Performance upgrades - what you chose and why?

[R6_kid]

In this day and age where so much racing technology is passed down from the gods to us mere mortals we are blessed with some of the finest two wheelied machinery ever seen on the face of the earth.

Along with the high-spec track designed and tested bikes, we also get oodles of aftermarket bolton/replacement parts, at a fraction of the cost compared to 10 years ago.

It would seem that a lot of people go for more power when we talk about inhancing performance... a full system or just and end can, coupled with a free flow filter and fuelling management system setup with some dyno time. Some people even throw some Ohlins or other brand suspension in there for a bit of better handling.

Other things we do include chaning brake pads and brake lines for braided and race-equivalent stock aswell as replacing the OE fitment tyres with our rubber of choice.

The thing that strikes me, is that i only know of one person that has aftermarket 'race' wheels on their bike. I have seen setups advertised at around $1500-1700 a set, some including brakes aswell, for all sorts of different bikes. Now, these wheels are lighter - this enables better acceleration, braking, traction and of course better handling. Not to mention the fact that some look dead sexy. Although you may only shed 5kg off the total weight of your bike, the effective weight loss at speed in corners has been said to 'feel like the bike lost 30kg'...

What effected the decisions you made when picking aftermarket parts for your bike? Surely the aftermarket exhaust was for some noise and to remove the blandness of the OE part, and to be different from your mate, but why not a set of better brakes, wheels or suspension for the same price or even a little more?

[moT]

i guess its a balance in both power and handeling you cant have one without the other get a power mod test it get used to it see the differences then get a suspention, brake mod and see how that feels so on and so forth

[R6_kid]

it would be my guess that with the a set of lightweight wheels and some aftermarket suspension the handling increase would boost your confidence enough to out-weigh your ability to use the extra 10hp gained from a full system/filter/fuel map

[Nutter34]

Didn't Superbike or Performance bike do a test a few years back with datalogging equipment? Same bike with different riders did a course they set up. For every rider on the bike in each configuration, it was always quicker, handled better, accelerated better, etc than the stock wheels.

[Brian d marge]

Didn't Superbike or Performance bike do a test a few years back with datalogging equipment? Same bike with different riders did a course they set up. For every rider on the bike in each configuration, it was always quicker, handled better, accelerated better, etc than the stock wheels.

Yes they did ( if I remember , but the wheels didnt come out on top by much. Yes they give things an easier life , but apart from bling and a big bill we aint going to notice a lot ,
get the basics right first , chain , wheel bearing , head bearing etc ,

Put the stock stuff in the attic covered in cotton wool , throw on cheaper rebiukdable after market stuff , with the same dimensions as stock

when you sell the bike ,,its mint ( and you can sell the other stuff to a poor starving racer ..

Stephen

ignition systems can fail to ignite the mixture quite often .. and that often is getting more and mre the higher the rpm s !

[Back Fire]

The thing that strikes me, is that i only know of one person that has aftermarket 'race' wheels on their bike. I have seen setups advertised at around $1500-1700 a set, some including brakes aswell, for all sorts of different bikes. Now, these wheels are lighter - this enables better acceleration, braking, traction and of course better handling. Not to mention the fact that some look dead sexy. Although you may only shed 5kg off the total weight of your bike, the effective weight loss at speed in corners has been said to 'feel like the bike lost 30kg'...



generally, unless your talking second hand 2k's worth of A/M wheels wont save you much if any weight... theres a set out by Braking which comes with rotors... about 2k ish new... same weight as stock, but the rotors are part of the wheel casting, so fun getting new discs put on the mounts... but I agree on wheels being a very good modification... but generally for a 5kg saving your looking at $5k for a set of BST carbon fibre or cast Marchesini or their equal.... theres alot of A/M sets out there... but they are not all good

[sAsLEX]

be right back with some pics

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38987&d=1155299906
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38988&d=1155299906
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38989&d=1155299906
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38990&d=1155299906
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38991&d=1155299906


there a article on the performance....... by the way learn to search as this is often discussed qrf out.

[sAsLEX]

Didn't Superbike or Performance bike do a test a few years back with datalogging equipment? Same bike with different riders did a course they set up. For every rider on the bike in each configuration, it was always quicker, handled better, accelerated better, etc than the stock wheels.

yes thy did ..... hang on see the pics in my post....

[vifferman]

I think for most of us, we don't have unlimited budgets, and so we buy the best bike we can afford, and then there's not a lot left over for customising. Also, few of us are TrackGods, so there's not a lot of point in spending big bucks on performance bits we won't notice HUGE benefits from.

I've already got an aftermarket pipe and non-stock airfilter, a FactoryPro Evo Star shifter kit (to rectify the stock crap Honda shift action), and disabled the oxygen sensors, but if I could, the mods I'd make in order of importance would be:
1. Power Commander - I've already had a trial of a loaner one, and while it didn't provide BIG horsies, I got the odd Shetland pony or two, and it made the power delivery crisper and smoother.
2. Front end off a 'Blade or SP2, including brakes, and braided brake lines whil I'm at it..
3. HyperPro or Ohlins rear shock.
4. Rotrex supercharger, just for giggles, not because I need the power. (There's a guy in Murka who is currently doing this to the same model of VFR as mine. It's all fitted, he's just gotta fit the Wide Band Commander so he can dial in the PC.)

And that's about it. Anything else would be a waste of time and money.

[sAsLEX]

1. Power Commander - I've already had a trial of a loaner one, and while it didn't provide BIG horsies, I got the odd Shetland pony or two, and it made


but the best way to improve power by seat of the pants dyno is a big flat spot then a rapid ramp up to standard power?

[vifferman]

but the best way to improve power by seat of the pants dyno is a big flat spot then a rapid ramp up to standard power?
:yes:

Heh heh...
I'm sure that's not what happened, although some of the maps I tried felt like that. The most exciting one though was one that almost killed the engine before taking off. Needless to say, that only lasted about a kilometre...

I found the whole process of fiddling interesting in itself, regardless of the results. F'rinstance - there was a bit of a 'boggy' area around 5200 rpm, where the flapper valve opens on the airbox. I decided it must be because there was a sudden influx of air, so the bike was running too lean, and added some fuel to compensate. It didn't improve, so I added some more, which made it worse! So, I made things much leaner and it was heaps better. It appears Honda san's IT people must've added too much fuel in the standard map. Another thing I did was stick some 98 octane in, and add some fuel and up to 3 degrees of ignition advance at high revs. It sure extended the top end!

[sAsLEX]

:yes:

Heh heh...
I'm sure that's not what happened, although some of the maps I tried felt like that. The most exciting one though was one that almost killed the engine before taking off. Needless to say, that only lasted about a kilometre...

I found the whole process of fiddling interesting in itself, regardless of the results. F'rinstance - there was a bit of a 'boggy' area around 5200 rpm, where the flapper valve opens on the airbox. I decided it must be because there was a sudden influx of air, so the bike was running too lean, and added some fuel to compensate. It didn't improve, so I added some more, which made it worse! So, I made things much leaner and it was heaps better. It appears Honda san's IT people must've added too much fuel in the standard map. Another thing I did was stick some 98 octane in, and add some fuel and up to 3 degrees of ignition advance at high revs. It sure extended the top end!

They (PCIII) are continuously variable throughout the rev range aint they?

I find it weird that Yamaha, for the sake of it couldn't make a continuously vaiable length intake for their latest, wouldn't take much more computing power or complexity of components than the binary system they put in there.


And can PCIII or similar take external sensors to adjust maps at altitude, temp,humidity changes? Wouldn't be that hard and adds a whole new level of Fiddlability (tm)

[Morcs]

Personally I like to leave a bike alone, maybe except the exhaust if its quite restrictive.

Getting a standard bike (as long as you have a good one to start with) setup perfectly for you - brakes, suspension, ergonomics etc... can sometimes be far beneficial and cheaper than spending heaps on trying to up the hp figure.

The best performance upgrade I ever bought was my one-piece leathers. Gives you that much more confidence and bigger balls to go faster, brake harder, lean more.
:innocent:

[imdying]

I find it weird that Yamaha, for the sake of it couldn't make a continuously vaiable length intake for their latest, wouldn't take much more computing power or complexity of components than the binary system they put in there.I too pondered that... but when you think about it, it is very typical of the Japanese to do so.

They're not interested in building the best bikes, they interested in selling bikes. Like the brakes on the R1... radial 4 pots... didn't take a genius to see that they were going to 6 pot radials next. You think the engineers couldn't see that 2 years ago? The hell they couldn't! By fitting 4 pots, and then upgrading to 6 pots, they've extended their products life... they don't have to fit new forks etc to trick up the front end, just change the calipers. Next will probably be adding spacers (ain't radials great like that) and larger (but lighter, of course) discs.

In other words, don't be surprised if in one or two years, the R1 has a variable instead of binary length intake system. IMHO.

[Gremlin]

I upgrade whatever I like, partly for the fun of it (buying your bike presents) and partly to make it different from everyone elses, or to improve an area of the bike.

Anyone buying a decent 600+cc bike should be having their suspension set up for their riding style/roads/weight etc. The number (and variety) of people that think you can buy a bike off the showroom floor, and its perfect :mellow:

Pipes are a must for me, I love a good sound, then comes pretty much anything and everything, either coz I always wanted one, or it was on my list, and the price was too good to miss. If neither of those, if I feel something is lacking on the bike, I'll fix that first. Suspension, brakes, visual stuff, engine (could be add-ons like powercommanders, or internal work)

Only problem is insurance companies... they begin to wonder how you are riding, when the list of modifications grows and grows :devil2:

[Brian d marge]

:yes:
. It appears Honda san's IT people must've added too much fuel in the standard map. Another thing I did was stick some 98 octane in, and add some fuel and up to 3 degrees of ignition advance at high revs. It sure extended the top end!


They do

so that when you buy the new bike and throw an aftermarket pipe on it u dont give them a warranty claim ... you wouldnt believe what customers get up to

try fitting chrome clutch levers to a goldwing , slipping the clutch till it welded itself , then trying it on as a warranty claim buy fitting the old levers back on !!!

why am I thinking of Golum now ,,,them trixy them are


Stephen

[soundbeltfarm]

i reckon the best upgrade you could do is the suspension.
power is nothing if you cant get it to the ground properly and it'l make you track better in corners and everywhere.
thats my belief anyway.
a well set up bike with good suspension will make you faster than bolting on mufflers and power commanders and all that other stuff.

[vifferman]

They (PCIII) are continuously variable throughout the rev range aint they?
There's two ways it works - you can adjust the fuelling up/down using three pairs of buttons on the unit, each of which cover one third of the rev range.
The second way is using maps, which you upload from your PC. These are much more finely graduated, and have a table with revs on one axis, and throttle openings on the other. Then there's three options:

If you have a Wide Band Commander, you can just ride your bike around collecting info, then it helps you to decide where the fuelling/ignition needs altering.
Or, you choose a map that kinda matches your bike (model, airfilter, zorst), load it, and then ride, noting anywhere that feels a bit hesitant and the revs/throttle at that point. Then you look at the map, and decide whether it needs more/less fuel at the point where there's hesitation.
Stick it on a dyno and have the EGO measured and use that to adjust the fueling to a near-stoichiometric ratio.It's tricky using method 2, but if you get a map that's fairly close, it's really just a matter of riding, and (looking at just one area at a time), making an adjustment and deciding whether it's better/worse than before the change. Sometimes, you end up really confused, so you can just save the map, and load either a previous version or a ZERO map (no changes) and seeing how it compares. It's not terribly scientific, but then it's all down to feels. F'rinstance - I spent a lot of time fiddling with fueling in the 3-6k rpm range, small throttle openings. Most of the maps were more concerned with big throttle/big revs, but most of my riding was in this range, so if the fueling wasn't right, it was pharkinannoyink.



And can PCIII or similar take external sensors to adjust maps at altitude, temp,humidity changes? Wouldn't be that hard and adds a whole new level of Fiddlability (tm)
The PCII simply plugs into the ECU wiring (using the OEM plugs for your model of bike) between the ECU and EFI and modifies the signals being sent to the injectors (making them shorter or longer pulses) and to the ignition module (altering timing). The PCIII I think modifies the input signals to the ECU, but I don't think it allows provision for additional inputs. On a VFR800, there's no need for additional inputs anyway, as it already has sensors for barometric pressure, air temp, airbox pressure, engine temp, revs, EGO, cam position, throttle position, injectors, etc etc.

Another way ECUs work (Ducati, Triumph, Aprilia, etc.) is that the manufacturers offer upgrade programs for different pipes etc or for improvements made to the fuel maps and the EPROM on the ECU is either 'flashed' by the shop or a new EPROM chip is fitted. Also aftermarket 'race' chips or programs are available.

[Back Fire]

blah blah blah... engine (could be add-ons like powercommanders, or internal work)


engine... give it a new less chicken wuss gutless one:shutup: :killingme

[imdying]

F'rinstance - I spent a lot of time fiddling with fueling in the 3-6k rpm range, small throttle openings. Most of the maps were more concerned with big throttle/big revs, but most of my riding was in this range, so if the fueling wasn't right, it was pharkinannoyink.But how satisfying was it when you got it the way you like it :Punk:

[vifferman]

But how satisfying was it when you got it the way you like it :Punk:
Why, very, of course. Tempered as it was, with the realisation I had to give the PCII back, just when I'd got everything right. And then aggravated by the owner of said PCII not fitting it for munce and munce and munce, when I could've been using it... Waaahhh!! and all that...
But at least he was kind enough to let me play with it before he'd had a turn himself. Thanx, Alan! :niceone:

[Cajun]

I have made a number of mods to my bike
full yoshi s/s rs3, bmc, pc3, racetech front springs, ohlins rear to name a few. I have pretty much all these items second hand and @ good prices.

I just pick up deals as i come across them, reason i did them well for example i picked up the yoshi system second hand of a race bike, cheaper than buying a simple bolt on.

[pritch]

i reckon the best upgrade you could do is the suspension.


That is often quoted to be the best upgrade, as are variously: braided brake lines, or Power Commanders.

You'll note that exhaust tinkerings are absent from that short list.

I read a test in a magazine a while back where they tested various bikes before and after exhaust mods. The gains were at best minimal and in some cases the aftermarket cans actually produced less power than standard.

It's fine to upgrade exhaust systems but it has very little to do with performance, it's almost purely about aesthetics; how it looks, how it sounds.
One day I'll buy a bike that comes with only one can and I'll be able to consider it...

Pity my Hornet PC111 USB won't fit the VFR, but by simply(?) adding money my Ohlins will.

New all-singing all-dancing Ohlins due in the next few days...

[moko]

Best performance aid you can get is a bit of professional training.RIDE Magazine ran a feature a couple of years back with a Bike Journo,probably a better rider than most,on a Fireblade against a racer,one of the BSB guys,forget which one,on a Honda CB500,50 bhp sporty/commuter twin favoured by riding schools here,around Brands Hatch.Only place the Blade rider could pull away from a bike half as powerful was down the main straight.You can stick as many expensive parts on your bike as you want,if you can't pick the right lines,brake too early or just generally stuff up then you might as well not have bothered,on the road most of it is pretty much a waste of time anyway in normal use.If you're the kind of bloke who tunes a bike to get places quicker on public roads you're the kind of bloke who's going to get nicked or crash.Get your riding skills tweaked first,then your bike.

[N4CR]

engine... give it a new less chicken wuss gutless one:shutup: :killingme

hell yah! drop an 06 donk in it. that'll make huge gains without wasting zillions in mods on the old crapper, and he can sell the old eggbeater!

speaking of which, i have one lying around somewhere... ho humm...

best mod is the rider. followed by can/exhaust for ego boost and as many aftermarket bolt on 'i don't do jack ****' bits as you can find.

if your valentino rossi then shocks, brakes, ecu/cams/pistons/crank/casings/ and the works, cus you're probably going to use it.

[Bonez]

I lost a few more kgs in weight. The bikes go much better now................

[Storm]

I lost a few more kgs in weight. The bikes go much better now................

What- you washed the mud of them? :bleh:
:dodge:

[sAsLEX]

What- you washed the mud of them? :bleh:
:dodge:

Nah he scraped some of the rust off them

[Pwalo]

Best mods. Lose some weight (rider). Get your stock suspension sorted (bike).

Ride a lot.

[pritch]

Best performance aid you can get is a bit of professional training.

Ahh the software upgrade. Good thinking.

One reason I didn't get an after market exhaust for the Hornet was that the desired Sato Racing cans were 14lbs lighter than the standard hornet cans.

That's an important weight reduction because the weight is situated high up on the bike. I couldn't get past the thought, however, that it would be cheaper and healthier for me to lose 14lb, which weight was even higher up on the bike.

[onearmedbandit]

I agree with the personal training, looking forward to doing somew of that myself.

In the meantime I have changed the following;

1/ Ohlins Rear Shock - Obvious improvement.
2/ Ohlins Front Springs - " " " ".
3/ Ohlins Steering Damper - Better than the treacle filled original and adj.
4/ Yoshimura Tri-oval Slip-on - Better sound and looks. Not sure about power gain.
5/ Yoshimura EMS - Allows fine tuning of the injection and timing.
6/ Ignition retard eliminator - Full power in the first 3 gears now.
7/ Crescent Suzuki Rearsets - moveable to suit riders style.
8/ Brembo 4 Pot Calipers - Replace the std 6 Pots that can fade in hard use.

Done some other mod's as well, but more for individuality then power, like paint job, carbon bits here and there etc. My bike had more than enough power when I got it, any extra power I've got is a by-product of impulse buying decisions. The Ohlins gear and Brembos were the most important on the list.