Party pills BANNED!

[Steam]

Aarg!
I use them and I like them.
Totally legal in shops now, selling BZP will be punishable by EIGHT YEARS IN JAIL when it becomes illegal. It'll be a class C1 drug.

A glass of Nanny-State, anyone?

[jrandom]

Drugs are bad, mm kay?

[Str8 Jacket]

Yep, Jims my hero! Next it'll be alcohol, then ciggies..... Oh hang, they make too much money out of those.... Is no one allowed to make their own decisions anymore?

[MrMelon]

I don't use it myself but it wasn't really doing a lot of harm considering the amount of it being consumed every week around the country, so what's banning it going to achieve? People will probably be more likely to just get real pills (ecstacy) now instead of a cheap pack of herbals for a night out since they're both illegal now but one's much better than the other. I can only see this move boosting gangs' revenues.

I don't have a problem with people who use party pills but I think the right to choose whether or not they take a particular substance should be a personal decision, not the government's. Especially if the effects aren't greatly detrimental to society. Of course there are exceptions, methamphetamine seems like bad news but there are a lot of other drugs out there doing much less harm. All illegal drug use combined probably does less damage than alcohol anyway.

[ManDownUnder]

I'd like to request a big ol' glass of "who gives a shit"?

No really... a big glass.

[bane]

oh well, we're just joining USA, Aussie and most of europe in banning BZP - be easier to get P soon... and probably cheaper...

[Str8 Jacket]

I'd like to request a big ol' glass of "who gives a shit"?

No really... a big glass.

I do! I dont take the things anymore. Used to but I went a bit crazy on them.... Anyway, I am worried that some people may now start using harder drugs just for that high and sometimes that can lead to addiction. Party pills while nasty things were keeping some younger people of "the harder stuff".

[MisterD]

So, should I be buying shares in Lion now, or are party pill users going to head to other illegal highs?

I reckon it'll be interesting to see who gets to say "I told you so" after this one...

[NighthawkNZ]

Why the fuck would any one want to take BZP (cattle drench :gob: )

must have been some farmer up north and decided mmmmm cattle drench

[ManDownUnder]

Why the fuck would any one want to take BZP (cattle drench :gob: )

must have been some farmer up north and decided mmmmm cattle drench


Poos?????????

[scumdog]

Couldn't care less about them, not that many are bought down here any more - booze causes more problems (but even bigger problems when mixed with party-pills).

[canarlee]

i have heard of these "party pills", but could someone please explain what they are/do please!


im not taking the piss here

[Madness]

BZP created the industry in NZ over the past 5 years or so. Now soon to become controlled, I believe replacement synthetic substances will come to the fore. As new regulations will require independent testing & a compliance framework it will be expensive. We're likely IMHO, to see a Party Pills equivalent to become even more mainstream. One or two market players with mass marketing like Coke & Pepsi.

I've heard the profit margin for retailers in selling Party Pills is around 50%. This is 5 times higher than Tobacco. Mr patel will not be happy.

I have never tried them and doubt very much that it's the end of the indusrty in N.Z.

[canarlee]

yeah but what are they? legal "e" or summit?

[scumdog]

i have heard of these "party pills", but could someone please explain what they are/do please!


im not taking the piss here

They are crappy pills which keep you wired up all night long and give you lots of 'zing', you can't get to sleep when you want to either.

They also give you the hang-over-and-come-down-from-hell.:yes:

[Flatcap]

Nice of the government to hand the gangs another income stream...

[Madness]

They are crappy pills which keep you wired up all night long and give you lots of 'zing', you can't get to sleep when you want to either.

They also give you the hang-over-and-come-down-from-hell.:yes:

How do you know?

[Hitcher]

I'm often aghast at how the same people who demand country-of-origin, percentage-of-daily-intake and E number labelling, the Heart Foundation tick, assurances that food is free of GM, hormones, antibiotics and that no animals were unnecessarily harmed in the production of a burger flipped lovingly by a multinational corporation are more than happy, nay delighted, to swallow products that contain fuck-knows-what and which were brewed in a Naenae garage by some illiterate hoodie who failed fourth form chemistry.

Party pills are evil on many scores. Their production and distribution is currently unregulated as they are neither a pharmaceutical nor a food product. If they were either of these, they would be banned on quality compliance and labelling issues alone.

But then I'm an old fart who has to ride a motorcycle for excitement. What the fuck would I know about these new-fangled cock-shrinking drugs?

[Str8 Jacket]

How do you know?

He's right though....

[Blondini]

Why the fuck would any one want to take BZP (cattle drench :gob: )

must have been some farmer up north and decided mmmmm cattle drench

Yeah I figure the cows must have started leaping fences and running hard out:yes: Best news I have heard in a long time banning them.I would hate my kids taking these and causing god only knows what damage.:sunny:

[Mom]

I'd like to request a big ol' glass of "who gives a shit"?

No really... a big glass.

I am with you here mate, never used them, dont have a strong opinion on their banning


I do! I dont take the things anymore. Used to but I went a bit crazy on them.... Anyway, I am worried that some people may now start using harder drugs just for that high and sometimes that can lead to addiction. Party pills while nasty things were keeping some younger people of "the harder stuff".

Interesting comments, I hear on the spin that some folk use them as an alternative to "hard" drugs, and if they are banned these folk will simply pick up where they used to be, I dont think that will happen, people will take what they will, when they will, illegal or not!


i have heard of these "party pills", but could someone please explain what they are/do please!


im not taking the piss here


Mate, I have friends that use them, been told by some that they give you the ability to stay up all night and have a really good time!..These people also tell of horrendous hangovers after.......mind you they are old like me :innocent:

I have friends that use them and apparently suffer no ill effects from taking them at all! They stay up all night too and have a really great time.

I personally have been known to stay up all night, have a really good time, and only consume a bit (ok a lot, you nit picky lot!) of alcohol, nothing else.

I am no prude/goody two shoes either, in my youth I have been known to partake in a bit of illegal drug use, and I personally have no issues with people that choose to do so now. Just not for me is all.

I can stay up late having a good time without using them. Ban them, dont ban them :whocares:

[Grahameeboy]

Geeze..what do want pills for when you have a motorbike and adrenelin is the most potent and free.........no hang overs, maybe sore wrists in the morning...

[scumdog]

I'm often aghast at how the same people who demand country-of-origin, percentage-of-daily-intake and E number labelling, the Heart Foundation tick, assurances that food is free of GM, hormones, antibiotics and that no animals were unnecessarily harmed in the production of a burger flipped lovingly by a multinational corporation are more than happy, nay delighted, to swallow products that contain fuck-knows-what and which were brewed in a Naenae garage by some illiterate hoodie who failed fourth form chemistry.

Party pills are evil on many scores. Their production and distribution is currently unregulated as they are neither a pharmaceutical nor a food product. If they were either of these, they would be banned on quality compliance and labelling issues alone.

But then I'm an old fart who has to ride a motorcycle for excitement. What the fuck would I know about these new-fangled cock-shrinking drugs?

Mr. H. is right.
The pills may well be made by Snuph Yu Inc in a garage in Petone out of substances stolen from a vets in Hamilton.

Quality control?? pahhh!
Licenced manufacturers?? pahh!!
Quality ingredients?? pahh!!

[marioc]

lol @ hangovers from party pills,what lightweights,hate to see them on the sauce then.
Total fuckin bs in my opinion.

[Madness]

swallow products that contain fuck-knows-what and which were brewed in a Naenae garage by some illiterate hoodie who failed fourth form chemistry.
Or Newlands, Whitby or Ngaio for that matter. Sorry, have to stand up for Naenae, it's in the blood.


What the fuck would I know about these new-fangled cock-shrinking drugs?
I've gotta get me some of those.


Nice post, Hitch. Made me laugh.

[Str8 Jacket]

Interesting comments, I hear on the spin that some folk use them as an alternative to "hard" drugs, and if they are banned these folk will simply pick up where they used to be, I dont think that will happen, people will take what they will, when they will, illegal or not!


I hope that you are right there. I think that they are horrible things and as others have pointed out, there pretty much toxic to your body. I still think though that people should be given the right to choose. Sometimes it seems that when some peoples choices are taken away from them they end up getting desperate and choose "the wrong" path....

[canarlee]

so basically they are a legal(ok wont be for long) "e" then, never have been my thing, i was just curious as to what they are tis all

[Str8 Jacket]

so basically they are a legal(ok wont be for long) "e" then, never have been my thing, i was just curious as to what they are tis all

Pretty much....

[Sparky Bills]

Good stuff!
My opinion, If you need pills to stay awake and have a good time, theres somthing very wrong with you.
Im 23 and can have an awsome time in town on a Saturday night without pills.

Plus the morning after and even the week after, you feel SOOOOOO crap its just not worth it.


BOO HOO i say.:whocares:

[Grahameeboy]

I hope that you are right there. I think that they are horrible things and as others have pointed out, there pretty much toxic to your body. I still think though that people should be given the right to choose. Sometimes it seems that when some peoples choices are taken away from them they end up getting desperate and choose "the wrong" path....

They would probably chose the wrong path anyway......

It is having choices that can be a bad thing......that produces illegal drugs which are harmful so to reverse things a bit, is it a bad thing that some choices are removed.

Bit like a motor on a sailing ship.....it is not essential, just a choice......

[phaedrus]

I vaguely remembered that they stopped using it as a drench for some reason. A quick google later and

"BZP was rejected as a cattle drench because it was considered too tough on the cattle"

do they not know, or simply not care?

[The Lone Rider]

Good riddance I say.

Now to fix the drinking culture in NZ. Asking a bit much I think.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'd like to request a big ol' glass of "who gives a shit"?

No really... a big glass.

You should give a shit, because it's simply another 'choice' we have had taken away. I've never tried 'legal highs'.....and from what I've read, BZP is nasty. BUT......is alcohol next? Shit, I bet there are more people in A&E each weekend due to the effects of alcohol.....but no...it's got it's roots firmly planted, and is considered socially acceptable. It's the individuals right to choose what they do and take. At least it should be.

[canarlee]

You should give a shit, because it's simply another 'choice' we have had taken away. I've never tried 'legal highs'.....and from what I've read, BZP is nasty. BUT......is alcohol next? Shit, I bet there are more people in A&E each weekend due to the effects of alcohol.....but no...it's got it's roots firmly planted, and is considered socially acceptable. It's the individuals right to choose what they do and take. At least it should be.

very wells said that man!!!


green stuff on its way to you! (bling that is)

[scrivy]

Maybe I should take paying passengers for high speed rides around racetracks on my sidecar. That always gets my adrenaline pumping. Who needs friggin drugs then?? It would cost them less than drugs, and not cause any hangovers the following day!!
I guess all the limp wristed fags that need to take drugs for a high couldn't handle a 'high' from octane anyway!!:yes:

[Disco Dan]

No really... a big glass.

To swallow your party pills with? :shutup:

Had them before.. great things - when you follow the directions on the pack. Which is why so many people get their stomachs pumped and spin out on them.... too thick and/or ignorant to read them. Eat enough sugar or red bull and you would spin out too.. i dont see the problem with them.

There will be more created to fill the market gap... not to mention the underground sales of them that will be of a lower quality and poor manufacturing.

Everything in moderation....:yes:

[scumdog]

not to mention the underground sales of them that will be of a lower quality and poor manufacturing.

Everything in moderation....:yes:

"Lower quality"? Mwahahahaha, ya need some quality of any sort to lower it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I guess all the limp wristed fags that need to take drugs for a high couldn't handle a 'high' from octane anyway!!:yes:

That's laughable mate. Do you drink alcohol? If so....you're a fag.

[Disco Dan]

"Lower quality"? Mwahahahaha, ya need some quality of any sort to lower it.

yeah instead of filling them out with pine tree sawdust, they will start using the mouldy stuff off the floors ;)

[What?]

Nice of the government to hand the gangs another income stream...

Exactly. The first outlawing of drugs was in 1922(?) by the US Feral Gummint, when they decided that making cocaine illegal would stamp out its use.
It didn't take long for them to realise that a huge mistake had been made, but it was still too late - all sorts of drugs were being banned all over the world, and the underworld had discovered a form of income that was much more lucrative than extortion rackets. And cocaine usage in the US had soared...
Banning drugs has never been demonstrated to reduce their use. In fact, the incidence of alcoholism in the US was at its worst during the prohibition years.
Best to legalise all drugs, then deal with the real problems, rather than outlaw them and create a whole raft of much bigger problems.

[jonbuoy]

i have heard of these "party pills", but could someone please explain what they are/do please!


im not taking the piss here

Instead of drinking till 1am and waking up at 11am with a hangover you can now drink till 6am and wake up at 4.30pm with a hangover - whoopee more money pissed up against the wall.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Exactly. The first outlawing of drugs was in 1922(?) by the US Feral Gummint, when they decided that making cocaine illegal would stamp out its use.
It didn't take long for them to realise that a huge mistake had been made, but it was still too late - all sorts of drugs were being banned all over the world, and the underworld had discovered a form of income that was much more lucrative than extortion rackets. And cocaine usage in the US had soared...
Banning drugs has never been demonstrated to reduce their use. In fact, the incidence of alcoholism in the US was at its worst during the prohibition years.
Best to legalise all drugs, then deal with the real problems, rather than outlaw them and create a whole raft of much bigger problems.

Funny how Amsterdam has so few drug problems. Yeah sure all the wasters go there to experience the 'scene'...and make the place look messy. But the locals couldn't give a toss, and most of them are really not that into it.
Because the 'taboo' attraction ain't there....

[canarlee]

Funny how Amsterdam has so few drug problems. Yeah sure all the wasters go there to experience the 'scene'...and make the place look messy. But the locals couldn't give a toss, and most of them are really not that into it.
Because the 'taboo' attraction ain't there....

um sorry mate but im gunna dissagree with you here, i have been to amsterdam many, many times (im a pom thats lived in spain for many years, its kind of on my way;)) i have many good friends who are dutch, and 98%percent of them smoke weed/take party pills/magic mushrooms(my favourite) just about every weekend. and these people are of all ages! they have a very, very low addiction problem there though. im talking heroin, crack ect!


soz thats just my tuppence worth

[Crasherfromwayback]

um sorry mate but im gunna dissagree with you here, i have been to amsterdam many, many times (im a pom thats lived in spain for many years, its kind of on my way;)) i have many good friends who are dutch, and 98%percent of them smoke weed/take party pills/magic mushrooms(my favourite) just about every weekend. and these people are of all ages! they have a very, very low addiction problem there though. im talking heroin, crack ect!


soz thats just my tuppence worth

And I take that on board. It may have something to do with the fact that you're a user of said drugs, that your friends happen to be users too.
And like I've said....all good, we should all have the right to choose. But the Dutch I know (and there's quite a few), don't use. But, unlike you, I've not spent time there, so you're better informed than I.

[canarlee]

mate, i only do mushrooms VERY occasionaly, its NOT a regular thing, party pills? never done them, not my thing. weed? yeah, but as many others here have said, far better for you than alchohol! but guess what? i drink more beer than i do the others so where does that leave me? lol

[Kickaha]

I guess all the limp wristed fags that need to take drugs for a high couldn't handle a 'high' from octane anyway!!:yes:

Dunno about that, you and Bob seem to be able to :bleh:


That's laughable mate. Do you drink alcohol? If so....you're a fag.

He doesn't so much drink as "guzzle"

Personally I don't see the point in pills or booze (although I'm sure I used to) , riding and racing does it for me!

[Grahameeboy]

mate, i only do mushrooms VERY occasionaly, its NOT a regular thing, party pills? never done them, not my thing. weed? yeah, but as many others here have said, far better for you than alchohol! but guess what? i drink more beer than i do the others so where does that leave me? lol

Remind me not to try your special coffee of the day WHEN your cafe is open:bye:

[Albino]

ALL of the arguments I have heard supporting the ban of party pills also apply to alcohol.

And in regards to the comments about quality control, these are much safer than illegal alternatives - and concerns about quality of ingredients could easily be addressed. I almost died a number of years ago when sold ecstacy that was actually laced with methamphetimine of which I am severely allergic. This wouldn't happen with something off the shelf.

I am an educated and sensible person. You may not believe that, and judge me because I've tried drugs in the past but that's your problem not mine. But half the allure for me was that doing so was a big fuck-you to societies rules.

You may not have any time for party pills and drugs, but believe me these days the chances are that your children will. So do you want to a) be an ostrich, or b) offer them the safest alternatives.

PS - I hate the bloody things. But I also hate offal.

[Krusti]

I vaguely remembered that they stopped using it as a drench for some reason. A quick google later and

"BZP was rejected as a cattle drench because it was considered too tough on the cattle"

do they not know, or simply not care?

BZP is crap, didn't get rid of my worms!

[Hitcher]

And in regards to the comments about quality control, these are much safer than illegal alternatives - and concerns about quality of ingredients could easily be addressed. I almost died a number of years ago when sold ecstacy that was actually laced with methamphetimine of which I am severely allergic. This wouldn't happen with something off the shelf.

I am an educated and sensible person.

Yet you are prepared to ingest materials that have no list of ingredients, schedule of approved ingredients or quality control systems used in their manufacture? Just because something is sold "off the shelf" is no guarantee. Just look at the recent anti-freeze toothpaste saga. Caveat emptor.

[Albino]

Yet you are prepared to ingest materials that have no list of ingredients, schedule of approved ingredients or quality control systems used in their manufacture? Just because something is sold "off the shelf" is no guarantee. Just look at the recent anti-freeze toothpaste saga. Caveat emptor.

Put an ingredients list on it, implement some regulation, problem solved.

Thousands of people take pills like ecstacy every weekend, god knows what half the pills contain. In the UK the estimates were that 5 million pills swallowed every weekend. Just because it's frowned upon, or illegal, doesn't mean it won't happen.

[SARGE]

Best to legalise all drugs, then deal with the real problems, rather than outlaw them and create a whole raft of much bigger problems.

better yet.. legalize everything, tax the shit out of them and come back in 5 years and clean up the mess.

those who are pissed off that the Gubmint has banned another plaything may or may not switch to harder shit .. who knows .. for those who the Party Pills were a passing fad and realize that they can have a good time without pills.. good for them..

those who go the OTHER way ..

here man .. have a handful..

Darwin will win..


lord knows i have abused my body over the past 40+ years with all manner of substances and experiences.. we had REAL LSD when i was coming up.. not this bullshit rat poison they are pushing these days.. we had Quaaludes, Red, Blues, Black Beauties, Valium, Moonshine, Homegrown, Hydroponic and Maui Wowee.. tried most of it .. and BANNING anything just helped the marketing with all the free publicity

cant be bothered nowdays for the most part (probably wouldnt turn down a toke if one was offered..)

[Goblin]

Just heard a bit on the news about this and police are saying they want to educate young people that ALL mind altering drugs are bad for you. Well wont that piss the pharmaceutical companies off! Yesterday I saw that pharmaceutical companies will have to disclose the free holidays, cars etc. that they offer to doctors who prescride their drugs. Maybe now people will realise that a lot of so called health "professionals" dont really give a rodents rectum about peoples health....they're only in it for the money and the perks the farmersuitical companies offer.
How many young people are prescribed fluox for depression when they are just going through puberty? My daughter has a friend who has been on this shit since she was 10...she's now 16. What sort of doctor puts a 10 year old on mind altering drugs? My grandmother was prescribed amitriptoline 30 odd years ago for incontinence and she's still takes them cos her doctor said so. 30 years of drug abuse! Doctors are the worst pushers of mind altering drugs because the general public have been taught that doctors are to be trusted.

I reckon banning party pills will only increase illegal drug use. I tried some on a couple of occasions and the high was no better than i would normaly get from being in good company and a few drinks. The next few days I was shitty as though. No great loss to me but I do worry what my kids will be experimenting with in the future.

[Hitcher]

If I thought for one moment that decriminalising a range of currently illegal mind-altering substances would have absolutely no impact whatsoever on me and mine (such as no impact to our taxes, or effects on/threats to our lives, liberty and pursuit of happiness), I would support such measures in a heartbeat. I see nobody prepared to provide me with any such ironclad guarantee, so my vote goes in favour of regulation and enforcement, including criminality for such products.

[Hitcher]

What sort of doctor puts a 10 year old on mind altering drugs?

What sort of parent takes their daughter to a doctor on the basis that their child has "symptoms" that require medical intervention? Is Ritalin merely a convenient excuse for poor parenting? Don't single out doctors here. As with most issues, the answer is rarely a simple one.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If I thought for one moment that decriminalising a range of currently illegal mind-altering substances would have absolutely no impact whatsoever on me and mine (such as no impact to our taxes, or effects on/threats to our lives, liberty and pursuit of happiness), I would support such measures in a heartbeat. I see nobody prepared to provide me with any such ironclad guarantee, so my vote goes in favour of regulation and enforcement, including criminality for such products.

Then you should suggest to the powers that be we outlaw all forms of motor vehicles too. I mean come on.....

[Hitcher]

Then you should suggest to the powers that be we outlaw all forms of motor vehicles too. I mean come on.....

Your example doesn't quite cover what I had in mind. To continue your analogy, I think that the people who favour decriminalisation/legalisation of currently banned or controlled substances are comparable to a body of opinion that says any motorised vehicle could be able to be ridden/driven anywhere at anytime by anybody (deregulation/decriminilisation) i.e. no warrants of fitness, rode code, police enforcement, criminal prosecution.

I would not support such an environment on the same basis as my lack of support to provide greater "freedoms" around mind-altering substances.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Your example doesn't quite cover what I had in mind. To continue your analogy, I think that the people who favour decriminalisation/legalisation of currently banned or controlled substances are comparable to a body of opinion that says any motorised vehicle could be able to be ridden/driven anywhere at anytime by anybody (deregulation/decriminilisation) i.e. no warrants of fitness, rode code, police enforcement, criminal prosecution.

I would not support such an environment on the same basis as my lack of support to provide greater "freedoms" around mind-altering substances.

I disagree. If you decriminalise these substances, you CAN control them. Just like we're supposed to be doing with Vehicles.

[Hitcher]

If you decriminalise these substances, you CAN control them. Just like we're supposed to be doing with Vehicles.

Please tell me more...

[Goblin]

What sort of parent takes their daughter to a doctor on the basis that their child has "symptoms" that require medical intervention? Is Ritalin merely a convenient excuse for poor parenting? Don't single out doctors here. As with most issues, the answer is rarely a simple one.The sort of parent who has been brainwashed to believe that doctors know everything and their pills will cure their child's problems, due to poor parenting. It's the doctors who are prescribing the pills, telling the parents the pills will help as their child is sick instead of finding the reason why the child is having problems. It's all about the money and the perks offered by farmersuitical co's. More people on prescription drugs=more perks for doctors.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Please tell me more...

Sure. If you take these substances off the shelf....you just know kids are still going to want to 'experiment'. Who will they have to deal with when these substances are banned? What will they have to do to get them...and what else will they be given? I don't have children, but if I did, I'd far rather they buy these things off the shelf, than god knows what from people I'd REALLY not want them to associate with. It will happen. The criminal fraternity will be rubbing their hands together with this news.

[N4CR]

in general alcohol causes more problems and more deaths than drugs in total numbers due to the large amount of people who consume it. in terms of per user (effects wise) it wouldn't be as bad as drugs however. we can't ban alcohol though as it's a great source of income. just like smoking which is even worse and has no positive effects for the user - pretty much all of the good ones can be obtained in other ways, apart from blowing smoke outta ya mouth.

i personally don't think party pills are that bad, i've used them a few times before while working in the hospitality industry, doing 12-14 hour shifts over night means you need them to keep going, moving crates of beer etc (or a ridiculous amount of red bull). they **** you over pretty bad for the next day doing that though. i don't use them recreationally.
in normal usage depending on what else you do you should be not too bad the next day, no worse than moderate alc consumption. first few times you try are the worst however.

i don't think they should ban these as everyone who uses them recreationally will just jump to e etc instead. horse tranq anyone? at least these have quality control.

good one govt. smart decision!

[oldrider]

Alternative policies on offer here!

www.libertarianz.org.nz

I do not belong, just know that their policies are opposite to Anderton's proposal!

If you are dissatisfied, have a read of what the Libertarians offer. :dodge: John.

[Hitcher]

Sure. If you take these substances off the shelf....you just know kids are still going to want to 'experiment'. Who will they have to deal with when these substances are banned? What will they have to do to get them...and what else will they be given? I don't have children, but if I did, I'd far rather they buy these things off the shelf, than god knows what from people I'd REALLY not want them to associate with. It will happen. The criminal fraternity will be rubbing their hands together with this news.

But "off the shelf" would require compliance with a bunch of standards and manufacture to rigourous standards using approved and regulated ingredients. Presumably Johnny from Johnsonville could still manufacture and distribute equivalent products made from christ-knows-what for a fraction of the cost of the "off-the-shelf" items. Johnny certainly wouldn't be paying any taxes! I suspect that the "criminal fraternity" wins either way.

And another issue is should we be encouraging kids to consume unproven and unregulated mind-altering substances? Sure, alcohol in excess has its problems, but at least society and medical practitioners know how to "manage" this. What's wrong with just sticking to the stuff we understand, rather than looking for increasingly exotic chemical pleasures?

[Swoop]

I vaguely remembered that they stopped using it as a drench for some reason. A quick google later and

"BZP was rejected as a cattle drench because it was considered too tough on the cattle"

do they not know, or simply not care?
They were just really pissed off with all the cows partying it up, in the back paddock, all hours of the day and night!

Quality control?? pahhh!
Licenced manufacturers?? pahh!!
Quality ingredients?? pahh!!
Sounds vaguely like a few of the takeaway outlets around town........
*meow*

[Crasherfromwayback]

But "off the shelf" would require compliance with a bunch of standards and manufacture to rigourous standards using approved and regulated ingredients. Presumably Johnny from Johnsonville could still manufacture and distribute equivalent products made from christ-knows-what for a fraction of the cost of the "off-the-shelf" items. Johnny certainly wouldn't be paying any taxes! I suspect that the "criminal fraternity" wins either way.

And another issue is should we be encouraging kids to consume unproven and unregulated mind-altering substances? Sure, alcohol in excess has its problems, but at least society and medical practitioners know how to "manage" this. What's wrong with just sticking to the stuff we understand, rather than looking for increasingly exotic chemical pleasures?

I know what you're saying Hitcher...but do we have such problems with Johnny from Johnsonville making his alcohol and selling it? No.

And I don't think that it means we're encouraging kids to experiment.....they're going to anyway (as kids do)...and making it taboo I think may even make it more atrractive.

[Deano]

Why the fuck would any one want to take BZP (cattle drench :gob: )


BZP is simply one component of cattle drench. But it's more dramatic the way you say it.

And to answer your question with a question - Why the fark would any one want to drink rocket fuel ? (alcohol)

If it's so easy to ban party pills, why are cigarettes still legal ?

[Sniper]

Good, about time these things were banned

[canarlee]

pretty simple to me really, we live in a free world(?), educate people and then let them make their own mind up.


thats just how i see it, as otherwise we should all be going back to walking, and no motor vehicles at all, no alchohol,smoking, no eating meat (humans teeth are made for eating vegetation not meat anyway, i mean a dogs teeth are generally pointed, designed for tearing meat, our teeth are not)ect ect, cant hurt ourselves or others that way can we?

not very well put i know, but i think you get what i mean
i dunno?

[NighthawkNZ]

BZP is simply one component of cattle drench. But it's more dramatic the way you say it.

And to answer your question with a question - Why the fark would any one want to drink rocket fuel ? (alcohol)

If it's so easy to ban party pills, why are cigarettes still legal ?

I personally don't care what people do and or take to tell the honest truth... free will and choice and all that... :)

[Chrislost]

thems nasty things!
make you thirsty and running arund drinking water(or beer)
bad if u drink beer because then you get drunk
and then when you should be going to sleep and sleeping it off you cant sleep
so your spinning around and around.
and then you get to sleep at about lunchtime and wake up a hour later.
and then about 3 days later you start eating again.

[bungbung]

"Dry old conversation Florence"

The new Steinlager 'Pure' isn't as good as the regular kind, but any port in a storm.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The new Steinlager 'Pure' isn't as good as the regular kind, but any port in a storm.

Correct. Nothing can beat the true Steinlager.

[inlinefour]

Aarg!
I use them and I like them.
Totally legal in shops now, selling BZP will be punishable by EIGHT YEARS IN JAIL when it becomes illegal. It'll be a class C1 drug.

A glass of Nanny-State, anyone?

I'm all for them becoming illegal based on my 4+ years of working in an inpatient psychiatric ward as a registered nurse. Have seen some ugly shit as a result of these pills. I undersrtand that you like them, however there are plenty out there who like other drugs that also cause havoc. Why should these party pills be treated any differently?

[Chrislost]

Yet you are prepared to ingest materials that have no list of ingredients, schedule of approved ingredients or quality control systems used in their manufacture? Just because something is sold "off the shelf" is no guarantee. Just look at the recent anti-freeze toothpaste saga. Caveat emptor.

yeah but that shit was made in china.
everyone knows that stuff form theres crap!

[inlinefour]

I know what you're saying Hitcher...but do we have such problems with Johnny from Johnsonville making his alcohol and selling it? No.

I've heard of alot of people who are selling home brewed spirits for commercial use getting busted big time. I suspect that Johnny from Johnsonville wold only get away with it for awhile and then it would all turn to shyte for him once a particular bunch of people come knocking on the door...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm all for them becoming illegal based on my 4+ years of working in an inpatient psychiatric ward as a registered nurse. Have seen some ugly shit as a result of these pills. I undersrtand that you like them, however there are plenty out there who like other drugs that also cause havoc. Why should these party pills be treated any differently?

Mate....if you think red repping me is a slap on the wrist for my thoughts, so be it. But you saying (in my rep area) if they ban them then the children won't be able to get them tells me how simple you really are.

Do you seriously think the children won't get other substances from people far worse to deal with than places like the local dairy?

Good one.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've heard of alot of people who are selling home brewed spirits for commercial use getting busted big time. I suspect that Johnny from Johnsonville wold only get away with it for awhile and then it would all turn to shyte for him once a particular bunch of people come knocking on the door...

Sure you have mate. We all read about it every day in the papers. Not.

[inlinefour]

Sure you have mate. We all read about it every day in the papers. Not.

I guess that makes you a self confessed expert in the field? Just because you jack shyte, does not mean the rest of us know just as little. I know a few personally who have been done for making large quantities of spirits and then onselling them. Its not the sort of thing to generally make the papers either and if you believe only what the media says, then you must have a warped inaccurate take on life lad...

[inlinefour]

Mate....if you think red repping me is a slap on the wrist for my thoughts, so be it. But you saying (in my rep area) if they ban them then the children won't be able to get them tells me how simple you really are.

Do you seriously think the children won't get other substances from people far worse to deal with than places like the local dairy?

Good one.

Once again you show your expertiese? If they are not coming into the country then the kids cannot get them can they? Yea there will allways be arsewipes who make shyte in their own time to make money, but thats nothing new. Simple eh, ask anyone who knows me well, they'll will laugh at that comment and I'm not too perturbed. All I see is one very upset boy throwing his toys out of the cot because Aunty Helen and her brigade has taken your favourite lollies away. :whocares:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I guess that makes you a self confessed expert in the field? Just because you jack shyte, does not mean the rest of us know just as little. I know a few personally who have been done for making large quantities of spirits and then onselling them. Its not the sort of thing to generally make the papers either and if you believe only what the media says, then you must have a warped inaccurate take on life lad...

I'm an expert on everything. My forte is spotting spinners. And Jack Shyte? I don't know him sorry mate.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. Simple eh, ask anyone who knows me well, they'll will laugh at that comment and I'm not too perturbed. All I see is one very upset boy throwing his toys out of the cot because Aunty Helen and her brigade has taken your favourite lollies away. :whocares:

Sure mate....and likewise, ask anyone that knows me, and they'll tell you I've never in my life had said lollies. I think red repping someone shows just who's throwing the toys.

[inlinefour]

Sure mate....and likewise, ask anyone that knows me, and they'll tell you I've never in my life had said lollies. I think red repping someone shows just who's throwing the toys.

So your just getting upset over getting red rep, oh dear, how sad, never mind...:whocares:


I'm an expert on everything. My forte is spotting spinners. And Jack Shyte? I don't know him sorry mate.

LOL, not sure if I know them but have met some of their close relatives.

[scumdog]

Mate....if you think red repping me is a slap on the wrist for my thoughts, so be it. But you saying (in my rep area) if they ban them then the children won't be able to get them tells me how simple you really are.

Do you seriously think the children won't get other substances from people far worse to deal with than places like the local dairy?

Good one.

So where did all the kids get party pills from BEFORE they were openly for sale in the shops??????????

And did these same kids use 'other substances' if/when they couldn't get their party pills???

Curious to know your answers...seeing as how you're a self-proclaimed expert an' all..

[rideNroot]

When will the fucking idiots that run our country realise that prohibition is not, and has never been the way to go.

What happens when they ban something that people want? They push it underground.
They lose out on tax that could be used for education about the drug and they lose control over quality and additives. Why are they so fucking stupid to think that banning it will make it go away?

Instead of having a huge amount of control over BZP, they would prefer to have absolutely none, and let gangs and shady characters profit of its sales instead.

Fuckstains like Jim Anderton who crusade around New Zealand stating that puffing on a little weed means you need medical and psychiatric help? Because his daughter killed herself means that the rest of New Zealands youth should never have the right to made their own decisions. Next he will want to ban panadol from the supermarket shelves.

One of his conditions in forming a coalition government was that there would be no law reform in regards to cannabis while he was supporting labour, so as long as shitbuckets like him are around, the government will continue to take the stance of "BAN BAN BAN!", instead of educating people about what they are doing while controlling quality, quantity and who can sell what.

Phew, that just kinda fell out.. lucky this forum is called rant and rave

[edit] guess I should add that I have only ever had party pills once many years ago, and never felt the urge to have them again

[Pixie]

Yep, Jims my hero! Next it'll be alcohol, then ciggies..... Oh hang, they make too much money out of those.... Is no one allowed to make their own decisions anymore?

Drugs are bad.
Millions of Kiwis and cattle have died of BZP and no one has ever died of alcohol and tobacco :nono:

[Pixie]

Why the fuck would any one want to take BZP (cattle drench :gob: )

must have been some farmer up north and decided mmmmm cattle drench

It's good to see you are a good compliant government drone and believe all the spin you're fed.

Why the fuck would any one want to take aspirin (tree bark)

Why the fuck would any one want to take Taxol (tree bark)

Why the fuck would any one want to take penicillin ( mold)

Why the fuck would any one want to take sulfa drugs ( industrial dyes)

Why the fuck would any one want to take nitroglycerine (high explosive)

But I guess if you were prescribed any of these, or a multitude of other drugs,you wouldn't care where they originated

[Crasherfromwayback]

So where did all the kids get party pills from BEFORE they were openly for sale in the shops??????????

And did these same kids use 'other substances' if/when they couldn't get their party pills???

Curious to know your answers...seeing as how you're a self-proclaimed expert an' all..

Actually SD, I was simply rarking up ILF when saying I'm an 'Expert' on everything. But seeing as you and I had a disagreement the other week, I guess you now want to simply say black whenever I say white yeah?

Kids over the years have always wanted to 'experiment'. I wouldn't mind betting you've at some stage tried tobacco? Maybe as a kid? Alcohol? A bit of weed?

My cousin died two years ago 'huffing' butane. Some sniff glue...petrol....there's mushrooms.....Datura....cactus. It's been going on for ever mate. People will always want to find ways to get 'high'.

The thing is....we didn't have the full on dance rave scene when we were young, like they do now. Kids want to stay up for 2-3 days going hard out.

With that scene....comes (not to every kid obviously) the temptation to have chemical help, both to 'enhance' the buzz...and to prolong it. Over the counter 'highs' have made it cheaper...and for sure, easier to get. While that may have a negative in that more people (and that's yet to be proven) try said 'highs', I seriously believe it's better they do so with these pills than seek the 'real things' off people that are parasites. Dangerous parasites. The 'highs' they peddle....have far more serious ramifications than the ones they're banning. In my opinion.
None of said 'party pills' are mentally or physically addictive. Some of the 'replacement' ones are.

So now I'd like you to tell me in your opinion, just what these kids are going to do when they can't get their 'highs' over the counter.


When will the fucking idiots that run our country realise that prohibition is not, and has never been the way to go.

What happens when they ban something that people want? They push it underground.
They lose out on tax that could be used for education about the drug and they lose control over quality and additives. Why are they so fucking stupid to think that banning it will make it go away?

Instead of having a huge amount of control over BZP, they would prefer to have absolutely none, and let gangs and shady characters profit of its sales instead.

Fuckstains like Jim Anderton who crusade around New Zealand stating that puffing on a little weed means you need medical and psychiatric help? Because his daughter killed herself means that the rest of New Zealands youth should never have the right to made their own decisions. Next he will want to ban panadol from the supermarket shelves.

One of his conditions in forming a coalition government was that there would be no law reform in regards to cannabis while he was supporting labour, so as long as shitbuckets like him are around, the government will continue to take the stance of "BAN BAN BAN!", instead of educating people about what they are doing while controlling quality, quantity and who can sell what.

Phew, that just kinda fell out.. lucky this forum is called rant and rave

[edit] guess I should add that I have only ever had party pills once many years ago, and never felt the urge to have them again

Aye.

[Drew]

Actually SD, I was simply rarking up ILF when saying I'm an 'Expert' on everything. But seeing as you and I had a disagreement the other week, I guess you now want to simply say black whenever I say white yeah?

Kids over the years have always wanted to 'experiment'. I wouldn't mind betting you've at some stage tried tobacco? Maybe as a kid? Alcohol? A bit of weed?

My cousin died two years ago 'huffing' butane. Some sniff glue...petrol....there's mushrooms.....Datura....cactus. It's been going on for ever mate. People will always want to find ways to get 'high'.

The thing is....we didn't have the full on dance rave scene when we were young, like they do now. Kids want to stay up for 2-3 days going hard out.

With that scene....comes (not to every kid obviously) the temptation to have chemical help, both to 'enhance' the buzz...and to prolong it. Over the counter 'highs' have made it cheaper...and for sure, easier to get. While that may have a negative in that more people (and that's yet to be proven) try said 'highs', I seriously believe it's better they do so with these pills than seek the 'real things' off people that are parasites. Dangerous parasites. The 'highs' they peddle....have far more serious ramifications than the ones they're banning. In my opinion.
None of said 'party pills' are mentally or physically addictive. Some of the 'replacement' ones are.

So now I'd like you to tell me in your opinion, just what these kids are going to do when they can't get their 'highs' over the counter.



Aye.

Well said bro, this stuff is always gonna be available to people, so let's try to keep it from more reputable sources, than the likes of your local "tinny House".

[scumdog]

Actually SD, I was simply rarking up ILF when saying I'm an 'Expert' on everything. But seeing as you and I had a disagreement the other week, I guess you now want to simply say black whenever I say white yeah?


None of said 'party pills' are mentally or physically addictive. Some of the 'replacement' ones are.

So now I'd like you to tell me in your opinion, just what these kids are going to do when they can't get their 'highs' over the counter.

Actually CFWB, I never even remembered this 'disagreement' we had the other week, sorry. (Shows how vindictive I really am!)

Party pills can be psychologically addictive BTW

And what do they do when they can't by their 'high' over the counter? Do what they did before -go without. After all, you don't think they gave up another drug to go to the party pills do you??

[Crasherfromwayback]

Party pills can be psychologically addictive BTW

And what do they do when they can't by their 'high' over the counter? Do what they did before -go without. After all, you don't think they gave up another drug to go to the party pills do you??

I'd be interested to read any paper by an expert on drug addiction to back your claim up SD.

And here's a high I know for a fact you enjoy...motorcycles. If the powers that be said you're not allowed to ride your bike anymore, would it stop you?

Before bikes, I'm sure you got your jollies other ways. Firearms? Skiing? Sky diving? I dunno...any number of things. Simply because you don't understand why kids (or anyone for that matter) would want to risk possibly doing harm to themselves by taking these substances isn't a good enough reason to take that choice away.

People will always do things that could end in tears, and they always will.

Drugs, whether they be legal (tabacco, alcohol) or illegal, will always have their victims (as do motorcycles, skiing, sky diving etc), people with addictive personalities will always find a way to fuck themselves up.

People harm themselves with razor blades. I don't see the government banning them. In fact, those that buy razor blades pay GST. This in turn helps prop up the health system and everything else.

Is it not better to have those that use drugs do likewise?

[Mystery]

I have watched in utter amazement, a teenage guest, at a New Years party my son had here, who almost had lockjaw because he had exceeded the recommended dose of his Party Pills his face was kinda stuck in grimace mode. I have also watched my son polishing the crap out of his car at 7am on a Sunday morning, then sleeping until dinnertime (What a waste) and have often wondered what the attraction is with these "Part Pills".

I am fortunate enough to have very open and trusting relationships with my 3 teenage sons (16,18,19) and 21 year old daughter. There is nothing that we have a problem discussing (I was a teenager once and can remember what it was like) and I would never judge them or refuse to help them if they had a problem. I was discussing the contents (BZP?) of these party pills with my 19 year old son who, along with his friends take these things when they go out to dance parties etc. He was surprised to learn they contained things like cattle drench :gob:. It didnt bother him that they could be made illegal.

Will it put him off them, probably! Will he try P or something stronger instead? I doubt it very much. The youth of today are not completely stupid and I have a lot of faith in them. I dont think that banning these things will make them turn to harder drugs. Alcoholics maybe, but P users No!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I dont think that banning these things will make them turn to harder drugs. Alcoholics maybe, but P users No!

Oh shit! That's ok then. Alcoholics are so much better.

[Zapf]

Party pills can be psychologically addictive BTW

And what do they do when they can't by their 'high' over the counter? Do what they did before -go without. After all, you don't think they gave up another drug to go to the party pills do you??

Party pills can be psychologically addictive, yes but so can many other things. KFC / Cola / Computer games. And computer games probly waste more time and $ in the world than all the drugs add together.

Funny enough I know people who have gave up other drugs to do party pills. Its an alternative the way they see it.

[avgas]

At least we still have our books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zapf]

I dont think that banning these things will make them turn to harder drugs. Alcoholics maybe, but P users No!

True, but the next legal replacement might actually be worse than the one it replaced.

these BZP based pills are actually worse than the real deal in many ways.

[Zapf]

Well said bro, this stuff is always gonna be available to people, so let's try to keep it from more reputable sources, than the likes of your local "tinny House".

did you remember a while back with all the cases of successful business mans and realestate developers getting busted for importing estacy? Reputable? sometimes the worse ones are the ones looking the cleanest.

[Mystery]

Oh shit! That's ok then. Alcoholics are so much better. That kinda came out wrong! It seems that some teenagers need some sort of artificial high to enjoy life and enhance their self confidence! I believe most wouldnt move to stronger drugs but will stick with alcohol because it will be the only legal drug of choice. Definitely not a good option but unfortunately the only legal one left!

[rideNroot]

Party pills can be psychologically addictive BTW


So can be smearing shit over your face.. anything can be depending on the person. Some people are just born addicts, and that will never change.

Why would they go without when they can just get it from their mates? Who have purchased it from black power / mongrel mob / whoever, and maybe added a little horse tranquilizer for added kick or add up the weight...

[scumdog]

Ah well, after reading all of the above it seems like those Health Department approved, high quality, ingredient specific Party-Pills are ok then?

And I guess if they aren't at least it's not my funeral.

You chose, you lose - not my problem.

[Grahameeboy]

Choices.........according to many we don't have this luxury anymore!!.....now what shall I do today.......I think I will chose to wake up, go to work, have fun, leave at 4, go to the Gym, go out for the evening.........not a party pill in sight or a Govt. Referee telling me I cannot do that........is life that simple, surely not.....he he

[Albino]

Alcohol is more far addictive than party pills. Tobacco is exponentially more so.

And from personal experience I am sure that many people have used party pills as a substitute for illegal drugs.

Take a trip over to the UK and hang out with some kiwis and aussies on their OE. Check out the drug culture, where an ecstacy tablet costs around £2, speed is around £5-10 per gram, and a gram of cocain has dropped to around £40. Every weekend 5 million ecstacy tablets are consumed (how many of these contain pure ecstacy or MDMA is anyones guess) at dance parties, clubs and bars. Our kids - especially the educated ones with money to burn - are going hard over there.

So, when they come back home to boring old NZ, do they a) try to import some of this stuff - think of the profit!, b) try to buy it from some one else, or c) use the legal stuff which isn't quite so good, get bored with it and move on in life.

Despite your opinions on whether people should take drugs, it does happen. IMHO c is the surely the better option......?

[kro]

You may not have any time for party pills and drugs, but believe me these days the chances are that your children will. So do you want to a) be an ostrich, or b) offer them the safest alternatives.

I will go one better, and provide them a stress free home life, active hobbies, and past times, spend a truck load of time with them, and make the whole "pill scene" seem like a waste of time and money. There are are chances my kids might go there, but sure as hell I can minimise that chance ever getting in their face by educating them early.
If they never try the damn things, then "freedom of choice" is irrelevant to them, because there's nothing to miss.

[scumdog]

I will go one better, and provide them a stress free home life, active hobbies, and past times, spend a truck load of time with them, and make the whole "pill scene" seem like a waste of time and money. There are are chances my kids might go there, but sure as hell I can minimise that chance ever getting in their face by educating them early.
If they never try the damn things, then "freedom of choice" is irrelevant to them, because there's nothing to miss.

I'm with this mans ideas - it worked OK for me and my boys.:yes:

Most of the ones that REGULARLY use party-pills around here seem to have 'something' wrong with them.

[Albino]

I will go one better, and provide them a stress free home life, active hobbies, and past times, spend a truck load of time with them, and make the whole "pill scene" seem like a waste of time and money. There are are chances my kids might go there, but sure as hell I can minimise that chance ever getting in their face by educating them early.
If they never try the damn things, then "freedom of choice" is irrelevant to them, because there's nothing to miss.
That's the ostrich bit I was talking about.

I had all that, as did most of my friends. I was seriously anti-drugs, cigarettes etc until I went traveling and decided that I wanted to make up my own mind about things instead of living my life by my parents attitudes.

If your kids go to live in the UK, I'd say the odds are near 50% that cocaine will go up their nose at some point. They won't tell you that though, because they know how you feel about it. And you won't know they've done it because they will come home healthy, happy and normal - not like a deranged addict that you'd expect.

[betti]

cool debate peeps, it's good to see that this sort of issue stirs up a fair amount of passion, can only be a good thing!.
There seems to be a distinct lack of that in the Uk (seeing as there seems to be comparisons being drawn up) it is almost as though so many laws and new pieces of legislation have been introduced over there recently that joe public has o.d.'ed on it, and now simply says whatever?!.
Mission accomplished for the government, spirit broken, introduce whatever ya like!.
Here's hopin Nz doesn't roll over like Uk has!.

[Zapf]

That's the ostrich bit I was talking about.

I had all that, as did most of my friends. I was seriously anti-drugs, cigarettes etc until I went traveling and decided that I wanted to make up my own mind about things instead of living my life by my parents attitudes.

If your kids go to live in the UK, I'd say the odds are near 50% that cocaine will go up their nose at some point. They won't tell you that though, because they know how you feel about it. And you won't know they've done it because they will come home healthy, happy and normal - not like a deranged addict that you'd expect.

Its true, until you are allow to make up your own mind about things then you are truely free to decide. And not having to see things as defined by what is acceptable by the media or government with rules made by people who have no understanding on subject.

"And you won't know they've done it because they will come home healthy, happy and normal - not like a deranged addict that you'd expect." completely true.

Also, unknown to most. You'll find that a lot of the people in the scene are people that you thought are upstanding / successful people. Preception is far from the truth.

[Wolf]

So what? If you need pills to help you party, you shouldn't fucking be partying.

Seriously.

Don't mind a wee drink or three, but honestly, if you're such a lamer you need drugs to become the life of the party or go the distance, then stay the fuck home and do us all a favour.

Leave the partying to those of us to whom it comes natuarlly.

[rideNroot]

Well Wolf, you are about 25 years older than the people taking these pills. Do you consider yourself to be a 'lamer' when you have a drink or three?

[inlinefour]

Well Wolf, you are about 25 years older than the people taking these pills. Do you consider yourself to be a 'lamer' when you have a drink or three?

You younger people truely show your ignorance if you think the drugs of past years are any lamer than whats on offer now or if you think the drugs now are any less dangerous than the ones then. The drugs are dangerous and no matter how many of you retards biarch about them, that will never change. Try working in the lock up part of an inpatient psychiatric ward for 4 years and you will realise that I'm not full o shyte as you retards would like to think. Don't get pissy if you dont like our opinion. We are quite happy to read some retard's opinion, which would just look like it was based on opinion and own beliefs. Some of us base our opinions on life experiences, knowledge and common sense. However looking at some of the posts on this thread, thats not very common...:shit:

[janno]

Hey IL4, I've heard that sometimes drugs can set off an episode of schizophrenia or other psychosis in an otherwise healthy person with no mental health history.

And then they've got the illness, it's permanent damage. Supposedly if they hadn't taken the drug(s), the illness might have remained dormant. Is this true?

[Wolf]

Well Wolf, you are about 25 years older than the people taking these pills. Do you consider yourself to be a 'lamer' when you have a drink or three?
I don't need to drink or get drunk to get into the mood for, or last through, a party - in fact, drinkng too much inhibits partying as crawling around a person's garden and vomiting on every second plant puts a definite crimp in party mode. I usually have a few alcoholic drinks spread over a lengthy time so I don't get drunk, the rest of the time its non-alcoholic beverages and coffee - so I'm straight enough to enjoy the party and don't wind up crawling off to be sick or to go to sleep.

I've danced, laughed and sung the whole night away with nothing more than cigarettes, coffee and the usual junkfood as refreshments - and had a hell of a good time.

I've also made a few collossal fuck-ups on the consumption of various alcoholic beverages and rendered myself out of action early in the night (as the reference to "applying liquid fertiliser" to gardens might suggest).

As you said - I'm 25 years older than these guys taking the pills - and it sounds to me they are saying they need to take a pill to do what I can with achieve with good sounds, great company and my own natural mood and energy. Take their drugs off them and you have a bunch of young squares who can't last the distance of a 43-year-old.

Never stayed long at any party that was so shitty you have to get wasted or high to enjoy it, either - that sort of party is a cue to fuck off and find real fun elsewhere. And I have, on a few (thankfully rare) occasions.

My friends and I have staggered, giggling hysterically and almost incapable of standing up, down the main street of Hamilton in the wee hours of the morning, acting in a manner that an uncle who observed us took to be extreme intoxication.

We had injested nothing stronger than coffee and soda in the previous 72 hours. But fuck it, we were having FUN! And life was good, we were out and enjoying ourselves.

I will concede that we were probably as high as kites on our bodies' own chemical cocktails, brought about by a few hours of joking, laugh and random teen-age silliness, so I wouldn't deem us to be entirely free of chemical stimulation...

[doc]

You younger people truely show your ignorance if you think the drugs of past years are any lamer than whats on offer now or if you think the drugs now are any less dangerous than the ones then. The drugs are dangerous and no matter how many of you retards biarch about them, that will never change. Try working in the lock up part of an inpatient psychiatric ward for 4 years and you will realise that I'm not full o shyte as you retards would like to think. Don't get pissy if you dont like our opinion. We are quite happy to read some retard's opinion, which would just look like it was based on opinion and own beliefs. Some of us base our opinions on life experiences, knowledge and common sense. However looking at some of the posts on this thread, thats not very common...:shit:

Don't waste your breath INL4. You are trying to argue with the offspring of those that used the drugs of the past, and probably used them in the first trimester of their pregnancy. They are damaged good's but it's OK us clean ones will pick up the pieces thru our taxes.

[slowpoke]

Funny how generations come through and think they've discovered something previous generations have never experienced or won't understand. No one person has been everwhere and done everything...except maybe Keith Richards...but most people who have "been around a bit" have seen something similar and learnt, often through bitter experience, how to treat certain situations.

OK, lets use a motorcycling analogy:
Say, this BZP is some new fangled improvement being bolted to motorcycles
and is supposed to make your bike go faster and further than ever before.
- The young "L" platers are saying this stuff is amazing, they can't imagine life without it. They can't explain it to the older more experienced riders 'cos it's so new they'll "never understand" and they've never seen anything like it.
- The older riders who have been around the block a few times are saying hang on a minute, this stuff has zero quality control, what happens if something goes wrong? They may not have seen exactly this product but they've seen anti-dive, turbocharging, rotary dampers, mechanical fuel injection and lots of other gimmicks flameout. They say forget the bolt on stuff that is potentially unreliable, if you are a half decent rider you don't need it.

Now if it was really about motorcycle shit then the now generation would probably listen to yesterdays heroes 'cos there's no fashion, ego's or peer pressure involved.

Unfortunately it's about something more important than motorcycling and the wiser heads are being ignored.

[doc]

Funny how generations come through and think they've discovered something previous generations have never experienced or won't understand. No one person has been everwhere and done everything...except maybe Keith Richards...but most people who have "been around a bit" have seen something similar and learnt, often through bitter experience, how to treat certain situations.

OK, lets use a motorcycling analogy:
Say, this BZP is some new fangled improvement being bolted to motorcycles
and is supposed to make your bike go faster and further than ever before.
- The young "L" platers are saying this stuff is amazing, they can't imagine life without it. They can't explain it to the older more experienced riders 'cos it's so new they'll "never understand" and they've never seen anything like it.
- The older riders who have been around the block a few times are saying hang on a minute, this stuff has zero quality control, what happens if something goes wrong? They may not have seen exactly this product but they've seen anti-dive, turbocharging, rotary dampers, mechanical fuel injection and lots of other gimmicks flameout. They say forget the bolt on stuff that is potentially unreliable, if you are a half decent rider you don't need it.

Now if it was really about motorcycle shit then the now generation would probably listen to yesterdays heroes 'cos there's no fashion, ego's or peer pressure involved.

Unfortunately it's about something more important than motorcycling and the wiser heads are being ignored.You mean sort of like we use to ride without helmets and thought it was exhilarating. But that was another of our freedoms that was stomped on. Yeah it was great until the bad one. Not many people even using open face helmets anymore. Except "Hog" club.

[eHonda]

Ok wolf, you like to drink coffee to stay awake. Did you know coffee is a narcotic beverage and caffeine belongs to the same alkaloid group of chemicals as morphine, cocaine and strychnine and is addictive.

Adverse effects of coffee include insomnia and disruption of sleep patterns; tremors, nervousness, restlessness, and irritability; headaches; elevation of blood fatty acid levels; elevation of blood pressure and/or serum cholesterol levels; irregular heartbeats and palpitations, and increased risk of cardiac arrhythmia and heart attack; increased gastric acid production & aggravation of peptic ulcers; increased heartburn; increased symptoms of PMS; increased risk of bladder and rectal cancer; higher risk of the birth of a low-birth-weight child; and increased urinary calcium losses.

It may alarm you that this drug is freely available at every dairy and supermarket, for next to no cost! Surely we should ban this psychoactive drug ?

My point is that drinking coffee has its health risks, be they large or small, same as most other activities people do for recreation (like riding bikes).

Just because your recreational drug of choice (coffee alcohol or nicotine) isnt BZP doesnt mean others should have to live by your code.

Legal products being sold in shops can be regulated so that consumers know what they are buying, and kids cant get hold of it. The consumers can also be educated on the potential risks and side effects of the product. Then people can make educated decisions on how they want to live their lives. To me this sounds better than paying to put people in jail cos they got caught with BZP.

[scumdog]

Ok wolf, you like to drink coffee to stay awake. Did you know coffee is a narcotic beverage and caffeine belongs to the same alkaloid group of chemicals as morphine, cocaine and strychnine and is addictive.

Adverse effects of coffee include insomnia and disruption of sleep patterns; tremors, nervousness, restlessness, and irritability; headaches; elevation of blood fatty acid levels; elevation of blood pressure and/or serum cholesterol levels; irregular heartbeats and palpitations, and increased risk of cardiac arrhythmia and heart attack; increased gastric acid production & aggravation of peptic ulcers; increased heartburn; increased symptoms of PMS; increased risk of bladder and rectal cancer; higher risk of the birth of a low-birth-weight child; and increased urinary calcium losses.

It may alarm you that this drug is freely available at every dairy and supermarket, for next to no cost! Surely we should ban this psychoactive drug ?

To me this sounds better than paying to put people in jail cos they got caught with BZP.

Yeah, and I'll whistle Dixie out my arse the first time I see the ambo crew carting off somebody that's bought coffee of unknown quality and O.D'd on it too....

[scumdog]

You mean sort of like we use to ride without helmets and thought it was exhilarating. But that was another of our freedoms that was stomped on. Yeah it was great until the bad one. Not many people even using open face helmets anymore. Except "Hog" club.

Had open face helmets before I HAD a Hog

Use full-face helmet about two- three times a year when the weather is REALLY shitty.

Anyway, that's off topic eh!

[Storm]

Unfortunately it's about something more important than motorcycling and the wiser heads are being ignored.

Ah, finally, we get to the real point of the matter-its all about the IMAGE folks, and the opinions


Yeah, and I'll whistle Dixie out my arse the first time I see the ambo crew carting off somebody that's bought coffee of unknown quality and O.D'd on it too....

And on that , good sir, you could rest a case with the greatest of confidence

[Wolf]

Ok wolf, you like to drink coffee to stay awake.
No, I like to drink coffee because i like the taste - coffee does not keep me awake unless consumed in sufficient quantities to keep me running to the toilet all night, and in taht area, water would do almost as well (but not quite - you left out the diuretic qualities of caffeine)


Did you know coffee is a narcotic beverage and caffeine belongs to the same alkaloid group of chemicals as morphine, cocaine and strychnine and is addictive.
Actually, I am quite intimately aware of caffeine's qualities, properties, addictiveness levels etc - likewise alcohol and nicotine as I have made it a point to study such things.

It's not like I looked at a fancy label saying "party all nite long" and thought "fuck, yeah!"

I can even tell you the relative strengths of various caffeinated beverages if you'd like and explain the mechanism by which caffeine keeps people awake.

Would you like a treatise on the addictive stages and "normalisation" with that?


Adverse effects of coffee include... increased symptoms of PMS
Shit, no wonder I'm always so bitchy...


It may alarm you that this drug is freely available at every dairy and supermarket, for next to no cost!
I'd be even more alarmed if it weren't...

I think Scumdog's reply sums it all up, though.

Are you aware of the world number of caffeine-related overdoses resulting in death and it's toxicity level?

I am.

[Zapf]

Yeah, and I'll whistle Dixie out my arse the first time I see the ambo crew carting off somebody that's bought coffee of unknown quality and O.D'd on it too....

well that would be a function of how much they take.

Ever tried drinking 4 cans on V and 4 cans of redbull in one sitting? Its not recommended but effects would be similar to some of the classed drugs.

[Steam]

Ever tried drinking 4 cans on V and 4 cans of redbull in one sitting? Its not recommended but effects would be similar to some of the classed drugs.
I'm gunna try it! I am NOT going to ride the same day though. Two cans of V are enough to get my house cleaned and vacuumed, the dishes done, the bike cleaned, and the lawns mown. I am very sensitive to caffeine.

[eHonda]

"Actually, I am quite intimately aware of caffeine's qualities, properties, addictiveness levels etc - likewise alcohol and nicotine as I have made it a point to study such things."

Thats good, and you still choose to use them on your own free will, whats the difference from BZP users doing the same?

" It's not like I looked at a fancy label saying "party all nite long" and thought "fuck, yeah!" "

Like people dont watch beer ads and think fuck yeah drink tui be cool, funny ,in with the hot girls etc? Im sure lots of them havent looked into what beer does to the body. If BZP was regulated so that warning labels were put on it, then it could be up to the user to read the label.


"I think Scumdog's reply sums it all up, though."

Yeah well ive seen some pretty horiffic things that motorcycles have done to people, ban them and then people will be safer..... its all relative.
Its not what the pills have done, its what the people have done to themselves with the pills. OD on sleeping pills and you die as well.

[scumdog]

well that would be a function of how much they take.

Ever tried drinking 4 cans on V and 4 cans of redbull in one sitting? Its not recommended but effects would be similar to some of the classed drugs.

Never tried it - a can of V a year is all I've ever drunk, they taste cruddy and do nothing for me -at that price they're waaay over-rated.

But I have seen young ones quaffing back cans of V to wash down their party-pills and then get on with their 440ml cans of Woodstock.

[Wolf]

well that would be a function of how much they take.

Ever tried drinking 4 cans on V and 4 cans of redbull in one sitting? Its not recommended but effects would be similar to some of the classed drugs.
It would take a hell of a lot more than 4 cans of V to OD a person on caffeine - talking in terms of serious repercussions or death, not merely feeling so wired you can pick up FM radio in your head.

Hyperventilating furiously for about two minutes can also have effects similar to the classed drugs and I understand from talking with an ex-junkie that spiking marmite also gets you pretty high (his theory was that the brain reacts quite strongly to concentrations of foreign molecules, no matter what they are).

[scumdog]

"
"I think Scumdog's reply sums it all up, though."

Yeah well ive seen some pretty horiffic things that motorcycles have done to people, ban them and then people will be safer..... its all relative.
Its not what the pills have done, its what the people have done to themselves with the pills. OD on sleeping pills and you die as well.

So how much towards their ambo trips/hospital stays have those that o/d on party-pills etc comtributed as compared to motorcyclists??

[eHonda]

So, put a tax on them then like alcohol and cigarettes, simple.

[Wolf]

Thats good, and you still choose to use them on your own free will, whats the difference from BZP users doing the same?
Ummm, well, lets see...

Perhaps because BZP is a far more powerful psychotropic than caffeine and can cause psychosis and seizures?

According to your simplistic logic, we should legalise P, E, LSD, PCP, and the whole fucking alphabet of recreational psychotropics as caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are all legal.

You point me to someone who's had a psychotic break owing to over-injestion of caffeine.

Pop a few too many party pills and you're looking at serious problems.

Drink a few too many coffees and you're running to the toilet. To piss or puke depending on how hard out you've gone.

You would have been on firmer ground using alcohol as your example as there are very spectacular disadvantages to having far too much of that.

[Steam]

It would take a hell of a lot more than 4 cans of V to OD a person on caffeine - talking in terms of serious repercussions or death,

I just worked it out, you'd need to drink 42 cans of V or Red Bull (30mg Caffeine per 100ml) to hit the theoretical LD50 (Lethal Dose for 50% of test subjects.)

Some interesting lethal caffeine facts here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_dose.shtml), including cases of people who have died from caffeine overdose. Including a 2-year-old girl, who got her toddler hands on a bottle of no-doze. Sad. :no:

And my lethal dose calculation was based on this (http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2954)

[Zapf]

It would take a hell of a lot more than 4 cans of V to OD a person on caffeine - talking in terms of serious repercussions or death, not merely feeling so wired you can pick up FM radio in your head.

Hyperventilating furiously for about two minutes can also have effects similar to the classed drugs and I understand from talking with an ex-junkie that spiking marmite also gets you pretty high (his theory was that the brain reacts quite strongly to concentrations of foreign molecules, no matter what they are).

I know it won't OD anyone. Just saying it has some similar effects.

Anyhow Party pills are just the tip of the visible iceberg. So in effect banning it is just kicking the problem under the bed as such.

[Wolf]

I just worked it out, you'd need to drink 42 cans of V or Red Bull (30mg Caffeine per 100ml) to hit the theoretical LD50 (Lethal Dose for 50% of test subjects.)
Most people would be reenacting a famous scene from "The Exorcist" long before that point.

Don't forget, you've also got a time constraint as your body will be breaking the caffeine down while you're drinking, so you can't tarry too long over your 42 Vs.

No-Doz would be a far more efficient - 100mg of caffeine each and it takes less time to swallow a pill than it does to drink a V.

[Zapf]

But I have seen young ones quaffing back cans of V to wash down their party-pills and then get on with their 440ml cans of Woodstock.

ermm.. bad taste. Mind you party pills are very nice with bubbles :) Relax you which Alcho does, but keeps your head clear and awake. Only tried a few times mind you.


I just worked it out, you'd need to drink 42 cans of V or Red Bull (30mg Caffeine per 100ml) to hit the theoretical LD50 (Lethal Dose for 50% of test subjects.)

Ermm... that is Lethal dose. Party pills or whatever drug, people don't take them to kill themselves :)

Also I think there is something much worse than Caffeine in that drink.

[soundbeltfarm]

agree with you albino about the O.E thing.
When i was on my o.e i would've rattled if i jumped up and down, all the shit i ingested.
every one was doing it and so i just tried it and it was alot cheaper than piss.
we would pay about 8 squid for an E and at the time a bottle of beer was about 1. 85 squid.
i never had any downers on E , did on speed though.
i never had a bad trip so was lucky.
im not sure if any of it fucked my body.
i feel normal and have 2 great kids with no known defects.
people that know me may say im not normal but thats just my mates.
i used to laugh to my self once i was back and hear parents saying their child was over seas but they;d never take drugs because they were brought up right.
and some of those peoples kids were bad abusers of the stuff.
but since i've been home ive never touched the stuff and will never again.
i drink but dont smoke (fuck that )
SBF out

[Kickaha]

You mean sort of like we use to ride without helmets and thought it was exhilarating. .

I just used to think it was fucking uncomfortable:yes:

[rideNroot]

Ummm, well, lets see...

Perhaps because BZP is a far more powerful psychotropic than caffeine and can cause psychosis and seizures?

Smells like bullshit.

Wolf, you sound like you've experienced all this before. It's great that you aren't a drug-fucked slobbering idiot. Obviously you know your limits and thats good for you.

So because of this, you think it's your right to tell other people what they can and cannot do with their lives?

I respect the fact that you think they're bad so you won't have them, but couldn't you agree that people should have the choice?
Wouldn't it be a better idea to ban things like alcohol or tobacco, which kill so many of us each year.. as opposed to party pills? (of which no one in NZ has died from)
Unfortunately too many people with your mindset are the ones setting the policies.

[inlinefour]

Ok wolf, you like to drink coffee to stay awake. Did you know coffee is a narcotic beverage and caffeine belongs to the same alkaloid group of chemicals as morphine, cocaine and strychnine and is addictive.

Adverse effects of coffee include insomnia and disruption of sleep patterns; tremors, nervousness, restlessness, and irritability; headaches; elevation of blood fatty acid levels; elevation of blood pressure and/or serum cholesterol levels; irregular heartbeats and palpitations, and increased risk of cardiac arrhythmia and heart attack; increased gastric acid production & aggravation of peptic ulcers; increased heartburn; increased symptoms of PMS; increased risk of bladder and rectal cancer; higher risk of the birth of a low-birth-weight child; and increased urinary calcium losses.

It may alarm you that this drug is freely available at every dairy and supermarket, for next to no cost! Surely we should ban this psychoactive drug ?

My point is that drinking coffee has its health risks, be they large or small, same as most other activities people do for recreation (like riding bikes).

Just because your recreational drug of choice (coffee alcohol or nicotine) isnt BZP doesnt mean others should have to live by your code.

Legal products being sold in shops can be regulated so that consumers know what they are buying, and kids cant get hold of it. The consumers can also be educated on the potential risks and side effects of the product. Then people can make educated decisions on how they want to live their lives. To me this sounds better than paying to put people in jail cos they got caught with BZP.

Hear what your saying, but what a oad of farking bolllocks boy!!! The main reason why they are now illegal is probably because of the financial strain they place on the healthcare system and other associated departments...:yes:

[Zapf]

Hear what your saying, but what a oad of farking bolllocks boy!!! The main reason why they are now illegal is probably because of the financial strain they place on the healthcare system and other associated departments...:yes:

LOL, ant that the truth. Its when they hear the sound of the dollar then they react. I think we all have an idea who "they" is.

now lets move onto the cost of Alcho and etc..

The government is always so short sighted and never looks or plans for the future.

[inlinefour]

LOL, ant that the truth. Its when they hear the sound of the dollar then they react. I think we all have an idea who "they" is.

now lets move onto the cost of Alcho and etc..

The government is always so short sighted and never looks or plans for the future.

Once again it all doils down to the dollar. The gubbermint makes so much taxes that both will alcohol never become illegal or will the buying age ever be brought back up to what it was. The mout in which they put into helthcare is far less than the revenue that is being generated from alcohol sales.:yes:

[scumdog]

I respect the fact that you think they're bad so you won't have them, but couldn't you agree that people should have the choice?
Wouldn't it be a better idea to ban things like alcohol or tobacco, which kill so many of us each year.. as opposed to party pills? (of which no one in NZ has died from)
Unfortunately too many people with your mindset are the ones setting the policies.


I for one would not give a fat-rats arse if all booze and tobacco vanished from this earth:yes: as long as the other 'recreational' drugs went too.

The only reason booze etc are worse than the others is that they are readily available,cheap and advertised to the max.

Give 'em choice? Gimme a break - people need to be protected from some choices ("Oi, I want the choice to decide if I AM too pissed to ride" "I want the choice as to what speed i can ride at" etc).

[avgas]

Any live on "No Dose" while studying?

[Wolf]

Smells like bullshit.
Believe as you like. The information is readily available.


Unfortunately too many people with your mindset are the ones setting the policies.
I didn't say I agreed with the banning, I just said I didn't care if they were and opined that those who need to take pills to help them party are too square or wimpy to party.

Not a lot that can be done (aside from mind-altering drugs, I suppose) to assist those who are just inherently uncool and socially inept, but those who use the pills for staying power need to HARDEN THE FUCK UP and cope with the fact that parties can last a while.

Or come to terms with getting their eyebrows shaved off if they pike out halfway through...

[eHonda]

Hear what your saying, but what a oad of farking bolllocks boy!!! The main reason why they are now illegal is probably because of the financial strain they place on the healthcare system and other associated departments...

I think its more to do with politicians wanting to get votes by using the old "tough on drugs" card. If it was simply about money then they would just tax the pills.


The only reason booze etc are worse than the others is that they are readily available,cheap and advertised to the max.

I dont think so, BZP is cheap, available and avdertised a lot. The effect of BZP however doesnt make people act like cavemen, like alcohol does. Nicotine is bad cause it is extremely addictive and causes people to die early.



Give 'em choice? Gimme a break - people need to be protected from some choices ("Oi, I want the choice to decide if I AM too pissed to ride" "I want the choice as to what speed i can ride at" etc).

Both those choices have have a good possibility of harming others. The choice of taking party pills has no bad effects on the health and safety of others.

Interesting facts


Well over 20 million pills containing BZP have been consumed in New Zealand with no available record attributing deaths or lasting injuries to a single ingestion of BZP.

A retrospective study carried out at an Auckland emergency department found that BZP presentations only made a minor contribution to their overdose database with most cases not producing any significant toxicity.

45.2% of people who reported using both BZP and illegal drugs such as methamphetamine reported that they used BZP so that they did not have to use methamphetamine, which was perceived as more harmful.


20 million pills consumed. If you take away BZP people are not going to stop taking drugs on the weekend - they are just going to switch to alcohol, illegally made bzp from drug dealers, or some other drug(s).

[inlinefour]

I think its more to do with politicians wanting to get votes by using the old "tough on drugs" card. If it was simply about money then they would just tax the pills.



I dont think so, BZP is cheap, available and avdertised a lot. The effect of BZP however doesnt make people act like cavemen, like alcohol does. Nicotine is bad cause it is extremely addictive and causes people to die early.



Both those choices have have a good possibility of harming others. The choice of taking party pills has no bad effects on the health and safety of others.

Interesting facts


Well over 20 million pills containing BZP have been consumed in New Zealand with no available record attributing deaths or lasting injuries to a single ingestion of BZP.

A retrospective study carried out at an Auckland emergency department found that BZP presentations only made a minor contribution to their overdose database with most cases not producing any significant toxicity.

45.2% of people who reported using both BZP and illegal drugs such as methamphetamine reported that they used BZP so that they did not have to use methamphetamine, which was perceived as more harmful.


20 million pills consumed. If you take away BZP people are not going to stop taking drugs on the weekend - they are just going to switch to alcohol, illegally made bzp from drug dealers, or some other drug(s).

The gubbermint is looking at spending the least amount possible, not wanting wanky votes like you suggested. The revenue gathered on pills will be far less than what is being spent on dealing with the aftermath.
Now the interesting thing about research and yes I am speaking from experience as I have done alot of research through my qualifications. Is that research can be manufactured to produce a desired outcome to benefit an organisation one way or another. I'm very hesitant in putting much weight on any form of research as often is has been indirectly done for the benefit of the drug manufacturer. I'm sure there is ample research that will contradict what is quoted above. In my opinion, applying simple common sense is generally the best way to deal with an issue or issues. The common sense regarding the party pills is that they are doing alot of damage to many of the users. Just because you have used them and had nil undesired outcomes does not make them safe. Although if your a muppet and insist on continued useage, the chances are that eventually it will bite you in the arse and you'll have to admit that they are infact a problem. That is, if you are able to be honest with yourself, let alone others. :mellow:

[scumdog]

I.

45.2% of people who reported using both BZP and illegal drugs such as methamphetamine reported that they used BZP so that they did not have to use methamphetamine, which was perceived as more harmful.
[/LIST]

20 million pills consumed. If you take away BZP people are not going to stop taking drugs on the weekend - they are just going to switch to alcohol, illegally made bzp from drug dealers, or some other drug(s).

Then 45.2% people have a sadly sorry life - "I took BZP 'cos I didn't want to have to use 'P'" - sigh, Lord gimme strength!!!!!!!!!

"Illegally made BZP from drug dealers"? mhahahaha, like the stuff made by NON drug dealers is so high in quality and pure etc??

Right up there with statements like 'Natural High' in the accuracy stakes.

The big thing not made so known is that a lot of kids have got into shit (medically and legally) by using booze AND party-pills - but the stigma (even though they're legal) of party pills tends to make them not admit to having used them - "oh yeah, musta had too much piss eh" is the normal comment when asking them why they have just behaved in a rather 'unruly' manner.

[Hitcher]

Interesting facts


Well over 20 million pills containing BZP have been consumed in New Zealand with no available record attributing deaths or lasting injuries to a single ingestion of BZP.

A retrospective study carried out at an Auckland emergency department found that BZP presentations only made a minor contribution to their overdose database with most cases not producing any significant toxicity.

45.2% of people who reported using both BZP and illegal drugs such as methamphetamine reported that they used BZP so that they did not have to use methamphetamine, which was perceived as more harmful.


20 million pills consumed. If you take away BZP people are not going to stop taking drugs on the weekend - they are just going to switch to alcohol, illegally made bzp from drug dealers, or some other drug(s).

Facts? Rather a liberal interpretation of that word, methinks. And even dodgier "interpretation" of them too. A bit like people advocating the use of foam-rubber bullets because they were less likely to result in death for persons considering self-harm.

Ask yourself one question: "What social benefits accrue from party pills?"

If the only answer you can come up with is that they prevent people from using P or harder drugs, then I suggest you really do need to try harder.

[slowpoke]

Lets cut to the bottom line here fella's...we must ban BZP if for no other reason than to supposedly force young women into harder drugs and therefore improve the stocks of strippers around the country.

So there's your choice: BZP or bewbies.....seems like an easy choice to me!

[eHonda]

Heres an analogy with motorcycling.

Why should we allow people to ride motorcycles on the road when it is clearly not safe. People can all just drive cars and be much safer. Sure riders get a "high" from driving them, but at what cost. Your more likely to crash, and the effects of a crash are much worse than if they had been driving in a car.

Why do we do it. Because we understand the risks, and choose to do it anyway and because it is a "free country". The government recognises that there are a lot of motorcycles in the world and that its going to be impossible to stop people riding them, so they regulate the use of them to limit the harm caused by the use of them. They dont recommend that people ride them though. They make users licence themselves and the bikes, make sure the bikes are fit to be ridden, and put laws into how people are allowed to ride them. They collects taxes off the riders to pay for the inevitable health costs which occur when people fall off.

Now substitute motorcycle riding for taking BZP, and you swap the risks from losing your body parts/life to losing your mind/life, both of which are at the extreme end and both are fairly uncommon. You swap quality controls on the bike/rider for controls on the quality of the pills, who can buy them, and advertising on the risks and precautions which should be followed. You swap Hostpitals and physio for people coming off motorcycles - paid for by their own taxes, for hostpital visits for people who get hurt by the pills - paid for by a special tax on the pills.

Both groups of people pay collectively for the harm that their chosen activity occasionally results in. Just because your thing isnt popping pills, doesnt mean you have to go turn people who are into criminals. There is a cost with making them illegal also, paying for extra people to go through the justice system isnt cheap.

By the way Im not describing the state of the system as it is now with BZP, rather how I think it should be. At the moment it is "self regulated" with no government taxes or regulation. The government had the choice of regulation or prohibition, I think they made the wrong choice.

[Steam]

H
Why should we allow people to ride motorcycles on the road when it is clearly not safe. People can all just drive cars and be much safer. Sure riders get a "high" from driving them, but at what cost. Your more likely to crash, and the effects of a crash are much worse than if they had been driving in a car.


Very true, good analogy. And the side-effects of taking the motorcycle pill / mainlining petrol / snorting the ride are worse too, you end up spending tens of thousands to support your 'habit', obsessing, cleaning, getting horribly injured, sometimes overdosing and dying.

[Hitcher]

If I didn't ride a bike I'd probably want to kill myself in a car. Or, god forbid, something heavier, like an Abrams M1A1.

[inlinefour]

Heres an analogy with motorcycling.
.

Anal maybe, might be time for you to zip it boy, cause your really starting to make yourself look like a [insert word here]. :whocares:

[scumdog]

Heres an analogy with motorcycling.


Both groups of people pay collectively for the harm that their chosen activity occasionally results in. Just because your thing isnt popping pills, doesnt mean you have to go turn people who are into criminals. There is a cost with making them illegal also, paying for extra people to go through the justice system isnt cheap.

By the way Im not describing the state of the system as it is now with BZP, rather how I think it should be. At the moment it is "self regulated" with no government taxes or regulation. The government had the choice of regulation or prohibition, I think they made the wrong choice.

Of course home made BZP pills would NOT create tax - what analogy with motorbikes would you put here?

And motorbikes are cheaper than a car to run, have a practical application.
BZP has??????????????

[NighthawkNZ]

BZP has??????????????

sorta has a ring to it... "your listening to 1 BEE ZED PEE FM" :rofl:


errr other than that will get rid of my worms I suppose :D

[Wolf]

Anal maybe, might be time for you to zip it boy, cause your really starting to make yourself look like a [insert word here]. :whocares:

Errrrm... "teeny-bopper amateur who is so useless he needs to take pills to be able to party"?

Sorry, more than one word, but I doubt even the Germans, with their predilection for connecta-set words, have a single word for that.

Don't worry, eHonda, I'm not quite the anti-everything Nazi I seem to be, you're perfectly entitled to be so lame that the only way you can have fun is to pop a pill...

I actually feel a lot of sympathy for your predicament - must be hard being out-partied by fossils like me.

[eHonda]

If people look at my online profile name differently because of my point of view portrayed in this conversation then so be it.:whocares:


Of course home made BZP pills would NOT create tax - what analogy with motorbikes would you put here?

What are you talking about? A tax on the sale of the regulated product being sold in shops is what im talking about. People wont buy dodgy bzp if they can buy legitimate stuff in shops. Homemade bzp will only be made when its illegal to buy, and the demand for the drug outweighs the supply - Once everyone's stock piles of pills they will have been buying up now runs out. I guess if bikes were made illegal though people down the street would go about making something that resembled a motorbike to sell to people who want the thrill of motorbiking, and aint going to listen to the government's stupid rule! Wouldnt be very safe though I imagine.


And motorbikes are cheaper than a car to run, have a practical application.
BZP has??????????????

Well if it had no benefits then it wouldnt be selling. People arent that stupid. Its cheaper and safer than alcohol I guess, and does the same job in getting you excited about the otherwise mundane activities like going into town on a saturday night?
So are you saying that if an activity isnt practical for doing things than they should be made illegal? If so better start banning sports, games, movies, and all manner of things people do to pass the time. Rugby injuries anyone? I guess if you ask the people using them they will tell you people get together take them and a good social time ensues, not dissimilar to sports teams getting together to do something they like and enjoying doing it together in good company of others.

I guess these analogies I am using are my way of trying to break down the stigma and stereotypes in peoples heads of party pill users. To get you to look at the activity from an objective viewpoint.


Errrrm... "teeny-bopper amateur who is so useless he needs to take pills to be able to party"?

I dont use them, tried them a few times when they first came out but didnt like them. I aint no teeny bopper either. I think it is exactly this type of stereotyping is the reason why the pills are getting banned. Please dont resort to random name calling if you have nothing to add to the conversation. Thats not what KB is about is it.

[inlinefour]

Clever how you can find dirty words hidden in other words :rockon:. Wasnt gonna say it, but i believe your personal arrogance warrants it, and it fits in as an example with my motorbiking analogy. Maybe if you had been taking BZP instead of riding bikes as a hobby you would still be able to walk. And the tax payer wouldnt have had to pay to fix you up.

If people look at my online profile name differently because of my point of view portrayed in this conversation then so be it.:whocares:



What are you talking about? A tax on the sale of the regulated product being sold in shops is what im talking about. People wont buy dodgy bzp if they can buy legitimate stuff in shops. Homemade bzp will only be made when its illegal to buy, and the demand for the drug outweighs the supply - Once everyone's stock piles of pills they will have been buying up now runs out. I guess if bikes were made illegal though people down the street would go about making something that resembled a motorbike to sell to people who want the thrill of motorbiking, and aint going to listen to the government's stupid rule! Wouldnt be very safe though I imagine.



Well if it had no benefits then it wouldnt be selling. People arent that stupid. Its cheaper and safer than alcohol I guess, and does the same job in getting you excited about the otherwise mundane activities like going into town on a saturday night?
So are you saying that if an activity isnt practical for doing things than they should be made illegal? If so better start banning sports, games, movies, and all manner of things people do to pass the time. Rugby injuries anyone? I guess if you ask the people using them they will tell you people get together take them and a good social time ensues, not dissimilar to sports teams getting together to do something they like and enjoying doing it together in good company of others.

I guess these analogies I am using are my way of trying to break down the stigma and stereotypes in peoples heads of party pill users. To get you to look at the activity from an objective viewpoint.



I dont use them, tried them a few times when they first came out but didnt like them. I aint no teeny bopper either. I think it is exactly this type of stereotyping is the reason why the pills are getting banned. Please dont resort to random name calling if you have nothing to add to the conversation. Thats not what KB is about is it.

This is what KBer is all about, having a discussion about whatever and having different views and opinions. Your comments about my accident and yes thats all it was shows the sort of individual you truely are, shit happens and I guess it takes all sorts to make the world go around, even you. :jerry::finger::moon::kick:

[slowpoke]

Wasnt gonna say it, but i believe your personal arrogance warrants it, and it fits in as an example with my motorbiking analogy. Maybe if you had been taking BZP instead of riding bikes as a hobby you would still be able to walk. And the tax payer wouldnt have had to pay to fix you up.



That's it? That's your best shot? Do you really consider taking BZP as an activity in itself to be a valid alternative to motorcycling? Or any activity for that matter?
You're crackin' me up here mate! Keep talkin', you are the pro-BZP equivalent of Don Brash with all the other pro-BZP dudes goin' "Will somebody puhleeese shut that fugger up!!"
You're a student huh? Pleeeese don't tell me what you are studying, my stomach muscles are already hurtin' something fierce.

[eHonda]

No that wasnt my main point, my main points have been outlined in my posts and it seems most people here are to stuck in their ways to carry out debates on real life topics.

[eHonda]

Im studying telecommunications engineering by the way - in my final year.

[inlinefour]

Im studying telecommunications engineering by the way - in my final year.

How about you move to a country when your finished, where they sell party pills, seeing as your so keen on them... :whocares:

[eHonda]

Do you not read my posts fully? Im not keen on them, I dont use them. I just know that many others do, and I think that making them illegal is the wrong way to deal with the issue.

[inlinefour]

Do you not read my posts fully? Im not keen on them, I dont use them. I just know that many others do, and I think that making them illegal is the wrong way to deal with the issue.

Of course I read your posts, otherwise I would not be replying to them. I think that making them illegal is the right way to deal with them. That simple really and I can base my opinion on my knowedge base as a registered nurse working in mental health and my experiences in that field. :yes:

[scumdog]

What are you talking about? A tax on the sale of the regulated product being sold in shops is what im talking about. People wont buy dodgy bzp if they can buy legitimate stuff in shops. Homemade bzp will only be made when its illegal to buy, and the demand for the drug outweighs the supply -



So are you saying that if an activity isnt practical for doing things than they should be made illegal?

Just like people won't buy dodgy home-brew if they can buy legitemate stuff in shops? Tuis moment.

And you were the one to link the two activities - I brought up a practical reason for motorbikes - couldn't find one for BZP related products except to make psychotic worm-free cattle.

[marioc]

Whats the bet most of you anti-party pillers love to go out and get pissed,a fair percentage i bet.
Whats the difference here?

[scumdog]

Whats the bet most of you anti-party pillers love to go out and get pissed,a fair percentage i bet.
Whats the difference here?

But I can also have a glass of wine with a meal, a can or two of beer after cutting the grass etc.
Don't do THOSE things to get pissed.

Do you take a nibble at a party-pill so you don't get a buzz or something like that??? I doubt it.

The difference is party-pills are only ever taken for one reason.

And a lot of those who take party-pills also drink to get pissed - often at the same time as they're taking party pills....Well down here in unsophisticated red-neck Southern land they do.

What do they do in Auckland? - take latte's with their party-pills???

[davereid]

BZP will go the way of the dodo - its just too hard to make for the buzz it produces.

Much easier to make methamphetamine, as long as your balls are big enough to cope with the bang if the birch reduction goes wrong.

[Wolf]

A tax on the sale of the regulated product being sold in shops is what im talking about. People wont buy dodgy bzp if they can buy legitimate stuff in shops. Homemade bzp will only be made when its illegal to buy, and the demand for the drug outweighs the supply


People arent that stupid.
Nope, no one in the country is stupid enough to buy dodgy drugs of unknown quality, no one is stupid enough to drink and drive or mix pills and alcohol...

We've never had any issue with irresponsible people misusing drugs - legal or otherwise - in this country. No road deaths either. People aren't stupid.


Its cheaper and safer than alcohol I guess, and does the same job in getting you excited about the otherwise mundane activities like going into town on a saturday night?
Jesus, you are seriously sad, aren't you?

If heading into town on a Saturday is too mundane for you, stay home. And I suggest counselling for your disorder - Who knows, in a few years you might get to the point when going to town is "mildly enjoyable".


Please dont resort to random name calling if you have nothing to add to the conversation. Thats not what KB is about is it.
I does have a certain tradition...

And it's better than saying "Maybe if you had been taking BZP instead of riding bikes as a hobby you would still be able to walk. And the tax payer wouldnt have had to pay to fix you up" to one of the more respected members on this site.

Act your age, not your post count.

[davereid]

Nope, no one in the country is stupid enough to buy dodgy drugs of unknown quality...We've never had any issue with irresponsible people misusing drugs - legal or otherwise - in this country....

Actually its the prohibition that exacerbates the problem.

Drugs like MDMA are very very safe, much safer than alcohol. But they are hard to make. The prohibition of MDMA led to P, which of course is very easy to make, but absolutely destructive.

While we can debate the reasons why people like to change their perception of reality with drugs, we can't alter the fact that people do, and always have chosen to do it.

[eHonda]

Just like people won't buy dodgy home-brew if they can buy legitemate stuff in shops? Tuis moment.

Most people buy liqour from the shop. The tax they pay makes a large contribution to cleaning up all alcohol related damage. As such most people will buy pills from the shops because if it was regulated, then they know it will be of good quality and measured dose, and wont ruin their night by making them sick. I havent heard of anyone using homemade bzp.

You could say - just like people wont drive around without a motorbike helmet on if you can just buy them in shops - sure people will, but they are the minority - stupid and will learn the hard way.


And you were the one to link the two activities - I brought up a practical reason for motorbikes - couldn't find one for BZP related products except to make psychotic worm-free cattle.

I just made an analogy, look it up on wikipedia.
here was my answer-
Well if it had no benefits then it wouldnt be selling. People arent that stupid. Its cheaper and safer than alcohol I guess, and does the same job in getting you excited about the otherwise mundane activities like going into town on a saturday night?



But I can also have a glass of wine with a meal, a can or two of beer after cutting the grass etc.
Don't do THOSE things to get pissed.

Do you take a nibble at a party-pill so you don't get a buzz or something like that??? I doubt it.

The difference is party-pills are only ever taken for one reason.

And a lot of those who take party-pills also drink to get pissed - often at the same time as they're taking party pills....Well down here in unsophisticated red-neck Southern land they do.

What do they do in Auckland? - take latte's with their party-pills???

People take BZP because they like the effects, people drink alcohol cos they like the effects. How much of whatever you take is up to the individual. If they choose to overindulge then they suffer the consequences. Thats life.

[slowpoke]

Whats the bet most of you anti-party pillers love to go out and get pissed,a fair percentage i bet.
Whats the difference here?

So what's your point? You think party pills are gonna help the situation? Pissed and pingin' is waaaay worse than just pissed, and Scumdog and co can testify (literally) to that fact.

If these things are so safe and have no side effects then would you give them to your children? If not, why not? I catch a 1:30am flight for work every three weeks and I can see the benefits of kids staying awake for a few extra hours rather than being tired, cranky little shits. Could be a nice little earner for the party pill market. I mean, there's no harm with taking them is there?

[eHonda]

Jesus, you are seriously sad, aren't you?

If heading into town on a Saturday is too mundane for you, stay home. And I suggest counselling for your disorder - Who knows, in a few years you might get to the point when going to town is "mildly enjoyable".

You see many completely sober people in town? Maybe one or two sober drivers.

Nah it never was my scene, I like to party at friends houses where I am not surrounded by sleazy wannabe posers and violent mongoloids, and the music is not shit.

[eHonda]

If these things are so safe and have no side effects then would you give them to your children? If not, why not? I catch a 1:30am flight for work every three weeks and I can see the benefits of kids staying awake for a few extra hours rather than being tired, cranky little shits. Could be a nice little earner for the party pill market. I mean, there's no harm with taking them is there?

So, you getting your kids a bottle of rum each for christmas are you? Its safe to drink isnt it? Whats your point, regulation of pills would stop them being sold to children, the same as alcohol. Neither has no risk of side effects, but once you are over 18 you are old enough to choose what you want to consume.

[slowpoke]

So, you getting your kids a bottle of rum each for christmas are you? Its safe to drink isnt it? Whats your point, regulation of pills would stop them being sold to children, the same as alcohol. Neither has no risk of side effects, but once you are over 18 you are old enough to choose what you want to consume.

My point is that these things are often espoused as being completely safe...so why the age restriction?
I find the comparison to alcohol to be quite ludicrous actually. Saying that alcohol is legal therefore these things should be too is the ultimate shot in the foot considering the amount of alcohol related problems we have. It's like saying "thats stupid and I want to be able to do something stupid too", where is the logic in that? To make things even more unpalatable, the party pill stupidity only exacerbates the alcohol stupidity.
Yes, alcohol is dangerous and to a degree steps are being taken to limit the danger (drink driving limits and policing, modified pub hours, advertising etc), unfortunately the problem is so endemic in society it is now difficult to manage. The steps are small but they are being taken.
The party pill ban is attempting to stop a present and potential problem before it becomes endemic and unmaneageable.

[inlinefour]

My point is that these things are often espoused as being completely safe...so why the age restriction?
I find the comparison to alcohol to be quite ludicrous actually. Saying that alcohol is legal therefore these things should be too is the ultimate shot in the foot considering the amount of alcohol related problems we have. It's like saying "thats stupid and I want to be able to do something stupid too", where is the logic in that? To make things even more unpalatable, the party pill stupidity only exacerbates the alcohol stupidity.
Yes, alcohol is dangerous and to a degree steps are being taken to limit the danger (drink driving limits and policing, modified pub hours, advertising etc), unfortunately the problem is so endemic in society it is now difficult to manage. The steps are small but they are being taken.
The party pill ban is attempting to stop a present and potential problem before it becomes endemic and unmaneageable.

And by banning the party pills and avoiding, or attempting to avoid an epademic, that cannot be a bad thing. At least there is one less thing to worry about, I hope...

[Wolf]

I think that eHonda is also missing an important fact about alcohol...

It's by far the easiest drug to manufacture but it's just as prone to "bad brews" as all the others - a cursory examination of the Prohibition era in the States reveals that.

BZP, P, LSD etc require complicated set-ups, even grass - in large-scale operations - is a hassle compared with home made alcohol.

Remember, I'm not talking quality homemade brews and spirits that require finesse and care, here, I'm talking the hastily-made shit that you can knock out and sell off to a less-than-discerning "dry" crowd - the stuff that destroys organs or leaves you blind.

Prohibit alcohol and you're putting the easiest made drug into the hands of the criminal fraternity and we have the USA's worst historical nightmare with modern weapons...

[Wolf]

To elaborate on my previous quick post.

Current abuse of legally available alcohol is a bigger problem than abuses of the illegal drugs - largely because a higher percentage of the population uses alchohol (to various exents) than any other mind-altering drug (hence I'm ignoring nicotine as it is not psychotropic, merely heavily addictive).

The high percentage of alcohol users equates to a higher number of people overdoing the booze than the number of people overdoing other drugs so the number of cases of alcohol-related problems is greater than those of other drugs.

The figures for other drugs would probably climb a little if they were made legal (as a few more people would use them and they would be able to be used more freely) but they still probably would not get to the same figures as alcohol owing to its popularity.

And therein lies one of the biggest problems with the prohibition of alcohol - as the US learned to its cost.

Any vegetable matter can be made into alcohol - including lawn clippings and table scraps if you don't care about quality or taste (possibly because you're brewing it as fuel for your car).

Making whiskey, vodka, gin etc is difficult work and requires finesse.

Making ALCOHOL is dead simple and requires minimal equipment.

And you can't control the raw ingredients (as you can attempt to do with the ingredients for P etc) as most of them are food (if you're making quality booze) and lawn clippings will do at a pinch.

So, they outlaw alcohol. Suddenly the most popular recreational pyschotropic in the country (with at least 100s of thousands of users) is illegal and the production and supply is in the hands of the gangs.

Of course, to keep up with demand, the gangs are going to have to produce a lot of booze very quickly - so you can pretty much guarantee there will be more stills producing fuel-grade alcohol quickly and cheaply than there will be stills producing reasonably good home-made spirits.

Don't believe me? What, the gangs never cut the quality drugs with other shit before selling to the punters?

Fuck, most PUBS cut their top shelf booze! Go and buy a nip or two of your favourite top shelf tipple and the chances are high that what you get is 40-90% (depending on the greed of the company/publican) VAT-69 or worse. The average age of your shot of 12-year-old scotch may very well be something like 6 months...

The only difference is that the pubs cut their top shelf stuff with actual intended-for-human-consumption alcohol (crap taste and quality though it may be) that is technically the same type as what they're diluting, whereas the gangs aren't likely to care if what they're mixing in is more grass-clipping rot-gut than decent alcohol.

The available booze in a prohibition will be of unknown quantity and will be controlled by the gangs - as the other illegal drugs are now - and they'll have a larger market than they ever had.

Of course, we could never have the probs that the USA had with prohibition, could we. Our gangs would never use firearms and violence to settle turf/distribution disputes or to discourage aspiring amateurs. They'd never shoot at police or blow up a rival gang's "speak-easy".

And the public here would never go to an illegal drinking den or buy bootleg liquor.

Suuuuure.

So: prohibition of alcohol would cause more problems than it would solve - gang warfare, potentially poisonous alcohol, pretty much impossible to police or to track/control raw materials etc.

P, BZP, LSD etc are easier to make illegal and control and they still can't completely prevent the manufacture, distribution and use of these drugs.

Making/keeping alcohol, despite its problems, legal while clamping down on other drugs is a matter of "choosing ones battles" - they're losing often enough against the other drugs.

They would fail spectacularly if they tried to outlaw alcohol - just as the USA did.

"They should make other drugs legal because alcohol is" is one of the most naively stupid rationales I have ever heard - we have enough problems with a legal drug they can never stop and people illegally mixing other shit with it without them making it legal to have the other shit as well.

I'm well aware that it is the minority of alcohol (and other drug) users that cause thge problems and the majority of all users are moset-likely temperate, but willfully adding to the problem would just be plain stupid.

[eHonda]

So: prohibition of alcohol would cause more problems than it would solve - gang warfare, potentially poisonous alcohol, pretty much impossible to police or to track/control raw materials etc.

Yeah thats also a reason why I dont think they should ban BZP. BZP is really popular at the moment. 20% of NZ have tried Party Pills from one survey done http://www.biggie.co.nz/editorial/articles/shore_study_stanz.html. When it gets outlawed there is going to be people buying up large from the shops and still using it after its made illegal. When their personal stash all runs out they will be desensitised to using illegal drugs (they allready have been while using up their stash). Then they may hear of drug dealers (their mates, mate) with it (or something that passes for it) for sale, which is bound to happen and then sooner or later they end up sick/dead from bad pills, or in jail from getting into trouble with whatever else the drug dealer pressures them into buying. And the drug dealers get richer with more drugs/customers, and gang warfare increases etc.


"They should make other drugs legal because alcohol is" is one of the most naively stupid rationales I have ever heard - we have enough problems with a legal drug they can never stop and people illegally mixing other shit with it without them making it legal to have the other shit as well.


Saying that alcohol is legal therefore these things should be too is the ultimate shot in the foot considering the amount of alcohol related problems we have. It's like saying "thats stupid and I want to be able to do something stupid too", where is the logic in that?

Yeah well if you want party pills banned and you drink alcohol, then you are being a hypocrate. Every time you drink you support the alcohol companies (to make more alcohol and advertise more) and influence others (including young people who might look up to you) into thinking that drinking is the normal thing to do. Thus adding to the drinking problem, yet all the time saying others shouldn't add to the BZP problem, by taking BZP.

[Wolf]

So you don't drink at all, eHonda, yet you tried party pills?

Or are you one of those "hypocrites" that drink alcohol, compounding the hypocrisy by lashing out at others who do?

[doc]

I think that eHonda is also missing an important fact about alcohol...

It's by far the easiest drug to manufacture but it's just as prone to "bad brews" as all the others - Remember, I'm not talking quality homemade brews and spirits that require finesse and care, here, I'm talking the hastily-made shit that you can knock out and sell off to a less-than-discerning "dry" crowd - the stuff that destroys organs or leaves you blind.

Prohibit alcohol and you're putting the easiest made drug into the hands of the criminal fraternity and we have the USA's worst historical nightmare with modern weapons...
I take that as an insult to my integrety. My brews are prepared with the upmost finesse and care. I save the first 50 mls for my lawn mower and the remainder of the spirit, that comes off above 92 degree's I give to the less fortunate. The body of the brew I keep.

[Wolf]

My brews are prepared with the upmost finesse and care. I save the first 50 mls for my lawn mower and the remainder of the spirit, that comes off above 92 degree's I give to the less fortunate.
And good stuff it is, too - indistinguishable from sniffing smokeless powder

[doc]

And good stuff it is, too - indistinguishable from sniffing smokeless powder
Mmmmm so you also snort stuff. I hope that is an over the counter powder ?

[delusionz]

I've just read through 5 pages of utter crap, worn out arguments (both ways), some nasty insults and just general bickering.

My take is ban them.

That whole "it keeps people away from the hard drugs" is bullshit that's what that guy, fuck, what's his name I forgot who's always on the TV talking about his crapass pills will have you believe.

Remember when they said weed was the "gateway drug to P", that nonsense is more applicable to BZP.

It's simple, people take BZP because they cant get the real thing.

So on both sides (the users and the anti-users) theres no valid argument for keeping it. The people that can get drugs will get drugs and the people that cant get drugs it should remain that way.

[Zapf]

I've just read through 5 pages of utter crap, worn out arguments (both ways), some nasty insults and just general bickering.

My take is ban them.

That whole "it keeps people away from the hard drugs" is bullshit that's what that guy, fuck, what's his name I forgot who's always on the TV talking about his crapass pills will have you believe.

Remember when they said weed was the "gateway drug to P", that nonsense is more applicable to BZP.

It's simple, people take BZP because they cant get the real thing.

So on both sides (the users and the anti-users) theres no valid argument for keeping it. The people that can get drugs will get drugs and the people that cant get drugs it should remain that way.

I assume you are commenting from experience?

[Zapf]

And the drug dealers get richer with more drugs/customers, and gang warfare increases etc.

Perhaps I should buy up large on BZP... and then their price will triple after its banned.

Thank the government for making whoever that does the above rich... ermm.

[scumdog]

A hell of a lot of party-pill users are users because of the age-limit thing, the 'danger' element, the "I'm cool" appearance and the rebeliousness of using something their parents would not prove of, - and just a bit for actual effect.
In other words they're immature kids doing what immature kids do.

[Zapf]

ah so true, they can't buy achlo or get into bars so they pop the pill. Agreed, bad start and too young to know. Perhaps they should have put a age limit on them like 22 or 25. But we know the older ones will just buy them for the young ones and make a buck on it... gerrrr

[Wolf]

Remember when they said weed was the "gateway drug to P", that nonsense is more applicable to BZP.
Especially considering that the touted effect of BZP is "similar to that of amphetamines".

Quite a considerable difference between the effects of weed and those of P.

Which is more likely to lead to P usage when the effect loses its edge?

[moT]

i have just done extencive reserch on this topc for a uni assignment and have also made a very detailed submition to parliment as they are still in the first reading of this bill. origionaly i was for the bill being passed but after i did some reaserch i found out it is probably the safest and most sencible drug to take! there have been no reported deaths due to partypills where ciggerets cause 8000 unnessary deaths every year and drinking causes about 500 road deaths every year. party pills cause no road deaths or cause people to die, there ha been 27 hospital submittions by ABUSE of partypills and mixing it with other non reccomended drugs. it is these people who are giveing party pills a bad name. if you want furthur information PM me and i can give you my full report and submittion.

[moT]

it is quite a common occurance now that when a group of mates go out for a night on the town the sober driver will take some party pills instead of drinking. also banning party pills will hand them over to gangs where the ingredients wont be regulated and they could put any type of crap in there. also incouraging ppl to do harder drugs. party pills have also no long term affects when takeing them.

[Ragingrob]

Hmmm well I had a seizure due to party pills, that was fun :)

[moT]

Hmmm well I had a seizure due to party pills, that was fun :)

you obveously abused them its people like you who give them a bad name

[Hitcher]

It's hard to see how anybody could give them a good name. Any chemical taken to excess is dangerous. Any potion distilled by shady characters with no regulation or control on its manufacture is particularly dangerous. Any person who would willingly take such dubious products is an idiot. Any person who would attempt to mount a case promoting the consumption of such products is sadly deluded. Frivolous submissions will be rejected by officials and the select committee. The government has the numbers necessary to ban party pills. Get over it.

[Toaster]

Drugs are bad, mm kay?

So are my farts, but they aren't illegal :dodge:

[Hitcher]

So are my farts, but they aren't illegal

They will be after 2012.

[Toaster]

A hell of a lot of party-pill users are users because of the age-limit thing, the 'danger' element, the "I'm cool" appearance and the rebeliousness of using something their parents would not prove of, - and just a bit for actual effect.
In other words they're immature kids doing what immature kids do.

Sounds exactly like why some immature bikers got into motorcycling!

[Toaster]

They will be after 2012.


It's hard to see how anybody could give them a good name. Any chemical taken to excess is dangerous. .... Any person who would willingly take such dubious products is an idiot. Any person who would attempt to mount a case promoting the consumption of such products is sadly deluded. ... Get over it.

Well said Hitcher. Drug taking is exactly that - stupid and also damaging to your one and only body. We don't get second chances.

[jrandom]

So are my farts, but they aren't illegal

Ah, but can you sell your farts for $330 an ounce?

And I bet you still try and hold them in so that the cop doesn't smell them when you're pulled over...

:D

[jrandom]

Drug taking is... stupid and also damaging to your one and only body.

Wise words, which we should all remember...

[Toaster]

Ah, but can you sell your farts for $330 an ounce?

And I bet you still try and hold them in so that the cop doesn't smell them when you're pulled over...

:D

But that is where you are wrong... if you get pulled over, fart like hell and they will surely walk away disgusted and leave you alone.... maybe even shit yourself just to really get them running. :niceone:

[Usarka]

party pills have also no long term affects when takeing them.

I actually think more harm will come from banning them.

but you aint going to convince people by talking through your arse with bollox statements like that.

[jrandom]

if you get pulled over... shit yourself

I'm on 90 points now. Shitting myself if I get pulled over is going to be pretty much par for the course, I'm afraid.

Maybe I need to swap to a cruiser...

[Hitcher]

I actually think more harm will come from banning them.

I disagree. It's not as though they're currently made to a high standard and marketed by scrupulously careful people. Banning them may make them harder to get and make criminal gangs a bit richer, but that's about the worst of it really.

[Toaster]

I'm on 90 points now. Shitting myself if I get pulled over is going to be pretty much par for the course, I'm afraid.

Maybe I need to swap to a cruiser...

Cruisers are plently fast enough to lose ya licence on... and ya life. :Police:

90 points and many good dollars wasted eh!! Bummer.

[Usarka]

I disagree. It's not as though they're currently made to a high standard and marketed by scrupulously careful people. Banning them may make them harder to get and make criminal gangs a bit richer, but that's about the worst of it really.

Yeah but I'm hearing comments from people that suggest people will just switch to illegal stuff. Guy (manager) at work was talking about the big day out i suggested he stash some party pills. His reply was "fuck it if there going to be illegal i might as well get the real stuff".

Horse has bolted, we have shitloads of people who are used to using stimulants and now we are taking them away. They will still have alternatives but they are all illegal and in some cases (eg P) are much more dangerous.

But i hope your right.

[Toaster]

I quite simply DO NOT want to share the road with druggies.

They can go kill themselves somewhere else for all I care and leave us other people alone to enjoy our rides in peace and let us live another day without loss or injury we didn't deserve.

[jrandom]

90 points and many good dollars wasted eh!! Bummer.

Curiously enough, most of those were acquired in the cage, commuting to and fro between Auckland and Oop Norf (tm) to see family. One tends to get lazy and impatient doing the same trip that way, over and over.

I don't let myself get impatient any more, now.

Oh, yes, party pills. I hear they pretty much just make you feel awful. Why would anyone want to take them anyway?

[hospitalfood]

well i think they should leave them alone and hope they keep the kids off speed.......

wont be that long before they ban motorbikes. at which time I will go off the rails and start killing people by boring them to death, as it will be the only option left open (no cars, no bikes, no cutlery, no dangerous objects, no running ).

[Toaster]

Oh, yes, party pills. I hear they pretty much just make you feel awful. Why would anyone want to take them anyway?

A life that needs drugs to alter their state to get a buzz or enjoyment is a sad pathetic one. There are far better ways to make the most of the short lives we have and have real fun, rather than blow it on shit that is probably screwing with your health... sooner or later.

[jrandom]

A life that needs drugs to alter their state to get a buzz or enjoyment is a sad pathetic one.

You're making me feel guilty about my after-dinner G&T, dude.

[Swoop]

Yeah but I'm hearing comments from people that suggest people will just switch to illegal stuff.

Horse has bolted, we have shitloads of people who are used to using stimulants and now we are taking them away. They will still have alternatives but they are all illegal and in some cases (eg P) are much more dangerous.
OR, they might simply revert to the drug of choice... alcohol.

Even more pissheads on the roads?

[Toaster]

You're making me feel guilty about my after-dinner G&T, dude.

Nothing wrong with a bit of drink.... it is when it is taken to the point it negatively affects you or your health that it poses risks. Same with any kind of drug or medication.... that is why they have warning labels.

I figure we have one body, one life - have fun by all means but why do something that actually screws you up? Hard drugs, mind altering drugs, getting highs, excessive drink - I fail to see any good in any of that crap.

Heavy drinking cost me dearly.

[Curious_AJ]

meh, ban the bloody things... who really cares!!??

[TLMAN]

"Friday, 5 October 2007
Party Pills no Cure for Nicky's Ex Logan Millar

One of the many men that Nicky 'Knickerless' Watson has bonked err dated (thanks to Damo for that nickname for Nicky) has died at his home. His death has been attributed to losing his battle with depression.

Although the NZ Herald and TVNZ have not used the word suicide, it appears that Logan Miller committed suicide or had an unplanned accident.



Logan Millar was the director of Advanced Herbal Supplements, which was incorporated in 2000 and produced a range of pills including Charge, Red Hearts and Ice Diamonds.

Mr Millar was considered the king of the party pill trade by some and had made millions. He employed 16 staff.

Before getting into party pills, he was selling a herbal sex aid, Charge, and caffeine pills.

He dated model Nicky Watson in August last year after splitting with his girlfriend of five years, Miss Erotica Michaiah Simmons.
Kind of ironic, that a chap that markets party pills is not a happy chappy. Wonder if he took too many of the party pills or not enough?"


this says it all, a guy with millions in the bank, hot chicks lining up, a garage full of exotic cars and an awesome house worth about 10 mil - he used to take his "party pills" like lollies and he ended up going loopy and killing himself!!

[canarlee]

meh, ban the bloody things... who really cares!!??

well.................




no comment from me coz..............

[mattimeo]

Truly recon' it's a shame they're being banned. Definitely a safe option over MDMA, for me. I recognise arguments both way but at the end of the day I believe it should be a choice left to individuals. Screw this nanny-state bullshit.

Imagine if they treated alcohol with the same 'anti' aguments though. Seriously.

[imdying]

A life that needs drugs to alter their state to get a buzz or enjoyment is a sad pathetic one. There are far better ways to make the most of the short lives we have and have real fun, rather than blow it on shit that is probably screwing with your health... sooner or later.Yeah, drinking is pretty hard on the body... still, rather people are into drugs than thugby.

[Hitcher]

I believe it should be a choice left to individuals.

Individuals randomly consuming dodgy chemicals is one thing. People selling and distributing them is another. The "nanny state" is (rightly) concerned about the latter and doesn't really give a shit about what deadhead losers may choose to do about the former. Shit, after all, happens.

[Usarka]

Unfortunately its very easy to see with hindsight that drugs and booze to excess is bad, but unfortunately most people have to find out for themselves.

the ban is good in that it wont be available for the next round of people growing up, but hopefully we dont have a full on P or E scene going by then due to all the current lot forced underground.


So, I’ve decided to take my work back underground
To stop it falling into the wrong hands

[MarkyMark]

Utterly bloody stupid. People will keep taking "party pills" of some description, albeit not quite as many. But they'll pay much more, the money will go to gangs rather than taxable businesses, and there will be no control over what's in the pills, so there's a chance you'll end up taking ecstasy or god knows what. I've never used 'em, but banning them is a shitty idea.

[moT]

party pills are about as healthy as a coffee or a red bull they are just a stimulant there have been no proven long term affects and they have been trying to find long term affects from it since 1998. drinking and smokeing cause more physical harm to you and others than party pills but since we have all grown up around them we believe its normal and safe (to a point). If the government ban party pills they may as well ban drinking and smokeing. party pills are not addictive shops dont pry on little kids nor do people sell them outside of schoold or push them on to you they dont make you a dumbass or fail at school nor resort to crime to get them. it is your own personal choice if you want tho have them or not. by the government banning them they are simpily removeing us of more of our freedoms as humans

[moT]

for all the people who acually oppose this bill log on to www.parliament.govt.nz and send in a submittion opposing the bill. Argueing here wont get anything done i have already sent in my part so you people send in yours and make a difference.

[moT]

the bill is called Misuse of Drugs (Classification of BZP) Amendment Bill

[Usarka]

there have been no proven long term affects
of course theres no proof, there havent been any long term studies.....

[Teflon]

Good. I Hate BZP, shit high, come-downs fucking sucks. Try and socialize on the shit, you end up looking like a vegetable.

I would take a shit E over bZP any day.

[Hitcher]

of course theres no proof, there havent been any long term studies.....

And there is no consistently available, quality-assured product available to provide sound population-based pharmacological information either. "Party pills" are as variable as the whims of their "manufacturers" and the range of ingredients that they had available on the day they were doing their cook up.

[Phil W]

The only question I have is why would anyone take cattle worming tablets for fun, you must be joking eh? But go for it, it's your life. You must be able to sell tickets for an activity this foolish. I'd like to say I'd buy a ticket to watch but I see the results of alcohol and drug problems every day at my work.
Remember, there are not enough rehabs or mental health beds in NZ.