Clutch controls and cables

[xwhatsit]

My father's back in the country for a bit, so I decided to go and visit him at his mum's house, all the way in deep dark Te Atatu Peninsula. A day or two ago I noticed two strands of wires had begun to fray in my clutch cable (you could see where the lever pulls), so I began looking my bank account to see if I could buy a new one after my exam yesterday.

So I get there, and Dad was keen to see my bike, and he looked at the clutch cable and went WTF? Looking more closely he said... ah... I know why it's frayed; the lever is hanging down. It's been like this since I bought the bike, the lever has an extraordinary amount of play (i.e., you can waggle it up and down). This is because the clutch lever mount is spread, probably from being down the road on that side (there is paint missing off the alternator cover too). He says that means the cable is dragging on the lower part of the clutch lever mount, so that's caused it to fray.

`Never fear,' says Dad, `I can fix it'. Grabs two nut-fuckers (aka adjustable crescent spanners) and starts bending shit around. Next thing, *snap*, `Fuck,' the clutch lever is broken where it mounts.

So the bike came home in a van :innocent:

Good thing I have so much 250RS junk in my garage! Spare clutch control assembly. The arse was that the clutch control also is part of a switch block with indicators, high beam et al; which meant we had to do a bit of re-wiring. Headlight came off, the works. Who the hell designed the clutch lever and switch block into one unit? Dickhead. Honda's done this kind of shit all over my bike.

Anyway, it's all back together, clutch cable is routed better, rang Mt Eden and they reckon I'll have bought a new clutch cable off them by Friday, which is good, as it's way more frayed than first thought.

My questions are; the clutch lever still has a small amount of play in it. Despite being a whole new assembly and lever. Is this normal? Should I be able to waggle the clutch lever up and down at all? I can't with my front brake, but it's hydraulic (:sick:).

My other question is, what's a good lubricant for clutch cables and the like? Will WD40 cut it? How about chain lube? It cost me $21, it must be fucking good lube? Soap? Diesel? I hear that's slippery as pig shit.

Thanks guys.

[imdying]

Quality, that's the key. Shit stuff always has a jiggle. The Japanese understand, but the Italians do it in (expensive) style. Aftermarket Taiwainese stuff... try before you buy. That's one key benefit of not importing and buying local, encourages the local guys to keep samples you can stroke and play with. The cheap one OAB brought recently wasn't too bad. He brought it from the local Suzuki dealer, and I'll bet they brought it from and importer instead of doing it themselves... probably every other dealer does too. His was from a dirt bike iirc, so go visit your local dirt bike shop, ask to see what aftermarket clutch perch and lever assemblies they have in stock, pick the best one.

Chain lube applied with a cable luber works a treat. Dirt bike shop will almost certainly have those, about $15 now (used to be given away).

Other than that, oil in plastic bag seals to the outer has never failed me. If you're making a cable, pack it with white lithium grease before you put the cable through.

[xwhatsit]

The problem is about getting an aftermarket clutch perch (that's the word! Perch!) is that the original clutch perch is built into the left hand switch block, which is why it was such a bitch to swap over. Stupid bloody idea.

With the plastic bag lubing idea, how do you attach the bag to the outer to stop it leaking oil everywhere but into the cable? Engine oil OK? I just did an oil change so I've got some old engine oil I could use.

If chain lube works, mine is an aerosol, so I may just be able to squirt it down there.

Cheers for the reply.

[xwhatsit]

Yay, I'm all clutch-cabled back up :)

Rang Mt Eden against my better judgement -- I thought I'd have to go there late, and it's much closer than other shops (don't want to go too far on a dodgy clutch cable).

`No, no CB250RS cables -- but why don't you come in, we've got heaps upstairs, might be something that fits'

Something was found that fitted -- it's off some Yamaha dirt bike, and the outer is too short compared to the inner for my bike -- but it works, with some adjustment at both ends. Not ideal, but it was cheap, and could get it today, which is useful with a really rooted clutch cable and a bike I commute on every day.

So now I'm going to take it back off and give it a good lubing. Somebody who's opinion I value highly told me to use a condom to do the job. Sounds like an interesting trick. Only problem is the girlfriend's on the pill -- if she sees me with a pack of condoms some questions might be asked :D

[imdying]

Perch is a word I picked up from an American forum, probably has a better name, the online microfieche would be the place to see what the manufacturers call it. Don't use old oil, have some pride in your work.

[xwhatsit]

Perch is a word I picked up from an American forum, probably has a better name, the online microfieche would be the place to see what the manufacturers call it. Don't use old oil, have some pride in your work.

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Fair enough, I know people used to use old engine oil on their chains, so I thought it might be appropriate.

Same fellow who mentioned the condom trick also mentioned sewing machine oil. What a bizarre thing... I had no idea such a thing existed :lol:. Sprayed a whole lot of chain lube in the top end of the cable, as that's where the most friction would be of course, but will see if I can pick up this magical sewing machine oil tomorrow.

This time the cable is also routed a hell of a lot better, to get a good `approach angle' to the lever so we'll see how it goes. On a 250cc bike used for Auckland commuting you tend to use the clutch quite often.

[Kickaha]

On a 250cc bike used for Auckland commuting you tend to use the clutch quite often.

Try not using it for upchanges

[xwhatsit]

Try not using it for upchanges

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints> I did on the way there with the old cable :D

I was finding it tough to do that with any finesse in the low-speed slowly accelerating traffic. I might've got my technique wrong (it's been done to death in so many threads) but it feels clunky to do so unless I'm accelerating hard and the revs are high. And half the time you barely get out of second gear in real peak hour stuff around Newmarket/Central.

Next up: gearshaft oil seal!!! :D

[twinkle]

My clutch cable had almost snapped a while back, so I soldered it up (no clutch cables available at the time). It seems to be holding pretty well, I have a replacement cable but it doesn't look like I will be needing it any time soon :rockon:

[xwhatsit]

My clutch cable had almost snapped a while back, so I soldered it up (no clutch cables available at the time). It seems to be holding pretty well, I have a replacement cable but it doesn't look like I will be needing it any time soon :rockon:

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>I thought I would be able to get away with that -- as far as I could see there were only two strands of wire free (you could see when you pulled the lever in). However.... when the thing was pulled off the bike, it was completely rooted. Maybe the top 10cm or so was all twisted and mangled and snapped. I think a few of the wires had gone backwards and that had made it worse.

If it was a clean break, I would've soldered it and ordered a proper CB250RS cable from Econohonda, instead of futzing about with adjusters trying to get the Yamaha cable to sit right.

You carrying the other cable around with you? I would be scared, lol... but then again I carry around most of the tools necessary to replace my camchain...

[twinkle]

You carrying the other cable around with you?
I was, but got sick of that pretty quick. I just keep an eye on it :scooter:

[Reckless]

Hey guys you can buy a clamp type cable oiler thingy. From say Cycletreds. or Mt Eden may have some. About 14 bucks I think. Remove the cable then it clamps over the cable and the end of a CRC can tube fits in it. I have one I use from time to time on the MX bikes.
Other than that I turn the adjuster so the gap is upwards, lean the bike over or turn the bars so the oil will fall in the correct direction and fill it with some left over Nail gun oil I have, and work the lever at the same time. I suspect its pretty much the same as machine oil. But its thin enough to work its self all the way through the cable.

Hope this helps:scooter:

[Max Preload]

I had to ride a GS1000ST from Penrose, to Otara, and back to Mt Roskill with a broken clutch cable in '91, all in peak hour traffic. It wasn't too bad. Le Mans start (except with the engine already running since I slipped it into neutral before stopping lol) at the lights I didn't happen to preempt well enough.

[xwhatsit]

I had to ride a GS1000ST from Penrose, to Otara, and back to Mt Roskill with a broken clutch cable in '91, all in peak our traffic. It wasn't too bad. Le Mans start (except with the engine already running since I slipped it into neutral before stopping lol) at the lights I didn't happen to preempt well enough.

Hahah, brilliant!! I have done the odd Le Mans start myself in heavy traffic; my bike doesn't really idle reliably after a couple of days on a spark plug (I'm sure it's timing issues now), and you sure as hell can't kickstart it in that state, so bump start it is. Not good if the guy in front slams on his brakes while you're still running.

I imagine with that amount of torque it'd be quite straightforward, but on a 250, thumper or not, clutch slipping is indispensable (especially when I've lengthened gearing from 3.14 to 2.80) unless you get up to a good speed first.

Clutch seems much smoother now. Only issue is that damned new switch block I replaced with the clutch perch, the high beam is bloody stiff -- I keep blinding people unintentionally lol. WD40 should change that.

If I ever get the money, controls are going in the bin. Clutch perch (nothing else attached), Tommaselli short throw throttle -- and then I'm going to build my own switch gear out of beautiful old chrome toggle switches. <hints id="hah_hints"></hints>

[Kickaha]

Hahah, brilliant!! I have done the odd Le Mans start myself in heavy traffic;

So you park your bike on one side of the road with someone holding it, then you run from the other side of the road dodging traffic,jump on the bike and crash start it? :lol:

[xwhatsit]

So you park your bike on one side of the road with someone holding it, then you run from the other side of the road dodging traffic,jump on the bike and crash start it? :lol:

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Hahaha! Now I think about it, I see why they don't do those starts at Le Mans any more :D

I hate that phrase `crash start'. Sums up exactly what I did the first time I tried to perform one.

[delusionz]

I've had the same thing, clutch cable snapping at the lever. making it back from new market to mt eden i left it in 2nd, stall to stop, starter motor and standing up to push forward to start. that was hell! lucky the starter motor was strong enough to do it starting in 2 even up hills!!

[FROSTY]

Dude--given your OLD clutch perch is fercked try hacksawing it off completely.--as in cut the perch away from the switchblock. Getyaself an accessory lever perch and bingo no moreloose lever problems

[Max Preload]

I've had the same thing, clutch cable snapping at the lever. making it back from new market to mt eden i left it in 2nd, stall to stop, starter motor and standing up to push forward to start. that was hell! lucky the starter motor was strong enough to do it starting in 2 even up hills!!

Stall to stop? Why didn't you just snick it into neutral and leave the engine running? Not good for your starter.

[delusionz]

Stall to stop? Why didn't you just snick it into neutral and leave the engine running? Not good for your starter.

The bike had a recycling gearbox so i would have had to click into 1 before N. Clicking back into 1 and then 2 with no clutch probably would have crunched something in the gearbox to death. It was a china bike.

[xwhatsit]

Dude--given your OLD clutch perch is fercked try hacksawing it off completely.--as in cut the perch away from the switchblock. Getyaself an accessory lever perch and bingo no moreloose lever problems

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Interesting, good idea. Just worried about how much room I have on the bar -- the existing perch is `in front' of the switch block, if you can picture that, so it takes up no horizontal room. If I put in a new perch, I might not be able to reach the switch gear without moving my hand, which might be a pain in the arse.

The new clutch perch is a lot better, I may try chucking a washer in there to see if it improves. As far as I can see the cable isn't running on the lower run of the perch, but there is still more play than I think is healthy.

[Max Preload]

Go to Ludowici Plastics (http://www.whitepages.co.nz/Pages/Search/Details/0,2624,a1281_d41320133,00.html?Name=Ludowici&Loc=&Reg=) or similar, and get a nylon or UHMWPE washer to pack it out.

[xwhatsit]

Go to Ludowici Plastics (http://www.whitepages.co.nz/Pages/Search/Details/0,2624,a1281_d41320133,00.html?Name=Ludowici&Loc=&Reg=) or similar, and get a nylon or UHMWPE washer to pack it out.

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Cheers mate, they're just up the road, will have to take a look when my head has stopped feeling so dizzy and my eyesight returns :)

[jonbuoy]

You might be able to take it out with some shims - same way you did on the clip ons - flatten out an old coke tin drill a hole for the pin to pass through and cut around it afterwards and hammer it flat- might need a few depending on how slack it is. I've done something similar with a rearset shifter in the past.

[xwhatsit]

Well you guys were dead right, I should know that by now ;)

The clutch perch (the spare one which was better than the original) steadily got more and more munted until now the cable has crapped out again. Wonder what I'm doing to make it do that; leaning on the lever or something? It's rotated correctly for my arm angle, who knows. Looking again it's possibly the lever wot has worn down.

Malcolm@Econohonda is officially the coolest motorcycle parts guy on this planet -- rang up, he instantly knows who I am and what my bike is, says he's got a good second-hand cable for cheap (why not? New one needs to be ordered, this is only $15 and I need a new cable quickly). Then tells me not to bother paying until it's arrived I'm 100% satisfied the cable is in good nick. What a champ. Of course I'll be paying straight away, I trust him by now :first:

[FROSTY]

Um hey good solution but a BETTER idea would be to ride your bike to Atomic wreckers and take your old cable off (spence is great he'll lend ya the tools to do it) They will make you a BRAND NEW inner cable for $25.00
Ill stick by my origonal suggestion--get yaself an accessory clutch perch and lever
As a minimum grab a new clutch lever as I suspect your problem is that the "bearing" in the middle of the lever is either missing or worn out
Most clutch levers are shaped to allow for going around the switch block--have a look at almost any bike

[xwhatsit]

Yeah I like the idea of a new clutch perch. Just have to save up for pay-day.

Thought about getting a new inner made, but I thought not to because Mt Eden told me a long time ago that it would cost $40 or so; enough to buy a brand-new cable anyway. Thanks for the info about Atomic -- good to know :D