Packracks-Are they a hazzard?

[Dodgyiti]

Having never had a bike with a packrack, I have some questions about them.
In the past, well, years and years ago I was going to fit a packrack to my bike.
Several friends advised me not to do it because they seemed to think that in the event of an accident, my passenger, and possibly myself, would have trouble getting clear of the bike because of the metal frame.
So I took their advice and never fitted a pack rack.
20 years later and here I am purchasing a bike with one already fitted.
The frame lifts out, so if it is better not having one 2up, I can just pull it off.
But what is speculation and what is fact about these things?
Has anyone had any firsthand experience with crashing and the passenger or rider being unable to make a clear exit from the bike because of the packrack frame?
Or perhaps there is some stasticical data out there someone has read? :mellow:
You can call me safety mad, or a nanna, or whatever, but you can add alive to the end eh? :eek:

P.S. Thanks to everyone who answered my post about CBR1000's. I have found one from the many avaliable, and take possesion on Thursday. Yay!
Now 'er indoors will be keen as to come riding with all that nice comfortable seating etc.. as compared with the spartian Guzzler. :sunny:

[dangerous]

well...... motorbikes are 'dangerous' aye. So with the pack rack on isent really going to make a hell of a lot of difference.
IMO in a acco the rack is going to get riped off same as the rider/pillion (depending on suition) so I wouldent worry about it myself, ofcourse I use a pack rack so I would say this, but if you look at my profile you will notice on the Guzzi that the rack is missing however it has been replaced with a grab rail ($22) you may prefure to get one of those when not on the night away rides. Or attached is the sport rack which is bloody brillent for day rides, but for touring ya cant beat the full rack.
Dont worry bout it....... ride it :spudwave:

[Jackrat]

When I had my GS850 I put a venture rack on it.
It had fixed mounts that you could remove the big rack from and replace it with a small one that also had a grab rail built in.
I had the same concerns as you but in the end when I crashed the bike with the big rack on,it got wiped clean off the bike.
I use saddle bags now days but I'd use the same type of rack again no worrys.

[dangerous]

Ohh... and should of said, a few years back a bunch of 10 riders on 8 bikes were returning from the Queenstown rally and in the Hasst Pass when a "KIWI EXPERANCE" bus with a 17yr old un licenced driver took 6 bikes out, on the two bikes that were 2 up and with pack racks on biffed the packs and racks of along with riders/pillions no harm was done to them due to having a pack rack on, however the hard black stuff did send one off in the chopper and 2 in the ambo another in the police car.

ps: a/hole bus driver had a rich daddy and got of with just about every thing :mad:

[scumdog]

well...... motorbikes are 'dangerous' aye. So with the pack rack on isent really going to make a hell of a lot of difference.
IMO in a acco the rack is going to get riped off same as the rider/pillion (depending on suition) so I wouldent worry about it myself, ofcourse I use a pack rack so I would say this, but if you look at my profile you will notice on the Guzzi that the rack is missing however it has been replaced with a grab rail ($22) you may prefure to get one of those when not on the night away rides. Or attached is the sport rack which is bloody brillent for day rides, but for touring ya cant beat the full rack.
Dont worry bout it....... ride it :spudwave:

Don't like the big 'overhang', with a lot of weight it must cause an effect on the handling etc., if one-up I would have the pack facing other way, also some of those racks that sit about ten feet tall must be a bugger for causing a lot of drag and I guess side winds must affect them too, - my 2 cents worth.

(sorry, thought picture from the above quote would be showing)

[Mongoose]

Personal opinion, as is rife on this site, I would not thank you for a pack rack unless it was the only way of carrying gear. I would sooner opt for saddlebags, soft or hard, mainly because I think the effect on the bike and how it handles is less with the weight kept lower.Also it always concerns me to see how much flex is in some of those pack racks, and have had one fall off another bike infront of me, man do they bounce or what!!

[pete376403]

My old Zooki has factory fitted hard bags and a top box (more or less equivalent to a packrack with a loaded pack fitted). Similar to Gold Wings, Venture Royales, BMWs, etc.
This bike was intended mainly for the litigation-mad US market. If they thought there was the slightest chance that such a fitting was dangerous, or added more hazard to motorcycling - dangerous as it is already - it never would have made it to market.
There is a warning sticker on the topbox, but it refers only to overloading.

Some of the more serious tourers have armrests for the pillion, and a back rest for the rider. With all these in place the pillion is more or less trapped on the bike (the only quick way out is straight up), yet I've never seen any comments about associated "danger".

[Skunk]

I've had Ventura racks fitted to all my bikes (yep, even the old DR) and never had any probelms other than the pillon getting their leg over (the bike! :bleh: ).

Handling changes came down to the weight in the pack and whether it was facing forwards or backwards. One up I always had it forwards. Had MUCH less effect than a pillion.

I've had more 'issues' with saddlebags (did someone say my saddlebags smoking? :mad: )

[FROSTY]

I've had pack racks fitted to most of my bikes and to be honest I actually feel safer with one on that without one.
That and the simple convenience of throwing the pack on and buggering off suits me.

[Mongoose]

I've had Ventura racks fitted to all my bikes (yep, even the old DR) and never had any probelms other than the pillon getting their leg over (the bike! :bleh: ).

Handling changes came down to the weight in the pack and whether it was facing forwards or backwards. One up I always had it forwards. Had MUCH less effect than a pillion.

I've had more 'issues' with saddlebags (did someone say my saddlebags smoking? :mad: )

Must be a smal pack on the bike in your pic :killingme

[Jackrat]

Don't like the big 'overhang', with a lot of weight it must cause an effect on the handling etc., if one-up I would have the pack facing other way, also some of those racks that sit about ten feet tall must be a bugger for causing a lot of drag and I guess side winds must affect them too, - my 2 cents worth.

(sorry, thought picture from the above quote would be showing)
In the case of my GS the handling actualy improved quite a bit.
It was probably a one off thing but these bikes were way front heavy,that combined with the shaft drive could make it really shake it's head at times.
I found when I had the pack on(fully loaded 70 liter)the bike became much more stable.The main frame could be turned on the mounts so it didn't over hang. The day I pushed it into a massive tank slapper I didn't have the pack on,just the frame :o

[wari]

ONe time IWas doiin a runnin repairon my bike on the side of the maineroad bike on centre stande ..

HOpped on the bike afterr I was done and rocked off the stande ...

Left leg went downe to touch the ground, butt because of the camember it went downe fart-her than I expectid ...

CON-see-quently the weight of the packracke™ (and tankbag and full tank) got the bike on an inevitabel unstoppable fall ...

All I could do was soften the impact ...

So Yeah ... make your owne conck-lusions ... :spudwave:

[wari]

OH YEah ...

I always have the pack sitin' on the seat side of the racke ... :sunny:

[Lou Girardin]

Ventura sell them in the litigation capital of the world, USA. So they must be confident. There are loading and speed restrictions on their use too.
I prefer Givi for the convienience of be able to take them off the bike like suitcases and being waterproof. Dare I say it, almost like touring in a cage.

[wari]

WAterpfoor ... :sunny:

THats what black plastic rubbish bagges are for ... :spudwave:

[Blackbird]

The full Ventura system I have causes no problem at all and even with short bursts at over twice the legal limit, you still don't know it's there.

Geoff

[TonyB]

First, let me say I reckon the purpose built systems like the ones Ventura make with the frame and the bags wouldn't have this problem. What I'm talking about here is an ordinary pack rack with a fuggen great tramping pack sitting on the seat behind you. These Packracks can definitely cause dodgy handling, this incident happened because I was travelling far quicker than I should have been, but I guess it could happen at legal speeds too.....
I used to do a lot of high speed trips betwixt Chch and Nelson about 10 years back. I had a packrack and the pack (ordinary tramping pack) used to sit on the pillion seat. I was going around a left hand bend at high speed on one occasion when the bike hit a decent bump mid corner, this made the bike wobble, which made the pack wobble, which made the bike wobble, which made the pack wobble, which made the bike wobble....get the idea? With the bike and the pack working as a tag team and making the whole package oscillate, the grip from the tyres was reduced. The whole plot began drifting across the road- I knew I wasn't going to fall off, the issue was would I run out of road or would something come the other way. It finally stopped and I got it under control when I was just over the white line on the wrong side of the road. I was very lucky that nothing came the other way and that the road wasn't half a metre narrower. In hindsight I probably didn't help the cause, as I no doubt would have taken a death grip on the bars which wouldn't have helped at all.

Of course I was in my early 20's, young and stupid(er than today)- so my solution was not to slow down in future- nope, I ditched that packrack and bought some throw over bags and a tank bag. Worked a treat.

[Onespeed]

WAterpfoor ... :sunny:

THats what black plastic rubbish bagges are for ... :spudwave:


I wrote off a GSXR600 by using plastic bags for waterproofing. Had a plastic bag of clothes on the pillion seat and a small back pack on top of that. Both were secured with a cargo net (or so I thought). After about an hour of riding the cargo managed to slop off the bike and find itself on the back wheel resulting in a horrendusly long skid and highside. :bash:

I don't think plastic bags are a good idea atall.:nono:

[dangerous]

Packracks can definitely cause dodgy handling, this incident happened because I was travelling far quicker than I should have been, but I guess it could happen at legal speeds too.....

purpose built systems like the ones Ventura make with the frame and the bags wouldn't have this problem.
Quite true...... but IMO these systems are still the safest way to carry gear, as you can see by my attachment the packs are well tested (see small print)


I wrote off a GSXR600 Both were secured with a cargo net (or so I thought).
emm...... another reason for not doing the cheap thing

[vifferman]

Great! A whole bunch of replies from people with little personal experience.:doh:
I've had these on my last two bikes, AND crashed one of them twice with the packrack (and bag) on. No problemo. If you don't overload them (and I've done that - with all my gear AND 2 fire extinguishers in one), they don't affect the handling too badly. Yes, they do make a bit of difference to the handling, but no more than most other luggage systems, and less than a Givi top box, as they sit further forward and slightly lower down than a topbox. And, as has been mentioned, if you ride with the bag on the pillion seat, it's barely noticeable. There is a slight amount of wind drag (I've ridden the same route with/without bags to check), but once again, it's by no means dangerous.
Saddlebags - yeah! I've had one catch on fire when test-riding a bike, and someone I work with had a friend merrily riding up the Southern with all their belongings on fire. If that's not a safety hazard, I dunno what is.
The best thing in crashes are those Givi sidecases, as they actually save the bike from some damage (at the expense of the cases, of course). But the packracks aren't going to make things worse in a crash, and in the two I had with a Bathurst pack on (the big Ventura bag), it wasn't damaged, and did no harm. (The only time it was damaged was when I didn't tie it on, and it came off when I was jumpoing speed humps. The only damage was a bit of a scuff of the material and reflective patch.)

[Dodgyiti]

Cheers for all the replies you lot. :not:
Peoples views are gathered from life and its many experiences.
And if you want to learn, then it is always good to ask.
Someone had a famous saying " I never learned anything with my mouth open "
And a forum like this is the perfect way of emulating that expression.
I think I will use the rack, and be careful on what I put in it and how the load is distrubuted, and I fully agree that saddle bags for the heavy stuff are the go for stability and all.. :sunny:
Cool, can't wait to load all the gears and 'er indoors for a bit of touring, roll on summer [ the real summer, not that sudo Auckland summer]
Rock on.. :niceone:

[Grumpy]

Had a packframe on my RF900 when I had a spill.

The packframe wasn't a problem.........

but the f..kin' hedge I hit sure was :whistle:

[HDSpringer]

WAterpfoor ... :sunny:

THats what black plastic rubbish bagges are for ... :spudwave:
Rubish Bags, are for the saddle bags, you can't go past a Givi top box for convenience, The added weight holds my tire on the ground better, and reduces the amount of softail slap, if the Wife could put on some weight she would be just as useful. I have had a topbox or a back rest for the last 10 years, when it comes to an off, the pillions seem to find there way to the ground quick enough, the comfort apparatus on the back dosn't seem to impede them at all.

[mangell6]

Wife has the complete Ventura Pack system on her BMW F650GS and uses the complete pack system. Secret is to get the weight over the rear wheel not at the back of it. Has the pack on the rear seat behind her. I personally use saddle bags, with green rubbish bags inside for extra protection.

Here are some examples of other options.

[HDSpringer]

Wife has the complete Ventura Pack system on her BMW F650GS and uses the complete pack system. Secret is to get the weight over the rear wheel not at the back of it. Has the pack on the rear seat behind her. I personally use saddle bags, with green rubbish bags inside for extra protection.

Here are some examples of other options.
I was wondering.. do you think that top box, hard bags and a trailer, could be a little over the top when travelling Solo.... Now there is a guys who dosn't know how to rough it.. Possibly never had the joys of a Swag Bag.

[Aleph]

No experience on accident issues but I did like having a packrack there for when the wife would fall asleep on the back of the bike.

[Uncle B]

Had a big 45L Givi hard case...half the time i didnt know it was there.
The only prob was swinging the leg over.