Don't want to start an argument,BUT

[Jackrat]

After thinking about what Bob said a few threads back,I got to wondering,what constitutes a Real classic??
To me it doesn't have much to do with age,or country of origin.
I like to think of any bike that was at the top of the game/class during it's era as being a classic.
Like a 69 Honda CB 750 is most deffinatly a classic,So to the 68-69 Bonnie,
or the 73 Z900 Kawasaki,the 84 kawasaki ninja.
Yamahas XS1,There was no other Jap twin to touch it.
Some bikes are just OLD in my eyes and are never going to be classic no matter how old they get.yet to some, age is the defining factor.
I've always found that approach a bit odd,like as long as it's old,leaks oil and it's british,it's a classic????That includes some pretty nasty motorbikes I reckon.
Can ya' spell Francis barnet,I'm not sure I can, but I don't care they'll never be classics no matter how old they get.
:Punk: :Punk: :Punk:

[Posh Tourer :P]

Yep, mine's never going to be a classic, it was never a great bike in it's day. Nor is it particularly unique - it is fairly rare, but thats about it. OTOH, the parents R75/6 could be - a step down from the R90S, but still pretty good in it's day - top of it's class, and the R100RS similarly so.
Does that give a few ideas?

[riffer]

I like to think of any bike that was at the top of the game/class during it's era as being a classic.
I agree with you 100% on this one Jackrat.

[Warren]

*cough*Nifty fifty*cough*

[Blakamin]

Does that include the 1976 Z900? hope so, coz then I've got some classic bits sitting in OZ now!

Mind you, in 10 years the CBR400RRK nc23 might be considered a bit of a classic.
one of the best 400's of its time... "when honda got it right" I like to call it :eek:

[mangell6]

No arguments yet, the Water Bus and the RD350 of the early seventies were classics. As were the Vincents, then there were the 500 Manxs and I know stuff all about non-japanese bikes but those to me are classics.

[jrandom]

Doesn't have to be particularly old at all, I reckon.

Examples, none of 'em British:

- MVA F4 750

- ZX-7R

- XB9R

All modern classics in their own right, IMHO, and should still sell well to fans in 30 years time.

I'm not including Ducatis here, because they fall to bits before they ever have a *chance* to become classics... :whistle:

[FROSTY]

funny wot different people call classics.
To me the CB900 boldor and the GSX1100 are classic UJM s -
And i would still own a XJ750 as a daily commuter

[Kickaha]

I'm not including Ducatis here, because they fall to bits before they ever have a *chance* to become classics... :whistle:

Ok I'll bite

I take it thats the voice of experience speaking,so just as a matter of interest what models have you owned,how many km's did you do on them and what fell off?

Could be worse you could own a FXR150 (future classic) :msn-wink:

[jrandom]

Ok I'll bite

I take it thats the voice of experience speaking,so just as a matter of interest what models have you owned,how many km's did you do on them and what fell off?

I'm afraid it's just the voice that spends the rest of its time asking who's trip-tropping over its bridge...


Could be worse you could own a FXR150 (future classic)

Future Coke cans, more like.

[Bob]

I came up with something that got people thinking? :apumpin: Gosh!

My insurers definition of a classic bike is 18. Years old that is.

If you want a debate on this with a bunch of classic owners, then click here. (http://www.realclassic.co.uk/messages.html)

Be prepared for a number of 'virtual groans' though - this comes up a lot on there and there will be a few people that will get very hacked off at this debate being brought up again.

(NB. I used to post on here, but long story involving not getting on with someone and also wanting to be able to do what I do over here - which doesn't really fit a classic bike site - means I don't visit any longer. So probably mentioning my name won't get you the most sympathetic response)

[ben444]

In 15-20 years time, we will remember that japanese classic we all wanted when we were young(and old), which changed the world of 'sportbikes', the original 1992 CBR900RR Fireblade.

[bgd]

For me the Suzuki GS1000G from the early '80s is a classic. For all I know it may have been a crap bike but my flatmate had one and I was often a pillion. It's a classic because it's from my past and I have good memories of it.

[Motu]

It's kind of a murky area for me too,I certainly don't consider something a classic just because it's old,and not because everyone else thinks they are,like a Z900,a bike totaly lacking in character for me...just being the fastest kid on the block at the time means nothing to me.The first CB 750 wasn't the fastest either,although the media would like everyone to think so,but it earns a place because it was such a huge leap forward for the Japs,we were agog.Yep,the XS1 is a classic,that's why it's so hard for me to let mine go.

I like rounded flowing lines,I like form follows function,and when something is so right the first time - like the Norton Commando Roadster,it becomes an instant classic,in it's own lifetime.Round head Guzzis,round case Ducatis - but the Dhama,oh,what a beauty.The sixties and seventies motocrossers - stark,functional,thugs,all of them classics to me.The /5 BMWs,with the big tank,even now it's an instantly recognisable BMW classic,it just IS a BMW,nothing before or after is so BMW.

I like???? um,kitsch?? tacky,ugly? honest attempts at being up to date but missing by a country mile - the Japs were good at this,the BSA twins were gleaming chrome,tanks and all....but little Jap 2 strokes had tinny cheap chrome panels on their tanks...but the worst in trying to be a leader in looks was the GT750,damn that was ugly then,it's ugly now,but I love them for it.The scooters,all of them,so innocent,naive,they look like Buddy Holly.

What I don't like are classic motorcyclists,and even worse are the younger guys who get a Triumph 650,or some such,cause they always wanted one when they were young fullas.They pay 7 grand for a heap of shit that's been built out of 15 bikes,but it's got a flash paint job.I got out of classic bikes when the first wave of old farts came along - they would nit pick all the things that were not original on my bikes....yes,I know they never made a swing arm M20,but I have,no,a 21in front wheel was never fitted,but I have,no,2.5 gallon tanks were not made in 1954,but mine is off a 70 Lightning,,where is the nacelle?,in the bin mate,along with all the other crap.

Good thought Jack,I'll do some more thinking on the subject.

[TwoSeven]

I think vintage is anything over 25 years old (bikes that is).

Classic to me is a machine that was incredibly popular in its day or held reverence with the majority of motorcycle enthusiasts (of the day).

I would exclude bikes that had some wonder technology, are expensive or were just different or ahead of their time.


For example the CBR900RR was a classic because it started a whole trend - you wouldnt have your R1 now if it wasnt for the cibbies.

Likewise the CBR600F2 (although there were 600s out before that - the design and performance was revolutionary enough for the other manufacturers to copy it).

The RC30 would be another one as it was used in racing and road riding and spawned the VFR400. I wouldnt include the RC45 tho.

The Triumph 750 bonnie and the BSA bantam (they may not be classic to some because they might not be old enough to remember them - but during their day they were popular).

Same with the vincent black shadow and the kawasaki Z1. They would be prime examples (still dang'd expensive too).

The Ducati 888 was another one, and you could probably add the 916 (but not the later ones or the new MV augusta).

[Bob]

I've got my own favourites (GPZ900 anybody? First big bore sportsbike that actually handled? for example), but thought you might like to have a look at this article by Dave Minton. (http://www.realclassic.co.uk/opinion03072200.html)

Minton has been a motorcycle journalist for many years and has tested untold thousands of bikes in his time.

I warn you, it is a long article and could take some time to wade through, but it is an interesting idea as it doesn't concentrate on any one time or country, but takes in biking over the last 100 years, pulling machines from a range of eras.

Have a look and see what you think.

[ben444]

I've got my own favourites (GPZ900 anybody? First big bore sportsbike that actually handled? for example)

...highway to the dangerzone ... cool Top Gun bike. I rode one from Christchurch to Invervegas last year, then my mate proceded to ride around the whole country on it. Good old bike.
Top Gun had a huge influence in my life... I think it's why I wanted to start riding bikes in the first place, (and planes I guess)

[Paul in NZ]

Whats a classic?? You may as well ask how long is a piece of string…

It’s whatever turns your crank and blows your hair piece off… Classics are judged by the rosey glow of 20/20 hindsight and not by dreary commercial realities… Classics are NOT bikes that changed the world… No one would deign a Vincent Rapide it’s place but did it change the way bikes were made in it’s time? Nope! At the end of their run the parallel twin and telescopic forks was still king and reigned for a decade afterwards!

A Honda C90 is a classic, best selling bike ever and definitely fit for purpose, yet will we be restoring them? Nope! (apart from an enlightened few) We will be lusting after stuff we could not afford then and can barely afford now. Is a modern MV a classic?? Apart from looking OK (subjective) and being leg wettingly expensive, not really… At least not compared to a 916 that did alter how people designed bikes.

Is a Bonneville a classic? Yes! It was the benchmark against which everything else was measured in terms of emotion! Ie It was the must have bike of it’s time.. yet most of the people that bang on about them owned tiger cubs or speed twins.. Go figure…

Is my Guzzi a classic? Not really! It’s the last (and in some ways the best) of the sporting roundfins but a Mk1 or 750S is way cooler! The even uglier Mk3 is probably better (early ones anyway)

Is my TR6C a classic. To me! Yes! Triumph dominated the off road scene with these bikes in the late 50’s and through the 60’s and yet, despite being rarer than a bonnie, and having won considerably more races, it is worth less..

Years back, we had a Sunbeam Talbot Mk3. A stunning English sporting saloon with great history and breeding. However, ours was made by the Rootes group (Hillman, Humber, Singer etc) and thus not a really pukka job! One day I was tooling along, sun roof back, getting admiring gazes from the populace when I pulled up beside a Mk5 Jag. Ah ha! A fellow classic motorist I thought! Nope! He virtually laughed at my common car and drove off! (wanker) I was mightly vexed but then I thought, I was happy before I met this guy and why let this arsehole ruin my day? Nothing has changed and after all, he will head up the road and meet a guy with a Bentley who will laugh at his jag. Bentley boy will meet a guy with a Rolls who will meet a guy with an Aston Martin etc etc etc.

A Classic is something that speaks to you! It does NOT have to have global acceptance. If it makes you smile when you see it and laugh with joy when you ride it and brings back a memory of where you wanted to be at some other time, it’s a classic. In short, a classic is a time machine and I don’t care if it is a GN250 or Brough Superior.

[vifferman]

So you didn't really start an argument, Jackrat. You must've been way too diplomatic.

Interesting the bikes that younger peoples reckon are classics, like the CBR900 etc. To me, they are just evolutions of earlier classic bikes. Like you can trace the lineage CBR900 back to the CB750. Whatever; I guess that doesn't make a difference.:wacko:
How 'bout this - is this a classic:

[duckman]

"Classic" is in the eye of the beholder .... :)

[F5 Dave]

...highway to the dangerzone ... cool Top Gun bike. I rode one from Christchurch to Invervegas last year, then my mate proceded to ride around the whole country on it. Good old bike.
Top Gun had a huge influence in my life... I think it's why I wanted to start riding bikes in the first place, (and planes I guess)

um, that was a 600 tommieboy was on, but doesn't really matter.

I'd put in a vote for some classic stinkwheels :love2:

RD350LC & RZ YPVS. Launched a whole order of motorcyclists :banana: .

RZ & RG500 for being the closest thing to a GP bike ever (until Duc & Honda get serious with their MotoGP bikes, 06 perhaps)

[James Deuce]

I used to organise things into types of bikes, but now I like pretty much everything.

Classic though, hmmm:

US: HD XLCH
UK: Bonnie
Japan: 70s CB400, RG250, RC30
Ger: BMW R29, DKW RT350
Italy: Laverda Jota, 916

All subjective of course, and it would be easy to make the list much bigger.

[kerryg]

*cough*Nifty fifty*cough*


Hey, careful..... :Pokey:

[Cajun]

...highway to the dangerzone ... cool Top Gun bike. I rode one from Christchurch to Invervegas last year, then my mate proceded to ride around the whole country on it. Good old bike.
Top Gun had a huge influence in my life... I think it's why I wanted to start riding bikes in the first place, (and planes I guess)

same for me that movie/bike got me in to bikes, i liked them, but that movie help me like them more, i always wanted to be a pilot, that never worked out, damn english at damn school, and damn dylesexia

[vifferman]

same for me that movie/bike got me in to bikes, i liked them, but that movie help me like them more, i always wanted to be a pilot, that never worked out, damn english at damn school, and damn dylesexiaYou know Tom Cruise is dyslexic, I guess?

[vifferman]

"Classic" is in the eye of the beholder .... :)Well behold this classic then:

[Blakamin]

Well behold this classic then:
what did that used to be? :spudwhat:

[F5 Dave]

what did that used to be? :spudwhat:

It might have been a W model reverse cylinder TZR250 -but in intense need of counselling & a cyanide pill.

Having said that most had a self terminate feature inbuilt.

[vifferman]

It might have been a W model reverse cylinder TZR250 -but in intense need of counselling & a cyanide pill.

Having said that most had a self terminate feature inbuilt.Hey - that man's good! :niceone:
And RIGHT.
No, I don't think it's a classic. Not in the classical sense of classic. :spudwhat:
What about this aberration?

[Blakamin]

Hey - that man's good! :niceone:
And RIGHT.
No, I don't think it's a classic. Not in the classical sense of classic. :spudwhat:
What about this aberration?
Cool...


I swear i used to ride something like that around the beach when i was about 12! oh, the memories (all bad i'm afraid, it was the neighbours and i broke it)

[Cajun]

You know Tom Cruise is dyslexic, I guess?

nope i don't i, i don't keep track of male movie stars but i guess you do dc:<

[F5 Dave]

CB125, 125T tank, RV90 wheels, can’t place the shock absorbers.

[vifferman]

nope i don't i, i don't keep track of male movie stars but i guess you do dc:<Of course! I pull out his picture when I'm under the covers at night, with my torch and polishing rag.:lol:
Nah - it was your reference to Top Gun and then your reference to dyslexia that prompted me to post that. :blank:

I swear i used to ride something like that around the beach when i was about 12! oh, the memories (all bad i'm afraid, it was the neighbours and i broke it)Something like that is right. Looks like this one has been hotted up a bit, with performance pipe and carb, then mutated into something weird....

This is a bit more sane, and recognisable (although F5 Dave seems to recognise them fairly readily):

[vifferman]

... and this one is not a classic, is very recognisable, but needs a coupla "ladies of the night" leaning on it.

[F5 Dave]

Bit more palatable, frame looks a bit suss. Saw a VTR due for introduction to a Husqvana frame for a hill-climb bike. Must ask if it was ever finished.

The purple one is hideous, neat supercharger though.

This one's reall purdy, bound to be a classic.

[vifferman]

Bit more palatable, frame looks a bit suss. I think the frame is standard VTR250, apart from mods for the single-sided swingarm.

Saw a VTR due for introduction to a Husqvana frame for a hill-climb bike. Must ask if it was ever finished.:shit:


The purple one is hideous, neat supercharger thoughNeat?!? :shit:
I think it's horrendous, and I'm worried about the effect of supplying extra needies to the VTR crankcases, which experience from racing suggests can't handle more'n 125 before they stampede through the stable doors, as it were.


This one's reall purdy, bound to be a classic.:pinch: Waddarya - freakin' blind?!? Or was that sarcasm? ANd what the hell is that? And what on earth kind of weird powerplant is that?:crazy:

[F5 Dave]

VTR2fiddy, Didn’t look close enough & thought the return rad hose was an artistic attempt at frame downtube. Oops.

Ah you have to appreciate the sheer violence of a supercharger. I’d be more concerned with that flailing belt & pulleys than the bottom end.

yeah just T.T.P.
The Prillia (no relation to Aprillia). Don’t think this otherwise classic race bike producer manufacturer had this in mind though.

[Blakamin]

Ah you have to appreciate the sheer violence of a supercharger. I’d be more concerned with that flailing belt & pulleys than the bottom end.


I woudnt want to be on it.. those gilmer belt drives have a habit of "falling off"
or they used to on my, and my brothers, cages

[F5 Dave]

I woudnt want to be on it.. those gilmer belt drives have a habit of "falling off"
or they used to on my, and my brothers, cages

Fortunately bikes like that are ever spared the likelihood of being ridden.


V4 hondas. They were real racing classics eh? V for Victory Isle of Man videos, oh the sound blah blah

Don’t think this is what Honda had in mind though.
Yes it is a V4 with C50 barrels

[vifferman]

V4, or V2? Looks more like the latter. But the real question is, "Why?"

[F5 Dave]

Something in the water?

Guess you can’t have a classic thread without a Harley picture. Here’s probably my fav Harley. Love to turn up to a HOG meeting on one of these beauties. In the wind Brother. Grrr.

[That Guy]

I don't reckon there is a right answer to this but I reckon there are two (or three?) types of "classic". Ie "That is a classic design", or "That is a Classic"..or even "a man walks into a bar and the bar tender says etc etc" and ya laff and laff at the "classic" joke.

So which is it? Well I guess an Audi TT is a classic design but not yet a classic. An MV F4 is a classic design but not yet a classic. A Classic I reckon has to earn it's title via what some call "patina" (otherwise known as being worn out....) or something like that...

The car world has some more strict definitions - Veteran being pre WWI, WWI-WWII = Vintage, and then anything (usually) older than 25 years = classic. For example to compete in the Pirelli Classic Car Rally in the South Isalnd the rule state you car has to be 25 years old or older (ie their definition of a Classic) to enter. Car clubs have different ideas but generally it's around this mark.

With bikes its bit harder I reckon 'cause in 1968 you had FAST COOL cars like E-Types, Ferrari Dinos and Porsche 911s....but bikes were a bit behind (I think anyway). So if we say bikes must be 25 years old or older we're kind of keeping out a lot of cool bikes.

Eye of the beholder and all that in the end - but for me if it's got two wheels and a motor and the owner enjoys it then thats classic. And possibly a Classic.

[vifferman]

Guess you can’t have a classic thread without a Harley picture. Here’s probably my fav Harley. Love to turn up to a HOG meeting on one of these beauties. In the wind Brother. Grrr.Ahh - the Aermacchi days...

[Blakamin]

Something in the water?

Guess you can’t have a classic thread without a Harley picture. Here’s probably my fav Harley. Love to turn up to a HOG meeting on one of these beauties. In the wind Brother. Grrr.

hehehehe or one of those AMF H-D badged aeromacchi(sp?) from the mid 70's when AMF owned both

edit: thats one? i remembered them being uglier and they had a road version

[F5 Dave]

This 'road' enough for ya?

I like smoke and lightning
Heavy metal thunder
Racin' with the wind
And the feelin' that I'm under

[Blakamin]

This 'road' enough for ya?

I like smoke and lightning
Heavy metal thunder
Racin' with the wind
And the feelin' that I'm under
:doobey: :killingme :killingme :doobey:

ahh, some people spent time making that.... only in america

[Sensei]

So many to choose. XT500H . RG500. PE400 .CBR1000R. etc SENSEI

[TwoSeven]

Maybe we should choose a short list for each decade going back to the 20s.

[NordieBoy]

I think vintage is anything over 25 years old (bikes that is).

Well I wouldn't exactly call my 1979 XR250Z a "vintage".

A beast - yes.

[scumdog]

An XN85, any other iron-head sporty - and of course a Sporty 'S'!!!! :cool2:

[F5 Dave]

XN85! Oh please!! How was this lemon a classic? It was just a spruced up GS650, overweight, underpowered & unreliable. Heck even the CX turbo was a better bike, the Kawasaki the pick of the turbos, but for a real classic of the era & same genre you’d be better off saying Wire Wheel Katana.

You didn't mean XR750 perchance?

[scumdog]

XN85! Oh please!! How was this lemon a classic? It was just a spruced up GS650, overweight, underpowered & unreliable. Heck even the CX turbo was a better bike, the Kawasaki the pick of the turbos, but for a real classic of the era & same genre you’d be better off saying Wire Wheel Katana.

You didn't mean XR750 perchance?

Nice fuckin' troll F5 :laugh: , read any bike magazine test of the turbo bikes of the early '80s and you'll see that most of them give the XN a big thumbs-up, maybe not as grunty as the bigger cc bikes but best balanced and best handling out of the four brands made in the land of the rising sun.

And while I haven't ridden any of the others how many have you ridden?

[F5 Dave]

Only the Kat (not wire wheeled I admit). It handled great as long as there were no bumps. No corners helped too.

Yeah I remember the tests of some of the bikes, but the post mortem tests were a lot more derogatory after the turbo era disappeared as quickly as it arose.

[Motu]

My brother has an XN85 in Canada,over there a bike,or car I suppose is given classic statis and cheap rego if only a certain number were sold - I think less than 25 XN85s were sold over there so he gets cheap rego for it.Definatly the rarest of the turbos,I've seen all the others,but never an XN85.Oh,so it was a parts bin special - and the others weren't?

XR750? - that's more than classic,it's legend.

[F5 Dave]

There was an 85 hanging around in Wellington not too long ago, I saw it in 2 different places so presumably it could move under it’s own steam.

The wildest Turbo was the Kawi 1000TC which was a K USA creation.

Lets hope Speedpro doesn’t find this thread, he has a particularly evil thou turbo in a Macintosh. Don’t know if you could call it a classic but I wanna hit him up for a ride one day. In reality I’d be probably bottle given the chance.

[rodgerd]

*cough*Nifty fifty*cough*

No sillier than people who venerate Fiat Bambinas or Riley Elfs.

And I'd add votes for the likes of the RG500 and V-Max (although I guess it's harder for the latter to be regarded as a classic since it's still in production unchanged since introduction).

[scumdog]

Only the Kat (not wire wheeled I admit). It handled great as long as there were no bumps. No corners helped too.

Yeah I remember the tests of some of the bikes, but the post mortem tests were a lot more derogatory after the turbo era disappeared as quickly as it arose.

My point is: the XN85 was the ultimate in all-round performance/handling etc compared with the other factory turbo bikes, sure it ain't so good compared with modern similar sized bikes but what '83 bike is? and what other '83 scoot has held its value so well?

p.s. first road Suzuki with monoshock suspension AND anti-dive forks.