Why can't people be taught proper english as thier second language

[skidMark]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....

this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR!

anyways this is lily's profile...dear god...

I was a nurse in China,and worked in hospital ten years. My lifestyle is fit and healthy. I love sporting and outdoor activites.
I'm a honest,gentle,caring and understanding woman,interests in spend time with my darling to travel,dancing,singing,take picture,going out for dinner,watching a DVD in home. I really enjoy to look after my darling and cook for my family


hmmm maybe i could make a good little housewife out of her?

[scracha]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits..
What, like capital letters, brackets and question marks? I take it you're not a native English speaker or you never went to school yourself?
.


this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR!

So you won't mind me saying you're a complete fuckwit then?

[Grahameeboy]

English is not an easy language for all Asians to learn because it is not a natural pronounciation for them so takes time.

Why not make Chinese a second language as there are probably as many chinese as there are English speaking people.

Generalsiing I know but it seems that Kiwi's are not very patience when listening to a foreign language.

I have a German friend who I can understand clearly (okay I know them) and she spoke great English but her work still told her to take extra lessons.

I have been at a party where a Glasgow lad was chatting away and the Kiwi's looked bemused.

With Asians it is just a case of changing the way we say things.....they understand if you make it less complicated.

[paturoa]

Makes me wonder what the first language is of KBers???

[Grahameeboy]

Mmmm let me guess.....Kasian, Knegativian, Kbasherian.......:yes:

[Sanx]

Mmmm let me guess.....Kasian, Knegativian, Kbasherian.......:yes:

Those are just dialects. The actual language is called 'shite'.

[Grahameeboy]

Those are just dialects. The actual language is called 'shite'.

"the words, their pronunciation, and the methods of combining them used and understood by a community"

[tide]

Mark...

Question for you what is your second language?

[Steam]

Mark...

Question for you what is your second language?

Yeah! Skidmark feel free to criticise them when YOU have learned a second language.
It ain't easy to learn another language later in life either.

[The Stranger]

I have been at a party where a Glasgow lad was chatting away and the Kiwi's looked bemused.


Get Dover, Boomer and Vicki at the pub. Funny as fuck, but can't understand a word they say.

[Grahameeboy]

Get Dover, Boomer and Vicki at the pub. Funny as fuck, but can't understand a word they say.

True....being from UK I have no trubs understanding them......in NZ the Kiwi language is pretty much neutral which explains the 'language ear'....anyway those guys are funny even when they don't talk....:gob:

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah Skiddy, ya may have been the fastest sperm but ya still a wee sperm in your old mans scrotum when it comes to lingo.......

[ManDownUnder]

Get Dover, Boomer and Vicki at the pub. Funny as fuck, but can't understand a word they say.

That's the hallucigens dude - nothing to do with accents LOL


Hey Mark, the big problems is that English is actually a very difficult language to learn "properly". The number of stupid rules are just rediculous.

Consider "wind". It's actually 2 words (the breeze, and to wind something up). There is a pile of others too but it's early so - yaaa let me off.

[SARGE]

Mark...

Question for you what is your second language?



hell.. whats his first?

[janno]

hell.. whats his first?

Giggle! As in "thier"?

Haven't travelled through a non-english country yet, but when I do I hope people treat me kindly . . .

My dreadful Aunt is a classic, when she's talking to a non-enlish speaker, she shouts louder. Makes her easier to understand, donch know . . . :shit:

[Grahameeboy]

That's the hallucigens dude - nothing to do with accents LOL


Hey Mark, the big problems is that English is actually a very difficult language to learn "properly". The number of stupid rules are just rediculous.

Consider "wind". It's actually 2 words (the breeze, and to wind something up). There is a pile of others too but it's early so - yaaa let me off.

That's right....take a simple example

Town spelt 'Brewood' is actually pronounced 'Brude'.......Gloucestershire...even some Kiwi's get it wrong.

I lived in Caterham...pronounced 'Catram'.......

Even Graham.......'H' is missing and an Asian will pronounce 'Greyham'.....

Then there is 'Gold Watch', 'Apples and Pears'........eek

[007XX]

One of the thirst things that seems to throw people off is the lack of corelation between the phonetix of the words and its actual spelling...

My boy gets forever confused and expects to write simply things like: their, there, they're....

It seems simple to me, but for the poor little sprog, coming to terms with it is slow progress...

[janno]

How many languages do you speak V?

My brother's wife is bulgarian and is fluent in FIVE languages!!! :gob:

Which she said was not unusual for europeans.

[NighthawkNZ]

Makes me wonder what the first language is of KBers???

bikey petrol head england langage... wot else... :innocent:

[Conquiztador]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....

this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR!

anyways this is lily's profile...dear god...

I was a nurse in China,and worked in hospital ten years. My lifestyle is fit and healthy. I love sporting and outdoor activites.
I'm a honest,gentle,caring and understanding woman,interests in spend time with my darling to travel,dancing,singing,take picture,going out for dinner,watching a DVD in home. I really enjoy to look after my darling and cook for my family


hmmm maybe i could make a good little housewife out of her?

Dear Mr SkidMark (I think is brown type??)

I read this on KB. This after you send me message saying you like me nice horny talk.This after you sent me message saying you like to meet me and fukifuki. You not wery nice man.

I want you to give back money I give to you for your sick mum. I now need money to bring over five brothers who all want to meet you very much.

I also want back pink scooter I send to you so you can come visit.

Why you do this to me after I wery nice and say small cock is OK?

I now understand why you tell me you have no luck on AdultDating.

Lily from China (Who speak a language you not know: Language of love)

[Oakie]

English is apparantly one of the hardest languages to learn with all the irregular verbs, odd pluralisations and other bizarre parts of speech.

[inlinefour]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....

this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR!

anyways this is lily's profile...dear god...

I was a nurse in China,and worked in hospital ten years. My lifestyle is fit and healthy. I love sporting and outdoor activites.
I'm a honest,gentle,caring and understanding woman,interests in spend time with my darling to travel,dancing,singing,take picture,going out for dinner,watching a DVD in home. I really enjoy to look after my darling and cook for my family


hmmm maybe i could make a good little housewife out of her?

She sounds like my type of woman. I can be nursed by her and in turn she can be nursed by me...:love:

[Skyryder]

Seen 'worse' spelling from those whose first language is English. Looks like a scam to me.

Skyryder

[BIGBOSSMAN]

That's right....take a simple example

Town spelt 'Brewood' is actually pronounced 'Brude'.......Gloucestershire...even some Kiwi's get it wrong.

I lived in Caterham...pronounced 'Catram'.......

Even Graham.......'H' is missing and an Asian will pronounce 'Greyham'.....

Then there is 'Gold Watch', 'Apples and Pears'........eek

Or Frome in Somerset - pronounced 'Froom'. Worcester - pronounced 'Wooster'. And there are endless examples or words that sound the same phonetically, but are spelt differently. Their/there, effect/affect, mechinery/machinery, canvas/canvass etc. They are called homophones. Actually my girl is from Germany and speaks 3 languages fluently (German/English/Russian) + a bit of French. I speak English only, but luckily am totally conversant in the language of love:D

[BuFfY]

I am teaching at the mo and have a lot of ESOL students. Their writing is sometimes hard to understand as they miss out words and sometimes use the wrong word to describe something.
But then I have an english boy (only whitey in my class) who can't even get his letters and numbers around the right way, let alone form a sentence!!

The ESOL teacher at our school is totally amazing though and helps the kiddies a lot!

[rudolph]

I love my misses bad inglish

[Skyryder]

I am teaching at the mo and have a lot of ESOL students. Their writing is sometimes hard to understand as they miss out words and sometimes use the wrong word to describe something.
But then I have an english boy (only whitey in my class) who can't even get his letters and numbers around the right way, let alone form a sentence!!

The ESOL teacher at our school is totally amazing though and helps the kiddies a lot!


Dyslexia. Had that problem myself when I was younger but it can be overcome.

Agoraphobia is in many ways not unlike Dyslexia. Where Dyslexia is a left right thing, Agoraphobia can manifest itself through an up down problem. Both are caused by spatial disorientation. Don't have these problems now but once I did. Not nice.

Skyryder

[Beemer]

this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR![/SIZE]

I rest my case! What do you expect on a site like this? Intelligence as well as beauty - yeah, right!

I bet if you met her in the pub and she was hot, you wouldn't give a shit what her English was like so don't be a fucking hypocrite!

And I could also say "pot, kettle, black" - like YOUR English is perfect?

[imdying]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....The bigger question is why a wanker like you can't be taught it for his first language...

[xwhatsit]

The bigger question is why a wanker like you can't be taught it for his first language...

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>That's true -- I was quite amused to see SkidMark's post had (no, I'm serious) far worse grammar and spelling than the text he was ranting about.

[Crasherfromwayback]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....


[/SIZE]

How's your Cantonese Noodle Knob?

I've got a lovely wee Chinese flatmate, she's only been here for three years.
Her grasp of the English lanuage is already better than yours.

[Swoop]

I want you to give back my money I give to you for your sick mum. Lily from China
It's all above board. The VFR restoration has the highest importance! Nothing to see here! Move along!

Seen 'worse' spelling from those whose first language is English.
Most of this thread requires a thorough beating with a dictionary!

[kro]

How many languages do you speak SkidMark?.

[skidMark]

What, like capital letters, brackets and question marks? I take it you're not a native English speaker or you never went to school yourself?
.

So you won't mind me saying you're a complete fuckwit then?


i don't give a shit about grammer...do you say commars and full stops out loud in real life?, i mean leaving in all the words is a great thing to do

[skidMark]

i guess it's just the way they are taught i dunno all she had to do was put in the simple words though i wasnt digging at her as such just wondering why they are taught in a way that little words get left out, do they not have words similar in thier language that they can put into english, is that why they are not there.

i was not digging into asian people whatsoever but just wondering why the above stated is not put into place.

and my second language is german.

did it for 3 years back in school....but i stopped using it and have forgotten most of it now, sucks really.

i should've done japanese lol.

[skidMark]

English is apparantly one of the hardest languages to learn with all the irregular verbs, odd pluralisations and other bizarre parts of speech.

the answer i was looking for

thankingyou you very muchly.

[Dave Lobster]

How many languages do you speak SkidMark?.

I speak enough languages to survive in an English speaking nation.

If I moved to a Spanish speaking nation, I would learn Spanish.

If I moved to a Chinese speaking nation, I would learn Chinese.

Why do people move here without bothering to learn the language?

[Grahameeboy]

I speak enough languages to survive in an English speaking nation.

If I moved to a Spanish speaking nation, I would learn Spanish.

Spanish is not that easy because the grammar does not run like English....like 'I go to the shops' is "The shops I go to' or thereabouts...but would you learn to speak first or learn as you got there remembering that English may well be a second language for a lot of Spaniards so you could easily get by compared to an Asian moving here for eg.

If I moved to a Chinese speaking nation, I would learn Chinese.

Probably quite difficult which is why they struggle with English

Why do people move here without bothering to learn the language?

They don't necessarily move here because of the language. Like a lot of immigrants, Brits included, they tend to move to areas where their own kind live so language is not immediately important, however, I had to prove I could speak English so I imagine they have to speak some English but learning to speak English in a classroom and then understanding English in the real world is quite different.

...........................

[Dave Lobster]

Like a lot of immigrants, Brits included, they tend to move to areas where their own kind live

Strange.. I've not met any other ex brits where I live. If I'd have wanted to live surrounded by brits, I'd have moved to Spain!

[BIGBOSSMAN]

I speak enough languages to survive in an English speaking nation.

If I moved to a Spanish speaking nation, I would learn Spanish.

If I moved to a Chinese speaking nation, I would learn Chinese.

Why do people move here without bothering to learn the language?

Fair call, but you'd hardly expect immigrants to arrive armed with our peculiar 'brand' of the English language, with its jingoisms and slang - kiwiana et al.
Maybe she's still in the throes of getting to grips with English, and needs a spotty young biker to help her with his mother tongue :drool:

[Grahameeboy]

Strange.. I've not met any other ex brits where I live. If I'd have wanted to live surrounded by brits, I'd have moved to Spain!


Haha....Devonport is full of them......was just illustrating...a lot of South Africans live Browns Bay way.....not saying they all stick together, just making a point...............troller:yes:

Anyway I have not met an ex Brits either.......

So if you move to Spain you will not have to learn Spanish............thanks dfor confirming my point :gob::innocent:

[Dave Lobster]

So if you move to Spain you will not have to learn Spanish............thanks dfor confirming my point :gob::innocent:

Only if I was a vermin brit who'd sold his ex council house.. No thanks.

And I wont be moving to Devonport now..

[McJim]

I dunno about the rest of you immigrants but I continually laugh my arse off when kiwis pop out to the local milk products manufacturing plant to buy a pack of smokes? WTF?

Seriously folks a Dairy is a big factory with 'Fonterra' written on the side.

The 'Dairys' have a name in the english language. It's called a shop. Difficult I know but practice and you'll get it eventually. :rofl:

Mark - you're a bit intolerant given your own shortcomings. I have shortcomings too but I am not so intolerant.

Grow up please.

[Sanx]

As we're on the subject of the English language, here's a little trivia question for y'all:

What's the only word in the English language that changes pronounciation when you capitalise the first letter?

And translated for skidMark:

whats theonly wrd in the english langauge dat changes pronun ... pronoin pronouns ... how it sounds when u make the fisrt letter big

[McJim]

As we're on the subject of the English language, here's a little trivia question for y'all:

What's the only word in the English language that changes pronounciation when you capitalise the first letter?

And translated for skidMark:

whats theonly wrd in the english langauge dat changes pronun ... pronoin pronouns ... how it sounds when u make the fisrt letter big

scone (Skonn) Scone (Scoone)...or is there another?

[boomer]

Get Dover, Boomer and Vicki at the pub. Funny as fuck, but can't understand a word they say.

Funny you should say that, you're too polite to say pardon, what or say again... i think i'm getting old and going deaf cos i keep asking Vicki wtf she said . and we're from about 30 minutes of each other. Drew wasn't so polite in Taupo tho.. everything i said he replied.. I have no idea what the **** you just said! made for an interesting night!


That's the hallucigens dude - nothing to do with accents LOL

What ya trying to say? .:mellow:

[Grahameeboy]

Only if I was a vermin brit who'd sold his ex council house.. No thanks.

And I wont be moving to Devonport now..

Ok................................not much to complain about here

[boomer]

Only if I was a vermin brit who'd sold his ex council house.. No thanks.

And I wont be moving to Devonport now..

i lived in a council house.... and by the looks of it so did/do you :nono:

[skidMark]

As we're on the subject of the English language, here's a little trivia question for y'all:

What's the only word in the English language that changes pronounciation when you capitalise the first letter?

And translated for skidMark:

whats theonly wrd in the english langauge dat changes pronun ... pronoin pronouns ... how it sounds when u make the fisrt letter big

You smartarse sack of shit, I have full NCEA level 3 english you cock.

I just choose on this site to relax it down, as opposed to being like Hitcher and wasting time being precise.

Is that better you homosexualually orientated male?

Fuck up.

SM.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You smartarse sack of shit, I have full NCEA level 3 english you cock.

I just choose on this site to relax it down, as opposed to being like Hitcher and wasting time being precise.

Is that better you homosexualually orientated male?

Fuck up.

SM.

And you're actually a nuclear physicist right?

[skidMark]

You cunts take any oppotunity you can to dig into me.

It's ok though it's the story of my fucking life.

Anybody else hear that violen.

[Beemer]

You cunts take any oppotunity you can to dig into me.

It's ok though it's the story of my fucking life.

Anybody else hear that violen.

Sorry, but I don't think anyone's digging into you right now! :violin::lol::lol::lol:

[Cr1MiNaL]

You cunts take any oppotunity you can to dig into me.

It's ok though it's the story of my fucking life.

Anybody else hear that violen.


Yo Mark, Dontcha b worrin about peeps diggin inta ya bro, take it wid a pinch of salt. I still love ya. :drinknsin:grouphug:

But regarding the issue u brought up, I understand this 'thing' about not being able to speak the native language correctly, it can get annoying, but then the more countries uve lived in the more u realise that english is what u make of it. who speaks the best english? ( even this statement might sound correct to someones ears but technically is incorrect use of the superlative). u decide. Dont fret mate even kiwis Ive met bemuse me with their use of certain terminologies (no offence meant here merely sighting an e.g). Like "asian" to describe people from chinese and/or japanese origins. little do they know how funny this sounds to someone from overseas as they are discounting the fact that asia is a huge continent and they prolly missed out about 2 billion people somewhere along the way... but hey thats the way it is. So just smile back and try ur best to b understood.

Raj.

[Conquiztador]

You cunts take any oppotunity you can to dig into me.

It's ok though it's the story of my fucking life.

Anybody else hear that violen.

You did the digging of that grave your self. Did you somehow think that KB was filled with white skin clones who all hated immigrants that did not look or sound the same?

Once you get out in the real world you are in for a shock. Luckily for you there is good medication available today.

My suggestion for changing that "stroy of my life": Become more open minded, count to ten before you say something and move away from Howick that tends to have an issue with Asian immigrants. If you don't, then your opinion will not be yours but that of your parents and the racist mates of yours.

[McJim]

You cunts take any oppotunity you can to dig into me.

It's ok though it's the story of my fucking life.

Anybody else hear that violen.

Actually Mark we don't. It's you that GIVES us the opportunity. The problem is that too often you choose to slag someone off about something that many here have found you guilty of too often before.

In this case you've chosen to have a go about written English and there are too many examples from you of poorly constructed written English.

Then there are times where you have a go at people's riding skills yet most people here have many experiences of you making poor judgements on two wheels.

Why don't you start an informative thread that doesn't have a go at anyone at all? You'd be surprised at the positive responses you'll get.

It's quite easy.

[scracha]

So you won't mind me saying you're a complete fuckwit then?

Apologies Mark. I received my first official warning from the moderators about this post. In my defence :-
1) You did say you didn't really care what we thought of you.
2) I never actually said you're a complete fuckwit, I was polite enough to ask you if you minded me saying it first.

It seems that it's ok to be racist and homophobic on the forums though.

[avgas]

How many people speak fluent Maori, considering it is a second language in NZ and we are taught it for a minimum 5 years at school?

[avgas]

i don't give a shit about grammer...do you say commars and full stops out loud in real life?, i mean leaving in all the words is a great thing to do

Do you say all English words phonetically?

[imdying]

How many people speak fluent Maori, considering it is a second language in NZ and we are taught it for a minimum 5 years at school?Really? They teach it to you for 5 years now? But what the? It's a dead language?!!? It's like teaching us how to grind grain by hand... a neat trick I'm sure, but of zero use to anyone. There's a limited amount of time to be teaching kids when they're at their most receptive, and we waste it teaching them that?!!

[imdying]

I have full NCEA level 3 english you cock.I think that says more about NCEA than it does about you... seriously, go cut your wrists, in a longways motions. Please.

[Sanx]

You smartarse sack of shit, I have full NCEA level 3 english you cock.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is as damning an indictment of the current education system as you're going to find.


And you're actually a nuclear physicist right?

Nah, he's a brain surgeon. The nuclear physics and rocket science are just hobbies.


scone (Skonn) Scone (Scoone)...or is there another?

That's just the Scots being unable to pronounce things. Or it could be I just hadn't heard of that one; though it's arguable that 'Scone' is a place name rather than a word you'd find in the dictionary (Scrabble rules).

[shcabbeh]

At work I get customers transferred to me if the rep can't (or say they can't) understand them. When they're put through I don't have a problem with dealing with them, you just have to listen a little closer to what they're saying.

I have a feeling some of this lack of understanding on the rep's part is put down to prejudice. They have no problem sharing their opinion with me on the particular customer's nationality/stereotype. It's not that they don't understand them, they just don't put the effort in due to that prejudice, I think.

It may also be partly due to their own failure to fully grasp the language they speak. Not understanding means a lack of proper communication which INCLUDES the listener. It's easy to understand your mates when they're drunk and spewing colloquial shit about your day because you want to. If you want to understand someone it's a lot easier to than if you approach it with stereotype poised.

Anyway, I think the moral of the story is uhhhh...stay in school. Hur.

[Dave Lobster]

i lived in a council house.... and by the looks of it so did/do you :nono:

Nope... But I think you missed my point entirely. :shutup:

[Hitcher]

Why can't people be taught proper english as thier second language
why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....

I don't know where to start really. Let's start with "why can't people be taught proper English as their first language?"

Grammar tip du jour: An ellipsis has only three dots. Not four or, as most people seem to use, seven. An ellipsis has only three dots.

[boomer]

Nope... But I think you missed my point entirely. :shutup:

no i saw your point, i picked up on this one because its a gross generalization as is my suggestion; based on the fact you've got a gut and tatts and possible a bald heeed.

it was an attempt at showing how ironic your statement was.

[RantyDave]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....
Oh! Sneaking it in, just before the deadline ... skidMark's astoundingly strong entry for Troll of the Month for June 2007. Well done.

Dave

[Beemer]

At work I get customers transferred to me if the rep can't (or say they can't) understand them. When they're put through I don't have a problem with dealing with them, you just have to listen a little closer to what they're saying.

I have a feeling some of this lack of understanding on the rep's part is put down to prejudice. They have no problem sharing their opinion with me on the particular customer's nationality/stereotype. It's not that they don't understand them, they just don't put the effort in due to that prejudice, I think.

I agree. I worked doing quality assurance at a national call centre a few years ago and that involved taping the operators' calls and then marking them against set criteria. There was one Maori woman who obvioulsy loathed Indians and unfortunately for her, every time I taped her, she got at least one Indian caller. She was so totally obnoxious it was unbelievable. One guy spoke excellent English (better than hers if the truth be known), albeit with a strong accent, and she kept saying "I don't understand what you are saying, can you please get someone who speaks English?" He would clearly repeat what he wanted and she would just say "I can't understand you, call back when you can speak English" and hang up. She even said to one guy "are you thick or something?" Can you imagine the outcry if she, as a Maori, was treated this way?

A lot of it comes down to ignorance and bad experiences and I am sure everyone here is guilty of it at some time. I have had nothing but lovely dealings with German people so I tend to think they are all nice (I bet they aren't!), and after our experience living next to an open Brethren family, I actually scowl whenever I see one of their kind in town. But I certainly don't think people who don't speak perfect English are thick. I interviewed a professor last week who had a strong accent and the only thing I noticed was he emphasised different parts of words - for example he would say (I'll try and do this phonetically) 'L-ter-natives' rather than 'alt-urna-tivs' which is how most of us would pronounce alternatives. And he kept catching me out with the word digestability, which he pronounced as 'di-ge-stability' with the emphasis on 'stability'. It was only when checking my notes against the tape that I picked up he was saying digestability and not stability. But I'd bet everything I own that he is a hell of a lot more intelligent and qualified in his specialist field than I am, whether or not I speak clearer English!

[Brian d marge]

A Hawwww a hawww Hey Cleetus they all are a talking about us


Stephen

[scracha]

yukuri itte wo kudasai bakka gaikojin

Seriously though, what has coming from a "council estate" got to do with being able to communicate properly. I was a "schemie" and always will be.

[RantyDave]

she would just say "I can't understand you, call back when you can speak English" and hang up. She even said to one guy "are you thick or something?"
Did she get fired? (this is almost a rhetorical question)

I have had nothing but lovely dealings with German people so I tend to think they are all nice
Likewise, they seem fine to me.

Dave

[Beemer]

Did she get fired? (this is almost a rhetorical question)

You must be joking! I fully expected her to get a bollocking but month after month, the calls I recorded were no different. I am not sure if she is still working there now but she got away with it while I was there, despite every report I did on her marking her way down for her politeness. I also made additional comments that she seemed to have a problem with Indian callers but I was told to stop that. Makes you wonder why you bother!

[Krusti]

I appreciate the fact that many new comers to NZ take some time to come to grips with the Kiwi language but who is the idiot that keeps giving them the job of taking orders at KFC and BK drive throughs?

[Hitcher]

I appreciate the fact that many new comers to NZ take some time to come to grips with the Kiwi language but who is the idiot that keeps giving them the job of taking orders at KFC and BK drive throughs?

You will probably find that these organisations have some sort of non-discriminatory equal opportunities-type policy that prevents them from discriminating against people they hire and then in terms of how they are deployed. Unfortunately they haven't then done a reality check of this policy against their desired customer service experience.

[peasea]

I don't know where to start really. Let's start with "why can't people be taught proper English as their first language?"

Grammar tip du jour: An ellipsis has only three dots. Not four or, as most people seem to use, seven. An ellipsis has only three dots.

I knew a bloke who had ellipsis, when he threw a fit you couldn't understand him either.

[Virago]

...Grammar tip du jour: An ellipsis has only three dots. Not four or, as most people seem to use, seven. An ellipsis has only three dots.

Except when the sun is ellipsised by the moon, it becomes one large dot...:dodge:

[SARGE]

I dunno about the rest of you immigrants but I continually laugh my arse off when kiwis pop out to the local milk products manufacturing plant to buy a pack of smokes? WTF?

Seriously folks a Dairy is a big factory with 'Fonterra' written on the side.




10 smokes and a 40

[SARGE]

blah blah blah blah blah wank wank wank wank wank

Fuck up.

SM.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hIdI5NUEk4

[shcabbeh]

You will probably find that these organisations have some sort of non-discriminatory equal opportunities-type policy that prevents them from discriminating against people they hire and then in terms of how they are deployed. Unfortunately they haven't then done a reality check of this policy against their desired customer service experience.

Yeah, it's the same with Pizza Hut. Most of our drivers are OK, but there are some that are particularly bad with customer service (mostly in the Tauranga and Christchurch areas).

The only thing that'd change it is if there was a public outcry and let's face it, not enough people care that much about fast food for that to happen.

Profit is profit. Besides, most people are scared of coming off as racist.

[terbang]

Get Dover, Boomer and Vicki at the pub. Funny as fuck, but can't understand a word they say.

Know the feeling we spent a year in Newcastle! However on the subject of languages, I agree that Kiwi's should speak two or more languages. One of the difficulties I found when learning another language was the fear of screwing it up and making a dick of yerself. When I was living in Switzerland the germanics there would allways sternly correct you when yo didn't get it right, thus prohibiting the learning process. Where it was the opposite in Indonesia as they were really encouraging of those giving their tongue a try and let you learn by your own mistakes over time. The odd smirk told me I wasn't getting it right, encouraging me to ask. The asian way versus the german way perhaps, but needless to say my Indonesian flourished in leaps and bounds compared to what my German had.

[scracha]

I appreciate the fact that many new comers to NZ take some time to come to grips with the Kiwi language but who is the idiot that keeps giving them the job of taking orders at KFC and BK drive throughs?

I'm glad you said Kiwi language. Maybe they should give them a test in how to speak poor English in an awsumley speeshally feshion bro.

[scumdog]

I'm glad you said Kiwi language. Maybe they should give them a test in how to speak poor English in an awsumley speeshally feshion bro.


That last bit would have to be one of the more accurate assesments of the NZ accent, most words with the letter 'a' in them (more so as a first letter) could easily have an 'e' instead without affecting the NZ pronounciation.

"Ectuelly Oi nevah aks to borrow your ex for this efternoon, it was moi brotha Elen thet wanted it"

It's bad enough when axe comes out as 'ex' but 'aks' for ask? Give me strength!!

[onearmedbandit]

I nkow I had difficulty in Australia when I was over tere. Not as much as Japan though.

[Marmoot]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....

this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR!

anyways this is lily's profile...dear god...

I was a nurse in China,and worked in hospital ten years. My lifestyle is fit and healthy. I love sporting and outdoor activites.
I'm a honest,gentle,caring and understanding woman,interests in spend time with my darling to travel,dancing,singing,take picture,going out for dinner,watching a DVD in home. I really enjoy to look after my darling and cook for my family


hmmm maybe i could make a good little housewife out of her?

Her English is equal if not better than yours.

[roogazza]

Really? They teach it to you for 5 years now? But what the? It's a dead language?!!? It's like teaching us how to grind grain by hand... a neat trick I'm sure, but of zero use to anyone. There's a limited amount of time to be teaching kids when they're at their most receptive, and we waste it teaching them that?!!

I thought we were still writing it up for them ? What is it, make it up as you go along ??? Gaz.

[skidMark]

Get Dover, Boomer and Vicki at the pub. Funny as fuck, but can't understand a word they say.

You can never quite understand what a pikey is saying

It's not english, it's not irish. It's just pikish.

[skidMark]

Oh! Sneaking it in, just before the deadline ... skidMark's astoundingly strong entry for Troll of the Month for June 2007. Well done.

Dave

you observe wisely young grasshopper

[Swoop]

I'm glad you said Kiwi language. Maybe they should give them a test in how to speak poor English in an awsumley speeshally feshion bro.
Did I detect a hint of rising inflection at the end of that???
Well done! :niceone:

[idb]

Haven't travelled through a non-english country yet, but when I do I hope people treat me kindly . . .



Heh!
I have recently come back from a tour through Western Europe.
Before I left home I took some time to learn a bit of Italian and I thought that I'd get by on my remnants of schoolboy French (I also bought a couple of phrase-books)....as for English well....there's no English-speaking countries north of the Equator anyway.....

My fragile ego was dealt regular blows when, having said nothing more than "hello" in my best version of whatever language I was trying to communicate in, the foreign-type person would almost invariably talk back to me in English.

[idb]

Dyslexia. Had that problem myself when I was younger but it can be overcome.

Agoraphobia is in many ways not unlike Dyslexia. Where Dyslexia is a left right thing, Agoraphobia can manifest itself through an up down problem. Both are caused by spatial disorientation. Don't have these problems now but once I did. Not nice.

Skyryder

Hmmmm don't be so sure....I've seen the way you dress yourself....

[idb]

At the risk of high-jacking SM's thought-provoking thread I have a burning question.

If Polynesian languages had no written form, why, when the clever Colonials came to put them down on paper did they not simply spell them phonetically?
Why is 'wh' said as 'f' in Maori and why is a 'c' in Fijian said as 'th'?!
Why not write Fangarei and Rokothoko....hmmmmmmmmmm????!!!!

[Hitcher]

If Polynesian languages had no written form, why, when the clever Colonials came to put them down on paper did they not simply spell them phonetically?
Why is 'wh' said as 'f' in Maori and why is a 'c' in Fijian said as 'th'?!
Why not write Fangarei and Rokothoko....hmmmmmmmmmm????!!!!

Because New Zealanders have a "dead ear" for the subtleties of how speakers of other languages actually articulate things, is one reason.

New Zealander's diction is, quite frankly, frightful. We should take lessons from (some) South Australians and South Africans. Our use of the dark L is horrendous, and our vowels are cringeworthy. It's largely due to laziness, similar to our approach to written language.

Ear Nuw Zillin (our national air carrier)
Red Buw (a popular caffeinated beverage)
Car puw (a means of commuting where more than one person shares a vehicle)
Dutch dugger (a building contractor with a digging tool)
Spear toire (useful for roadside emergencies)
Ear Force (a branch of the armed services)
Orefuw (Like really bad, like)

[idb]

Because New Zealanders have a "dead ear" for the subtleties of how speakers of other languages actually articulate things, is one reason.

New Zealander's diction is, quite frankly, frightful. We should take lessons from (some) South Australians and South Africans. Our use of the dark L is horrendous, and our vowels are cringeworthy. It's largely due to laziness, similar to our approach to written language.

Ear Nuw Zillin (our national air carrier)
Red Buw (a popular caffeinated beverage)
Car puw (a means of commuting where more than one person shares a vehicle)
Dutch dugger (a building contractor with a digging tool)
Spear toire (useful for roadside emergencies)
Ear Force (a branch of the armed services)
Orefuw (Like really bad, like)

But they surely wouldn't have been Nuw Zillinders at that time.
The local variations and subtleties of pronunciation marking us out as an independent tribe of English-speaking people and of which we are the proud inheritors would still have been in development.

[ManDownUnder]

Because New Zealanders have a "dead ear" for the subtleties of how speakers of other languages actually articulate things, is one reason.

New Zealander's diction is, quite frankly, frightful. We should take lessons from (some) South Australians and South Africans. Our use of the dark L is horrendous, and our vowels are cringeworthy. It's largely due to laziness, similar to our approach to written language.

Ear Nuw Zillin (our national air carrier)
Red Buw (a popular caffeinated beverage)
Car puw (a means of commuting where more than one person shares a vehicle)
Dutch dugger (a building contractor with a digging tool)
Spear toire (useful for roadside emergencies)
Ear Force (a branch of the armed services)
Orefuw (Like really bad, like)

Complete Bollocks
Regional interpretations of any language are simply that interpretations. If anything it makes the interpretation correct (being local) and the foreign (i.e. Queen's English being foistered upon us) the wrong one.

Spell anything phonetically and see how it varies from locale to locale. Does that make any of them wrong?

Nope

Just different. If anyone understands the dynamic of regional language develoment I'd have thought you'd be the guy Hitch.

[Hitcher]

But they surely wouldn't have been Nuw Zillinders at that time.
The local variations and subtleties of pronunciation marking us out as an independent tribe of English-speaking people and of which we are the proud inheritors would still have been in development.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about then, I was talking about now. Whoever originally transcribed Fijian had a better ear than we do.

Fijians don't pronounce the D in Nadi as a hard D, as we do. Rather than somebody concoct a new symbol or character for that sound, they used the same D as we do, but pronounced it differently. There are numberous other tongues besides those of the South Pacific that do similarly, e.g. Spanish's double L, which is pronounced "Yuh" in words such as villa or Guillermo.

Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_language and follow the links.

[ManDownUnder]

Fijians don't pronounce the D in Nadi as a hard D, as we do. Rather than somebody concoct a new symbol or character for that sound, they used the same D as we do, but pronounced it differently. There are numberous other tongues

That's numberous with the silent "b"?

[Hitcher]

Just different. If anyone understands the dynamic of regional language develoment I'd have thought you'd be the guy Hitch.

I have nothing against regional language development, or New Zealanders having their own "twang". I am proud of my Taranaki lilt and would never advocate that we all spoke like the Queen of England. But there is, in my view, a big difference between a "twang" and sloppy mangling. Hardly surprising really as spoken and written English is no longer taught in this country, with a consequence that most folk don't know any better or don't give a fuck, and get extremely agitated by anybody who suggests there should be care and attention given to written and spoken language.

One day in the future, Jorj the Barbarian will want to describe something to his girlfriend Uliss and wish he had more than 50 available grunts, snorts and wheezes.

[Hitcher]

That's numberous with the silent "b"?

Indeed. Like swimming has a silent P...

[ManDownUnder]

I have nothing against regional language development, or New Zealanders having their own "twang". I am proud of my Taranaki lilt and would never advocate that we all spoke like the Queen of England. But there is, in my view, a big difference between a "twang" and sloppy mangling. Hardly surprising really as spoken and written English is no longer taught in this country, with a consequence that most folk don't know any better or don't give a fuck, and get extremely agitated by anybody who suggests there should be care and attention given to written and spoken language.

One day in the future, Jorj the Barbarian will want to describe something to his girlfriend Uliss and wish he had more than 50 available grunts, snorts and wheezes.

All good - we may be in the same book - if not on the same page then. I still have an issue with one or two examples you gave "Dutch Dugger".

"Deetch Deega" perhaps? Depends which side of the "diotch" you're on really doesn't it?

[ManDownUnder]

That's numberous with the silent "b"?

Sir - if I may humbly request a small serving of humble pie. I note (with interest) you were correct in your original use of the word, albeit an obscure one.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/numberous

Live and learn huh?

[007XX]

I, for once, will just :shutup:on this one...

Interesting points you gents are raising, though...I never really looked at it from this angle, as a person for whom english is a second language.

*walking quietly out of the room...*

[MSTRS]

*walking quietly out of the room...*

*Follows with full attention focussed...and returns to the Arse thread*

[ManDownUnder]

I, for once, will just :shutup:on this one...

Interesting points you gents are raising, though...I never really looked at it from this angle, as a person for whom english is a second language.

*walking quietly out of the room...*

No no - you may be just the person ... take the name of your home country. The place of your birth. En Francaise? And In English.

They are the same thing except to the ear, which is exactly my point

[007XX]

*Follows with full attention focussed...and returns to the Arse thread*

You like to watch me leave, don't you?...perv! :laugh:

[Hitcher]

"Deetch Deega" perhaps? Depends which side of the "diotch" you're on really doesn't it?

Definitely other side of the Tesman that one. A dutch dugger is a doughty kiwi chap who knows how to productively wield his implement. A deetch deeger, OTOH, knows how to breast-feed it.

[Hitcher]

as a person for whom english is a second language.

It's refreshing to see an Aucklander finally admit to that one.

[ManDownUnder]

A deetch deeger, OTOH, knows how to breast-feed it.


No idea what you meant by that (seriously) but I enjoyed the visuals...

[avgas]

Indeed. Like swimming has a silent P...
Depends on how big the P is in comparison to the pool. also depends on trajectory to the water (if said persons a first exterior and then enter to proceed swimming).
Over all could be worse if it were a silent crap in swimming.

[avgas]

Definitely other side of the Tesman that one. A dutch dugger is a doughty kiwi chap who knows how to productively wield his implement. A deetch deeger, OTOH, knows how to breast-feed it.
really - up here we just pipejack lol

[007XX]

No no - you may be just the person ... take the name of your home country. The place of your birth. En Francaise? And In English.

They are the same thing except to the ear, which is exactly my point

Oh, absolutely...but as much as I feel fairly eloquent on many subjects, I would certainly struggle to really explain myself on this subject as convincingly as yourself and Hitcher...

You got to know when to leave the Titans battle it out, y'know?

All kidding aside, I would most definitely concur there has been times when pronunciation has been a challenge for me (especially in earlier years in NZ), as starting from not talking a word of english, I took it very seriously to better myself and make sure my command of the language was to be as close to perfect as I could.

I found it very puzzling though when I was trying to help my young son to learn to read properly, and NZ school system no longer uses phonetics...:mellow:

[Hitcher]

No idea what you meant by that (seriously) but I enjoyed the visuals...

Draw a mental picture of how a road-worker leans on their shovel...

[ManDownUnder]

Draw a mental picture of how a road-worker leans on their shovel...

Aaaaa gotcha.. dammit - there goes my boobie picture (http://http://www.noodad.com/cms/images/stories/noogfx/lucy-lawless-breastfeeding-_small1.jpg)....

[007XX]

It's refreshing to see an Aucklander finally admit to that one.

Yes, and as an Aucklander, I found some biologically strange creatures in Wellington...:dodge::laugh:

I wasn't always an Aucklander, but then home is where the heart is...

[Hitcher]

All kidding aside, I would most definitely concur there has been times when pronunciation has been a challenge for me (especially in earlier years in NZ), as starting from not talking a word of english, I took it very seriously to better myself and make sure my command of the language was to be as close to perfect as I could.

Goodness me. If your spoken English is as good as your written English, I am very impressed! What is your mother tongue, and how long have you battled to master English?

And what language do you think and dream in?

[Hitcher]

I found some biologically strange creatures in Wellington...

Hey! I represent that!

[ManDownUnder]

And what language do you think and dream in?

...Kiwibiker... :killingme

[007XX]

Goodness me. If your spoken English is as good as your written English, I am very impressed! What is your mother tongue, and how long have you battled to master English?

And what language do you think and dream in?

Thank you, coming from you that means quite a bit actually.:yes:
Mother tongue is french, am still fluent but I make sure to read as many french books as I can to make sure I don't loose my broader vocabulary.
It's hard to recall how long it took to be comfortable, but I could make myself understood within about 6 months I guess...been in NZ for 13 years now, but my accent still gives me away.

I dream in english now, and definitely think in english. My father teases me I have an english accent when I call him!:laugh:


Hey! I represent that!

Certainly, there are to be exceptions to every rules.:sunny:

[Steam]

I represent that!

Where did that resent/represent mistake originate? Is it a kiwibiker thing or more widespread? I have seen quite a few people doing it but I can't decide whether they are being serious.

[Hitcher]

I have seen quite a few people doing it but I can't decide whether they are being serious.

Good lord man. I am always VERY serious, don't you know?

[jrandom]

Mother tongue is french...

Ah.

I understand, now.

[idb]

You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about then, I was talking about now. Whoever originally transcribed Fijian had a better ear than we do.

Fijians don't pronounce the D in Nadi as a hard D, as we do. Rather than somebody concoct a new symbol or character for that sound, they used the same D as we do, but pronounced it differently. There are numberous other tongues besides those of the South Pacific that do similarly, e.g. Spanish's double L, which is pronounced "Yuh" in words such as villa or Guillermo.

Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_language and follow the links.

But...but...but.........why not just write 'Nandi'????
Then everyone will know how it's pronounced.

European languages have a long history in written form but the Polynesian versions were shiny and new......and they made it complicated!!!!!

Cick Whuckers!!!

[007XX]

Ah.

I understand, now.

Maybe it explains a few aspects of my personnality, but it certainly doesn't sort the whole Sudoku puzzle out...

I guess you'll have to find that out for yourself though...once the thumb is better of course!:innocent:

Anyway, how do you revel in your native language?

[jrandom]

Maybe it explains a few aspects of my personnality...

Fie, fie upon her! There's language in her eye, her cheek, her lip; Nay, her foot speaks.


it certainly doesn't sort the whole Sudoku puzzle out...

Yes, you're a complex individual.

<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:lWpEg0qPZpD-9M:http://justhurd.net/weblog/media/1/20070409-su_doku.jpg" />


Anyway, how do you revel in your native language?

I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me.

[007XX]

I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me.

mmm..really? Funnily enough, I heard differently!:innocent:

[ManDownUnder]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:lWpEg0qPZpD-9M:http://justhurd.net/weblog/media/1/20070409-su_doku.jpg


LMFAO PURE CLASS. I love it - where do you get these from?

[Hitcher]

But...but...but.........why not just write 'Nandi'????
Then everyone will know how it's pronounced.

That would be anglicising it, in the proud tradition of Munich, Florence, Venice, Bombay, Peking and Paris.

[Hitcher]

I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me.

Veritably discombobulated. In an Ursus arctos horribilis kind of way.

[007XX]

Veritably discombobulated. In an Ursus arctos horribilis kind of way.

Oh I like that...I believe I may have found myself a new signature:yes::laugh:

Jrandom, get yourself a new Avatar mate...I eat those!

[idb]

That would be anglicising it, in the proud tradition of Munich, Florence, Venice, Bombay, Peking and Paris.

No....not the same.
They don't reflect the local pronunciation of those places, only the Anglicised versions.
We say Nandi as do the locals.
Maybe Nadi is an early form of TXT?

[jrandom]

Jrandom, get yourself a new Avatar mate...I eat those!

My avatar is a reference to my general level of riding skill, and also to my bike's racing livery. Note the photograph in my profile.

In any case, my little Froschwurst, I should point out that the racial memory of a long line of fat Bavarian merchants is just itching to sneer at your culinary tastes via my keyboard.

Now behave, or I shall taunt you a second time.

[007XX]

My avatar is a reference to my general level of riding skill, and also to my bike's racing livery. Note the photograph in my profile.

In any case, my little Froschwurst, I should point out that the racial memory of a long line of fat Bavarian merchants is just itching to sneer at your culinary tastes via my keyboard.

Now behave, or I shall taunt you a second time.

So...now I get a better picture: a fat bavarian with a performance complex and a bad itch...

Doubled with an overly blown confidence in his own ability to get up people's noses...

mmmm, I liked Hitcher's bear explanation better:innocent:

[jrandom]

a fat bavarian with a performance complex and a bad itch...

You know me far too well already.


mmmm, I liked Hitcher's bear explanation better

My needs are simple and few...

<img src="http://www.craft-stop.com/images/Pooh_and_the_Hunny_Pot.JPG" />

[007XX]

My needs are simple and few...

<img src="http://www.craft-stop.com/images/Pooh_and_the_Hunny_Pot.JPG" />

Now, that's an unfair shot...I love Winny the Pooh!:laugh:

Guess I'm not the only simple equation then...

[peasea]

why is it asians and others i'm sure learn a language and leave out crucial bits....

this is from nzdating, dnt give me shit about it cus i really dnt care what u lot think of me most of the time it's, 430 am i can't sleep and i'm grumpy so RAR!

anyways this is lily's profile...dear god...

I was a nurse in China,and worked in hospital ten years. My lifestyle is fit and healthy. I love sporting and outdoor activites.
I'm a honest,gentle,caring and understanding woman,interests in spend time with my darling to travel,dancing,singing,take picture,going out for dinner,watching a DVD in home. I really enjoy to look after my darling and cook for my family


hmmm maybe i could make a good little housewife out of her?

Or you could put in her in a blender and feed her to your cat.

[avgas]

Or you could put in her in a blender and feed her to your cat.

Would green rep ya but i am supposed to share the love

[_Shrek_]

English is not an easy language for all Asians to learn because it is not a natural pronounciation for them so takes time.

Why not make Chinese a second language as there are probably as many chinese as there are English speaking people.

Generalsiing I know but it seems that Kiwi's are not very patience when listening to a foreign language.

I have a German friend who I can understand clearly (okay I know them) and she spoke great English but her work still told her to take extra lessons.

I have been at a party where a Glasgow lad was chatting away and the Kiwi's looked bemused.

With Asians it is just a case of changing the way we say things.....they understand if you make it less complicated.

what realy gets up me Grahameeboy is the fact that every one that moves over here for a new way of life and then expects us to change our way of speaking, thinking and living to accommodate them
well :finger: if that is what is expexted if you all don't like the way we do things you all have the right to leave :wavey:

[Grahameeboy]

what realy gets up me Grahameeboy is the fact that every one that moves over here for a new way of life and then expects us to change our way of speaking, thinking and living to accommodate them
well :finger: if that is what is expexted if you all don't like the way we do things you all have the right to leave :wavey:

I am not sure I agree.........NZ seems to want to be cosmopolitan so NZ has to adjust as well.......the only way to help them aclimatise is to help them not turn away because we are too up our own arses.

You cannot expect an Asian to aclimatise as quickly as say an English European / American immigrant will.....we should try and befriend not defend.

As a nation NZ sometimes seems very impatient at times.

[Zuki Bandit]

I like the "Take Picture" bit.

[Grahameeboy]

I like the "Take Picture" bit.

...and it's goodnight from him and goodnight from me.........

[Hitcher]

As a nation NZ sometimes seems very inpatient at times.

Would you prefer we were more outpatient?

[_Shrek_]

I am not sure I agree.........NZ seems to want to be cosmopolitan so NZ has to adjust as well.......the only way to help them aclimatise is to help them not turn away because we are too up our own arses.

You cannot expect an Asian to aclimatise as quickly as say an English European / American immigrant will.....we should try and befriend not defend.

As a nation NZ sometimes seems very impatient at times.


I was out riding today with some of the guys i meet on here one of them was welsh and he had to prove he could speak english before he could entre NZ and so did three dutch freinds of ours... so if they had to then why the hell can't the rest of the imports that are coming... in in stead of us having to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ of our taxs just so we can accommadate them
and further more when we were riding down the waimakariri river we stopped for a leak two of the boys went to use the toilets and found that our oriental friends had had a dump on the floor instead
so why shoudn't we be impatient :mad:

[Sanx]

I'm sorry, GB, you're wrong on this one. People who choose to live in a country other than the one they were born in should make an effort to fit in to that country's culture. This includes learning the language. Many asians who move here simply have no intention of learning English to anything more than a rudimentary degree. They stay within Asian-only social groups, and can get by simply speaking Mandarin (or whatever their mother tongue happens to be). They're friends all speak it, the people they do business with all speak it; why should they bother learning English.

And, unfortunately, the Chinese especially have a bit of a reputation in this regard. Rather like ultra-orthodox Jews and Muslims, they don't want to integrate. Why do you think so many cities in the world have a China-town? It's the place where Chinese immigrants went to live, as everyone around them shared the same culture and language. You don't see an Indian-town do you? Sure, there are areas that traditionally have a large Indian population but for the most part, they integrate far more whilst still retaining their own culture and language.

I used to live in one of the ultra-orthodox jewish areas of Manchester. There were shops that had only Hebrew on the windows. The natives were highly unfriendly; and you could quite easily see why Jews have a tendency to be resented wherever they end up. On the other hand, just down the road was a big Indian / Pakistani / Muslim area. All the shops were bright and welcoming. Only English on the windows, apart from the odd sign that read Halal Meat in arabic, for instance. Everyone spoke English to a greater or lesser degree. You might, as a pasty anglo-saxon, have still felt out of place but you were always welcomed. In the Jewish area? Yeah. Right. If you didn't have a skull cap, tassels under your clothes and a stupid beard, you were about as welcome as a pig-roast at a bar-mitzvah and the natives certainly made sure you were aware of this.

(and before someone accuses me of being anti-semitic - as Jews have a tendency to do whenever someone criticises other Jews - my bar-mitzvah was on Shabbat Haggadol, 26th March 1988)

There's a very old saying; when in Rome, do as the Romans. Unfortunately, most groups who now come to NZ expect the Romans to learn their language and make allowances for their customs and beliefs rather than the other way round. There are now councils in the UK who are translating documents into 27 different languages. Vast sums of money are being poured into cultural awareness courses; in one case, some misguided cultural advisor publically criticised a social services worker who reported a family for carrying out female circumcision on their teenage girl. Apparently, this was not culturally sensitive.

I'm sorry, but when in New Zealand, the only culture that should be given the slightest importance is New Zealand culture. No-one else's.

[Hitcher]

There are long-standing members of our community who spectacularly fail to "integrate", irrespective of their country of origin.

People who abuse their children, manufacture and distribute P, sexually molest their kids or others' kids who they abduct for their personal pleasure, people who drive while under the affluence of incohol, others who break into the homes of the defenceless and do unthinkable things to them. Not to mention redneck vigilantes. Given a choice between these fine upstanding citizens and a bunch of Chinese who speak Mandarin and who only deal with other Chinese, I know where my preference lies.

[Brian d marge]

Ahaa Soo Cleatus San Dey ahh still ah talking bout us ,,,,

Cleatus San how your Legneck it ah stil a leg. You musta seek honarable Docata to ahh make it ahh white

Den you can wok in fild with Farma san


Stephen San

[Grahameeboy]

I'm sorry, GB, you're wrong on this one. People who choose to live in a country other than the one they were born in should make an effort to fit in to that country's culture. This includes learning the language. Many asians who move here simply have no intention of learning English to anything more than a rudimentary degree. They stay within Asian-only social groups, and can get by simply speaking Mandarin (or whatever their mother tongue happens to be). They're friends all speak it, the people they do business with all speak it; why should they bother learning English.

And, unfortunately, the Chinese especially have a bit of a reputation in this regard. Rather like ultra-orthodox Jews and Muslims, they don't want to integrate. Why do you think so many cities in the world have a China-town? It's the place where Chinese immigrants went to live, as everyone around them shared the same culture and language. You don't see an Indian-town do you? Sure, there are areas that traditionally have a large Indian population but for the most part, they integrate far more whilst still retaining their own culture and language.

I used to live in one of the ultra-orthodox jewish areas of Manchester. There were shops that had only Hebrew on the windows. The natives were highly unfriendly; and you could quite easily see why Jews have a tendency to be resented wherever they end up. On the other hand, just down the road was a big Indian / Pakistani / Muslim area. All the shops were bright and welcoming. Only English on the windows, apart from the odd sign that read Halal Meat in arabic, for instance. Everyone spoke English to a greater or lesser degree. You might, as a pasty anglo-saxon, have still felt out of place but you were always welcomed. In the Jewish area? Yeah. Right. If you didn't have a skull cap, tassels under your clothes and a stupid beard, you were about as welcome as a pig-roast at a bar-mitzvah and the natives certainly made sure you were aware of this.

(and before someone accuses me of being anti-semitic - as Jews have a tendency to do whenever someone criticises other Jews - my bar-mitzvah was on Shabbat Haggadol, 26th March 1988)

There's a very old saying; when in Rome, do as the Romans. Unfortunately, most groups who now come to NZ expect the Romans to learn their language and make allowances for their customs and beliefs rather than the other way round. There are now councils in the UK who are translating documents into 27 different languages. Vast sums of money are being poured into cultural awareness courses; in one case, some misguided cultural advisor publically criticised a social services worker who reported a family for carrying out female circumcision on their teenage girl. Apparently, this was not culturally sensitive.

I'm sorry, but when in New Zealand, the only culture that should be given the slightest importance is New Zealand culture. No-one else's.

Just a different view...............I had to proove I could speak English too...mind you I am a Londoner....and I was waiting to get my NZ licence and there was some gezzer with a translator....did it bother me "No".

I guess I come from a Country where immigrants stay together....it is only natural...like there are heaps of Brits in Devonport, just a few South Africans and Zimbarbians along the hibiscus coast and I guess there are a lot of Kiwi's in London who never leave London to see the culture.

I have been here 9 years, deal with a lot of Asians whose English is not great but I manage...do you honestly expect Asians, Chinese with a long history of Culture i.e. longer than Kiwi's to become Kiwi's overnight......but the next generation will.

A lot of Asians contribute a lot to the community and to the Govts coffers

China Towns are very popular with non Chinapeople. Bling lotta tourist with plenty money......Indians, well they tend to settle in there own areas.

And as Hitcher says the NZ culture is not great so I guess it must be alright for Asians to abuse their kids because they are just doing as the 'Kiwi's' do.

At the end of the day what real harm do they do and what harm is done by lack of 'patience'

Ivory towers and all that.

:done:

[Marmoot]

I'm sorry, GB, you're wrong on this one. People who choose to live in a country other than the one they were born in should make an effort to fit in to that country's culture. This includes learning the language.....

There's a very old saying; when in Rome, do as the Romans. Unfortunately, most groups who now come to NZ expect the Romans to learn their language and make allowances for their customs and beliefs rather than the other way round. ....

Hahahah, I don't see many of us here speaks Maori fluently?

[Sanx]

Hahahah, I don't see many of us here speaks Maori fluently?

Correct, but the predominant culture and language in NZ is not Maori. it's Anglo-European.

[Marmoot]

Correct, but the predominant culture and language in NZ is not Maori. it's Anglo-European.

Oh really now? Even before the Brittish colony (immigrants) came here? Or did they come here and speak English and refuse to speak Maori?

[Grahameeboy]

Correct, but the predominant culture and language in NZ is not Maori. it's Anglo-European.

That's right, forgot that tourists only visit NZ to meet Anglo-European's and learn from their culture which goes back centuries...........and there was me thinking it was the Maori Culture they were interested in........well ya learn something new every day.....Mods..can I have a sarcasm face?

[avgas]

Sad fact of the matter is people are scared that if they speak Maori in nz, they will be sued by Tuhoi.
I mean theoretically we all learnt it till we were 14 right??? or did you all have smoking maori teaches like me who only wanted a smoke so we all when outside and played touch.

[Sanx]

Oh really now? Even before the Brittish colony (immigrants) came here? Or did they come here and speak English and refuse to speak Maori?

You can't compare modern-day immigration to empire-building. No, colonists did not come to NZ and fit in with Maori culture - they brought their own. But colonists coming from the UK were hardly likely to revert back to a stone-age hunter-gatherer cannablistic society, were they? Even if they weren't absolutely convinced of that their way of doing things was superior.


That's right, forgot that tourists only visit NZ to meet Anglo-European's and learn from their culture which goes back centuries...........and there was me thinking it was the Maori Culture they were interested in........well ya learn something new every day.....Mods..can I have a sarcasm face?

Learn from Maori culture? Oh come on. It might pose a passing interest to people, but for the most part your average tourist Maori cultural experience happens whilst visiting the boiling mud pools in Rotorua; and people go mainly to see the boiling mud. Yes, you will get people that come to NZ to learn about Maori and the culture, but I'm willing to bet the number who put down that as their primary reason make up a tiny fraction of the total. So why do people come to NZ? Let's put "Why go to New Zealand?" into Google and see what the font of all knowledge says:
iExplore.com: Mentions beaches, marine parks, volcanic areas, skiing in the Southern Alps, prehistoric forests, unique flora, low crime rate, no poisonous animals, adventure tourism, wilderness and a friendly population. Maori culture gets one sentence in Northland's piece: "It also gives tourists the opportunity to begin to understand Maori culture, art and history."
LetsGo.com: Maori get half a sentence: "The native Maori’s reverence for their homeland and the spirits who dwell within it inscribe a sanctity upon the land...". Attractions listed include smoking volcanos, ecological diversity, walking tracks, nature reserves, national parks, and adventure tourism. Their Best of New Zealand section contains not one mention of the word "Maori".
Lonely Planet: Nothing Maori on the front page. It's all glacial mountains, clear rivers, boiling muc, hissing geysers, native forests, elusive fauna, unique flora and adventure tourism. Read a bit further, and the Northland bit mentions the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi and where Pakeha first landed. However, the guide talks more about Northland's beaches, museums (the kauri museum, specifically), and diving spots. The Culture and History section mentions Kupe and the waka, then it's all western history until a small bit at the end about treaty settlements and Maori protests.

OK, this is hardly a scientific examination or survey, but on the whole (speaking as someone not born in this country) people don't come here to experience Maori culture. They may experience some of it whilst they are here, but it's more something to do on a rainy Tuesday afternoon than the prime reason fo visiting this country.

[Grahameeboy]

Yep, cannot disagree with you...on the other hand a lot of the land sites visited by tourists have Maori connections.....and before you say it...I know Maori did not ski................

Anyway, we should just accept people for what they are regardless of religion, culture etc........

[peasea]

Would green rep ya but i am supposed to share the love


It's ok, someone else did.