Target (TV3, 10 July) [Archive]

AliJax

4th July 2007, 12:37

I can now invite you all to watch TARGET on Tuesday 10th July.

The reason behind this is my own story will be on about the Nightmare bike that is the Gas Econo-mee, and to warn other Newbie Motorcyclists from this bike.

I havent seen the finished segment in the episode but saw a clip of it last night, and I don't know how I'll come across on it :gob:

For those of you not aware of my "crusade" I've experienced, leaking fuel, falling out bolts, swing arm pivot working its way out and nail in the coffin the cracked swing arm.

ZeroIndex

4th July 2007, 13:21

peasea

4th July 2007, 13:32

Ahhh... those Sach's Mad-Ass bikes? Those look interesting until you see someone actually riding them, then it (the bike) looks very GAY... that's enough reason to not own one, nevermind the leaking fuel, crappy bolts, swingarm problems, etc...

I find it interesting that these things are getting through the required tests etc. maybe they aren't being tested at all. (?)

Having much to do with custom-built bikes and cars (choppers, hot rods, kit cars etc etc) and knowing what it takes to get these things certified (a process I have very few qualms about) I have to say that these stupid little machines (cheap-ares scooters, mini-choppers and sports bikes and their ilk) are simply death traps.

A neighbour's son rolled one up our drive with a carb problem a while back and I fiddled with it for a while before finding about 20mm of play in the steering head! It was ridiculous. I informed the mother and haven't seen it making its noisy way around the neighbourhood since. Good job I say, they're bloody dangerous out there on the road.

Our bikes require full licences and WOF's rego's etc, why not them? They take up road space, are more dangerous than our machines, they're harder to see and cause way more noise pollution. Burn them all............

ZeroIndex

4th July 2007, 14:02

I find it interesting that these things are getting through the required tests etc. maybe they aren't being tested at all. (?)

Having much to do with custom-built bikes and cars (choppers, hot rods, kit cars etc etc) and knowing what it takes to get these things certified (a process I have very few qualms about) I have to say that these stupid little machines (cheap-ares scooters, mini-choppers and sports bikes and their ilk) are simply death traps.

A neighbour's son rolled one up our drive with a carb problem a while back and I fiddled with it for a while before finding about 20mm of play in the steering head! It was ridiculous. I informed the mother and haven't seen it making its noisy way around the neighbourhood since. Good job I say, they're bloody dangerous out there on the road.

Our bikes require full licences and WOF's rego's etc, why not them? They take up road space, are more dangerous than our machines, they're harder to see and cause way more noise pollution. Burn them all............
If you look at them, they look like they'll do the job, but looks are sometimes deceiving...

AliJax

4th July 2007, 14:25

...Thats why I've been approaching -

a) Tv
b) Biker Magazines
c) Local Press
d) this forum
e) LTNZ
f) MCA

to try and warn people from this particular bike beacause it doesnt get checked, in fact it was delivered to my house in a box & was told all I had to do is put the front wheel on & handlebars, did'nt mention all the other stuff :angry2:.

I know I'm setting myself up for a bit of finger pointing, :chase: & 'told you so's but I'm a newbie on a bike & an LTNZ inspector actually said (while i've been on this crusade)that it does'nt comply with moped registration.

So now I'm going for a bike which has been inspected properly.;)

FROSTY

4th July 2007, 14:33

There is a MAJOR flaw in our vehicle licencing laws that I just cannot for the life of me can't get my head around.
Alijax I'd like to suggest that you may be the catalist that FINALLY sees a change in the law.
Its Just unbelievable that a motor vehicle can come into the country and be able to be used on NZ roads with NO safety checks at all
Has someone got to DIE before they fix this problem

Conquiztador

4th July 2007, 16:24

Coming from Europe where Sachs is a well known and respected make (I owned one of their mopeds when very young and it was the bees knees) I am blown away that these are sheit. But I understand that this one is made in China and not in Germany. So that explains a lot.

The only Chinese I have purchased is a push bike with front and rear suspension, heaps of gears and bla bla. Cost me $150 new so I was not too worried (and I had done dealings with the seller before and he was very decent).

When it turned up I had to laugh. The rear end was welded on to one side (about 5 degrees) nothing was tight and even when tightening up it did not stay together. I contacted the seller and asked for my $$'s back. He deposited the $$'s to my account straight away (appart from $9 success fee as I was slow in complaining and he could not get the $9 back anymore). When I asked where I should take the bike he told me to keep it...

Now after some use of my handy man skills I can actually use it. OK so the back wheel travels on the left side of my arse. But now I am the happy owner of a $9 red and purple mountain bike with yellow tyres (yep!!)

So the lesson here is: Don't buy Chink stuff if U want quality. But if U know the seller you will get it for close to nothing.:yes:

babyblade250rr

4th July 2007, 17:36

what kinda bikes are these? what do they look like? are they the mini motorcycles you see around on the street?

ZeroIndex

4th July 2007, 17:51

what kinda bikes are these? what do they look like? are they the mini motorcycles you see around on the street?

<img src=http://www.moppe.se/images/Madass0.gif>

or was it this.....

<img src=http://www.xerox.com/images/gbr/en/d/ducati06_en_bike.jpg>

xwhatsit

4th July 2007, 18:05

I think the Sachs Madass are supposed to be quite good, but this Gas Econo-me or somesuch is a knockoff of it? Am I correct?

Mr. Peanut

4th July 2007, 19:33

The Sachs Madass was properly built in a factory. The Economee is made from a collection of parts stored in a warehouse.

The original Madass is a far better piece of kit.

I read about it in the Listener of all places.

Conquiztador

4th July 2007, 19:36

I did have a problem believing that Sachs would make something crappy.

ZeroIndex

4th July 2007, 19:46

I did have a problem believing that Sachs would make something crappy.
Ok, so the Sach's just look like crap, and it's a copy that looks just as crap, and also has crappy parts in it?

Conquiztador

4th July 2007, 20:14

Ok, so the Sach's just look like crap, and it's a copy that looks just as crap, and also has crappy parts in it?

Crappy parts are crappy parts. Nothing will change that. But re the looks of the moped, I actually like the look of it. It is a soo simple construction. I just wish I would have come up with that those years ago when I was riding mopeds. A few "steel" pipes welded together and chuck in a motor, two wheels and away U go...

ZeroIndex

4th July 2007, 20:20

Crappy parts are crappy parts. Nothing will change that. But re the looks of the moped, I actually like the look of it. It is a soo simple construction. I just wish I would have come up with that those years ago when I was riding mopeds. A few "steel" pipes welded together and chuck in a motor, two wheels and away U go...
The bike itself looks ok... it looks like a giant bmx... it's only once you attach a person to it, that both the bike and the person look like idiots... what's up with the mountain-bike handlebars and seat?

babyblade250rr

4th July 2007, 20:23

Conquiztador

4th July 2007, 20:32

can't imagine why anyone would want one of these do you need a license to ride one? if so why wouldn't you just buy a proper motorcicle? if it's economical buy a nifty 50 or something alike atleast they don't look funny

U only need a car learners license. So ppl who can not ride bikes and just want to commute cheaply consider them. And she is cheep on petrol. And really, a Nifty 50 looks as silly. Put a big guy on one and U see...

geoffm

4th July 2007, 20:37

There was an article in a recent AA mag about scooters and the lack of controls on them. I peevs me off - one day I would like to make a bike frame, but the certification requriements, approved, certified welders, etc make it a no-go, yet I knwo I could do a better, stronger job than these POS scooters.
Geoff

AliJax

5th July 2007, 11:19

Thought I'd share this with you all, I took it from the June Motorcycle trader.

And yes I wanted a comuter bike (did'nt think i'd get so attached to Riding, but I have) and the Gas Econo-mee seamed like the thing to get.

The seller answered all my questions when I was looking around, no need for a licence, I took the Basic Handling with Riderskills because i'd never ridden before so I was more profficient before I took to the streets.

50cc, disc brakes, cheap to run, simple design, big wheels, unfortunatly when I ran into difficulty the seller did'nt offer much in the way of support.

The Lone Rider

6th July 2007, 00:42

I havent seen the finished segment in the episode but saw a clip of it last night, and I don't know how I'll come across on it :gob:

Just from my personal experience, never ever ever ever let someone publish your likeness or words without stating that you require viewing of the FINAL version that they are to publish, and publishing is pending your approval.

And I'd suggest you view any published material with a few others you trust and discuss their impressions with them in private, away from the publisher who usually is inclined to stand over your shoulder or sound agitated over the phone for you to say its all go.

Especially in NZ. No matter where you go, someone will know you or know someone who knows you really well. And theres no such thing as bad press being good press (unless you are Paris Hilton)

delusionz

6th July 2007, 01:46

Hi AliJax

I'd love to get in contact with you, I've experienced your exact same pain with a different bike before I went Japanese.

Conquiztador

6th July 2007, 15:45

that dont buy chink stuff if you want quality. Someone took a disliking to my comment and red-blinged me for it. Said: "Chink is a racist term, and used in a derogatory way".

Sorry I got it all wrong, I was supposed to say: "The Chinese make top quality machinery and as such are regarded as the leaders in the motorbike manufacturing industry"...

The term Chink came, as far as I know, from the Korean war. It is an abbriviation of CHInese North Korean.

Said all this, being racist was the furtherest of my mind when I made the comment. So, if I offended any Chinese people on here, my sincere apologies to all gooks.

AliJax

8th July 2007, 16:51

There we go again another Learning experience!
If I see a spade I call it a spade, to me honesty always best policy - its other peoples interpretation thats the pain in the arse.

To KB's don't be to harsh on me after Tuesday.

FROSTY

10th July 2007, 19:00

its on tonight--looks like worth a watch

Pancakes

10th July 2007, 19:53

On Target asking the LTSA what checks scooters (and bikes?) undergo before being allowed on the road.

FROSTY

10th July 2007, 19:53

Jeez ali---Lyndsey shoulda known better

sunhuntin

10th July 2007, 19:54

watching now... seems to be on the side of the owners at this stage.

neat to see a kber in "person!"

BigG

10th July 2007, 19:55

Just watched it, how the heck do they pass a VIN, Remanents want to front up cos they are supposed to be a reputable firm arn't they. It was a good report from Target not so good about the removal blokes though.

kiwifruit

10th July 2007, 19:55

Lyndsey shoulda known better

yes!

how bout those movers :gob:(off topic sorry)

btw, you nailed it AliJax ;)

MyGSXF

10th July 2007, 19:58

:gob: the swing arm broke as he was riding it!!!!!!!!! :sick:

BuFfY

10th July 2007, 19:59

Yeah I just watched it!!
Crazy crazy

FROSTY

10th July 2007, 20:03

Just watched it, how the heck do they pass a VIN, Remanents want to front up cos they are supposed to be a reputable firm arn't they.
Mate they DONT pass a vin they dont pass a WOF ya just bring in the paper from overseas and fill out a form and bingoits on the road.

NighthawkNZ

10th July 2007, 20:04

hmmmmm toys being sold as road leagal vehicles... where have I heard this before... false advertising and the law probably needs a tweek here...

as for them movers :gob:

Colapop

10th July 2007, 20:04

All vehicles if intended to be used as road-going should be subject to VIN and warrant checks. End of story.

bell

10th July 2007, 20:06

Loved the shoulder check by the 'host' boffin as he scooted off.

This is one loophole in the law that I'd bother to sign a submission for.

breakaway

10th July 2007, 20:10

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=53003

10th July 2007, 20:11

Man those Economee scooters look great. Where do order one?
The safest way is to buy one and have it delivered by that thieving Moving Co. :laugh:

NighthawkNZ

10th July 2007, 20:13

Man those Economee scooters look great. Where do order one?
The safest way is to buy one and have it delivered by that thieving Moving Co. :laugh:

:lol: :rofl: :D

Brett

10th July 2007, 20:14

What track is that that they were riding scooters around on??

Disco Dan

10th July 2007, 20:17

Good to see Kerry from Motohaus on there giving some advice! Shame they didnt say the name of his shop!

Stupid cheap bits of crap those eco-mee things... you get what you pay for. Should just buy a proper bike/scooter.

FROSTY

10th July 2007, 20:20

Yea colapop--Its been a bugbear of mine for ages now.
Those minichoppers come into the country with stickers on the tank that say clearly NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE Unscrupulous vendors on trade me have been selling them for road use by removing the stickers.
I know for a fact of one vendor selling 110cc minichops (that by law need a VIN ) and telling the customers to register them as a 50cc --yea its breaking the law but who cares right--the customers gonna be dead anyway cos the POS fell to bits in front of a car

Pancakes

10th July 2007, 20:28

That law makes me want to get an old BMX frame from the garage and mount up a 50cc (or 100cc, my memory may fail me when filling in that form!) and have a toy for going to the dairy etc. Would be safe as, would be sooooo much better than those pieces of crap. Any decent bicycle is built stronger than that.

FROSTY

10th July 2007, 20:36

Ohh no pancakes you can't do that---cos you need to have import documents for it as an import as a motorscooter/bike

riffer

10th July 2007, 20:40

Well done Alijax, you came over well on the programme - nice to see telly not butcher something.

I sincerely hope you resolve this issue without the expense of the Disputes Tribunal.

and that something is done to close this loophole.

Pancakes

10th July 2007, 20:45

Aaaah! I see politician type sense in that, I can import something uninspected and as long as some other country Helen (eeew) has gone down on (double eeew) to get a trade deal with profits it's fine. I get a crome-moly racing frame, have a certified welder bolt in a motor with less power than my legs have down the same drive train and Have less total weight than a pausible adult rider (me, 75Kg's, motor and fuel etc, 25K's max) which could easily be up to 100Kg's and my partys over before the underage girls turn up?

Mmmmm, anyone selling some import papers?

Jokes, I NEVER do anything illegal, ever, well..........:innocent: not unless it's fun or I just feel like it.

delusionz

10th July 2007, 20:46

You guys will be hearing the exact same story from me in the not too distant future, We're already going through with the disputes tribunal which will be held soon. The vendor in question is NZecobikes and the bike in question is the Cruiser SS.

I learned a sad sad lesson from this, If only I could have warned you earlier about Chinese quality (edit: or lack of).

I'm so happy with my Japanese bike now, I wish I had of just bought it in the first place.

breakaway

10th July 2007, 23:31

Looked good AliJax :yes:

Unfortunately I can pretty much guarantee that people will continue to buy cheap chinese brands only to have the forks collapse when going 50 in front of a 4x4.

Shadows

10th July 2007, 23:45

Chinese quality.

Bwahahahahahahahaha those two words should never be in the same sentence!

peasea

11th July 2007, 17:07

hmmmmm toys being sold as road leagal vehicles... where have I heard this before... false advertising and the law probably needs a tweek here...

as for them movers :gob:

Bugger! Missed it, no power for five hours!
We're moving ourselves to the Mainland, I don't want anyone going through my knicker collection.

oops

AliJax

11th July 2007, 18:19

Thanks for all your words.

I hope the poiliticians do take notice of this. I've spoken to Target today and the phones we're hardly ringing off the hook. I know LTSA & MCA have been looking into this over the past 2 months, I don't think it'll die down.

Yes the Disputes Form is in.

But I feel its important for Newbie bikers to be informed why bikes have a WoF & why you need a license to ride & what are the pitfalls of selecting a bike.

If I'dve done more background searching (not taking anything away from Lindsay, hes more knowledgable a Rider than I know of) I'd probably made the same discision, but I'd be better informed and would've asked more questions - then if the Retailer could'nt answer I would get cold feet and have walked away.

All in all - I'm in the Market for a 250cc now ! (its all I need for a newbie rider :yes:)

The Lone Rider

12th July 2007, 20:29

Good stuff! Glad to see you didn't come off like a knob or daft or something else due to dodgey editing for the show producers to get their point across.

Kinje

12th July 2007, 20:35

Just watched it on TV3 website. Looks like a pretty dodgy system to get them in and onto the road.

Hope the disputes goes well, and these loopholes are closed up to make the roads safer for everyone.

paturoa

12th July 2007, 20:55

Just watched it on TV3 website.

Got a link? I just had a look on their site and couldn't find it..

scumdog

12th July 2007, 20:59

Bwahahahahahahahaha those two words should never be in the same sentence!

Oh, I dunno, my Chinese AK47 ain't failed to function in the 15 years I've had it..

swbarnett

13th July 2007, 00:15

Got a link? I just had a look on their site and couldn't find it..

Starts about half way through the first and continues in the second:
http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ProgrammesVideo/tabid/373/articleID/22574/Default.aspx#video
http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ProgrammesVideo/tabid/373/articleID/22575/Default.aspx#video

What a shocker! Big loophole that needs plugging fast.

Shadows

13th July 2007, 01:09

Oh, I dunno, my Chinese AK47 ain't failed to function in the 15 years I've had it..

Granted.... but how many 30 round magazines do you need to empty to guarantee a V-bull on a pistol target at 200 yards?

scumdog

13th July 2007, 10:31

Granted.... but how many 30 round magazines do you need to empty to guarantee a V-bull on a pistol target at 200 yards?

THAT is liking saying "how much modification are you going to have to make to get your Superglide Sport to do a 11.5sec 1/4 mile"

In both cases the item was not intended for the purpose proposed.

kerfufflez

13th July 2007, 14:52

Starts about half way through the first and continues in the second:
http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ProgrammesVideo/tabid/373/articleID/22574/Default.aspx#video
http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ProgrammesVideo/tabid/373/articleID/22575/Default.aspx#video

What a shocker! Big loophole that needs plugging fast.

Thanks for the links.
I haven't seen that programme for years. What happened to the old fella in the white (or was it blue?) coat?

Scouse

13th July 2007, 15:59

AliJax

13th July 2007, 16:08

Hi there, got it from an advert featured in the Motorcycle Trader Last year & the Dealers were REMNANTS, they are based in Mount Maunganui.

Whose response is one of "...nothing wrong with the bike..."

Conquiztador

13th July 2007, 17:41

Had a look at the clip. Sad. Very sad. But comes back to whart I stated earlier: If you want quality, don't buy chink...oops, I mean chinese quality.

Were the Sachs brought in to NZ (Sachs was the previous manufacturer of this scooter), and is there anyone on here who has/has had one??

-df-

13th July 2007, 17:43

Oh, I dunno, my Chinese AK47 ain't failed to function in the 15 years I've had it..

hahahaha, bling sent for that one!!!

Only thing the chinese have done right.... Except for the hot chicks :first:

Conquiztador

13th July 2007, 17:45

hahahaha, bling sent for that one!!!

Only thing the chinese have done right.... Except for the hot chicks :first:

Cheep crappy fireworks. They do them well too. They manage to disappoint my kids every year. Luckily I have the knowledge to make my own from sugar and weedkiller...

-df-

13th July 2007, 17:47

Cheep crappy fireworks. They do them well too. They manage to disappoint my kids every year. Luckily I have the knowledge to make my own from sugar and weedkiller...

hmmmm, do share? (PM) :scooter:

-df-

13th July 2007, 18:09

ok....just watched the video....that is actually quite scary to think about!!

For a swing arm to snap (and another to crack)...thats just fucked up...how can that be put on NZ roads...we need a better system for imports under 50cc (2kw)

Timber020

13th July 2007, 18:56

The chinese just executed the head of there food safety, I wonder if theres a bike saftey head.

denill

14th July 2007, 09:00

Fifty years ago this thread would have been about the Jap manufacturers. :yes::yes:

JimBob

14th July 2007, 11:19

I have tried finding the answers but apart from someone saying there is a loophole I must have missed it.
So can someone fill the blanks in for me please?
I take it these bikes havent been certified?
If they havent why not?
If they havent been certified I presume they cant be registered?
cheers

JimBob

14th July 2007, 12:00

Found the info on the TV clips.
Playing devils advocate here
More comprehensive pre delivery would sort most of the problems and a simple modification to the swingarm would stop that stress fracture.
So if those were sorted they would probably be OK and wouldnt cost too much extra.
And as for being deathtraps etc, how many people have been killed?
Do we really want more rules and laws?
Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.

swbarnett

14th July 2007, 12:22

Do we really want more rules and laws?
Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.

No, not more laws. Just the current ones applied more logically and consistently.

JimBob

14th July 2007, 13:29

No, not more laws. Just the current ones applied more logically and consistently.

The way I read it they do comply with current legislation.

Pancakes

14th July 2007, 19:32

Yeah, the legislation that says "we don't give a fuck, you'll never dent our stats anyway! Now back to cars, lots of them, easy peasy!"

swbarnett

14th July 2007, 19:59

The way I read it they do comply with current legislation.

This is indeed true. I just mean that the current law that applies to larger cc ratings needs to apply right from 1cc and up.

Conquiztador

18th September 2007, 20:16

AliJax

19th September 2007, 13:39

Thanks Conquiztador :banana:, there's another one off the orad, EXACTLY same problem.

I'm sure these will be cropping up all over the place, and those on the Kiwi Biker Forum hopefully will be well informed to stay away from them & their variants.

Dodger

19th September 2007, 14:15

Here, one more with same problem. Swing arm broken. He wants too much for it. Hoping that nobody from here falls in the trap!!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Scooters/auction-118522593.htm

Hmmm, Its the dealer selling that. :pinch:

On a side note, I've had nothing but great service from nzecobikes with regard to my Chinese made scooter I brought from them a few years ago. :)

I've just had to track down a replacement indicator lens after some low life smashed mine off while it was parked outside the shops. Cost me $6.50 from ecobikes, and another $5 for replacement bulb (pack of 2) from Ripco.

bimotabob

19th September 2007, 17:40

All they have to do without getting too crazy with new laws is:

Make it so mopeds have to have a WOF.

It used to be like that anyway - why did they remove that "constraint"
as it must catch a lot of idiots who don't maintain their bikes.
Surely it must also catch the dodgy chinese muck that wears out fast too!

I get my moped a WOF but it's not compulsory, the bike shop even picked up
my steering head bearings were stuffed last time!
(normally I keep it up to spec but I missed that)

Regards

Forest

20th September 2007, 00:08

Starts about half way through the first and continues in the second:
http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ProgrammesVideo/tabid/373/articleID/22574/Default.aspx#video
http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ProgrammesVideo/tabid/373/articleID/22575/Default.aspx#video

What a shocker! Big loophole that needs plugging fast.

Much as I enjoyed learning that third party insurance is complicated and that most taxi drivers are thieves ...

Anyone got the correct links?

swbarnett

20th September 2007, 18:39

Much as I enjoyed learning that third party insurance is complicated and that most taxi drivers are thieves ...

Anyone got the correct links?
Unfortunately Target is only available for seven days after airing (so I found out just now). After that only "product checks" are archived.