Lowering a bike so that your feet touch [Archive]

<G>

29th May 2007, 18:49

the ground. Has anyone done that? I'm 5 foot and have a problem when I move up from my Eliminator 250cc.

I sat on a Kawasaki 750, first have climb up and then my feet dangle way above the ground - even when I sat on a lowered one.

I'm looking at getting a Kawasaki ER6N, feet touch on the very tips of my boots. They say they can lower it (and the 750) but I would like to hear from anyone who has lowered their bike.

I don't like cruisers feet positions so not interested in any of those, although they have they ideal seat height.

I don't usually mind being short but I can see that taking a bike out for a test ride is going to be a mission, I'm going to need somebody behind me to put their feet down when we come to a stop :)

Trudes

29th May 2007, 18:57

I feel your pain and frustration. My mum always told me that good things come in small packages, and as much as she was right, it's a pain in the arse when you want to ride a bike!
Check out this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=50551) recent thread, and some advice I gave a fellow shortarse!
Good luck, hope it helps, feel free to ask more questions if you like and others may have some different ideas for you also. Different bikes have different ways of lowering the suspension etc also.

ajturbo

29th May 2007, 19:21

it would be good to touch the ground on the buell....

johnnyflash

29th May 2007, 19:26

kiwifruit

29th May 2007, 19:26

you only need one foot on the ground when stationary
mate of mine is 5 foot even, rides a zxr6rr no probs....

just slide yourself off to one side, the downhill side should it apply

Hitcher

29th May 2007, 20:30

1. Bike salespeople always say that a bike can be lowered. This task becomes inordinately more complex once you have purchased the bike. Don't trust them. They just want to sell you a bike.

2. Before you start fannying around with suspension and dropping forks through triple clamps, get the seat lowered. You may only gain a centimetre or two, but it's a start. Don't get some cowboy foam trimmer to butcher your seat, go to McDonalds in Tauranga.

3. Go to a decent cobblers and get the soles of your boots built up a couple of centimetres. Make sure the instep doesn't get too confined by this process so your boots get pegged to the pegs.

4. If all of the above haven't helped, seek professional advice from a somebody who really knows how to measure and adjust a bike's suspension. Geometry of a bike didn't happen by accident. Mess with it at your peril!

Joni

29th May 2007, 20:32

Madduck had her SV650 lowered... pop her a pm, she will know the ins and outs, and what to avoid! :yes:

Motu

29th May 2007, 21:14

Sportster Hugger,660mm.Harley have been making lowered bikes for short people since the '60's - how come no other manufacturer has bothered?

moT

29th May 2007, 21:16

i new a guy who knew a midget who rode a r1 u think u have problems

thehollowmen

29th May 2007, 21:40

i new a guy who knew a midget who rode a r1 u think u have problems

Yeah, a vertically challanged guy at the chch hospital rides this sweet R6.
He has great big cahoonies

MotoGirl

29th May 2007, 22:30

I've lowered all three of my bikes (VTR1000, GSX-R1000 and RSVR1000) and I'm only 164cm tall.

You could use a different method to lower each style of bike; that is, how you lower a cruiser would be different to lowering a sportsbike.

How you lower the bike will depend on the type of bike and your budget. It will also depend on how much you need to lower the bike.

I've modified these things on my bikes:
- The seat to reduce height and width (all of my bikes)
- Stock shock rebuilt to give lower ride height (VTR)
- After market dogbones (Gixxer lowered an inch, we've also lowered a Hayabusa 3 inches)
With the second and third methods you would need to drop the front forks through the triple clamp to even it up.

You could also consider an after market shock such as Ohlins with ride-height adjustment.

MotoGirl

29th May 2007, 22:34

you only need one foot on the ground when stationary
mate of mine is 5 foot even, rides a zxr6rr no probs....

just slide yourself off to one side, the downhill side should it apply

I disagree with that somewhat. It's fine and dandy using one foot to hold yourself up on flat ground in nice weather. It's a bitch maneuvering the bike on uneven ground or holding it up when the wind is blasting you from both directions.

Disco Dan

29th May 2007, 22:37

2. Before you start fannying around with suspension and dropping forks through triple clamps, get the seat lowered. You may only gain a centimetre or two, but it's a start. Don't get some cowboy foam trimmer to butcher your seat, go to McDonalds in Tauranga.

havent heard that one in a while! ;)

I hear a certain medieval torture method works well :)

crashe

29th May 2007, 23:22

Sportster Hugger,660mm.Harley have been making lowered bikes for short people since the '60's - how come no other manufacturer has bothered?

Its not only the height of the seat from the ground.... it is also the width of the seat.

If the seat is too wide and you have short legs then your feet still wont reach the ground.

I know this cos I have sat on the lowest lowrider HOG that they (AMPS) got in a couple of years ago.... my leg was still swinging off the ground due to the width of the seat.

So the other option is also check out the width of the seat on any bike that you are looking into buying..... can it be made narrower as well as thinner.

Disco Dan

29th May 2007, 23:28

Its not only the height of the seat from the ground.... it is also the width of the seat.

If the seat is too wide and you have short legs then your feet still wont reach the ground.

I know this cos I have sat on the lowest lowrider HOG that they (AMPS) got in a couple of years ago.... my leg was still swinging off the ground due to the width of the seat.

So the other option is also check out the width of the seat on any bike that you are looking into buying..... can it be made narrower as well as thinner.

Great advice, I still think the "make yourself taller using ancient medieval torture techniques" used not be dismissed... :innocent:

naughty

30th May 2007, 00:03

magicfairy

30th May 2007, 07:15

I disagree with that somewhat. It's fine and dandy using one foot to hold yourself up on flat ground in nice weather. It's a bitch maneuvering the bike on uneven ground or holding it up when the wind is blasting you from both directions.

Agreed, you can get caught out having to stop unexpectedly over ground that drops away (service station exits are my personal favourite) go to put your foot down to find nothing there and over she goes. Likewise there are intersections in Wellington, that when the wind is blowing hard, you have to feet planted just to keep the bike upright. Some people seem to be nimble enough to hop on and off a high bike, but moving up from a learner is challenging enough without having to worry about keeping it upright.

I made the mistake of thinking tip-toe was enough, dropped my bike when caught out too many times, and went for something lower (I am also 5ft with short legs)

Ditto McDonalds motor trimmers, they do a great job!

NotaGoth

30th May 2007, 07:40

Its not only the height of the seat from the ground.... it is also the width of the seat.

If the seat is too wide and you have short legs then your feet still wont reach the ground.

Agreed.. Width steals the height that you need.. Yet I've tried explaining it and people still stare at me like I'm really stupid and have no idea what I'm talking about...

I also agree with Motogirl... On my RG I have feet on the ground on both sides.. But also realize now that I don't have enough "give" in my legs... I've hit uneven ground, tried to put my foot down and fallen over before.. There was just nothing there when I tried to find it!!

Alls well if you think you can handle saving your bike before it ends up on the ground while all the while frantically searching for where to put your feet...
Mum was the same when she learnt to ride... Shes about 5 foot tall and found pulling up in certain places had to be avoided..

I guess you can only lower a bike so much.. Really the choice is yours as to wether you want both feet firm or if you think you'll manage not being able to touch the ground properly if the bike in question can't be lowered "enough"

yungatart

30th May 2007, 08:20

I also ride an Eliminator, I'm not tall at 5'4', but have just bought a Ninja 500 EX, and yes I can touch the ground easily on that one too.
On the EL my legs are bent, much straighter on the EX, but they do touch comfortably.

MadDuck

30th May 2007, 08:33

1. Bike salespeople always say that a bike can be lowered. This task becomes inordinately more complex once you have purchased the bike. Don't trust them. They just want to sell you a bike.

Geometry of a bike didn't happen by accident. Mess with it at your peril!

I can so agree with this comment. Thankfully a friend who kinda knows a bit about SVs helped me sort the bike to a safe and comfortable ride.

There is a thread about all the crap I faced when lowering the bike. Will try and find the link for you.

Must say though that perserverance now means I love my bike :love:

MadDuck

30th May 2007, 08:36

I don't usually mind being short but I can see that taking a bike out for a test ride is going to be a mission, I'm going to need somebody behind me to put their feet down when we come to a stop :)

Guy at the bike shop pissed himself when I took an SV for a test ride.

I had to roll it over to the curb to be able to get on the damn thing. All the way I was thinking....I hope those damn lights dont go red!!!

Pwalo

30th May 2007, 10:35

I'm not too sure that the ER6 is a suitable candidate for lowering. In most cases people seem to fit longer dog bones and slide the front forks up through the triple clamps.

This works (to a certain extent) with bikes with a rising rate rear suspension (honest - have a look at any sports bike), but the ER6 has a fixed rear shock which complicates things a bit more. The only way that you can easily alter your rear ride height would be to fit a shorter or softer spring, and I have a snaky feeling that this will raise some issues with frame and steering geometry.

I'd be intrigued as to how your dealer approaches this one.

5'0" is probably going to limit your choice of bike a bit. It's bad enough being 5'6".

The only thing I can suggest is the good old trawl around all the bike shops that are handy, and sit on everything. Pity that there aren't so many of the old 400 grey imports around.

Good luck.

Joni

30th May 2007, 11:00

Pity that there aren't so many of the old 400 grey imports around.
yeah, I had a CBR400RR lowered slightly in South Africa... loved that bike... It was considered a grey import.

I reckon if the lowering is done properly, its a great solution for us shorties!

<G>

30th May 2007, 13:07

Great advice, I still think the "make yourself taller using ancient medieval torture techniques" used not be dismissed... :innocent:

You volunteering your legs for this procedure?:whistle:

<G>

30th May 2007, 13:18

Thank you all for your input...I had considered what lowering the bike would do to the handling of it, not to mention the cost factor.

I have already experienced what happens when you put your leg down and the camber of the road was steeper than expected, fortunately I was able to keep her from falling over! So don't want to be on tippy toes - recipe for disaster for me. I know there are heaps of short guys who ride big bikes - good on them. I have to do what feels right for me.

I love the Eliminator :love: - we have done around 3000kms now and she cruises well at 120, only drawback is the lack of power - need a long run to overtake. We do long distance rides and I've been advised that a bigger bike will be more comfortable. Plus the Eliminator is 18 years old and is showing her age.

magicfairy

30th May 2007, 13:24

I love the Eliminator :love: - we have done around 3000kms now and she cruises well at 120, only drawback is the lack of power - need a long run to overtake. We do long distance rides and I've been advised that a bigger bike will be more comfortable. Plus the Eliminator is 18 years old and is showing her age.

I went for the S50 (800cc cruiser) cos it was very low and and I could put my feet down - which I couldn't do even on a Harley cruiser.
The 800cc gives it loads of power - more than Ill ever need and I have ridden over 400ks in a day and been perfectly comfortable the whole time. For me the proportions are perfect and the foot pegs are not forward controls so leg position is comfy. If you love the Eliminator you may want to look at one of these - or the 650cc S40.

Pwalo

30th May 2007, 14:32

yeah, I had a CBR400RR lowered slightly in South Africa... loved that bike... It was considered a grey import.

I reckon if the lowering is done properly, its a great solution for us shorties!

Yep, I considered a CBR400 a few years back. The only trouble is that they were getting a bit long in the tooth, and parts etc weren't always the easiest to get hold of.

Very nice little bike though.

MadDuck

30th May 2007, 20:47

I love the Eliminator :love: - we have done around 3000kms now and she cruises well at 120, only drawback is the lack of power - need a long run to overtake. We do long distance rides and I've been advised that a bigger bike will be more comfortable.

The main reason I went up from the VTR250 was the lack of overtaking power but when Keystone flew past me while I was on the SV I wanted to put my toys back and head home.

I have spent the night trying to find the old link and I have to say thanx cos I ran over some really old threads with names of people and great advice from the past. Alas I couldnt find the thread I wanted to send you.

I did at the time contact Suzuki NZ (anonymously) asking about the mods on the bike and suddenly the shop came to the party given we were a smaller community back then they were as helpful as they could be.

The best thing that came out of the process (ive had the bike for 3 years now) for me was I decided to learn more about bikes and not be taken for a girl. At the time a whole heap of KB blokes offered to come be my spokes person. Now I dont need them because I decided to learn for myself.

My advice is to ask all the questions. Try lots of bikes but avoid lowering if at all possible ...dammit I took an FZR150 out for a blast not so long ago and loved it.

Mom

30th May 2007, 20:53

dammit I took an FZR150 out for a blast not so long ago and loved it.

You made that little baby fly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who would have thought something so cute and little and...........small.........and.......well FZR150ish could go so well...:innocent:

moT

30th May 2007, 20:59

get your legs surgically lengthend:mellow:

MadDuck

30th May 2007, 21:07

get your legs surgically lengthend:mellow:

OK but that would make our bodies disproportionate...is that ok with you blokes?

What am I saying ...of cos it will :yes:

granma2

31st May 2007, 06:50

I too am only 5' and have a CBR600 sportsbike.

I considered all other bikes before buying this one. I test rode several bikes and the bike I really liked was unable to be successfully lowered enough for me. That was a R6. LOTS AND LOTS of us shorties have professionally lowered bikes that are just fine.
The ER6N is a good choice.
If I had had enough $ I would have bought one.
I sat on one that had been raced for a while and the rear suspension was a bit softer than the brand new bike. This made touching the ground even easier.

I havent lowered my 600 and have learnt to compensate for the fact that I cant touch both feet on the ground.
Dont listen to all the negative rubbish about lowering bikes as times have changed and so has the technology of the bikes.
Take a look at the new CBR600....the technology of this bike is far superior to most others. You can buy a lowering kit. Seek professional advice from the dealer you are looking at buying the bike from. I found them to be very honest about the ability to lower any bike in question.
Increase your sole height on your shoes and changing the seat all helps.
There is some good positive advice on this thread, use it.
Good luck.

90s

1st June 2007, 13:55

I'll throw in a slightly different viewpoint for arguments sake:

As a mountainbiker as well as a biker I am fanatical about setting up a bicycle correctly. For on-road or even XC competition on a bike this means raising the seat so your leg is very slightly bend at the bottom of the crank-stroke. This may mean that when you stop you have anything up to 20cm to the group for your foot at the very least - basically the bike is set up so you cannot reach the ground. You learn to trackstand ('hover'), come forward off the bike or lean way over to stop. Set up this way you get much more power and better back alignment etc.
Many neewbies are scared by this, and most purely diary-and-back riders set their bikes up for being able to touch the ground - bad riding.

The point is that once you become more competent the problems dissappear. The benefits outweigh the negatives.

Now bearing in mind that my MTB weighs 10kg and my bike comes in at 225kg and there is no frame top tube lower than the seat, the issues have some similarity.

When you are confident on a bike you won't nesc. be looking to have to put both feet down. You may find a lowered bike actually cramped, liable to peg-sparks etc. What I am saying is don't fixate on changing a bike to cover lack of experience. Get practiced, get comfortable and then when you find your ideal bike, modify that to suit your mature riding style, rather than rush to fix bikes to a poorer riding style.

Hey, this is really flawed but thought I'd through it in.

(can't reach the ground on both sides and couldn't care less)

SDU

1st June 2007, 14:06

Heaps of good advice here. Start with the simple stuff first like the seat alteration & if you can, have a good suspension person lower & set up the bike for better handling.
Hobbits have been modifying bikes & adjusting their riding to compensate for lack of legs for years there may be someone who has lowered the bike model you wish to buy, that can advise you the best way or allow you to sit on it.
I have had to have all my bikes lowered (-except for a tl50) & can only get toes of 1 foot down, making hills, rally sites & crappy uneven roads all part of the challenge.:yes::scooter:

Hitcher

1st June 2007, 14:29

Hey, this is really flawed but thought I'd through it in.

Throw.

And yes, your thoughts are flawed. You should have spotted that when you noted the not inconsiderable weight difference between a motorbike and a treadly. This manifests itself in several ways:

-- You can't pick up your motorbike to turn it around.
-- If it falls on you, your motorbike will hurt you.
-- If it falls over, you may not be able to easily/quickly pick your motorbike up.
-- Leaning your motorbike over to get a leg down puts it off balance. And it may be three-times heavier than you, making it hard to balance.

Yes, confidence can make it easier for shorter riders to manage tall bikes, but there are still some physical issues to contend with that treadly riders don't have.

90s

1st June 2007, 15:18

Throw.

And yes, your thoughts are flawed. .

Thanks for the typo catch hitcher.

Sure, just making a general point as many newbs seem obsessed with getting both feet flat on the floor. It is not very important in the end. As someone else said in a previous post, with experience you are aware of places where you might have to pick a bike up, not be able to get a foot to the ground because of camber, etc. That awareness comes with experience.
And I'll stick with my general point - you can focus too much on adjusting the bike to compensate for short-term lack of skill and regret it once you improve.

Just a thought as Devil's advocate.

magicfairy

1st June 2007, 15:53

Thanks for the typo catch hitcher.

Sure, just making a general point as many newbs seem obsessed with getting both feet flat on the floor. It is not very important in the end.

Oh really....
I bought a bike I couldn't get my feet down on the ground properly, got caught out quite a few times, dropped it 5 times in as many weeks, all low speed, caught out over high ground, by the time I had leaned it over enough to reach the ground it was past point of no return. Very confidence shattering.
Replaced it with one that I could at least get both feet balls of foot down as same time, did not drop it once in 18 months.

Chrislost

1st June 2007, 22:17

bah just ride side sadle coming up to the lights?
or evolve, come on they taught us that it was possable to adapt at uni...

moT

3rd June 2007, 02:37

se if you got your legs lengthend this would solve a lot of problems but dont get them lengthend too long or it may create some

moko

3rd June 2007, 03:47

There's a company in Britain that specialise in lowering bikes,originally started because someone had exactly your problem.Might even be worth looking at some kind of N.Z. franchise from what I've read here.Seat chop is a good start though,my bikes got nearly 3 inches taken out and unless it's parked next to a standard one most wouldn't notice.I bought the bike like it but much prefer the "both feet flat on the floor" bit so left it alone.
Here's a link to the lowering people:
http://www.drshull.co.uk/index.php?action=static&staticpage=1

Sis

3rd June 2007, 18:16

I have a lowered bike.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15302000636.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5594074)

I have included a picture to show you what I did to the rear suspension. The front forks have been lowered a corresponding amount.

My husband had the bike before me and he has ridden it since. His comment - still the same bike, still handles the same. And it doesn't drag the pegs. I hit my feet first.

And the amount of confidence that comes with lowering it is in logerithmic form.
I don't have to worry about where I am stopping:shit: and can concentrate on enjoying the ride.:yes:
I used to ride trail bikes and would have to almost dismount if I stopped. I am getting too old for that game. I am much happier with the bike I have now.:love:

<G>

4th June 2007, 10:19

Thank you again for all the helpful comments.There's a website that lists the specifications for bikes and that will be my starting point. www.bikez.com
Armed with this knowledge :) - hopefully not a dangerous thing - I will discuss the options with the motorcycle dealer.
Thank you for the Drshull site, Moko, I'll tell Mt Eden about it - who knows what may come of it.

I have 5 months to go on my restricted so maybe I'll have a new bike for Xmas :yes:

FROSTY

4th June 2007, 19:08

reccomended order of events--1 lower /narrow the seat 2 build up boot soles a bit 3 CAREFULLY lower the suspension.
madducks SV afterbeing "professionally" lowered was downright dangerous so be carefull
One comment --in your earlier stages of riding--ie the first couple of months I would reverse that order--I feel that handling is less important to a novice than the confidence that being flatfoooted gives

surfchick

8th June 2007, 17:10

you could get a ducati 996 - it's not very tall!!

actually - I'd recommend going for something that doesn't need too much lowering and that has a narrower seat as I'd be of the camp that wouldn't want to alter the bikes too much from their original spec. Daily handling is an issue , I wouldn't mind tip-toe on both sides as a limit. The ducati 996 is not that tall because its a beautifully narrow bike, but if I'm wearing sneakers and not boots its very hard to roll it up slight hills cause I can't get enough traction-which would be a mighty pain in the asse for manouvering and parking and getting out of the garage etc... It might come down to how badly you want a certain bike and how much you are prepared to risk not touching the ground. I've got a few small indonesian mates who all ride bikes they can't reach the ground on that well, but they don't care and away they go...! Allegedly Pedrosa has basically a shrunk bike to race on cause he's sooooo small they builted him a wee special one eventually...imagine what they are saving on carbon parts cause he's so light...coool

janno

15th June 2007, 14:19

I sold a gorgeous, new SV650 because it was too top heavy for me. I'm 5'6, but not the strongest, and after dropping the friggin thing three times in as many weeks when I first got it, I was always a bit nervy of it around town (Brisbane with mega traffic and truly awful road surfaces.)

After eight months of struggle and determination, I sold the damn thing after realising I wasn't enjoying it, and got a tiny wee Honda NT650. Within a month my speeds through the twisties came up about 30km, I was using all of my tyres, and realised I wasn't scared of my bike. I was able to start riding the way I'd always wanted to.

All because I knew wherever I stopped, both feet would touch the ground with a nicely bent knee (strongest leg postition). The wrong bike for me really held my riding back, not a good thing when you are trying to improve your skills.

These days, I've ridden friend's VFR800 and Kwaka Z1000 bikes, and if I bought these bikes the only thing I would do is get the seat shaved a little.

So if you have to get a tiny in stature bike in the mean time, don't forget, when your skill level gets up, you'll be able to look at a much wider choice of bikes. So what I'm trying to say is, get a tiny bike now if you need to - it won't be permanent if you decide to look at something with a bigger frame later. Yes, skill has a lot to do with the type of bike you can ride, but IMHO you need to have the confidence in your bike first, to get that skill going in the first place.

And a lot of blokes have great difficulty comprehending the difference between upper body strength and leg strength between men and women. Makes a huge difference when you are trying to hold the bike up after it gets past suicide point.

Jan.