Coolant. Would you like that straight sir or with water?

[Oakie]

Just noticed that the coolant reservoir on Mrs Oakie's Eliminator is close to empty so I thought I'd top it up. Questions:

1) Are you best just to use coolant straight or should it be diluted with water? Instructions on the container says dilute 1:1 or 2:1 but people I've spoken to say just to throw it in straight.

2) If you should use water, where do you get distilled or 'soft' water ... and would the sort of water you get from a 'Pump' water bottle be adequate?

[Edbear]

Personally I buy the coolant and mix as per intructions to use as a top-up. Straight water will dilute the mix in the radiator gradually. I use filtered water from the kitchen filter. Should be okay unless anyone can get all scientific otherwise?

[erik]

As far as I know:

You're best to dilute it 50:50 with water. If 'Pump' is distilled water, then it should be fine. I got a 10L bottle of Puredew distilled water from the supermarket that I use.

Was any reasoning given for not diluting the coolant?

[Edbear]

Ummm! Maybe in a race motor where you don't expect the same mileage, but coolant's purpose is not just as an anti-freeze, but very important to stop corrosion. You're engine will eat itself from the inside out without it and the first you will know is when it overheats, and/or loses coolant.

[breakaway]

Yes, Pump should do the trick. Just buy one of those $5 10L containers of water from Foodtown or whatever. The reason for this is because normal tap water will have hard water minerals and shit that will create some nasty build-ups in the cooling system, which is, well, bad.

[Oakie]

Was any reasoning given for not diluting the coolant?

No reason. I think the two mixes were 1:2 for down to -16 degrees (air temp) and 1:1 down to -37 degrees. I guess straight coolant mix allows you to ride your bike in the Antarctic but then you're going to be worried about your oil freeezing and your petrol turning to jelly.

[robertydog]

You mix 50/50 as that will increase your boiling point by 9 degrees. You can go to Super Cheap and buy Demineralised water for radiators and batteries for about $5.00 for 5 Litre Container.

[Oakie]

You can go to Super Cheap and buy Demineralised water for radiators and batteries for about $5.00 for 5 Litre Container.
Thanks. I've already mixed and applied 350ml coolant with 350ml water from a 'Pump' bottle but I'll remember the Super Cheap for next time. Hell, I might even go and get some now. Any excuse for a ride.

[laRIKin]

From what I have been told you run a 40% to 50% antifreeze.
Any more and you are wasting your money as you do not get any extra cooling because it is the water does most of that.
And the antifreeze does just that, stops the water freezing.
So you only need enough to do just that.

Unless you are using some other product's I would stay with that mix or as they recommend.
After all they know their product better that us. :yes:

[kiwi cowboy]

says in my manual use boiled or distilled water if you cant get soft water

[McJim]

Distilled is good but boiled? That will INCREASE the concentration of the unwanted minerals - good for killing bacteria but then an internal combustion engine is a/ Not susceptible to bacterial infections and b/ will kill the wee bastards the first time it gets to operating temperature.

[Sidewinder]

nice rabbit:Punk:

straight is the best way.

would you water down a shoot? no you wouldnt.

but if the container says to mix with water do so but if not just put it in striaght

[vifferman]

i just use normal tap water or failing that rain water in a puddle (relativly clean) i dont recommend useing salt water
Ahh... dude - you do realise we're a maritime country, surrounded by sea, right? Rainwater here is full of salts, pollen, dust, etc. It's nowhere near as clean as you might think. You're better off using tap water if you can't get distilled water.
Actually, distilled water from the supermarket is cheaper than fancy bottled drinking water. I buy the 10L containers and use it in the iron, for topping up radiators/batteries,

[avgas]

Was any reasoning given for not diluting the coolant?
I heard that Oxidising on 25 y/o cast alloys motors is bad. Also on some of the seals on some old bikes......misting and crap occurs inside

[bimotabob]

Hi

Don't run 100% E/Glycol antifreeze - but it's better than none.
It's abillity to alter waters freezing point diminishes once you get over about 60%.
The reason they say max use is 50-60% is because of this. It will freeze a number of degrees earlier when put in with no water.
After all wouldn't they want you to use more of there product if it was ok to?

Not all coolant may work this way though but most common ones use E/glycol.

(Coolant was part of my studies years ago)

Cheers
BB

[babyblade250rr]

i generally use the premix coolant that you can buy from supercheap in my cage just pour straight in as the water antifreeze combination has already been done for you, I would assume that this would be fine for a two wheeler.

please correct me if im wrong

[terbang]

The additive not only acts as an antifreeze but it also is a corrosion inhibitor and it raises the boiling temp of the coolant. This allows a tighter cowled radiator and less overall coolant. For example, the WW2 spitfire used glyercol as the cooling medium through it's tightly cowled underwing radiators. Water would have boiled under such circumstances. I just follow the manufacturers reccomendations.

[Drum]

Hey Oakie, have you got a manual for the Eliminator?

I've got one in a series of .jpegs if you want a copy.

[Oakie]

Hey Oakie, have you got a manual for the Eliminator?

I've got one in a series of .jpegs if you want a copy.

Yeah I have thanks. I was surfing for Eliminator stuff one day and a guy who had an Eliminator had scanned (I guess) his manual and put it on his website. Took ages to download the 7.5mb on dial up but I've got it all tucked away safely in 26 .jpegs. Bloody handy too.

Thanks for the offer anyway.

[Pancakes]

Use distilled, boiled will concentrate contaminants whereas distilled is pure H2O. Pump etc (healthy) waters are sometimes tap water from "tasty" areas or spring water so aren't Ph neutral and have calcium and all kinds of suspended minerals. You can dilute your own water, Google it, a lab supply place and a pot on the stove should keep you and your mates in Battery and coolant water forever. Yeah, antifreeze lowers the freezing point and raises the boling point but with a temp gauge and modern thermostat you don't have to raise it too much to have a good margin of safety heat wise.

The water not the coolant carries the heat away so if your worried about overheating you don't need more coolant you need more coolant volume in total. A catch can to remove air bubbles in the system and sink some heat before the radiator + add capacity to slow down temperature change is added to race cars often. Whether it's feasable depends on your needs, weight and if you have somewhere on your bike to put one. If your machine isn't crap the standard system working normally should be fine.

[Max Preload]

Use distilled, boiled will concentrate contaminants whereas distilled is pure H2O.


You can dilute your own water

I presume you meant distill. Distillation is fairly inneffective as far as the production of demineralised water goes. You've been watching too many "Pure Magic water distiller" adverts. If you've ever drunk boiler feed water you'll know what I mean - distilled water is nothing like it.


The water not the coolant carries the heat away so if your worried about overheating you don't need more coolant you need more coolant volume in total.

Coolant has the same specific heat as water so it does just as much heat transfer as the same volume of water. For greater cooling capacity, you don't necessarily need more coolant - just a more efficient radiator. All extra coolant capacity does is reduce the rate of rise in temperature when the heat going into the coolant exceeds the radiators ability to disperse it.

[slopster]

You should be mixing 50/50 but it doesn't have to be exact. If your just topping it up I'd just chuck strait coolant in, 50mL of coolant wont change the mix much on the other 3L.

[Chrislost]

my owner manual says 60/40 water/ afreeze.

the antifreeze jsut raises the boiling temp by a few degrees and stops it freezing.
much like salt water freezes below 0 and boils above 100
adding ions or somshit...
the water is what "carries" the heat energy

[FROSTY]

Chris --theres a bit more to it than that.Antifreeze acts as a lubricant for the seals in the water pump.it also reduces the corrosion in the aluminum parts

[Pancakes]

Coolant has the same specific heat as water so it does just as much heat transfer as the same volume of water. For greater cooling capacity, you don't necessarily need more coolant - just a more efficient radiator. All extra coolant capacity does is reduce the rate of rise in temperature when the heat going into the coolant exceeds the radiators ability to disperse it.

Sorry bro.

(Quote)
Air has a specific heat value of 1.01 (at a constant pressure), while the figure
for water is 4.18. In other words, for each increase in temp by one degree, the
same mass of water can absorb some four times more energy than air. Or, there
can be vastly less flow of water than air to get the same job done.
Incidentally, note that pure water is best - its specific heat value is actually
degraded by 6 per cent when 23 per cent anti-freeze is added! Other
commonly-available fluids don't even come close to water's specific heat value.

From http://autospeed.drive.com.au/A_107760/cms/article.html

[Sanx]

The specific heat capacity of a glycol/water solution is less than that of pure water. The glycol inhibits corrosion, lubricates seals and components in the colling system, lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point. You should not mix it with tap water, but de-ionised or distilled water is fine; it's not the trace minerals in tap water that causes a problem, it's the chlorine it's treated with.

The ability of a liquid (actually, of anything) to carry heat is measured by its specific heat capacity. This is usually expressed in Joules per kilgram per Kelvin; essentially how much energy it takes to heat a certain quantity of the substance by a certain amount. Of commonly-available liquids, water has the second-highest specific heat capacity. The only liquid with a higher specific heat capacity is anhydrous ammonia. which considering it's highly alkali, toxic, very corrosive and boils at a lower temperature than water (depending on the concentration of ammonia), hardly qualifies it as a good substance to use as coolant.

So, it's not the water in coolant that carries the heat away; it's the coolant solution itself. Pure glycol (ehtylene glycol, as opposed to propylene glycol) has about 60% of the specific heat capacity of pure water. So you can run with no water in the cooling system, but the efficiency of the system will be reduced. That's why coolant manufacturers recommend you use a 50/50 mix. At 50% dilution a water/glycol mix has 80% of the specific heat capacity of pure water; it's a good trade off between ability to transfer heat, corrosion protection and increase operational temperature range.

[Max Preload]

At 50% dilution a water/glycol mix has 80% of the specific heat capacity of pure water

88% @ 50/50 according to ASHRAE. I didn't realise we were being so accurate.

[Max Preload]

Sorry bro.

(Quote)
Air has a specific heat value of 1.01 (at a constant pressure), while the figure
for water is 4.18. In other words, for each increase in temp by one degree, the
same mass of water can absorb some four times more energy than air. Or, there
can be vastly less flow of water than air to get the same job done.
Incidentally, note that pure water is best - its specific heat value is actually
degraded by 6 per cent when 23 per cent anti-freeze is added! Other
commonly-available fluids don't even come close to water's specific heat value.

From http://autospeed.drive.com.au/A_107760/cms/article.html

But since we are being nitpicky, to single digit percentages it seems, there are other effects like the boundary layer which come into play with heat exchange.