupid than that

Never!! :innocent:

[yungatart]

Guys, learn from those that have been there..... when it goes wrong, and one day it will, you will really regret doing things like that. Trust me, I know.

What he said!
Actually TBH, we don't need another KB funeral - I suggest you leave here before your number is up, and save us all some grief.

[mark247]

Thinking positive i see.

[Skyryder]

Roundabouts are good for getting the knee down.

If they are near a gas station they are also a good place to find diesel being dropped all over the road from recently filled vans and trucks.

Actually I seem to recall that we've had reports on KB of such things causing upsets...


Yep..............its called hands down and the really impressive bit is to get back up without stopping. :mellow:

Skyryder

[moT]

Yep..............its called hands down and the really impressive bit is to get back up without stopping. :mellow:

Skyryder

Just Hack it get on that bike and go thru that diesel again and again faster and harder until you dont come off lock up ur breaks on it make sure u let that diesel know that it made a bad choice makeing u come off! when i come off i go back and do it again until i have conqured it it always works, like comeing off on a gravel road now i know how to ride in gravel v well 1. doesnt make you scared of whatever you came off on 2. increases confidence 3.it may seem crazy but it works 4. if you come off more than 5 times retrying sleep on it and do it again tomorrow

[slopster]

Well I guarentee that riding on your wires at cautious speeds is safer than riding hard on good tyres. Riding hard on those tyres is not smart but remember that there was still plenty of tread on the sides.

[moT]

i think this thread had gone down hill since about the middle

[Waylander]

i think this thread had gone down hill since about the middle
Middle? Mate it was toast from the start.

[Deviant Esq]

i admit rideing on the wires is bad but ffs its not the end of the world theres still a lot to go before it pops.
Just because it can keep going a while before it pops does not mean that it's alright to ride on it. Come on, you should know better than that! The tyre is way past its ability to perform the task required of it. The rubber has worn away to leave the canvas, where there is decidedly less traction available. It's only a matter of time before it causes you to crash, even without the tyre popping. Learn from your crash? See below.


Just Hack it get on that bike and go thru that diesel again and again faster and harder until you dont come off lock up ur breaks on it make sure u let that diesel know that it made a bad choice makeing u come off! when i come off i go back and do it again until i have conqured it it always works, like comeing off on a gravel road now i know how to ride in gravel v well 1. doesnt make you scared of whatever you came off on 2. increases confidence 3.it may seem crazy but it works 4. if you come off more than 5 times retrying sleep on it and do it again tomorrow
While it's important to learn from your mistakes, the mentality displayed above is utter stupidity. It doesn't matter how many times you crash your bike and walk away, there is always a very real chance that you will not walk away from a crash, whether you were trying to conquer a problem or not. You should know that. You can't plan every crash. Sooner or later if you're not paying full attention or if your tyres are not up to the job you're asking of them, you'll have a crash you never saw coming. Time to grow up buddy, this is not a game. It could well be your early grave.

Just think about it.

[kevfromcoro]

just read through the whole thread,,and cant beleive some of the coments in here.ie. kiwifruit....motorcycles should be banned......well this is a motorcyle forum,,its our interest ..think you are in the wrong place to go making statements like that....also tom...ie. i have a few ks to go before your back tyre pops......well do u want it to pop? and then one of us will be scrapping you of the road......biking is fun..and a lot of it is about safety...ask an expericianed rider......come on...go and get youself a new tyre.....before it pops.....

[mark247]

just read through the whole thread,,and cant beleive some of the coments in here.ie. kiwifruit....motorcycles should be banned......well this is a motorcyle forum,,its our interest ..think you are in the wrong place to go making statements like that....also tom...ie. i have a few ks to go before your back tyre pops......well do u want it to pop? and then one of us will be scrapping you of the road......biking is fun..and a lot of it is about safety...ask an expericianed rider......come on...go and get youself a new tyre.....before it pops.....

he got a shinko, not really a step up from a bridgestone on the canvas. if you ask me, i think they are made out of clay and stones.

[moT]

EVERYONE I HAVE A NEW TYRE NOW!! IT WAS CHANGED THAT DAY and yes i do think rideing on a tyre like that is bad but how else are u supossed to get to a bike shop without great expence

[jahrasti]

EVERYONE I HAVE A NEW TYRE NOW!! IT WAS CHANGED THAT DAY and yes i do think rideing on a tyre like that is bad but how else are u supossed to get to a bike shop without great expence

Oh I don't know, possibly change it before it gets to that condition perhaps?

[Reckless]

i admit rideing on the wires is bad but ffs its not the end of the world theres still a lot to go before it pops.
Wrong- there is no way you can know how long before one of the steels puncture the tube or you ride over a sharp stone exactly in the worst spot. And the tyre goes bang!


i still believe getting ur knee down is stil harmless fun
It is! right place, right time, but you'll look like a right wally doin it around the local roundabout:yes:


sorry to to guys who had there cry in this forum you are allowed to express your opinions,
Typical can do no wrong attitude that kills people. No one here is "crying" they are trying to save you, or some innocent bystander some pain.


look at yourselvs before you judge others i bet you have done something more stupid than that
To judge yourself by the supidity of others is just crazy!! By saying I'm stupid but others are more stupid only makes you "stupid". Don't you wanna be better than that.

There ya go! I've broken only one reply of yours down to try and get you to see that your approach is very wrong.



Just Hack it get on that bike and go thru that diesel again and again faster and harder until you dont come off lock up ur breaks on it make sure u let that diesel know that it made a bad choice makeing u come off! when i come off i go back and do it again until i have conqured it it always works, like comeing off on a gravel road now i know how to ride in gravel v well 1. doesnt make you scared of whatever you came off on 2. increases confidence 3.it may seem crazy but it works 4. if you come off more than 5 times retrying sleep on it and do it again tomorrow

Mate that smacks of a rider who has no idea!
Its crazy statements like "teach that diesel" and "when I come off I do it again" that are making people react the way they are here!

Can't you tell when your bike steps out!
Can't you tell when it starts to loose traction!
Can't you push it till it gets loose! than a bit more into a slide! but not fall off!
Why do you say above that you have to fall off 5 times then sleep on it!
You don't have to fall off to push the boundry's!

You just don't seem to get it Tom. Between the sick looking tyre and the gung-ho comments you are creating your own image. And don't come over with this don't judge us before you meet us crap we are judging you on what you say here and now! I'm not one of these 80k riders either, I just wrote the VTR1000 off at 190k on the local loop. Probably why I'm a bit antsy about this as I still have a bit of whiplash after 7 months although I'm MX-ing and on the Z1 again. So take it from someone that knows!!

Mark 247! 10 points for sticking up for your mate. And you probably don't ride like him. But you owe it to him not to encourage or defend this attitude or you will have to shoulder some of the responsability when he hurts himself.

Tom you will be pleased to know thats my last effort. I have waisted enough of my break/work time trying to get the point through. I will unsubsribe to this thread now, so good luck, ride fast, but safe, like the rest of us. CYA

[moT]

Mate that smacks of a rider who has no idea!
Its crazy statements like "teach that diesel" and "when I come off I do it again" that are making people react the way they are here!

Can't you tell when your bike steps out!
Can't you tell when it starts to loose traction!
Can't you push it till it gets loose! than a bit more into a slide! but not fall off!
Why do you say above that you have to fall off 5 times then sleep on it!
You don't have to fall off to push the boundry's!

You just don't seem to get it Tom. Between the sick looking tyre and the gung-ho comments you are creating your own image. And don't come over with this don't judge us before you meet us crap we are judging you on what you say here and now! I'm not one of these 80k riders either, I just wrote the VTR1000 off at 190k on the local loop. Probably why I'm a bit antsy about this as I still have a bit of whiplash after 7 months although I'm MX-ing and on the Z1 again. So take it from someone that knows!!

Mark 247! 10 points for sticking up for your mate. And you probably don't ride like him. But you owe it to him not to encourage or defend this attitude or you will have to shoulder some of the responsability when he hurts himself.

Tom you will be pleased to know thats my last effort. I have waisted enough of my break/work time trying to get the point through. I will unsubsribe to this thread now, so good luck, ride fast, but safe, like the rest of us. CYA

you have obviously never seen me at the track and what do you know?

[vifferman]

Knee down in itself is not illegal.
Yet.
Although I'm sure there's a (safety)blanket rule/regulation to cover it.

You're NOT allowed to have fun on the road. Roading is a serious business.
As is policing it.


Very lucrative too. :yes:

[MSTRS]

you have obviously never seen me at the track and what do you know?

And that says it all.
FFS the road is NOT a track

[moT]

i never said the road was the track or did i ride on the road like it was the track apart from getting knee down but that can be done safely and its legal

[MSTRS]

I'm with Reckless - I give up too. Just don't take anyone else out when you shut your book.

[BigG]

Tom, Tom somebodys Son,
Rode his bike and did the Ton
The bike was sweet and he was loose
Went through deisel and cooked his goose!

[Storm]

Well dont Big G. Might be time you started a thread for Poet Of The Month, much like the photo of the month. You could be a star :D:D

[mark247]

You guys are classic, just bloody classic. lol.

[pritch]

Having now read this whole thread I have just one question.

Is Tom actually old enough to have a drivers licence?

[avgas]

For Christs' sake! its fun! Thats why!

Its all fun in games till someone looses a knee.
Then its just fantastically funny.

[Deano]

Its all fun in games till someone looses a knee.
Then its just fantastically funny.

Yeah - shouldn't be attempted without knee sliders eh.

[mark247]

Its all fun in games till someone looses a knee.
Then its just fantastically funny.

And for me its all fun and games until my bike starts blowing clouds of white smoke out of the exhaust. But i may be getting it fixed. Mechanics helping me. Im riding it into the shop today. Seriously you can smell my bike before you can hear my bike at the moment LOL

[mark247]

Having now read this whole thread I have just one question.

Is Tom actually old enough to have a drivers licence?



yes he is 15.

[MSTRS]

We hope he will not join the ranks of those who are forever young....

[mikey]

getting your knee down on public 50k roads is neither smart or clever.
but your the man if you get it grinding on your way up deanos hill.
niki will tell you so.

[pritch]

yes he is 15.

Well, actually that does explain quite a lot.:whistle:

I once read a suggestion that teenagers should look after all the little kids.
'Cause the little kids are always asking why? why? why?
But the teenagers have got all the answers.

[Quartermile]

Ok Tom, I know your a good guy and a good rider on the track and that this thread started with harmless intensions,
but some of the stupid things you have said, I beg you to at least tell these people your current licencing situation for the third, or forth time.

And yes Mark I know I'm a fag or whatever for bringing that up.

[Biff]

I got my knee down earlier this year, trying like buggery to pull my Blackbird around a tight right, she was loaded to the hilt with back box, panniers, tents, beer - mixed up with a bunch o' R1GXR types. I wish I'd been wearing knee sliders - The velcro on the my leathers I was wearing at the time, designed to hold on a knee slider, was rooted.

Kinda ironic dontja think.

[scracha]

Tom...were you the lad I met at Taupo at Frosty's trackday on the very tatty viffer with the tyre that was so bad you'd been black flagged (christ knows how it got thru scruting) and the footpegs that were finger tight?

I explained to you (if it was you) that when the tyres are down to the belt they can just go "pop" without warning and even if you're on a staight road that could mean nasty crash and gawd knows what'd happen mid-corner.

That bike screamed out "stop me" to any copper, never mind getting your knee down. Real life isn't like "torque the movie" dude and most of the guys on this forum have "been there, done that", visited the accident ward in their yoof and are merely trying to stop you doing the same. Save it for the track.

And if it wasn't you I met at Taupo then I guess all vfr400 owners aren't fags and have no money for rubber.

[mark247]

Ok Tom, I know your a good guy and a good rider on the track and that this thread started with harmless intensions,
but some of the stupid things you have said, I beg you to at least tell these people your current licencing situation for the third, or forth time.

And yes Mark I know I'm a fag or whatever for bringing that up.

What has that got to do with anything?

"Wait guys, this is all important, I only have my learners!"

[Ralph]

Far out Tom you really started something didn't ya :laugh:

Maybe next time if you start with a (Is it) instead of a (It is) it may save a
lot of explaining.
And for getting your knee down on a public road, well it's your knee do what you want.
However I don't know if it's "legal" and I'm guessing if a officer saw it you may
get away with it but he might consider it careless use or something like that.
Just be careful - time and a place for everything. :rockon:

[scumdog]

on a sharp enough curve in a 100kph zone its easy to get knee down or around a roundabout on the way to work ofcourse u can speed and get it down then u can get done. i got my knee down infront of a cop didnt pull me over and i feel geting it touching gives better sence of road bike etc and its safer when i go around the track without geting it down it feels wierd


I suggest you worry a little less about scuffing your knees and instead concentrate on upskilling your abilities in grammar and punctuation so us older people can understand you a little better.....

[MSTRS]

What's to understand? Most of us were also young, invincible and always right. A few of us even survived. Care to comment on the kneedown legalities?

[Ralph]

Most of us were also young, invincible and always right. A few of us even survived.

Yep I would go along with that, it's all fun and games till you spend a week in hospital or somthing to ponder the errors of ones ways. :pinch:


Care to comment on the kneedown legalities?

Now that sounds like something worth discussing :yes:

[Krusti]

I suggest you worry a little less about scuffing your knees and instead concentrate on upskilling your abilities in grammar and punctuation so us older people can understand you a little better.....


Us older people. :killingme :killingme Pissing myself! Age creeps up on you eh scumdog?

[Disco Dan]

OMFG ...cant believe I never bothered to read this thread.

If your taking a corner fast enough and leaning enough your knee will touch the ground right? So in saying that, by hanging off the bike like some sort of human crane, the bikes not leaning as far but your knees on the ground?

...sounds like cheating to me.

I have no desire to get my knee down, peg scraping however is a sign that im equaling the ability of my machine.


...Tom grow up, your gunna have yourself an accident getting your knee down on roundabouts with metal tires. You may want to go back to the shop and swap your ego for some training.

Gave me a right giggle this thread!

[quickbuck]

Just read the whole thread myself.

WTF? Why? Shit I must have nothing better to do today.

Tom, in about your lifetime again, you may realise there are a few errors in your attitude toward motorcycling.
Hope you are around long enough in one piece to realise that day...

Yes, Burt Munro did say "Jokers live more in 5 minutes on a motorsycle than some people live in a lifetime". (yes, note the spelling of motorcycle).

He did NOT mean live litterally 5 minutes!

[Ivan]

Heres my opinion about it.

Knee down your on full lean angel if something happens you have no time to react your fucked take it to the track

[moT]

some of you assume i cant ride a motorcycle and im in need of training and i ride with my ego i believe a person like that is more likely to cause an accident im not that person if u dont believe me try and keep up next track day..

[Morcs]

Heres my opinion about it.

Knee down your on full lean angel if something happens you have no time to react your fucked take it to the track

Exactly true. I was going round a roundabout, full lean, knee sparking away, and i hit a pot hole. Kittyhawk was right behind me and it wasnt terribly pretty. Managed to save it, but wouldve been a nasty low side nonetheless.

Knee on the ground is purely an indicator to feel where the track is in relation to how much lean you have. I used to hang off my bike like crazy just to do it, and did it heaps. It only really becomes useful when you have perfected it so your knee hits down when you almost run out of tyre, that way you can throw the bike into a corner, straight into hard lean and when your knee slams on the ground, tells you not to lean more.

I got my knees down on old north road last weekend on my new bike, with bt092's and wasnt even trying.

And Tom, i bet you suck at riding. I Should give you a NC30 masterclass of riding...

[moT]

Exactly true. I was going round a roundabout, full lean, knee sparking away, and i hit a pot hole. Kittyhawk was right behind me and it wasnt terribly pretty. Managed to save it, but wouldve been a nasty low side nonetheless.

Knee on the ground is purely an indicator to feel where the track is in relation to how much lean you have. I used to hang off my bike like crazy just to do it, and did it heaps. It only really becomes useful when you have perfected it so your knee hits down when you almost run out of tyre, that way you can throw the bike into a corner, straight into hard lean and when your knee slams on the ground, tells you not to lean more.

I got my knees down on old north road last weekend on my new bike, with bt092's and wasnt even trying.

And Tom, i bet you suck at riding. I Should give you a NC30 masterclass of riding...

if that you i assume its you in your avatar dont you remember me leaving you for dust at the kb track day i put my self behind you because i like to ride with other nc30s and im afraid you cant ride that bike and i was doing that track day on a set of touring shinko tyres if you want lessons i would be glad to give them

[yungatart]

Not all 15 y/o are dumb and stupid...please don't tar them all with Tom's brush.
Most of the 15 - 18 y/o on this forum are bright, intelligent and mature young people....and then there is Tom

[moT]

is that you infront of me im the dude looking back

[moT]

how old are you exactly? my bets are on the lesser side of 10 judging by the behaviour.

haha nice one.. im 19 and dont give me that crap ive heard it enough in this thread

[Quartermile]

What has that got to do with anything?

"Wait guys, this is all important, I only have my learners!"
I was under the impression he is currently diusqualified for the thrid time or something if I'm wrong, Sorry

[sunhuntin]

good lord, what a bleedin tosser!

the lowest my bikes got is the peg whacking a manhole several cm about road level. totally unintentional and annoying. have scraped the pedals on my old push bike a few times though... now that was fun.

mate... you can post a billion times what a great rider you are, and it wont convince us. im surprised your rep box is still green and not red! it matters not how someone rides... its his attitude that matters. the day i started feelin cocky, i had a car pull out from a stop sign and turn me into wonder woman for a few seconds. sure slowed me down.

do yourself a favour. type road rash into google and see what comes up. do you really want to end up scarred for life? possibly paralysed, depending on someone to wipe your ass and help you piss? what about ending up with limbs amputated?
or on the flipside, providing your lean gets away from you, living with the weight of anothers serious injury or death on your shoulders. thatd be almost as bad.

when i came off, my left leg and right knee copped the worst. my leg is now numb from the knee down, and my right knee cant stand being bent up for more than a minute or two. im 22... was 19 at the time. those pains will only get worse as i get older. trust me... its no fun.

everyone for the past 11 pages has tried to talk some common sense into you to try and stop you from hurting or killing yourself or someone else. you, so far, have refused to listen. so... that being the case, try not to leave too big of a mess for someone else to clean up.

[scracha]

this is just getting out of hand now no im not 15 yes it was me at the track day and im young fearless and invincible and can go faster than any motherfucker out there!!!

There's always someone faster/smarter/better than you. I rode fast and hard when I was 17 (sometimes on a bike too), scrawping pegs, punching taxi drivers mirrors, doing burnouts and pulling stoppies. I'd say I'm a lucky SOAB to have made it to my ghay Honda riding 30's.

As you're not listening to anyone on this forum then I'm sure your first big crash will slow you down....hopefully not permanently though.

Well at least your knee's would have kept you on the bike when the footpegs fell off :bye:

[moT]

good lord, what a bleedin tosser!

the lowest my bikes got is the peg whacking a manhole several cm about road level. totally unintentional and annoying. have scraped the pedals on my old push bike a few times though... now that was fun.

mate... you can post a billion times what a great rider you are, and it wont convince us. im surprised your rep box is still green and not red! it matters not how someone rides... its his attitude that matters. the day i started feelin cocky, i had a car pull out from a stop sign and turn me into wonder woman for a few seconds. sure slowed me down.

do yourself a favour. type road rash into google and see what comes up. do you really want to end up scarred for life? possibly paralysed, depending on someone to wipe your ass and help you piss? what about ending up with limbs amputated?
or on the flipside, providing your lean gets away from you, living with the weight of anothers serious injury or death on your shoulders. thatd be almost as bad.

when i came off, my left leg and right knee copped the worst. my leg is now numb from the knee down, and my right knee cant stand being bent up for more than a minute or two. im 22... was 19 at the time. those pains will only get worse as i get older. trust me... its no fun.

everyone for the past 11 pages has tried to talk some common sense into you to try and stop you from hurting or killing yourself or someone else. you, so far, have refused to listen. so... that being the case, try not to leave too big of a mess for someone else to clean up.

DUDE i dont condone reckless driving on the road, I know what it feels like to come off, the reason ive been saying to ppl im a good rider is because they think im incompident ask the ppl who have seen me ride up close, i do all my speeding on the track where its controled, im raceing in the winter series ffs

[Morcs]

DUDE i dont condone reckless driving on the road, I know what it feels like to come off, the reason ive been saying to ppl im a good rider is because they think im incompident ask the ppl who have seen me ride up close, i do all my speeding on the track where its controled, im raceing in the winter series ffs.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise Sunhuntin isnt a dude...

Stop going on about how good you are on a track, as they are only track days, where the majority of other people (myself included) are there to have fun, not race. If you were any good on a track you would be racing. I dont hear any of the good racers posting on here about how good they are.

Im guessing you are a reckless rider, apart from that you are probably an OK rider at best, you still have a lot to learn - im saying this as ive had exactly the same said to me.

Recently I found something, you might find it too soon hopefully, A will to Live.

[Mom]

Seems we all have a bit of a problem with wasting time on the hard headed youngens MSTRS.

I have just been scrolling through some of your previous post, Tom and I found this little gem from you....

"They impounded my bike! I cannot forgive them for that! there is now an empty void where my bike used to be."

Perhaps you might like to explain what they impounded your bike for, apart from the disqualification you thought had expired. See mate you have much to learn, read what people are saying to you here, take it on board and perhaps you will survive to give similar advice to the next generation of youngsters. Have a look at this thread if you havn't already, pretty much sums things up really.



http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=50644

[Colapop]

The fastest motherfucker out there...

Don't tell me... you've run from the 'pigs'... you've never had to obey the road rules (like the speed limit) coz even at 300kph you're a safe rider and you donate small children to the orphanage...? I hope I grow up to be just like you... you're my hero....

[Waylander]

im sick of this shit im not wasteing any more of my time on this thread
Like hell. You love it admit it.

[sunhuntin]

dont let the tyre pop on ya on the way out....

[jonbuoy]

Geeze were you guys never young and wreckless? Sure you have his best interests at heart and its true if you want to carry on riding till your pension days your going to have to save the heroics for the race track. I don't think its an outrageously stupid question - especially when you see the pictures magazines like Performance Bike put on the front cover. The question probably should have been is it wise to try and get your knee down on a public road.

[Trudes]

I'm not condoning Tom's attitude etc, but his initial statement was about getting your knee down on public roads, and I watched the vid in this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42983&highlight=knee+down) thread, and still don't see what the problem is.

[Waylander]

I'm not condoning Tom's attitude etc, but his initial statement was about getting your knee down on public roads, and I watched the vid in this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42983&highlight=knee+down) thread, and still don't see what the problem is.
"to be honest you don't really need to get your knee down on the road..."

[mark247]

Im guessing you are a reckless rider, apart from that you are probably an OK rider at best, you still have a lot to learn

Look guys im not condoning any dangerous / bad / reckless / whatever you want to call it riding here but i just want to sort a few things out. I go to polytech with Tom and out of everyone on kiwibiker I am the only person who actually knows him well ( MidnightMike and Quartermile, i know you have met him. And yes Mike he did give you a free coke =P )

Personally, i used to ride pretty hardout on the road and take a few chances, but i have learnt since then ( quartermile, feel free to talk like an adult and tell me im wrong. ) I ride reasonbly carefully now and always make sure i know whats around me etc etc. I still ride sometimes at 120kmh etc etc like a lot of riders do, though, im not a perfect citizen. Every time i have ridden with Tom to and from tech i have never seen him do anything stupid on the road, now i cant vouch for him every time he has ridden, i know he has done a few stupid things in the past, so have i, but everyone does. None of you guys are perfect as some of you would like to make out to be. I find it great that you guys are trying to help a fellow rider and teach him a few things or two about riding, and i know a lot of you guys are just trying to do whats best. But you guys are really assuming a lot of things and saying pretty imature threatening things to a guy who may come across the wrong way ( its the internet, have some of you never talked to people in real life before and realised its A LOT different than some thread on the internet. ) Maybe if he introduced himself before he started writing threads about "get your knee down" and "you can live on avocados haha and started sharing his somewhat unique opinion on things. Now i know Tom is not a perfect rider, nobody is, but he is a good guy and I have no problem with him. I know the tyre down to the canvas was bad, yes yes yes, but seriously guys. Give him a break. I know he likes to talk about how he is racing the winter series and i know he likes to show off ( Come on Tom, you know im right =P ) but just leave him be. He is a good guy, most of you guys have no idea ( moan as much as you want but you guys dont know him, period. ) I know threads and chatting on the internet envolves a lot of assumptions when figuring out how a person really is, but you guys are way off. Im not trying to act like Toms big brother on here, im just trying to say it how it really is.

Im sure if Tom was random guy i had never met, i wouldnt be defending him like his, but i certainly wouldnt be writing some of the stuff you guys have written. To be perfectly honest, i wouldnt of posted at all.

You guys are trying to do whats right, but it just isnt working ( this thread is like 12 pages now, if comments on his riding had worked this thread would of finished at page 6 or something. )

[Morcs]

im sick of this shit im not wasteing any more of my time on this thread

Waaaay too much red rep methinks :yes:

[sunhuntin]

You guys are trying to do whats right, but it just isnt working ( this thread is like 12 pages now, if comments on his riding had worked this thread would of finished at page 6 or something. )

well, that being the case, i stand by my comment of him not leaving too big a mess for people like speedie, firefight and scumdog to clean up.

[btw, we are on page 14 now....]

[mark247]

well, that being the case, i stand by my comment of him not leaving too big a mess for people like speedie, firefight and scumdog to clean up.

[btw, we are on page 14 now....]

I guessed the page, sorry for the inconvienience.

The reason why im say it should of finished at page 6 is because people are just repeating one and other now trying to get there 2cents in which are exactly the same as what has already been said.

[Colapop]

I think the Mods aren't working hard enough here!

[Waylander]

pi2t58CRmbU

[jonbuoy]

Is this really any more dangerous than pulling a wheelie?? (other than the fact its just after a 30 zone) I only see it as a bit try hard.

[White trash]

My $0.02 (Not that anyone will be interested and everyone's probably gone home)

At age 17, I had an RGV250 and rode everywhere flat out. I mean everywhere.

Managed to get myself quite a reputation amongst my friends. Rumours would filter back through the good ol' grapevine about the really fast guy on the RGV who got his knee down everywhere and kicked everybodies arse.

At the time, I thought I was a fucken good rider. I always felt in control, and well within my comfort zone. One thing bugged me. Why the fuck did I keep falling off? I was always in my comfort zone, always bad luck.

14 years on and reflecting on my past riding habits, I'm mystified why the hell I'm still alive.

[Quartermile]

Is this really any more dangerous than pulling a wheelie?? (other than the fact its just after a 30 zone) I only see it as a bit try hard.

I think now its less that but more other comments he's made



Personally, i used to ride pretty hardout on the road and take a few chances, but i have learnt since then ( quartermile, feel free to talk like an adult and tell me im wrong. ) I ride reasonbly carefully now and always make sure i know whats around me etc etc. I still ride sometimes at 120kmh etc etc like a lot of riders do, though, im not a perfect citizen. Every time i have ridden with Tom to and from tech i have never seen him do anything stupid on the road, now i cant vouch for him every time he has ridden, i know he has done a few stupid things in the past, so have i, but everyone does. None of you guys are perfect as some of you would like to make out to be. I find it great that you guys are trying to help a fellow rider and teach him a few things or two about riding, and i know a lot of you guys are just trying to do whats best. But you guys are really assuming a lot of things and saying pretty imature threatening things to a guy who may come across the wrong way ( its the internet, have some of you never talked to people in real life before and realised its A LOT different than some thread on the internet. ) Maybe if he introduced himself before he started writing threads about "get your knee down" and "you can live on avocados haha and started sharing his somewhat unique opinion on things. Now i know Tom is not a perfect rider, nobody is, but he is a good guy and I have no problem with him. I know the tyre down to the canvas was bad, yes yes yes, but seriously guys. Give him a break. I know he likes to talk about how he is racing the winter series and i know he likes to show off ( Come on Tom, you know im right =P ) but just leave him be. He is a good guy, most of you guys have no idea ( moan as much as you want but you guys dont know him, period. ) I know threads and chatting on the internet envolves a lot of assumptions when figuring out how a person really is, but you guys are way off. Im not trying to act like Toms big brother on here, im just trying to say it how it really is.

I don't think anyone here is saying they're perfect infact they're saying the opposite really pointing out their mistakes so others can learn from them, "Smart people learn from their mistakes, Really smart people learn from others mistakes"

[Reckless]

I guessed the page, sorry for the inconvienience.

The reason why im say it should of finished at page 6 is because people are just repeating one and other now trying to get there 2cents in which are exactly the same as what has already been said.

Maybe just maybe we are concerned,
maybe just maybe our 2 cents worth is all 1 opinion bought on by the comments made,
maybe just maybe we are saying the same thing over and over because the message just isn't getting through!

[mark247]

Maybe just maybe we are concerned,
maybe just maybe our 2 cents worth is all 1 opinion bought on by the comments made,
maybe just maybe we are saying the same thing over and over because the message just isn't getting through!

How do you know its not getting through to him. He is defending himself because in the mits of all these great messages hes being given total shit. A few of you fellas have no idea how to get a message through to someone, guilt tripping, insulting, and convicting is not the way to give a message to a guy who just wanted to talk about getting his knee down. This thread has really given me a different opinion of kiwibiker forums.

[enigma51]

Cant sat I ever got my knee down took fucking dangerous

I also think most of the time its a bit of a wank factor and looking cool

[Biff]

Quit insulting fellow KBers please everyone. I've just spent 10 mins moving posts from here into PD, and I really can't be arsed to do it again.

Constructive criticism is good, as is sharing experiences and opinions. But flaming someone is liable to get you infracted (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=33936). And unless you've a can of KY handy - you don't want that to happen. Unless you ride a Honda.

:shit:

[cowpoos]

Cant sat I ever got my knee down took fucking dangerous

I also think most of the time its a bit of a wank factor and looking cool
funnyt how envious people always say that...lol...stir stir stir!!

[Bruiser]

How do you know its not getting through to him. He is defending himself because in the mits of all these great messages hes being given total shit. A few of you fellas have no idea how to get a message through to someone, guilt tripping, insulting, and convicting is not the way to give a message to a guy who just wanted to talk about getting his knee down. This thread has really given me a different opinion of kiwibiker forums.

Mark/Tom,

Look past the "guilt tripping, insulting, and convicting " and you'll also find some sage advice from wise, skilled and experienced riders. Some of these folk may be opiniated, but they have also buried friends who were as bulletproof, hard-out, fearless as Tom claims to be.

Why don't you give some thought to our motivation? A large number of us know some very very competent riders who maintained thier skills and their bikes with an almost perfectionist fervour, who have lost their lives due to pushing the limit, riding at 100%, a few milliseconds of inattention or for simply catching a bad break. Every time this happens we all hurt, especially when it is a well-respected forum-mate.

The last six months has seen this forum lose some very talented, race-proven track and road riders. And we are all growing sick and tired of the dreaded "Biker down" threads which are invariably followed by sad posts announcing hospital visiting times or funeral notices. A large number of these guys were intelilgent, skilled, experienced riders. Tom, can you put your hand on your heart and claim similar virtues? Please put aside your ego and listen to the messages emploring you to rethink your attitdue to your riding skills and bike maintenance.

Tom, when we read posts such as yours full of recklessness, boasting and sheer bluster, and from a relative newby, it is only reasonable that some will share the above experiences with the hope that ppl like you will see the sheer stupidity of their words, deeds and intentions.

"guilt tripping, insulting, and convicting..." ? no, not at all.

Expressing our exasperation at the arrogance of youth, sharing our own experiences, hoping against hope that Tom (and others) will pick up on it, will get past their dented egos, and perhaps save a life (even the lives of others)... THATis our motivation, and our hope.

Some may have trouble expressing themselves to you in such a way that you don't take offence, but be very clear about this, most of those who are critical of your attitude are genuinely attempting to ensure that one day you are an old codger giving a silly young man the chance of learning from your mistakes and experiences so they make it to 30.

Rant over.

[yod]

wow....this thread still going?? :laugh:

[kickingzebra]

some of you assume i cant ride a motorcycle and im in need of training and i ride with my ego i believe a person like that is more likely to cause an accident im not that person if u dont believe me try and keep up next track day..


Leave that till you have won at the nationals... And by then, you will know damn well that being on the podium in NZ still puts you at a level to run mid pack in aussie, and that is a nice level to not even qualify for international events.

To race at the front on an international level. Dude, if you can do it, then do it, but FFS, keep your mouth shut about your own abilities, let otheres do your braggin for you, works better, and feels better.

If you can beat scratcha on the track, great, then try beat Kwaka Kid, Keystone, HDT boy, if you can great. Try then to beat Vtec, Me, 2 smoker, Cowpoos, Nicko, Shaun, Jayracer, and Samsmith. If you can do that, then you have something to be proud of, but you probably won't be flying your own kite by that stage.

[skidMark]

And cars, and planes and boats. People drown in boats and fall out of planes so they are just as bad. Walking should be banned also, i might stub my toe or something.

OMG potatoes, weve gotta ban tarmac....somebody could trip and hurt themselves! lol

**imagines everybody walking round in one piece race leathers.....**

[mark247]

Some may have trouble expressing themselves to you in such a way that you don't take offence, but be very clear about this, most of those who are critical of your attitude are genuinely attempting to make sure that one day you are an old codger giving a young silly man a chance of making it to 30.

Im not disagreeing with you Bruiser, thats exactly what i mean. Some people have no idea how to communicate. You are one that actually does.

[Bruiser]

Im not disagreeing with you Bruiser, thats exactly what i mean. Some people have no idea how to communicate. You are one that actually does.

Precisely my point, Mark. Tom needs to overcome his bruised ego and take on board the real message - listen, learn and above all, take a step back and think before you drop your knee on the road and risk your life (and others' lives) , or before you ride on a tyre down to the wire.

[Drew]

Righto, I went for a real cool ride today, instead of doin my usual hero act, I took the advice of my friends, and toned it down a touch. What's odd tho, is I WAS dragging my knee, those who have ridden with me, will mostly agree, that I'm normally at the front of the bunch, and riding like an idiot, what they wont say is that I ever had my knee down! I literally, have never dragged my knee unless I was in a proper race event. Yet today, riding back from the limit, I was smooth, having a far more enjoyable ride, and wearin my sliders away frequently.

I feel this is strong evidence, in favor of knee draggin bein just as safe as not doin it.

[cowpoos]

Righto, I went for a real cool ride today, instead of doin my usual hero act, I took the advice of my friends, and toned it down a touch. What's odd tho, is I WAS dragging my knee, those who have ridden with me, will mostly agree, that I'm normally at the front of the bunch, and riding like an idiot, what they wont say is that I ever had my knee down! I literally, have never dragged my knee unless I was in a proper race event. Yet today, riding back from the limit, I was smooth, having a far more enjoyable ride, and wearin my sliders away frequently.

I feel this is strong evidence, in favor of knee draggin bein just as safe as not doin it.
your still a slow homo!

[White trash]

Leave that till you have won at the nationals... And by then, you will know damn well that being on the podium in NZ still puts you at a level to run mid pack in aussie, and that is a nice level to not even qualify for international events.

To race at the front on an international level. Dude, if you can do it, then do it, but FFS, keep your mouth shut about your own abilities, let otheres do your braggin for you, works better, and feels better.

If you can beat scratcha on the track, great, then try beat Kwaka Kid, Keystone, HDT boy, if you can great. Try then to beat Vtec, Me, 2 smoker, Cowpoos, Nicko, Shaun, Jayracer, and Samsmith. If you can do that, then you have something to be proud of, but you probably won't be flying your own kite by that stage.
Then once you've given all those homos a hiding, you get a shot at my title :lol:

[Drew]

Then once you've given all those homos a hiding, you get a shot at my title :lol:That be the fourth place title at the hill climb then?

[boomer]

funnyt how envious people always say that...lol...stir stir stir!!

Poo's... Enigmas teh fukin worst for it mate.. hes like a bloody spider monkey.. even on the straights !


Riding without tread around me...unhealthy decision.

all I'm hearing is.. "I'm a dirty Slut... and you should wear a rubber!"




ahahaha :p @ all you do gooders saying how bad it is and :p at all the bravado and testosterone... i'll learn all you mofo's.. knee down or up! :scooter:

[Drew]

ahahaha :p @ all you do gooders saying how bad it is and :p at all the bravado and testosterone... i'll learn all you mofo's.. knee down or up! :scooter:

Ummmmm, didn't you get smoked by TWO chicks at the track day last month?:innocent:

[boomer]

two chicks sliding past me on theer lovely behinds does not count as being schooled.. not even in Dovers books:crazy:

[moT]

Wow this thread is still going!

[Drew]

Wow this thread is still going!

No, you've posted in a non existant thread, in a forum that aint there, yes it's still fuckin going.

[White trash]

That be the fourth place title at the hill climb then?
Bring that dirty old coal burner of yours to Manfeild on the 16th sonny. See what's what then :D

[mark247]

at all the bravado and testosterone

Well if i didnt have testosterone i think there would be a huge problem, i am a male and all...

But in saying that, I am the greatest ever at everything.

[MidnightMike]

If I got me knee down I would ruin my pants! (inside and out) Fok that shit. I can't afrord new pants. I hang off the opposite side of the bike just to be different.

Though you do a pretty good tom impersonation. :dodge:

[Drew]

Bring that dirty old coal burner of yours to Manfeild on the 16th sonny. See what's what then :D

Make you a deal, if I can get within four seconds of your best qualifying lap, with me on the fizzer, we'll swap bikes for the rest of the day.

[saltydog]

there are some corners where u can get ur knee down and not speed remember u dont hve to ride to the recomended speed limit around corners and its a fun way of passing the time on a long trip

I reckon there is a formula for recommended speed around corners. Recommended speed x 2 + 10km/h. So a nice 60 is safely negoiated at 130...... as long as you take the right line and you dont exceed the speed limit of course.

[Drew]

I reckon there is a formula for recommended speed around corners. Recommended speed x 2 + 10km/h. So a nice 60 is safely negoiated at 130...... as long as you take the right line and you dont exceed the speed limit of course.

I think trying to ride to a rule like that, will get you in a lot of trouble.

[saltydog]

I think trying to ride to a rule like that, will get you in a lot of trouble.

Sorry Drew, but after 25 years riding I'm still here with an unblemished record. That includes crashes and de-merit points. So what if I can go around corners that fast........ thats one of the reasons we ride bikes isnt it? :scooter:

[Drew]

Sorry Drew, but after 25 years riding I'm still here with an unblemished record. That includes crashes and de-merit points. So what if I can go around corners that fast........ thats one of the reasons we ride bikes isnt it? :scooter:

I'm not saying dont do it, totally your choice, but others with a lesser skill level, and bike might get well into shit. There are several corners around that I certainly wouldn't go round, with the formula you use, and I'm no novice myself.

[rwh]

I reckon there is a formula for recommended speed around corners. Recommended speed x 2 + 10km/h. So a nice 60 is safely negoiated at 130...... as long as you take the right line and you dont exceed the speed limit of course.

Are you saying you can get round at that speed under normal circumstances, or you that can be doing that speed and then stop when you find the road's blocked immediately on the other side?

Richard

[kickingzebra]

everyone is a hero.
He can probably do it on the back wheel and still stop, with a magnificent perfectly executed 11:45 stoppy, on loose gravel, in the wet with a herd of cows baying at his heels.

[cowpoos]

everyone is a hero.
He can probably do it on the back wheel and still stop, with a magnificent perfectly executed 11:45 stoppy, on loose gravel, in the wet with a herd of cows baying at his heels.
you must be talking about crasherfromwaybacks mate kerry dukie!!

[Tim 39]

everyone is a hero.
He can probably do it on the back wheel and still stop, with a magnificent perfectly executed 11:45 stoppy, on loose gravel, in the wet with a herd of cows baying at his heels.

well said!!

[Patrick]

have only just read this original thread and the Letter to Tom attachment mentioned earlier...

That Letter to Tom.. What an absolute pearler!! If it isn't compulsory reading for all bikers, not just the newbies, then fark me...

Gotta spread more love before praising the Pritch again....

[mark247]

Letter was a good read, but was way to over the top for what was really the case. Cracks me up how seriously some people take the internet!

But besides that, it was a good read.