F5’s first ever brand new bike!

[F5 Dave]

. . . Will have to be deferred as I’ve gone & done something else. See picture (haven't taken one myself yet, this is from past owner).

My rational is that one probably won’t be able to new register a 2 stroke in this increasingly worrisome cotton wool environment. One can’t buy a new 2 stroke, but I’d like one. Best act now.

So how much would you pay for a decent new 2 stroke I ask meself? As much as an R6. Well so be it.

This is really dumb, I’ll never get the money back if I decided to sell it. Maybe I should have bought that R6/GSXR/ABC600, but I didn’t want just another mass production bike.

Project road going 2 stroke begins.

I was inspired by someone putting an RZ into a RS250, but that was a lot of work. - I am realistic. Specials take time to build, a lot longer than many would believe & increase in price like there’s no day after tomorrow.

So I came across this one in an RG250 with RGV 250 front & rear end in it. Just a random email I shot off asking how it had got on & started talking & the bike had sat in a mate of his shed for over 2 years as he had been posted. Did I want to buy it? He made me an offer I couldn’t refuse so I did a bit of investigating & went ahead.

Problem was it was in Kalgoorlie (Perth). Brave or stupid I was about to find out. So after a month or so it arrived on Friday after much dickn around & extra expense in customs etc.
What I have learnt:

Customs suck, the shipping was the cheapest part. The trucking from Kalgoorlie was more expensive. Had to pay GST on purchase price, need a receipt of course. Should put frame no on shipping docs so you can prove bike legit when go to register it.

I got stung by customs for the bike not being clean so they had a raft of charges to steam clean it (they never did lying sods) & then paid 1/2 a doz $30 fees from everyone from the LTSA to the Forestry for no good reason I could see.

Took it home & cleaned it, cleaned out the oozing carbs, squirted some premix into the crankcase to lube the mains & plug holes & kicked it over. then it started.


It needed a damn good clean & there are a few details (like the wiring that are a bit bodgy, but current spec:

Frame: RG250W..
swing arm RGV/P 93 front end rgv/m
carbon hugger/fron mudguard braided lines,
ohlins rear shock,
ohlins steering damper,
rgv/m fairing seat unit,
custom made 3way triple clamps
Motor: race porting shaved head Keihin PWK flatslide carbs(off KR1S).uni filter pods, boysen reads
New balanced crank,wiseco 2nd oversize pistons(365cc displacement)
Toomey racing USA expansion chambers,
spondon clipons,
racetech goldvalves,
Supposedly 70hp rear wheel

Oh yeah apparently the bike was featured in some Aussie bike mag, performance streetbike maybe? Dunno, wouldn't mind a photocopy if someone has one.

But this is only the base starting point.

Next is throw away most of the engine & start again with new aftermarket parts. It appears that the Banshee Quad (basically an RZ350 engine) is very popular in the states & has an enormous aftermarket following.

So. .
Trinity aftermarket monoblock top end with PVs, V Force reeds, nickasil plating & modern porting, head with replaceable domes 72mm bore.
7mm stroker billet crank

= 496cc of modern 2 stroke engine.

35mm Keihen PWKs
Custom made pipes for midrange

Yeehaa!

Chequebook tuning for sure & it is costing 1.6 million dollars but what the heck.

Not just dreaming, the bits are bought, due in a couple of weeks.

Hoping to have bike sorted before summer. Pipes will take some while + there is a bunch more to do like adjust the riding position etc.

[James Deuce]

Good grief, DT on a 2 smoke again!

It's deja vu all over again!

[JayRacer37]

ooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo oooo


:drool: :eek: :headbang: :blank:

[F5 Dave]

Can't believe you guys can read so quick, I'm still proofing:sunny:

[Paul in NZ]

Bugger me thats COOL! Very Cool!

[Goblin]

Wow! :gob: That looks positively WICKED!!
Congrats man!:niceone:

[Sketchy_Racer]

Dave, surely you're getting too old to have a bike as awsome as that!

Now look what you've done, made all us young fellas jealous!!!

;)

[chanceyy]

no wonder you left for home on sunday .. needed to get home & have a play huh .. very noice bike btw :D

[F5 Dave]

Thanks guys. For those who don't know my last project bike here's a pic, it is a 750SP that has had a full makeover. Would like to keep it, we'll see how the finances go & how much I use it after the Gama is complete.

& I'm approaching that crisis age so figured I better do something about it now:innocent:

[Hitcher]

But. It's got a... chrome tank! (Said the Master of stating the fucking obvious)

[riffer]

That is going to be one mean mother when its finished.

How do you intend to control the likely frame flex Dave?

I'm gonna enjoy reading about this one.

[kiwisfly]

mmmmm.....shiny!
Bloody nice purchase chap. Have shitloads of fun!
Ahhhh memory's, 2 strokes with arse kicking power bands...mmmmmmmmmmm

[Skunk]

I'm jealous.

[riffer]

Me too.

Just like FatJim over PaulinNZ's bike.

Except my wife wouldn't be worried. She'd just laugh - as in "yeah right..."

[avgas]

Holy crap man.........I WANT THAT BIKE!!!!!
that is an orgasm on wheels.

[Nutter34]

I'm jealous.

:stupid:.......

[sels1]

two stroke road bikes......it has sparked a memory of 350 kwaka triple 2 smoke I once owned...nasty bucking beast that it was....(goes misty eyed...)

[Kickaha]

.
Trinity aftermarket monoblock top end with PVs, V Force reeds, nickasil plating & modern porting, head with replaceable domes 72mm bore.
7mm stroker billet crank

= 496cc of modern 2 stroke engine.

.

I think you should reconsider and go for the 610cc kit:yes:

[James Deuce]

He rides like a Nana though Kick. This thing's going to cost him a fortune in blackened plugs as it is.

[deanohit]

very nice bike mate. looking foward to seeing more of it

[Kickaha]

He rides like a Nana though Kick. This thing's going to cost him a fortune in blackened plugs as it is.



I've raced against Dave (well trailed round well behind him), Nana is certainly not how I'd describe his riding

[Skunk]

He takes it easy on the road I believe...

Pretty quick on his bucket though.

[James Deuce]

I've raced against Dave (well trailed round well behind him), Nana is certainly not how I'd describe his riding

He's merciless on a bucket.

He put FXR 150 headlights on the YZF. That should give you a good idea of just how fast he rides at night. Besides as a mate it is my duty to ridicule him because he hasn't gained an ounce of fat in 20 years and can manufacture a pocket bike from a 6 pack, using only a chewed fingernail as a "machine" tool.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I ended up with the 496 as less likely to vibrate as bad as the 535 I was originally considering. 610 would be silly & the rest of the engine gets a bit edgey after 100hp. I'm aiming for 90hp with a faat midrange. Weighing at ~ 140ish with empty tank should be quite entertaining.

Flexy frame? Well may consider bracing, but despite the enormous frames of modern bikes I think the main advances have come from stiffer forks & swingarms controlled by decent suspension. I don't think it is going to be too bad, but have some ideas if it is.

And yes I am slow on the road:scooter: but I'm having fun.


Spent last night cleaning out the callipers. Bike is littered with Titanium & ally fasteners.

[Kickaha]

Flexy frame? Well may consider bracing, but despite the enormous frames of modern bikes I think the main advances have come from stiffer forks & swingarms controlled by decent suspension.


I know of two instances where "frame flex" was fixed by buying decent rear shocks, so I reckon you're on the right track there

[F5 Dave]

Well the engine kit is being shipped today & they got the wrong quote for shipping so want another $100. Super. Budget already spiralling & wonder where the money is coming from.

[SuperDave]

Looks sick! Saw it up on rgv forums. Will keep an eye out for how your project comes along.

[ambler]

My rational is that one probably won’t be able to new register a 2 stroke in this increasingly worrisome cotton wool environment.

um... what? did I miss some new law?
So it's still ok to import used, but not new... ??

[F5 Dave]

No new law. . .yet. I'm pre-empting it. Vehicles are having to pass anti smoking test & this is heralding in the move to be more green. 2 strokes have a leniency clause as they of course wouldn't pass. But they are expecting most old bikes & cars to be off the road soon.

I believe that soon you won't be able to first time (or re-register a lapsed) vehicle that doesn't pass these tests or perhaps even a measured emission test that would be done at initial VIN test.

This is my theory only but looking at past performance & the greens having the ear of the govt I wouldn't bet against it.

[Mr. Peanut]

Oh hell yeah, nice machine!!

It's a dream of mine to one day make my own NSR500....

[F5 Dave]

I know someone who is making an RGV500 replica. Not just an RG500 in a RGV frame, but just the cases of an RG, dry clutch, TZ cranks I think, RGB gearbox, 4 YZ125 barrels & his own home made Shwantz replica frame. Mind boggling. Hope he finishes it. Looks very professional & littered with trick bits.:rockon:

Always thought a detuned NSR500V twin would be the business as a roadbike. They used to go well at Monaco.

[F5 Dave]

ok here's some mechanical porn for those afflicted. The kit just arrived.


Monoblock, 6 transfers, 3 ex, 2 boosts nickasil bore, Lick that billet crank. ports & inlets, Mechanical pressure operated power valve, replaceable dome head

[Sketchy_Racer]

mmmmmm
mm
m
mmmm
mm

Puuuurrrtyy

Damn you dave!! you've made RS look lame to me now!

[kiwi cowboy]

two stroke road bikes......it has sparked a memory of 350 kwaka triple 2 smoke I once owned...nasty bucking beast that it was....(goes misty eyed...)

dry the eyes theres one on trademe if that will cheer u up lol

[nudemetalz]

I'll be waiting for the first Youtube you'll make when you start her up....pleeeaase.....!!!! :yes:

(Distant memories of RZ500 ownership and also misty-eyed)

[Ivan]

Thats Awsome Dave

[Coyote]

610cc 2 stroke kit?! Tell me more

I have a fairly complete RG150 without a motor, 100hp on skinny tyres sounds like fun...

Nice looking bike, I'll be watching this thread

[riffer]

:drool:

this is gunna be good...

[riffer]

610cc 2 stroke kit?! Tell me more

I have a fairly complete RG150 without a motor, 100hp on skinny tyres sounds like fun...

I don't think you'd be able to control it Daniel.

The current 125 GP bikes are putting out about 55hp, 31Nm torque, in a bike weighing about 80kilos. The twin-spar chassis is made of aluminium, suspension is Öhlins front and rear, brakes are by Brembo, wheels are lightweight Marchesini units and the gearbox is a six-speed unit. Top speed is approximately 220km/hr.

You want to put nearly TWICE that much power into an RG150, even if you are weighing in at approximately 130kgs?

Okay in a straight line I suppose... although I'd probably want to ride it too LOL.

[Coyote]

I don't think you'd be able to control it Daniel.

The current 125 GP bikes are putting out about 55hp, 31Nm torque, in a bike weighing about 80kilos. The twin-spar chassis is made of aluminium, suspension is Öhlins front and rear, brakes are by Brembo, wheels are lightweight Marchesini units and the gearbox is a six-speed unit. Top speed is approximately 220km/hr.

You want to put nearly TWICE that much power into an RG150, even if you are weighing in at approximately 130kgs?

Okay in a straight line I suppose... although I'd probably want to ride it too LOL.
Yes it's stupid, most of my ideas are, but even you have shown some interest in wanting to ride such a beast :p

Considering it'll cost $6000 for the engine parts and then you'd have to pay for an original engine, I think it'll be unlikely that I'll be getting around to this project anytime soon. I'm only earning $60 a week, a third of that going into paying off a unreliable VFR and the rest going into feeding the gas and oil guzzling RG

[F5 Dave]

ok 6 weeks into the project & many nights in the garage. Got the seat/pegs/bars in the right position & sorted out the fairing mounts so the taller bars don't knock. Increased the ride height, steering angle now 23.5 degrees that should be enough to be getting on with.

35mm flatslides have arrived.
Time to do the engine
Here is the cases before I trench them to fit the stroked crank. The 2 cranks, note; on the new (upper) one the rods protrude a little. Last pic you can see where the metal needs to come from.

Also the barrels are bigger as they meet the cases so just got the cases bored to fit.

[F5 Dave]

Also came accross these little gems on Evil-bay. They fit into the side of the clutch cover. Very tasty, can also get the US flag or Rebel confederate flag. Yeehaw!

(OK I've had my laugh please don't litter the thread with other redneck tat).

[slowpoke]

I love the way things sort of happen at once.....here I am stuck at work escaping from reality by cruising around various KB, Yamaha, Ebay, Trade me (anyone got some Keihin FCR 41's?) sites.

First I saw the KB thread about deathtraps you've owned which got me thinking about RZ and RZ/LC bikes I've owned (RZ was great but RZ/LC was shite). Then someone mentioned on a Yamaha site how the Banshee is the same as an RZ donk which had my grey matter arcin' and sparkin', then I came across some banshee/RZ goodies on Ebay which really got me thinking.....then I see you've actually gone and put it all together and then some!
Awesome effort Dave, great to see someone doing more than just talking about it. Love the bike and can't wait to see/hear/smell the new incarnation.

[HenryDorsetCase]

presumably the stock cases are strong enough even after being trenched and bored?

what are you doing for a clutch and gearbox or are they strong enough?

[CM2005]

now thats some HARDCORE yamma Gamma right there!! Amazing! Did you get Junes Performance Bike mag? There's a couple of pages on them..
Post it on Here (http://www.pbmagforum.com)
Josh:rockon:

[F5 Dave]

Josh have a look I'm all over it. Also Hag's bike in the feature was an inspiration for this one, from the early 90s or whenever I had the pic on my wall.

Henry, the gearbox is up for it & I am not removing much from the cases. You have to remove much more for the 10mm over stroke, or the 14mm!

Clutches aren't too bad but there are kits to increase the pre-load or ideally the surface area with thinner but more plates. Investigating this. Drag applications can use lock-up clutch kits but 100hp is ok on stock clutch in good order & maybe some stiffer springs.

[CM2005]

Yeah found your thread.. the RGVbits make it look waaay modern and Cool! So a 100Horse 2smoke twin... I'm very jealous!!! Must've cost.... alot.

[F5 Dave]

Well my budget is to produce something for about the same as plonking down for a modern 600. Of course it will be worth no where near when I go to sell it, but that isn't the plan & I've had my SP best part of 10 years. Actually I don't want to sell the SP, it is still a grouse bike to ride. We'll see if I can finance this project. 2 buckets, 2 dirt bikes, 2 classic bikes to make one from, and then 3 roadbikes? Hmm. Still would like to keep the 750 but. . .

I spent thursday finishing off the case boring job with a die grinder. We couldn't bore right the way down without taking a bunch from the transfer sides. Also the cases needed matching to the barrels as with 3 transfers per side instead of two they are a bigger entry. This took ages but it fits now.

Dropped the engine cases down to a shop with instructions for the trenching. Really needs a boring machine. Dropped the frame down to Damon to do some frame bracing. Have dummied up the frame with some bars clamped to it & tried to remove the engine. If I take the head off it can be modified quite a bit. Should be hella strong afterwards.

Now it is looking a little sad, with the frame & engine out there was just the front end strapped forlornly to the bench & a few small piles of components, an odd wheel etc.

Was a good excuse to get into the dirtbike maintenance on sunday.

Anyway progress progress.

[CM2005]

awesome, good to heard. I've had a bit of progress, managed to get the motor back in my GP125 and it started 6th kick yesterday. Should be back at Mt Welly buckets after 3 rounds off, i'll have to re-learn my tarmac riding "style".

[McDuck]

bump? hows it going?

[F5 Dave]

Well time for an update I guess, but had hoped for some pics of real progress.

A large period of inactivity at the welding/machining front. I got a call to say they were setting up the cases for boring the trenches on sat. Haven't heard, expected yesterday.

Went to see bracing frame. Looks good so far, maybe finished todayish. I'm off down south till next week so it will be more inactivity I'm afraid.

I have rebuilt the brakes again & they feel better with the new seals (9 weeks wait). & I've gotten a new loom, sadly it will need a lot more work, but is a better starting point. I've gotten the pipe design & made some templates from No.8 wire so I can plan where they pipes will run.

Barrels & head have been painted.

So the big items to go are Pipes, Airbox & mount ZXR radiator. All of which needs the frame to fit up to. Summer approacheth.

[F5 Dave]

Well we lost the last update in the great KB crash of August so here is a bit of a catchup:

Well progress is slow but steady. Here’s what she looks like currently. The thermostat arrangement & filler for the ZX4 radiator is after a bunch of trials quite neat. Esp as the ign coils, remote fuel tap, & electronics have to live up there. Maybe in the new loom I’ll extend CDI & Rec/reg down the rear.

Just at the bottom of the hose attached to the head is the vertical outlet that I turned up. It’s a thing of beauty and I’m a little bit proud of it. At this stage I have to admit that I’m new to this lathe stuff having only bought my ancient Sheldon a few months back. Now I have it I don’t know how I coped without it and am glad I have it for this project.

The std kit outlet is right angle points forward. They don't run a thermostat and I needed a remote filler. For a roadbike this wasn't a flier so needed a solution, I ended up with a FZR250 housing & will fit the std RZ thermostat which will fit with a bit of grinding. It is 71 deg which is a little hot, can use a RZ500 one which is 65deg. tested them against each other in a pot with a dig temp gauge. They are quite accurate & start to open at stated temp, aren't fully open for another 15 degrees though, but this probably isn't an issue. The R1 dash will display temp in deg so will be able to monitor it.

This is the airbox dummy. Minutes after this photo & sanded it down so it actually looks pretty good rather than the abomination it appears here, but you get the drift. Of course then it needed some more filling & more sanding to come. Ho-Hum, some things can’t be rushed. Then I can lay the fibreglass. I am concerned that the box is very narrow & will be a squeeze to get the manifolds in, but if I make it wider it won’t extract out of the frame.

[F5 Dave]

This project is a bit embarrassing taking so long, but I have a new house that needs (according to the wife) gardening stuff done (though she’s good & does most of it). + other projects that need attention. My Bucket 125 I’m fettling for a race at Ruapuna (other island of NZ) end of the month. Aircooled 125 with class 24mm carb restriction slotted into an ancient RS125 GP chassis. Also the roadbike that needs to be ridden in the nice spring weather we’ve been having lately. YZF750SP with restyle, Aprillia tailpiece, race fairings, R1 brakes, suspension kits both ends & 20kg carved off it by fastidious attn to detail.

Also there is the Touring bike, the Dirtbike & the Trials bike (that I had been working on the brakes so had to go ‘test’ it in the weekend.
My T125 Stinger restoration project hasn't had a spanner on it, although I am collecting more parts.

Be aware when undertaking projects that they take up a lot more time than you ever image. You have to be focussed & forgo TV & other distractions, but you still need to account for sanity time else you burn out on the project.

List getting shorter. Time to firing it up getting closer.

[jonbuoy]

Only just seen this, thats going to be one mental bike. You decided on fairings yet?

[McDuck]

could i have a go when it is back on the road? Please???

[F5 Dave]

Well currently it has the top & tail fairing as in first pic. I might look at if the rest of the sides fit, but I kinda like it the way it is. Ideally I'll save up & get Carbon replicas to match the front guard & rear hugger.

[F5 Dave]

Ok well here is the airbox almost complete. With a coat of paint it came up alright. The manifolds are from some old GS airbox. The filter is ZXR750, currently just sitting there but I will rivet in some angle ally so it doesn’t fall in.

Fitted the airbox blends in, yes I know the carb isn’t fully home, just I don’t have the reedblock fitted on that side. Tank is a bit smudgy from greasy fingerprints. Fitting the remote fueltap with the bracing & the airbox is proving very difficult; I don’t want it to be a mission every time the tank wants to come off. So I will try match up a tap that can sit directly on the tank.

[F5 Dave]

Well another update:

Got the frame back painted and began the final build. It is at this point where you have to take some time to sort out those niggley items else they remain forever, or at least put them on the list of scheduled maintenance. For instance I noted the steering head races had some witness marks. Not enough to feel with the fingernail so I cleaned them up but it is on the list for next time I drop the front out to revalve the forks for instance (Race Tech kitted but who knows until I try it).

Had to rivet the VIN plate onto the headstock, it was removed to do the bracing, but there was little room so I did the best I can. The rest of the bike looks pretty clean with the new frame plate & really they will just be checking that the numbers on the frame on the other side match up.

I fired the rear end back in & fitted the footrests on their painted but still temporary hangers until I determine the final footrest position.

Engine didn't want to go in so easily this time in an attempt to scratch the newly painted frame. Finally got it in & fitted the head & PVs, reedblocks & water inlets properly this time. The tube to the case was a bit of a bugger, the bend making it hard to fit between the monoblock. Given time I should have made another tube but I impatiently reformed it. I hope this doesn't leak into the gbox. Sadly I couldn't complete this as the o-ring I had was too fat. Also I trialled some stiffer clutch springs I had from my YZF, sadly they bound. I might just buy the FZR plates for more surface area. May also lengthen clutch actuation lever for lighter pull.

oh yeah the 27cc heads measured up as 12.3:1 compression on the 496, 96 octane should be ok.

I'll leave the rad off until the pipes are done & concentrate on the wiring.

Ah yes the pipes, my friend in South Africa is apparently working on them from info I've supplied so I'll get them in kitset form. Time is ticking on though & the weather is getting better.

[imdying]

Hawt :drool:

[F5 Dave]

Well some have asked if any more progress & instead of lying (yeah it was great but I sold it to finance an Emu farm) here is the truth for anyone who cares (as opposed to the masses who can't understand why the heck I didn't just buy an R6. . . they may well be right:blank:).

Well another month fairly kumara’d & weather here is getting real nice and the Christmas rush is starting meaning if I want to get the bike finished & rego’d & certified before the holidays I am pushing it.

The real hold up is the pipes. My friend in S.Africa is busy as all heck but promised to get things moving & send some autocad files so I can print out the sections & tape them up to see if they fit before he makes them. Another call tonight I think.

Plan B is I can put the original pipes on with some adaptors & certify rego it like that. Problem is that they are a little small in the stinger & muffler section. No really ideal for a big engine to run too small stinger lest piston overheating could occur, although some mitigation with fat jetting & retarded ignition until I get the pipes finished.

So why haven’t I got everything else finished?

Ok so Friday night a mate had come around & we were trying to work out the rear wheel & chain run. Now the sw & wheel is straight VJ22 RGV swap so should be fine. But the wheel is dragging & the chain rubs against the tyre. After a bit of pissing around with a straightedge it appears that the wheels aren’t entirely in line. When we did the welding the guy did ask if I’d checked the alignment & I embarrassedly assumed that it was ok from the last guy who built it. Maybe it wasn’t.

At about 1am after a few beers & many different approaches with string etc all we had determined was my straight edge was no longer straight (incident retrieving a remote control plane from a very tall tree). And that the string method is pretty inaccurate. So I still don’t really know but I suspect that the steering head is off to the right a little bit. Maybe I will take it to a chassis adjusting chap up the island at some stage, but should be close enough for the time being. Must buy another straight edge.

But it appears that the sprocket needs some more spacing out.

Last night I find myself at home with a reheated dinner & the wife out having dinner & drinks with the girlies from work. Perfect garage time. Yet I am slumped on the couch & tragically end up watching Biker Buildoff. - What a bunch of Plonkers! Most of them are assembling pre-built frames & engines & the most technical they get is sheet-metal fabricating the tank. OK fair enough I couldn’t do that, but they don’t seem to encounter any of the issues special builders seem to.

Screw these losers, into the Garage. . . Only to spend the next 20min searching for my 3/8 rachet with 8mm hex drive that I last used in the weekend on a friend’s Ducati. Call friend, no idea, doesn’t have it or anything. Where the smeg is it? Txt to pick up wife. Oh dear, I don’t suppose. .

Oh, opps! I was using it, try in the bucket with my gardening tools. Your what?!! Sure enough along with a 12mm spanner. I struggle for a min trying to think what the heck she was. . , nah - then I resolve to never, ever find out.

OK so I space the sprocket out a bit more & the chain is now clear the tyre & seemingly straight run (must be quite close on RGV). But as can see it is now very close to the skinner RG frame. A thinner chain would be nice, but this is quite a thin one, even for o-ring. Also the chain plastic SW guide has a runner on it that isn’t in the right place so it kicks the chain left & right, I’ll take that down & that will help.

The wheel is no longer binding; the bearing inner spacer was loose so the bearing needed another seating whack. Nice.

So back onto the wiring. (It looks worse than it is, I’ve still to black tape some areas & still have labels on in case I need to fault find some areas) I’d mounted the battery outside the frame in a cut down battery box & have been working my way through the loom. The problem is that I am using a switch block of some misc DT & don’t have the wiring diagram for it. I ditched the RH switch block as I needed a quick pull throttle for the 35mm carbs & ended up with an NSR250 one that with it’s linkage carbs makes a good straight pull throttle. But it doesn’t have a light switch or a kill switch. I got an NSR kill switch but decided to use this all controls left hand side.

The fun & games began, but the upshot is I got everything worked out with screw connectors & then after a few false starts as I worked out the power feeds from various things like indicator relays etc joined the wires together properly. I have worked out that the RZ has the tail light positively switched so you can use the ignition switch to turn the park light on. But the DT used negative switch & as the HI/LO is in the same block I can’t just connect the Rear light to the headlight cct. So I found another switched feed & used that. The rear light will be on all the time the ign is on & so be it. Ohh look it’s 1am again. Time for sleep.

So I’ve now got the R1 Dash all connected, the last drama was the headlight Hi beam was marked in a different colour on the diagram, but we got there. The tacho is connected to the ignition so should work (need to start bike to confirm if I need a filter) & the Speedo sensor wiring is correct (tested both tacho & speedo with a signal generator). But it appears the geartooth sensor I got was duff so I ordered an R1 one from Evilbay for the princely sum of US$9. Shipping was $14.

You know if I could make the pipe adaptors up I could fire it up this weekend.

But then I have a race on Sunday & the racebike needs a set of rings fairly desperately & the wheel needs putting back on & new clutch cable fitting + the dirtbike needs filter doing, when did the SP last get an oil change?
[sigh].

[imdying]

the masses who can't understand why the heck I didn't just buy an R6What? They started putting real motors into R6s? I thought they were all four strokes... :second:

[F5 Dave]

So last night fooling around having sorted the speedo sensor I fitted the flywheel & side cover. I then figured I could jam some packer in the adapters I made up for the old pipes & bolt them in place to see what it would be like if I had to fit the old pipes for a while.

Erm, why not start it? Ok says I wondering why I'm talking to myself & more than a little concerned how easily lead I am. So check for spark. Check. Check Kill switch works. Opps, hmm, turn off ign switch, kick, blue spark, ok hmm, that's right there was another kill wire on the CDI, plug that in to a temp switch & resolve to fix that later. Ohh, better put in some gearbox oil. Decide not to fit radiator, will only run for a few seconds.

Pour in some gas, choke on, 2nd kick sounds interested. Fires on 3rd kick.:2thumbsup Waahooo!

:eek5: BWAAAAA Sounds like no powervalve Elsie. Sounds. . .Bigger. Scary even.

It's at this stage of the project one needs an encouragement. Oh yeah the tacho works but jumps around a tickle, I might put a filter in.


But the evil bit is on the radio this morning I heard that from Jan they will be emission testing all imported vehicles. This donor bike I brought in from Aus in July & I haven't registered it yet as it needs certification to get a VIN. But that means it needs to be fully functional. Oh dear the time pressure has gotten very real else this whole project is for naught!

[imdying]

Oh dear the time pressure has gotten very real else this whole project is for naught!Not at all mate, you can always sell it to me... I've absolutely no problem at all running it around on plates that don't belong to it... if the pen pushers wanna be dicks about it, then that's fine, they'll get no money from my rego and vin cause I won't bother :2thumbsup

[F5 Dave]

Yeah but if you got caught they'd probably charge you with a special Crimes Against Sue Bradford act.:blank:

[gijoe1313]

Excellent! Another two-stroker lives and breathes and will be able to damage the ozone layer of the Earth! :niceone: Sounds like you'll be working on it even more to get the compliance details done ASAP!

Piccies?

[imdying]

Let them charge away... it wouldn't stop me doing it, and it wouldn't stop me doing it again either! Basically, am I willing to risk chalking up a grands worth of fines in an arvo for riding a 2 stroke monster, yes, yes I am :yes:

[F5 Dave]

Yeah well in the local rag the Police were doing a Drink Driving Blitz & there was some chap picked up twice over the limit & was Ninth time?!! Another his 12th!!

But I'd be more of a target. More likely to pay the fines.

[imdying]

To be honest, I can't see any cop figuring out that I wasn't riding an RGV like the plate says it should be on :lol: I'd take that risk :yes:

[F5 Dave]

Well only just.

As the dusk slowly overtook the preceding day, it was with a brave but weathered hand that the pilot approached the machine in question.

Nah. . .it was more like had dinner & went to see if it was still holding water. Hmm, bit of a dribble, but that could have been from filling it. Add the gear oil again. Hmm, maybe I could ride it. You know just in case there is something to learn. . .

The Left pipe had gotten hotter than the right the first couple of times I started it & the R1 tacho was dancing around erratically (erotically?). I cleaned the plug & swapped it from left to right side.

So with the old 350 pipes which are really too small & would be dangerous to the pistons (stinger is 21mm) if caning it, I attached the fairing front & put the tank on. Hmm, instruments, would be good to see if they all work. Cable tied them on in a hurry. Opened door, getting darker, hmm, wheel bike out, clutch cable bashes instruments, oh well don’t do any u-turns.

Can’t reach choke with tank on, have to make a cable & a pull ring. Started bike anyway. Very rich off idle which probably helped. Both pipes heat up the same.

& we’re off!!:wari:

Off out the drive & to the very tight & twisty roads behind my house that connect 2 suburbs. No one drives this way, it is really an afterthought of 1 & 2nd gear corners. But ideal for just pottering along. As long as I don’t have to turn back as I can’t turn around. Never thought of that, oh well.

Tacho is working fine as is speedo. Lights on, dark visor up. Riding pos seems ok, maybe a bit taller than expected, footpegs a bit far back, erm, no maybe ok. Bike blubbing like a 20 a day smoker underwater. Pilot jets obviously not even in ballpark. So much for prejetted big bore carbs.

Finally got to the more open area, but never got out of 3rd. Didn’t want to cane it, this is just a shakedown, or more likely a shake up run to see what else needs attn. Front brakes start to work. New dust seals made a big diff, but still have new genuine pads to go in. Seems to turn properly now steering angle ok. Good. Feels like a small light bike. Also good.

Temp goes up to past 70 pretty quickly, but that is the std 70 something deg RZ thermo so expected. RZ500 is 65 deg so will find one of those unless I can get a 60 in the same size. I know you can get them for RG500s, not sure if same. Never goes much past 80 deg. First time run in slow area with restrictive pipes.

Bike seems smooth on the needle but blubbers so much on the way up there it never really clears out for more than a sec in this environment, never get on the mainjet. Vibration doesn’t seem like an issue, a bit vibey on the closed throttle but not intrusive. Hope stays smooth up the rev range.

Back home. So impressed? . . . Erm, no not really. There is no way it is running well enough to see what it goes like. The only time it came close was for a brief second on the return when it decided to clear out momentarily when it found a dip in the road & ‘Yumped’ off it with a hint of the violence it should be capable off. Just as well, the back brake stopped working properly.

Back in garage. Close door & start planning the rest of the job before the next ride.

This is not really a ride report. This is how many specials get finished, a mish-mash of dangerous half way bodges & never running properly. But this is not where this one finishes. This is merely a step along the way.:cool:

[F5 Dave]

Well the plan was to be ready for November. Predictably it is almost Christmas & it is not all done yet. Mainly I am waiting for the pipes. The mufflers will be done soon, but there is no chance I will be riding a completed bike before the end of January. Glad I haven’t sold the YZFSP so still have a sportbike. That only leave 2 months of summer.

Obviously the pipes are just hung there for trials, too small to really use. Footpegs are mounted on temp plates so I can re-drill & move if I want.

But there has been some good progress. I think I can finally say the wiring is complete. I have mounted the dash, (although I will weld some captive nuts when I have some time to take the fairing off).

The indicators now go again. They stopped working after I fitted the legal indicators (instead of the nasty faux carbon ones). This was due to the small flasher relay of my old RG50. A $6 car one fixed the issue. Although when I tried it they were a bit dim. Hello why are 3 going? Oh that’s right; Andy ‘helped’ yesterday by plugging the indicator in (to both L&R feeds instead of an earth) while I was doing up the fairing mounts. Quick replug & the proper amount on the correct side & illumination was restored.

I have been emailing back & forward measurements & templates for the headers/D1 so we have that nailed. Now it is just the rest of the Diffuser/dwell/baffle to sort & make

Quick list of tasks to do:
Reweld upper fairing stay & mount mirrors
Replace chain
Make a speedo healer or get lazy & buy one
Route wiring a bit neater around the front.
Get pipes as kitset & mig in place then get a decent welding job.
Replace tyres.
Get certified & then rego’d.
End of part 1

Longer range:
Redo paintwork.
Make fairing stays & subframe out of ally. -Man the original RGV stuff is heavy. Ideally I would like to get carbon fairings & junk the heavy std headlight.
Make footpeg hangers
Alloy kickstarter
Various odds & ends, ally frame bungs etc
All sorts of stuff I can work on instead of watching TV.

[Paul in NZ]

Wow - thats looking very ring-a-ding-bling.

Very cool....

[F5 Dave]

The very slow progress is largely down to the lack of pipes. It is getting a bit depressing with summer ticking by. Other projects & Dirtbike & racebike maintenance have had to be addressed. I’ve even been pruning trees so the lovely wife has some more sunshine. Some of this has been due to slow progress making motivation harder. This is how some projects falter & stall a lot earlier on.

Ok so some more pleading calls to pipe guy, but it has given me some time to evaluate the bike with the 350 pipes on it.

The urge has taken me to lower the seat unit some more, it got jacked up when the rear ride height was raised. I lowered it but I still found myself sliding forward on the test ride + it felt a tickle high.

Out with the saw & welder. Ok now it feels lower, but as I assemble the bike I realise it looks like the tailpiece has been sat on & the bike looks bent in the middle. Hmm, but form should follow function. Erm. Can we have both? The frame at the end supporting the redundant pillion section could be bent up & the seat unit would rotate & only the rear of the RGV seat would have to bend to meet it. Out with the long bar. Yes, it works.

The bike now feels much lower & so I now have to move the bars down from their elevated position.

Quick change of the size down pilot jet & advance the timing back to std position.

Time for a ride. As it is getting to dusk I set off again. Bike starts to warm. It is running crisper but still too rich. No point going for perfection as the new pipes will change everything. Riding position is now right in the ballpark, clipons need a tweek (fully adjustable) & will reserve judgement on the footpegs until a longer ride.

The bike steers well & feels smaller & more flickable. This will be great fun.
R1 Dash reads super low & it feels eerie to approach corners at 34kph & it is too fast. Must make a cct to adapt input pulses.

Maybe I can pop over to a mate’s to show it off? Nah dumb idea. Finish it first.

Burble back to home. A good night’s work.


As an aside I’ve just ordered a programmable ignition from it from Zeeltronics. This should make the midrange stand out even more.

Here is a pic of the cockpit. Oh yeah the upper fairing mounts are just cable tied at pres. I need to straighten up the fairing mount block attached to the frame, needs a bit of metal removed to align straight. (Pic taken on bench so appears a bit far from ground). Oh dear I’m seeing the odd bracket that needs a clean up & paint. Details to be finished.

Maybe I’ll have the pipes next? Maybe.

[yod]

great write ups mate - following this with interest
:niceone:

[FilthyLuka]

very nice man, very nice. Are you gonna keep the chrome tank? I don't think it suits the bike...

oh man, my 2c :crybaby: its gone

[F5 Dave]

Pipe kit arrived after a long & arduous wait. Question is how will they fit? May try to take the arvo off & go try them on the bike. Then off to get them welded up better than I could hope to with my dodgy welder.

There is a bit of surface rust that will scotch off & to the uninitiated the welds look funny, but the headers are seamlessly hydraulically formed & the rest of the cones have flat welds & are impeccable on the inside join. Nice!

There are a couple of options on the left for fit.

I will probably get them HPC coated.

[F5 Dave]

ok so I scampered off home & taped them together & came up with a reasonable result. There were a couple of options but this seemed the best compromise. I want to keep front wheel clearance ok & cornering clearance. But ultimate ground clearance will suffer a bit, should be ok if I don't try to ride off too many gutters.

I can try to angle these up a tickle more to move up the lowest point. But the constraints are that these are fat as 250cc & long as they are roadbike revs. Yes the headers come down quite a way, the optional headers don't & curve around tighter, but they push the rest of the pipe too far back for a short bike.

The right pipe is pretty simple but the left one curves around pretty well. A good fit considering they were made on the other side of the world.

So off I head to the local pipe guy to get them welded up, fit mufflers etc. I've been lining this up for weeks, before Christmas even. But sadly the place was packed with bikes so I have to go back & drop it off tuesday before he can even start to look at it. [sigh].

Summer is running out. I kinda knew this would happen.

[Deviant Esq]

Phwoar. Those pipes exit pretty durn close to the rear tyre and to your right boot, once it's on the footpeg... that wouldn't cause any problems?

Otherwise, :corn: Watching with interest, looking forward to seeing the mostly finished result! I say mostly because, at the end of the day, what project is ever completely finished?

[F5 Dave]

Yeah it was always going to b a tight fit around the back of the linkage but the parallax in the last picture makes it look closer than it really is to the rear tyre (that is currently pushed right forward to be worst case scenario).

The exit stingers that will be attached to the ends of the cones will snake out but will be behind the line level with the master cylinder, (left pipe in the s/w scallop) you'd have to push your heels in to touch them.

Will use the extra time to fit a new chain & some grips, maybe program a couple of curves in the ignition. The hugger & new tyres are not fitted in case they got damaged tacking the pipes or something.

[madbikeboy]

Hi Dave, I've been reading your posts with interest. A while ago you made the comment that people can't understand why you'd build a special instead of a proddie R6. I get where you're coming from. I've never been good with out of the box stuff. I find myself messing with stuff, trying to improve the mass production shortcut approach.

I've got a GSXR1000 that's had a reasonable amount of work done to it, and I have a CBX1000 that's had everything refined and rebuilt "done correctly". Bikes are transport, but they're on a higher plane than that, you get an emotional and visceral connection with a bike that you can't get with cars.

I used to build show cars for a living, we won a bunch of trophies, but actually, I enjoy working on bikes more. I'm doing the math of building a supermono - I don't even care if I can't race it, it just seems that this is where all the shed thinking is - you can't buy it, so you have to build it instead.

Full circle back to the point. Reading your posts make me reconnect with being a biker, I like the fact that you're building your RGV500, and I'm enjoying the posts with the level of detail that you're writing with. I dislike the 95% of the way stage, and it's always the toughest bit finishing - so I guess I'm just trying to give you some encouragement.

MBB.

Rutherford - We didn't have money, so we had to think instead...

[F5 Dave]

Cheers man, yeah I am finding I am getting less & less interested in the results of the 600 magazine shootout every year. Had to happen one day I guess.

I also decided that I wanted a light bike. With exciting power. But not mega powerful. (Don't trust myself with a 1000).

It's the waiting for the bits I can't do that is the drag. Here we are in the final & spectacular throws of the best summer I can remember & I'm waiting for the pipes to be welded (better than I could with my nasty mig). Following that they will get sent to be HPC plated. 1.5 week turn around. [sigh] Still then I can dyno it to select a baseline for the jetting & programmable ignition & then it will be change the tyres that just arrived & rego.

Waahoo! Hopefully.

[madbikeboy]

Cheers man, yeah I am finding I am getting less & less interested in the results of the 600 magazine shootout every year. Had to happen one day I guess.

I also decided that I wanted a light bike. With exciting power. But not mega powerful. (Don't trust myself with a 1000).

It's the waiting for the bits I can't do that is the drag. Here we are in the final & spectacular throws of the best summer I can remember & I'm waiting for the pipes to be welded (better than I could with my nasty mig). Following that they will get sent to be HPC plated. 1.5 week turn around. [sigh] Still then I can dyno it to select a baseline for the jetting & programmable ignition & then it will be change the tyres that just arrived & rego.

Waahoo! Hopefully.

I don't trust myself on a thou either, but I own two... Never been the top of the class you see.

So, a small update. Your posts got me thinking about building a special. So my fiscal imprudence is entirely your fault. I bought a Honda RS125, the intention is to build a supermono race bike. The RS125 is lighter than Paris Hilton's brain matter, and I did the math on fitting a CRF450 single. It'll fit. The issue is that I've bought an RS with a load of very good brand new spares. New cranks, head, clutches, and an entire new gearbox... Oh, and a box full of gaskets, seals, bearings...


Oh, the dilemma...

[F5 Dave]

Must be a 95+, would never fit into a 94. My 91 & 89 are also super small compared with 95, the seat to peg relationship are much more cramped, I had to move my seat up to be able to ride it. Long ago thought of putting a CR250 into a 125, but never got around to it & now wouldn't be competitive. I have bucket engines in both of mine & even they don't want to fit (95s got bigger in engine area as well). Hmm, must get some newer forks & a wheel some time.

Biggest issue will be carburettor to tank interface & vibration.

[F5 Dave]

Well pipes back. Had to gasp at the price, but one thing you learn is things end up taking a lot longer that you naively think. i think one of the big lessons of projects is that they aren't for the faint of wallet. At times you just have to take a deep breath & forge on.

Still I am well happy with the result. My concerns for clearance were listened to & the fitting has maximised it in all directions. Will be mighty fine.

Muffler mounting will be painted black to make it fade into distance a bit, but this is a road bike I do want it to hold together. O-rings fitted to back of header fitting so it shouldn't weep spooge onto the front of the bike, they are a tight fit as well.

Would love to start it. Sadly they are off to the platers today. 2nd hand pipes attract a cleaning charge so I'll just have to be a bit more patient. So be it.

[vifferman]

Wow! That's looking very good, Dave! :niceone:
It's gonna be a cracker when it's finished. :yes:

[madbikeboy]

Must be a 95+, would never fit into a 94. My 91 & 89 are also super small compared with 95, the seat to peg relationship are much more cramped, I had to move my seat up to be able to ride it. Long ago thought of putting a CR250 into a 125, but never got around to it & now wouldn't be competitive. I have bucket engines in both of mine & even they don't want to fit (95s got bigger in engine area as well). Hmm, must get some newer forks & a wheel some time.

Biggest issue will be carburettor to tank interface & vibration.

There's a crowd called Tigcraft - bascially you strip all the running gear, swap the beam frame for their nifty tube jobby, and then it's a case of slotting in the new motor.

The hard bit (apon a bit of reflection) is finding a big single... Anyone crashed a CRF450 lately??

[F5 Dave]

Well there has been some progress, but I am in some doubt where it leaves me. Let’s just say it hasn’t been as plain sailing as I’d hoped it would be.

Ok so have the pipes back from plating & run it on the dyno.

Here’s a list of the things that went wrong:
Stator plate came loose & bent the pulser coil ending spark & the day. The slotted stator can only easily run 2 screw, but the screw on the bike were a bit short & vibrated out. (replaced longer sprung washered allen bolts).
Dyno didn’t want to read revs & the R1 tacho stopped working.

Next day got it going again. Tacho seemed to work (just) with stock ign but not with programmable Zeeltronics.
Got to dyno & the carbs were overflowing. Spend ½ an hour sorting that out. Learnt a good way to get the airbox seated in the process so was worth the time (basically the bell mouths didn’t want to seat in the airbox manifolds easily so undid the inlet manifolds & worked them back individually & then once both in pushed the pair forward).
Ok do a run or so. Bike running really badly farting about. Try the next size jets down (160s). Better I think but not flash.

Oh dear, this is where I start to run out of jets this small (had borrowed some Keihin jets but the selection was as bad as my own, almost wishing for Mikunis at this stage).

Ok so the next run & took the airfilter out & it was running better. Took the airbox off & better still. Oh dear, hoping the airbox wasn’t going to be a restriction. Other thing was the clutch would often slip like crazy making a consistent run pretty damn hard. When it did go it went like a wild thing.

Hmm [rummages around jet box] ok so best I can do for next size down is 150 & 152 (Kei jets go 150, 152, 155, 158, 160) so I’d be running mismatched jets from left to right & 4 steps down. Hardly ideal. Put the airbox back on. Bike loved it. Still running real crappy at low revs & revs a little higher than I wanted. Tried without airfilter, better still. Without airbox better still.
Trimmed the intake trumpets from the manifolds (was using 4 stroke inlet manifolds from a GS1000 box) & then the airbox runs matched the no airbox runs. The airbox wasn’t really a restriction, it just didn’t like those trumpets.

Ok next jet change is worse & I only have a 145 to mix with the 150. Runs slightly worse. We’ve reached a point it appears. With air filter back in it equalises with the best runs so far. So it would appear I’d need a pair of 150s or 148s I’d guess. Of course I had neither pair so that will have to wait.

Bike is sounding better, but clutch still slipping, often negating runs. Hardly ideal but got a bit easier if I tested in 6th so did for all later runs. Doesn’t want to take full throttle below 7000 rpm. Revs like crazy.

Ok so it appears that the carbs are so rich down low that they are loading up the engine so it doesn’t want to clear till higher revs. I try adjusting the needles but don’t have the right tool to do it. Feel foolish for not bringing enough tools.

Try adjusting the static angle with the ignition (push a few buttons). Had been running RZ350 31k curve. The curve shifts back a few hundred revs. Cool.

Try a few other curves but the jetting in the mid position is screwing things up enough to make it a waste of time. Until I get this sorted there isn’t much point continuing. While runs are usually conducted at full throttle, if the bike won’t pull cleanly into full then it buggers it up until it clears out affecting the run at medium revs.

Ok so I have a few things to fix before I continue the tuning stage. While I am there I try to get the speedo to go. Ok it goes, but is way out of calibration. I’d bought a Jaycar kit to recalibrate it. It has many options to suit different vehicles, but maybe the R1 doesn’t buy it. Maybe I’ll have to shell out for the proper speedo healer [sigh, more money]

The final indignity is the gear linkage rattles off. End of day.

The story so far (on 95 oct pumpgas, can't always get 98 where I ride) is 96bhp rear wheel on a conservative dynojet with no correction on a humid day. Was hoping to touch 100 but the Mickey Mouse efforts above may account for a few more I’d say. About double what a std 350 would do on the same dyno. Ignore the shape of the curve, it only really cleared out ~ 8500, it didn't really gain 80hp in 500rpm, until I can dial in some decent runs at lower revs it isn't the full story.

Got to sort clutch, jetting, tacho & gear lever. Wondering if the pipes may be too short. Haven’t ridden it yet but would be mental until I get it running properly in the midrange/mid throttle position. So, more work to do. Daylight savings finished Sunday. Was that the end of summer? Maybe we’ll get a nice autumn/mild winter.

[vifferman]

Pipes look great, Dave! :niceone:

What's the problem with the Jaycar speedo corrector kit? I fitted one to the VFR, and had no problems. The biggest thing was finding out what sort of output the speedo sensor produced, then working out which wire in the loom to snip to connect the corrector to. Worked really well once I'd got that sussed, but I couldn't be fagged getting an exact figure to correct it by, so just used a "best guesstimate" based on reported inaccuracies other VFR owners had (6%), plus 6% for the lowered gearing.

Anyway, all the best. I hope you get the jetting and other stuff sorted.

[F5 Dave]

Hmm, interesting - some experience with the Jaycar kit.

Well the speedo is driven off a sender that usually goes into an R1 gearbox, but instead I've aimed it at a the output sprocket as it was easier to get to. Works the speedo fine, just it was out as there aren't the same amount of teeth & rear wheel (tyre) size. Shows about 30 k when doing 60.

So I fed the signal into the box, & I know which one it is because I used it to drive the speedo with a signal generator to see that the speedo works. (thinks, maybe I've mixed up the wires in a rewire & I'm interrupting speedo earth, must recheck). Anyways the kit instructions say when setting up & links removed that the speedo won't work but the LED will flash if it is receiving the signal. Mine doesn't flash but the speedo remains working (LED does work later in test).

Did yours stop working at the start like it said it should? Maybe I should recheck I have interrupted the right wire & haven't transposed it.

[F5 Dave]

The speedo calibrator issue. It turns out I'm a turkey. When rewiring the bike extensively I had everything going & then bought the speedo calibrator kit. There was this bullet connector I'd used for the signal so it was an easy bypass to use for the calibrator. But the calibrator never seemed to work properly. Just wouldn't adjust at all. All a bit uncertain that I'd not screwed up the PCB assembly somehow, although that would be embarrassing.
Of course in my haste for plugging it in I hadn't traced the wire back (no colour chart when you do this many mods). I was trying to calibrate the tacho input, not the speedo one. Doh! Made a suitable bypass & now the speedo calibrator works fine & I can adjust the speed up & down. Felt silly.

So reconnected tacho wire back in. But now the tacho doesn't work now. Shizensomething! Oh well tomorrow. How I haven't fried it, but the voltage levels shouldn't have been particularly high.

[Slingshot]

Looks like this wee project is coming along nicely...can't wait to see it in the flesh.

[F5 Dave]

The tacho works. I fed a signal generator into it & it was fine. Then I put the old ignition on & it worked if a little jumpy.

Then the new ignition & it didn't. But the dash would reset if I grabbed the front brake with the bike not running. Hmm, battery voltage is real low. Oh dear. Obviously the programmable ignition is sucking a bit of current (heard they do, they need a battery feed) & perhaps the tacho can't compete. Charging battery now, but must also check charging cct. It was working ok before, but. . .

[F5 Dave]

Well another quick update, I've had very little time spare & it is easy to get disheartened when results don't fall in your lap after such graft for so long.
Other projects seem appealing. I’ve taken on a new racebike that is on ‘loan’, but I’ve found a raft of things I need to do to make it ride better.

Long story short I've got the 500 'getting there' this weekend.

I only had one set of leaner needles to experiment with, but they didn't really help. ok so after farting around with several combinations of needle & pilot (often have to trial with diff options when you change needle diameter) I decided that it now felt too lean at low throttle (felt stuttery & unwilling rather than blubbery), yet clearly it was still rich & pouring out spooge. Hmm. Had a think & thought maybe I'm throwing too much advance at it, so programmed in a flat curve not too far from stock static. (Zeeltronics programmable ignition, every RZ or RGV should have, quite cheap too).

Viola! It liked it. Even convinced it to idle, took it for a ride & now it's much better, not perfect, but it was so far from perfect it was a vast step in the right direction. Felt silly for wasting too much time & chasing jetting when it was the timing for some part of it. I’d been using the 31k curve & advanced it on the dyno for the full throttle tests. However the jetting down low was so far off as I got the carbs I hadn’t noticed the timing change there.

As an aside getting the tank on & off it a pig with the braced frame. OK when don't have to do it very often. So what I did was make a temp tank from an old 2 stroke oil res cable tied to the fairing stay & an inline tap. Makes it a damn site easier. Pity getting to the idle mixture screws is still a pain.

So it runs ok at idle but 1/8-1/4 is a bit messy then cleans up & runs quite well. Exciting even. I changed back to the stock needles & it kinda liked them more ½ throttle on & wasn’t that much worse low down. So still some sorting to do, would like some larger dia needles with a sharper taper to try next. My test track is some pretty tight windy roads but there are a couple of straights further on & boy it does get up & boogie, but only for a few sec until have to slow down.

Sadly I have to prepare the race bike for a national meet in a couple of weeks so won’t have too much time spare. Next I think I’ll program in a closer to stock curve & get that a bit close & see if that picks it up a touch. If I can clear up the ¼ throttle (without changing hella expensive slides) I’ll then get it back on the dyno for a play.

oh yeah I replaced the rotary switch on the calibrator & it appears to work. Going to look at the Tacho soon to see if I can get some more gain on the input. The Zeeltronic pulls the input of the pulsar coil down a bit & the R1 tacho seems to need >12V p-p to operate it, I trialled it with a signal generator so it works fine with a triangle wave & then turned the amplitude down till it stopped working. On the scope it was 12Vp-p, whereas on the bike it was only getting to 8V with Zeel & just 12 stock ignition.

[Deviant Esq]

Good stuff Dave, always good to hear about positive signs. Keep the updates coming along. :corn:

[F5 Dave]

Golly well I haven't updated much here so here is an update from August & this week.

Late August:

Well I went for another test ride & the bike went futt. Long walk back to get the van, only time I haven’t taken my cellphone. Thought I’d trashed the engine with the noise it made.
Turned out the pulsar coil had fallen off it’s mount (it’s been given a whallop & broken internally so it vibrated apart).

So I replaced the coil & put the std ignition on (+ stator position back to std) for a test & went for a ride. Maybe it was going a bit better at wider openings where the needle is thicker. Maybe.

Then it goes fut & dies again. Further away. But this time I have my cell phone. . . And no coverage in this backroad. But a kindly local lets me use the phone. Ride of shame back. Odd thing is it is stuck in a higher gear & will go into neutral but then fall back into gear. Oh great, this is what I need.

Side cover off again. The shifter fingers are hanging up a bit. Gear selection is smooth & light, but seems prone to occasionally hanging up. Consider pulling the engine down. I adjust it so the lever is more central & grind the rivet as the pivot finger was prone to tightening up in one direction. Better but still gets caught sometimes. Often g.boxes are a bit odd on the bench. Should be ok when bike runs (it is).

So why did it stop? I have spark, compression & gas in the bowls. Not a dickybird when kicking though. Maybe I should go back to the Zeel? Hmm, here’s a couple of broken wires out of the CDI where it has some solder joins from previous owner (never solder, always crimp). It was close enough so the plugs would spark but not fire under load. Join back up & starts 2nd kick.

By this time I have some new DEQ needles, they are 2.73mm at closed. I fit some smaller pilots & start it up. Immediately it is idling too fast (I’d had to turn the slide screws up almost full to get it to idle on other needles.

Bingo. That means that it is starting to work properly near closed. We’re getting somewhere. Turn them down & go for a ride. Much better, not perfect by any stretch, but much better. I want to try some leaner pilots as it is still too rich off closed. Off to the bike shop as I have a gap in my range.

By the time I’m back it is raining again & for some reason the bike will fire but die straight away. Time for new plugs, these have fouled several times.

So, progress, but still slow progress. The main thing is being willing to try the leanest needle earlier when running small carbs. Oh the rev counter is working again as on stock ignition. I’ll swap it back to Zeel after I’ve got jetting closer as it’s nice with the tacho. Does feel a bit restrained at low revs, but I need way more advance.

--------------------------

[F5 Dave]

This week

Well a bit more progress, after some promising starts my bike just decided to spring another issue. I swapped pilot jets but a misfire was occurring. Back with old jets, still there. Swap on Zeel ignition, didn’t really want to start. Then noticed the pulsar coil was a distance from the flywheel again. Maybe having the sidecover off means I whack it which getting it up on the bench & then the flywheel clouts it. No play in flywheel I can see or notice when bike runs.

So back to the zeel & swap through the jets again & try a nice flat ignition ‘curve’. Runs the best ever. Still some hesitation off closed throttle & for some reason doesn’t idle any more, almost but. . . Do some more thinking & decide I must play with the static timing as I had the stock ign on last time it idled.

Weather is really improving here so should get some more time testing. Glad of small temporary gas tank, couldn’t be taking the main on & off this many times.

Bit more success I seem to have got my Tacho (R1 Dash) working. I had put a 6k8 resistor in parallel over the input resistor to increase the gain that the zeeltronics ignition had suppressed the input from the pulsar coil by. I had got it working on the bench, but it was really touchy, if you gave it too much gain the revs doubled on the tacho, in some error state. But my initial measurement was perhaps a little off (hard with a sketchy pulse read from an old scope 4ft away while you kickstart a bike that isn’t running very well.

So I added another resistor (12k) on top of the other one & hey presto it seems to work, well even. Have to take for a ride to see that this is retained through the rev range as it was cold engine inside a garage late at night. Will make tuning a bit easier too.

[F5 Dave]

Ok well I finally got the last pilot jets in my nearly complete range from 38 to 62, of course these (45s) were the ones I needed with these lean needles.

Ok quick testride. It works!! It is now definitely in the ballpark carburetion wise. It’s not perfect but some tweeking with the idle screws & the ignition should sort the low throttle fueling, but really only fine tuning as I’m fussy. I have yet to fully decide if I go for slightly less taper on the needles but this is fairly close.

When I get some time I’ll throw it back on the dyno & see what the curve looks like & tweek the ignition curve & maybe retry the mains (last dyno run I had 1 145 in one side & a 150 jet in the other) I have fitted 2 150s when I got them.

Next will be pulling the mufflers apart & sealing them a bit better (they oozed a bit when it wasn’t running well & try to quieten it down a touch for the certification & road licensing. Hope we can get that through ok.

Now at this point I do have to say that I am a bit disappointed in the low end power. Bear in mind that I have been testing it on mossy backroads with a dreadful (until I get dyno testing finished) rear tyre. Now the tacho works I see I was spending a lot of time ~ 3-4 thousand rpm, but even so I did want some more grunt there. Ignition curve should help. I expect the YPVS style PV TSS (in Auss) are working on would be the cure. Failing that I may have to revisit the pipes.

Good times though.:yes:

[vifferman]

Good news, Dr Dave! :niceone:
We eagerly await the Next Exciting Instalment. :yes:
:corn:

[koba]

yeah, any more goss?

[F5 Dave]

OK so update:


I fitted a new rear tyre (150 bridgestone 090). Now the chain rubs heavily. Poo. Ok so a straight edge seems to indicate that the chain would rub anyway? Wtf! Maybe the cushdrive was from a VJ21 with skinny tyre? Who knows? I skimmed the spacers & moved the wheel over a touch, seems straight with front wheel so should be ok. The sw was thinned to fit the frame so who knows if it was really central on both sw? So now the chain missed both frame & tyre, but by a scant few mm. Phew!

I’ve put it all back together. It now sounds ok, hopefully quiet enough for VIN check.

I’m in the section of time where I now try & decide if, after all this time I submit it for testing. Have I missed anything? Is there a ‘fail’ that I am overlooking because I’ve been on it so long? Must run a weathered eye over it maybe with a mate to criticise anything dodgy.

I’ll post a pic, but when I've got the camera out & bike at the same time.

[koba]

I’ll post a pic, but when I've got the camera out & bike at the same time.

egerly awaited.
I'm not sure if I can spell or not.

[F5 Dave]

Ok well I’m holding a piece of paper with the VIN number for it & they’ve riveted a plate to the frame. This is a step forward but not the whole game.

They failed the inspection on the rear brake pedal that hits the pipe (but long after the wheel would be locked up). So I can either adjust it to a high angle, give it a strategic bend without looking bush, or fit a braided line that would remove ½ the travel. Also I had a split ring instead of a split pin on the clevis. But that’s cool, easy fixes. The guys there were actually really helpful.

Also I now need an LVV certificate (here in NZ) to say that the mods (like a 500cc engine & RGV front & rear ends) is kosher from an engineer. I’d expected this & is next step.

The bigger issue is that I thought I had all the paperwork I needed from the seller in Auss. I had a receipt & a Bill of lading with the frame number on it to show that it had been imported. But I also need proof that it was registered in Aus (by this guy).

Oh dear, this could be more than a little problem.

However I called WA licensing & found that they still have records. . . Just they can’t give them to anyone but the last owner. This is April 07 I bought the bike.

Found his cell phone. It rings. He answers!!
So this is the bit where I wait & hope nothing else is an issue.

[vifferman]

We're all waiting anxioulsy to hear everything's OK, Dave!
It's looking really good. :niceone:
While that thing about the brake pedal is understandable, it's kinda picky, innit?

[koba]

Shit its looking great.
Can't wait to see it in the flesh (or is that metal?!)

[F5 Dave]

Well i have the compliance plate & all papers approved, all i need to do is pay for the plate. But sadly i can't ride atm as have broken collarbone.:argh:


[sigh]

[Skunk]

Hand it over then...

[Blackshear]

Well i have the compliance plate & all papers approved, all i need to do is pay for the plate. But sadly i can't ride atm as have broken collarbone.:argh:


[sigh]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Now, give yourself a goddamn rest before the next build :2thumbsup

[F5 Dave]

all i can do- is rest atm. have 2 racebike transformations, a post classic resto job & continued development on this once tested on the road. oh well, bound to be more time when the :baby: arrives. . .

[Number One]

I like that purdy shiny chromey looking tank :yes:

[F5 Dave]

Well time for an update I guess. Sadly my clavicle needs pinning or some such so I haven't been able to work on the bike let alone ride it. In the last week I have got a bit more movement & not so much pain so I have made a bracket to fit the original YPVS servo motor under the tank with a view to fitting TSS aftermarket powervalves.

I've wired in the YPVS controller last night as well, now it makes that vzt vzst noise when power is applied (actually I still need to connect the last wires to the fusebox proper).

New leaner slides are fitted & I've got the ally RZ500 kickstarter mounted up. When I can I'll take it for a ride & check the jetting which hopefully should be close as & take it to the dyno.

But I need to get bones reattached before I can consider riding it, or even manhandling it. & no I don't need any test pilots:lol:

[sil3nt]

Just read through this whole thread and have loved every update! This is one hell of a project you have undertaken and the bike looks bloody awesome. You will be hitting the 2 year mark soon lets all hope everything is sorted before then!

Can't wait to see the dyno results as well.

[koba]

:corn::corn:

[nsrpaul]

I remember this bike when it was in streetbike mag, had it glued to the inside of one of my folders at school

its a mean ride, even cooler now by the sounds

nice work!

[tigertim20]

I have just spent fuck knows how long reading this whole thing, and WOW mate maximum respect to you. Absolute kudos to you for taking this on, its always awesome to see someone spending so much time and effort building a dream bike for themslves.
Real pity about the broken bones mate, but once you have the thing 10% legal, and you are tearing around the streets on it, I am sure that every late night, every dolar,bead of sweat and cuss word uttered in frustration will have been absolutely worth it.
Looks fuckin awesome too.

[F5 Dave]

Heya NSR Paul, don't suppose by any small chance you still have a copy of the article or the original magazine? I wouldn't mind tracking down a copy. They are out of action now so no back issues.

[nsrpaul]

would love to help, but gave away all my streetbike mags years ago, and had cut that one up as a schoolboy anyway

[F5 Dave]

Well a depressing day at the dyno

So the story so far last time I went there (as on the records) was 4/6/08. Sheesh!

So fate has intervened for a year. Last visit I left with a bike that would only run cleanly at full throttle near peak revs, on the + side it was grazing 100hp with mismatched jets 2 sizes different between the sides (all I had close then).

Now I have it carburetting fine at low throttle applications after many many iterations of needles & now slides.

Only for it not to want to run right at full throttle. Groan. Ok so I try several mains, but it just isn’t getting anywhere. Then I realise that the chokes are getting pulled by the cables, you have to check them when you put the carbs back in, but it’s been so much time I’ve been out with my broken Clavicle I’ve forgotten. Try it all again, better, but not the full answer. But I also notice the fraying wires from the original coils I’ve put back on.

So maybe that is causing the inability to take full throttle under load. I’ve tried bigger & smaller mainjets, neither seems better. I try lifting the needles in the hope that they are now too thick at the open position. This makes it hard to rev through past 7000. So I try back to the original 150s. It is better, But it isn’t really much better.

Occasionally it will pull & runs a ragged path to ~ 90hp, but not repeatable & not cleanly. The gear lever linkage thread also shears half way through the session, just enough thread to jam it back together.

This is pants. It will run just beautifully in neutral & blip cleanly sounding fine. But any richer kills it. Maybe it is that coil. I will swap it back to the other one & I’ll drop the mains out & the needles in leanest position & see if the bike will take full throttle (indicating the needle’s influence if it does). & then I’ll try some richer needles.

But another wait, day after I will be in surgery to get the bone pinned so may be a few days at least until I’m up for more fiddling.

It sure isn’t giving up its sweet spot quickly. I can imagine a zillion Banshee owners having given up before now fitting this kit. I have dark moments & I’ve done this heaps of times. Still bumbling like a tool at the moment.

[F5 Dave]

Well here we are again. I suppose people may have gotten bored of this thread, where is the jubilant one handed wheelies in top gear stories?

Well the reality is somewhat different.


But there has been progress.

It took me some while after my operation that I could work on the bike, but I've been to the dyno two more time since last post. 1st visit opened more questions than it answered. I spent another $64 on mainjets (which buys a depressingly small bag of 5 brass doodahs).

OK the 2nd visit was better, but still not conclusive.

OK so what I have now is a bike that will run in the mid 90hps. What I have learnt is that for some crazy reason the lean needles that the bike likes at low throttle applications will not pull full throttle despite going up several main jets & the needle being no bigger at the pointy end that I can measure. But I can swap to the richer needle with the slower taper & it will run just fine.

The other queer thing is that I've run mains from 148 - 158 & it doesn't seem to have much affect. Maybe it makes it better response with the smaller jets. I have dropped the mains out to check if the needles are restricting upstream of the mains but the bike will not rev out on full throttle coughing at about 7000 & not go past burbling like crazy.

Raising any of the needles doesn't seem to have much affect except for maybe making it too rich at part throttle.

The other thing I was battling was seemingly tyre slip. The bike would often get to about 9000 & just take off revs. I was trying to work out if it was clutch but there was tell tale signs of marks on the tyre.

I think the power hits pretty hard & the powervalves open with a hit. We tied the bike down real tight & eventually cleaned the roller that was pretty greasy. It seemed to help but still we had some issues.

So where am I now? well I think it is time to try it on the road & see how it actually carburetes. Then I can start to play with the programmable ignition.

Then there is the TSS powervalves with the YPVS controller which may smooth the power somewhat.

Bout time I actually rode the bike properly & see what it's like.:sunny:

[Skunk]

'Bout time you did some work on this. Pity the progress is so slow at this stage.

[Slingshot]

Well here we are again. I suppose people may have gotten bored of this thread, where is the jubilant one handed wheelies in top gear stories?

Actually, quite the opposite...this is the only thread that I've ever subscribed too :)

It sounds bloody frustrating trying to get the carbs sorted...did you consider FI?

[F5 Dave]

Phew yeah that would have thrown in some extra variables wouldn't it? I have read about someone doing a 350 using R6 parts, but it's not exactly a common conversion & who knows if it would be safe closing the throttle at high revs, you have to feed some fuel in or a 2 stroke will seize up real nice. Would be a good experiment, but not on one's own bike.

I have since heard that these carbs are difficult in these applications due to the non replaceable air jets. I chose these carbs as they work so well on my Dirtbike & bucket (though larger & smaller respectively).

I have also discovered that the ignition curve I had selected is very close to stock & these engines really need a heap more advance in the midrange so that is where I am experimenting next.

[F5 Dave]

Well. Doesn't time fly? I am finding myself with little spare time & motivation these days, kids seem to do that to you.

Earlier this year I spent some time messing around with ignition timing curves int eh programable ignition. Made some improvements but not huge ones.

However there is now progress. After somewhat of a wait (problems with the machinists etc) I have today received the TSS PV kit. My Op to take the plate out was in March & I sent off the barrels to have the valves fitted just before that.

I will now match the valves to clear the pistons & reassemble making sure the PV servo is still all go when I plug it back on. Then it's test time. I also have some more needles to trial.


So behold Motoporn!:love:

[vifferman]

Noice! :niceone:
I look forward with much anticipation to further instalments. :yes:

[TygerTung]

Yes, it is very nice. I also eagerly await further progress on this machine. I can't really talk though as the only time my 350 has been going in the last 3 years is when I got it going to ride it up to the ACC protest and developed an airleak in the base gasket and it has been sitting in my garage in a part disasembled state since! I must get around to putting those great pipes I got off you on it too.

[F5 Dave]

I have been wondering how those got on.

[Reckless]

Keep the reports coming Dave! Be interesting to see if you can get those carb's sorted!

[pete376403]

Have you considered fuel injection? Have got a haltech programmable unit - pretty basic but quite tuneable with a laptop. Does your engine have a charging system?

[F5 Dave]

Yeah we went over this in the last page. Don't want to throw any more variables into the mix. 2 strokes are hard to inject at the best of times.

[Reckless]

Dave is there a base you can find for the carbs, like on the net where someone else has raced or run one of these engines?
Its quite a big ask to start from scratch with emulsion tube,needle, idle, main jet sizes and then throw in timing as well??
We used to do all the above when using Motoplat ignitions and running methanol in our karts.
But we made adjustable power jets so we could lean the bottom more and still be ok on the main jet end of the scale for road racing.
We where where getting 43 horse out of the top 125's 10 years ago so you getting 100 horse out of this is well achievable I reckon!

The way I see it the bike should be able to run ok with a std advance and the jetting then should only have be changed richer to cure a lean situation as you advance the timing?
Be careful not to advance it to much so you get detonation and loose the front off those lovely pistons LOL!!

The only way I can see without the computer programes the manufacturers have is to plug read?
Rob Taylor used to be pretty good at it when I was Karting and we got ok at it over the years.

A trick used sometimes was to leave the main jet out till the Idle and mid was ok. But don't expect it to run over 3/4 throttle if you try this method.
Also the old benchmark of if you turn the idle air screw more than 2 1/2 turns to get decent idle you have the wrong size Idle/ pilot jet in

but I'd imagine you'd know all the above I'm not trying to tell you how to suck eggs LOL!!.

Good luck with it I don't envy your task! Your gonna have those carbs apart a few times yet I'd guess!! Good read mate!

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I run an oil tank as my petrol tank so I don't have any access issues getting to the carbs. I've run without mains to trial that. There have fixed emulsion tube in Keihin & use different thickness needles, unlike mikunis.

The bike has a fully programmable ignition so it is physically set with way too much advance & then adjusted back in software & a curve applied. I ran the std ign curve for ages & wasn't getting anywhere fast, but my french connection told me you needed to run heaps of advance with these big cylinders in the mid revs or it would splutter no matter what the jetting. Ahh.

The cylinders are 250cc rather than std 175 & like 13 ports instead of 7 so they breath completely differently through carbs twice the area.

So I've been through 5 sets of needles & matched the best mains & pilots to them. I now have been suggested some less lean needles, but perhaps with smaller pilots they may work better.

They pull 120hp in race trim (quads using this engine went 1st-2nd in Pikes peak a few yrs ago), but this is not a race bike, I want it to last. I'm not getting hung up on peak power, though it is easy when it is so close to 100. Maybe the PVs will push it over?

No no it doesn't matter.

[Reckless]

I now have been suggested some less lean needles, but perhaps with smaller pilots they may work better.

That to my thinking would lean the Idle/off idle and richen the mid? Bearing in mind the pilot is the only jet that inputs fuel right through the throttle range. So the effect might be minimal I'd guess??
Where in the throttle range is the main problem and does the plug colour show it to be rich there??

I have some good articals on plug reading and 2smoke tuning that I send to the off road boys if you want to PM me your email.
Thats about as much input as I can suggest over the internet when it comes to tuning?
You may already know far more and have more expertise than is in them but I thought I'd offer.
I love this stuff even though I'm not as good as some at it, I wish I was still in Wgtn! LOL!!

[F5 Dave]

It is just spooging a whole heap. I've cleaned up throttle response a lot from the start with the leaner needles. The needles also can flow at idle if the diameter is too small. The gas released though the needle jet is large drips at low airflow whereas the pilot jet cct is higher velocity & can deliver better atomised fuel. With my GasGas I went down in pilot till it ran better, but was still a bit stumbly. When fitting the LTR kit needle which was leaner when throttle closed I had to go up in pilot size & then it was sweet. I hadn't realised that the needle could flow at idle. Ideally it shouldn't, but it does if the diameter is too small.

[F5 Dave]

Was supposed to be racing yesterday but the rain put me off so didn't need much excuse to get garage bound.
Spent yesterday just tickling up the intentionally too long blades to match ex ports & shortening a cable & testing it with the YPVS servo motor. On/off/grind repeat.
All was going well. I'm even making up a plate to bolt onto the torque arms which are tied to the front of the frame; the engine twists a bit from vertical on the dyno so I am adding a side torque arm.

Only progress was thwarted by absence of a 20cent piston circlip. The only ones I had we right dia but too 1.2mm rather than 1mm wire & don't go into groove convincingly enough. I'm looking forward to trying this new set up out. Now to go find out what a 20cent circlip costs, or even if they have one (read several).

[F5 Dave]

Well two steps forward & one step back.

So I’m running the TSS powervalves & had experimented with some Viton o-rings for the heaqd seal. They were too narrow & it leaked so back to the 2.0mm std ones (poor design has them compressing too much). Another aborted trip to the dyno.


So now I try again last night. Runs up ok. Try the new CEL needles in the PWK35 carbs. Hey that’s not bad! Try some richer mains & pilots & then leaner pilots & richer mains again. Hey we’re getting somewhere. Hmm, bike won’t start.

Check plugs. Kick kick kick. Take it off the dyno (no charge to spin the drum sadly) & crash start it (easily). Put back on dyno, try to restart (doesn’t idle). Kick Kick Kick.

Grr. Crash start, take for a ride up the road & it goes quite well.

Get out voltmeter. 10.2 volts. Rev it stays the same. Great that’s just what I need! - a queer charging fault.

So back home to sulk again. This morning I pull the bike out & try with another battery & it is charging 14V ok. Duff battery. I’ve been using a small YTB4B-BS. But clearly it isn’t man enough for the Zeeltronics & might have been knackered a bit by vibration, who knows? So I walked into a free ~ std RZ size battery, just need to mount it.

Left pipe still smokes more than the right. Odd. Water level down a bit. Either it is still leaking or it pushed a bit out getting hot on the dyno. May try swapping the carbs & reedblocks over for giggles to see if the smoking swaps sides.

When I had it apart there was a lot of oily brown tar like residue in the left chamber. I convinced myself it smelt like coolant. Those o-rings did leak, but these ones should be ok from new. Is it still leaking I wonder.

Nothing’s simple huh?

[F5 Dave]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Well things have taken an interesting turn. I’ve noticed that I’ve been losing water & it appears it has been going into the cylinder on KH side. Changed 0-rings etc. Took it apart to check head & base gasket/plugs in bottom of barrels to see if it was leaking there.

Then I bolted the head on & short hoses with bungs in them & a tyre valve. Pumped it up & SSSSSS. Well there’s a leak.

Dumped it in a barrel of water. Bubble stream. Out of an invisible hole in the PV slot. Oh dear. Can’t get to that to fix it.

Ring the distributor in US I bought it from.

“Hmm June 2007” Yep it’s bean that long. “OK well send it back & we’ll fix or replace it”

So that’s pretty good service. Sadly it’s been there for a month & they have said they can’t fix so they will get me a new one. Which will be 6 weeks.

Oh well. At least I’ll have a decent chance of tuning it without water spraying in putting out the fire at low revs. Wish I’d known this 2 years back when I had it going for the first time. Funny what catches you. I never thought it would have a block leak.

Oh well there goes another summer without the 500 going.

[White trash]

You poor bugger. I guess this is one of the joys of building specials however. And better you than me. I'd just take the fucken thing to the scrappys by now.

[James Deuce]

Gaaah! Thud!

[imdying]

Good things take time.

[F5 Dave]

Well I've not got the barrels back yet, but in the mean time I've got the chassis checked for straightness as it was a bit suspect. Turns out it was straight as. I've wired in some bullet connectors so I can try filters on the speedo & tacho as I have had some interference issues making them a bit random.

Next controversial thing is I've just got back from dropping the pipes at the strippers to take the HPC coating off. It looks nice when polished & will protect the pipes well which is why I chose it. But the bike makes power a lot higher than I expected. The port timing & pipe length seems to measure out just fine.

Insulating pipes makes them act as if shorter & concentrates the power further up. There is also a train of thought that the returning charge that has over scavenged gets returned to the engine hoter than if normal pipes. Either way I've decided to test whether the bike produces power lower down without the coating. I would have thought it only would have made ~ 300rpm diff. Only way it seems is to test. Experts I've asked haven't lied the HPC coating, but can't be specific how much diff it will make.

If I need to lengthen the pipes I'd have needed to get them stripped anyway.

So teh quation is now how do I coat them. Well I'll wait & see.

[jasonu]

Well I've not got the barrels back yet, but in the mean time I've got the chassis checked for straightness as it was a bit suspect. Turns out it was straight as. I've wired in some bullet connectors so I can try filters on the speedo & tacho as I have had some interference issues making them a bit random.

Next controversial thing is I've just got back from dropping the pipes at the strippers to take the HPC coating off. It looks nice when polished & will protect the pipes well which is why I chose it. But the bike makes power a lot higher than I expected. The port timing & pipe length seems to measure out just fine.

Insulating pipes makes them act as if shorter & concentrates the power further up. There is also a train of thought that the returning charge that has over scavenged gets returned to the engine hoter than if normal pipes. Either way I've decided to test whether the bike produces power lower down without the coating. I would have thought it only would have made ~ 300rpm diff. Only way it seems is to test. Experts I've asked haven't lied the HPC coating, but can't be specific how much diff it will make.

If I need to lengthen the pipes I'd have needed to get them stripped anyway.

So teh quation is now how do I coat them. Well I'll wait & see.

Before stripping the pipes try makeing some ali spacers for between the pipe and cylinder.

[F5 Dave]

Too late, they're at the strippers now. But also they have slip on joints at the headers unlike the RZ & there isn't much clearance to the rad anyway.

[jasonu]

Too late, they're at the strippers now. But also they have slip on joints at the headers unlike the RZ & there isn't much clearance to the rad anyway.

What a coincidence, I was at the 'strippers' yesterday too.

[F5 Dave]

2 posts in 1

1. never posted from 2 weeks ago;
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Well yeehaa, I finally have my new barrels back. The old ones were porous which was what was giving me so much greif trying to set it up.

I will now leak test them (apparently they do this on new stuff so they have learnt) & they had a piston to barrel measurement document 'cause that had been a problem for others in the past. So top marks to Trinity for honouring a 3 year old set of barrels & even threw in new pistons & gaskets.

So now I will repaint them & I'll run some Chemweld block sealant in them to belt & braces. I've done this in another barrel by putting the head on with short rad hoses & bungs & fitting a tyre valve. I'll fill it full of this stuff & pressurise it & put in on the stove in some water heating it to 60 deg for 20 min, then leave it in there making sure it's under pressure. This stuff doesn't leave a residue apparently & just works its way into any cracks of porosity.

Then it's back together & see if it runs properly now.

Pipes are now just painted & new battery box under the seat as it needed a bigger battery for the Zeeltronics.

I got a licence plate for it yesterday so it is legal to ride in NZ.

Watch this space. oh yeah I've got a racebike I'm just about to start for the first time & then tune & finish the chassis, & a new dirtbike that needs some fettling I got in the weekend, + with the new kid & all. . . .ahh, time where can I find some?


2nd post imagine its today (ok a tough stretch)
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Well its been a wet weekend (& a few late nights during the week) so I got into the garage & despite having a new (to me) dirt-bike vying for the time I managed to get the engine back in the frame after doing the above sealing & testing & rechecking squish,, re-adjusting TSS PV fit, compression ratio, adjusting piston ring end gap etc & all those things that make a simple job take a long time.

Getting the engine in the frame is quite a trick, even the sump plug has to be out & you need to have the correct alcohol to blood ratio to origami it in with a few strategic twists from left right to front back. I'd only had 3 beers so it was a nightmare & took 1/4 hr just to get it in situ with no bolts, just resting there.

Cover all back on, just pipes, carbs, rad, wires & fluids, then I can test it & restart the jetting process without extra water injection.

[gale_wolf]

Ooh nice :) I remember an article in Performance Bikes mag back in the mid-90's where some guy in the UK had chucked an RG500 engine into an RGV250 chassis. I was all about the two-strokes at the time and got quite excited about that bike. Maybe not quite the same thing but still very nice.

[White trash]

Woohoo!!!! Looking forward to meeting the bike in person son Dave. I expect to see it passing me on one wheel btw.

[F5 Dave]

Ooh nice :) I remember an article in Performance Bikes mag back in the mid-90's where some guy in the UK had chucked an RG500 engine into an RGV250 chassis. I was all about the two-strokes at the time and got quite excited about that bike. Maybe not quite the same thing but still very nice.
Yeah there were a couple of those in wgtn & I've seen at least 1 in Auckland. This will match a fairly highly tuned RG500 (they break about 100hp with a StanStephens stage 3 tune) but hopefully be less fragile. The RGs like eating cranks & 2nd gear & the parts prices will scare you. I almost went down this path over 10 yrs ago until I spoke to my flatmate of the time who was an ex suzuki parts man & he quoted me the price of RG cranks:shit:

Should have a bunch more midrange into the bargain & will be a sight lighter than the 4 as well.

[F5 Dave]

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Well I finally got a short time I could test ride the bike with the kids awake.

It needs some more jetting work at low throttle applications but past there seems pretty ok. I’ll richen the pilots & retry, failing that I’ll try the richer std slides.

But overall it runs the best it ever has. Getting there finally.

[jasonu]

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Well I finally got a short time I could test ride the bike with the kids awake.

It needs some more jetting work at low throttle applications but past there seems pretty ok. I’ll richen the pilots & retry, failing that I’ll try the richer std slides.

But overall it runs the best it ever has. Getting there finally.

Video and/or pix please

[White trash]

Vid of a wheelie or it didn't happen...............

[F5 Dave]

Wheelie on a public road? I'm sure it didn't:rolleyes: Actually with the jetting still soggy it would be a pretty haphazard affair.

My new 300 Gaser though! Woohoo! front wheel required off the ground?, No problem sir, how high would sir like it? Ride over these bumps with wheel still in the air, But of course sir.:clap: Turn the corner with the wheel still in the air? um. . .yes, if sir would be so good to just close the throttle if it isn't inconvenient? Oh dear.

[ac3_snow]

Just found out about your project after your recent updates, sounds bloddy wicked!
Was reading a back issue of Bike Rider Magazine (February 2010 #68) and been drooling over a modern homemade YZR500, no doubt its been posted on here somewhere before. But this is just sooo damm sexy it is worth another mention, the quality of finish is absolutely amazing and could only dream of what it would be like to ride. Here is a copy of an article in another magazine which featured the same bike (http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj45/4_Fingerz/?action=view&current=r62t1.jpg#!oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs26 9.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj45%2F4_Fingerz%2F%3 Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dr62t2.jpg)

[F5 Dave]

It's sad innit? I changed the pilot jets 2 weeks ago but have not had a time to test ride the bike without waking up kids etc & aside from dirt bike rides etc etc.

Finally did ride it with the pilot jets changed (down from 45 to 40, didn't have two 42s).

. . . And it's really quite good! :shit:

Took it out to warm it up properly, it ran well & is pretty good on low throttle positions. So maybe I went too far so I tried the richer 5.5 slides rather than the 7s. Made it worse. Hmm ok so 7s back in & tried winding the idle mixture out a turn (had wound in richer as 2 size jet change. Went out on warm bike. Instantly better. Could negotiate turns & whatnot. Still not perfect but I've certainly ridden worse jetted bikes.

I'll take it to the dyno one night & try correct mainjet for the CEL needles I'm running & might fool around with the ignition curve now its running well.

Finally! All it took was an engine that wasn't coughing water as well.

Need to get the speedo going again, not sure why that's stopped but the rev counter is working properly now with a bit more filtering. Then put it together for a proper ride with a fuel tank fitted instead of an oil tank, a bit weird riding without something to grip onto under brakes.

[F5 Dave]

Well a day at the dyno brought some confusion. OK so it now runs better than ever through the range. The peak power is suppressed, but so is the revs it is made at. Peak is 1200rpm lower at a more sensible 9200 for a big road engine like this. I think that may be the pipe coating, but I can't swear on it.

I changed mains & it got better & better & then suddenly worse, so back to where I was I it got better, but not as good. Did an all gears & it suppresses at high speeds. Maybe the ignition not holding up? Started to be a real bitch to start, where as it had been great once new battery was in place.

Charging seems to work ok sez the multimeter I tried when I got back home. But it started straight up at home. Confusing.

While on the dyno I tried moving needle up & down. It liked the leaner pos. I also tried some different curves & it ran better on one.

Well time to put it together after fixing the speedo & do some road miles.

[F5 Dave]

So here's the embarrassing part; Putting the bike together last night for longer road rides I rechecked the carbs to synchronise the opening, they were pretty good. I idly cranked the throttle full open only to see there was slide still in the bore. Pulled the cable & the last bit comes up. I'm sure I'd checked that before. Turns out that the splitter (that I bought from some ATV crowd off evilbay) that came as a kit with the carbs, only has a stroke of 29mm! So 6mm short of full throw. How I laughed at myself. Assumption is the mother of all fups.

well that may gain back a bit of power lost through lower revs, not that I care at this stage.

[TygerTung]

Well keep up with the updates! It's great, rest assured, lots of people are following this thread (well I am) but possibly not posting. You should get a huge power increase with the cables. Seems like quite a big project, good on ya for sticking with it, I probably would have lost interest by now and started working on something else!

[F5 Dave]

, yeah are you saying you never got those chambers on the RZ?

Well I took it for a slightly longer ride yesterday. I'd been working on the house yesterday & time got away on me. What I did learn was it was borderline lean on the pilots & as I set off ~ 4:30 the temp had dropped to quite chilli & the bike ran badly off just open throttle. But then fine at higher revs or more throttle.

Not ideal for increasing traffic conditions as I stuttered through Alicetown on minor throttle.

But it rips! in the few occasions I could give it some medium stick, up comes the front wheel. Later up the hill road to my house, same deal leaving a corner but with another approaching, a slap as the wheel regains contact (SHT!). Have to be careful & might need to wind the steering damper on for test rides.

Must order another 42 pilot jet as I mentioned a couple of posts back, I didn't have 2 42s so went to 40. Think that should sort it out. I cut the ride short as I didn't want to run it too lean for long. + the traffic was getting silly.

[White trash]

I think I jizzed.

[sil3nt]

You need a camera so we can enjoy your rides as well!

[F5 Dave]

that sounds like "admissible as evidence in a court of law':shutup:

[F5 Dave]

Doesn't sound like much of a title 5 years on, that R6 would be a shitter by now if I'd bought it, but the latest installment of why I did this (perhaps foolishly) instead:


Well here we go. It been a year since I’ve been at this project. Rego on hold, cooling was an issue (ran hotter on motorway than I'd seen around the streets, but also up Takas), but so was time & money. Dirtbikes to maintain, Buckets to re-engineer, 2 ankle bitters & reduced play money as a result of one income.

So lets tackle the cooling. I’ve bought a thermo bypass, like a thermostat but it directs water one way or the other & should give a better flow. I’ve also redirected the flow to hopefully eliminate the potential for air pockets & added a back bleed hose to help auto bleed the system (it was tedious before) & as it has high temp silicone pipe I should be able to see any air bubbles from head leaks or incorrect bleeding.

I can’t afford a custom oversize rad & the space is limited so I’m going to try get the best I can out of my existing rad. I’ve put a baffle between the RHS tank top & bottom & added an inlet pipe so the water will have to pass along the top & down the other side tank & back the bottom rows forcing the water to populate all the finned area rather than favour a path it prefers.

I’m also going to run water wetter & a non glycol coolant in low ratios for better heat transfer. Icing up isn’t going to be a problem where I ride this bike, just corrosion protection requirement.

Craig (Motometal) has done a good job of the rad mod & welding a Y pipe (made from a bent bar from the race bike that a friend ‘preformed’ to the right shape as she threw it up the road). I’ve Devconed the bits he couldn’t reach & will pressure test it soon.

While the head is off I was considering changing the insert shape, but they are parrallet to the squish so there is unlikely to be much improvement so they may stay as is. The downside to removing the old remote thermostat housing is the temp thermistor is displaced & needs a new home.

I will drill a hold in the head & my tap kit has the gas fitting thermos require. My only other concern is that the thermo will be close to the sparkplugs & the R1 dash has been a bit susceptible to EMI previously (resistor plugs helped), Moving an input closer can’t help but I will wrap a ferrite around the lead to try negate any issue just in case.

Then it will be test time & start all over with different needles & mains. The mains choice will be different no doubt as the splitter cable only opened the carbs ¾, so with the new long throw splitter this should be interesting.

Hopefully the test rides on the road will show cooler running & we’ll be set for summer. If I can afford some rego.

[F5 Dave]

Well I've taken my 496 out for a ride for the first time in little over a year. Its what we call stinkn hot here, but would probably classify as mild to a Sydneysider presently. Good day to test the cooling which was an issue on my bike. So to recap slightly I've put in a bypass thermo & rerouted the rad so it flows the top half & down the side tank & back the bottom of the rad.

I've also swapped glycol coolant for Penrite 10/tenths & added a good dose of water wetter. On the dyno it heated up quickly, but it always does on the dyno.

On the road it quickly got to 40, then 50. Up a hill in suburbia it got to 61, then cooled back down it. I hit the motorway at 58 where it got to 61 & stayed for a while. At the lights it heated up. & up, & up. at 80 the lights changed & the temp dropped down quickly to 70 & then stayed below.

Over a hill it got to 71 then dropped.

So I'm happy. it could run a bit cooler but this is totally useable esp considering the ambient temp.

What wasn't so cool is the power dip at 6000 is noticeable, so I must play with the PV controller. Also the speedo had stopped working which was a drag.

Good progress though.

[F5 Dave]

Really? Is that my last post 4 yrs ago? Sheesh!

Well a new battery and time to inspect the pv action. Oh. It appears 1/2 the grub screws have backed off leaving 1 pv driven, the other left to its own devices. That won't be helping.
Also found that the speedo sensor had moved out of the way.
Have a dip switch programmable pv controller to try on the dyno.
But I'm now fitting and egt to monitor the exh temp and warn of any impending problem of leaness on the road.
Then dyno test time.

[F5 Dave]

EGT gauge mounted on a bracket and wired in to loom. That's the small LED gauge to the right of the dash.

The exposed tip sensor is exposed to the exhaust gases through a hole drilled 4-6" down the header. Supposedly this is accurate to 1degree and super fast. It wasn't overly cheap, but I'd bought it for a racebike many years ago so nice to be using it.

The downside to the installation is, kit intended for a car, the braided sensor lead is 5' long and they warn against shortening it as calibrated. I'll have to loop it neatly behind the headlight, but no drama, its ready to rock.

[F5 Dave]

Bringdingdingding

Sounds great like, well kinda not like an RZ.


Gauge is bouncing around oddly. Maybe has to be running on song to behave. Maybe dyno tonight. See how kids behave. . , or how much I drink with dinner. Been washing the house this glorious day.

[jasonu]

Bringdingdingding

Sounds great like, well kinda not like an RZ.


Gauge is bouncing around oddly. Maybe has to be running on song to behave. Maybe dyno tonight. See how kids behave. . , or how much I drink with dinner. Been washing the house this glorious day.

How about a video of it running.....in case it blows up like.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah thanks mate.

Actually could never be bothered getting a tube account.

[riffer]

Hangin out for an update.

My oldest son, who was a wee tyke when this whole thing started, is now a motorcyclist himself, studying to become an engineer, and needs inspiration.

When do we get to see this damned thing going?

[F5 Dave]

I keep getting sidelined. I'm building a new engine for a mate's bucket and there's always something to do with the dirt bike but riding season is over for a while. I have new jets and the Ignitech ignition showed up Friday so I can start wiring that in. Figured it wasn't worth dynoing until that was done and can also drive the power valve the way I want.
Rode it down to TSS err, about 3 years ago.

[riffer]

So... sounds like it's suffering the same fate as my Katana.

That one has now been picked up by eldest son, who figures its a good project for him as he progresses through his mechanical engineering training.

If he had a bit more money I'd encourage him to get a bucket. However, at the moment anything that happens to his current motorcycle is coming out of my back pocket so I'll hold off a touch.

It would be great to see that two smoker finally sorted. In the meantime I'll get my F5 Dave blog fix looking at the magic you're doing to that old TF engine...

[F5 Dave]

Sheesh. So new ignitech ignition. Can hold power valve closed till 7000rpm or whatever I like.

Started it today and adjusted the base ignition timing. Sounds crisp.
Also has quick shifter, shift light and can fit tis for 3D map.

Take it to the dyno shortly.

[F5 Dave]

Back at the Dyno. Maybe last time I can use it. But overall a good visit.

On a cool night I think that would have touched 100. Not too shabby for what started as a RZ350.

[speedpro]

Not a bad effort.

I see your problem though - 138MJ. Obviously the carbs are too small

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I went for 35s instead of 39s to try boost midrange but also mileage as it is indeed a roadbike with an already small tank.

Plus the 39s would have struggled to physically fit.

[jasonu]

Yeah I went for 35s instead of 39s to try boost midrange but also mileage as it is indeed a roadbike with an already small tank.

Plus the 39s would have struggled to physically fit.

How about some photos?

[F5 Dave]

There's a heap several pages back. Its skeletal currently, a mass of wires etc but I'm going to sling it all back together soon now I'm more or less happy with how it's running.

Brakes not so much. I bought some nissin calipers off Daytona600, but they are Yam spacing. I need RF900 ones.

[F5 Dave]

Rush of blood to the head and I hit buy on some Triumph 600 calipers. Known mod for RZs. But different spacing from RGVs. Bugger.

Ordering some RF900 ones instead.

[Dodgy]

2 stroke frenzy ride over the break then?

[F5 Dave]

Damn straight! Best put the twin seat back on the NSR. Just in case.

[F5 Dave]

PISS!! Can't fit them with the straight brake line fittings. Have to send them up for new ends like angled dummy one shown. Actually the bike came with those nasty coloured ally fittings so they were ripped off.
Not sure why I kept then but use was as a template.

Of course a two week wait before could even start the job.

[jasonu]

PISS!! Can't fit them with the straight brake line fittings. Have to send them up for new ends like angled dummy one shown. Actually the bike came with those nasty coloured ally fittings so they were ripped off.
Not sure why I kept then but use was as a template.

Of course a two week wait before could even start the job.

Put them in a vise and try bending the straight fittings. I know that's a bit rangi but might save you a few bucks.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah. Nah.
Probably won't fracture and then fail at a later date. But I'd hate myself if it did.

[jasonu]

Yeah. Nah.
Probably won't fracture and then fail at a later date. But I'd hate myself if it did.

Naa a little bit of heat and it'll be apples mate.

[husaberg]

PISS!! Can't fit them with the straight brake line fittings. Have to send them up for new ends like angled dummy one shown. Actually the bike came with those nasty coloured ally fittings so they were ripped off.
Not sure why I kept then but use was as a template.

Of course a two week wait before could even start the job.

I am curious Why use he RF caliper instead of the prettier one from the GSXR600 same 90mm spacing?

https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/KlsAAOSwMvpbK0vO/$_86.JPG
AFAIK the Triumph ones on the 595 are the triumph 90mm ones

90mm spacings
http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Calliper-swaps.jpg

[F5 Dave]

Because GSXR600 and TL were still Tokico not Nissin.

Tokico crap. Nissin good.

[husaberg]

Because GSXR600 and TL were still Tokico not Nissin.

Tokico crap. Nissin good.

LOL i never noticed only reason i posted it was they used to use those GSXR600 ones to replace the 6 pots on the first GSXR750's as those to were meant to be crap.
Funny thing though Nissans and Keihins are both owned by Honda.:bleh:
What are the reed valves on that yamasuzuki?

[F5 Dave]

Malossi V FORCE CR250. Think 3s.

[F5 Dave]

Well mounted and bleed in minutes.

Time to fit bodywork and go for a ride.


. . . Except dirt ride for Sunday. Repacked muffler and new rear disc and new front line and test master cylinder for front. More bikes, more maintenance. Got a tail tidy for the 676 Christmas but still in box.

[F5 Dave]

Test ride; Meh, not really.

Surging violently. Dash had been flashing off and on trying to start it as lights always on, must make a light switch. DC ignition gets dragged down you see.

But up the street Brrapp-burr Brrapp-burr. Pretty exciting on a 500 didn't dare get the revs up.

Hmmm. Out for a ride on the 675 to contemplate and steak pepper pie. .

Might check battery connection. I'd already been tested riding a recalcitrant GSXR400 which required a walk back up the hill and a van ride in the stinking heat.

Pity as 500 feels good on the road. Brakes also felt good for the couple of times I tried them.
GPS app on phone in tank bag shows speedo might not be a million miles off cal.

[jasonu]

Test ride; Meh, not really.

Surging violently. Dash had been flashing off and on trying to start it as lights always on, must make a light switch. DC ignition gets dragged down you see.

But up the street Brrapp-burr Brrapp-burr. Pretty exciting on a 500 didn't dare get the revs up.

Hmmm. Out for a ride on the 675 to contemplate and steak pepper pie. .

Might check battery connection. I'd already been tested riding a recalcitrant GSXR400 which required a walk back up the hill and a van ride in the stinking heat.

Pity as 500 feels good on the road. Brakes also felt good for the couple of times I tried them.
GPS app on phone in tank bag shows speedo might not be a million miles off cal.

Tidy your shed ya bloody slob

[husaberg]

Whats happening withe the stinger. Edit the T125 Stinger

[F5 Dave]

Tell me about it. The picture was supposed to be in the glorious sun fresh back from a triumphant run but it kinda got pushed back to the shed so I could get the roadbike out.
The shed mess is a result of too many Christmas jobs including the ones about the house and parts arriving which go on the bench. I hesitated before I took that shot.

The Stinger is just on the other side of the shadowboard. Needs the wiring checked from scratch but there's a billion other jobs to do on other bikes including mates.

[F5 Dave]

The 675 was a revelation compared to the creaky old GSXR. The 500 has a more natural riding position despite being diminutive. It was bordering on scary to ride like that.

Battery attached securely. Time to apply thinking juice. Picture attached. Sideways of course.
Been a hot day. Well for my blood anyway. Wet from sweat when I got back. Wairarapa is a great place to ride.

Next step tank off and see if it runs fine with the workshop tank like it did on the dyno.
But there's new doors to put on wifey's car blah blah.

[husaberg]

The Stinger is just on the other side of the shadowboard. Needs the wiring checked from scratch but there's a billion other jobs to do on other bikes including mates.

So what were you going to do about the bright work or is Wellingtons weather kinder than i think it would be to Chrome.

[F5 Dave]

The Stinger has all rechromed tinware, exception being front guard. Tank needs painting but I have a good one of the 6. Painter is coming around tomorrow to teach me how to rehang (repainted) Corolla doors. I know sod all about cars. Just never been slightly interested. GSXR belongs to his missus.

[husaberg]

The Stinger has all rechromed tinware, exception being front guard. Tank needs painting but I have a good one of the 6. Painter is coming around tomorrow to teach me how to rehang (repainted) Corolla doors. I know sod all about cars. Just never been slightly interested. GSXR belongs to his missus.

How much did that cost i you dont mind thats whats always scared me off the early Jap resto's ie ammount of chrome thickness of guards vs cost of bike. i had visions of 1k at least.
My wolf has the Chromed high rise with black painted over chrone rmufflers with blached trimmed heat sheilds every Stinger i ever seen were the reverse matt black pipes and chrome mufflers. chromr trime heat shelds although some people have said they remember the opposite. pretty sure i dont have an original frount guard

[F5 Dave]

They varied. CMM mag showed up he put same pipes on his, might be mk1 were inverse of mk2, but so much is clouded by Suzuki parts bin approaches. There are 3 handlebars and two or three front guards as well as low pipes etc.

Chroming wasn't too bad but so few places do it now. Did it piecemeal so the 1000 bucks was spread out, probably was half that.

[husaberg]

They varied. CMM mag showed up he put same pipes on his, might be mk1 were inverse of mk2, but so much is clouded by Suzuki parts bin approaches. There are 3 handlebars and two or three front guards as well as low pipes etc.

Chroming wasn't too bad but so few places do it now. Did it piecemeal so the 1000 bucks was spread out, probably was half that.
My handlebars are like narrow MX bars no where near as bad as i thought.
All the old pommy bike stuff my dad had used to et done at the same place they did Russels Hobbs kettles in CHCH

[F5 Dave]

Dirt bike ride was close and short loop so got home early. Started off foggy and cleared up mint.

Check this photo out. I always carry a tripod and SLR. I can post shutter speed for those interested.

Nah just my cell phone but look at it. I told Pete to hide his face.

[F5 Dave]

Anyhoo Decided to flag shopping for new runners and try figure out the 500
Plugged it in to the laptop and revved it. Quickshifter goes Yes No Yes No. Ahhh.

[F5 Dave]

Turned it (shift kill) off and went for ride. Problem solved.

Feels weak on part throttle . Needle position isn't right. Great when you open throttle. Went onto motorway and gave it a fat. Words like: Oh My. And Golly! were used.

. Riding position is like being home again.

Temperature is a concern though. 67 on motorway. That's fine I'm not looking for peak power. But got up to 89 following a slow coach up my hill.

It's not hurting it but not much leeway. I'll need to take it out Wairarapa where I intend to use it at a mixture of looping along, tight and flat out bits.

[husaberg]

Turned it (shift kill) off and went for ride. Problem solved.

Feels weak on part throttle . Needle position isn't right. Great when you open throttle. Went onto motorway and gave it a fat. Words like: Oh My. And Golly! were used.

. Riding position is like being home again.

Temperature is a concern though. 67 on motorway. That's fine I'm not looking for peak power. But got up to 89 following a slow coach up my hill.

It's not hurting it but not much leeway. I'll need to take it out Wairarapa where I intend to use it at a mixture of looping along, tight and flat out bits.

What is the radiator RG250 Stock what? space looks kind of tight from the last pic but looks like room for a NC30 lower rad
https://raresportbikesforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/010-NC30-ENGINE-LEFT-4.jpg
Has it got the uprated Pump pretty sure Flet actually made the ones for the TSS

[F5 Dave]

It's 6 o'clock and the sun is still savage . Dipping feet in paddling pool. Drinking local drop of brown fizzy water

Life is surprisingly good.

[husaberg]

It's 6 o'clock and the sun is still savage . Dipping feet in paddling pool. Drinking local drop of brown fizzy water

Life is surprisingly good.

Rain all day cicadias still wont shut up. 16ft pool full of leaves
I see though a NC30 lower rad isnt going to work though.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88503&d=1204769894

[F5 Dave]

Yeah it's tight. Small bikes 100hp.

[husaberg]

Yeah it's tight. Small bikes 100hp.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88503&d=1204769894
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91916&d=1207525745
looks like you can go up a little down a little plus a bit thicker and maybe widder with a curved one.
Then there the radiator to consider;)

i only just noticed the braced frame rails

here is a TL1000R dimensions but still looks no deeper or taller
340603340604340605340606

[F5 Dave]

Have a cardboard thicker template similar to Sketchy NSR300 Chinese rad.

[husaberg]

Have a cardboard thicker template similar to Sketchy NSR300 Chinese rad.

Me know understand.
you have a chinese made one on it at the moment made to size from a carboard template?
Does it have the uprated water pump impellor

[F5 Dave]

Me know understand.
you have a chinese made one on it at the moment made to size from a carboard template?
Does it have the uprated water pump impellor
ZX4, but modded so it goes right to left in top 1/2 then left to right in bottom half.

[husaberg]

ZX4, but modded so it goes right to left in top 1/2 then left to right in bottom half.

Shame the lower NC30 wouldn't fit
https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/radiators-radiator-parts/listing-1950821924.htm?rsqid=66b339e4c6094e3388a39870cfa94 c99
Price of a few Beers

This would not help the rad being to small but it might delay the result
http://www.factorypro.com/tech/radiator%20cap,hi%20pressure.html
Jason could acquire the spring for you

[F5 Dave]

And ironically where I sourced the ZX radiator as we had a couple of beers. Maybe I should pop around and see what else might be on offer. Curved ones didn't seem to offer up well. Thicker Chinese one might be the go.

Still smarting over ripped inlet manifolds halting further progress. Had considered taking it to a local bike show as a work in progress. Look very unlikely for 2 weeks time.

[husaberg]

And ironically where I sourced the ZX radiator as we had a couple of beers. Maybe I should pop around and see what else might be on offer. Curved ones didn't seem to offer up well. Thicker Chinese one might be the go.

Still smarting over ripped inlet manifolds halting further progress. Had considered taking it to a local bike show as a work in progress. Look very unlikely for 2 weeks time.

I had seen some straight ones they made to suit the ATC250R TRX but unfortunately they were what you had already used UPP

[F5 Dave]

Awaiting reply from Chariot

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chariot-Banshee-Cheetah-Billet-Intakes-36-41-carbs-Wont-fit-DM-only-Cheetah/282736953948?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=f525a09567ed4c4ba8bddcbb2da4b4b9&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=253263104541&itm=282736953948&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:52e94173-3017-11e9-8c85-74dbd1803c21%7Cparentrq:ea6cf01b1680a9c55fa54a94ff f73325%7Ciid:1&redirect=mobile

Making these manually is a shit ton of work due to bend so lots of grinding by hand. . . X2.

[husaberg]

Awaiting reply from Chariot

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chariot-Banshee-Cheetah-Billet-Intakes-36-41-carbs-Wont-fit-DM-only-Cheetah/282736953948?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=f525a09567ed4c4ba8bddcbb2da4b4b9&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=253263104541&itm=282736953948&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:52e94173-3017-11e9-8c85-74dbd1803c21%7Cparentrq:ea6cf01b1680a9c55fa54a94ff f73325%7Ciid:1&redirect=mobile

Making these manually is a shit ton of work due to bend so lots of grinding by hand. . . X2.

You could ask Flet he might have even made then For TSS and have a File already.
i linked the question to flet to BTW


On the other hand the bggered UPP intakes will have a steel or alloy inner and might only need the facing and taping some holes to suit with the appropriate inlet stub fitted.
here are the dimensions
http://www.allensperformance.co.uk/carb-kit/carburettor-mounting-rubber-manifold-dimension-information-page/

We also have this place
http://www.transcanimports.com/downloads/Essentials%20Catalogue/Combo%20-%20Mikuni%20Mounting%20Flanges.pdf



plus these ones
https://www.hyperracing.com/pages/products/online_store.aspx?product=61-141
340878

Looks like the 78-80 one was straight
http://www.hotfootmoto.net/productpictures/02-0004.png
http://hotfootmoto.net/store/product.php?productid=18354&cat=256&page=1

Further pics here
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/BTmanifold.htm

I dont know what reeds you have V force etc?

[Stylo]

Watching this thread with interest. Surprised at the depth of difficulty you've had thus far, far out.

Been riding the KX500 for a couple of decades now, not so much these days though but, never had a problem with the Keihin carb, not once. Jetting was always delivered rich from new, lean it out drop the needle a notch or two and you're pretty much good to go. 5 cents

[F5 Dave]

My pwk on dirtbikes have been pretty good too. Far better than mikuni. That said the tears in the manifolds can't have been useful. Just took them off. Horror story.

[F5 Dave]

The CR straights will be for a 39mm carb which, measuring a spare is 46mm od. My 35s are 42mm od. But thanks anyway.
The TSS ones were straight shot so no tilt for those fcr carbs or whatever . Mine are 35deg.

[husaberg]

My pwk on dirtbikes have been pretty good too. Far better than mikuni. That said the tears in the manifolds can't have been useful. Just took them off. Horror story.

What about the Inner supports/Backing plate Alloy or Steel? could you use the to fab a intake like you bucket one?

[Flettner]

The CR straights will be for a 39mm carb which, measuring a spare is 46mm od. My 35s are 42mm od. But thanks anyway.
The TSS ones were straight shot so no tilt for those fcr carbs or whatever . Mine are 35deg.

I machined those straight shot ones, never made any angled ones.

[husaberg]

I machined those straight shot ones, never made any angled ones.

Got any pics
i can find these off the old site. i am guess yours are the third ones
340881340882

340883

Do you still have the file flet for the CNC path
if dave was to send you one of his rubber ones would it be possible to see if it could be made to work with a altered mounting angle
it seems the ones Dave has have been ripping up all over the show, it might be a way to sell off a fair few

[F5 Dave]

These chariot ones fit the PWK35 apparently so likely my best option. There's no point Neil getting into a price war with these guys over a tiny market.

[F5 Dave]

Just been looking at old site. $58 for pair of inlets was pretty sharp!


Just bought the Chariot ones. Found a cheaper shipping option.

Just hope they fit the carbs in ok, UPP ones were offset in a little. Should be ok.

[F5 Dave]

Here by the way for archive of site for those that never saw it. Some cool parts.

Neil did you make the Flat PVs? When I changed barrels my old ones were a bit short for good match.



https://web.archive.org/web/20110816200428/http://www.twostrokeshop.com/TSS.htm

[husaberg]

Here by the way for archive of site for those that never saw it. Some cool parts.

Neil did you make the Flat PVs? When I changed barrels my old ones were a bit short for good match.



https://web.archive.org/web/20110816200428/http://www.twostrokeshop.com/TSS.htm

I waybackwhened it for the pics i got.
Fair call re parts, looks like RPM manf way have recently gone out of business
$275 for straight cut gears was cheap too, Although reading Steves first divorse blurb the made a heap but never sold them on account of wrong spec'd hardening or something?
Still sad after all these years.
I was thinking about your one, has it got the additional reservoir aka bypass,( i think Neil still had those a while back)
The bigger water impeller was $68 likely a Neil part as well.
The Rad was $750 big money then but made by local rather than Ckinky
i should get one of Calvins CR5 Cylinders
http://www.cpindinc.com/pub/view_product/63?lm=5&name=3101-9779-144
never noticed they have provision for a blade PV
Still leave the Vibing crank and 5 speed gearbox though plus cylinder reed and no electric start.
Riley Will's 500CC KTM might be better.
https://dirtbikemagazine.com/brc-ktm-500cc-2-stroke-conversion-two-stroke-tuesday/

https://www.facebook.com/brcracingcanada/videos/372329996914301/

[F5 Dave]

The Google earth of tss showed a single suburban dwelling without any garage. We'd actually talked before he set up when he saw my bike on another forum. Funnily enough one of his earliest posted was about getting scammed by someone . Ironic as alanis morriset doing something unironically.

[F5 Dave]

New manifolds showed up.

[F5 Dave]

. . . And almost fit. SMEG!@!!

[F5 Dave]

Might get lucky with a foulstroke airbox with offset. . Maybe.

[jasonu]

Dave there are rubber plumbing connectors that might work for you. I used one when I fitted a mikuni to my Maico490. Cheap and works.

[F5 Dave]

Well have to go to mitre10 at some stage, might hit the plumbing section for ideas. The airbox is as wide as it can be and still fit the frame but now the carbs are 10mm further apart due to 5mm less offset each.

[F5 Dave]

So my plan B was CB900 airbox rubbers, the outer ones have a decent gooseneck. They trade for a hundred clangers for a good set. I'd pay that to get out of this mess.

Sadly turns out they are only like 55mm where the carbs are 60. Buggeration.

I think that's it for this summers aspirations.

[husaberg]

So my plan B was CB900 airbox rubbers, the outer ones have a decent gooseneck. They trade for a hundred clangers for a good set. I'd pay that to get out of this mess.

Sadly turns out they are only like 55mm where the carbs are 60. Buggeration.

I think that's it for this summers aspirations.

I know a few sites that do rubber inlets and outlets. i will have a look.
ere you go you might as well stay with the Honda theme.
https://shop.eshifterkart.com/Intake-Boot-for-Air-Box-CR125-0364.htm
If you go to your local kart shop they likely have the joiners for the Kart pods that they use same as these.
https://www.rightkarts.co.nz/products/view/30421

https://www.claussstudios.com/store/c39/Suzuki.html
http://www.vmxunlimited.com/air-boot-honda-75-76-cr250-carb-to-air-box/

[F5 Dave]

$80 worth of Will this work?

Well, maybe. Airbox cutting time.