Unsafe passing manouver

[slopster]

This morning on the way to the Suzuki trackday I got done for an unsafe passing manouver on SH1. I went past a parked police car and he followed me then pulled me over. He said that there had been a complaint about my overtaking. A truck I had recently overtaken showed up and the policeman went and talked to the driver about it then came back and gave me an infringement notice of $150 for an unsafe passing maneouver. I am confident that my riding is safe and that I had 100m visibility etc - it was a slight left hand sweeper and not a big margin for error but adequate. I told him this but he had already written the ticket and basically pointed out the info on the back of the notice explaining how to defend it. What I cant understand is how he can issue a ticket without even seeing the incident himself based on nothing but someone elses word. I should add that I 'might' have been traveling significantly quicker than I should have been when I first saw the police car which may not have endeared him to me but he said himself that I was lucky he didn't get a speed readout. I asked if there were any demerits with my fine and was told that they were given with all safety related infringments he wasn't sure how many but I can't afford to get too many.

How should I go about sorting this out. It seems I can either write in about it or request a court hearing. I don't really want to do that over a $150 dollar fine but I'm not just going to take it lying down.

Not a great day for me I binned my gsxr at the trackday afterward!

Any advice would be much appreciated

[boomer]

you should have told him and the truck driver to get procreating!!!! and had he insisted on giving you the ticket politely refused to accept it and be on your merry way.

bad news about the bin.. was it spectacular??

[MotoGirl]

Not a great day for me I binned my gsxr at the trackday afterward!
At least you weren't the guy who went down on the first lap!

I tell ya, it was really good for that to unfold directly in front of me when I'm still shit scared about going round corners :doh:

[slopster]

Was just a lowside but the bike did a barrel roll when it hit the grass and sand and mannaged to dammage every single fairing. Still ridable with a borrowed brake lever and a lot of duct tape.

[Mom]

If it is any consolation, there is an option to ticket for "dangerous driving" for unsafe overtaking...........what a shitty day you have had mate!!

[Colapop]

Ig ot the same fine. wehn they sent me the fibne it was only $50- so ficuk them

[yod]

defend it - at the end of the day its only the truck drivers opinion vs yours - cop has no say in it

the only thing that might count against ya is that it was a left hander so it could be argued that it was 'blind' to some degree....up to you on that one....

[White trash]

You're fucked bro. Us GSXR riders've been being victimised since 1985. I just don't understand it........

[Sanx]

It's your word against the truck driver's. If asked in court, the cop will have to state under oath (provided he's honest :mellow:) that he did not see the overtaking manouver in question.

Provided you state that you manouver was safe, that you could see clear road ahead, and that you did not cause any other vehicle to take any form of evasive action, it's hard to see how the courts could convict. The prosecution case would be based upon purely heresay evidence from a truck driver.

And of course, the truck driver's unlikely to turn up in court as a witness for the prosecution...

[Morepower]

slopster , good to meet you today hope your trip home was uneventfull.
As an aside on the way back on the Napier Taupo Rd I was going to attempt an very swift overtaking manouver of 4 cars on a right hand bend that had visibility but tightish. I got past the first car and Radar detector goes nuts so into the gap I go . Bloody first car , a Silver Honda was the cop. I thought he would get me for something but he left me alone , thankfully he hit his radar or he may have seen me going a little to fast :)

Dave

[Karma]

Thing with taking it to court... what about costs? If you win the case do the police cover the court costs?

Also... given how a majority of truck drivers drive I'd be tempted to follow that guy around all day and then *555 him every time he runs an amber light or doesn't come to a full stop at the STOP sign ;)

[Cr1MiNaL]

What a moron that stupid truk driver... he must be jealous tht u ride a bike n he can only plod along at retarded speeds / either that or he just hates bikes... I know 1 or 2 guys that do.... old farts thats what they r... I got pulled over in ma cage once for the same charge. when the copper told me I laughed n asked him if he was serious? I said well ill just go on calling in every other car on the road sayin oh hes drivin like a retard and is a danger on the road hows that? wheres the proof for the ticket? he advised me he could still giv me a ticket and I could dispute it if I wanted to ... I was like thats so dumb to his face... n he just let me off with a warning... (besides I had a clean record) no fines in 7 yrs... luky me, either that or I ride like a nana.

Ps: how did u bin it?

also just call up ur friendly district attourney on the ph on monday and ask for advice... court charges/ the legalities etc... ull have a better understanding of the situation ur in that way.

Cheers Raj.

[Holy Roller]

I had a truck blow his air horns as I came up alongside him of all the stupidist things to do. Completed the passing manouver with plenty of clear road ahead. Some people just don't think, what would have happened if I had got distracted and crashed because of his stupidity who would have carried the blame. Mind you sitting on 90kph all day would be total torture.

[mark247]

Write a letter in and just dont pay for as long as possible.

I just got a $400 for riding a 400cc bike on my learners. Thing is, i had an exemption to do so but it was only allocated to my old 400cc's bike number plate, and that bike shat itself so i got a new one, first day riding it i get pinged. Sad thing is i had called the LTSA about it to try get the exemption transfered over to my new bikes number plate and they said i had to write in to do that / reapply. So im in the middle of doing that right now. I explained this all to the cop.

Cop was a total pancake.

I wrote in a letter of complaint saying im not paying it etc etc the morning after it happened. But i did write it as politely as possible explaining my position.

[McJim]

What sort of bike does the Truckie ride?

Motorbikes can perform safe maneouvres in a much smaller distance that 4 wheeled vehicles (or trucks for that matter) we, as motorcyclists, know this. So what qualified the truckie do accurately decide that which is safe and that which is unsafe?

[davereid]

Write in and say you deny the offence and will defend it. Likely it will go away without ever going to court. Even if it does go to court, its the truck drivers opinion only, V your opinion. There was no accident, and no other witnesses, you will likely win. Its worth defending, as there are driving demerits associated. You can alawys get more $$ but licence points are limited !

[pzkpfw]

Mind you sitting on 90kph all day would be total torture.


That's a Tui ad.


It's one of the things I hate about speed cameras.

If the things are set to take photos at some speed over 100km/h - how do they catch trucks (or cars with trailers) going over 90?


(Not that I mind; better for the trucks to be doing 100 when they can... but why are laws so unevenly policed?)

[scumdog]

It's your word against the truck driver's. If asked in court, the cop will have to state under oath (provided he's honest :mellow:) that he did not see the overtaking manouver in question.


And of course, the truck driver's unlikely to turn up in court as a witness for the prosecution...


Hmm, GENERALLY a ticket would not get written out UNLESS the witness (truck driver) said they were prepared to go to Court and give evidence about the offence.
So it wouldn't be hear-say then.

You could elect to defend the ticket and let the judge decide if it was indeed 'unsafe'.....

[Patrick]

That's a Tui ad.


It's one of the things I hate about speed cameras.

If the things are set to take photos at some speed over 100km/h - how do they catch trucks (or cars with trailers) going over 90?


(Not that I mind; better for the trucks to be doing 100 when they can... but why are laws so unevenly policed?)

They can do the occasional 90kmph blitz... place the camera on "standby" while the cars and bikes pass by, reset as the trucks etc approach... dunno if it happens often enough though, if at all.

[Pancakes]

Cop was a total pancake.

Oh shit!! I'm a cuss word!!

[Sanx]

place the camera on "standby" while the cars and bikes pass by

Or ... leave the camera on and set to trigger at 90kph catching everyone who goes by regardless of vehicle type, and then only discover the 'accident' should a driver or rider question why he got a ticket.

Wierd thing is, the technology to automatically adjust cameras for vehicle type has been around for a long time. One of the NZ car magazines raised this exact issue with the Police a couple of years ago. The cops passed it on to the Police Complaints Authority as the letter accused them of bias (which it did - the letter was badly written and emotive). The complaint, of course, then just got buried never to surface again.

[mark247]

Oh shit!! I'm a cuss word!!

no offence intended pancakes.

[MSTRS]

Hmm, GENERALLY a ticket would not get written out UNLESS the witness (truck driver) said they were prepared to go to Court and give evidence about the offence.
So it wouldn't be hear-say then.

You could elect to defend the ticket and let the judge decide if it was indeed 'unsafe'.....

Do you really think the truckie would go to all that trouble? Unlikely.
Write in and defend, defend, defend.
Could also offer to take the judge on pillion and show him what you did??

[90s]

... Even if it does go to court, its the truck drivers opinion only, V your opinion...

Scumdog would have a better idea of this, but the way I see it could pan out would be this:

The section of road (left-hand sweeper, visibility) is the context here. Cops and van driver can BOTH attest that they think overtaking at this location would be dangerous at any time etc. And who might the decision go with?
Its an opinion sure, but not one of whether the event was dangerous but the context, which they can make an objective case out of. Add to this there is ALSO the still opinion of the truckie, as a "professional", that he felt he needed to react to a maneouvre badly executed.

The dice are loaded against us when we defend a complaint, and they hope that we pay the fine to make it all go away.

Hope it works out for you but da man, well, he mighty powerful.

[chris]

Take Todd's advice and publish the truckie's rego.

[Sanx]

The section of road (left-hand sweeper, visibility) is the context here. Cops and van driver can BOTH attest that they think overtaking at this location would be dangerous at any time etc. And who might the decision go with?

What's dangerous in a car or truck is not necessarily dangerous on a bike. Secondly the offence is not 'overtaking at a location which is dangerous' but an 'unsafe passing manouver' - which necessarily involves the Crown proving that this particular manouver was unsafe. The cop didn't see it, so he cannot comment other than to report what the truckie said. Whether or not he feels the location is unsafe is irrelevant.

[slopster]

To give a bit more detail of the passing I came over a crest and from my elevated position I could clearly see around the gentle left hand corner before moving into the right lane where I could still see all the way to the next crest so visability was not a problem. The policeman being a local highway patrolman was familiar with the corner from driving it previously. I intended to take a photo of the corner on my way home that arvo but couldn't remember exactly which one it was.

[Patrick]

Oh shit!! I'm a cuss word!!

No, you're cuss words, plural!!

[Patrick]

Scumdog would have a better idea of this, but the way I see it could pan out would be this:

The section of road (left-hand sweeper, visibility) is the context here. Cops and van driver can BOTH attest that they think overtaking at this location would be dangerous at any time etc. And who might the decision go with?
Its an opinion sure, but not one of whether the event was dangerous but the context, which they can make an objective case out of. Add to this there is ALSO the still opinion of the truckie, as a "professional", that he felt he needed to react to a maneouvre badly executed.

The dice are loaded against us when we defend a complaint, and they hope that we pay the fine to make it all go away.

Hope it works out for you but da man, well, he mighty powerful.

How about a helmet cam showing your view perspective? Might show total vis throughout (or not... DOH!)

EDIT ; Just read your post about not knowing which corner... DOH... DOH!!

[McJim]

If you defend it it's your word against the truckie's which corner it was.

It's your word against the truckie's which of the passing bikes was you.

It's your word against the truckie's that you even overtook anyone on that stretch of road.

If he has singled out the wrong bike then he's wasting Police time and should be facing charges himself.

[Pancakes]

No, you're cuss words, plural!!

My mum always said I'd make something of myself! :Punk:



Back to the topic,
My brain says that if you did have viz and it was safe you'll be ok but my gut says that the man's gonna fu*k you in the bum.

[90s]

What's dangerous in a car or truck is not necessarily dangerous on a bike. Secondly the offence is not 'overtaking at a location which is dangerous' but an 'unsafe passing manouver' - which necessarily involves the Crown proving that this particular manouver was unsafe. The cop didn't see it, so he cannot comment other than to report what the truckie said. Whether or not he feels the location is unsafe is irrelevant.

McJim has a good point, if you want to play it that way (remember you have spoken to the cop - did you deny overtaking anything?)

But Sanx your points:
>"What's dangerous in a car or truck is not necessarily dangerous on a bike."
Has absolutely no bearing on anything from a legal perspective. There is no distinction here.
> "Secondly the offence is not 'overtaking at a location which is dangerous' but an 'unsafe passing manouver'" - the reason it can be argued to unsafe is because of the location and context
>"which necessarily involves the Crown proving that this particular manouver was unsafe" see above - ie. in a location it could be argued that ANY overtaking would be unsafe in context
(note I do not know the corner, but without even seeing it this is what I would argue in court)
>"The cop didn't see it, so he cannot comment other than to report what the truckie said. Whether or not he feels the location is unsafe is irrelevant"
The cop can still give his assessment as to the location. It is absoultely relevant to comment on the location even if he did not witness the event. The two are unconnected. Anyone called by the crown to assess the location can give their evidence.

Now what you can argue in your favour is that if the location is too dangerous for clear overtaking it should be marked such. But if you search for similar cases here to this one you will find that people have lost in court or accepted the fine because of the difficulties involved.

Now I am absolutely in favour of getting this dismissed on any of the grounds that people have suggested. But if it did go further to court it is my opinion that it could pan out this way, and that a defence would not be simple. Common sense has absolutely nothing to do with the law.

[swbarnett]

Common sense has absolutely nothing to do with the law.

And this is why it loses so much credibility and the police have such a hard time with being disrespected.

[scumdog]

And this is why it loses so much credibility and the police have such a hard time with being disrespected.

Not this boy......

[MSTRS]

Not this boy......

You got three hands?....pepper spray, baton, taser....how do you choose?
"Ar'm a gunna learn ya sum rispikt boay"

[90s]

You got three hands?....pepper spray, baton, taser....how do you choose?
"Ar'm a gunna learn ya sum rispikt boay"

erm ... because that's not a baton!

[MSTRS]

erm ... because that's not a baton!

Oh....four hands?

[slopster]

I did say I overtook the truck and gave a brief description to the officer more or less what I wrote in here. I also admitted that I was 'probably going faster then the speed limit' but that was all. I certainly denied that it was unsafe (because it wasn't).

[spudchucka]

Just defend it. No truckie is going to take a day off work to give evidence in court over a bloody traffic ticket.

[MSTRS]

Just defend it. No truckie is going to take a day off work to give evidence in court over a bloody traffic ticket.

Wot I said....no witness, no crime. Hearsay just doesn't cut it in law.

[spudchucka]

Wot I said....no witness, no crime. Hearsay just doesn't cut it in law.

Its not hearsay if the witness actually turns up, I'd just be willing to bet that a truckie isn't going to bother.

[MSTRS]

That's what I meant. Cop's 'evidence' is hearsay. Case dismissed.

[scumdog]

That's what I meant. Cop's 'evidence' is hearsay. Case dismissed.

Ah well, at least 'somebody' might ride a tad more cautiously after all this.

Maybe they won't learn either.

[MSTRS]

The thing is...how many (perfectly safe) actions do you/we perform while on a bike, that cagers think are dodgy? Nothing to learn if situation was as described.
But if truckie was correct, then fair enough - :hitcher:

[90s]

... so, you decided what you'll do yet?

[Tim 39]

Not a great day for me I binned my gsxr at the trackday afterward!

you didnt do it while passing someone did you?:p
the cops seem to be able to ruin any day quite nicely

[scumdog]

you didnt do it while passing someone did you?:p
the cops seem to be able to ruin any day quite nicely

Well life is hell for me then - I have to ruin my own days!!:dodge:

[jafar]

Well life is hell for me then - I have to ruin my own days!!:dodge:

Does this mean you give yourself tickets :Police: :doh:

[Patrick]

Does this mean you give yourself tickets :Police: :doh:

Hey... now there is an idea....

I can give myself a ticket, and then complain about it on here and make up shit about how much of an arsehole I was...:dodge: :shutup:

[Sanx]

... make up shit about how much of an arsehole I was...

You'd have to make it up? :bleh:

[jafar]

Hey... now there is an idea....

I can give myself a ticket, and then complain about it on here and make up shit about how much of an arsehole I was...:dodge: :shutup:

There's an idea, then you can complain to the police complaints authority about yourself & get suspended on full pay while they investigate YOU :shutup: :clap: :rofl: :2guns:

[slopster]

I'm going to write a letter in when I get the reminder notice in the mail. I'm holding off first til I get that just in case the policeman changed his mind and didn't submit his copy of the paperwork. Unlikely but I've heard of such things happening - 15 days and counting

[rwh]

Hey... now there is an idea....

I can give myself a ticket, and then complain about it on here and make up shit about how much of an arsehole I was...:dodge: :shutup:

While helping to maintain your quota :)

Richard

[sAsLEX]

Ah well, at least 'somebody' might ride a tad more cautiously after all this.

Maybe they won't learn either.

or its one more case of someone being stitched up because some member of the public has a problem with bikes, and maybe its one more person that wont stop for the red and blues.....

[Renegade]

just defend it, take your photos of the road etc and put it to the judge, if you win you saved $150, if you lose they add $30 court costs to your fine, then pay it off $5 a week.

i'd say the truckie wont show up though, cop will just pull it as it wont count towards his prefered ticket quota i.e speed, seatbelts.

[scumdog]

just defend it, take your photos of the road etc and put it to the judge, if you win you saved $150, if you lose they add $30 court costs to your fine, then pay it off $5 a week.

i'd say the truckie wont show up though, cop will just pull it as it wont count towards his prefered ticket quota i.e speed, seatbelts.

A ticket's a ticket sonny Jim, 'prefered' don't come into it...

And in the bosses eyes speed, seatbelts, drink-driving, dangerous overtaking etc etc are all listed as 'crash and/or injury causing"...

[Renegade]

A ticket's a ticket sonny Jim, 'prefered' don't come into it...

And in the bosses eyes speed, seatbelts, drink-driving, dangerous overtaking etc etc are all listed as 'crash and/or injury causing"...

i beleive the term is "trauma promoting offences" and i guess your boss is giving you a different direction and "bench mark" for what he\she deems to be acceptable.

[spudchucka]

i'd say the truckie wont show up though, cop will just pull it as it wont count towards his prefered ticket quota i.e speed, seatbelts.

The ticket counts as a stat regardless of whether or not it is defended. If it gets pulled it will be because the witness doesn't turn up, in which case the police have no evidence. Preferred traffic offences have absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Patrick]

cop will just pull it as it wont count towards his prefered ticket quota i.e speed, seatbelts.

Accident promoting offences... (excluding speed and seatbelts) - 35% of all tickets issued is what is wanted.
If it is issued, it counts, regardless of the outcome.


i beleive the term is "trauma promoting offences" and i guess your boss is giving you a different direction and "bench mark" for what he\she deems to be acceptable.

Could be right herer, different districts have different bosses who may see things... differently... but the 35% mentioned above is a national thing.

[rphenix]

I just got a $400 for riding a 400cc bike on my learners. Thing is, i had an exemption

How do you get an exception? i.e. under what circumstances can you justify it? Shits me to be stuck on 250cc now when im used to much higher hehe.

[_Shrek_]

just write in and say you dont accept the ticket for the allegded offence as it did not happen nor do you accept that the policemanon can go on what the truckie has to say when you had 100m clear visibility through out the hole manoever at 100kms per hr
its worth a try and you have 28 days before they send you a reminder

[slopster]

I've written my letter in and I'll just wait and see what happens

[slopster]

I got my response today the straight of a template "we have carefully considered......etc etc etc". They wont waive the offence and so I intend to take it to court. I need to write in and request a court hearing and request full disclosure. How do I do that do I just say in my letter that I'm requesting full disclosure or do I need to specify everything I want disclosed, policemans note book, witness statement etc.

[Max Preload]

I got my response today the straight of a template "we have carefully considered......etc etc etc". They wont waive the offence and so I intend to take it to court. I need to write in and request a court hearing and request full disclosure. How do I do that do I just say in my letter that I'm requesting full disclosure or do I need to specify everything I want disclosed, policemans note book, witness statement etc.

They always respond with that first - it's policy, just like insurance company policy is to initially deny your claim.

You're entitled to disclosure of anything to be used against you in the defended hearing. It'll likely be before JP's.

[Lou Girardin]

you should have told him and the truck driver to get procreating!!!! and had he insisted on giving you the ticket politely refused to accept it and be on your merry way.



And get arrested, great advice!

[Lou Girardin]

I got my response today the straight of a template "we have carefully considered......etc etc etc". They wont waive the offence and so I intend to take it to court. I need to write in and request a court hearing and request full disclosure. How do I do that do I just say in my letter that I'm requesting full disclosure or do I need to specify everything I want disclosed, policemans note book, witness statement etc.

Defend it. Do you think the truckie will lose a days pay to appear as a witness?
The cops are bluffing. I bet they'll fold when you notify them of your request for a hearing.

[boomer]

And get arrested, great advice!

it wasn't advice.. it was my opinion... had i offered advice i would have charged him

[heathen]

It's alredy been said in this thread, but in my opinion you should defend it.
I went through a similar instance a few years ago now, I was cruisin along a SH in my cage when I came up on some git doin about 35km, he was slowin down,stradling the white line and it appeared he was gettin ready to turn right into a road on the right that was about 25m away( he wasnt indicating). I slowed down a little, realised that he was turning right so just carried on past him on his left as the road was wide and was plenty of room...
A couple of days later a cop knocked on my door with a dangerous driving charge, the git in the car stated i had passed him on the left at speed, sidways in the gravel....lying prick!!!.......long story short, I denied the charge and went about takin photo's and measuring out distances in preparation to my impending court appearance, a court date was set, and the ol git wouldnt turn up to court as he didnt want his identity known.....the judge dismissed the case and all i had to pay was $50 court fees which pissed me off, why should I have to pay when I'm not guilty???
I paid the $50 and ran...... Sideways in the gravel indeed????..........it was grass!!!!! :laugh:

Deny the charge!!

with a bit of luck the truckie is from Dunedin.

[Farab]

Hi Slopster, sorry to hear! This is the same rediculous shit I went to see Wayne Mapp about! Getting warnings, fines, etc in the mail, purely based on someone's hear-say. Keep us updated!

[slopster]

Update:
I've been told that the matter has been fowarded to the court haven't been given a date yet. I've been given a copy of the police file.

It says (in vebatim)
"South on SH1
Driving complaint
Re passing on bend in dip just north of Tutukau rd. Over takes truck into and around bend. Truck is A1 transporter (rego given)
Was speeding but unable to detect.

Explanation given: Saw road ahead before passing. It was clear."

Thats all that was in the file apart from copies of my own two letters to them.

Waiting for a court date now would appreciate any advice on how the hearing will be run.

[Max Preload]

There is, I guess, still the issue of you not having 100m of clear road visible throughout the entire overtaking manouvre (given it was a left hander).

[McJim]

Just serves as a timely reminder when stopped to say "Wasn't me mate - you must've seen the bike that shot past me, boy he was travelling weren't he?"

[slopster]

Couldn't deny it was me because I rode past the parked police car not more then 30 seconds after passing the truck. The left hander was gentle enough to maintin 100m vis.

[Max Preload]

Couldn't deny it was me because I rode past the parked police car not more then 30 seconds after passing the truck. The left hander was gentle enough to maintin 100m vis.

Hardly seems enough time to *555 you.

I worded that badly - you should not overtake unless you'll still have 100m of clear road once you have finished passing. Although that's completely impractical on 99% of NZ roads, especially in a car when the cunts speed up for passsing lanes when you show any signs of overtaking their 80km/h ass.

[slopster]

Hardly seems enough time to *555 you.


I didn't get pulled over there and then. The policeman pulled me over about 7-8km down the road after he'd received his complaint. I don't even know if it was a *555 or if the truckie stopped and talked to the parked policeman.

[duckonin]

Slopster page 3 post 38, your big mistake was and the cop will use this in court was you admitted to him you were speeding,he has got you good, at anytime never admit anything at all bite your tounge and let them do all the talking, they have to prove thier accusations...

In the disclouser he says "was speeding" unable to detect so why did he put that in there..Der...you told him you were speeding, all of his evidence will be based around this on fact, you made his job easy, you wouln't be going to court if the prick thought he was wasting the courts time..

hope I am wrong... I now stand in front of the wankers look at them hard as and say nothing to them this really pisses them off know end..

Best of luck on the case matey !!!!

[marty]

i'd agree with the 'sunk for admitting speeding', as it goes to the 'unsafeness' of the passing manouver.

however,

write and ask again for full disclosure, pm me with an e-mail address and i'll mail you a copy of a request for disclosure that got me off a council parking ticket for no WOF (and they NEVER pull parking tickets....) plus i have a little experience in discovery requests so know what tends to get a result :)

[scumdog]

hope I am wrong... I now stand in front of the wankers look at them hard as and say nothing to them this really pisses them off know end..

Best of luck on the case matey !!!!


So,,, another one knows how to piss cops off eh?

Well I wish somebody would tell ME it was meant to piss me off!!

But seriously apart from the above useless-after-the-event info you've been getting I suggest you ask for full disclosure as Marty said, the case sounds a tad 'iffy' if what you say is fact, good luck with it.

[slopster]

Well yes I did admit I might have been speeding. When I went past the policeman not when I overtook the truck. And I didn't give any indication of how fast I was going. Speeding could be 105kmh. Actually I don't know how fast I was going but it wasn't at the lose you licence end of the spectrum. I did ask for full disclosure and already posted everything they sent me which was just a copy of the ticket and a small entry from the officers notes which I've already posted.

[TOTO]

This morning on the way to the Suzuki trackday I got done for an unsafe passing manouver on SH1. I went past a parked police car and he followed me then pulled me over. He said that there had been a complaint about my overtaking. A truck I had recently overtaken showed up and the policeman went and talked to the driver about it then came back and gave me an infringement notice of $150 for an unsafe passing maneouver. I am confident that my riding is safe and that I had 100m visibility etc - it was a slight left hand sweeper and not a big margin for error but adequate. I told him this but he had already written the ticket and basically pointed out the info on the back of the notice explaining how to defend it. What I cant understand is how he can issue a ticket without even seeing the incident himself based on nothing but someone elses word. I should add that I 'might' have been traveling significantly quicker than I should have been when I first saw the police car which may not have endeared him to me but he said himself that I was lucky he didn't get a speed readout. I asked if there were any demerits with my fine and was told that they were given with all safety related infringments he wasn't sure how many but I can't afford to get too many.

How should I go about sorting this out. It seems I can either write in about it or request a court hearing. I don't really want to do that over a $150 dollar fine but I'm not just going to take it lying down.

Not a great day for me I binned my gsxr at the trackday afterward!

Any advice would be much appreciated


I think that whatever the cop told you is a lot of bollocks. I'll explain.

Maybe a year ago , I was following a guy on harbour bridge in a hilux that ws going left and right , clearly intoxicated. Phoned the police , followed the hilux to his house, watched him have difficulty opening the door and kept the police on the phone the whole time and told them he almost crashed on 4 places. They cam AFTER the guy had gone to his house. The police responce was: we can not do anything because we havent seen him commit the offence. When they talked to him , they could tell he's been drinking.
I think you've just found a cop whos had a bad day and hess blamed you for it. I say , make a complaint.:nono:

[scumdog]

I think that whatever the cop told you is a lot of bollocks. I'll explain.

Maybe a year ago , I was following a guy on harbour bridge in a hilux that ws going left and right , clearly intoxicated. Phoned the police , followed the hilux to his house, watched him have difficulty opening the door and kept the police on the phone the whole time and told them he almost crashed on 4 places. They cam AFTER the guy had gone to his house. The police responce was: we can not do anything because we havent seen him commit the offence. When they talked to him , they could tell he's been drinking.
I think you've just found a cop whos had a bad day and hess blamed you for it. I say , make a complaint.:nono:

I think the pertinent point in htis post was: 'Many a year ago'

Things have changed.

[TOTO]

Things have changed.


Interesting, maybe you are right. Can we have a police advise on this? Is a police officer able to give a fine based on acusations only ? Very interesting.

[scumdog]

Interesting, maybe you are right. Can we have a police advise on this? Is a police officer able to give a fine based on acusations only ? Very interesting.

I was meaning more the angle of speaking to and processing a drunk driver once he got home.

Use to be once he was on his property he could order you off it.

[TOTO]

I see. you are saing that the situations are not really comparable. Point taken.

[fireliv]

Ok so what you need to to do is make sure a court date get issued. As it is an infringment you will be appearing most likely in front of 2 JP's. Unfortunatly you wont be eligable to have a duty solicitor in court, but call up you local community law centre and get some free advice off them.
When you appear in court, enter a Not guilty plea and you will be remanded for a hearing date. Make sure you ask in open court for disclosure, telling them that you dont think what you have recieved is full disclosure.
Before the hearing try and get pictures of the area. Like you say it will come down to your word against his.
At the hearing you will get to question the truck driver as well, so try and think of some relavent questions that might help your case. Make sure you listen to what the witness says in evidence so that you ask questions that are in respose to some of that.
The other thing the JPs will want to know is about case law, which is any other cases that were heard in the DIstrict court before a Judge or any higher courts that are similar to your case that might help you. If you dont know/cant find any then dont stress. Again the community law centre might be able to help.
If not get your oown lawyer, costly of course.

Lets hope that the truckky wont wanna give evidence or the prosecutor thinks that there is no case cos then it will just get withdrawn
Good luck!

[homer]

It's your word against the truck driver's. If asked in court, the cop will have to state under oath (provided he's honest :mellow:) that he did not see the overtaking manouver in question.

Provided you state that you manouver was safe, that you could see clear road ahead, and that you did not cause any other vehicle to take any form of evasive action, it's hard to see how the courts could convict. The prosecution case would be based upon purely heresay evidence from a truck driver.

And of course, the truck driver's unlikely to turn up in court as a witness for the prosecution...

Id be going to court man
if they have a complaint they can only come to your house and warn you if they didnt actually see it .
or stop and warn you
by the way check the day and date and location on the infringement it could be incorrect and then still go to court with it
no good writing in about it . dont go and complain at the station either ,they can write a new notice then and there so it is then correct

[slopster]

Yeah I've been given a court date of 7 december. I cant believe how long this has dragged out. I'll keep you posted.

[steveb64]

Thing with taking it to court... what about costs? If you win the case do the police cover the court costs?

Also... given how a majority of truck drivers drive I'd be tempted to follow that guy around all day and then *555 him every time he runs an amber light or doesn't come to a full stop at the STOP sign ;)

If you did - have a camera setup on your bike, so you can get video evidence. That'll stand up in court!

I think (IMO), that to get off, you may need to go to the corner where you passed the truck, measure it up, and draw a scale diagram, showing that you had visibility around the corner (from the RH lane). AND, call the truck driver AND the cop as witnesses. The cop may show, but I bet the truckie will lose more than $150 if he has to stuff around for half a day in court - or more... and likely won't bother...

[Max Preload]

At the bare minimum the cop's evidence is mere hearsay. Without the truck driver's testimony, it's a dead duck - he is the informant after all.

[ElCoyote]

It's your word against the truck driver's. If asked in court, the cop will have to state under oath (provided he's honest :mellow:) that he did not see the overtaking manouver in question.

Provided you state that you manouver was safe, that you could see clear road ahead, and that you did not cause any other vehicle to take any form of evasive action, it's hard to see how the courts could convict. The prosecution case would be based upon purely heresay evidence from a truck driver.

And of course, the truck driver's unlikely to turn up in court as a witness for the prosecution...

If it's any consolation the chances of the truck driver turning up for court is zilch. If he's employed the boss will veto it and if he's self employed he will not lose money especially with the possibility of the case being adjourned and having to do it again.:niceone:

[slopster]

I was going to be going to court tomorrow. Today I got a letter from the police saying that they were no longer going to prosecute because they couldn't get hold of the truck driver (who would have guessed!). Nice to know that I'm off the hook but I'm pretty fucked off that they dragged it out this long. I had already organised a day off work and brought some nice clothes to go to court in. I wonder how many people would have just paid the fine and taken the demerit points.

[Max Preload]

Congratulations! :first: :beer:

[spudchucka]

I was going to be going to court tomorrow. Today I got a letter from the police saying that they were no longer going to prosecute because they couldn't get hold of the truck driver (who would have guessed!).

Shit aye? There's a surprise!

[MSTRS]

Nice to be able to say "Told you..."
:niceone:

[steveb64]

Sweet! :clap: And you got some new clothes too! Yeah - I know - you'd rather have spent it on the bike... but good kit ALWAYS comes in handy sooner or later... ...even if only for a job interview - or a hot date :msn-wink:...

[Renegade]

why would the cop have even bothered to scratch the ticket out in the first place is what gets me, being a HP cop he shoulda been around long enough to work out which ones are worth it.

this one wasnt,