Employment law input needed

[ManDownUnder]

Person A works in a shop.

They're 3 weeks + behind in their pay, as are all the staff and the boss comes and goes paying the suppliers, but leaving anyone that can be put on a string... waiting...

He's paying suppliers $50k/month etc... (so they don't cut him off...?). So... when he does fly out to Melbourne he requests his contact details are not passed on. A tad suss...

Money from the shop is being banked daily into his wife's personal account (and it is being watch very closely)... and Friend A is doing all this while out of pocket herself. The money is apparently all out of the country in his native land.

So... tomorrow is meeting time.. he's in town and hopefully going to pay salaries but...

What if he doesn't? What can Friend A actually do? Legally take that value in stock for personal security? I doubt a union covers her (does it???) so while he's in town (one day only - Wednesday20 June)... what does she do to cover her debts... she has rent to pay etc and is borrowing money etc to make ends meet.

It's BS.

Advice? Preferably qualified legal or business...

[NighthawkNZ]

So... tomorrow is meeting time.. he's in town and hopefully going to pay salaries but...

What if he doesn't? What can Friend A actually do? Legally take that value in stock for personal security? I doubt a union covers her (does it???) so while he's in town (one day only - Wednesday20 June)... what does she do to cover her debts... she has rent to pay etc and is borrowing money etc to make ends meet.

It's BS.

Advice? Preferably qualified legal or business...

If the money is there, he has to pay his employee's, personally I would get a laywer in on the act asap

[Pumba]

Lawyer Up and nail his arse

[jafar]

Sounds like he is skimming. Get a lawyer onto it & get the Labour department there as well.
IRD will be very interested in him banking direct into his wife's account too. Set them loose on him they are like a pack of rabid dogs when they smell this sort of shit

[T.W.R]

Wages protection act 1983 :yes:

Recovery of arrears of wages:

It is a breach of the employment agreement for an employer not to pay the correct wages, or not to pay wages when they are due. Actions for the recovery of arrears of wages may be taken by either an employee or a labour inspector.

Employees may take action in the Employment Relations Authority under the Employment Relations Act to recover wages or other payments that have not been paid or that have been paid at a lower rate than legally required by an employment agreement or an apprenticeship contract (s 131 ERA)

( Taken from Employment Law Guide)

Sections 130 - 132 of the Employment Relations Act (Recovery of Wages)

:niceone:

If taken to the ERA they have the jurisdiction to impose a penalty of up to $5000 for an individual employer or upto $10000 for a company or corporation

[SwanTiger]

Friend A should wise the fuck up, realise they're getting fucked, get a lawyer, find other employment to pay the bills and get the fuck on with life.

[T.W.R]

This link is to the D.O.L employment relations service with a simple breakdown of the rules concerning wages

http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/pay/deductions.html

[SARGE]

Helen Thorpe & associates
Employment Relations Specialists


09 360 6200

a former client of mine at Red Baron and a keen biker..

[Macktheknife]

Get a lawyer fast, essentially a breach of 'good faith in employment relationship', also a breach of employment contract. Goods can be taken as a 'Lein against a debt' but they must be kept in a secure place and in saleable condition for return once payment is made. (better make the goods worth a lot more than the debt, accidently of course). There are some reasonably strict rules around securing a lein in law so care must be taken, last resort basically.
Finally, get a good lawyer.
In some limited instances IRD can prevent a person leaving the country if it is in the interests of the nation etc.
My question would be 'what have the staff been told about the situation?'

[T.W.R]

Get a lawyer fast, essentially a breach of 'good faith in employment relationship', also a breach of employment contract. Goods can be taken as a 'Lein against a debt' but they must be kept in a secure place and in saleable condition for return once payment is made. (better make the goods worth a lot more than the debt, accidently of course). There are some reasonably strict rules around securing a lein in law so care must be taken, last resort basically.


:shit: You What??? breach of 'Good Faith' ??? 'Good faith' is relevant only to Bargaining of employment agreements as in 'the codes of Good faith' sections 35-39 of the Employment Relations Act :yes:

What your implying be done is weight enough for the employer to terminate employment under 'Theft as a servant' :shutup:

[SARGE]

What your implying be done is weight enough for the employer to terminate employment under 'Theft as a servant' :shutup:

i guess a good old ass kickin would be out of the question

[Sniper]

i guess a good old ass kickin would be out of the question

Dark alley, balaclavas, batons and steel toes?

[scumdog]

Dark alley, balaclavas, batons and steel toes?


Still won't get 'A' her dosh though.....

[Sniper]

Still won't get 'A' her dosh though.....

Job satisfaction?

[SARGE]

Dark alley, balaclavas, batons and steel toes?

nah man .. thats too dodgy.. im more of a "crowded parking lot in front of the rest of the employees" kinda guy

steel caps and Ikon Titanium gloves for sure though

[Macktheknife]

:shit: You What??? breach of 'Good Faith' ??? 'Good faith' is relevant only to Bargaining of employment agreements as in 'the codes of Good faith' sections 35-39 of the Employment Relations Act :yes:

What your implying be done is weight enough for the employer to terminate employment under 'Theft as a servant' :shutup:

No, it is an entirely legal option if done correctly.
'Good faith' is now regularly applied to the entire employment relationship in disputes and in court, in fact I have used it myself in one situation to great effect.

[Oakie]

Yep. 'Good Faith' has to underpin the whole employment relationship, not just bargaining.
Get a lawyer. It sounds like this fella is real slippery.

[Skyryder]

Fist instruction to your solicitor. Freeze the wifes assets. Second instruction. get a caveat on their property. That will will realy piss him off, especialy if he is planning a runner.

Skyryder

[avgas]

Money from a buisness cannot go into a personal account from recall.
The whole "Owners Equity" thing comes into play. Therefore all funds of the owners are now the companies as you can have one without the other.
Oh yeh Friend A should burn the shop the ground for fun.

[T.W.R]

No, it is an entirely legal option if done correctly.
'Good faith' is now regularly applied to the entire employment relationship in disputes and in court, in fact I have used it myself in one situation to great effect.


Yep. 'Good Faith' has to underpin the whole employment relationship, not just bargaining.


Figuratively you're right but; as stated in the 'Employment Law Guide'

GOOD FAITH

The principle of good faith is a central theme of the Employment Relations Act. While this concept is the subject of much debate, the simple requirement of the legislation is that parties to employment relationships deal with each other in good faith. Their relationships should be based on fair dealing and mutual trust and confidence.

(I wont go into specifics here but) "good faith" has more weight & credence in collective bargaining. but the Employment Relations Act does not define "good faith". Indeed no jurisdiction which has given this concept legislative status has attempted a definition.

For individual employment relationships, good faith is expected to reflect the common law principle of mutual trust and confidence. However, this principle is supplemented by specific legislative provisions. According to the Employment Relations Act, good faith behaviour in relation to individual employees is "promoted by providing protection against unfair bargaining" and is "consistent with implied term of mutual trust and confidence in the relationship between employee & employer" (s60 ERA).

MDU's issue wont even get as far as going to the Employment Relations Authority if it does then the employer is up against a wall with nowhere to run . If this happens the DOL will appoint the use of "Mediation Services" ie: appoint a Mediator (s144 ERA)

:niceone:

[FROSTY]

Person A needs to get a new job. Sorry mate it really is that simple.
Argue and beat chests as much as ya like but the woman needs to eat

[marty]

why is person A still working there?

caveat on the house. do it ex parte. tomorrow

notice of intention to strike in 5 days. hand it to them in the morning.

[Winston001]

Ohhhhhh shagggg! What a dilemma.

OK, there is a possible solution but it will cost.

It is possible to arrest an absconding debtor to prevent them from leaving the country. I had it done at Invercargill Airport about 20 years ago.

This isn't a simple problem. The money is simply overdue, not yet an enforceable debt. So getting an order for arrest isn't guaranteed - they are rare and make judges nervous.

Alternatively and perhaps easier is to apply to a judge tomorrow morning (Ex parte - no notice to the employer) for an order freezing bank accounts and property including the wife's assets.

You'd need some good evidence to convince the judge that fraud was going on here but the Courts can act pretty quickly when necessary.

Where to go.......? Well if your friend is in a union they'd love to do all of this. Otherwise the Labour Department might pick it up or they might take 3 months to chew it over.

Essentially the employees are in no different a position to Telecom/Meridian/the local plumber who are owed money by someone who skips the country. Or simply moves one street over and changes their name. There are dishonest bastards in the world who don't pay their bills.

Anyway I hope this helps. Although it sounds like fraud, its not a police matter yet. The only legal answers are through very fast applications to the Court.

[inlinefour]

Person A works in a shop.

They're 3 weeks + behind in their pay, as are all the staff and the boss comes and goes paying the suppliers, but leaving anyone that can be put on a string... waiting...

He's paying suppliers $50k/month etc... (so they don't cut him off...?). So... when he does fly out to Melbourne he requests his contact details are not passed on. A tad suss...

Money from the shop is being banked daily into his wife's personal account (and it is being watch very closely)... and Friend A is doing all this while out of pocket herself. The money is apparently all out of the country in his native land.

So... tomorrow is meeting time.. he's in town and hopefully going to pay salaries but...

What if he doesn't? What can Friend A actually do? Legally take that value in stock for personal security? I doubt a union covers her (does it???) so while he's in town (one day only - Wednesday20 June)... what does she do to cover her debts... she has rent to pay etc and is borrowing money etc to make ends meet.

It's BS.

Advice? Preferably qualified legal or business...

I'd beat the fuck outta the prick so that he has 3+ weeks worth of damage to deal with. Then piss off quick and look for another job... :shutup:

[Winston001]

caveat on the house. do it ex parte. tomorrow


Good thought but it would be a rare employee who had a caveatable interest in their bosses house.

Mind you, ignorance is bliss, nudge nudge...... "you mean I shouldn't have done that?" :whocares:

[Winston001]

Goods can be taken as a 'Lien against a debt' but they must be kept in a secure place and in saleable condition for return once payment is made. There are some reasonably strict rules around securing a lien in law so care must be taken, last resort basically.


Unfortunately this only applies to a workmans lien. The sort of thing where you repair a bike but won't release it until the owner pays his bill.

There is no such right in employment law.

And taking stuff as has already been said, is theft as a servant. Tricky. Colour of right but not a lawful act.

[BarBender]

Some good stuff said already.

Lawyer is a good call but at the end of the day it may come back to what was legally agreed to in the terms of employment between employee and employer.

So - first step is to refer to your friends employment agreement and if stated - highlight that he is in breech of the agreement. (if one exists)