Scientist please confirm!?!

[degrom]

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Is it true that when you charge up a Capacitor and release the charge you get more current than what the charging source is giving when it is charging the capacitor?

I get the idea it can be true... A capacitor is like a battery that releases all it's power at once right?

[degrom]

Found another interesting thing about the same idea...
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[Filterer]

Well I haven't watch your videos (they are like 10min long!)

but

Your terminology is slightly off, however essentially you are right a capacitor can release its stored ENERGY a lot faster then a battery, or even for instance mains power

Depending on the resistance of the circuit that you connect it to it can release this ENERGY a lot faster thus has higher POWER (ie Energy per unit time) then a battery

When connected to a low resistance circuit such as a short circuit KAPOW

However you only get half the energy back out that you put into charging the capacitor because there are losses when charging.

[degrom]

Well I haven't watch your videos (they are like 10min long!)

but

Your terminology is slightly off, however essentially you are right a capacitor can release its stored ENERGY a lot faster then a battery, or even for instance mains power

Depending on the resistance of the circuit that you connect it to it can release this ENERGY a lot faster thus has higher POWER (ie Energy per unit time) then a battery

When connected to a low resistance circuit such as a short circuit KAPOW

However you only get half the energy back out that you put into charging the capacitor because there are losses when charging.

They are a bit long...

Say I have a transformer that is 500ma. I charge a Capacitor up... What will the amps be when you short the capacitor?

More or less than the 500ma?

I am sure it will be more than 500ma...

[limbimtimwim]

I am sure it will be more than 500ma...Put your tongue on it and report back to us.

[Filterer]

Yes the AMPS will be fuck loads more - The exact amount of fuck loads more depends on the properties of the capacitor. Out of interest how many farads is the capacitor?

Edit: And the voltage of the transformer?

[Steam]

It will be bloody a lot more than 500ma!!!
My tutor at uni got a wacking great capacitor from somewhere, one as big as a bucket, more that a foot high. He charged it up, put a big screwdriver with a shaft about 1cm thick across the points (rigged up a string-operated thing so he could do it from 20m or so away) and it VAPOURISED the screwdriver. There was a massive flash and bang and there was only a charred handle left. Cool. Drifting green smoke. Or maybe that was just the afterimage of the flash.
Ask Lard Embargo (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=8367), he knows, he built his own tesla coil.

[Jantar]

They are a bit long...

Say I have a transformer that is 500ma. I charge a Capacitor up... What will the amps be when you short the capacitor?

More or less than the 500ma?

I am sure it will be more than 500ma...

That depends on the voltage that the capacitor is charged up to, and the resistance of the circuit that it is being discharged into.

[degrom]

Yes the AMPS will be fuck loads more - The exact amount of fuck loads more depends on the properties of the capacitor. Out of interest how many farads is the capacitor?

Edit: And the voltage of the transformer?

I don't have specs on it..

Basically lots of amps is need to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.

By using capacitors you might be able to use a weaker power sources to
split water over a longer period.

[Filterer]

That depends on the voltage that the capacitor is charged up to, and the resistance of the circuit that it is being discharged into.

We already established that he was going to short circuit it so likely less then .1 ohms, id imagine the 500mA transformer is 12 v as well

[jester67]

Bloody sparkies are lunatics...smoke should stay in the little tubes...when smoke leak out...baaaddd. Baaaddd smoke...go back in tube...

[degrom]

Put your tongue on it and report back to us.

Can I use one of those big capacitors you get from an old CRT monitor?:gob:

[Jantar]

I don't have specs on it..

Basically lots of amps is need to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.

By using capacitors you might be able to use a weaker power sources to
split water over a longer period.
Not so, a very weak current is all that is needed, but then the quantities of gas obtained will be small.

One of the basic rules of science is that the energy required to split water into 2H2 and O2 is equal to or greater than the energy recovered by recombining 2H2 and O2 to form 2H2O.

[cowpoos]

Bloody sparkies are lunatics...smoke should stay in the little tubes...when smoke leak out...baaaddd. Baaaddd smoke...go back in tube...
arn't you talking about valves?

[Mom]

you are right a capacitor can release its stored ENERGY a lot faster then a battery
You are telling me, and whats more the release of that energy can be very spectacular :shit:


Bloody sparkies are lunatics...smoke should stay in the little tubes...when smoke leak out...baaaddd. Baaaddd smoke...go back in tube...

Meh.......little smoke filled tubes are nothing to be afraid of even when they start leaking..........vaccuum cleaners that let out their smoke are to be respected! :yes: You would not believe how much smoke one of them babies can hold :shutup:

[zooter]

The modern equivalent to playing with matches.:nono:

Camera flash is basically a capacitor that discharges through a bulb in a controlled fashion. I hear you can make firecrackers of some serious bang by taking the capacitor and shorting it instead. Take an eye out pretty easily too.

[Filterer]

Other wise another great use for them is to charge them up and use them as a cattle prod on people!

[Fooman]

It will be bloody a lot more than 500ma!!!
My tutor at uni got a wacking great capacitor from somewhere, one as big as a bucket, more that a foot high. He charged it up, put a big screwdriver with a shaft about 1cm thick across the points (rigged up a string-operated thing so he could do it from 20m or so away) and it VAPOURISED the screwdriver. There was a massive flash and bang and there was only a charred handle left. Cool. Drifting green smoke. Or maybe that was just the afterimage of the flash.
Ask Lard Embargo (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=8367), he knows, he built his own tesla coil.

Many moons ago during a 1st year physics paper, the lecturer (Andre von Biel - was actually a Prussian count I think) did a similar thing - he trundled out this huge transformer and capacitor on a trolley, and proceeded to charge the capacitor at 1000 V with 1000 J of energy (E = 1/2 x V x Q), so Q = 2 Coulombs or so - meaning the capacitor had a capacitance of 0.002 Farads or so - pretty big!

He the proceeded to discharge it through a length of wire in a millisecond or so meaning there was on average 1 000 000 watts (or a megawatt, or ~ 1330 hp) going through this little wire, which suddenly decided to vapourise with a sound like a gun going off...scared the shit out of those not paying attention or asleep (class of 200 or so).

Strange character, Dr von Biel - he used the skin of his dead cat to generate static electricity for demonstrations...

Cheers,
FM

[limbimtimwim]

I think some have not watched and listened to the first video carefully enough.

In the first video the proposed technology is not:
"Use a capacitor to build up a big charge and then use that to zap a bucket of water"

I can't see how that would be more efficient than conventional hydrogen production methods, so I guess that isn't very useful.

The proposal is:
"Use water as the Dielectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric) in a capacitor".

So it appears if you build up the charge enough (And gently) that when your dielectric (The water) suddenly starts conducting electricity, it explodes (How violently, I wonder..) and breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen.

The electricity input into the capacitor can be reused, it was released when the water ceased to store the current. It was still a capacitor, right?

That's clever. If it actually works.

[Jantar]

So it appears if you build up the charge enough (And gently) that when your dielectric (The water) suddenly starts conducting electricity, it explodes (How violently, I wonder..) and breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen.

The electricity input into the capacitor can be reused, it was released when the water ceased to store the current. It was still a capacitor, right?
.
When the di-electric (water) breaksdown and starts conducting electricity the water is converted to hydrogen and oxygen. The explosion is the hydrogen and oxygen recombining to form water (steam), and the amount of heat energy given off is the same or less than the electrical energy put in. You still dont get anything for nothing.

[Street Gerbil]

Overcharging an electrolyte capacitor is cool too. It says hissssss... wham! And aluminum foil flies in every direction. Spectacular.

[limbimtimwim]

When the di-electric (water) breaksdown and starts conducting electricity the water is converted to hydrogen and oxygen. The explosion is the hydrogen and oxygen recombining to form water (steam), and the amount of heat energy given off is the same or less than the electrical energy put in. You still dont get anything for nothing.I don't think you watched the first video, the guy doesn't talk about using heat. Capturing the hydrogen is the aim of the game. The question is: Is it more efficient than electrolysis? Chances are as I'm sure you will agree, slim.

[The Stranger]

You are telling me, and whats more the release of that energy can be very spectacular :shit:
:

Being a gentleman precludes me from speculating on this one.



Meh.......little smoke filled tubes are nothing to be afraid of even when they start leaking..........vaccuum cleaners that let out their smoke are to be respected! :yes: You would not believe how much smoke one of them babies can hold :shutup:

What exactly was Mark doing with the vaccuum cleaner at the time, did he have something stuck in it?

[JeremyW]

Capacitors are awesome to blow up.... but then they smell like cat piss :sick:

[Jantar]

No, I haven't watched either video. I can't watch them at work, and on dial up its too slow at home. But that doesn't alter the science that you can't get anything for nothing.

Put simply: If you pass an electric current through water, you will get Hydrogen formed at the anode, and Oxygen at the cathode. As long as these two points are seperated and there is no path by which the two gasses can recombine, then the two gasses can be collected. You will get 2 H2 molecules and 1 O2 Molecule for every 2 electrons passed. The amount of current that can be passed through the water depends on the resitance of the water and the applied voltage. Pure water needs a high voltage to obtain much current, but that situation can be improved by adding a catalyst (eg dilute H2SO4). What the capacitor does is allow the voltage to increase to the point where the di-electric breaks down and hence a large current is passed over a short period of time. The gasses are formed, and if they are far enough apart with no possibility of recombining then they can be collected, the capacitor would be discharged, then as more water flows between the plates the di-electric strength would be restored and the process would repeat. But if the gasses are permitted to combine then they will explode, and the heat given off in the explosion will be almost equal to the electrical energy used to seperate the gasses in the first place.

Conservation of energy and conservation of mass is maintained.

[limbimtimwim]

Most-everyone knows electrolysis creates hydrogen.

Just watch the video or google "Stanley Meyer". You misunderstand, Mr Meyer was not proposing using a separate capacitor, it was using the water as a component in one.

[Jantar]

... You misunderstand, Mr Meyer was not proposing using a separate capacitor, it was using the water as a component in one.
Yes, that is what I understood you to say. The water would be the dielectric, but that still doesn't alter the basic science (both physics and chemistry).

[dhunt]

You are telling me, and whats more the release of that energy can be very spectacular :shit:
All I know is that if you hook up a little electrolytic capacitor (One of the little ones made of tin foil) to a 230V light bulb and wait for the owner to turn the light on the results are very impressive. :yes:

[SlashWylde]

Can I use one of those big capacitors you get from an old CRT monitor?:gob:

Unless one is an experienced electronics tech or engineer I wouldn't go messing around with anything from the inside of a TV or PC monitor. There are high AC and DC voltages present when a CRT is running (many thousands of volts) and there can be stored potentials of more than one thousand volts DC even after the unit is switched off. These voltages can kill immediately on contact.

Even rapid discharges of low voltage caps can be dangerous due to vapourising metal and hot electrolyte. Good way to get a nasty burn or lose an eye.

Be careful :)

[degrom]

Unless one is an experienced electronics tech or engineer I wouldn't go messing around with anything from the inside of a TV or PC monitor. There are high AC and DC voltages present when a CRT is running (many thousands of volts) and there can be stored potentials of more than one thousand volts DC even after the unit is switched off. These voltages can kill immediately on contact.

Even rapid discharges of low voltage caps can be dangerous due to vapourising metal and hot electrolyte. Good way to get a nasty burn or lose an eye.

Be careful :)

Was only kiding,there is a reason they put Warning signs on the back of those devices.

[Chrislost]

all you have to do is touch your screwdriver across both leads to the cap.
and do it about 3 or 4 times. and if your unlucky another cap will charge the one you jsut discharded and your fingres will get err cooked.
the camera flash circuts can make nice little cattleprods but they work best if you remove the cap and use those leads (and the charging circut)as your prod...

[enigma51]

Fuck im falling a sleep