SV650 race mods

[Darkman]

I just bought a K6 Sv650 to modify as a race bike. I heard that all sorts of things can be done to improve them..like gixxer front forks for example. Is that a must to get good handeling and where can I get a set. What rear suspention do you guys put on it. I also heard that Shaun can turn it to a race bike no sweat..Is that expensive to do.Do you guys who have them, put steering dampers on?
appreciate any advice and some pics if you have any.
also: what tires do you run?

[bistard]

You should look at suspension first,a pipe & of course you will need some tyre warmers,so let me know,as I can supply you off the shelf!!

[Darkman]

You should look at suspension first,a pipe & of course you will need some tyre warmers,so let me know,as I can supply you off the shelf!!

what sort of front suspention though? Do I just change the internals or do i need full Ohlins, or can I buy like gixxer fronts forks/

[bistard]

Go for Ohlins rear & speak to Robert taylor re mods to the front end,his phone number is 062784160,he is the man!!
let me know about tyre warmers!!
I now see the plot unfolding,as to why you have the GSXR400 up for sale,without even riding it

[Darkman]

Go for Ohlins rear & speak to Robert taylor re mods to the front end,his phone number is 062784160,he is the man!!
let me know about tyre warmers!!
I now see the plot unfolding,as to why you have the GSXR400 up for sale,without even riding it

yeah..rather sell the 400 and spend it on the Sv i Think. I was going to race the 400 but the SV was just too good of a deal to pass up on.Plus i need a new challenge..

[bistard]

yeah..rather sell the 400 and spend it on the Sv i Think. I was going to race the 400 but the SV was just too good of a deal to pass up on.Plus i need a new challenge..

Well,I had a worrying thought that you had given up before even turning a wheel & producing a fantastic 400,but thats all good,see you at the track!!

[Clivoris]

Good score Darkman. If it was me though I'd hold off on the mods unless you are desperate to race it this year. MNZ are probably introducing a ProTwins (650 twins of any configuration) class that will be an attempt to keep racing affordable and provide a step between StreetStock and SuperSport. I can't remember the details for sure but I think that the limited mods allowed are end-can, air filter, power-commander, rear suspension and front suspension internals. Probably fairings too. There should be info on their website. Somebody more onto it might be able to hook us up with more info.

[Darkman]

Good score Darkman. If it was me though I'd hold off on the mods unless you are desperate to race it this year. MNZ are probably introducing a ProTwins (650 twins of any configuration) class that will be an attempt to keep racing affordable and provide a step between StreetStock and SuperSport. I can't remember the details for sure but I think that the limited mods allowed are end-can, air filter, power-commander, rear suspension and front suspension internals. Probably fairings too. There should be info on their website. Somebody more onto it might be able to hook us up with more info.

sweet..better get more info then cause i wanted to start on the front.

[skelstar]

Hmmm...maybe you should do a couple of meetings first dude? I remember you saying that you're not too fussed with kicking arse for a wee bit, just wanted to get used to the bike etc. Having a yarn to the F3 guys on the day might be a good idea before diving into your forks now?

[Darkman]

Hmmm...maybe you should do a couple of meetings first dude? I remember you saying that you're not too fussed with kicking arse for a wee bit, just wanted to get used to the bike etc. Having a yarn to the F3 guys on the day might be a good idea before diving into your forks now?

yeah i know..but want to do something..I like playing with spanners and stuff..especially screwdrivers. Has the forks got any screws on them?

[skelstar]

You've missed your calling I think DM. You should build a cabinet.

[Darkman]

You've missed your calling I think DM. You should build a cabinet.

tell me about it. I just build a kitchen at some place...oohh how great it felt! I even got to use a battery drill....mmmmmm, wonder if i could use that on the SV?

[koba]

aww man!
I was looking foward to seeing you out there on that 400!

Did you see the qualifiying times for f3 at taupo!
I was interested to see how the front 5 or so bikes on the grid were 650s.
Deano was the first 400 (I think) and he seems to ride the nuts off it...

Are you gunna whack some crashbungs on and just start off racing it mainly unmodified?

You may get a better idea of what needs to be done for your particular style of riding then, even if you only take it to a few test days.

Wouldn't listen to hard to anything I say tho... I really have no idea what i'm talking about!

Its going to at least sound better than a 400!

[Darkman]

aww man!



Are you gunna whack some crashbungs on and just start off racing it mainly unmodified?

!

I think oggy knobs is a definite must for me!

[MadDuck]

Paint colour has a huge impact too DM :bye:

[Keystone19]

Paint colour has a huge impact too DM :bye:

Yes, certain colour schemes require additional protective modifications and speed enhancers to be included at the time of painting. PM me for further details....


p/t

PMd you some stuff anyways Andries

[Darkman]

PMd you some stuff anyways Andries

Cheers for that..very helpful.

[Clivoris]

No reason why you can't have a bash on the SV with minimal mods and wait and see how ProTwins work out. It sounds like a pretty exciting class and should be a pretty level playing field in theory. Noobs like me might find qualifying for F3 challenging this year. Looks like we are going to have big fields with only 35 getting to race.

[VasalineWarrior]

I think oggy knobs is a definite must for me!

Just rip all the road stuff off it and give it a good caning at the next round. Not much point modding it unless it develops a fault in some area, and you wont know that till its had a good hiding.

Sides, the old hyosung needs a chance

[codgyoleracer]

Hey DM, the list of mods goes on & on & on, but 1st decision will be to go pro-twins or build a full F3 spec. If just starting out pro-twins makes sense - as in theory it should be more affordable.
Yes the front end mod does improve the handling & stopping abilities, Ive seen them fitted with Honda front ends, R1 front ends & more commonly Gixxer front ends (both radial & non radial ) brake type. The suzuki stuff is typically more interchangable. The SV makes enough power to be competitve in F3 - so time is best spent on suspension in the first instance, track time in the 2nd instance & tyres in the third instance, - or the other way around.
Engine mods do work - but utilisation of them & turning them into a faster lap time is somewhat more difficult - but does come with time.
Re the steering damper , my SV runs the damper that came with the Gixxer front end , however if you run the Pirelli or Metzeler tyres the stabilty is very very good anyway & a damper requirement is less urgent.
Good Luck, GlenW

[GSVR]

I'd fit some Oggy knobs, a Scorpion racecan and a Powercommander to begin. Infact some guy has all those for sale in the online trading forum at the moment.

Also you will need to get the fork internals drilled and cartridge emulators fitted if your keeping the STD forks. An Ohlins rear shock and fork springs set to your weight. And fairings. And axle stands. Axle bobbins.
But the most important parts on your bike are the 2 tyres plus tyre warmers so they are actually at operating temp when you race.

I'm sure I've forgot a whole lot of other stuff like wets if you have a second set of rims otherwise it makes more sense to run DOT approved tyres.

While alot of this isn't mods it what you will need to go racing semi seriously.

Edit. 520 chain conversion and a selection of front sprockets will make you go faster unless your racing at the same track all the time.

[Darkman]

I'd fit some Oggy knobs, a Scorpion racecan and a Powercommander to begin. Infact some guy has all those for sale in the online trading forum at the moment.



cheers mate..saw that. i just want to sell one bike first before i buy too many things for the SV.if I sell the gixxer tomorrow i'll take the stuff off you. if the gixxer dont sell then i'll sell the SV cause i see no point in having two race bikes.

[Possum41]

Just rip all the road stuff off it and give it a good caning at the next round. Not much point modding it unless it develops a fault in some area, and you wont know that till its had a good hiding.

Sides, the old hyosung needs a chance

Come on its not the old hyosungs fault mine got me to 3rd in quals at taupo and 3rd in F2 race 1.:third:
DM don't waste your time with an SV, sell it and get a hyosung they are heaps faster!!!!!!
I'll sell you all the bits you need as well as new fairings and then you can be fast straight away

[Keystone19]

DM don't waste your time with an SV, sell it and get a hyosung they are heaps faster!!!!!!...you can be fast straight away

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

[GSVR]

cheers mate..saw that. i just want to sell one bike first before i buy too many things for the SV.if I sell the gixxer tomorrow i'll take the stuff off you. if the gixxer dont sell then i'll sell the SV cause i see no point in having two race bikes.

Seems like your in a similar situation to me. If I was to sell my SV I'd probably be keeping the stuff. But I'm actually beginning to think I'd be better off keeping the SV and building up a very powerful motor for it. Or perhaps transplanting Hyosung motor into it (right Possum) or at least the airbox off one.

[Sidewinder]

Yes, certain colour schemes require additional protective modifications and speed enhancers to be included at the time of painting. PM me for further details....


p/t

PMd you some stuff anyways Andries

is dropping your bike a good way to get a better color or is it the only way to stop Quasi from beating you?

[Keystone19]

is dropping your bike a good way to get a better color or is it the only way to stop Quasi from beating you?

Worked pretty well didn't it...funny enough he was two bikes behind me when I hit the deck. Lucky for me he neither hit me nor did I hit him.

[johnsv650]

whats quicker the sv or hyosung? jill ?

[Keystone19]

whats quicker the sv or hyosung? jill ?


Good question. I've not ridden a Hyosung but I believe they are heavier than the stock SV but have better stock suspension.

Ultimately though, it's the rider that's quicker...

[Shaun]

whats quicker the sv or hyosung? jill ?

SV, by a huge amount

[johnsv650]

why would that be shaun ?

[Tim 39]

I'm of the opinion (probably a load of poo but oh well) that the SV's are a more well developed and thought out bike, I dont know much about the Hyosungs but I remember Geoff Cain's comments about his one time, something along the lines of I dislike this motorbike sometimes... in a slightly less polite manner

[Terminated]

DM I ordered in sliders from USA arrived within a week:

http://stores.ebay.com/SV650-Racing-Parts

Shipping cost for both frame and swingarm packaged together $30 USD.

[Darkman]

anyone know what upside down forks will fit on the a SV650s K6 without too much modification needed. Does the ones of the older gsxr600's fit ?

[Keystone19]

I have a 04/05 GSXR600 front end on my 03 SV650. I can tell you that the front end of the SV has not changed since 03, however the gsxr front end may have. Shaun will know.

[Darkman]

Just spoke to robert tailor and he said that he can do the internals for $800 bucks..wonder if that would be worth doing, or would the gixxer front end be better..i suppose you have better brakes with the gixxer font end on hey?
does the 04 gixxer front end fit on without major issues?

[skelstar]

You need to visit a SV forum mate. They're will be heaps of people there that know what they are doing and don't mind if your bike is faster than their F3 bike ;)

[The Stranger]

I have a 04/05 GSXR600 front end on my 03 SV650. I can tell you that the front end of the SV has not changed since 03, however the gsxr front end may have. Shaun will know.

Why not use a Cagiva Raptor instead of buying a SV650 and modifying it to hell?

[JayRacer37]

Just spoke to robert tailor and he said that he can do the internals for $800 bucks..wonder if that would be worth doing, or would the gixxer front end be better..i suppose you have better brakes with the gixxer font end on hey?
does the 04 gixxer front end fit on without major issues?

You will have better Brakes and Better suspension with the GSXR front end BUT you won't be eligible for Pro-Twins, should the class eventuate. Also the stock forks modified can do the trick good enough, Jason Nairn finished very well at Puke on the stock fork externals.

Honestly Andreas, you would be better off holding off on the mods other than things like tyres, warmers, filter and shock (Robert is the shock man, this part will be eligible in a pro-twins class and makes a HUGE diffrence) until 1) you have some more time on the bike, on track, and get a feel for it as it is now, and 2) until you decide Pro-Twins or F3 for sure.

[Darkman]

Why not use a Cagiva Raptor instead of buying a SV650 and modifying it to hell?

mmm..yeah..could do..have you got one?

[Darkman]

Honestly Andreas, you would be better off holding off on the mods other than things like tyres, warmers, filter and shock (Robert is the shock man, this part will be eligible in a pro-twins class and makes a HUGE diffrence) until 1) you have some more time on the bike, on track, and get a feel for it as it is now, and 2) until you decide Pro-Twins or F3 for sure.

what tyres do you think..can i just use racetecs. Yeah..spoke to robert and he said he can give me a rear adjustable shock for $1400 that apparently works well on the bike. also getting an ohlins steering damper of him for my r1 so will try to fit the one off the R1 on the SV...yeah, and think i'll just go for the internals.

[JayRacer37]

what tyres do you think..can i just use racetecs. Yeah..spoke to robert and he said he can give me a rear adjustable shock for $1400 that apparently works well on the bike. also getting an ohlins steering damper of him for my r1 so will try to fit the one off the R1 on the SV...yeah, and think i'll just go for the internals.

There is pretty good variation on tyres now. Metz/Prelli, and now Conti have a RaceAttack 160 rear designed specifically for the SV class they are running in germany. To match the 120/70 front.

[Darkman]

There is pretty good variation on tyres now. Metz/Prelli, and now Conti have a RaceAttack 160 rear designed specifically for the SV class they are running in germany. To match the 120/70 front.

cant get raceattack till the end og august, and metzeller dont make racetecs in a 160...so what is left..diablo super corsa? ar they good?

[GSVR]

cant get raceattack till the end og august, and metzeller dont make racetecs in a 160...so what is left..diablo super corsa? ar they good?

They are all good just put anything on. Or go to the racetrack and see what others use. A good rider can go fast on any of the currently available racetyres with possibly the exception being Shinkos.

[Darkman]

They are all good just put anything on. Or go to the racetrack and see what others use. A good rider can go fast on any of the currently available racetyres with possibly the exception being Shinkos.

what available racetyres though...i just want to get something today, and cant seem to find anything...no racetecs, not raceattacks..only the normal road tires like sporteck or sport attacks.

[GSVR]

what available racetyres though...i just want to get something today, and cant seem to find anything...no racetecs, not raceattacks..only the normal road tires like sporteck or sport attacks.

Why the rush thought you couldn't race until August. Generally you can get whatever you want overnight. What is your first choice of tyre. Then do you know what the most popular compounds are for people running SVs. If you buy something to soft for the back it wont last. Fronts last for ages so you can go for the softest compound on there.

[Darkman]

Why the rush thought you couldn't race until August. Generally you can get whatever you want overnight. What is your first choice of tyre. Then do you know what the most popular compounds are for people running SVs. If you buy something to soft for the back it wont last. Fronts last for ages so you can go for the softest compound on there.

i have no idea on what should go on a Sv ;thats the point of the tread, trying to get as much info as i can. yeah wont be racing until july/august maybe, but want to fit the tires so i can get a feel for the bike and the tires .

[Possum41]

Ultimately though, it's the rider that's quicker...

Good answer Glen Williams is untouchable on his SV and garry said Glens bike is not that good to ride so it does come down to the rider.
DM don't waste your money trying to get a bike to go fast just spend your money on time riding the bike at track days, then start developing the bike.
My offer still stands, i'll build you a hyosung that'll be faster and it will still be cheaper than an SV!!!!

[GSVR]

i have no idea on what should go on a Sv ;thats the point of the tread, trying to get as much info as i can. yeah wont be racing until july/august maybe, but want to fit the tires so i can get a feel for the bike and the tires .

Getting along to as many trackdays as possible is your best option. With the weather the way it is I'd be tempted to go for a good road tyre. Pilot Powers are cheap and they last a long time even on the track. I get the impression Racetecs and Supercorsa's aren't as good in the wet judging by what I seen on wet rides.

Ride the bike in Clubmans. First meeting I did on my bog stock SV I rode it to the track.

[Possum41]

I get the impression Racetecs and Supercorsa's aren't as good in the wet judging by what I seen on wet rides.

I have supercorsa's on my Hyosung and i think they stick like shit to a blanket. I get them for $585 fitted per set so i'm not to sure how that compares to other brands.
Rnd 1 at Taupo was slippery according to everyone else but i had no probs and finished 3rd in F2, so they must be doing the bizo.
But like Garry said just do a few track days and you'll come to find out for youeself what works and what doesn't.

[Tim 39]

Anthony runs Metzeler rennsports on his SV and likes them, but hes got wets also though. if you're looking for a tyre for wet and dry it will always be a compromise

[Darkman]

I have supercorsa's on my Hyosung and i think they stick like shit to a blanket. I get them for $585 fitted per set so i'm not to sure how that compares to other brands.
.


mmm..i asked for supercorsa's today and was told they don't make them in a 160/60 rear..what does the hyosung have at the rear? So have decided to just go with metzeller sportec M3s for now.

[Keystone19]

mmm..i asked for supercorsa's today and was told they don't make them in a 160/60 rear..what does the hyosung have at the rear? So have decided to just go with metzeller sportec M3s for now.

Good choice. I ran pilot powers (similar tyre) last year through winter. Was a good platform for the colder, wetter tracks.

[GSVR]

mmm..i asked for supercorsa's today and was told they don't make them in a 160/60 rear..what does the hyosung have at the rear? So have decided to just go with metzeller sportec M3s for now.

Sounds like your not going to the right bike shop Darkman. They may have tolf you that they don't make a 120/60 front but not many run 60 profile fronts anyway. 160/60 is the size supercorsa's are for the SV and they are easy as to get.

BTW I just brought a set of Pilot Powers today from Turnbulls for $485 and thats the normal price fitted to anyone. Will be running them at Manfield as I think they will work great in these conditions ie a cold damp day.

[GSVR]

Oh another thing with Supercorsa'a there are the cheaper Supercorsa street tyres that come in one compound and there are the proper race tyres called Supercorsa Pros in compounds of 0, 1, and 2. 0's are good for the front and 2's for the back. 1's on the back wear out pretty quick and rip up badly.

[FROSTY]

My advice for a newbee racer
1) tyres --I run a rennie 160/60/17 med compound rear and a racetec front or Pirelli slicks front and rear, Ive only had grip issues where it was the track not the tyres .I agree with KS and garry H -re the michelins though--iffn ya gonna race in winter --so theres 3 options
2)first "mod"--buy the crash bungs off gary H and if you can fit a set of swingarm bungs
3)Haul the front end out and send to rob taylor. Get the oil/spring emmulator job done on them -it'll cost about $600 but will be the single biggest "performance" enhancement you will need to start with.You WILL NOT need usd forks for a lil while even if you go the full on F3 route --and even if ya do -you will have a ready market for your old tele's
4)Rear shock--start on the factory shock and buy a decent shock as soon as you can afford it -- going the gixxer 600 shock route really is false economy.
5)Exhaust--I reccomend a FULL M4 system but to be honest to startout with I think just don't bother.
6) other stuff people forget--Buy 2 spare brake and clutch levers and a spare gear shifter.Work out what pegs will fit your bike from the wreckers-or maybee those alloy accessory pegs. -If you're real keen a set of aftermarket bars

From there on The skys the limit mods wise--I know for a FACT I could have a 90hp beast with a 180 rear/slipper clutch etc etc -but WHY??

MOST IMPORTANT --Do the stuff I've suggested-NO MORE
Use the money you've saved to go to as many track days as you posssibly can ---that will give you by far the greatest gains in "performance" you can ask for

[Darkman]

My advice for a newbee racer
1) tyres --I run a rennie 160/60/17 med compound rear and a racetec front or Pirelli slicks front and rear, Ive only had grip issues where it was the track not the tyres .I agree with KS and garry H -re the michelins though--iffn ya gonna race in winter --so theres 3 options
2)first "mod"--buy the crash bungs off gary H and if you can fit a set of swingarm bungs
3)Haul the front end out and send to rob taylor. Get the oil/spring emmulator job done on them -it'll cost about $600 but will be the single biggest "performance" enhancement you will need to start with.You WILL NOT need usd forks for a lil while even if you go the full on F3 route --and even if ya do -you will have a ready market for your old tele's
4)Rear shock--start on the factory shock and buy a decent shock as soon as you can afford it -- going the gixxer 600 shock route really is false economy.
5)Exhaust--I reccomend a FULL M4 system but to be honest to startout with I think just don't bother.
6) other stuff people forget--Buy 2 spare brake and clutch levers and a spare gear shifter.Work out what pegs will fit your bike from the wreckers-or maybee those alloy accessory pegs. -If you're real keen a set of aftermarket bars

From there on The skys the limit mods wise--I know for a FACT I could have a 90hp beast with a 180 rear/slipper clutch etc etc -but WHY??

MOST IMPORTANT --Do the stuff I've suggested-NO MORE
Use the money you've saved to go to as many track days as you posssibly can ---that will give you by far the greatest gains in "performance" you can ask for


sweet.....yip, getting shortie levers fitted(on the way)..got tires ordered(not slicks though, but Sportec M3s), The front forks will be taken up to Robert on the 16th when he is at manfield($800 he quoted me), will get adjustable ohlins rear and steering damper of him too...not doing the exhaust yet..(thats just a power thing..there is enough there for the moment)..yip, will get some crash protectors and need new rear brake lever..getting new brakelines fitted with new pads...so really all thats left is to get fairings i think and time to do it all.

cheers everyone..got heeps of info of ya..now just got to go and do it!!!!

[AllanB]

jump on the interwebb thingy and check out some american sites - they have been racing SV650's for years and there are heaps of bits available - also our dollars is good! Plus parts etc on e-bay will be worth a look.

[Pussy]

jump on the interwebb thingy and check out some american sites - they have been racing SV650's for years and there are heaps of bits available - also our dollars is good! Plus parts etc on e-bay will be worth a look.

Yep, that's all fine and dandy.....if you don't want an ounce of support. Robert has done the suspension on two SV650s for my wife( a K1 and a K5). He took into account Annie's riding style/requirements, and NZ road conditions, and set the forks up accordingly. Ditto for the Ohlins shocks that Annie had on both her bikes(both shocks custom built). He traded the K1 shock on the K5 shock..... get ebay to do that! I bought a set of AK20 cartridges for my K4 1000 from Robert( before he had his suspension dyno). The rebound damping stack was allegedly set up perfect from Traxxion Dynamics....yeah right.I found in a very short time that the high speed rebound was dangerously fast. A phone call to Hawera, an explanation of the fault, and the next thing I knew Robert sorted the problem.
My best advice is to deal with the guy who is setting everything up for local conditions, actually listens to your concerns, and will solve any short comings.
I would like to stress that I aint no expert rider, but I do enjoy the security of properly performing suspension. We have done mods on the suspension to every bike we have had over the last few years, and have found RT to be helpful eg. trading shocks/components from one bike to upgrade to the next.
I've spent FAR too much money on it! Bikes have felt good though.
You don't have to say I sent you, I don't need the brownie points

[Darkman]

You don't have to say I sent you, I don't need the brownie points

Thank goodness...might sound a bit weird if i told him "Pussy " sent me..
but yeah, I only spoke to him on the phone and he was very helpfull, sent me emails with pics and info while on the phone. i also enquired about front ohlins for my R1..the guy contacted stockholm and got back to me within the hour...that sort of service is hard to find in NZ!!

[Clivoris]

i also enquired about front ohlins for my R1..the guy contacted stockholm and got back to me within the hour...that sort of service is hard to find in NZ!!

That doesn't sound like a man who is planning on buying a Thuper Duke.

[FROSTY]

Yep, that's all fine and dandy.....if you don't want an ounce of support.
think you're missing the point there dude-NO question RT is GOD in NZ for suspension--but a motorbike is more than just shocks.
The yanks have years of experience with ALL aspects of SV racing.

Ohh and darkman--try www.jhsraceing.co.uk (http://www.jhsraceing.co.uk) --they have been building race SV's for a living for a few years now

[Darkman]

That doesn't sound like a man who is planning on buying a Thuper Duke.

I have always liked the look of the Sp version so just thought i ask the guy while i was on the pHone with him...

[Pussy]

If I recall correctly, RT has a bit of experience on all aspects of SV racing, too. Bruce Hansen's bike was predominantly set up at the then Hawera Motorcycles, mostly by RT

[Darkman]

Ohh and darkman--try www.jhsraceing.co.uk (http://www.jhsraceing.co.uk) --they have been building race SV's for a living for a few years now

you sure thats the right link..can't get it to work?

[FROSTY]

go to http//www.sv650.org ---youll finda bunch of links there

[Darkman]

mmmmmmm..i just thought i'd better ask again. Does the 70 profile front tire fit with the standard fender? was told that it does, but bike shop reckons it might be too tight(i just measured it and told them over the phone..they havent seen it yet)

[Darkman]

And another question....(race fairings for the Sv..i c that justfairings dont make them...can get some from the UK for about $1K1, but sound a bit deer to me).......what fairings do u use?

[GSVR]

Rather than ask all these questions here write them down and ask a few riders on Saturday. Your right JustFairings don't make anything but a guy who will be at the meeting who makes fairings for the SV should be there. If not you will be able to see heaps of bikes with fairings he made.Search SV650 on Trademe.

70 profile fits under the 1999-2003 SV with enough room for tyrewarmers.
If your plastics are good I'd remove the lot as they are worth alot of money and you may want to return your bike to the road after your've crashed it a few times. And don't say you won't crash as you will especially while your learning. It may not even be your fault but it will happen.

A fibreglass mudguard will have even more clearance.

Check out Sam Loves bike aparently the Ohlins shock on it is worth $3000. Could just be a rumour but he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Performance/auction-103283454.htm?p=14

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Frames-bodywork/auction-103283648.htm?p=15

[Keystone19]

And another question....(race fairings for the Sv..i c that justfairings dont make them...can get some from the UK for about $1K1, but sound a bit deer to me).......what fairings do u use?

Billy from ACR Fibreglass is the man you are after. He does fairings for SVs as well as front and rear subframes. His number is 07 5746747. He'll be at Manfeild next week so you can have a chat with him then.

[Pussy]

"A fibreglass mudguard will have even more clearance."

"Check out Sam Loves bike aparently the Ohlins shock on it is worth $3000. Could just be a rumour but he'll correct me if I'm wrong."

Thats an unsubstantiated rumour regarding the price of the shock! I'm pretty sure the only "$3000.00" shock that Robert has fitted was the one off you beaut shock that Craig Shirriffs tested for Robert before the TTX36 shocks became available (which incidently look VERY nice, apparently perform even better, ask Sam Smith), I read an article in Kiwi Rider about it.
The Ohlins SV650 shock retails brand new for about $1400.00, which is quite easy to find out, just involved a phone call to Hawera.
When we got the shock for our K5 650, we found that Suzuki in all their wisdom had moved the battery holder, and this interfered with the shock reservoir.....no problem, Robert advised Ohlins, and had a different cylinder head for the shock sent out from Sweden....sorted!
I would advise calling Robert and talking to him direct, and bypassing some of the "experts", some of whom would not know the difference between shit and putty until their windows fell out.
The SV1000 and SV650 use the same front guard, so clearance shouldn't be a problem

[GSVR]

"A fibreglass mudguard will have even more clearance."

"Check out Sam Loves bike aparently the Ohlins shock on it is worth $3000. Could just be a rumour but he'll correct me if I'm wrong."

Thats an unsubstantiated rumour regarding the price of the shock! I'm pretty sure the only "$3000.00" shock that Robert has fitted was the one off you beaut shock that Craig Shirriffs tested for Robert before the TTX36 shocks became available (which incidently look VERY nice, apparently perform even better, ask Sam Smith), I read an article in Kiwi Biker about it.
The Ohlins SV650 shock retails brand new for about $1400.00, which is quite easy to find out, just involved a phone call to Hawera.
When we got the shock for our K5 650, we found that Suzuki in all their wisdom had moved the battery holder, and this interfered with the shock reservoir.....no problem, Robert advised Ohlins, and had a different cylinder head for the shock sent out from Sweden....sorted!
I would advise calling Robert and talking to him direct, and bypassing some of the "experts", some of whom would not know the difference between shit and putty until their windows fell out.
The SV1000 and SV650 use the same front guard, so clearance shouldn't be a problem

If you read the thread you'll know Darkman has already rung Robert and is already getting an Ohlins shock for $1400 bucks and his forks kitted for $800.

So the SV1000 runs a 70 profile tyre but are you sure the guards are the same as the forks certainly aren't the same size. When I run 70 tyres on the road it can be an issue as stones for new seal can get caught between the guard and tyre.

A fibreglass guard most certainly will have more clearance becuase the guard it was moulded off is about 3-4mm thick and good fibreglassing is under 2mm. And you can also drill the holes off the original centers.

By bypassing some of the experts I assume you talking about me. I never claimed to be an expert and just passing on some of what I have learn't.


It may be a bit hard to swallow for Darkman if he spends all this money on the bike then goes out and gets thrashed by people like Goblin on almost 20 year old post classic bikes.

Only real advice I have is to get on the track as often as you can an ride. You can't learn any other way and the biggest gains in speed are made by the rider not the bike.

[Pussy]

The front guards are the same, and you are correct in the difference of the forks.
Nope, not a dig at you, Garry. A generalisation, perhaps.The point I'm trying to make is the information is available directly from the horse's mouth, only a phone call away. I wouldn't like to see someone put off decent suspension by a perception that it will cost moonbeams(eg.. the TTX36 shocks are well under three grand, approx 2500, and these are top of the line) No need to go offshore, when we are lucky enough to have our own competitively priced products here, with the technical knowledge and support that Robert provides
My .02c worth

[GSVR]

Ohlins is the best suspension money can buy and Robert Taylor is the man in New Zealand for providing the service and technical knowhow. Sounds like I'm stating the obvious here but just wanted to put my opionion across as plainly as a could.

Buy a SV do some trackdays. Decide what mods you want to do and whats legal for your class and go racing. Most of all enjoy it. If your not enjoying it then perhaps racing isn't for you.

[Pussy]

I reckon the bare minimum to do is the forks. The stock set up is good for conservative riding on smooth pavement. We had the emulators/damper rod mod/springs/oil done to Annie's K5, and it transformed the reasonably budget stock setup to a great performing set of forks. Very worthwhile, even for a road bike

[Tim 39]

I reckon the bare minimum to do is the forks. The stock set up is good for conservative riding on smooth pavement. We had the emulators/damper rod mod/springs/oil done to Annie's K5, and it transformed the reasonably budget stock setup to a great performing set of forks. Very worthwhile, even for a road bike

When I had an NSR 250 I put emulators etc in it and it made a huge difference, to my knowledge these work really well in SV's. Cheapest improvement you'll make to the suspension, theyre around about $300 I think for the set

[Pussy]

When I had an NSR 250 I put emulators etc in it and it made a huge difference, to my knowledge these work really well in SV's. Cheapest improvement you'll make to the suspension, theyre around about $300 I think for the set
Yep, Robert set the preload on the emulators to suit what Annie wanted, and chose the correct spring rate for her. On the odd occasion that I got permission to ride the SV, I found even with my extra bulk (gravitationally challenged!) that the damping felt great, feedback from the front very precise, and generally very confidence inspiring. It never felt out of sorts after the mods. Brian Bernard took Annie's K1 for several quick circuits of Manfeild in 2004, and reckoned it felt great.

[evol mas]

hi i wish my shock was worth 3 grand lol it was $1400 from rt i recently brought a k7sv650 nd so far hav spent thousands on it but another idea is race tech ?? i sent my forks 2 them and they did the internals for me with ebitch components because aparently they have a beter spring. nothing against robert taylor (sure he may be the shock guru and all) bt i spent half an hour waitig for him to c to me at the last round ov vic club nd then he told me he would come see me later !! wich never happened !!now when i spend $1400 on a shock i wuld expect a littel after sales service!!

[GSVR]

hi i wish my shock was worth 3 grand lol it was $1400 from rt i recently brought a k7sv650 nd so far hav spent thousands on it but another idea is race tech ?? i sent my forks 2 them and they did the internals for me with ebitch components because aparently they have a beter spring. nothing against robert taylor (sure he may be the shock guru and all) bt i spent half an hour waiting for him to c to me at the last round ov vic club nd then he told me he would come see me later !! wich never happened !!now when i spend $1400 on a shock i wuld expect a littel after sales service!!

Cool thanks for correcting that. Even building a competive ProTwin class bike is a big investment. When I heard 3k I sort of thought yeah right but then thought maybe that could have included the cost of the front fork work as well and someone had got it wrong.

Introducing a control tyre might have benefits for this class as well otherwise there will be those with spare rims with wets (more expense) and those without.

All the best with your racing Sam. Would be good to see this class really take off.

[Robert Taylor]

I registered for this forum solely as a means to assist in tidying up any loose ends that Shaun Harris had ongoing before his unfortunate accident. I didnt expect to have to expend valuable time by replying to a criticism that is a little less than well informed, especially as the demeanour was a little akin to judge, jury and executioner. ( I thank a South Island customer for informing me so that I have the chance to defend myself )

I would like to make the following points, in random order;

1) Mr Love did indeed approach me soon after I arrived at Taupo, whilst I was setting up. I explained that I would have a look at his bike a little later, typically my day was going to be very busy with everyone ''in my face'' all at once. Considerably later than his expectation I did go to try and find Mr Love but failed to do so. Maybe I didnt look hard enough and for that I sincerely apologise.

2) But conversely I did note that Mr Love has a set of legs and a voice. It would have been a simple matter for him to come over to remind me. This would have saved the trouble he went to bagging me online, moreover in semi text language which I hate with a vengeance. And the neccessity of my reply.

3) There is only one of me that has taken road race suspension tuning to a much higher overall level in NZ. In fact ''out of the dark ages''. I dont evidence highly skilled road race suspension technicians to hand that will get involved in often very intense race weekends for no remuneration, plus net loss in incurring travel costs, accomodation and incidentals. In the current June issue of Kiwi Rider magazine I wrote a lenghty article on road racing. Within that article I elaborated about there not being armies of well remunerated supension technicians on hand at race meetings in NZ. Whilst many people attend for the love of the sport there are inevitably cold hard commercial cost realities in providing levels of service.

4) Relevant to point 3 above you would pay in excess of $1400 for that shock in Europe. In some of the Scandinavian countries VAT ( GST ) is 25%.And when you got to the track you would only be able to readily access service if you had a pre-paid service contract, over and above the cost of the supension units. If a ''casual customer'' you would pay up front for any service, setting parts, alternate springs etc. But the same service would be placed in queue only after the techs had first fulfilled their service contract obligations.

Contrary to what a number of people may think the dealer margin on these products is very very slender, so is my distributor margin which realistically doesnt truly allow for extra time spent in optimisation for varying tracks / conditions, spring exchange etc.

We all want the same products and bling available to the first world European countries and also want the ''trimmings'' that go with it. But in NZ being a high tax, low wage economy there is a shortage of expendable income. For that reason we are either unable or unwilling to pay for the extras or to allow for an infrastructure that allows ''more feet on the ground''.

4) Subsequently Mr Loves dealer sent me a fax requesting an alternate spring. I promptly despatched 2 options including a pre addressed / pre paid courier bag for the return springs, cutting into my margin but saving the dealer this expense. Two springs were subsequently returned inclusive of the original. It was a little beaten up with paint knocked off, rather prematurely I thought for its age. This sort of thing ''goes with the territory'' but it amazes me how little care many people take to look after things that cost money.

5) The forks went to a very good suspension tech in Auckland who is not actually a Race Tech Dealer. But a Race Tech emulator set was fitted, I knew about this as the tech rang me so I could rattle off all the settings that I have laboriously worked out ( no charge for intellectual property ). Eibach springs ( note the spelling ) are indeed very good but will provide no functional difference to the Traxxion Dynamics springs that I have predominantly used in the past on SV's. I have now largely been using a series of Ohlins Superbike fork springs. These have an extra process whereby they are very highly polished. This reduces friction substanially because springs always rub against the internal walls of the fork sliders, in doing so rubbing off tiny shards of metal, contaminating the oil and damping control mechanisms. Of course you pay a little more for such springs but you only get what you pay for. In a trade like mine it is a choice between doing a cheap, very average job or doing it to a very high standard of quality, performance and longevity.

6) Further to my diatribe above there is one piece of information I did not disclose, we process the damper rods a little differently to the standard Race Tech suggested method. If you do it their way you actually end up with a not inconsiderable amount of the fork travel where the damping is ''dead''. It took a while to work this out and when you expend time in doing so you dont just give away the info.

Nothing is ever what it seems in this world, so much is assumed and all too often people will ''load and fire'' because they are not in full control of the facts, have been misled or have trusted the ''advice'' of others with only enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Demonstrably. I have provided Mr Love with more service than he realises, albeit through slightly indirect channels. As I now understand it the spring rate is sorted and I will follow through with him at Manfield this weekend. I sincerely thank Mr Love for re-igniting my thoughts on a very real problem that exists within this sport.

Road race suspension tuning is a very exacting and demanding science. That has been recognised by MNZ and to that end it was ''semi addressed'' by recently running an all too brief suspension set up module at an MNZ training day in the South Island. Attempts to run one in the North Island failed due to too few subscribers!!!! The course entry fee of $90 or so existed only to cover costs. Go figure......

I pointed out in my recent Kiwi Rider magazine article that it is important for riders to understand suspension set up as much as possible, to keep learning same and that the very top riders are also those who have made effort to do so. It is just not good enough to choose to remain almost totally ignorant of set-up and ask a ( skilled and experienced ) suspension technician to set up the bike. If there is one to hand.....

So in conclusion I invite thoughts of the concept of me being available to do set up schools for road race set up, affiliated with KiwiBiker.......I am happy to lead the proverbial horse to water, as long as the water is also drunk.

[Clivoris]

So in conclusion I invite thoughts of the concept of me being available to do set up schools for road race set up, affiliated with KiwiBiker.......I am happy to lead the proverbial horse to water, as long as the water is also drunk.

Welcome to the forum Dr Taylor. I would certainly be up for paying for some learning about suspension. My only anxiety being that whenever I have tried to read about it in magazines and books, my brain gets jammed in gear. I have a brain that manages most things well, apart from music theory and now, it appears, suspension theory. Would you be able to cater for suspension gimps like myself?

[johnsv650]

robert,
totally understand where your coming from, your the hardest working guy on race days at the nationals and seemingly club days, and yes rightly you spend time with people who promote your product.....and win....
maybe some owners might prefer to "contract" to get your services, as they understand you can get the power to the road.......some spend many dollars on motors and need help getting the power done effectly.
i'm sending you my rods for a pro twin, and i appreciate your help.

[k14]

So in conclusion I invite thoughts of the concept of me being available to do set up schools for road race set up, affiliated with KiwiBiker.......I am happy to lead the proverbial horse to water, as long as the water is also drunk.
I'd be the first to sign up for such a course, $90 is a pittance considering how much you can spend on other "go fast" bits for a bike which can give little gain in comparison. I've seen a suspension setup dvd on the traxxion dynamics website which I am very seriously considering buying. It is the one aspect of riding which is very difficult to learn by yourself without hours and hours of track testing.

Also I very much enjoyed reading your article in the kiwirider magazine, very informative and well thought out. How much is one of those new ohlins shocks for my RS125?? Hehe :Punk:

[evol mas]

sory robert if i was a bit harsh in that text above but i have been riddled with problems building this bike with people not doing there job correctly not saying that you didnt but when i recived that shock i expected it to be correct for my rider weight of 60kgs straight away, wich i was later informed it was a 75 kg spring (correct me if i am wrong),perhaps you were wrongly informed of this. but when seting the shock up that morning at the track found that it only had 4mm of static with the preload wound rite offsag when acording to the ohlins manuel is suposed to be 10 -15mm ?? so i paniced and was dissapointed when you were bizy but hopfuly we have it sorted now thanks to those other springs you sent me i hope this will not tarnish future trading
regards sam

[GSVR]

sory robert if i was a bit harsh in that text above but i have been riddled with problems building this bike with people not doing there job correctly not saying that you didnt but when i recived that shock i expected it to be correct for my rider weight of 60kgs straight away, wich i was later informed it was a 75 kg spring (correct me if i am wrong),perhaps you were wrongly informed of this. but when seting the shock up that morning at the track found that it only had 4mm of static with the preload wound rite offsag when acording to the ohlins manuel is suposed to be 10 -15mm ?? so i paniced and was dissapointed when you were bizy but hopfuly we have it sorted now thanks to those other springs you sent me i hope this will not tarnish future trading
regards sam

Figures I have for static sag without rider is between 0 and 10mm and with rider on bike between 20-25mm. Both Shaun and Robert have set up alot of these bikes now so should have a pretty good idea what works. How much do you weigh suited up?
Dissapointed not to see you at Manfield today. Hows the toncils (sp)?

[evol mas]

well my tonsiles wont be bothering me any more. iv just come off all the drugs so should be fit for the next round at manfeild. the ohlins manuel i recived with the shoch states 10 to 15 mm static sag so not sure there ??
and it felt way to stiff on the few breif laps i rode before it kicked me off as i fell victom to taupo. ps are you entering as a pro twins bike or staying f3 ?

[GSVR]

well my tonsiles wont be bothering me any more. iv just come off all the drugs so should be fit for the next round at manfeild. the ohlins manuel i recived with the shoch states 10 to 15 mm static sag so not sure there ??
and it felt way to stiff on the few breif laps i rode before it kicked me off as i fell victom to taupo. ps are you entering as a pro twins bike or staying f3 ?

I sold my SV at the Suzuki trackday last week but if I get another I will run ProTwin spec (if I can figure out what the rules actually are). Building a Nationals winning F3 bike is alot of money and hard work.

Its a pity Shauns not online like he usually is as he would tell you what setup he would use for your weight. Don't think anythings changed on the bikes suspension since 2003.

[Possum41]

I sold my SV at the Suzuki trackday last week but if I get another I will run ProTwin spec (if I can figure out what the rules actually are). Building a Nationals winning F3 bike is alot of money and hard work.

The new rules are on the MNZ website Garry for the Pro Twins class, under Proposed New Rules/Pro Twins.

I hope you do get another bike and come back racing, just let me know and i'll sort you out with a fast HYOSUNG!!!!!!!

[Robert Taylor]

sory robert if i was a bit harsh in that text above but i have been riddled with problems building this bike with people not doing there job correctly not saying that you didnt but when i recived that shock i expected it to be correct for my rider weight of 60kgs straight away, wich i was later informed it was a 75 kg spring (correct me if i am wrong),perhaps you were wrongly informed of this. but when seting the shock up that morning at the track found that it only had 4mm of static with the preload wound rite offsag when acording to the ohlins manuel is suposed to be 10 -15mm ?? so i paniced and was dissapointed when you were bizy but hopfuly we have it sorted now thanks to those other springs you sent me i hope this will not tarnish future trading
regards sam
No worries whatsoever, sometimes I bark but dont bite. I did look for you at Manfield on Saturday but now know why you didnt make it. Garry H is half right with the sag setting suggestions. On that particular bike I like to see 8 -10mm static sag. ( The Ohlins recommendation is for road use ) During the summer months when there is much more track temperature and grip set it to 25mm rider sag, closer to 20mm will work if you open the throttle earlier and leave it on longer! BUT, at this time of the year there is no track temperature and no grip to be had. Its all about just the right amount of weight transfer to assist off corner grip, when there is little grip to be had ( either through cold temps, rain, greasy track ) you cannot open the throttle as soon. So there is less engine torque to assist the bike to squat / weight transfer a suitable amount.....and therefore keep the tyre ''biting'' into the track surface. That means you have to run a softer setting to get it to squat. I would suggest closer to 30mm at this time of year.

Once again I thank you for reminding me about the very real need to run set up schools and I am currently in conversation with several people about it.

And hey, if you have any immediate questions please ( anybody ) pick up the phone or e-mail me, robert@northwest.co.nz That way you will get a much faster response. While not deriding the concept of forums, there is a neccessity that I give quick, clear and concise answers so I can carry on with the mountain of work always ahead of me! This also alleviates the danger of beleiving less than accurate information that is posted.

[Reckless]

Hey Robert,
You probaly don't remeber me from your karting days. Rick, 125's, My mate Geoff Downs, and I bought a new 250 yamaha off you.

I see your still giving away your time, money (for great fallen racer) and advice freely. Bling posted for you!!:rockon:

[GSVR]

I'd like to thank Robert for posting up this information. I know very little about this subject but when you get good quality information like his things start to make alot more sense.

I think its much better to have questions answered in the forum as if this was told to me at the track or on the phone I would forget it. But here you can print this off or refer back to the thread anytime to refresh what has been said.

Cheers Robert.

[Pussy]

I find it more convenient for both RT and myself to email. I had a question regarding a possible modification to the front end of my 750, spoke to RT on the phone, then emailed. RT has it on his own inbox then. To give you an idea of the backup.... RT replied to my question via email, sent at 4:00am Saturday, as he was getting ready to help you fellas at Manfeild

[Darkman]

question about tires...is it nessesary to balance them for the race bike? I see that some people change tires at the races so obviously don't balance them.

[bistard]

question about tires...is it nessesary to balance them for the race bike? I see that some people change tires at the races so obviously don't balance them.

Yes,they have to be balanced for sure!!
You will find they are balanced at the track,Statically

[k14]

question about tires...is it nessesary to balance them for the race bike? I see that some people change tires at the races so obviously don't balance them.
Well either you weren't looking close enough or the people changing were lazy. Yes it is very important you balance tyres after you change them at the track. It is very easy to do with just a small jig that balances your wheel with the axle through it and you just let the wheel spin so that the heaviest part slowly turns to the bottom and then you progressively put more weight on until it will stay steady without rotating, thus its balanced. :yes: Sometimes it can take 5 mins or so but it is imperative to do. Can cause all sorts of stability problems when racing.

[GSVR]

question about tires...is it nessesary to balance them for the race bike? I see that some people change tires at the races so obviously don't balance them.

We flipped Glens back tyre around at Manfeild on Saturday because it was wearing badly on the right hand side and balanced it before fitting the wheel back on the bike.

You should balance your tyres and it can be as simple as putting a screwdriver though it and finding the heavy side. A proper static balancer would be better. And of course dynamic balancing best of all.

[Darkman]

one more thing...steering dampers..what do you use on yer SV race bike? Spoke to RT and the ohlins top mount are no longer made for this bike. He can however fit a side mount for a reasonable price, my only worry is that if the bike lowsides, it'll be screwed?
Spoke to a guy in the UK that builds the protwin race bikes and he only fits top mount, but the ones that he use is quite pricy.Any ideas? Anyone have a side mounted fitted on their bike?

[FROSTY]

mate --go to www.svrider.com (http://www.svrider.com) have a look in the racing section --I asked exactly this question and theres some responses

[Drew]

Yes,they have to be balanced for sure!!
You will find they are balanced at the track,Statically

I've changed many a tyre at the track, and not balanced them, never had a problem, that's on the thou, changed a tyre for Whitetrash there this weekend, no balancing, and he didn't have a problem either.

It is recomended, but not essential, especially on an SV650, which has a relatively low top speed, and is light enough to cope with a wee shudder no worries.

[Darkman]

and another question yet again...what spocket sizes do you run at manfield on the SV's? Is a 520 conversion needed? well since i'm gonna change the sprockets i might as well.

[Keystone19]

I believe GarryH will be able to answer all your questions in a few days Andries - when he picks up his new toy that he is keeping very quiet about...

For what it's worth, I have done a 520 chain conversion on my SV. Sprocket choice is up to you as the rider and is probably not important until you get some pace on and figure out what will work best for you at each track.

[Possum41]

I believe GarryH will be able to answer all your questions in a few days Andries - when he picks up his new toy that he is keeping very quiet about...

Ahh so you know something jill!!!! what is he getting??? i knew he was up to no good, i bet he's been converted and is getting a new HYOSUNG!!! lol

[GSVR]

and another question yet again...what spocket sizes do you run at manfield on the SV's? Is a 520 conversion needed? well since i'm gonna change the sprockets i might as well.

The standard gearing of 15 - 44 works fine. You can go to 14 to 44 as theres still plenty left in top gear but this although technically sounding better may not be as good.

BTW I dunno where Jill gets her information but theres a huge difference between going to look at a bike and actually buying it. Hope this doesn't sound grumpy.

Anyone know what the Pro Twin rules are yet. Can you fit aftermarket rearsets? Can you fit Manual camchain adjusters? Are you allowed to replace subframes? Can you run non SV rims? The longer MNZ delays the more people are building bikes that wont comply with the rules.

Also on the tyre balancing I seldom balance my tyres because I'm just lazy. Maybe balancing your rim before fitting the tyre would be a compromise. As for fitting the lightest part of the tyre to where the valve stem is it would make more sense to mark the heaviest part of the rim and fit it there I'm thinking.

[Keystone19]

Ahh so you know something jill!!!! what is he getting??? i knew he was up to no good, i bet he's been converted and is getting a new HYOSUNG!!! lol




BTW I dunno where Jill gets her information but theres a huge difference between going to look at a bike and actually buying it. Hope this doesn't sound grumpy.



Ahh..you see, he is being as obtuse as ever...

Never grumpy though Garry...

[codgyoleracer]

Always balance the wheel (especially the front) after fitting a tyre, the gains are worth the effort.:yes:

[Robert Taylor]

The standard gearing of 15 - 44 works fine. You can go to 14 to 44 as theres still plenty left in top gear but this although technically sounding better may not be as good.

BTW I dunno where Jill gets her information but theres a huge difference between going to look at a bike and actually buying it. Hope this doesn't sound grumpy.

Anyone know what the Pro Twin rules are yet. Can you fit aftermarket rearsets? Can you fit Manual camchain adjusters? Are you allowed to replace subframes? Can you run non SV rims? The longer MNZ delays the more people are building bikes that wont comply with the rules.

Also on the tyre balancing I seldom balance my tyres because I'm just lazy. Maybe balancing your rim before fitting the tyre would be a compromise. As for fitting the lightest part of the tyre to where the valve stem is it would make more sense to mark the heaviest part of the rim and fit it there I'm thinking.

Garry,

I totally disagree about not balancing tyres. Unbalanced tyres, no matter how small the imbalance sets up an unwanted oscillation frequency and that is just something further that your dampers have to dampen. While it is difficult to quantify, it will harm lap times, mechanical grip and ultimately yours and everbody elses safety. Severe imbalance will also accelerate the demise of your tyres.

Static balancing is actually quite easy to do as long as you follow some basic rules. Perhaps I should touch on this in an upcoming seminar.

During a walk through the pits on Saturday I came across a GSXR600 with a very tight rear chain. So many people commit this sin! It will overload your transmission and transmission bearings and make rear suspension adjustments less than meaningful.

Like so many sports those who work hard at learning their craft and optimising settings ( and indeed the basics ) will be rewarded.

Now I know that I am hard to pin down because I am so busy and ( with all respect to his current predicament ) am never going to be an ''in your face'' Shaun Harris sort of guy.....but please if you have any questions at a meeting, please come and ask me. My philosophy is to help people understand setting changes, not to do it all with no explanation and nothing learnt.

[codgyoleracer]

Also a horsepower loss with a tight chain Robert. GlenW:sick:

[Drew]

I'll concede a point to RT here, given his expertese, I'll start balancing wheels, it is fuckin simple, can be done with a golf ball and some stick on wieghts if you're real slack.

I'll mock up a jig for sitting axles and rims on, and any one who wants one, can hook me up with the materials cost.

[GSVR]

I'm wondering how out of balance a modern tyre is to begin with. Just reading some burb about Pirelli Corsa's being made totally by robotics "MIRS" and the uniformity is near perfect and imbalance minimal so possibly putting one of these tyres onto a balanced rim you will end up with a well balanced wheel anyway.

When I first started fitting my own tyres I balanced them alot but then found that if I left the lead on from the last time I balanced the wheel it was pretty close anyway leading me to the fact it was the rim that was out of balance and not the tyre.

Anyway I totally agree that anything works better and produces less harmful vibration and osillation when balanced correctly unless the vibration is a requirement.

Did I mention Pirelli Tyres! Dam good tyres

[Billy]

Sorry Gary,Jill got her information from me.Spoke to Dave Key on Monday to try to secure Kyles bike as a spare for Jill for the upcoming season (not that we need an extra bike at this stage,A fit rider would be of more use LOL).Sounded like a done deal too me still I guess nothings sold til the money changes hands aye.Have to give Dave another ring this morning.Cheers Billy. PS.Interesting point re tyre balance.Lent my 150 to Craig Shirriffs to do some tyre testing for MNZ when I got it back I noticed the tyres were not balanced.Causing considerable mid corner patter.When I spoke to Craig about it later he informed me he has never balanced his tyres ever.Go figure

[Keystone19]

Oi - stop giving away my secret sources Billy!

Gotta keep Garry wondering - it's another one of my race strategies - know more about your opponent than they know about themselves...!

Oh, and a question about balancing tyres - I know with the pirelli slicks they claim to be pre-balanced i.e. line up the red dots and you should be ok. How accurate is this or are the drugs working overtime again and there are no red dots?

[GSVR]

Oi - stop giving away my secret sources Billy!

Gotta keep Garry wondering - it's another one of my race strategies - know more about your opponent than they know about themselves...!

Oh, and a question about balancing tyres - I know with the pirelli slicks they claim to be pre-balanced i.e. line up the red dots and you should be ok. How accurate is this or are the drugs working overtime again and there are no red dots?

No wondering here Jill. The red spots are meant to be on the heaviest part of the tyre. The valve is meant to be the lightest part on the rim. Or is that the other way round? Anyway a good way to find out if you back wheel is balanced is to put the bike on the stand and rev the hell out of it in top gear. If it shakes itself off the stand and flips doing a wheelie you know the wheels not balanced.

Now wheres my K4 GSXR 1000 with 1500ks on Trademe for 10 Grand....

[oyster]

With the crude suspension on these it's absolutely critical to balance the wheels. I fixed a flatty on a youngster's bike the other day, (wrong tube, poorly fitted) they bought the best tyre as recomended (and fitted) by an Invercargill retailer, a Bridgestone. It ran 3mm out of true and took 105 grams to balance. Luckily it was on the rear, otherwise I would have suggested it NEVER went on the track again. Still, a big compromise. I suggested they took it back for a refund.
ALL WHEELS MUST BE BALANCED, it's a safety issue as well as performance.
It's another reason we like to use old slicks down south. They run true (within a millimetre) and often need no balancing (less than 5 grams)

[Robert Taylor]

Craig will laugh when he hears about this, he is a rider and will get someone else to do it, IF available. So many of these guys will ride around problems until there is a tech on hand to adjust ( also adjust the riders brain! ) Pirellis are less out of balance than many others but all tyres should be balanced, full stop. This is just as applicable to Casey Soner as it is to Joe Bloggs racing.

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry Casey Stoner! I guess what I am trying to say is we can either strive for mediocrity or strive for excellence, depends how hard you want to work at it...............................

[Tim 39]

thanks for this info Robert, I will make sure my wheels are balanced better from now on.
also thank you for your talk at the MNZ seminar in Christchurch, I learnt a great deal about the basics of suspension and I'm sure everyone else would have too!
Thanks again
Tim

[Billy]

Oi - stop giving away my secret sources Billy!

Gotta keep Garry wondering - it's another one of my race strategies - know more about your opponent than they know about themselves...!

Oh, and a question about balancing tyres - I know with the pirelli slicks they claim to be pre-balanced i.e. line up the red dots and you should be ok. How accurate is this or are the drugs working overtime again and there are no red dots?Mmm Sorry bout that Jill.Just trying to clear you of any blame re misinformation.Anyway I wouldnt worry too much about confusing Garry if he is happy to drive for 4 1/2 hours to look at a bike hes already seen with no intention of buying it Hes obviously already confused.

Re the Dot/valve saga.Some tyre manufacturers have the dots next to the valve stem indicating the light spot,Some have them opposite,Some have red dots,some have yellow,some have 2 dots some have 1,If at any stage you see more than 2 dots or they are not red or yellow seek medical advice.In the case of Pirellis it is red dots next to the valve.I would advise as has Robert that all tyres are balanced no matter what as the world is not a perfect place.Re the drugs Ive told you before to wait til after the crash before using them.Cheers Billy

[codgyoleracer]

Didnt you guys know that Gary has already bought my old bike ? :gob:

[GSVR]

Mmm Sorry bout that Jill.Just trying to clear you of any blame re misinformation.Anyway I wouldnt worry too much about confusing Garry if he is happy to drive for 4 1/2 hours to look at a bike hes already seen with no intention of buying it Hes obviously already confused.

Re the Dot/valve saga.Some tyre manufacturers have the dots next to the valve stem indicating the light spot,Some have them opposite,Some have red dots,some have yellow,some have 2 dots some have 1,If at any stage you see more than 2 dots or they are not red or yellow seek medical advice.In the case of Pirellis it is red dots next to the valve.I would advise as has Robert that all tyres are balanced no matter what as the world is not a perfect place.Re the drugs Ive told you before to wait til after the crash before using them.Cheers Billy

4 and a half hours? You obviously haven't taken a close look at my van or been heading in the same direction leaving an hour or so after me. Is a shame I couldn't reach an agreement with Mr Key I wish him all the best with the sale.

As for the Dot and valve thing. Some car rims have a dot on the rim. Why do people think the valve is going to always be the lightest spot. Some rims like the SV ones aren't nearly as well made or balanced as a top of the range sport bikes rims.

[Possum41]

Didnt you guys know that Gary has already bought my old bike ? :gob:

so does this mean you have a new SV glen??? i don't know why you would need a new one, we can't even get near you on your old one!!!! i think you should jump onto a 150 in our class and at least give us a slight chance:scooter:
As for the tyre balancing, i'm too lazy too do it myself and plus i don't have the levers or patience so the shop change mine and they always balance them so can't comment and racing on unbalanced rims.

[jon34]

Someone was asking about the Pro Twins rules and I see they are now on the MNZ web site
http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Rule%20Change%20Notification%20for%20the%20website .pdf

[Tim 39]

Those rules are pretty hard to understand... my interpretation is you arent allowed fibreglass fairings? aftermarket footpegs?

[Billy]

Yes you are allowed fibreglass fairings.By conventional they mean they have to be a replica of a current roadbike ie no home grown design rather GSXR.ZX10 or the like.Spent a bit of time going over this with Paul Stewart so as we werent selling people Bodywork they couldnt use.Cheers Billy

[johnsv650]

1...foot rest/foot controls must be mounted to the frame at the orginal mountin point, you can get after market ones as long as they mount at orginal point.
2...accessory aftermakrket fairing and bodywork maybe fitted,
the rule what got me was appendix d
the 20 year old rider...........
i hope they mean the under 20 year old

[codgyoleracer]

Hey Possum, Yip am going to build up a new one , the old girl at 67,500km is in need of some TLC & a shed load of new paint. So you think a Hi Oh Sing is the way to go then.................? :yes:

[Drew]

Wonder if you can cross enter F3 and pro twins, anyone?

[Keystone19]

The plan is to run F3 and protwin650 concurrently so they will race at the same time.

I guess if you were rich you could enter twice and try take both titles but the chances of a protwin bike winning F3 are about 0.

[Darkman]

but the chances of a protwin bike winning F3 are about 0.

Why is that? Does the Gixxer front ends make that big a difference or is there more to it?

Oh..and why does the chain guard need to be removed?

[Clivoris]

The plan is to run F3 and protwin650 concurrently so they will race at the same time.

I guess if you were rich you could enter twice and try take both titles but the chances of a protwin bike winning F3 are about 0.

If protwin gets big enough they might get their own race??? Would be great to see a field of largely identical machinery.

[feral1]

If protwin gets big enough they might get their own race??? Would be great to see a field of largely identical machinery.

It would be great to see a whole field of these pro-twins. Many of the south island guys are getting keen. So go on you fellas up north. get building.

In the meantime, it will be great to fill out the F3 field at the big nationals rounds. Will be some great racing going on and plenty of machines on the circuit (two titles being fought for at once). Good for spectators :)

Cheerio
Feral

[Keystone19]

Yup, the plan is that protwin650 will eventually have its own class and F3 will die out.

The reason that a stock protwin bike will not win F3 is because the engine modifications made to the F3 bikes push the power output up to well beyond a stock protwin 650. Unfortunately it is not just the front end modifications to a 650 that make a fast F3 bike.

[Drew]

The plan is to run F3 and protwin650 concurrently so they will race at the same time.

I guess if you were rich you could enter twice and try take both titles but the chances of a protwin bike winning F3 are about 0.

Which is why I ask if you can enter both, two races at once. And cross entering only costs ten bucks for the second calss, so you dont need to be that rich.

Just to be clear tho, I fully intend to win F3 on a protwin spec bike, as I will be entering on Darkmans 06 SV650:rockon:

(33 post before the flashy thingy)

[Keystone19]

Lol...go Drew!

Sorry, I was referring to the F3/Protwin class at the National Champs. What clubs choose to do is up to them, so yeah, go ahead and cross enter. I think you will find that at the Nationals there may not be the option to cross enter but I may be incorrect.

You will struggle to win the AMCC protwin class because it is open to any capacity protwin but it is run separately from F3 so you can cross enter.

[Tim 39]

the rule what got me was appendix d
the 20 year old rider...........
i hope they mean the under 20 year old
yes thats a bit of a bad typo to have in a rule book! have you queried them about it John?

[Drew]

Lol...go Drew!

Sorry, I was referring to the F3/Protwin class at the National Champs. What clubs choose to do is up to them, so yeah, go ahead and cross enter. I think you will find that at the Nationals there may not be the option to cross enter but I may be incorrect.

You will struggle to win the AMCC protwin class because it is open to any capacity protwin but it is run separately from F3 so you can cross enter.

For the moment, I'm just lookin to do the bizzo in the VMCC series, but I missed the first round, so I'll have to go double hard to claw all the points I can.

The nationals is a bridge I'll burn when we get to it I think.


(Any capacity eh...how best to grease up to Vicki???)

[BornToLean]

You will struggle to win the AMCC protwin class because it is open to any capacity protwin ............

So, if I understand this correctly, MNZ come up with a class that keeps the costs down, has machinery of equal performance and will provide some close racing - BUT THEN AUCKLAND would rather have a more traditional class where the biggest most expensive bike wins every time?
All of a sudden people start to lose interest, again. :gob:

If I could be any more cynical I would suggest that someone with influence has a large capacity twin they want to race!

[flame]

- BUT THEN AUCKLAND would rather have a more traditional class where the biggest most expensive bike wins every time?
All of a sudden people start to lose interest, again. :gob:

If I could be any more cynical I would suggest that someone with influence has a large capacity twin they want to race!

I guess to be fair.....the 650's are blitzing in F3, so having their own class will give the lesser powered older bikes their own chance to race similer rated oposition. Unlike 1000cc v-twins which are comparitively lower powered than their main opposition in their only eligible class ( F1 or Superbike )as bears don't seem to take it to the racetracks in the north island :(. Litre twins will hopefully get their own class too one day :yes:

[Keystone19]

So, if I understand this correctly, MNZ come up with a class that keeps the costs down, has machinery of equal performance and will provide some close racing - BUT THEN AUCKLAND would rather have a more traditional class where the biggest most expensive bike wins every time?
All of a sudden people start to lose interest, again. :gob:

If I could be any more cynical I would suggest that someone with influence has a large capacity twin they want to race!

To be fair to AMCC their Protwin class has been running a fair bit longer than the MNZ proposed Protwin650 Championship class. Time will tell if the AMCC will change to just protwin650 but I actually hope they stick with an open Protwin class for a bit longer as a) there are not yet enough protwin 650s racing in Auckland to make a stand alone class, and b) there is no other class for the larger protwin/usually BEARS bikes to race in Auckland other than F1 and F2 where they are not usually competitive (see Flame's post below).


I guess to be fair.....the 650's are blitzing in F3, so having their own class will give the lesser powered older bikes their own chance to race similer rated oposition. Unlike 1000cc v-twins which are comparitively lower powered than their main opposition in their only eligible class ( F1 or Superbike )as bears don't seem to take it to the racetracks in the north island :(. Litre twins will hopefully get their own class too one day :yes:


Kind of. If you look at the results from the National Series you will see that it was pretty evenly matched between SV650s, modified 450s and home built stuff at the top end. Those top end SV650s have had a fair amount done to them to make them competitive at the top end. Stuff that will be illegal under the protwin rules.

[feral1]

....If you look at the results from the National Series you will see that it was pretty evenly matched between SV650s, modified 450s and home built stuff at the top end. Those top end SV650s have had a fair amount done to them to make them competitive at the top end. Stuff that will be illegal under the protwin rules.

Hey Jill,

do you recon a few of the moderatly worked SV's will spec there bikes back to Pro-Twin regs??
i.e. how many of those fully worked SV's will stay with F3?
Whats your plans, going to carry on in F3?

Feral
(Eric)

[BornToLean]

To be fair to AMCC their Protwin class has been running a fair bit longer than the MNZ proposed Protwin650 Championship class.

Oops, didn't know that. Appologies to AMCC.
Head pulled in again.

[Clivoris]

I guess to be fair.....the 650's are blitzing in F3, so having their own class will give the lesser powered older bikes their own chance to race similer rated oposition.

Those hot-rodded 650's will still be in F3. My understanding is that protwin 650 is about giving riders an affordable step between streetstock and supersport. Us fullas on little old mildly tuned 400's will need to have bucket loads of talent or choose to race amongst ourselves. Still, cheap (relatively) racing is cheap racing.

[evol mas]

rubish jill you put a quality rider (stroudy , sherifs ect )on a top end pro twin bike and he could win eazy!! ther isint that much difference between a protwin650 bike and a f3 650

[Clivoris]

rubish jill you put a quality rider (stroudy , sherifs ect )on a top end pro twin bike and he could win eazy!! ther isint that much difference between a protwin650 bike and a f3 650

Craig Shirrifs could lap me round Manfield on a BMX with only one pedal.

[Keystone19]

Hey Jill,

do you recon a few of the moderatly worked SV's will spec there bikes back to Pro-Twin regs??
i.e. how many of those fully worked SV's will stay with F3?
Whats your plans, going to carry on in F3?

Feral
(Eric)

I think as Clivoris says above, those guys in F3 racing modified SVs will not be returning their bikes to protwin spec. I have thought long and hard about it and have decided to stick with my current F3 spec SV for the coming season. If I race protwin it would be on a new bike not my current SV. There's a range of reasons for this and I'll be happy to PM you with those if you're interested...:yes:


rubish jill you put a quality rider (stroudy , sherifs ect )on a top end pro twin bike and he could win eazy!! ther isint that much difference between a protwin650 bike and a f3 650

Lol! Possibly that's true Sam. Kyle Key did pretty well on a stock SV against the likes of Terry Fitzgerald and Andy Bolwell although his bike is still not protwin spec. It would be great to see any of those top guys go head to head with the top SV riders on modified bikes in F3 to see if what you say is right. There is only about 15hp between a protwin spec bike and a modified one...

[GSVR]

rubish jill you put a quality rider (stroudy , sherifs ect )on a top end pro twin bike and he could win eazy!! ther isint that much difference between a protwin650 bike and a f3 650

So how much difference would the bikes have if say the same rider rode each. ie Rossi rode Andy Bolwells 450 then say Kyle Keys bike?


And just a question for everyone thats read the rules...

Do you have to retain the original subframes? (Just incase I can't read)

[codgyoleracer]

I dont realy see how the F3 class will "die öut" - as it accomodates such a broad range of machinery currently. It also is the only "F" class left, meaning that riders have the ability to tootle with many different aspects of the machine & not abide to "production based rules". Other than 125gp the F3 class is the only class that allows cart-blanche & leading edge (sometimes trial by error) development.
The ProTwins class fits in nicely as a starter class & accomodates stock 650 four valve twins of which there are a few choices on the market. These should be relativly affordable to build. Although like any "production class" finding additional performance when restricted by rules , can often be far more expensive & require specialised mods. The ones that want to win will be likely to always push the envelope in this respect.
ProTwins guys should try to monitor themselves & try to restrict non stock components from creeping into the class. As/If this happens & machines become more & more "developed within the rules" - an outsider looking into the class begins to view it as difficult to enter & be competitive.

As far as how competitive the same rider would go on a Pro-Twin versus F3 Twin machine - , the F3 Twin should win every time. This assumes that both bikes have been developed to a reasnoble level within the rules for its class.

An experienced racer on a Pro-Twin bike would be very likely beat an average rider on a good F3 bike though. This is shown in other clases where fast 600 riders lap quicker than 1000cc machines quite often. :dodge:

[Keystone19]

Wot he said ^^^^^^

[Billy]

Firstly Garry,Yes you can change the subframes so long as they mount in the same place as the original.Evol mas you should never underestimate the ability of any rider especially wily old campaigners like Andy Bolwell and Terry Fitzgerald and Im sure both Craig &Stroudy could definitely give the aforementioned a hurry up at 1 or 2 tracks I think they would struggle to win a national championship over 5 rounds on a pro twins bike in formula 3.If you think back 4 months neither Stroudy or Craig could win a championship in a class where they had competitive machinery(Superbike & 600).Then if you through into the mix Jason Nairn,Glen Williams,Jason Easton,Jill Clendon all on faster F3 machinery I think it would be unrealistic to expect any rider too win F3 on a pro twins bike

[Billy]

I dont realy see how the F3 class will "die öut" - as it accomodates such a broad range of machinery currently. It also is the only "F" class left, meaning that riders have the ability to tootle with many different aspects of the machine & not abide to "production based rules". Other than 125gp the F3 class is the only class that allows cart-blanche & leading edge (sometimes trial by error) development.
The ProTwins class fits in nicely as a starter class & accomodates stock 650 four valve twins of which there are a few choices on the market. These should be relativly affordable to build. Although like any "production class" finding additional performance when restricted by rules , can often be far more expensive & require specialised mods. The ones that want to win will be likely to always push the envelope in this respect.
ProTwins guys should try to monitor themselves & try to restrict non stock components from creeping into the class. As/If this happens & machines become more & more "developed within the rules" - an outsider looking into the class begins to view it as difficult to enter & be competitive.

As far as how competitive the same rider would go on a Pro-Twin versus F3 Twin machine - , the F3 Twin should win every time. This assumes that both bike have been developed to a reasnoble level within the rules for its class.

An experienced racer on a Pro-Twin bike would be very likely beat an average rider on a good F3 bike though. This is shown in other clases where fast 600 riders lap quicker than 1000cc machines quite often. :dodge:

Yeah,So anyway Glen.What tootling have you done just so we know what to do to our SV?

[codgyoleracer]

Hi Billy, The pretty yellow & purple one has had its last race. The even prettier silver bullet is "under development" & its kinda like James Bond 007 - I'd have to kill ya if I told ya........
Bottom line for me though is I want it to be reliable & cheap to run - am getting to tired & old to be playing with engines all the time of feeding rubber to Superbikes. Hey Billy , I need another set of glass as well. :Punk:

[Billy]

Hi Billy, The pretty yellow & purple one has had its last race. The even prettier silver bullet is "under development" & its kinda like James Bond 007 - I'd have to kill ya if I told ya........
Bottom line for me though is I want it to be reliable & cheap to run - am getting to tired & old to be playing with engines all the time of feeding rubber to Superbikes. Hey Billy , I need another set of glass as well. :Punk:

Didnt think pretty/purple and yellow all fitted in the same sentence!!Anyway another set of glass would be no probs just let me know when and we will get it down to you.So I guess that means you cant kill me just yet huh.

[feral1]

I dont realy see how the F3 class will "die öut" - as it accomodates such a broad range of machinery currently. It also is the only "F" class left, meaning that riders have the ability to tootle with many different aspects of the machine & not abide to "production based rules". Other than 125gp the F3 class is the only class that allows cart-blanche & leading edge (sometimes trial by error) development.


Agree with your statement, Glenn. I for one am happy with how the new class and splits worked out, its great to see a new production 'in between' class for development but still keeping the ol' F3 and all those people in the picture and on the track whom have made an effort to develop their F3 bikes. Will be cool for spectators if they run the classes together. Hope lots of ppl are building up pro-rwin spec SV aye.
You planning on coming down to Greymouth and Wyndham Streetraces again this year?

[Possum41]

Pro twins will definately become a great competative class to race in, i for one will be keeping my Hyosung as a pro twin, it makes it more affordable for me and i know that the only advantage other riders have over me is their ability and race craft.

Check out my write up in the latest motorcycle trader and news mag, a racing Hyosung finally makes a notable article in a national magazine, and i get my first appearance in a mag aswell:rockon: :scooter:

[feral1]

Wicked Possum41,

I'll be sure to check out the latest MCT&N next time i am in the bookstore. good job

Feral

[Keystone19]

Check out my write up in the latest motorcycle trader and news mag, a racing Hyosung finally makes a notable article in a national magazine, and i get my first appearance in a mag aswell:rockon: :scooter:

Yeah, I saw that you cutie...

I agee with your sentiments that protwin will become a competitive class and from the interest expressed here and at the track it's already got a great start in terms of numbers.