Headlights! Headlights!

[HungusMaximist]

I like to gather some past experiences from fellow bikers who enjoy fiddling with their head light bulbs.

I've recently purchased myself a Phillips 55/60 'Crystal Vision', halogen bulb after some debate with the counter-clerk at Repco over what's good on the market. We discussed that whiter bulbs are brighter and are good for city riding becuase it reduced the glare from streetlights. There also the PLUS 50 bulbs that Narva and Phillips make, that gave the normal yellow light but with more brightness and distance. It's said that if you use the plus 50, it's good in the sense if you do alot of night riding around the country where there isn't a lot of streetlights.

In comparision between the two product in quality, the clerk mentioned phillips stood out better.

Your views?
Where do you buy yours and what do you buy?
Do you prefer the brighter white over the conventional yellow?

Btw: The the 'crystal vision' bulb I bought apparently retails at 80 bucks but the counter-clerk was able to do me for 45 bucks. Phillips 'blue vision' retails around $32 but is (apparently) less bright and doesn't have a blue tinge, when viewed at a certain angle than the crystal vision.

[HungusMaximist]

On the note of increasing brightness - I've got old styled head light glass that's all layered inside with lines and on high beam the layered glass some how sprays the light at the corners with little lines.

The Repco sales clerk said that I changed it to a clear one it can drastically increase my head light brightness. This sound true enough, yes ?

[johnnyflash]

My mates and I have had this discussion many times, tried the blue's & yellows and all, but the end result always was that we fittted seperate spotlights/driving lights, ensuring they were the long distance focus lenses and stuck 100watt lamps in em..., aint bought any for a couple years now but their are many versions on the market, but most importantly Ive found is aligning em properly. Personally, ive found the blue/white versions seemed to blow a lot easier so Ive stuck with yellow std as it suited my eyes better, others decided to use the blue or whiter variety as it suited them better. might have something to do with ones eyesight and how it reacts in various types of light, and in my case Im and old beggar so my sight aint 20/20 hehheh... Best to talk to some ligh specialists, even if you dont end up buying their brand, eg Lucas... etc..

[Blackbird]

I have twin 100W Xenon lamps - see thread: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=26322&highlight=xenon+headlights for the safety angle.

[FROSTY]

On the note of increasing brightness - I've got old styled head light glass that's all layered inside with lines and on high beam the layered glass some how sprays the light at the corners with little lines.

The Repco sales clerk said that I changed it to a clear one it can drastically increase my head light brightness. This sound true enough, yes ?
No dude it wont help--The construction of lenses have changed over the last few years--what ya can do is fit a COMPLETE headlight reftlector/glass

[The Stranger]

I recently replaced my GSXR bulbs with Philips 50% brighter bulbs from Repco.
The output is greater alright, but the shape of the beam is still shit so you wind up with the road 15m ahead well lit and a pencil beam down the middle when on full beam, but nothing if you happen to go around a corner.

In short though, they have definately helped, but not cured the real problem.

[Pancakes]

Bike wiring can be lighter than ideal to keep weight etc down (the wiring goes through the switches on the bar etc, not ideal) and the first port'o'call would be a 50+ or brighter bulb AND run new heavier gauge cable from the battery direct to the bulb, two relays in the middle and use the old power cables as the switch sense for the relays, always fuse things too ok. If your going up to 65w you can probably wire high beam to be both together when factory is normally one or the other filament. Over 65w may start to melt you purdy machine. Failing that go H.I.D lights, had some of these swapped into an ex club rally car I used to drive and it was amazing! You will get a noticable 3X more light with about 35w draw. Lots of drawbacks though, no hi/lo beam, you need a HID bulb that moves, there are more parts too, a ballast unit which has capacitors for initial startup and power conditioners for normal running. Anywhere from 3 to 20 second startup depending on the model too. Worth looking into tho, I'm going to do a new harness and relays on mine (already have Narva 50+ bulb) and will post how that goes while I'm looking around for a good and reasonably priced HID setup.

[bounce]

Where do you buy yours and what do you buy?
Do you prefer the brighter white over the conventional yellow?


I found a PIAA Plasma GTX on trademe which is ultra white with a kind of purple low beam. My figuring was to get something that would be eye catching in the day time. Wish I could say that it works wonders but no, I still have to react and avoid other drivers on a daily basis :dodge:

[Pancakes]

I found a PIAA Plasma GTX on trademe which is ultra white with a kind of purple low beam. My figuring was to get something that would be eye catching in the day time. Wish I could say that it works wonders but no, I still have to react and avoid other drivers on a daily basis :dodge:

I'll post how my relay goes with upping the power to standard bulbs once I've made it, hope to have it on by this ATNR, we'll see I suppose. Depends on how much time I find up my sleeve (or how much sleeve my wife gives me this week?)

You'll always have to dodge drivers, most of them are trying to see you as hard as this guy!

[Pancakes]

Well I made the new loom yesterday and there is maybe 20% more noticable light, I don't have a multimeter so I can't say accurately how much more power is getting through but my lights now get to the end of a straight (Kauri Rd by the golf course WarlockNZ, just past your place) when they used to get maybe two thirds of the way. I have raised my light by a few degrees to use the extra distance available. Still not the light that I'd like tho so I'm going to try the 130/100 H4 available from Narva, still glad I made the new loom cos now If I pay for a new bulb I'll get to use it's full potential.

Tank off, Airbox off and testing the factory plug that I used for the switch sense for the relays.

[Pancakes]

The bits to make the loom out of,

The gap between the head/steerer tube and the airbox where I mounted it,

The spade connectors to plug into the factory plug as switch senses for the relays.

(I could have cut the wires and joined them to the sense wires but wanted to make a system I could just un-plug if I wanted to).

[Pancakes]

The loom and again taped up, The battery connections in place.

[Pancakes]

The wiring and relays in place,

The relays, Don't hassle my soldering ok! I was using an old shitty iron that never really got hot enough and I was runnning out of solder so was using old odds and ends.

In place with the airbox back on, yeah, I like cable ties.

[Pancakes]

Tank back on and a dodgy photo that doesn't really see what your eye sees.

[scumdog]

Top marks for the educational series of photos - makes it heaps easier to figure out than a whole lot of technical words!!:yes:

[Zapf]

Whiter lights from the blue tint halogen bulbs do not improve the light, all they do is introduce more glare.

I have had extensive trail and error with bulbs, and the conventional yellow works best all around.

Example. If you have your blue bulbs, and riding out in the country at night. Comes across fog and it gets thick. All you'll see is the fog and not the road. However with conventional yellow bulb, the glare from the fog is not as bad. And with the +50 Hella/Philips Xeon Ultra bulb it is also brighter than your "normal" halogen bulb.

The key to a bright headlight is not so much in the wattage, although it helps. The most important part is the reflector and lens design. Hence headlights that uses the modern FF (free form) reflectors are much brighter even the bulb is the same wattage. FF reflectors uses the rear (silver) reflector to focus & patten the light, instead of using the glass/lense to do the focus and pattening. Resulting in lower light lost.

As someone has mentioned the GSXR's headlights are shit at night, because its reflector is very small. Try the headlights of a CB900Hornet / CB1300's they are single bulb, but it provides much brighter and effective light than the GSXR's using 2 bulbs.

If you "REALLY REALLY" need much brighter lights, mount some external lights from the Hella range. In this case quality = more and better light

[Blackbird]

Whiter lights from the blue tint halogen bulbs do not improve the light, all they do is introduce more glare.

Umm.... What are these "blue tint" halogen bulbs you refer to - name, make? I've never seen them. Even the 100W halogens I used to use were clear. The 100W Xenons I use now are blue-white. If I was going for a further upgrade, I'd put an HID converson on my dipped beam but would be up for around $400+ for a reputable brand.

[Zapf]

"blue tint" halogen bulbs

they would be marketed as Arctic Blue, or something blue by Phillips.

It seems the Phillips is the less blue of the bunch, cause they know blue / white light don't really work.

I think if you compare your 100W Xeon's with say the Arctic Blues or similar, your 100W's will still be yellowish. Unless they were specific blue bulbs.

Check out this site, they have beam patten charts for most Hella lights.

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/ff1000.asp

[Pancakes]

Thanks Scummy! They are low power bikes and not fast even by 250 standards but riding by guess work cos your beams too short sucks!

Zapf, your right about the design of the headlamp but for most bikes the cost of changing the actual light assembly would make an HID system seem like a bargain in most cases. Most modern bikes have reasonable reflectors (always exceptions to the rule of course) and I was looking for a reasonable cost upgrade that anyone can apply to their bike without altering the factory wiring etc.

Your right about the blue tint regular bulbs, they give out the same light colour that a normal bulb does because they are a normal bulb, a tint just blocks other colours passing though so your blocking some of the light (wattage) your generating. HID's are totally different, I won't go into the full detail cos we all can google it but they give out a full range of light that nearly mimics sunlight, you can get ones that are bluer tho. Fog is way better with yellow light but it is still "slow" visually, personal preference I suppose. If you ride if fog lots you want a fog light not just a normal lamp, I get lots of fog near my house and every now and then on the m'way to town. I'd rather nana it in the fog and have great light other times. My bike came with a 50/65w, I upgraded to a 50+ 50/65w (so roughly 95w?) and that gave off a wee bit more light, did the relay and noticed about 25% improvement so the problem seemed to be power supply to the bulb, now have a 90/130w standard and have twice the beam length from standard, for roughly $40 I bet thats something people with lighting issues that don't want to alter their factory loom or headlamp lens etc would like.

I'm keen to meet up with a standard bulb Hyo Comet 250 to see the difference if someone with one is keen?

PS, Any naked Hyo' riders that want one I'm happy to make them if you buy/cover the cost of parts, bulb was $25 from Partmaster.

[Zapf]

Zapf, your right about the design of the headlamp but for most bikes the cost of changing the actual light assembly would make an HID system seem like a bargain in most cases. Most modern bikes have reasonable reflectors (always exceptions to the rule of course)

and I was looking for a reasonable cost upgrade that anyone can apply to their bike without altering the factory wiring etc.

and have twice the beam length from standard, for roughly $40 I bet thats something people with lighting issues that don't want to alter their factory loom or headlamp lens etc would like.


yes most headlamps are integrated to the body work, it not really the cost problem. Its basicly impossible, as the headlight and the fairing will have to be redesigned. For example, GSXR's don't have very good headlights cause its a sports bike. Where as a more touring type bike tend to have good headlight fairly high on the list.

Upgrading to HID's or higher wattage will give more light overall. But the shape of the beam is still same same. So if it was a beam that wasn't wide enough, it will still be not wide enough. Hence that is where attaching external lights comes in. Usually I find riding in twisties at night, when you have the bike cranked over and you find the beam doesn't reach far enough into the corner to show you what is coming around, and that is usually by far what most people have issues with once they have a good bulb in their main beam.

problem with higher wattage are either wiring to handle the load / making sure your alternator is making enough power for you not to be draining the battary and also not melting some important bits in your headlamp from extra heat. From experience if you are riding at a good clip at night 80+ kmh, there should be enough cooling from the wind. But don't take my word for it, it pays to check with your hand just to be sure.

re the blue lights, I personally tend to think a more yellowish bulb will stand out better during the day. Lets say if I am oncoming traffic, I would notice a more yellow light than a blue HID like Halogen light. Since the blue is closer in approxmation to sunlight as you say.

forgive my ramblings :)

[Pancakes]

Everyones eyes are different so what we notice will be different, I normally notice the newer lights that have a defined edge so they flash as you move in and out of their beam, seeing that has made me look into modulators lately. Before that though I want to suss out a homejob visi-bike kit, have all the indicators on half power then turns off when the indicator is on. I was on the ATNR and someone thought it was not needed to upgrade the loom, I'm sure it wouldn't fail straight away but running nearly 3 times the factory power is sure asking for trouble! (Used to install RT's in cars and trucks so while I'm no guru I have some experience to base my opinion on). I wasn't sure about the heat and think it would be more of an issue in faired bikes, have kept an eye on the back and the reflector and neither are showing any bad signs yet. It is a naked bike tho' so the lens gets tons of air and the back is out in the open too.

Zapf, keep on rambling, I'm always open to genuine objective opinion! It's a forum after all.

[Zapf]

well for me, I think if you want to be more visible during the day. Have some of those spot lights with the yellow crystal ion. They stand out quite well.

[Pancakes]

Yeah but I'd hate the look of extra lights on my bike too much to do it! (shit, I'm trying to be all practical and just admitted I wouldn't do something even if it works cos of aesthetics!) but have definatly thought that those 3w leds would be great day time "driving lights" with a narrow beam, any colour you like and drawing eff' all from the alternator. They're sealed so completely waterproof and placement would be a breeze compared with mounting an external filament style spotlight. Even three under the main light or tucked under a faring, one straight ahead and ones to get in the eye's of traffic from side roads, we all know the guys pulling out seem to miss bikes, the brain is trying to match a car shape, nope, no car, lets go!

[Zapf]

these should do OK on a bike
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Micro_DE.asp

last year I wanted to mount a great big Rally 4000 HID on my bike for he GC...

400+ meter throw and 80m wide beam :innocent: and only 55W power. LOL

I'll just feel bad for the poor guy in front of me.

[Pancakes]

The power HID's have makes me drool. With the "big service" tyres, sprockets/chain and braided front brake line all to be paid for soon I'm lacking the coin for that! Recon I'll go for one eventually though, can't go past that kind of light really, and what you can do when everything is visible, well :Punk:. Until then I recon my wee job was $40 well spent. It sucks that bikes don't come out with better lights standard really, especially some of the awesome new sports machines that can be riding out of their beam distance in 1st or 2nd!

[Zapf]

Guess what I found....

Quote:
"Xenon Bulbs

Xenon gas is used in both halogen bulbs and HID Capsules. These are two completely different technologies and should not be confused. For more information on HID lighting, click here.



The presence of Xenon gas in the halogen gas mix acts as a heat dissipater to allow the engineers to use a hotter filament and there for get more lumens from the same wattage, as well as increasing the color temperature of the light (that is: whiter) put out. The whiter the light, the better you can see colors and contrasts. An HID lamp approaches the color of daylight (4300K). It is obvious that if Bambi is standing in the middle of the road, at the extreme limits of your lights, you would rather light him up with a white light than a yellow one.



As engineers add Xenon to the halogen gas mix, it gets whiter. The industry seems to have standardized on three levels, +30 which raises the color temperature to about 3200 degrees Kelvin, +50, which takes it to 3250 degrees and Extra White, which raises the color to about 4000 degrees. These levels have to do with the actual length of the filament used in the bulb, not a percentage of Xenon. Engineers have found out that more than 5% Xenon in the mix returns no further benefit and in fact increases the possibility of arcing from one coil of the filament to another, which is why it is used for High Intensity Discharge (HID) capsule technology. Other manufactures have different names for these levels, but physics effects all manufactures equally and at this point in time, with the exception of Halogen Infra-Red (HIR) technology (which of course still obeys the laws of physics), no one has anything unique.

General Electric patented this new technology in 2000. Their intention was to create a bulb that emits about 3/4 as many lumens as an HID capsule at a fraction of the cost, especially when taking into account the ballast necessary for an HID system. The technology was licensed to Toshiba for automotive use. The technology involves a specially shaped quartz globe which has multiple layers of semi-reflective materials deposited on the inside surface of the bulb. The coating reflects a portion of the Infra-Red energy emitted by the filament back to the filament causing it to glow hotter and produce more light, which escapes through the uncoated forward portion of the globe. Even though the filament runs hotter, the bulb produces about the same amount of heat or a little less than a stock bulb.

The use of the word brighter is misleading. It means brighter in the same sense that using Cheer detergent makes your laundry brighter. It makes little, or no more light, often less, just a whiter light. A negligible increase in lumens (7-10%) may be expected in the +30 and +50 Xenon bulbs, the blue coating on some High Wattage bulbs will negate this increase.



The High Wattage bulbs use either a quartz bulb impregnated with a blue tint, or a blue coating on the bulb. They say that this to block out some of the spectrum which causes eyestrain. It also gives the light a blue tint, which is invisible to the driver, but visible to oncoming traffic. Some people find this blue coloration objectionable, others think it is "cool".

End Quote

From http://www.rallylights.com/hella/bulb_help.htm

learn something new everyday

[Zapf]

Another useful bit from the same quoted page

Quote:

Assessing The Beam Control of Your Lamps

Bulbs are only the light source for a lamp. With the exception of the H4 bulb, which has a shield in it to create the low beam cutoff, they have nothing to do with beam control. The beam shape is completely controlled by the lamp.



Before you invest in higher output bulbs for your head lamps, you should assess the quality of the beams produced by those lamps. Park your car at night about 25 feet from a vertical wall with the low beams on. If the beam has a nice crisp horizontal transition from dark to light, then you may consider the upgrade. If, on the other hand, the pattern is poorly defined, just a blob of light, all higher output bulb will do is dazzle oncoming traffic and cause a dangerous situation. As a benchmark, an E-code sealed beam replacement headlamp has a transition zone from light to dark about 2" high at a distance of 25 feet. Most composite (aerodynamic) headlamps cannot meet this standard although many of the newer vehicles (about 2000 on) have free form lamps and are much better. A free form lamp has a clear lens with little or no fluting.

End Quote


Oh and I think these are COOL if you can mount them properly and also afford them.

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/50mm_modules.asp