Voting age: What da ya think?

[RiderInBlack]

Sue Bradford is thinking about lowering the voting age to 16 year old.

My opinion is that she is nuts. As far as I am concerned the driving age should go back up to 18 years old and the drinking age go back to 20 years old.

What do you think?

[Indiana_Jones]

That stupid tree-hugging bitch is now trying to get the voting age lowered to 16.

What the fuck is wrong with this women?

I for one blame MMP for this ugly bitch for being in parliament. Has she got nothing better to do then make crazy social engineering bills? it's like labour and the greens want to be mum and dad for the whole country.

-Indy

[Deano]

No argument here Indy.

[yungatart]

Most 16 y/o can't get out of bed on time, how the hell would they get to a polling booth.
And if they bring "civic studies" in to the curriculum, given the propensity teachers have to vote Labour, how much of anything but Labour policy would be taught? An easy form of brainwahing?
That woman is dangerous, and needs to be stopped!

[u4ea]

Most 16 y/o can't get out of bed on time, how the hell would they get to a polling booth.
And if they bring "civic studies" in to the curriculum, given the propensity teachers have to vote Labour, how much of anything but Labour policy would be taught? An easy form of brainwahing?
That woman is dangerous, and needs to be stopped!

bring back the burning of witches!!!!!!!!

[dnos]

Bloody hell what interest do 16 year olds have in the way the country is run. Even when I turned 18 I didn't really have a clue about who to vote for so didn't bother, if I had I would have just voted the same as my Dad. From my experience it's not till your out of school that any real opinions develop regarding voting and parliament.

[jonbuoy]

If your old enough to have a full time job/join the armed forces and pay taxes you should be allowed to vote. How many 16 year olds that can be arsed to go vote is another story.

[sAsLEX]

From my experience it's not till your out of school that any real opinions develop regarding voting and parliament.

For some the brainwashing starts much earlier .....

[Crasherfromwayback]

It won't be long and she'll decide we all have to have sex in the missionary position only. And then only every second week.
Pity she wasn't the one that was squashed by the falling concrete slab yesterday.

[spudchucka]

The fact that its Bradford's idea should be warning enough to dump the idea.

[Swoop]

Madness!:yes:

[deanohit]

I agree with everything that has been said here.I know I couldnt be bothered voting in the last election,so went hunting insted and I was bout 19/20 at the time,I think. God knows how many 16 y/o could be bothered.

[Cajun]

you working and pay tax you vote (doesn't matter how old you are)
you don't pay tax you don't get shit

[sels1]

If your old enough to have a full time job/join the armed forces and pay taxes you should be allowed to vote.

I recall that argument being used when they lowered it from 20 to 18.
I feel 18 is a fair enough age for voting, although there are plenty of 18yo's who arent really mature enough to contribute sensibly, there is sufficient who are to draw the line there.
I see no point in giving the vote to children, no mater how grown up they think they are.

[sAsLEX]

you working and pay tax you vote

That rules Labour out of winning another election..........

[Freakshow]

I only ask who voted for her to get in and action stupid ideas? There have to be several more important topics to fight for!

[MSTRS]

That rules Labour out of winning another election..........

Happy happy joy joy....
Bradford is a maniac. But a jury of her 'peers' would find her to be a saint. And that is exactly what this 16yo/vote bullshit is about. We all know that teenagers are idealistic creatures - having the vote for them would be like adding 200,000 Labour/Green votes. A wetdream for SB...

[Dargor]

Well I'm 17 and think I'm mature enough to contribute sensibly but.. i think most 16/17's are stupid shits, just because you can drop out of school and get a low paying job doesn't mean your mature.

I liked what Cajun said, doll bludgers shouldn't get the vote.

But maybe if it was lowered and i got to vote last time my vote could have helped save the country from becoming a nanny state.

[MSTRS]

Welcome Dargor. Can you post a pic of your bike...the 1885 model is sure to be interesting:innocent:

[Lias]

Raise it to 25..

[shcabbeh]

I wonder how many of Bradford's policies are really attention grabbing publicity stunts. This latest one is just ridiculous.

[avgas]

Lower it to 6 so that you learn at a young age why NZ is corrupt

[yod]

i think a lot of people round here need a serious dose of objectivity

[Oakie]

Think about it. Which age group do you think is most likely to support the Green Party? The young and naive of course. Those who have a rosy view of what the world should be. (Legalise cannibis, don't smack yer kids, save the Snails/Trees/Swamps etc, increase the minimum wage to $14.00). If 16 and 17 year olds had the vote, I'd suspect that at least 30% of them would vote Green ... and in MMP, that could mean another Green MP or 2 which would really give the Greens the balance of power.

That's what this proposal is about.

How about one of you KB high school students arranging a poll amongst 16 and 17 year olds at your school to and see who they'd vote for. It might be interesting just to see how the demographic works.

[The Stranger]

Sue Bradford is thinking about lowering the voting age to 16 year old.

My opinion is that she is nuts. As far as I am concerned the driving age should go back up to 18 years old and the drinking age go back to 20 years old.

What do you think?

Makes perfect sense.
They only need to buy the votes of a few blocks to hold on to power.
They went to work on women, Maori, the unemployed, students (remember the auction at the last election) and crims (that's why labour aren't tough on crime - doesn't pay to have all your voters in prison).
Now with their support low in the polls the easiest way forward for them is to expand one such group and this one is the easiest.

[BarBender]

Stuff it. Take out compulsory voting altogether and bring in "vote if you want to".

[Oakie]

Stuff it. Take out compulsory voting altogether and bring in "vote if you want to".
Thats what we already have. It's not compulsary to vote ... but it is complulsary to register to vote.

As an aside I seem to remember hearing a while ago that in the USA, there were more votes cast in that year's American Idol than in the last presidential election. Of course I guess you can multiple vote in American Idol so it probably doesn't mean anything.

[Skyryder]

Stuff it. Take out compulsory voting altogether and bring in "vote if you want to".

We don't have compulsary voting. Australia does. Sort of answers R in B's question does it not??


Skyryder

[The Stranger]

you working and pay tax you vote (doesn't matter how old you are)
you don't pay tax you don't get shit

Cajun for PM.
May I suggest another policy for when you are PM.
2 term maximum.
After that you are out.
Get rid of the farken career politicians. These are the ones (most of the current crop) that put their careers before the country they are suppoed to be serving.

[Oakie]

And Fiji may have a general election next year. I wonder which General they'll elect? :shutup:

[scumdog]

If your old enough to have a full time job/join the armed forces and pay taxes you should be allowed to vote. How many 16 year olds that can be arsed to go vote is another story.

And WHAT exactly does having a full time job/being in the Army have to do with being able to vote??????????

I've not met too many 16 year olds that would have a clue on how the country is run and what party is in power etc so I doubt they would make a good logical call when they voted.

[The Stranger]

I've not met too many 16 year olds that would have a clue on how the country is run and what party is in power etc so I doubt they would make a good logical call when they voted.

Why limit that to 16yr olds though. The majority of voters at the last election hadn't a clue either, that's why we have this lot now.

[scumdog]

you working and pay tax you vote (doesn't matter how old you are)
you don't pay tax you don't get shit

I like your ideas!

You don't work and pay taxes?

You don't get to vote and decide how the taxes are spent.

(Like we ever DO get a chance to decide?? - but you know what I mean)

[Cajun]

I like your ideas!

You don't work and pay taxes?

You don't get to vote and decide how the taxes are spent.

(Like we ever DO get a chance to decide?? - but you know what I mean)

I also must add, this would in class exclude the older people, they need a voice, but if you worked most of your light and retied ed you derseve to vote also

[Indiana_Jones]

Get rid of the farken career politicians. These are the ones (most of the current crop) that put their careers before the country they are suppoed to be serving.


Yep, that's Helen Clark. Went to Auckland uni, went into politics. Never worked a day in her life :angry:

And as it's been said, the Greens just want more votes from the dumb leftie, tree hugging, homo lovin', teenage "I'm gonna stick it to the man" knob sacks.

:done:

-Indy

[scumdog]

I also must add, this would in class exclude the older people, they need a voice, but if you worked most of your light and retied ed you derseve to vote also

Troo dat.

By getting older hopefully they have learned some facts of life.

[scumdog]

Yep, that's Helen Clark. Went to Auckland uni, went into politics. Never worked a day in her life :angry:

And as it's been said, the Greens just want more votes from the dumb leftie, tree hugging, homo lovin', teenage "I'm gonna stick it to the man" knob sacks.

:done:

-Indy

About time there was a rule: You have to have worked for at least 15 years before you are entitled to be a MP.

[onearmedbandit]

I almost choked on my tears of laughter last night when I saw her on TV suggesting this. Someone needs to remove her from her position of 'power' very quickly. And why do we let 16yr olds fight? Because the are full of bravado, a no-fear I'm not going to die attitude.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

I only ask who voted for her to get in and action stupid ideas? There have to be several more important topics to fight for!

what like mp pay rizes and more boy racer laws

[avgas]

Do what i do. If stuck with the choice between one asshole and another asshole. Don't vote.
I haven't since 2002....back then i was naive.
Apparently 20% of the country didn't vote last time. Surely according to democracy that should mean that 20% of the seats in the house should be empty.
Why the fuck vote for someone else to get an easy job on high pay.
Well thats just my pinion, and im an asshole

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Happy happy joy joy....
Bradford is a maniac. But a jury of her 'peers' would find her to be a saint. And that is exactly what this 16yo/vote bullshit is about. We all know that teenagers are idealistic creatures - having the vote for them would be like adding 200,000 Labour/Green votes. A wetdream for SB...

what a campain she whould want to lower the drinking age to 16

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Stuff it. Take out compulsory voting altogether and bring in "vote if you want to".

its compulsory some one forgot to tell 25% of the population thats proborbly why were in this state know

[Karma]

Who cares how old you have to be to vote, it's all rigged anyways... does anyone remember voting labour last time? Nah... me neither...

[jonbuoy]

And WHAT exactly does having a full time job/being in the Army have to do with being able to vote??????????

I've not met too many 16 year olds that would have a clue on how the country is run and what party is in power etc so I doubt they would make a good logical call when they voted.

Fairly obvious I would have thought - if your employed full time your giving a fair portion of your wages to the government in taxes - shouldn't you be able to choose which government gets the money? Your serving your country - you should have some say in the way your country is run. Not all 16 year olds are complete idiots.

[Hitcher]

There must have been an opinion poll taken that shows high levels of support for the Green Party in the 16-18 year-old age group. I can think of no other reason why Ms Bradford wants voters that age to get the right to vote.

As a counter, I'd like to see a system where people have to be net taxation contributors before they "earn" the right to vote, and then get an additional vote for every $1,000 they contribute in taxes. That should stop beneficiaries from having a vested interest in determining the state benefit system.

No representation without taxation!

[balans]

It's just a way for the Greens and Labour to get votes. What are the average 16 year olds political motivations? Either support for Nandor and his pot or Helen and the perceived short term benefits for them when they are at uni.

They are generally too naive to see the big picture and vote appropriately.

[YLWDUC]

And WHAT exactly does having a full time job/being in the Army have to do with being able to vote??????????

I wouldn't tar having a full time job and being in the army with the same brush. Being in the military is as good as being a public servant, which means bludging off the taxpayer like all the dole bludgers and DPB families.

Lower the voting age to 5 years old. As long as you can read and write (and that will of course excuse the new immigrants into the country) in the National language (which is English) and you're not in the slammer, I reckon you've got the right to vote.

Who gives a @#$% about people not using their vote or wasting it because they're idiots. Thats all part of democracy, and history has shown it's easier to manipulate stupid/lazy people than smart/motivated ones. Imagine if the ones who are on the receiving end of some new laws (smacking/boy-racing/ncea) had the right to speak out legally!

[shafty]

Sue Bradford is thinking about lowering the voting age to 16 year old.

My opinion is that she is nuts. As far as I am concerned the driving age should go back up to 18 years old and the drinking age go back to 20 years old.

What do you think?

Totally agree RIB, the drinking age is a FAILED experiment. People make the argument that "They can get married at 16" - but if it was your son or daughter, would you WANT them to marry at 16???????????????

[Lias]

Think about it. Which age group do you think is most likely to support the Green Party? The young and naive of course. Those who have a rosy view of what the world should be. (Legalise cannibis, don't smack yer kids, save the Snails/Trees/Swamps etc, increase the minimum wage to $14.00). If 16 and 17 year olds had the vote, I'd suspect that at least 30% of them would vote Green ... and in MMP, that could mean another Green MP or 2 which would really give the Greens the balance of power.

That's what this proposal is about.

How about one of you KB high school students arranging a poll amongst 16 and 17 year olds at your school to and see who they'd vote for. It might be interesting just to see how the demographic works.

Absolutely.. I'm somewhat surprised Labour isnt whole heartedly behind this as well, given that as my signature says liberalism is an essentially infantile world view. When people finally grow up they vote right wing :-)

[Lias]

There must have been an opinion poll taken that shows high levels of support for the Green Party in the 16-18 year-old age group. I can think of no other reason why Ms Bradford wants voters that age to get the right to vote.

As a counter, I'd like to see a system where people have to be net taxation contributors before they "earn" the right to vote, and then get an additional vote for every $1,000 they contribute in taxes. That should stop beneficiaries from having a vested interest in determining the state benefit system.

No representation without taxation!
Bugger representation for taxation, bring on representation for merit!

I've always been a huge fan of the meritocracy as portrayed in Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" (the book, not the parodical farce that was the movie). For those who havnt read it, to earn the right to vote you must enlist for a minimum 2 year term in the armed forces. If your not willing to go out and die for your country, you don't get to decide the fate of your country.

I wonder how many green party members have the testicular fortitude to fight and die for their country.. In the words of scribe I bet its "Not many.. if any.."

[deanohit]

to earn the right to vote you must enlist for a minimum 2 year term in the armed forces. If your not willing to go out and die for your country, you don't get to decide the fate of your country.

I wonder how many green party members have the testicular fortitude to fight and die for their country.. In the words of scribe I bet its "Not many.. if any.."

Thats an interesting point there mate,but what about the people who want to join but arnt allowed? I applied to join the navy last year and was turned down because of my medical history.Really though I think its a good idea.

[Lias]

Thats an interesting point there mate,but what about the people who want to join but arnt allowed? I applied to join the navy last year and was turned down because of my medical history.Really though I think its a good idea.

In the book they cover that.. Basically anyone who volunteers is never turned down, the quote goes something along the lines of "The service will always find something for you to do, even if its counting the hairs on the backs of caterpillers by touch in a research facility"

[Dargor]

Welcome Dargor. Can you post a pic of your bike...the 1885 model is sure to be interesting:innocent:
woops typo, all fixed now.

What about an iq test before you get to vote, or something simmilar.
It is troubling how easily the world floats over some people, how easily people vote for the person with the prettiest poster, dealing with those people is the biggest problem in democracy, and i dont see many answers.

[roogazza]

It won't be long and she'll decide we all have to have sex in the missionary position only. And then only every second week.
Pity she wasn't the one that was squashed by the falling concrete slab yesterday.

I'm very worried Crasher, that you mention Bradford and missionary position in the same post ??????????? Ughhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. I think a slab already got her ?

3. How many other positions are there anyway ? Gaz.

[Animal]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't politicians supposed to have a mandate which reflects the bidding of their electorate? This slapper (oh no, sorry, that's illegal now) is clearly pushing her own agenda - and bugger the people that voted her into the position of (dangerous) power she's in. How much more damage to the county is this clown allowed to do?

[MSTRS]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't politicians supposed to have a mandate which reflects the bidding of their electorate?
Sheesh - that went out once Heilen insisted that everybody voted her way...

... the people that voted he into the position of (dangerous) power she's in. ....
She is a list member. You and I etc can only get rid of her by ensuring the Greens get less than 5% of the vote next time

[Jantar]

There must have been an opinion poll taken that shows high levels of support for the Green Party in the 16-18 year-old age group. I can think of no other reason why Ms Bradford wants voters that age to get the right to vote.

As a counter, I'd like to see a system where people have to be net taxation contributors before they "earn" the right to vote, and then get an additional vote for every $1,000 they contribute in taxes. That should stop beneficiaries from having a vested interest in determining the state benefit system.

No representation without taxation!

This is the best idea posted so far. However I think that Hitcher is being too generous.

I would like to see a system whereby a person earns the right to vote when they have paid $10,000 in net tax, and receive one additional vote for every $30,000 in net tax paid. Any benefits received would of course lower their net tax, and so reduce their voting ability.

To account for families where one partner stays home to care for the children, we should allow income (and therefore tax) splitting.

Thus, no-one could leave school, go straight onto a benefit and expect to vote. People who are genuinely hard workers, and pay their taxes, benefit by getting extra votes, while those who are extremely wealthy and manage to avoid tax, will also avoid the right to vote. Those workers who become unemployed will only lose votes if they remain out of work for a considerable period of time.

[Hitcher]

I'd vote for that!

[Swoop]

Removing the right to vote, for convicts serving time in our jails is another point. They have acted against, and been found guilty of, the laws of the country.
Why should they have a say in how the country is run and the laws changed/enacted?
Once you are out of jail, your right to vote is returned.

[RiderInBlack]

I also must add, this would in class exclude the older people, they need a voiceSo do Solo Parents (raising kids is one hell of an important job). Have had the old "Unemployed" time in my life, I take offence at the idea that I would not have been able to vote had the voting just haven to have fallen on the month/s I was unemployed. I have faught hard to have the work I have now, and beleive me, it don't pay great. I would not like to live in a country that based your voting count on the amount of tax you pay like a shareholder's voting power in a company.

[Hitcher]

If people don't pay, why should they be allowed a say? They're lucky to be living in a country that has taxpayer-funded charity in the first place.

[RiderInBlack]

Who cares how old you have to be to vote, it's all rigged anyways... does anyone remember voting labour last time? Nah... me neither...I did (didn't like what National stood for at the time), but surprise, surprise, they didn't hold to their promises (then again what Poli does). They will have to work hard to get me to vote for them next time.

[RiderInBlack]

If people don't pay, why should they be allowed a say? They're lucky to be living in a country that has taxpayer-funded charity in the first place.
Because there are more ways to contribute to the Wellbeing of a Nation than just being rich enough to pay lots of taxes. Many people do very important "work" for this Country and get very little or nothing for it. Ya going to tell them they can't vote or they vote doesn't count as much as someone who makes heaps of money by ripping people off and doesn't actually produce anything? Sorry but that idea really sucks. The Donald Trumps of this world already have too much to say in running this World. They don't need to have more voting power.

[Sketchy_Racer]

im only 17.

Even i know this is a stupid idea!

Think of all the thousands of dollars that would be wasted on all the paperwork. What a fucking waste of time.

The Sur Bradford cow is nothing but a pain in the ass (not a pain in the ass for children anymore though) to NZ. How the hell can we get her out!

[Hitcher]

How the hell can we get her out!

Simple. Don't vote Green at the next election. And that's an arse you have a pain in. Presumably.

[Little Miss Trouble]

LOL. Its just been voted that junkfood should be removed from schools because these children aren't mature enough to make healthy food choices for themselves and now Bradford wants them to be allowed to vote??! :mellow:

[BarBender]

Thats what we already have. It's not compulsary to vote ... but it is complulsary to register to vote.



We don't have compulsary voting. Australia does. Sort of answers R in B's question does it not??



its compulsory some one forgot to tell 25% of the population thats proborbly why were in this state know

In my defense...I knew it was compulsory...but dont know why I posted it... :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :shutup:


There must have been an opinion poll taken that shows high levels of support for the Green Party in the 16-18 year-old age group. I can think of no other reason why Ms Bradford wants voters that age to get the right to vote.
As a counter, I'd like to see a system where people have to be net taxation contributors before they "earn" the right to vote, and then get an additional vote for every $1,000 they contribute in taxes. That should stop beneficiaries from having a vested interest in determining the state benefit system.
No representation without taxation!

Cheap populism indeed.

Re the tax idea...And high net worth individuals who pay more personal tax in one year than Joe Bloggs would get paid in 2?
You and a few of the old boys think that one up on the superyacht after your game of golf at Kauri Cliffs?

[Hitcher]

You and a few of the old boys think that one up on the superyacht after your game of golf at Kauri Cliffs?

Those "old boys" aren't paying any tax, so no votes for them. Muhahahahaha!

[NZsarge]

bring back the burning of witches!!!!!!!!

I'll bring some petrol and my zippo:Punk:

[Skyryder]

Not hard to see what your game is on this one Sue. And it has nothing to do with giving 16 year old school children the vote. And I don't buy the marriage, sex, or any other excuse that you can come up with. No you have a more cunning agenda.


Skyryder.

[Jantar]

Re the tax idea...And high net worth individuals who pay more personal tax in one year than Joe Bloggs would get paid in 2?
You and a few of the old boys think that one up on the superyacht after your game of golf at Kauri Cliffs?

The average income in New Zealand is now over $40,000 pa. For someone to be paying more than double this in tax they would need to be a salary or wage worker earning more than $250,000 pa and have no offsetting loss ventures like rental property.

I don't have any exact figures, but as all companies have to declare in their annual reports, the number of people earning more than $100,000, I do know that the number is very small.

The wealthiest people in New Zealand currently pay either no tax at all, or just a peppercorn amount. This is because they take their earnings as drawings, or they offset their earnings against depreciation in rental properties or other assests that don't attract capital gains tax.

[howdamnhard]

Sue Bradford is thinking about lowering the voting age to 16 year old.

My opinion is that she is nuts. As far as I am concerned the driving age should go back up to 18 years old and the drinking age go back to 20 years old.

What do you think?
I Agree with you.She is just on a power trip/ political high after her anti smacking bill went through despite the majority being against it.I suspect she a control freak.While on a rant and rave how about restricting the engine capacity/ kilowatt of learner cagers like us bikers have to be.:dodge:

[howdamnhard]

Not hard to see what your game is on this one Sue. And it has nothing to do with giving 16 year old school children the vote. And I don't buy the marriage, sex, or any other excuse that you can come up with. No you have a more cunning agenda.


Skyryder.

YE VOTES for the Green Party.:yes:

[RiderInBlack]

The average income in New Zealand is now over $40,000 pa.
That maybe be, but in areas such as Northland it is much lower than that. New Grad RN's were only getting 29,000pa and that was only if they did an improbable 40hours/week. Most could only get 32hrs/week (Nurses have rotating shifts, 32hrs/week is all ya want to do).
My income has been below $30,000 for some years now, and I aren't no lazy c*nt. I think some of you here need to spend some time on a really low income before coming up with shit like this. Wintertime now so as a Farrier, I'm barely getting by. Want ta swoop jobs & income? Sorry but I'm definitely not for a wealth base voting system.

[mark247]

Everyone any age should be allowed to vote but only if they dont vote Labour, Greens, or Progressive party!

[BarBender]

The average income in New Zealand is now over $40,000 pa. For someone to be paying more than double this in tax they would need to be a salary or wage worker earning more than $250,000 pa and have no offsetting loss ventures like rental property.

I don't have any exact figures, but as all companies have to declare in their annual reports, the number of people earning more than $100,000, I do know that the number is very small.

The wealthiest people in New Zealand currently pay either no tax at all, or just a peppercorn amount. This is because they take their earnings as drawings, or they offset their earnings against depreciation in rental properties or other assests that don't attract capital gains tax.

Similar approach although the median income in NZ is about 24K

So on that basis Id expect anyone paying 50K in tax earning in the 125-135k bracket. I’m not 100% sure on how many people earn 100K+ in New Zealand currently but I suspect that number has grown….especially in the metros and with the growth in industry, number employed and shortage of talent. Its not uncommon to have a scenario where Jack and Jill live together and earn that amount of coin (possibly more and in the case of professionals earn that amount each!), live in a metro such as Auckland, own a 500K+ home , have a couple of cars and are able to shop at Countdown as opposed to Pak n Save. They may even have a rental or patch of land by the sea, a trust and some coin sitting in the bank left over from their O.E in the UK.
They may not be the countrys wealthiest, but anyone earning 30-40K in Whangamomona will consider them high net worth individuals! I know the TSB would!

My example of the 'old men' was perhaps a little misleading. But it served a purpose.:shutup:
I’m suggesting that voting based on how much tax we pay does nothing but maintain the status quo and ensure the ever widening gap within the middle class continue to disagree and bumble around in the dark while the rich sit on their super yacht observing and smugly going…’Mhahahahaha’ :msn-wink:

[Paul in NZ]

bring back the burning of witches!!!!!!!!

You would need resource consent for that and need to consider the treaty implications so cosultation with local Iwi is essential.... and theres a fire ban... bugger...

[mbazza]

Stats indicate that 18 - 20 yr olds don't register or vote.

Why would 16 yr olds be any different?

More important things out there - see Donor's Heros in Rant & Rave.

Cheers.:dodge: