Secret trials begin in NZ?

[SPman]

I'll just jab this wound again........

The abortion of justice that is the Ahmed Zaoui case began yesterday in a trail as farcical as it is unjust. Ahmed Zaoui, a democratically elected politician in Algeria who fled his country after the French supported a military coup against his Government is on trial in a secret case where he will face secret evidence that he can not defend himself against. As red necked talkback NZ howl that a dirty Muslim is allowed in the country and they hop up and down about the taxpayer money spent they of course never mention that secret evidence from the French (the only government to have actually committed a terrorist attack on our shores) is being used in a secret trial that should make every N Zer deeply ashamed of their legal system. This abortion of Justice continues today, God Defend NZ.

[Dave Lobster]

God Defend NZ.

I sincerely hope not. Then we'd be no better than the SPAMS.

[MisterD]

God Defend NZ.

I hope so, because you Amnesty International hand-wringing do-gooders won't seem to let the peope we employ to do this job, get on with it...

[Dave Lobster]

I hope so, because you Amnesty International hand-wringing do-gooders won't seem to let the peope we employ to do this job, get on with it...

Let's hope its them that get sacrificed to their own god then.

[WasPhantom]

It is not a secret trial. He is not held in New Zealand against his will (i.e. he can leave the country at any time). It is a review of his security status by the head of the NZSIS. It is NOT a secret trial.

[jimbo600]

Fuck him. He flushed his documents down the head on the way here. Should have been sent back on the next plane.

And like some others say he can leave at any time.

Takes the piss out of all the other real refugees that are waiting overseas to get granted refugee status.

[Shadows]

I don't believe the government would risk the bad press generated by the situation unless they had a damned good reason to bypass "normal" legal process for the sake of national security.

Nobody seems to realise that the reason that the Rainbow Warrior thing stands out in people's minds so much and is always used as an example of terrorism on our soil is because it was the only time anybody actually managed to carry out something like that. For that reason I think we should have a bit more faith in our intelligence services.

I say that all of those sandal wearing poncho draped hairy armpitted lesbian vegetarian professional student anti-smacking bill supporting neighbourhood watch group organising do gooders, that insist on living on, and forcing upon every body else, a set of idealogical bullshit values derived from some fantasy world, who protest for the sake of protesting without any real factual knowledge of the situation at hand should just fuck off.

Bring out the tear gas and rubber bullets!

[yod]

I say that all of those sandal wearing poncho draped hairy armpitted lesbian vegetarian professional student anti-smacking bill supporting neighbourhood watch group organising do gooders, that insist on living on, and forcing upon every body else, a set of idealogical bullshit values derived from some fantasy world, who protest for the sake of protesting without any real factual knowledge of the situation at hand should just fuck off.

generalising just a teeny bit maybe?

[Shadows]

generalising just a teeny bit maybe?

Do you think so?

[Biff]

I'll just jab this wound again........

The abortion of justice that is the Ahmed Zaoui case began yesterday in a trail as farcical as it is unjust. Ahmed Zaoui, a democratically elected politician in Algeria who fled his country after the French supported a military coup against his Government is on trial in a secret case where he will face secret evidence that he can not defend himself against.

He's not on trial - He's having his security certificate reviewed by a QC who is privy to the SECRET evidence against him.

Sure the guy is having a rough ride, and it's a damned fkin shame if he's innocent of all accusations against him. So thank fuck someone is actually reviewing the actual threat this guy poses, and decide whether there is indeed sufficient evidence to confirm his security risk certifcation. And if he's innocent then all the better. Free man. Nice.

When something is SECRET or classified in any way it should remain just that, else informants/operatives lives or other source of intelligence gathering capability may be put in danger of being compromised should said secret information run any risk of identifying the source of any available evidence.

Nobody here, or anywhere else in New Zealand who doesn't need to know what evidence, if any, they have against him, doesn't know what's what, so they shouldn't jumpt to any conclusions without knowing the facts. Which we don't. If that makes sense.


I'm pissed again. Monteiths's Celtic tonight. $7.30 a pint. Robbing bastards

Nice though.:drinkup:

And I'm on holiday tomorrow. Which is just as well. :sick:

[Karma]

Nobody seems to realise that the reason that the Rainbow Warrior thing stands out in people's minds so much and is always used as an example of terrorism on our soil is because it was the only time anybody actually managed to carry out something like that. For that reason I think we should have a bit more faith in our intelligence services.


Or maybe it's because New Zealand is at the arse end of nowhere and nobody could be bothered coming all the way here?

[James Deuce]

We've been having secret trials in NZ ever since the Family Court was set up.

[James Deuce]

Fuck him. He flushed his documents down the head on the way here. Should have been sent back on the next plane.


Standard advice from NZ Immigration Service is to do just that if you are applying for refugee status.

[devnull]

I don't believe the government would risk the bad press generated by the situation unless they had a damned good reason to bypass "normal" legal process for the sake of national security.

Nobody seems to realise that the reason that the Rainbow Warrior thing stands out in people's minds so much and is always used as an example of terrorism on our soil is because it was the only time anybody actually managed to carry out something like that. For that reason I think we should have a bit more faith in our intelligence services.

I say that all of those sandal wearing poncho draped hairy armpitted lesbian vegetarian professional student anti-smacking bill supporting neighbourhood watch group organising do gooders, that insist on living on, and forcing upon every body else, a set of idealogical bullshit values derived from some fantasy world, who protest for the sake of protesting without any real factual knowledge of the situation at hand should just fuck off.

Bring out the tear gas and rubber bullets!

:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:first:

Best post ever...

[peasea]

There are a few posts here I like and agree with.

Anyone who lies on a document, falsifies a document or arrives here using any form of skulduggery should be sent packing asap. Far cheaper to buy a plane ticket on the spot than drag the perp' through the system, feeding fat-arsed lawyers endlessly and getting a faceful of b/s from the sandal wearing soft cocks of this nation into the bargain. I've had chain emails wanting signatures for AZ's release ad nauseum and I put the same two words at the bottom and send them back. (One of the words is 'off'.)

We have rules and if you break them you suffer the consequences, right? Well, that's the plan anyway, and if I have to cough-up for speeding (there's that 111kph thing again) when I have told absolutely NO lies on any documents, then someone who arrives on our shores with a false passport needs to be expunged FORTHWITH!

If he's so deperate to put things right in his own country why did he run so far? Better to skip one border and stay close to the problem so as to be able to assist I'da thought.

We don't need French testimony to make a case for deportation (who trusts the French anyway?**), we have our own laws; he broke one by falsifying a passport, grrrrr, it's simple. What more do we need to kick his arse right back where it came from?

**
Q) What's the difference between Frenchmen and toast?
A) You can make soldiers out of toast.

[Shadows]

Or maybe it's because New Zealand is at the arse end of nowhere and nobody could be bothered coming all the way here?

Well, yeah.. that too.

[Dave Lobster]

who trusts the French anyway?

NOBODY!!!!:shutup:

[peasea]

NOBODY!!!!:shutup:


Not even on July 14?

[avgas]

How is it is secret court case if everybody knows about it?

[Scouse]

He should have been on the very next plane back out of here

[MD]

Bloody parasite. It just stuns me that there are people gullible enough to think he has the right to be here AND have tax payer funded lawyers provided to invent a 'right' for him to stay here.
It is irrelevant why he left his homeland. I suspect a few hundred million Chinese & Indian peasants would like to live here given the chance. Luckily for our limited land mass and resources they all can't sneak in. So why should AZ get away with it?
No doubt I would be comfortably living in any of Donald Trumps flash houses but guess what. I can't just sneak into one and claim squatter rights.
These &%$@ Liberals need to stop trying to make us feel a guilt trip for all the world's woes.

[Delerium]

He's not on trial - He's having his security certificate reviewed by a QC who is privy to the SECRET evidence against him.

Sure the guy is having a rough ride, and it's a damned fkin shame if he's innocent of all accusations against him. So thank fuck someone is actually reviewing the actual threat this guy poses, and decide whether there is indeed sufficient evidence to confirm his security risk certifcation. And if he's innocent then all the better. Free man. Nice.

When something is SECRET or classified in any way it should remain just that, else informants/operatives lives or other source of intelligence gathering capability may be put in danger of being compromised should said secret information run any risk of identifying the source of any available evidence.

Nobody here, or anywhere else in New Zealand who doesn't need to know what evidence, if any, they have against him, doesn't know what's what, so they shouldn't jumpt to any conclusions without knowing the facts. Which we don't. If that makes sense.


I'm pissed again. Monteiths's Celtic tonight. $7.30 a pint. Robbing bastards

Nice though.:drinkup:

And I'm on holiday tomorrow. Which is just as well. :sick:

Seconded, the drams involved in getting a security clearance are well involved. Why the hell should any joe bloggs get access to classified information. Its classified for a reason.

[Delerium]

I don't believe the government would risk the bad press generated by the situation unless they had a damned good reason to bypass "normal" legal process for the sake of national security.

Nobody seems to realise that the reason that the Rainbow Warrior thing stands out in people's minds so much and is always used as an example of terrorism on our soil is because it was the only time anybody actually managed to carry out something like that. For that reason I think we should have a bit more faith in our intelligence services.

I say that all of those sandal wearing poncho draped hairy armpitted lesbian vegetarian professional student anti-smacking bill supporting neighbourhood watch group organising do gooders, that insist on living on, and forcing upon every body else, a set of idealogical bullshit values derived from some fantasy world, who protest for the sake of protesting without any real factual knowledge of the situation at hand should just fuck off.

Bring out the tear gas and rubber bullets!

You and me are going to get on real well. In auckland? Ill buy you a beer!

[Sollyboy]

Justice or not Ahmed needs to be sent home asap , his costs so far would have paid for 100 hip operations or helped to give a proper course of herceptin to many good hard working kiwi tax payers , the fact that he is a suspect is enough evidence for me to have him arse holed on day 1,take it personally people its your tax dollars being wasted on this sandy but crack

[doc]

I'll just jab this wound again........

The abortion of justice that is the Ahmed Zaoui case began yesterday in a trail as farcical as it is unjust. Ahmed Zaoui, a democratically elected politician in Algeria who fled his country after the French supported a military coup against his Government is on trial in a secret case where he will face secret evidence that he can not defend himself against. As red necked talkback NZ howl that a dirty Muslim is allowed in the country and they hop up and down about the taxpayer money spent they of course never mention that secret evidence from the French (the only government to have actually committed a terrorist attack on our shores) is being used in a secret trial that should make every N Zer deeply ashamed of their legal system. This abortion of Justice continues today, God Defend NZ.

You just stirring or if you are serious why don't you start a group to raise funds to reimburse the NZ public for the cost this whole affair . I'm sure I there is nowhere in the world you could enter illegally and then get so much support to fight the system that is trying to evict you. This PC crap has to end

[geoffm]

Correct meif Iam wrong, but wasn't he living in malaysia for 3 years with his family, with no problems? Why not apply for citizenship there?
He can go back there any time he wants, we have paid millions of dollars to his lawyers already. Sod 'im
Geoff

[peasea]

You good people are so right! Why don't we pass a hat round, buy wee dinghy, two oars and put AZ in it. Then give it (and him) one swift kick in the direction of his homeland and save ourselves millions. (That we can give to a deserving dole bludger.....)

The whole thing makes me want to puke!:sick:

[peasea]

You and me are going to get on real well. In auckland? Ill buy you a beer!


It'll be a pretty full bar I'd say!

[Shadows]

You and me are going to get on real well. In auckland? Ill buy you a beer!


It'll be a pretty full bar I'd say!

Sounds like the next time work has me on an overnighter up there we'll have to jack something up. :drinknsin

[DougB]

I am ashamed that my country that has held this man for so long, it is a disgrace.

This review should have been over in days not years.

I dont care if he is guilty or not he should have been dealt with promptly. I hope a method for dealing with future cases immediately has been devised.

[Chrislost]

I'll just jab this wound again........

The abortion of justice that is the Ahmed Zaoui case began yesterday in a trail as farcical as it is unjust. Ahmed Zaoui, a democratically elected politician in Algeria who fled his country after the French supported a military coup against his Government is on trial in a secret case where he will face secret evidence that he can not defend himself against. As red necked talkback NZ howl that a dirty Muslim is allowed in the country and they hop up and down about the taxpayer money spent they of course never mention that secret evidence from the French (the only government to have actually committed a terrorist attack on our shores) is being used in a secret trial that should make every N Zer deeply ashamed of their legal system. This abortion of Justice continues today, God Defend NZ.

1)get over it
2)kick the fucker out
3) kick the rest out too

[Chrislost]

I don't believe the government would risk the bad press generated by the situation unless they had a damned good reason to bypass "normal" legal process for the sake of national security.

Nobody seems to realise that the reason that the Rainbow Warrior thing stands out in people's minds so much and is always used as an example of terrorism on our soil is because it was the only time anybody actually managed to carry out something like that. For that reason I think we should have a bit more faith in our intelligence services.

I say that all of those sandal wearing poncho draped hairy armpitted lesbian vegetarian professional student anti-smacking bill supporting neighbourhood watch group organising do gooders, that insist on living on, and forcing upon every body else, a set of idealogical bullshit values derived from some fantasy world, who protest for the sake of protesting without any real factual knowledge of the situation at hand should just fuck off.

Bring out the tear gas and rubber bullets!

+2
both my personalitys agree!

[SPman]

OK - as Helen Clark tries to explain

"It's not a court it's a review of a security risk certificate. Obviously it involves the use of classified information and that is properly done outside what would be the procedures of a court," said the PM. There's just one problem: it's not true. The current "open" hearings do not involve any classified information at all. If they did, Zaoui and his lawyers would not be allowed to attend. Instead, the SIS and the government are hiding behind secrecy, and using it to prevent any independent assessment of the evidence or the fairness of the process. And in a society which supposedly respects human rights, that is simply unacceptable.

The whole situation is a Kafka-esque parody that is chilling in it's implications of what the NZ gov believes it can do, regardless of laws and basic human rights.

If the concept of a "hearing", held in secret, with the defendant not being allowed to know what the charge is, or what the evidence is and unable to defend himself seems like a good idea, then the Gulags, Gitmos and all the other oppressive instruments of control being used around the world must be acceptable to the populace and, if that is the case, NZ is not the place it once was or is anything like, most reasonable people would expect.

Given the steady erosion of the Justice system as well, then, it's hardly surprising!

[James Deuce]

If the concept of a "hearing", held in secret, with the defendant not being allowed to know what the charge is, or

Family court.

[Delerium]

Family court.

Too bloody right. I was dragged through that as a kid, and so was my sister after that. If your a guy and going to the family court, your the enemy

[Goblin]

If the concept of a "hearing", held in secret, with the defendant not being allowed to know what the charge is, or what the evidence is and unable to defend himself seems like a good idea, then the Gulags, Gitmos and all the other oppressive instruments of control being used around the world must be acceptable to the populace and, if that is the case, NZ is not the place it once was or is anything like, most reasonable people would expect.

Given the steady erosion of the Justice system as well, then, it's hardly surprising!And people wonder why I'm bitter!
I spose you have to be from a pacific Island and need dialisis/oxygen/taxpayer funded medical care to be welcomed here.
If what A.Z. has been through doesnt give him refugee status then wtf does?

[peasea]

And people wonder why I'm bitter!
I spose you have to be from a pacific Island and need dialisis/oxygen/taxpayer funded medical care to be welcomed here.
If what A.Z. has been through doesnt give him refugee status then wtf does?


A REAL passport for a start!

[SPman]

Fuck him. He flushed his documents down the head on the way here. Should have been sent back on the next plane.

And like some others say he can leave at any time.

Takes the piss out of all the other real refugees that are waiting overseas to get granted refugee status.

Far from being illegal, such actions by refugees have been legal under international law for nearly half a century. For good reason. “A refugee whose departure from their country of origin is usually a flight, is rarely in a position to comply with the requirements for legal entry [ie passport and visa] into the country of refuge.”
Obviously, the right to claim asylum does not deliver an automatic right of entry. In judging each case on its merits though, the courts have underlined that the use of false documentation should not penalise genuine refugees, which Zaoui has been declared to be by the New Zealand authorities. “Escape from persecution has long been characterised by subterfuge and false passports,” the senior British justice Simon Brown wrote in the Uxbridge case in 2001 : ”Self evidently, the UN provides immunity for genuine refugees whose quest for asylum reasonably involves them breaching the law.” Dictators, after all, are not renowned for issuing travel visas to political opponents, and waving them goodbye at the airport.

[SPman]

Correct meif Iam wrong, but wasn't he living in malaysia for 3 years with his family, with no problems? Why not apply for citizenship there?
He can go back there any time he wants, we have paid millions of dollars to his lawyers already. Sod 'im
Geoff

New Zealand has now issued a security certificate against Zaoui, severely limiting the few travel options he had. Malaysia was already unsafe – which is why he left in the first place – because the Algerian junta was lobbying them for Zaoui’s expulsion, back into their tender mercies.

[SPman]

It is not a secret trial. He is not held in New Zealand against his will (i.e. he can leave the country at any time). It is a review of his security status by the head of the NZSIS. It is NOT a secret trial.OK - not a secret trial, just a review of his status, held in secret, with "evidence" provided by the SIS which isn't being made available to the accused (for he is being accused), with no right of rebuttal. A trial in all but name! And he is held in NZ - he is on the equivalent of severely restricted parole.
Even worse are the 4 people held in prison without charge,who are refusing to sign the travel documents that would deport them back to their "own countries" and certain death - although the government have been assured that, no, of course they won't be killed if they are returned, despite all the evidence to the contrary!

People and governments make me sick!

[jimbo600]

Far from being illegal, such actions by refugees have been legal under international law for nearly half a century. For good reason. “A refugee whose departure from their country of origin is usually a flight, is rarely in a position to comply with the requirements for legal entry [ie passport and visa] into the country of refuge.”
Obviously, the right to claim asylum does not deliver an automatic right of entry. In judging each case on its merits though, the courts have underlined that the use of false documentation should not penalise genuine refugees, which Zaoui has been declared to be by the New Zealand authorities. “Escape from persecution has long been characterised by subterfuge and false passports,” the senior British justice Simon Brown wrote in the Uxbridge case in 2001 : ”Self evidently, the UN provides immunity for genuine refugees whose quest for asylum reasonably involves them breaching the law.” Dictators, after all, are not renowned for issuing travel visas to political opponents, and waving them goodbye at the airport.

Yeah I suppose being part of an extremist Islamic group that assassinated the
Algerian president would make you bit of a refugee wouldn't it.

Wake up dude. There are baddies in the world and they want in here and will massage the system to do so. Will NZ suffer if he's given the boot? Nah didn't think so. Will NZ suffer if he stays? Maybe, even probably.

[Drew]

Yeah I suppose being part of an extremist Islamic group that assassinated the
Algerian president would make you bit of a refugee wouldn't it.

Wake up dude. There are baddies in the world and they want in here and will massage the system to do so. Will NZ suffer if he's given the boot? Nah didn't think so. Will NZ suffer if he stays? Maybe, even probably.

Yep, fuck him. The guy was originally held in custody as a security risk, and should the government not been able to hold him any longer on those grounds, (which was costing the tax payer a fuckin fortune), and they still had doubts, kick the prick out!

Why is it our problem the guy cant go back where he came from?

I'd give him the boot just for his book of poetry, heard one of them on Campbell live, it was shit!

Subject some other bleeding heart country to it I say.

Fuck the PC bullshit, look out for number one.

I'd also like to say again, that if this post has offended anyone, eat my excriment and get buggered.

[doc]

People and governments make me sick!

People who get on a soapbox over issues like this make me sick.

[Biff]

I'm sure I there is nowhere in the world you could enter illegally and then get so much support to fight the system that is trying to evict you.

In most if not all of the democratic in the world you would. It's part of the UN charter on asylum .

You think it's bad here - you should take a look at the UK, there are literally tens of thousands of asylum seekers there. Most of whom either end up in govt funded homes on the welfare, or in detention centers. All of then entitled to legal aid.

And don't start me on the freaking eastern European parasites. Grrrr.

[jimbo600]

I'd give him the boot just for his book of poetry, heard one of them on Campbell live, it was shit!

Poetry too? Well fuck me all to hell.

I'm a terrorist
On a French hit list
Now I live in the land of bliss
And I'm taking the piss
Now I should get the gist
And fuck off back to where I came from.

[Drew]

Poetry too? Well fuck me all to hell.

I'm a terrorist
On a French hit list
Now I live in the land of bliss
And I'm taking the piss
Now I should get the gist
And fuck off back to where I came from.

Now THAT'S poetry! Bling sent[smilie=2,2,19]

[SPman]

Yeah I suppose being part of an extremist Islamic group that assassinated the
Algerian president would make you bit of a refugee wouldn't it. -Extremist. Are you sure???
Wake up dude. There are baddies in the world and they want in here and will massage the system to do so. - all those Poms that keep sneaking in....:whistle Will NZ suffer if he's given the boot? Nah didn't think so. Will NZ suffer if he stays? Maybe, even probably. -

Zaoui was an academic who got into politics almost by mistake He is a Muslim Nationalist, who wanted to help turn Algeria into an Islamic democracy grounded in Algerian values and history. He is certainly not a fundamentalist - but that seems to become lost these days, as "the West" all embrace the American fear, that all Muslims who hold to Islamic principals, are somehow linked to Al Quaida and want to storm the bastions of truth, justice and the American way!!!
My eyes are wide open - baddies want in? There are enough of our own already here to go on with, they are not a specific muslim import, but if you don't take a good look at all sides of a situation, how will you know, just who the real baddies are and who are just made out to be such - naivete works both ways!


...."In 1994, Zaoui helped organize the so called “Rome Platform” peace conference that aimed to broker a solution to the Algerian crisis, and entailed Zaoui working in unison with the San Egidio Catholic community in Rome. In fact, Zaoui had only been wooed into joining the FIS by people that he had known at the University of Algiers, in an effort to lend the party greater moral authority and spiritual coherence. “I won’t say I opposed the FIS,”.......

....."Even after Zaoui went into exile, the likes of US deputy secretary of State Mark Parris were making a clear policy distinction between the Islamic fundamentalists in Algeria, and the FIS leadership group to which Zaoui belonged in Europe."

...."In an April 1994 speech, Parris noted that “ There is no evidence indicating that the FIS leadership abroad is currently in any way controlling the activities of those groups who have claimed responsibility for the [terrorist] acts referred to.”

A good background series of articles (from which most of the quotes came from), looking at both sides of the arguement can be found here.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00174.htm,
for anyone bothered. (but I'm not holding my breath)

Personally, I think the handling of this entire debacle is an indication of what our government, and, to a lesser extent our society, is REALLY like - and open, honest, fair and transparent in all dealings, is NOT where they are at. If you allow secret testimony, detention without charge or trial and more, to become acceptable, without the fundamental right of a man to face his accusers and defend himself, then yet another step down the path to a totalitarian regime has been achieved.
Become scared sheep in a mindless flock, voting for a smiling wolf and, ultimately, you deserve everything you get.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I say that all of those sandal wearing poncho draped hairy armpitted lesbian vegetarian professional student anti-smacking bill supporting neighbourhood watch group organising do gooders, that insist on living on, and forcing upon every body else, a set of idealogical bullshit values derived from some fantasy world, who protest for the sake of protesting without any real factual knowledge of the situation at hand should just fuck off.



good grief!

surely it is a reflection of the weakness of your argument that you have to characterise your opponents thus? If your counter argument was stronger, then it would not need to be bolstered by this particularly vitriolic attack?

in terms you might understand: You're playing the man, not the ball. Kindly desist.

[jimbo600]

Zaoui was an academic who got into politics almost by mistake He is a Muslim Nationalist, who wanted to help turn Algeria into an Islamic democracy grounded in Algerian values and history. He is certainly not a fundamentalist - but that seems to become lost these days, as "the West" all embrace the American fear, that all Muslims who hold to Islamic principals, are somehow linked to Al Quaida and want to storm the bastions of truth, justice and the American way!!!
My eyes are wide open - baddies want in? There are enough of our own already here to go on with, they are not a specific muslim import, but if you don't take a good look at all sides of a situation, how will you know, just who the real baddies are and who are just made out to be such - naivete works both ways!

There are some excellent points here and this thread is becoming good indeed. The West does have a xenophobic attitude to Muslims. This is both unfortunate and unavoidable. Every Muslim nation has conflicts on its borders. The extreme element believe the crusades are still occurring and want to re-establish the Ottoman Empire to its glory days. 80% of moderate Muslims in the UK, and thats not the AQ ones, sympathise with the tube bombers and AQ. The FIS in Algeria wanted to instill sharia law, and that didn't fit in well with the incumbent democratic system. Zaoui was a supporter of this transition. However, you are right. NZ has bungled this whole affair in that Zaoui should not have made it onto NZ soil in the first place.

[Drew]

Right, way too many terms in here I dont understand, so if you guys wanna stop trying to prove your IQ, get your cocks out and find someone to measure to determine the big fella.

In the case of Jimbo, dont bother, Kath said you were the long lost son of Mr Ed in that department.




















NOT

[jimbo600]

Right, way too many terms in here I dont understand, so if you guys wanna stop trying to prove your IQ, get your cocks out and find someone to measure to determine the big fella.

In the case of Jimbo, dont bother, Kath said you were the long lost son of Mr Ed in that department.

NOT

Ol' Mr Blue Vein pleases me plenty mate and thats all that matters.

As for the rest, well its all cut and paste from the 'net. I don't know what it means either. Something about xylophones I think?

[Toaster]

Well said Drew. Good to see a different perspective on the most boring thread I have read all day.

[Chrislost]

Zaoui was an academic who got into politics almost by mistake He is a Muslim Nationalist, who wanted to help turn Algeria into an Islamic democracy grounded in Algerian values and history. He is certainly not a fundamentalist - but that seems to become lost these days, as "the West" all embrace the American fear, that all Muslims who hold to Islamic principals, are somehow linked to Al Quaida and want to storm the bastions of truth, justice and the American way!!!
My eyes are wide open - baddies want in? There are enough of our own already here to go on with, they are not a specific muslim import, but if you don't take a good look at all sides of a situation, how will you know, just who the real baddies are and who are just made out to be such - naivete works both ways!



A good background series of articles (from which most of the quotes came from), looking at both sides of the arguement can be found here.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00174.htm,
for anyone bothered. (but I'm not holding my breath)

Personally, I think the handling of this entire debacle is an indication of what our government, and, to a lesser extent our society, is REALLY like - and open, honest, fair and transparent in all dealings, is NOT where they are at. If you allow secret testimony, detention without charge or trial and more, to become acceptable, without the fundamental right of a man to face his accusers and defend himself, then yet another step down the path to a totalitarian regime has been achieved.
Become scared sheep in a mindless flock, voting for a smiling wolf and, ultimately, you deserve everything you get.



if you read the qur'an then you will see that it clearly states that there are muslems and there are everyone else, and if you convert/kill everyone else you get a few virgins

[Drew]

Ol' Mr Blue Vein pleases me plenty mate and thats all that matters.

As for the rest, well its all cut and paste from the 'net. I don't know what it means either. Something about xylophones I think?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Well said, I've got no come back...

I can pronounce xylophone tho, so this thread is moving in the right direction at least.

[HenryDorsetCase]

if you read the qur'an then you will see that it clearly states that there are muslems and there are everyone else, and if you convert/kill everyone else you get a few virgins

red rep me you wanker and call me a hippy muppet. Oh, wait, you did. Dickwad.

[Shadows]

good grief!

surely it is a reflection of the weakness of your argument that you have to characterise your opponents thus? If your counter argument was stronger, then it would not need to be bolstered by this particularly vitriolic attack?

in terms you might understand: You're playing the man, not the ball. Kindly desist.

I resent the implication that I am incapable of understanding multisyllabic words. It is simply my personal choice to use plain English in general conversation rather than to unnecessarily baffle others with verbose bullshit when the conversation is clearly not in any specific technical context.

I will not desist in "playing the man, not the ball" as I firmly believe that the "man" in this case consists of a bunch of ill-informed busybody PC hippies who need to STFU. If they want to save the world, then they should go and do something that is actually useful, like planting trees or something.

[RON SOAK]

I will not desist in "playing the man, not the ball" as I firmly believe that the "man" in this case consists of a bunch of ill-informed busybody PC hippies who need to STFU. If they want to save the world, then they should go and do something that is actually useful, like planting trees or something.
As opposed to a ill informed redneck bigot who needs to STFU and get back to work wacking coons!

[avgas]

At the end of the day, I have one simple question:
If life has been so hard for him, why hasn't he killed himself yet?
Its not like its against his religion or nothing.
Its pretty obvious to me that life is easy for him.

[Shadows]

As opposed to a ill informed redneck bigot who needs to STFU and get back to work wacking coons!

You're right. I do.

[Chrislost]

red rep me you wanker and call me a hippy muppet. Oh, wait, you did. Dickwad.

oh shit, tht was supposta say POS hippy