Hopper to Kawasaki... [Archive]

BarryG

11th July 2007, 05:36

All I can say is "FFF*8#&*k" !!!
Suzukis have been a revelation this year - and to leave now surely has to be a massive mistake. I sure as hell hope he hasn't been swayed by a smooth talking manager who stands to make a good chunk of change from a big salary being paid to Hopkins.
I guess the Kawasakis have improved a lot too, and he guess Hopkins must know a hell of a lot more about where he can be more competitive, but Kawasaki??? I wonder if West will be signed for next year now? That'll be interesting.
Cheers
Barry
PS thanks for finding this, no US sites have it up yet.

k14

11th July 2007, 06:47

Yeah I'm quite surprised too. Although he will always be an also ran, may just get a few less podiums riding the Kwaka as to the Suzuki.

BarryG

11th July 2007, 07:09

Not sure about the 'also ran' description - I think he is a real racer, gives his all all the time. Perhaps his style shags the tyres too much, or he rides around a setup deficiency and loses out at the end of a race, but it will be interesting to see if his eventual replacement will ride the Suzuki as hard as he has.
One thing about the 800's, a certain amount more parity in the performance of the bikes is evident. Suzuki and Kawasaki were really nowhere last year, now they're definitely in with a shout at most places.
Jerry Burgess has an interesting idea, he reckons they should fire (or demote) the bottom 6 guys in MotoGP and bring in the top six guys in 250's to replace them.
Cheers
Barry

Pwalo

11th July 2007, 07:39

Don't forget this is the MCN. Not always the most reliable source. But if it is confirmed I wonder who Suzuki have lined up to replace him?

k14

11th July 2007, 07:51

Not sure about the 'also ran' description
Yeah maybe that was a bit harsh but I can't see him ever doing any good. Its quite surprising that he's still there. Anyone else that took that long to get their first podium would have been well gone. Xaus took a podium in his first year of motogp on a second rate bike and he got tossed back to superbikes quick smart. Pretty sure he crashed about the same amount as Hopkins did in his first years too. Guess only time will tell but he is definately getting a bit stale.

SimJen

11th July 2007, 08:00

yep its confirmed on crash.net.
Seems a bad move to me, although to be honest while Hopkins is a wicked rider, Chris Vermuelen has shown better form jumping on a new bike!
Suzuki won't be too pissed i'd imagine, Vermuelen can do the job and now there is always the possibility that James Toseland might join Suzuki too!!!!
Interesting stuff.
Good to see more manufacturers getting their shit together with competitive machines. Obviously the new tyre rules are levelling the field, the class riders are still up the front though.

steved

11th July 2007, 08:43

The first domino has fallen. Who will take Hopper's Suzuki seat?

James Deuce

11th July 2007, 08:46

Someone's jumping before they get pushed I think, and Kawasaki are looking pretty average since they let Nakano go. Hopper going to Kawasaki will be an improvement for both Kawasaki AND Suzuki.

It would be good to see if Toseland can hack it in MotoGP, but I doubt it. The 800s are too much like 250 GP bikes for someone to come from the motorcycle sport equivalent of a Lay-Z-Boy and succeed.

skelstar

11th July 2007, 09:14

The 800s are too much like 250 GP bikes for someone to come from the motorcycle sport equivalent of a Lay-Z-Boy and succeed.[/LEFT]
Did Edwards do this? ...and was it Bayliss that won at the end of last year?

I'm new to this MotoGP thing tho...

James Deuce

11th July 2007, 09:26

Did Edwards do this? ...and was it Bayliss that won at the end of last year?

I'm new to this MotoGP thing tho...

Edwards has 250 experience and he has been in MotoGP a relatively long time now, working through the 990s and into the 800s. He as as much experience of the 800s as anyone. MotoGP bikes are are a big step up from Superbikes. You may not think it from lap times and top speed, but the chassis stiffness is something all the riders who go from Superbikes to MotoGP, even for a one off test, comment about.

Bayliss won on a 990. The 990's, as Hayden proved, could be ridden aggressively (sliding and wheel standing) and still win. The 800s demand maximum traction all the time and pinpoint precision. Trying to fix a muffed corner entry with rear wheel steering on an 800 will result in running 6 inches wide and losing places mid corner and on the exit because your mid corner speed, and therefore exit speed is down.

sAsLEX

11th July 2007, 09:29

Kawasaki are looking pretty average since they let Nakano go.

Ant West?

James Deuce

11th July 2007, 09:35

Failed to deliver. Choked one could say.

sAsLEX

11th July 2007, 09:37

Failed to deliver. Choked one could say.

Christ you a tough critic. I mean look at who he beat?!

James Deuce

11th July 2007, 09:39

In the long run he'll make as big an impact as Olivier Jacque. He's proven time and time again in 250s that he doesn't have the mental toughness to mount a season long campaign.

k14

11th July 2007, 11:27

Did Edwards do this? ...and was it Bayliss that won at the end of last year?

I'm new to this MotoGP thing tho...
Edwards who? Oh yeah, the guy who's team mate on exactly the same bike has won two world championships whilst Edwards consistently finishes in mid pack (6th or so) with one or two podiums along the way. Bayliss was a bit of an outlier, yeah he won one race but how many others has he won?

In the long run he'll make as big an impact as Olivier Jacque. He's proven time and time again in 250s that he doesn't have the mental toughness to mount a season long campaign.

Oh yeah, sounds like what everyone was saying last year about another australian. Can't quite remember his name though, think he's going ok this year though.

James Deuce

11th July 2007, 11:33

skelstar

11th July 2007, 11:48

Edwards who? Oh yeah, the guy who's team mate on exactly the same bike has won two world championships whilst Edwards consistently finishes in mid pack (6th or so) with one or two podiums along the way.
Still 6th in MotoGP...hes consistently qualifying front-row etc though...gotta be able to make a GP bike go pretty quick eh?

Bayliss was a bit of an outlier, yeah he won one race but how many others has he won?
Like I said, new to this MotoGP lark, how many times has Bayliss raced a MotoGP bike?

k14

11th July 2007, 11:51

Still 6th in MotoGP...hes consistently qualifying front-row etc though...gotta be able to make a GP bike go pretty quick eh?

Like I said, new to this MotoGP lark, how many times has Bayliss raced a MotoGP bike?
Well if you are happy with achieving mediocrity then I guess 6th is a good result.

Bayliss had been in motogp for the previous 3 seasons (you say you're new to this so obviously you didn't know) and had some good races on the duke before he was dumped and went to honda where he did crap. Then he went over to superbike, completly dominated and won championship easily. Came back at end of season with no pressure and won his first motogp race. Still he'd had 3 years prior to that on a gp bike.

k14

11th July 2007, 11:56

Ant West has been around the GP circus a LOT longer than Casey Stoner. He doesn't have "It". He always goes well in the wet, seems to qualify well in the dry and then disappears down the order over the course of a race.

Yeah fair call. He rode a 500 in the 2001 championship although clearly he was out of his depth. I reckon he does have "it" but his attitude hasn't allowed him the scenario where he has the machinery to show his full potential.

If you look at the races he did in supersport it clearly shows how much better he was than everyone else there. Yes, he did have the best bike but he quite easily showed up Sofoglu (who was wiping the floor before West showed up) and won those two races by quite a considerable margin. Normally supersport is very very close racing. With him there you could quite easily see he was a class above the rest.

Its very hard to gauge who is the best in 250 racing. There are only 3 or 4 guys with bikes that can win a championship so impossible to tell how well someone slightly down the field is doing seeing as we don't know how much worse their bike is than the factory bikes.

Also if you look at assen (his first dry motogp race) he qualified way down the order but finished in the top 10. Dicing with Barros quite closely in the end, only a few tenths between them iirc.

skelstar

11th July 2007, 12:07

Well if you are happy with achieving mediocrity then I guess 6th is a good result.
Well last years "champion" is on the same bike as Pedrossa (3rd) and I'm guessing (without checking the table) that Edwards is beating him (actually Ed is 7th, Hayden is 10th)? Like I said, think Edwards has had pole at least once this season (?), guessing Hayden has not, and not even sure Rossi has (can't remember)?

(you say you're new to this so obviously you didn't know)
Yep, I have no clue it seems.

k14

11th July 2007, 12:37

Well last years "champion" is on the same bike as Pedrossa (3rd) and I'm guessing (without checking the table) that Edwards is beating him (actually Ed is 7th, Hayden is 10th)? Like I said, think Edwards has had pole at least once this season (?), guessing Hayden has not, and not even sure Rossi has (can't remember)?
Sorry but I'm failing to follow your argument. Are you saying the edwards is better than everyone else cause he got pole position once this season?

skelstar

11th July 2007, 14:01

Are you saying the edwards is better than everyone else cause he got pole position once this season?
Yeah alright, well done.

slowpoke

11th July 2007, 14:18

Yeah fair call. He rode a 500 in the 2001 championship although clearly he was out of his depth. I reckon he does have "it" but his attitude hasn't allowed him the scenario where he has the machinery to show his full potential.

If you look at the races he did in supersport it clearly shows how much better he was than everyone else there. Yes, he did have the best bike but he quite easily showed up Sofoglu

Ant West has never had a competitive bike in either 250's or 500's.
He's consistently the top rider on a non-factory 250 Aprilia and when he rode the KTM it was brand new and uncompetitive. He raced one season of 500cc at the ripe old age of 19/20 and on a twin or triple, from memory, against the all conquering V4's.
The Ten Kate Honda's have been widely recognised as the best supersport bike for several years (confirmed by independent testers) so many people would disagree that the R6 is the "best bike".
This is his first foray in the big time on a reasonably competitive bike and he's already qualified and finished top ten ahead of the likes of Melandri, Checa, Nakano on a dry track. He had a storming ride at a wet Donnington and but for a trip to the gravel from fifth place (understandable for first ride and patchy conditions) would have easily finished top ten, which he just missed out on after remounting.
Don't forget the guy he's replacing was an ex-250GP world champion and he's already out performed him after just 2 races.
He's already answered any critics, what more can you possibly expect from a newbie? His attitude is fine, he just comes from the wrong side of the world and can't afford to buy a ride.
I'm not saying he's gonna be world champion, I just think he's a very capable rider who deserves the place a lot more than some of the established "stars".

k14

11th July 2007, 14:21

He's already answered any critics, what more can you possibly expect from a newbie? His attitude is fine, he just comes from the wrong side of the world and can't afford to buy a ride.
I'm not saying he's gonna be world champion, I just think he's a very capable rider who deserves the place a lot more than some of the established "stars".
Mate totally agree, although he did get a factory aprilia in 03 or 04 but floundered the opportunity. You're preaching to the converted.

slowpoke

11th July 2007, 14:49

Mate totally agree, although he did get a factory aprilia in 03 or 04 but floundered the opportunity. You're preaching to the converted.

Hey Kirk, you are missing one important fact: there's a spare seat at Yamaha now, get on the blower fella!!!

k14

11th July 2007, 15:30

Hey Kirk, you are missing one important fact: there's a spare seat at Yamaha now, get on the blower fella!!!
Nah that Spanish upstart from the 250's has that. Maybe Ivan could apply? I'm still yet to serve the time on my 125 apprenticeship.

Brian d marge

11th July 2007, 15:36

I heard that ant west was a good development rider, So the kawasakis could be on the move

Everyone I talk to at Honda are saying wait and see, so somethings in the pipe line ( me thinks )

Stephen

k14

11th July 2007, 15:39

I heard that ant west was a good development rider, So the kawasakis could be on the move

Everyone I talk to at Honda are saying wait and see, so somethings in the pipe line ( me thinks )

Stephen
I reckon they've got a good chance this weekend. Might put a few bob on mr kentucky. Be getting good odds and definate outside chance.

Skunk

11th July 2007, 21:02

Kawasaki now (before Hopkins) have a good team with a very experienced Team Manager. I think West can do well, as can Randy - though I'm not sure Randy has the skills to improve the bike like West. Oliver is their test rider still (or again if you like).

I'm wondering where Hopkins is going to. West is on contract till the end of this season only I believe.

cowpoos

11th July 2007, 21:25

. Maybe Ivan could apply? I'm still yet to serve the time on my 125 apprenticeship.

I heard Ivan was taking haydons place at the end of the season...on the HRC bike...

denill

12th July 2007, 08:50

Ant West has been around the GP circus a LOT longer than Casey Stoner. He doesn't have "It". He always goes well in the wet, seems to qualify well in the dry and then disappears down the order over the course of a race.

You would make a tough team boss Jim!

I have some expectations of West and count him out at your peril. May have to remind you of this thread?

denill

12th July 2007, 08:54

Also Jim - West is not on this seasons front running marque. Just one up from the KR.

James Deuce

12th July 2007, 11:38

West took years to convince the 250 teams that he was worthy of a factory ride and when he got arguably the best one out there he screwed it up. Hopper is a better rider than West. His commitment is without question.

denill

12th July 2007, 11:49

My impression was that the 250 KTM had issues and KTM wanted the opportunity to stop racing while they sorted it. As for West's future - time will tell.

But, neither he or Hopper are on any thing as potent as what Stoner has scored.

denill

12th July 2007, 13:18

A bit about West and others - <a href=http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/38374/>HERE:</A>

James Deuce

12th July 2007, 15:06

I was talking about the Factory Aprilia ride he scored, not the KTM.

denill

12th July 2007, 15:19

The Aprillia that he rode this year was a pretty low spec uncompetitive machine.

James Deuce

12th July 2007, 16:59

"Early in the 2007 season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing_season), he rode in the 250cc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_centimetre) World Championship on a semi-factory, LE Aprilia run by Matteoni Racing. A disappointing start to the season saw West unable to match the times he set on the Kiefer Bos bike in 2006, with a best result of ninth after the fourth round of seventeen, leading him to quit the team."

It wasn't a low spec bike, he was getting 1 race old (in terms of development, not usage) factory parts, the sort of deal that has seen Tony Elias and Morco Melandri do very well on.

Anyway, West isn't top flight material. When the going gets really tough he'll fold like he always does, and there'll be a million excuses.

pritch

12th July 2007, 17:15

Hopper going to Kawasaki will be an improvement for both Kawasaki AND Suzuki.

Not entirely original but very funny all the same :yes:

The 800s are too much like 250 GP bikes for someone to come from the motorcycle sport equivalent of a Lay-Z-Boy and succeed.

Yeah, sort of like Troy Bayliss last year:whistle:

Flyno

17th July 2007, 12:56

i hope he thrashes his brother "current world champion"

James Deuce

17th July 2007, 13:08

Yeah, sort of like Troy Bayliss last year:whistle:

That was a 990, arguably more like a Superbike (though only vaguely related and remember Bayliss had 3 years of 990 experience) in character than an 800.

denill

17th July 2007, 15:32

i hope he thrashes his brother "current world champion"

Ya gotta give the Current World Champ credit for his attitude this year.

And his strong ride from the back of the grid in Germany deserves high marks. :yes:

pritch

17th July 2007, 15:48

(though only vaguely related and remember Bayliss had 3 years of 990 experience)

This is damning with faint praise indeed.

The guy competed in just one MotoGP race last year and he totally dominated it. He gave the guys who would claim to be the worlds best the learn.

Motocourse have never previously listed a Superbike rider in their top 10.
Baylis made their list for last year.

Who said Toseland was going to Suzuki? He's hanging out for a ride on the RCV212 and if he can win the Superbike this year title he'll quite possibly get it.

Roll on Brno next weekend.

James Deuce

17th July 2007, 16:10

This is damning with faint praise indeed.

The guy competed in just one MotoGP race last year and he totally dominated it. He gave the guys who would claim to be the worlds best the learn.

It's a shame he didn't do that while he was being paid to do it. Ducati and a Honda satellite team both fired him for being somewhat less than stellar. Remember also that he won a one off race at a track that he'd seen before.

denill

17th July 2007, 16:23

It's a shame he didn't do that while he was being paid to do it. Ducati and a Honda satellite team both fired him for being somewhat less than stellar. Remember also that he won a one off race at a track that he'd seen before.

So what?? Jeez Jim, you're a bloody hard man.

He got pole and went away to win!!

And he beat guys who had also "seen the track before" :yes: Did he not?

James Deuce

17th July 2007, 17:38

And he beat guys who had also "seen the track before" :yes: Did he not?

Very unlikely that anyone who hadn't raced in BSB had seen that track before. Silverstone is not normally on the MotoGP calendar. Yes it was a stellar one off performance.

k14

17th July 2007, 17:47

Very unlikely that anyone who hadn't raced in BSB had seen that track before. Silverstone is not normally on the MotoGP calendar. Yes it was a stellar one off performance.
Huh? Whats silverstone got to do with it? Bayliss won at Valencia...

pritch

17th July 2007, 21:01

Huh? Whats silverstone got to do with it? Bayliss won at Valencia...

And the Brit GP was at Donnington. Jim???

denill

18th July 2007, 07:00

And May 27 WSBK was at Silverstone?

So don't get your point Jim?:gob::gob:

roogazza

18th July 2007, 11:40

I think its gunna be sickies all round this monday ? I feel it coming on now ? ....... 6am start Brno with superbikes and then into Laguna for another tyre shitfight ! Gaz.

pritch

19th July 2007, 22:11

I think its gunna be sickies all round this monday ? I feel it coming on now ? ....... 6am start Brno with superbikes and then into Laguna for another tyre shitfight ! Gaz.

Exactly, 6.00AM until 9.00 Superbikes but then you have to change channel to get the MotoGP starting @9.00. Just the one hour of Moto GP, no supporting races in the USA.

I'm supposed to start work at 8.30. Hmmmmm!