US scientists realise “Motorcycle noise can cause hearing threat”

[Bob]

The US Department of Transportation has finally caught up with the rest of the world. Despite the rest of us knowing that unless you protect your ears (something that, up to a certain point, wearing a helmet does), they have spent who knows how much commissioning the University of Florida to study the effect of motorcycle noise.

"Potentially, the vast majority of motorcyclists could be exposed to dangerous levels of noise," said Joy Colle, an investigator in the Florida study, which the university released before it was published in a medical or scientific journal.

According to the report, the noise from a motorcycle is as intense as ‘that from a loud rock concert and can permanently damage hearing’.

Of course, they could have saved a fortune and read any number of bike magazines from around the world – especially the ones that conduct tests of crash helmets, ear plugs…

[Warren]

‘that from a loud rock concert and can permanently damage hearing’.

Is that from the back or at the front near the speakers, and which song?

[Coldkiwi]

... yet another reason I think American bikers are stupid for not wearing helmets.

I reckon the rock concert analogy isn't far from the mark. I always use plugs and the wind noise that I had to endure last time I lost my ear plugs at a track day at Pukekohe going down the back straight was enough to make me come in and flag the rest of the day.

[Drunken Monkey]

104 decibels, baby!

:rockon:

eh?

[riffer]

According to the report, the noise from a motorcycle is as intense as ‘that from a loud rock concert and can permanently damage hearing’.
Crap. Only if you stick yoiur head next to the exhaust for more than an hour or two.

Try sticking you head inside a W-bin out of Oak Park's biggest rig when Motorhead are playing.

No comparison. I know. I've tried. :o

[dhunt]

The US Department of Transportation has finally caught up with the rest of the world. Despite the rest of us knowing that unless you protect your ears (something that, up to a certain point, wearing a helmet does), they have spent who knows how much commissioning the University of Florida to study the effect of motorcycle noise.What took so long. Biking as been around for a long time. That paper trail must be pretty impressive.

One ride out of town on my bike at speeds >=100km (only up to 109km of course) and you can feel your ears start getting sore.

[riffer]

What took so long. Biking as been around for a long time. That paper trail must be pretty impressive.

One ride out of town on my bike at speeds >=100km (only up to 109km of course) and you can feel your ears start getting sore.
True, but I have NEVER on a motorcycle encountered volume at such a level that your ears are crackling and distorting with the sound, and when you clean your ears out the next day there is blood in them.

I have, however, done that after rock concerts.

And yes, to answer your next question, my hearing is not the best. Ask my wife. If there are two sources of noise going on, I can't understand what's going on. ie if you try and talk to me while the stereo or telly is going, or one of the kids is talking too, I don't know what you've said.

I guess it's all downhill from here....

[Blakamin]

I have, however, done that after rock concerts.

And yes, to answer your next question, my hearing is not the best. Ask my wife. If there are two sources of noise going on, I can't understand what's going on. ie if you try and talk to me while the stereo or telly is going, or one of the kids is talking too, I don't know what you've said.

I guess it's all downhill from here....

sounds like mine.... drives me nuts
and i'm sick of people lookin at me strange when i go to concerts these days and take earplugs :eek5:

[Coldkiwi]

True, but I have NEVER on a motorcycle encountered volume at such a level that your ears are crackling and distorting with the sound, and when you clean your ears out the next day there is blood in them.


well, I only did it for a few laps before coming in, but if you're really interested in the comparison, give the pukekohe treatment a go.. (wouldn't recommend it professionally though!)
having said that.. I have been to some concerts where I started fearing for my hearing and had ringing for the next 3 days!

[Mongoose]

I wonder if there was a bike comparison study done. Wind noise does a fair bit of deafening at certain ranges of noise. But I bet a cranked open HD with straight pipes makes a hell of a lot more noise than a, ummmm, Pacific coast?

[dhunt]

I wonder if there was a bike comparison study done. Wind noise does a fair bit of deafening at certain ranges of noise. But I bet a cranked open HD with straight pipes makes a hell of a lot more noise than a, ummmm, Pacific coast?
Have a look at this link. This talks about it.
http://www.msgroup.org/TIP150.html

[Coldkiwi]

'helmets only cut noise by 3dB?'

YEAH RIGHT! Maybe on an open face lid but its blimmin obvious to me that my full face KBC (not that flash) drops the noise by at least 7-10dbA (3dbA reduction is 'just noticeable', 10dBA reduction is half the volume)

anyway... hows this!?
Second, you can wear earplugs. There are some problems associated with doing this, not withstanding the fact that in some states it is illegal to do so. (You can legally drive a motorcycle if you are deaf, but not wear earplugs - fancy that.)
Illegal to wear ear plugs!? what numbnut american state put that law through?

thanks for the link Dhunt. I've been looking for some information on that (being an acoustic engineer and all) and I've even thought of doing some tests but i have yet to come up with a cunning way of mounting a microphone in the helmet and suitably measuring the noise while on a ride.... *brain ticks away*

[Coldkiwi]

Did a brief bit of digging and it looks like the issue has been recognised for some time and there is a considerable amount of information being gathered. Interesting articles I've found so far are:
Green Leopard News (http://www.greenleopard.co.uk/story3)
University of Florida (http://www.napa.ufl.edu/2004news/motorcyclenoise.htm)

theres a guy called Dr McCombe who seems to have done a HECK of a lot of work on this subject so I'll have a trawl through and see what he's come up with

[Mongoose]

'helmets only cut noise by 3dB?'
thanks for the link Dhunt. I've been looking for some information on that (being an acoustic engineer and all) and I've even thought of doing some tests but i have yet to come up with a cunning way of mounting a microphone in the helmet and suitably measuring the noise while on a ride.... *brain ticks away*

Just hollow out the soft white stuff in your helmet to the size required for a microphone, no worries! Heard of one dude that did that to fit his radar detector in "Well, that makes it the highest part of the bike for better detection" Wonder what would happen to the scull in the invent of a prang?

[jrandom]

True, but I have NEVER on a motorcycle encountered volume at such a level that your ears are crackling and distorting with the sound, and when you clean your ears out the next day there is blood in them.

Ouch.

I say again, OUCH.

I've had a couple of times when people thought that letting off a 12-gauge or .308 inches away from my head (pointing elsewhere, obviously) seemed like a good idea, but that just resulted in me saying "eh?" to everything for the next hour or so, Black Hawk Down style. No blood, and I can still hear CRT capacitor whine quite clearly.

[Mongoose]

Ouch.

I say again, OUCH.

I've had a couple of times when people thought that letting off a 12-gauge or .308 inches away from my head (pointing elsewhere, obviously) seemed like a good idea, but that just resulted in me saying "eh?" to everything for the next hour or so, Black Hawk Down style. No blood, and I can still hear CRT capacitor whine quite clearly.

Ahhh, tis a whole range of noises us humans hear, being deaf to one does not always stop you hearing the other. Can relate to the muzzle blast inches away from the head, maybe that why I can still hear ringing untill the back ground noise level gets high enough

[jrandom]

Ahhh, tis a whole range of noises us humans hear, being deaf to one does not always stop you hearing the other. Can relate to the muzzle blast inches away from the head, maybe that why I can still hear ringing untill the back ground noise level gets high enough

Hmmm. I always thought HF was the first thing to go, and the main cause of not being able to differentiate sources as described by celticno6, but I guess I wouldn't really know. :spudwhat:

I'm suspect I'm lucky to have escaped permanent tinnitus so far, what with the teenage years spent listening to Floyd and Zep through headphones (this headphone amp goes to 11, man!) the recreational gunnery and, most recently, the daily motorcycling (without earplugs).

I should probably start taking better care.

[Mongoose]

I should probably start taking better care.

Yup, because once you notice the symtoms its way to late, ears dont repair themselves to well

[pete376403]

Yup, because once you notice the symtoms its way to late, ears dont repair themselves to well

If at all. As one who has suffered with mild -> severe -> profound deafness caused by a combination of measles and antibiotics, plus otosclerosis, it annoys me so much to observe how people expose their hearing to damage.
I can be fixed (sort of), the implant will be done in November but it's expensive - $48,000 (one side only) Makes ear plugs at $4 or so a set look pretty cheap.

[NordieBoy]

'helmets only cut noise by 3dB?'

YEAH RIGHT! Maybe on an open face lid but its blimmin obvious to me that my full face KBC (not that flash) drops the noise by at least 7-10dbA (3dbA reduction is 'just noticeable', 10dBA reduction is half the volume)


Dropping by 3dB is dropping by half.

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/graphics/LI.GIF

[jrandom]

Dropping by 3dB is dropping by half.

My fingers twitched briefly with this upon reading CK's post, but I restrained my pedantry; I figure his point is that while the dB numbers measure the intensity of a compression wave on a logarithmic scale, our psychoacoustic perception (how our ears interpret loudness) tends to be that something with half the energy is 'a little softer', something with 10% of the energy is 'half as loud', etc.

[Blakamin]

My fingers twitched briefly with this upon reading CK's post, but I restrained my pedantry; I figure his point is that while the dB numbers measure the intensity of a compression wave on a logarithmic scale, our psychoacoustic perception (how our ears interpret loudness) tends to be that something with half the energy is 'a little softer', something with 10% of the energy is 'half as loud', etc.

Dont make me get out my "School of Audio Engineering" books coz i've forgotten where they are

[Coldkiwi]

My fingers twitched briefly with this upon reading CK's post, but I restrained my pedantry; I figure his point is that while the dB numbers measure the intensity of a compression wave on a logarithmic scale, our psychoacoustic perception (how our ears interpret loudness) tends to be that something with half the energy is 'a little softer', something with 10% of the energy is 'half as loud', etc.

thank you for your kindness J! :msn-wink:

I didn't realise there were audiofiles lurking. If I had I might've said something more along the lines of
'To be precise, a 3dB(A) (relative to 10^-12 Pa) drop in sound PRESSURE level is generally (based on an absolute mountain of audiology research over many years) the smallest difference a human ear/brain can percieve between two identical spectrum shapes. In contrast, a 10db(A) decrease in sound pressure level represents a halving of perceived loudness.
Note that this is FUNDAMENTALLY different to the ratios used for expressions relating to sound POWER. In the case of sound POWER, a 3dB(A) drop represents a halving of the amount of ENERGY'.

but then again :whocares:

[jrandom]

3dB(A) (relative to 10^-12 Pa) drop in sound PRESSURE level wibble blob wobble eddificated book-larnin' talk

So... did I get it right, then?

[jrandom]

I didn't realise there were audiofiles lurking.

My headphone amp goes to 11 because I *built* the sucker.

[Coldkiwi]

I can be fixed (sort of), the implant will be done in November but it's expensive - $48,000 (one side only) Makes ear plugs at $4 or so a set look pretty cheap.

exactly. It seems ridiculous not to look after ones hearing when all the evidence points to wind noise being a problem and the solution to reducing the noise is so, so cheap. Good quality foam ear plugs can be bought in bulk for well under a $1 a pair as well

[Coldkiwi]

So... did I get it right, then?

yep, that was the essence of it. I just felt the need to jump on these acoustic misnomers before they got out of hand (lord knows I deal with enough people in the building industry (I'm an acoustic engineer for those of you wondering) that have only a little bit of acoustic knowledge, and generally its bass-ackwards and is a right pain in the proverbial to straighten out!)

[jrandom]

I'm an acoustic engineer

What would it take to build a kid's bedroom with 100dB of effective noise damping between it and the outside hallway?

I'm deadly serious, by the way...

[Mongoose]

Did ya know its deaf awareness week this week?


I SAID DO YOU KNOW ITS DEAF AWARENESS WEEK THIS WEEK

[toads]

Eh??? What you say???, seriously I have noticed my husband has a bit of industrial deafness and I have had a hearing problem most of my life, hearing is very easily lost and not easily regained, earplugs are cheap and effective.

[Mongoose]

Eh??? What you say???, seriously I have noticed my husband has a bit of industrial deafness and I have had a hearing problem most of my life, hearing is very easily lost and not easily regained, earplugs are cheap and effective.

Thats not industrial deafness, thats wife deafness :2thumbsup :thud:

[Coldkiwi]

What would it take to build a kid's bedroom with 100dB of effective noise damping between it and the outside hallway?

I'm deadly serious, by the way...

large amounts of concrete, sealant, and several steel doors! :buggerd:

Alternatively, get some improvement by replacing the door with a solid core one (every normal residential house/apartment in NZ gets crappy internal walls and 'whaafer' thin hollowcore doors), adding two lots of Raven RP 2 seals around the door frame and putting an RP 8 automatic seal in the bottom. (Mitre 10 stock them and they're not that pricey)

Once you've done that, think about adding some more layers of plasterboard to the kids walls and ceiling... or pulling the walls down and replacing them with 150 staggered studs and putting some fibreglass/polyester batts in the cavity.

[thehollowmen]

What would it take to build a kid's bedroom with 100dB of effective noise damping between it and the outside hallway?

I'm deadly serious, by the way...

Try double glazing or tripple glazing... we put that the new double glazing up on a mountain hut with plenty of insulation, and locked our mates out by accident and couldn't hear them yelling trying to get back in...

[jrandom]

Try double glazing or tripple glazing... we put that the new double glazing up on a mountain hut with plenty of insulation, and locked our mates out by accident and couldn't hear them yelling trying to get back in...

I don't want to watch them through a window from the hallway. And I don't care if they bother the neighbours across the road. I just want to be unable to hear them yelling at each other at 6am.

[jrandom]

large amounts of concrete, sealant, and several steel doors! :buggerd:

Mmm. Concrete.


Alternatively, get some improvement by replacing the door with a solid core one (every normal residential house/apartment in NZ gets crappy internal walls and 'whaafer' thin hollowcore doors), adding two lots of Raven RP 2 seals around the door frame and putting an RP 8 automatic seal in the bottom. (Mitre 10 stock them and they're not that pricey)

Once you've done that, think about adding some more layers of plasterboard to the kids walls and ceiling... or pulling the walls down and replacing them with 150 staggered studs and putting some fibreglass/polyester batts in the cavity.

Sigh.

By the time I can afford that, they'll be old enough to remember the threats about what will happen if they disturb me...

[riffer]

Hmmm. I always thought HF was the first thing to go, and the main cause of not being able to differentiate sources as described by celticno6...
I'm not too sure if it's loss of High Frequency.

I've had my hearing tested many times, as I started touring the country in rock bands from the age of 13 (nearly 25 years ago), and my hearing was always a concern, particularly given some of the stuff I used to do to it.

On my hearing tests I have always and continue to score well. The thing with the hearing tests, is that they only give you ONE tone at a time, and I can hear that fine, all the way up to about 15,000 Khz, so there's a bit of HF loss, but not as bad as you'd expect, and I can certainly pick out high frequency sounds.

My hearing problem seems to be about the 5khz range, which is midrange. Also seems to be the range of human voices and guitars as well.

Maybe its 25 years of standing in front of Marshall stacks has caused damage in this part of the range, rather than high frequency. I guess I should read some old interviews with Pete Townshend - he seems to have similar hearing loss to me, but just more so.

Then again, he used to stand in front of 30 Marshall stacks, not 1 or 2... :mellow:

[riffer]

Just found this too:

Diabetes in itself is a nasty problem and the ear is particularly sensitive to anything related to circulation. As a consequence, diabetics are frequently the victims of sudden changes in hearing levels as a result of interruptions in the circulation to the ear. Tinnitus (head noises such as ringing) are most usually a symptom of some degree of hearing loss. It is often a sort of spontaneous firing of damaged hearing nerves much like the itching and throbbing related to injury to nerves of touch.

[riffer]

Wow. I've just found a whole stack of info suggesting a correlation between diabetes and hearing loss.

I guess I really haven't done my hearing any favours.

[Coldkiwi]

Sigh.

By the time I can afford that, they'll be old enough to remember the threats about what will happen if they disturb me...

Don't be so cheap! Those RP2 seals are only a couple of bucks a metre and the only vaguely costly bit would be the solid door... and I'm sure you could find a suitable one at a demo place that you could cut, paint and hang for not too much at all. You'd be really surprised how much sound will be coming out that door and fitting a door bottom seal ($40 or somat) will really make a difference. It'd only take a few hours to cut, paint and hang the door too.

Typical... people complain about the noise but don't want to pay to fix it up! :pokey: (Thats why I don't mind that residential people with complaints generally don't come to us for advice!)

[jrandom]

:spudguita


Pete Townshend

Who?

[jrandom]

Don't be so cheap!

I'm not.

Before I can do any of the above, I have to buy a house to do it to. But it's comforting to know that it's possible.


Typical... people complain about the noise but don't want to pay to fix it up!

No, of course not. That's the gubmint's job.

[riffer]

:spudguita



Who?
Not bad... :whistle:

[vifferman]

Wow. I've just found a whole stack of info suggesting a correlation between diabetes and hearing loss.

I guess I really haven't done my hearing any favours.My father was a diabetic, and didn't have too many problems with his hearing, but not managing his diabetes very well stuffed his eyesight. Then medication he was on in hospital wrecked his hearing, very rapidly.:(

[Slipstream]

I can be fixed (sort of), the implant will be done in November but it's expensive - $48,000 (one side only) Makes ear plugs at $4 or so a set look pretty cheap.

Having gone to many, many raves (Hard House/Drum n Bass) i've tried many different earplugs, including rolled up toilet paper and cotton wool (BTW the last 2 are not adviseable :Oops: )
Yes spending $4 on ear plugs is definitely better than losing your hearing, but getting the wrong type of earplugs can actually damage your ears also.

There are some ear plugs that are sorta designed like Xmas trees made out of _durable_ plastic. Designers build them for one size fits all, when we all know that this is almost never true. If you have a small earhole, jamming a big earplug in is going to be almost as damaging as having a big earhole and losing it in there.
Tony's Tyre service handed their workers a similar type of these and they seem to have been made from a softer plastic, therefore more flexible with the ear hole. The most effective _I've_ ever used.

You can also get foam, gel and different type of plastic earplugs.

But from all of this I stick to the old granny saying, "Don't stick anything in your ear that's smaller than your elbow."
I use headphones now or limit loud sounds as much as possible. Sometimes just wearing a beannie over my ears under my helmet, muffles the noise a lot.

I also seem to remember that babbies crying is a decibel than a motorcyle engine running. But I suppose that depends on the kid and the bike :yes:

[Slipstream]

Have a look at this link. This talks about it.
http://www.msgroup.org/TIP150.html

Good article. :yeah:

What is this James R. Davis anyway? Doctor, journalist or scientist?